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BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 12:01 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index.html
Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'
(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.
The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:
NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09)
You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.
And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.
WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?
NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."
Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.
And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.
They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.
WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?
NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.
I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."
That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.
I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.
It's awful down here, man.
WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?
NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.
We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.
You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."
WWL: Who'd you say that to?
NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.
And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives.
And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people.
In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there.
So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.
WWL: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?
NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.
Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.
I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.
WWL: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?
NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.
WWL: Did the governor do that, too?
NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.
But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.
I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.
And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.
Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.
And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.
You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.
And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.
WWL: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.
NAGIN: Really?
WWL: I know you don't feel that way.
NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?
You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?
And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.
WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.
NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.
Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.
You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.
And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.
WWL: What can we do here?
NAGIN: Keep talking about it.
WWL: We'll do that. What else can we do?
NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.
I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.
Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.
WWL: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.
NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.
WWL: We're both pretty speechless here.
NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.
WWL: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.

ChiTown
09-02-2005, 12:09 PM
WOW!

FN Wow!

Brock
09-02-2005, 12:12 PM
That's all he's been doing since it happened. I'd like to know how much noise he was making about the potential threat against his city before it actually happened.

KCTitus
09-02-2005, 12:20 PM
The anti Guliani...

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 12:29 PM
That's all he's been doing since it happened. I'd like to know how much noise he was making about the potential threat against his city before it actually happened.

He was making a big deal about it. The government knew about it. It was sighted as the 3rd most vulnerable site for attack by terriosts post 9/11.

The levee's had funds earmarked for it and passed by the house waiting Senate approval but by the time it left the senate the money was gone. There is a paper trail on this.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 12:32 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index.html
Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'
(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.


I'm calling foul on the Mayor. First off, I am the FIRST person to gladly bag on the Administration and especially their miniscule efforts in responding immediately after the storm.

BUT...

I recall posting on Tuesday evening (?) that I thought the Mayor was being WAY TO OPTIMISTIC in his assessments and that his demeanor was hardly that of someone who comprehended (or was even aware of) the scale of the tragedy and the needs to be met.

In that discussion we passed off his nonchalant additude as being in shock. But if the WH was willing to take this guy for his word then he really needs to accept some of the responsibility for their failure himself. He was telling the media he had 'everything we need' before he knew for a fact that he did. It seems to me that the WH was more than willing to believe it and initially he was trying to convince himself of it. Clearly, both were unprepared and clueless.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 12:36 PM
Anyone else have 'Donnie Bakers' voice in their head while reading that?

Anyway, I hope his point gets driven home. And fast.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 12:37 PM
I'm calling foul on the Mayor.

Oh, shut up.

Brock
09-02-2005, 12:38 PM
He was making a big deal about it. The government knew about it. It was sighted as the 3rd most vulnerable site for attack by terriosts post 9/11.

The levee's had funds earmarked for it and passed by the house waiting Senate approval but by the time it left the senate the money was gone. There is a paper trail on this.

To begin with, the levee hasn't been built that could have prevented this. Secondly, I wasn't speaking about the levee system, I was speaking about the local government not being prepared for something that was inevitably going to happen someday. These people had no plan. No. Plan. And Louisiana has had decades, at least, to formulate a response.

Boyceofsummer
09-02-2005, 12:41 PM
I'm calling foul on the Mayor. First off, I am the FIRST person to gladly bag on the Administration and especially their miniscule efforts in responding immediately after the storm.

BUT...

I recall posting on Tuesday evening (?) that I thought the Mayor was being WAY TO OPTIMISTIC in his assessments and that his demeanor was hardly that of someone who comprehended (or was even aware of) the scale of the tragedy and the needs to be met.

In that discussion we passed off his nonchalant additude as being in shock. But if the WH was willing to take this guy for his word then he really needs to accept some of the responsibility for their failure himself. He was telling the media he had 'everything we need' before he knew for a fact that he did. It seems to me that the WH was more than willing to believe it and initially he was trying to convince himself of it. Clearly, both were unprepared and clueless.

