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View Full Version : Officially announcing my support of withdrawing from Iraq NOW !! Rebuild the US !!


Logical
09-01-2005, 10:26 PM
He announced his father, former President George Bush, and former President Bill Clinton, will lead a fund-raising effort in the United States for hurricane relief, as they did for the December 26, 2004, Asian tsunami.
Beautiful lets have fundraisers for the US while we rebuild Iraq with taxpayer money. I think charity plus taxpayer money is what is needed to rebuild the south. I am officially saying it, no more hinting, get our troops to f*ck out of Iraq and back here supporting the rebuilding of the US when we have been crippled.

WoodDraw
09-01-2005, 10:40 PM
It will be interesting to see if there is any type of a political fallout from this. I doubt the media will pick up the NOLA budget being slashed story but if it does hit the mainsteam press then things could get ugly.

memyselfI
09-01-2005, 10:44 PM
Where are Radar Chief and Sybil now? Three days ago they were marking my words and thinking my prediction that Katrina would end DUHbya's war in Iraq was silly.

Jim, welcome to the soon to be new majority in this country. :clap:

Logical
09-01-2005, 10:47 PM
Where are Radar Chief and Sybil now? Three days ago they were marking my words and thinking my prediction that Katrina would end DUHbya's war in Iraq was silly.

Jim, welcome to the soon to be new majority in this country. :clap:I thought you might be right when you said it, I was just so in shock and wanted to see what this administration would do before yelling. Well the answer is clear, they are going to do too little and want to rely on charity while continuing this insanely ran occupation in Iraq.

Continue WOT end Iraq occupation.

Halfcan
09-01-2005, 11:01 PM
Sorry dude, you pull out now osama wins. They will take over Iraq, and turn it into training grounds for suicide bombers. This is a war we can't lose or quit. They will never quit being evil bastards and until you kill every last one of those maniacs, we can't leave.

BigRedChief
09-01-2005, 11:03 PM
It will be interesting to see if there is any type of a political fallout from this. I doubt the media will pick up the NOLA budget being slashed story but if it does hit the mainsteam press then things could get ugly.

They took money out of the budget for the levee's of New orleans in 2004 because of budget restraints caused by the Iraq war

memyselfI
09-01-2005, 11:04 PM
Sorry dude, you pull out now osama wins. They will take over Iraq, and turn it into training grounds for suicide bombers. This is a war we can't lose or quit. They will never quit being evil bastards and until you kill every last one of those maniacs, we can't leave.

We've lost it. Osama doesn't win but DUHbya loses. He lost it the minute he went into Iraq for no apparent reason. We will leave because the American people will not stand for a failing policy sucking their resources when their neighbors need them.

Logical
09-01-2005, 11:43 PM
Sorry dude, you pull out now osama wins. They will take over Iraq, and turn it into training grounds for suicide bombers. This is a war we can't lose or quit. They will never quit being evil bastards and until you kill every last one of those maniacs, we can't leave.ROFl Osama has never been in Iraq and we can stay the cows come home and the day after we leave Al Quaeda can move in. We want to protect against Al Quaeda than abandon Iraq and get serious about hunting them down and killing them. I support that.

KC Jones
09-01-2005, 11:46 PM
Sorry dude, you pull out now osama wins. They will take over Iraq, and turn it into training grounds for suicide bombers. This is a war we can't lose or quit. They will never quit being evil bastards and until you kill every last one of those maniacs, we can't leave.

Osama 'won' when we went into Iraq. The world understood Afghanistan - we we're getting back at Al Queda and taking the fight to them. Then we went into Iraq for totally unrelated reasons and recruiting for Al Queda shot through the roof.

At this point no matter what we do Iraq will likely fall into civil war along ethnic lines. We will have lost most of the international good will we built up over the course of WWII and the cold war. We will have a massive debt, our largest ever defecit, and a even larger and more bureaucratic federal government with fewer individual rights.

It's going to take a long long time to repair the damage this adminstration has caused us.

SBK
09-01-2005, 11:50 PM
Welcome to the "I want the US to lose" thread. Jeesh. Pulling out is the worst possible thing we can do.

Mr. Laz
09-01-2005, 11:54 PM
Sorry dude, you pull out now osama wins.
ROFL

what do you mean he loses?? ... the war is Iraq is making his recruiting job all the much easier and us a bigger target.


osama isn't in Iraq ... he doesn't care if we wipe that the country from the map.


He'll just use that to get more people to hate us and to work for him.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 12:12 AM
Yup, we aren't capable of doing both....that's it. :rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 12:14 AM
Where are Radar Chief and Sybil now? Three days ago they were marking my words and thinking my prediction that Katrina would end DUHbya's war in Iraq was silly.

Jim, welcome to the soon to be new majority in this country. :clap:

Wow. You guys really don't think much of the compassion and ingenuity and resourcefulness of this country, do you? Of course, I shouldn't be surprised. I don't think you and Jim ever really believed in America anyway.

Just watch her go to work, Chicken fuggin' Little. :)

Logical
09-02-2005, 12:19 AM
Yup, we aren't capable of doing both....that's it. :rolleyes:Not economically, no we are not. I have done the analysis before and we were barely able to sustain the debt we were currently incurring plus the addtional 400 to 500 billion more likely over the next few years sustaining and rebuilding Iraq. We cannot afford that plus another 500 billion rebuilding the Southern US (and it will take that much). Our economy will indeed collapse. Try and Europe will be the new world power in a year, two at most.

Logical
09-02-2005, 12:21 AM
Wow. You guys really don't think much of the compassion and ingenuity and resourcefulness of this country, do you? Of course, I shouldn't be surprised. I don't think you and Jim ever really believed in America anyway.

...ROFLROFLROFL

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 12:28 AM
Not economically, no we are not. I have done the analysis before and we were barely able to sustain the debt we were currently incurring plus the addtional 400 to 500 billion more likely over the next few years sustaining and rebuilding Iraq. We cannot afford that plus another 500 billion rebuilding the Southern US (and it will take that much). Our economy will indeed collapse. Try and Europe will be the new world power in a year, two at most.

BS. :BS:

Logical
09-02-2005, 12:39 AM
BS. :BS:Sorry if I trust my MBA based knowledge more than your BS smilie.

the Talking Can
09-02-2005, 12:39 AM
I don't think you and Jim ever really believed in America anyway.


You really are a giant, and ****ing clueless, douche bag.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 12:39 AM
Sorry if I trust my MBA based knowledge more than your BS smilie.

Fugg your MBA; watch and learn. :)

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 12:40 AM
You really are a giant, and ****ing clueless, douche bag.

I love you too. :)

(FWIW, and then we wonder why DC is reduced to 700 posts a week.... :shake: )

Count Alex's Losses
09-02-2005, 12:43 AM
If we don't finish the job in Iraq, when we go back it will be as bad as it was two years ago.

Logical
09-02-2005, 12:44 AM
I love you too. :)

(FWIW, and then we wonder why DC is reduced to 700 posts a week.... :shake: )Yeah I really wonder when you tell me I never have believed in America. That is what makes posting with you a real pleasure.:rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 12:49 AM
Yeah I really wonder when you tell me I never have believed in America. That is what makes posting with you a real pleasure.:rolleyes:

Read you own fuggin' words of late, Jim. I'm no genius, I'll grant you...but you've gone and the Bush-haters have gone over the edge.

You can't keep you eye on the prize (to borrow a phrase); and seem intent on blaming someone and something....for many things that are simply the things of life. Good luck in your misery and despair.

Logical
09-02-2005, 12:53 AM
Read you own fuggin' words of late, Jim. I'm no genius, I'll grant you...but you've gone and the Bush-haters have gone over the edge.

You can't keep you eye on the prize (to borrow a phrase); and seem intent on blaming someone and something....for many things that are simply the things of life. Good luck in your misery and despair.Wow looking at things realistically as I have always done is misery and despair. I have not changed, unless it is to be more optimistic this year. You go ahead and believe fairy dust will fix everything, because it is damned sure the administration is not going to fix anything.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:00 AM
Wow looking at things realistically as I have always done is misery and despair. I have not changed, unless it is to be more optimistic this year. You go ahead and believe fairy dust will fix everything, because it is damned sure the administration is not going to fix anything.

Flashback, 1971:

me: "Why is everyone so sick....?" (mini-flu epidemic in my home town)
my parents: "It's that God Damned Nixon, sending those rockets to the moon, stirrin' up the atmosphere and stuff...."

me: "Why is this winter so cold this year?"
my parents: "God Damned Nixon's fault....I know it is."

me: "Why is bread so expensive now?"
my parents: "Fuggin' Nixon, God Damned bastard has fugged up the economy."

:hmmm:

Today, you, Duhnise and some others here in DC....are nothing more than eloquent and intellectual versions of my HUD-development-welfare-check folks, from back then.

Boyceofsummer
09-02-2005, 01:01 AM
Welcome to the "I want the US to lose" thread. Jeesh. Pulling out is the worst possible thing we can do.

pull out of New Orleans.

Logical
09-02-2005, 01:03 AM
...

Today, you, Duhnise and spme others here in DC....are nothing more than eloquent and intellectual versions of my folks back then.

Well thank God we are eloguent and intellectual, instead of being dirtbag dumbasses. Glad you think so well of your parents.

Stinger
09-02-2005, 01:06 AM
Wow looking at things realistically as I have always done is misery and despair. I have not changed, unless it is to be more optimistic this year.

You look at thing realistically but to who's realism? Yours, mine, Mimi's, Kotter's etc? You might want to say you look at things at your point of view because what I have read for a while is not realism its opinion.

Just wondering if durring WW2 you had this same feeling of doom and gloom? How in the world did our country fight on 2 fronts and still make it here at home? I would say some on this board would have been wrong back then as well as they are now.

And this is my own realistic view.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:06 AM
Well thank God we are eloguent and intellectual, instead of being dirtbag dumbasses. Glad you think so well of your parents.

I'm a realist.....they were/are white trash trailer-park rednecks that dropped out of school before they finished 8th grade.

They did the best with what they had; which is more than you can say about a lot of folks who started out at higher stations in life. I'm not ashamed at all. Just realistic.

Logical
09-02-2005, 01:12 AM
You look at thing realistically but to who's realism? Yours, mine, Mimi's, Kotter's etc? You might want to say you look at things at your point of view because what I have read for a while is not realism its opinion.

Just wondering if durring WW2 you had this same feeling of doom and gloom? How in the world did our country fight on 2 fronts and still make it here at home? I would say some on this board would have been wrong back then as well as they are now.

And this is my own realistic view. We fought on two fronts because we allocated 90% of the able bodied men between 16 and 45 to the war effort. Full on commitment, not some part time dumbass, half ass effort like is going on by this administration in Iraq. We were able because the people believed in the cause unlike this effort now that has clearly turned into profiteering by Haliburton and a few select others and is not at all about the WOT because you would have to be blind to see there are now more terrorists in that region than were as of 9/11.

I lost all faith in this effort when we started enlisting the support of terrorists like Al Sadr to improve our chances.