I guess they were all hoping for the 'best case scenario.' They were all wrong! Our congress should have been convened in an emergency session days ago. The political backlash is going to be historic and the scope of this disaster is still unfolding. We need to email our representatives and let them know that this congressional response is UNACCEPTABLE!

ChiTown
09-02-2005, 12:43 PM
To begin with, the levee hasn't been built that could have prevented this. Secondly, I wasn't speaking about the levee system, I was speaking about the local government not being prepared for something that was inevitably going to happen someday. These people had no plan. No. Plan.

Yep. That's my fuggin beef here. They said they were fully prepared for this, but somehow underprepared by a million miles of what would happen once the city actually took on all that water and created stranded civillians.

Come on, Mayor! This is as much at your feet and the State Gov't (including that dipshit Govenor), as it is in the slow fn response from the Feds.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 12:43 PM
I guess they were all hoping for the 'best case scenario.' They were all wrong! Our congress should have been convened in an emergency session days ago. The political backlash is going to be historic and the scope of this disaster is still unfolding. We need to email our representatives and let them know that this congressional response is UNACCEPTABLE!

I agree they were ALL hoping for a best case scenario outcome based on a worse case scenario problem... :hmmm:

I also agree that the political fallout on this is going to be enormous.

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 12:47 PM
To begin with, the levee hasn't been built that could have prevented this. Secondly, I wasn't speaking about the levee system, I was speaking about the local government not being prepared for something that was inevitably going to happen someday. These people had no plan. No. Plan. And Louisiana has had decades, at least, to formulate a response.

Excuse me? What makes you think the levee couldn't have been made better?

Brock
09-02-2005, 12:49 PM
Excuse me? What makes you think the levee couldn't have been made better?

Are you going to address the actual issues I raised, or are you going to (ignorantly) argue hypothetical engineering questions?

Uatu
09-02-2005, 12:50 PM
Get off their ass's what?

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 12:50 PM
The point is they should have a plan no matter how new or well built the levee was.

I can't believe that every Grey Hound in American isn't making a bee line straight for N.O.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 12:51 PM
The point is they should have a plan no matter how new or well built the levee was.

I can't believe that every Grey Hound in American isn't making a bee line straight for N.O.

They just announced most of the major airlines are flying to LA to help fly refugees out of LA.

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 01:23 PM
Are you going to address the actual issues I raised, or are you going to (ignorantly) argue hypothetical engineering questions?

The levee is the problem. NO is flooded because the leveee broke. Thats the actual reason. Thats the actual root cause of the infrastruture failure.

The feds planning was for chit. The local and state public's planning was for chit. Just a mindless clusterf#k or incomptence.

Brock
09-02-2005, 01:28 PM
The levee is the problem. NO is flooded because the leveee broke. Thats the actual reason. Thats the actual root cause of the infrastruture failure.

The feds planning was for chit. The local and state public's planning was for chit. Just a mindless clusterf#k or incomptence.

You seem to have a problem understanding my question. The Mayor is NOT complaining that the levees broke. The Mayor IS complaining that the Feds should be bringing in relief faster. Now, again, my question is, WTF has Louisiana been doing all this time to prepare for the eventuality? Hurricane Ivan nearly hit them last year. That should have been the LOCAL government's wakeup call to formulate some kind of a plan to deal with the next big hurricane. As I've already said, they had NO PLAN. That isn't the federal government's problem.

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 01:34 PM
fresh off of cnn
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.1506.bush.mayor.cnn.jpg
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who slammed the federal response, speaks to the president.

Wonder what he's saying?

RedDread
09-02-2005, 01:37 PM
fresh off of cnn
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.1506.bush.mayor.cnn.jpg
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who slammed the federal response, speaks to the president.

Wonder what he's saying?


Nagin: don't I look rugged in my 3 day old beard? No time to shave when I gotta bitch everyone out.

RedDread
09-02-2005, 01:39 PM
fresh off of cnn
http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/top.1506.bush.mayor.cnn.jpg
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, who slammed the federal response, speaks to the president.

Wonder what he's saying?

Bush: You know what you and I have in common? Neither of us is getting re-elected next time.