Boyceofsummer
09-02-2005, 01:14 AM
We fought on two fronts because we allocated 90% of the able bodied men between 16 and 45 to the war effort. Full on commitment, not some part time dumbass, half ass effort like is going on by this administration in Iraq. We were able because the people believed in the cause unlike this effort now that has clearly turned into profiteering by Haliburton and a few select others and is not at all about the WOT because you would have to be blind to see there are now more terrorists in that region than were as of 9/11.

I lost all faith in this effort when we started enlisting the support of terrorists like Al Sadr to improve our chances.

I think you just got 'Bitchslapped'

Pitt Gorilla
09-02-2005, 01:16 AM
I'm a realist.....they were/are white trash trailer-park rednecks that dropped out of school before they finished 8th grade.

They did the best with what they had; which is more than you can say about a lot of folks who started out at higher stations in life. I'm not ashamed at all. Just realistic.If anyone here is a realist, it would seem to be Log. He doesn't care to play the party games that so many on here seem determined to play. He doesn't defend a position just because his "team" does. He thinks through issues and forms an opinion. You could learn a thing or two from him.

Halfcan
09-02-2005, 01:17 AM
No apparent reason for Iraq. I have to respectfully disagree. Saddam Hussein was reason enough. The less of those f#ckers in the world the better. We messed up in two big ways in Iraq-one declaring the war was over, when in fact we should have kept on going into Syria and Iran.

Second-not starting recruiting and training of the Iraqi army sooner. We didn't put enough men in there to secure the country and let the leader of the resistence to march free because we didn't want to bomb a mosque. They have been too worried about being politically correct instead of treating it like a war. I hate Bush too, but he will never pull out.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:17 AM
We fought on two fronts because we allocated 90% of the able bodied men between 16 and 45 to the war effort. Full on commitment, not some part time dumbass, half ass effort like is going on by this administration in Iraq. We were able because the people believed in the cause unlike this effort now that has clearly turned into profiteering by Haliburton and a few select others and is not at all about the WOT because you would have to be blind to see there are now more terrorists in that region than were as of 9/11.

I lost all faith in this effort when we started enlisting the support of terrorists like Al Sadr to improve our chances.

Links? :shrug:

Or is this just more speculation/hyperbole/talking outta your ass? :hmmm:

WoodDraw
09-02-2005, 01:19 AM
Links? :shrug:

Or is this just more speculation/hyperbole/talking outta your ass? :hmmm:

Nice arguement.

"Errr..uhhh...you didn't name your sources!"

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:20 AM
If anyone here is a realist, it would seem to be Log. He doesn't care to play the party games that so many on here seem determined to play. He doesn't defend a position just because his "team" does. He thinks through issues and forms an opinion. You could learn a thing or two from him.

He's a shit-stirrer; plain and simple. Right now, the shit-stirring is to take the "Bush sucks" mantra.....it has nothing to do with partisan politics. He lives for it.

And it's his tactics, along with Duhnise, and the Bush-bashers, which is turning this place into a ghost town.

Pitt Gorilla
09-02-2005, 01:21 AM
I'm pretty sure Kotter is going to reserve judgment until after the war is over and NO has been rebuilt to say whether or not it is possible. Everything else is purely speculation and blah, blah, blah... :)

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:21 AM
Nice arguement.

"Errr..uhhh...you didn't name your sources!"

Sorry. It's the academic side of me....rather than accepting opinions and hyperbole, I'd like some evidence and facts to support specious claims.

Silly me? :)

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:22 AM
I'm pretty sure Kotter is going to reserve judgment until after the war is over and NO has been rebuilt to say whether or not it is possible. Everything else is purely speculation and blah, blah, blah... :)

I will; but I believe. :)

WoodDraw
09-02-2005, 01:25 AM
Sorry. It's the academic side of me....rather than accepting opinions and hyperbole, I'd like some evidence and facts to support specious claims.

Silly me? :)

Doesn't it go without saying that most things posted on a message board, in a debate forum no less, are going to be opinions? If you don't agree with them, refute them.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:27 AM
Doesn't it go without saying that most things posted on a message board, in a debate forum no less, are going to be opinions? If you don't agree with them, refute them.

He made claims. Is it really asking too much for him to cite evidence of his claims?

go bowe
09-02-2005, 01:31 AM
He's a shit-stirrer; plain and simple. Right now, the shit-stirring is to take the "Bush sucks" mantra.....it has nothing to do with partisan politics. He lives for it.

And it's his tactics, along with Duhnise, and the Bush-bashers, which is turning this place into a ghost town.now what?

you've gone from multiple personality disorder to delusions that you're a ghost?

in case you didn't notice, i ain't no friggen' ghost...

yet... :p :p :p

Halfcan
09-02-2005, 01:31 AM
part time dumb asses-nice. Those guys are dying for their country not sitting on a computer bitching.

go bowe
09-02-2005, 01:36 AM
Sorry. It's the academic side of me....rather than accepting opinions and hyperbole, I'd like some evidence and facts to support specious claims.

Silly me? :)good heavens, man...

if a claim is specious, there isn't any evidence or facts to support it...

by definition, right? :shrug:

sometimes you tickle me to death...

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:36 AM
now what?

you've gone from multiple personality disorder to delusions that you're a ghost?

in case you didn't notice, i ain't no friggen' ghost...

yet... :p :p :p

Sorry, I confused what is.....with what is about to be....

700 posts last week; it would make JD proud, heh.....but says a lot about where this place is headed....sadly,. :shake:

WoodDraw
09-02-2005, 01:37 AM
He made claims. Is it really asking too much for him to cite evidence of his claims?

Would you believe the evidence even if he did cite it? Your mind has already been made up and posting a few links to news articles isn't going to change that so why waste the time? Your "need evidence" routine and academia card that you love to pull is just your way of side stepping arguements.