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 01:43 PM
You seem to have a problem understanding my question. The Mayor is NOT complaining that the levees broke. The Mayor IS complaining that the Feds should be bringing in relief faster. Now, again, my question is, WTF has Louisiana been doing all this time to prepare for the eventuality? Hurricane Ivan nearly hit them last year. That should have been the LOCAL government's wakeup call to formulate some kind of a plan to deal with the next big hurricane. As I've already said, they had NO PLAN. That isn't the federal government's problem.

WTF am I some kind of levee engineer?

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 01:45 PM
WTF am I some kind of levee engineer?


Maybe, and you probably sleep at Holiday Inn Express. ;)

Brock
09-02-2005, 01:49 PM
WTF am I some kind of levee engineer?

Clearly not.

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 01:54 PM
Clearly not.
Glad we cleared that up. I feel much better now.

Take this down and send to Hedley Lamar. BRC not a levee engineer. OWWWWW

KCTitus
09-02-2005, 02:00 PM
Take this down and send to Hedley Lamar. BRC not a levee engineer. OWWWWW

A 'Saddles reference...nice touch :thumb:

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 02:55 PM
They onl;y had the budget to do one city and they picked NO and they still couldn't get this right.

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a five-day, tabletop exercise last summer, emergency preparedness officials faced an imaginary "worst-case scenario" in which a hurricane hit the New Orleans, Louisiana, area.


A fictional Category 3 Hurricane Pam, with "winds of 120 mph, up to 20 inches of rain... and a storm surge that topped the levees," was the picture presented to officials from 50 federal, local and volunteer organizations, according to a Federal Emergency Management Agency dispatch from July 23, 2004.

Participants drew up action plans for dealing with the storm's aftermath in which calls for evacuation were partially heeded, water pumps were overwhelmed, corpses floated in the streets and as many as 60,000 people died -- mostly by drowning.

FEMA Director Michael Brown told CNN's Larry King on Wednesday, "When I became the director of FEMA a couple of years ago, I decided it was time we did some really serious catastrophic disaster planning. So the president gave me money through our budget to do that. And we went around the country to figure out what's the best model we can do for a catastrophic disaster in this country? And we picked New Orleans, Louisiana."

Organizers said "Hurricane Pam" was based on weather and damage information developed by the National Weather Service and other agencies.

"Hurricane Katrina caused the same kind of damage that we anticipated," Brown said Wednesday. "So we planned for it two years ago. Last year, we exercised it. And unfortunately this year, we're implementing it."

A Department of Homeland Security document described the resulting action plans from last year's exercise: Participants determined a need for 1,000 shelters for 100 days. They decided they already had 784 and would need to find the remainder.

The state of Louisiana had resources to operate shelters for three to five days, and plans were made for how federal and other sources could replenish those.

The document also lists the allocation of up to 800 searchers for search-and-rescue operations and plans for disposing of more than 30 million cubic yards of debris and hazardous waste. The group of participants also devised plans for immunization against diseases, the re-supplying of hospitals and establishment of triages at university campuses.

After the drill, FEMA concluded that progress had been made, and that hurricane planning would continue.

But one of the drill participants, Col. Michael L. Brown, then-deputy director of the Louisiana emergency preparedness department, told the Baton Rouge Advocate newspaper that, in a worst-case scenario, there would be only so much government agencies could do.

"Residents need to know they'll be on their own for several days in a situation like this," Brown, who is not related to the FEMA director, told the paper

BigRedChief
09-02-2005, 03:06 PM
WTF am I some kind of levee engineer?