If more people would address topics like Vlad does, regardless of their position, then this forum wouldn't be so empty. It is people like you who offer nothing to the actual thread except snide remarks and rolling smilies that make most of the DC threads so unreadable.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:39 AM
good heavens, man...

if a claim is specious, there isn't any evidence or facts to support it...

by definition, right? :shrug:

sometimes you tickle me to death...


One entry found for specious.


Main Entry: spe·cious
Pronunciation: 'spE-sh&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, visually pleasing, from Latin speciosus beautiful, plausible, from species
1 obsolete : SHOWY
2 : having deceptive attraction or allure
3 : having a false look of truth or genuineness : SOPHISTIC

I was going for definition 1 or 2, givin' 'em the benefit of the doubt, heh.

I was hoping for evidence to ameliorate my doubts. I'm still waiting, you'll notice. :)

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:42 AM
Would you believe the evidence even if he did cite it? Your mind has already been made up and posting a few links to news articles isn't going to change that so why waste the time? Your "need evidence" routine and academia card that you love to pull is just your way of side stepping arguements.

If more people would address topics like Vlad does, regardless of their position, then this forum wouldn't be so empty. It is people like you who offer nothing to the actual thread except snide remarks and rolling smilies that make most of the DC threads so unreadable.

If you prefer opinions and hyperbole to reasoned argumentation and evidence....be my guest.

go bowe
09-02-2005, 01:45 AM
Sorry, I confused what is.....with what is about to be....

700 posts last week; it would make JD proud, heh.....but says a lot about where this place is headed....sadly,. :shake:who had 700 posts last week?

and what exactly is it that would make *censored initials of supreme asshole* proud?

i don't think this place is headed anywhere, sadly...

you just don't like all the new lefties that are not afraid to speak out...

the right wing domination of this forum has (temporarily?) decreased...

is that why you think it's becoming a ghost town?

i miss henry, too...

Ugly Duck
09-02-2005, 01:47 AM
Vlad is the dude. Civil war in Iraq is inevitable when we leave. Lets make it sooner rather than later.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 01:52 AM
who had 700 posts last week?

and what exactly is it that would make *censored initials of supreme asshole* proud?

i don't think this place is headed anywhere, sadly...

you just don't like all the new lefties that are not afraid to speak out...

the right wing domination of this forum has (temporarily?) decreased...

is that why you think it's becoming a ghost town?

i miss henry, too...

700 posts for the entire FORUM last week.....not "who"; that would be a good week for JD

You are entitled to your opinion; but even Phil has created a view that eliminates this place from the console....

I miss Henry, and some others too; even some lefties who no longer frequent the place often, but were reasonable and rooted in reality not emotion. But, hey, that's me.

Enjoy.

go bowe
09-02-2005, 01:58 AM
I was going for definition 1 or 2, givin' 'em the benefit of the doubt, heh.

I was hoping for evidence to ameliorate my doubts. I'm still waiting, you'll notice. :)you always seem to have a lot of trouble when you start posting definitions of words... ROFL ROFL ROFL

btw, definition #1 is clearly labelled obsolete...

and in the context of your statement, a specious claim is one that is not supportable by facts and evidence (because it's specious)...

and just which doubt do you want ameliorated (do your students understand these terms you throw around?)?

that our effort in wwII was a total commitment?

that our effort in iraq has been somewhat half-assed (in terms of post conflict planning and resources that should have been committted to avoid the most obvious post-war problems such as the civil disorder/looting/ongoing security problems)?

that we have spent a ton of money in iraq (and are committed to spending a ton more before we leave)?

that some or all of that money could have been used to finish the levee and flood control measures which had been started but were unfiinished because of cuts to the corps of engineers budget for new orleans?

i guess i don't see where the specious claims are...

these things look pretty self-evident to me...

honestly... :shrug:

Logical
09-02-2005, 01:58 AM
Links? :shrug:

Or is this just more speculation/hyperbole/talking outta your ass? :hmmm:Which part

Lags in cantonment construction forced the War Department to slow enlistments and delayed the federalization of the National Guard. Just after Pearl Harbor, Congress amended the draft law, lengthening the term of service from one year to the duration plus six months and extending registration to all males between 18 and 65, with those between 20 and 45 eligible for the draft. All the while, final goals for recruitment became interim goals. By the end of 1942, the Army's strength was at 5.4 million, including 700,000 black Americans, most of whom served in segregated support units. (that was just the Army in 42 nothing close to all service personel for the entire war.
http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/documents/mobpam.htm

Though the draft was limited to 18 by congress, people as young as 16 were allowed to enlist.

If you don't know the US is using Al Sadr then you are just ignoring the news.

go bowe
09-02-2005, 02:00 AM
700 posts for the entire FORUM last week.....not "who"; that would be a good week for JD

You are entitled to your opinion; but even Phil has created a view that eliminates this place from the console....

I miss Henry, and some others too; even some lefties who no longer frequent the place often, but were reasonable and rooted in reality not emotion. But, hey, that's me.

Enjoy.ok, work with me here...

what "view that eliminates this place" from what "console"?

jAZ
09-02-2005, 02:01 AM
I thought you might be right when you said it, I was just so in shock and wanted to see what this administration would do before yelling.
The one thing that is clear with this administration is that they live in the extreme of their ideals.

They've campaigned so hard against governement and for war in Iraq that they seem to have abandoned reason so that they can stick to their ideological goals, both abroad and at home.

If what you are saying is true (that they are doing too little and relying on charity to do more)... I'm deeply concerned about letting this administration continue to hold office.

They can't seem to do anything right... ever.

Except campaign... they have that down cold thanks for Karl Rove.

Logical
09-02-2005, 02:03 AM
part time dumb asses-nice. Those guys are dying for their country not sitting on a computer bitching.I was talking about the admininistration not the troops.:shake:

go bowe
09-02-2005, 02:03 AM
* * *

If you don't know the US is using Al Sadr then you are just ignoring the news.arrrghh!!

specious claim!!

hyperbole!!

unfounded opinion!!

we are not using al sadder, he is using us...

so there! :p :p :p

go bowe
09-02-2005, 02:06 AM
... I'm deeply concerned about letting this administration continue to hold office.
* * *what do you have in mind?

seeing as how this administration isn't due to be replaced until 2008, or is it 2009?

Logical
09-02-2005, 02:10 AM
You have a point. arrrghh!!

specious claim!!

hyperbole!!

unfounded opinion!!

we are not using al sadder, he is using us...

so there! :p :p :pROFLROFLROFL

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 02:15 AM
.....btw, definition #1 is clearly labelled obsolete...

SHOWY? Jim is nothing, if not "showy"....and obsolete, for that matter; Bush-bashing, passed off as intellectual debate, is....well...obsolete.

that our effort in wwII was a total commitment?

that our effort in iraq has been somewhat half-assed (in terms of post conflict planning and resources that should have been committted to avoid the most obvious post-war problems such as the civil disorder/looting/ongoing security problems)?

that we have spent a ton of money in iraq (and are committed to spending a ton more before we leave)?

Sorry, I guess the money we spent on the Marshall Plan.....could not have been lessened by more "judicious" decisions during the fighting in Europe in 1944 and 1945, eh? Yeah, it's amazing that hindsight is 20/20.

FWIW, I was actually referring more to his %, as he figured out....and has answered; although, his numbers don't jive with the numbers I've seen.

that some or all of that money could have been used to finish the levee and flood control measures which had been started but were unfiinished because of cuts to the corps of engineers budget for new orleans?

It's clear those cuts were solely a consequence of spending for the war in Iraq/the WOT....right? Interesting.

i guess i don't see where the specious claims are...

these things look pretty self-evident to me...

honestly... :shrug:

Self-evident depends on one's predispostion and perspective, I'd suppose.

Regardless, enjoy.

I am done. Good night, all.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 02:20 AM
ok, work with me here...

what "view that eliminates this place" from what "console"?

Can't remember the thread....maybe cochise's: Phil mentioned an alternative view he's worked up, for those wishing to disregard DC entirely....

Here it is; he calls it a "special group":

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2644539&postcount=76

jAZ
09-02-2005, 02:20 AM
what do you have in mind?

seeing as how this administration isn't due to be replaced until 2008, or is it 2009?
Citizen revolt? Recall election? Maybe you could stop by the WH and ask for the keys to the country?

Seriously.

It's gotten to the point where this country is being lead from one disasterous even to another. And each step along the path people seem to think stopping the scourage of "gay marriage" is vastly more critical in a leader than say... competence or *dare-I-ask*... leadership???

Clinton had his issues when it came to keeping his ding-a-ling in his pants... but he never, ever, ever (!) looked this totally incompetent.

I've only recently started reading/learning about the issues that underlie the failure to prepare, respond and mitigate this totally predictable natural disaster.

The more I learn, the more I think it's actually an urgent matter of national security that we find a way to replace this entire administration and pronto.

Seriously... I'll buy you a 1-way ticket to DC if you promise to just sneak into Bush's toy box and steal the keys to the country.

Logical
09-02-2005, 02:30 AM
Perhaps people just don't know how to create topics that generate interest. I have over 60 response in 4 past prime time (for the BB) hours. That would equate to easily 1200 during a week for similar threads.

NYChief generated over 70 in 8 hours.

It is the week before football season traffic should drop on a football BB.

Not to mention you and a few others created a thread that drew over 800 responses that ended up belonging in this forum.

BigMeatballDave
09-02-2005, 02:55 AM
Sorry dude, you pull out now osama wins. They will take over Iraq, and turn it into training grounds for suicide bombers. This is a war we can't lose or quit. They will never quit being evil bastards and until you kill every last one of those maniacs, we can't leave.I don't like the idea of cutting and running, no one does. We have a crisis in THIS country, now. I'd like to see a significant number of troops pulled from Iraq, and placed in New Orleans, et al, to help with clean-up, etc...

BigMeatballDave
09-02-2005, 03:04 AM
He lost it the minute he went into Iraq for no apparent reason. Removing Saddam was good enough for me...

BigMeatballDave
09-02-2005, 03:08 AM
Civil war in Iraq is inevitable when we leave. I can't disagree. Even this great country of ours had one...

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 06:24 AM
Flashback, 1971:

Today, you, Duhnise and some others here in DC....are nothing more than eloquent and intellectual versions of my HUD-development-welfare-check folks, from back then.

God help you and your ilk if it's ever you in need of food, water, and housing due to no fault of your own...

:shake:

Chief Henry
09-02-2005, 09:49 AM
They took money out of the budget for the levee's of New orleans in 2004 because of budget restraints caused by the Iraq war



BS, THose levee's should have been IMPROVED DECADES AGO :rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 09:53 AM
God help you and your ilk if it's ever you in need of food, water, and housing due to no fault of your own...

:shake:

I certainly wouldn't be above needing a hand-out or an assist, in times of need; I just refuse to accept it as a lifestyle.

That's a distinction you seem to be missing.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 09:54 AM
God help you and your ilk if it's ever you in need of food, water, and housing due to no fault of your own...

:shake:

I certainly wouldn't be above taking a hand-out or an assist, in times of need--and I'd be grateful for it; I just refuse to accept it as a lifestyle.

That's a distinction you seem to be missing.

StcChief
09-02-2005, 09:55 AM
The rebuilding will be done thru Construction not troops.

Don't need troops swinging hammers, pouring concrete.