I guess these dudes are:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/orleans.levees/index.html

(CNN) -- Hurricane storm surges have resulted in limited flooding of the city of New Orleans before. But Hurricane Katrina's winds pushed in a devastating surge of water from the Gulf of Mexico that overwhelmed the city's system of levees built to hold back the surrounding Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain.
On Sunday, a day before making landfall, Katrina built up strength in the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico. The NOAA's National Hurricane Center said Katrina was a Category 5 storm with sustained winds of about 160 mph as it approached the Gulf Coast.
A 28-foot storm surge was projected for the New Orleans area.
Katrina weakened slightly to a Category 4 hurricane with maximum sustained winds estimated at 145 mph as it made landfall early Monday, but it maintained a storm surge that is only generally found in category 5 storms.
"Katrina was a very large storm, high energy, high intensity coming across the gulf," said Elizabeth English, an associate professor at Louisiana State University's Hurricane Center.
"When the wind speed began to go down the storm surge did not dissipate. ... There was essentially a lot more momentum in the water than there was in the wind," said English.
As Katrina moved over land Monday the water it brought surged into Lake Pontchartrain.
A day later, the straining levees could not hold back the additional water and they broke in three places -- along the Industrial Canal, the 17th Street Canal, and the London Street Canal -- allowing water to pour into the city. (Map: See where the levees' broke (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2005/hurricanes/interactive/fullpage.nola.flood/katrina.html))
"This is what we've been saying has been going to happen for years," Walter Maestri, emergency management director in neighboring Jefferson Parish, said Monday. (Watch the video report on plugging the holes -- 3:53 (javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/tech/2005/08/31/sot.katrina.baumy.levee.ap','/tech');))
The widespread damage to the city has much to do with its topography, or "lay of the land," English said.
New Orleans sits mostly below sea level on swampland on the east bank of the Mississippi River and south of Lake Pontchartrain.
"A lack of coastal irregularities," such as substantial barrier islands or hills, and the Gulf of Mexico's flat bottom make southern Louisiana "ideal for wave damage," according to the National Weather Service Web site.
"Storm vulnerability is made worse by ongoing wetland loss and barrier island erosion," according to the U.S. Geological Survey Web site.
To prevent flooding, a system of pumps, canals and levees was put in place by the Army Corps of Engineers.
Construction of levees along the river and lake over the centuries has led to a rise in the water levels, according to the National Weather Service. Each increase of the level of water puts more pressure on the levees.
The levee system is quite extensive, but had been built only to withstand a Category 3 hurricane, English said. (See video of why the levee's breech was devastating -- 1:53 (javascript:cnnVideo('play','/video/us/2005/08/31/mattingly.levee.breaks.cnn','/us');))
"It's not that people are willfully saying we're only going to build it to a Category 3 [rating], and that's where we'll stop. It's just that's as far as the levee system had developed," English said.
"You can't strengthen every part of it in exactly the same way at the same time. And, like a chain, it suffers from the weakest link."
"It certainly couldn't have been a surprise to the Army Corps of Engineers. They knew how risky this whole levee system has been and is," "New Orleans Times-Picayune" reporter John McQuaid told CNN on Friday.
McQuaid, who wrote a five-part, award-winning series on the vulnerability of the levee system, says "there was sort of a cross-your-fingers mentality." (Read: "Times-Picayune" Special Report: Washing away (http://www.nola.com/hurricane/?/washingaway/)http://i.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/1.3/misc/icon.offsite.gif)
"Something like this depends on a storm hitting at a very precise angle, at a very precise strength, which is relatively unlikely. It's hard if you're in Congress or the Corps of Engineers to make an argument to say 'Look, we need billions of dollars to fix this problem' when you can't exactly quantify -- whether it's going to happen next year or in 100 years," McQauid said.
About 1.3 million people live in the New Orleans area. Studies have suggested a catastrophic toll in lives and property would result if a major hurricane were to hit the city.
Just last summer the Federal Emergency Managment Agency ran a worst-case senario hurricane drill for the city of New Orleans. (Full story (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/02/levee.criticism.reut/index.html))
"There were responses from emergency managers, trying to come up with plans for this type of contingency," McQuaid said.
But those had just started to get off the ground, he said.
Katrina is not the first massive storm to test the Lake Pontchartrain Basin levees.
In the wake of the hurricane of 1947 (the current naming system did not begin until 1953), levees were built along the south shore of the lake to protect Orleans and Jefferson Parishes, according to the USGS.
Officials raised existing levees in response to the flooding caused by Hurricane Betsy in 1965. Hurricane Georges in 1998 showed the vulnerability of the city and efforts were made the following year to improve the levee system, according to the USGS

Chief Henry
09-02-2005, 03:17 PM
The levee is the problem. NO is flooded because the leveee broke. Thats the actual reason. Thats the actual root cause of the infrastruture failure.