MOhillbilly
09-02-2005, 09:59 AM
Beautiful lets have fundraisers for the US while we rebuild Iraq with taxpayer money. I think charity plus taxpayer money is what is needed to rebuild the south. I am officially saying it, no more hinting, get our troops to f*ck out of Iraq and back here supporting the rebuilding of the US when we have been crippled.


you are now a member of the paniced herd of sheeple.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 10:35 AM
The rebuilding will be done thru Construction not troops.

Don't need troops swinging hammers, pouring concrete.

Limousine liberals, and country club Republicans, are above that....so they need troops to do their dirty work. Their children are too busy at Ivy League luncheons, frat hazings, and "tea" with Barbara Streisand to destroy their manicures with such tedious and disgusting labor. Besides, they have a 10 am "tee time" at the club, and Junior has a piano recitel at 7 pm.

The conscientious ones donate some $$$ to the "little" people, though.

:)

Calcountry
09-02-2005, 11:53 AM
Beautiful lets have fundraisers for the US while we rebuild Iraq with taxpayer money. I think charity plus taxpayer money is what is needed to rebuild the south. I am officially saying it, no more hinting, get our troops to f*ck out of Iraq and back here supporting the rebuilding of the US when we have been crippled.Let the Iraqi's go to civil war if they must, but any foreign power must stay out. Let them take care of their own country now. They have had long enough to get their chit together. I am afraid, that I must concur with troop reductions and the eventual withdrawl within 12 months now.

MOhillbilly
09-02-2005, 11:58 AM
Let the Iraqi's go to civil war if they must, but any foreign power must stay out. Let them take care of their own country now. They have had long enough to get their chit together. I am afraid, that I must concur with troop reductions and the eventual withdrawl within 12 months now.

Thats crazy talk. There are other solutions other than running home.

BIG_DADDY
09-02-2005, 11:58 AM
It's a moot point as we will have troops in the ME long after I leave this world. We need to be in control of oil flow on that continent when WWIII hits in order to be able to win. The greatest weapons in the world are only going to work if you can fuel them.

MOhillbilly
09-02-2005, 12:44 PM
It's a moot point as we will have troops in the ME long after I leave this world. We need to be in control of oil flow on that continent when WWIII hits in order to be able to win. The greatest weapons in the world are only going to work if you can fuel them.

nationalist- why is it such a dirty word for so many?
Political lines be damned.
The Republic is all that matters.

Calcountry
09-02-2005, 01:40 PM
Thats crazy talk. There are other solutions other than running home.Lets hear em.

How did you like my sarcasm?

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 01:41 PM
I certainly wouldn't be above taking a hand-out or an assist, in times of need--and I'd be grateful for it; I just refuse to accept it as a lifestyle.

That's a distinction you seem to be missing.

And what evidence that you have that these people affected by this hurricane are doing this as a 'lifestyle?' It's only been FOUR FREAKIN DAYS. :cuss:

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 01:46 PM
And what evidence that you have that these people affected by this hurricane are doing this as a 'lifestyle?' It's only been FOUR FREAKIN DAYS. :cuss:


First of all anyone wth a skill can simply move to another area and start working. It's obvious the ones sitting around waiting to be helped can't help themselves. They've been given everything they have from the government and when it's time to think or provide for themselves on their own, they panic and riot until uncle sam helps them again.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 01:49 PM
First of all anyone wth a skill can simply move to another area and start working. It's obvious the ones sitting around waiting to be helped can't help themselves. They've been given everything they have from the government and when it's time to think or provide for themselves on their own, they panic and riot until uncle sam helps them again.

Really? Many of these people don't have driver's licenses or homes. You do realize that many (if not most) employers now do background checks. In order to do a background check you need a home residence. In order to replace your driver's license if lost, you need a residence. Many don't have their ATM cards. In order to get a replacement you need proof of ID. ID they can't get because they can't prove their identity. They'll need ID to rent property or get a loan. They can't provide proof of ID because they don't have ID.

Come talk to me when you pull your head out of your ass...

BIG_DADDY
09-02-2005, 01:50 PM
nationalist- why is it such a dirty word for so many?
Political lines be damned.
The Republic is all that matters.

Funny thing is the massive majority just don't get what's going on at all. It's not like the president can just come out and say we need this strategic supply of oil for when the shit hits the fan and it will also help us out financially in the long term. The average American has just become far to femanized to just come out and say something like that. This also wouldn't be a real wise thing to come out and say from an International standpoint as well although all the players involved know what's really going on. WWIII is inevitable at some point and controlling the flow of oil on that continent is beyond MAJOR.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 02:41 PM
Really? Many of these people don't have driver's licenses or homes. You do realize that many (if not most) employers now do background checks. In order to do a background check you need a home residence. In order to replace your driver's license if lost, you need a residence. Many don't have their ATM cards. In order to get a replacement you need proof of ID. ID they can't get because they can't prove their identity. They'll need ID to rent property or get a loan. They can't provide proof of ID because they don't have ID.

Come talk to me when you pull your head out of your ass...

If they had ATM cards and driver licenses then they should have evacuated the city when they were told to do so.

Your reply is bullshit and you know it.

Mr. Kotter
09-02-2005, 02:45 PM
And what evidence that you have that these people affected by this hurricane are doing this as a 'lifestyle?' It's only been FOUR FREAKIN DAYS. :cuss:

WTF are you talkin' about?.....I was talkin' about my PARENTS; and the situation I grew up in, and that much of my family remains it. Go back and read the context.

I was sayin' you and Jim sound like a more eloquent and educated version of them, and their "it (everything) is the President's fault." And I was referencing THEIR (and most of their neighbors) taking on entitlements as a way of life, rather than a assist in times of need. ROFL

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 02:47 PM
If they had ATM cards and driver licenses then they should have evacuated the city when they were told to do so.

Your reply is bullshit and you know it.

They might have drivers license and no car or an ATM card and no money. The government might have tried to send buses BEFORE the disaster struck...it might have been an easier and more efficient way of moving people.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 02:53 PM
They might have drivers license and no car or an ATM card and no money. The government might have tried to send buses BEFORE the disaster struck...it might have been an easier and more efficient way of moving people.


You'll have to pardon me if I fail to feel sorry for people who have never lifted a finger in their life to help themselves. If they spent the same amount of energy being productive citizens as they do holding their hands out, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Hell, everyone of them will get a brand new apartment or house to ruin.

Boyceofsummer
09-02-2005, 03:25 PM
You'll have to pardon me if I fail to feel sorry for people who have never lifted a finger in their life to help themselves. If they spent the same amount of energy being productive citizens as they do holding their hands out, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Hell, everyone of them will get a brand new apartment or house to ruin.

There are foreign national stranded in hotels and motels all over the city. The scope of this situation transcends personal economic stature. What about the people that did get out and now have nothing to return to. I know, I know..........screw em all.

MOhillbilly
09-02-2005, 03:42 PM
Funny thing is the massive majority just don't get what's going on at all. It's not like the president can just come out and say we need this strategic supply of oil for when the shit hits the fan and it will also help us out financially in the long term. The average American has just become far to femanized to just come out and say something like that. This also wouldn't be a real wise thing to come out and say from an International standpoint as well although all the players involved know what's really going on. WWIII is inevitable at some point and controlling the flow of oil on that continent is beyond MAJOR.


Shit i hear that 100%. Now were gonna pay as a whole,for the misguided reasoning and inept tacts of a few.

MOhillbilly
09-02-2005, 03:43 PM
You'll have to pardon me if I fail to feel sorry for people who have never lifted a finger in their life to help themselves. If they spent the same amount of energy being productive citizens as they do holding their hands out, they wouldn't be in this situation.

Hell, everyone of them will get a brand new apartment or house to ruin.

Someones gotta be on the bottom.

Logical
09-02-2005, 04:37 PM
Funny thing is the massive majority just don't get what's going on at all. It's not like the president can just come out and say we need this strategic supply of oil for when the shit hits the fan and it will also help us out financially in the long term. The average American has just become far to femanized to just come out and say something like that. This also wouldn't be a real wise thing to come out and say from an International standpoint as well although all the players involved know what's really going on. WWIII is inevitable at some point and controlling the flow of oil on that continent is beyond MAJOR.
Actually he could and I would bet big money he would have more support if he did so. This constant lying about nation building a draft constitution the world should be proud of, puhleeeze spare me the sanctimonious stupid bullshit that insults my intelligence. Be upfront, grow some f*cking balls, you might regain my support. As it is you owe America to withdraw from Iraq to rebuild our nation before you go wasting more billions on that shithole for the obviously fake reasons you as the President are bullshitting the people with to stay there. Hell you can leave a moderate 10K force and some heavy duty weapons to help if you want but get those men and women on planes to our disaster area and get the healing of OUR country as the top priority.

Chief Henry
09-02-2005, 05:10 PM
They might have drivers license and no car or an ATM card and no money. The government might have tried to send buses BEFORE the disaster struck...it might have been an easier and more efficient way of moving people.



Hey Skank, Mayor Nagins had the PERFECT set up to move the
poooooooooooooor. He should have made a mandatory proclamation
to use all N'ahlens METRO Buses to drive around town and pick up the
sick and the poor. He and the city officials had the power and the
the logistics to help the poor leave the town. Now Nagins is bitching and hollerin. The city metro buses were right fricken in front of him.
Nagins is sure quick on his feet when it comes to helping his poooooor
people in his home town. And you say its President Bush's fault...

Come talk to me when you get :cuss: clue, skank.

I wish I could stick around a rub sand in your pie crust but I'm off to go
announce a High School football game.

Logical
09-02-2005, 10:17 PM
Hey Skank, Mayor Nagins had the PERFECT set up to move the
poooooooooooooor. He should have made a mandatory proclamation
to use all N'ahlens METRO Buses to drive around town and pick up the
sick and the poor. He and the city officials had the power and the
the logistics to help the poor leave the town. Now Nagins is bitching and hollerin. The city metro buses were right fricken in front of him.
Nagins is sure quick on his feet when it comes to helping his poooooor
people in his home town. And you say its President Bush's fault...

Come talk to me when you get :cuss: clue, skank.

I wish I could stick around a rub sand in your pie crust but I'm off to go
announce a High School football game.So if a Mayor does not do something in a National disaster that relieves the President of all responsibility. That is about the worst nonsense I have ever read that you have posted.

go bowe
09-03-2005, 06:43 PM
* * *Quote: <HR SIZE=1>Originally Posted by go bo
that some or all of that money could have been used to finish the levee and flood control measures which had been started but were unfiinished because of cuts to the corps of engineers budget for new orleans? <HR SIZE=1>It's clear those cuts were solely a consequence of spending for the war in Iraq/the WOT....right? Interesting.
* * *what i said was some of that money could have been used...

i didn't say anything about why the cuts were made, just that they were made...

actually, imo, the cuts were probably made more on ideological grounds rather than because of budgetary constraints...

imo, the iraq war probably had little, if anything to do with why these specific cuts were made (the corps of engineers' budgets for several major projects had been getting cut for several years, as i understand it; new orleans was not singled out)...

it's just that when i think of the big numbers that will be required to "fix" the problem and deal with the disaster's aftermath, the hundreds of billions that we've spent in iraq comes to mind...

we're gonna need that kind of money for the gulf coast...

Logical
09-03-2005, 08:52 PM
what i said was some of that money could have been used...

i didn't say anything about why the cuts were made, just that they were made...

actually, imo, the cuts were probably made more on ideological grounds rather than because of budgetary constraints...

imo, the iraq war probably had little, if anything to do with why these specific cuts were made (the corps of engineers' budgets for several major projects had been getting cut for several years, as i understand it; new orleans was not singled out)...

it's just that when i think of the big numbers that will be required to "fix" the problem and deal with the disaster's aftermath, the hundreds of billions that we've spent in iraq comes to mind...

we're gonna need that kind of money for the gulf coast...:clap::clap::clap:

craneref
09-04-2005, 11:33 PM
So if a Mayor does not do something in a National disaster that relieves the President of all responsibility. That is about the worst nonsense I have ever read that you have posted.

I don't believe that is the point that is being made, you can't be guilty of sitting on your hads when you could have made a difference and then point the fingers at others. The Mayor, The Governor and the Federal Government can all share blame, however, lets see where the real responsibiolity lies. First their should have been a contingency plan for New Orleans, I mean it didn't sink under sea level in these last few years since President Bush has been in office did it, they worried about this scenario with EVERY hurricane that came that way for over 200 years, even the engineers told the French NOT to build there. Secondly, shy didn't the Mayor preposition supplies at the Superdome if he was going to use it for a shelter, he didn't even tell the state or FEMA that he was going to do that. Secondly, the state shoud have had a contingency plan, but how quick to blame the Federal Government. Thirdly, FEMA should have realized it was dealing with IDIOTS at the local Government level beforehand and started preparing for the worse. But to blame the President is ludicrous and to call him a racisit because you don't think the Federal government is moving fast enough is ignorant. Obviously, no one who is spewing this racist hate has ever seen the length of time it takes the Federal government to do ANYTHING. Check out response times for any LARGE natural disaster and see how long it takes the Federal Government to act, no matter which party owns the White House. President Clinton even said that Flood control was the local governments responsibility. New Orleans came up with the money and time to redo the Superdome, build a new baskeball stadium and various other betterment of life projects, yet couldn't come up with any money to work on the levies. The levies that the funding was asked for didn't even break, it was ones that had been updated to withstand the hurricanes, so double all the money they ask for wouldn't have helped here. I would NEVER accuse a President (Even one I don't respect) of allowing people to die or suffer because of the color of their skin, little loen enjoy it like some in the Liberal media have said. Anyone who believes that and spreads that kind of racist hatred should be ashamed of themselves. There have been many problems with the relief effort, and plenty who share responsibility, but to blame it on racism is just PLAIN WRONG. God Bless the USA.

Logical
09-04-2005, 11:36 PM
I don't believe that is the point that is being made, you can't be guilty of sitting on your hads when you could have made a difference and then point the fingers at others. The Mayor, The Governor and the Federal Government can all share blame, however, lets see where the real responsibiolity lies. First their should have been a contingency plan for New Orleans, I mean it didn't sink under sea level in these last few years since President Bush has been in office did it, they worried about this scenario with EVERY hurricane that came that way for over 200 years, even the engineers told the French NOT to build there. Secondly, shy didn't the Mayor preposition supplies at the Superdome if he was going to use it for a shelter, he didn't even tell the state or FEMA that he was going to do that. Secondly, the state shoud have had a contingency plan, but how quick to blame the Federal Government. Thirdly, FEMA should have realized it was dealing with IDIOTS at the local Government level beforehand and started preparing for the worse. But to blame the President is ludicrous and to call him a racisit because you don't think the Federal government is moving fast enough is ignorant. Obviously, no one who is spewing this racist hate has ever seen the length of time it takes the Federal government to do ANYTHING. Check out response times for any LARGE natural disaster and see how long it takes the Federal Government to act, no matter which party owns the White House. President Clinton even said that Flood control was the local governments responsibility. New Orleans came up with the money and time to redo the Superdome, build a new baskeball stadium and various other betterment of life projects, yet couldn't come up with any money to work on the levies. The levies that the funding was asked for didn't even break, it was ones that had been updated to withstand the hurricanes, so double all the money they ask for wouldn't have helped here. I would NEVER accuse a President (Even one I don't respect) of allowing people to die or suffer because of the color of their skin, little loen enjoy it like some in the Liberal media have said. Anyone who believes that and spreads that kind of racist hatred should be ashamed of themselves. There have been many problems with the relief effort, and plenty who share responsibility, but to blame it on racism is just PLAIN WRONG. God Bless the USA.I have accused the President of many things but not of racism. In another thread I accused the press of racism. I think you may be confused.

craneref
09-04-2005, 11:42 PM
I have accused the President of many things but not of racism. In another thread I accused the press of racism. I think you may be confused.

Sorry if it sounded like I accused you of that, totally not meant to be that way. I was answering several things from the thread in its entirity, and picked up on some of that in the other responses. I hope this clears up any misunderstanding that I accused you personally of calling the President racist, because I found nothing to imply that in any of your posts. And I agree with you that the press tends to be racist, they portray only one race as the ones affected by this disaster. Once again please accept any apologies for the any statements of mine that were not clear.

Logical
07-30-2006, 11:38 PM
So given the present futher erosion of order in the Middle East how many of you would now agree that I was right in supporting leaving Iraq and concentrating on rebuilding NO?

BucEyedPea
07-31-2006, 10:29 PM
I wasn't here but on Nawlin's:
Dunno if all of it should be rebuilt...I mean a below sea-level city that's been mostly drained swamp and is sinking still? Too much is on it.

It's kinda like beggin for a repeat imo!

The old city is still safe as that's the high area.