The feds planning was for chit. The local and state public's planning was for chit. Just a mindless clusterf#k or incomptence.


The officials down there had 80 fricken years since the Mississippi
River flooded in the late 20's. In that 80 year period they built just :cuss: :cuss: ONE LEVEE around the city. Can you beleave that. Just one :cuss: Levee. The dam DUTCH had more horse
cents than Americans. Thats un beleavable that in an 80 year time span they built just ONE :cuss: Levee. They sit below sea level
and they didn't have anything more than one levee.

Talk about being caught with your pants down and the camera's rolling.

KC Dan
09-02-2005, 03:26 PM
The officials down there had 80 fricken years since the Mississippi
River flooded in the late 20's. Thats un beleavable that in an 80 year time span they built just ONE :cuss: Levee. They sit below sea level
and they didn't have anything more than one levee.

Talk about being caught with your pants down and the camera's rolling.
This is not just the Bush Admin's fault this is America's fault. They've stated every time a Hurricane was in the Gulf since I can remember that NO is in danger because of its Cat3 Levee system. Every freakin' time! Is it the current admin's fault? You are damned right it is as well as every other Fed. Administration going back 80 years as well as the Louisiana State Gov't's fault. There is blame to go around everywhere. I pray they get all of those people the comfort they need and make this a unifying American problem to solve. But, I am not expecting that. I am expecting a partisan attack that will never end & nothing will ever get done. Thank the media, thank the parties, and thank the left & right winger mentalities. That has always been and will always be the problem with a lack of prepardness for any major calamity in this country.

alnorth
09-02-2005, 03:28 PM
They onl;y had the budget to do one city and they picked NO and they still couldn't get this right.

Your article doesnt support your conclusion. If anything, your article basically vindicates FEMA and the Feds. They pretty much predicted the consequences of a cat 3 hurricane hurricane, analyzed what they needed to do, and made agjustments to be ready for it. They predicted that they would be days away from helping everyone and there was nothing they could do about it.

They underestimated the impact of this hurricane, which meant they needed more shelters than they planned for, but it aint rocket science, they improvised and are sending people to Texas.

It seems like you folks expected the feds to be waiting north of Lake Pontchartrain with caravans of food and buses ready to roll in immediately. Well, that is not reasonable. Logistically and realistically, I dont see how the Federal govt could have done much better.

In the end, a ton of these refugees could have left and chose not to. This was a mandatory evacuation, and those who could have left should shoulder some of the blame for their plight. That doesnt mean we cant be compassionate anyway and help, but if you decided to ride the storm out when you had a perfectly good car or money to leave, its mostly your fault, not the govt.

Tchoupitoulas
09-02-2005, 03:29 PM
After 9/11 how many FEMA baseball caps were people wearing. none. How many NYPD/FDNY caps were people wearing. a ton. Local authorities did a heroic job under the leadership of a supremely competent mayor.

I used to live in New Orleans. The local cops are corrupt and criminal. The mayor is directly responsible for a large part of this. Instead he blames the federal government. Perfect. Chalk it up to another failure of the welfare mentality.

KC Dan
09-02-2005, 03:33 PM
This was a mandatory evacuation, and those who could have left should shoulder some of the blame for their plight. That doesnt mean we cant be compassionate anyway and help, but if you decided to ride the storm out when you had a perfectly good car or money to leave, its mostly your fault, not the govt.
Where I differ from your opinion is that if the State or Fed gov't issues a Mandatory Evacuation, shouldn't the gov't also provide the means for such an evacuation? Shouldn't the gov't (fed or state) provide the means to evacuate the sick, old, crippled? I have to answer "Yes" myself and very few times has a gov't actually assisted in an evacuation save turning both sides of a freeway North. The State could have lined buses up Saturday & Sunday to at least evacuate those who could not walk, drive, or fly.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 03:36 PM
Where I differ from your opinion is that if the State or Fed gov't issues a Mandatory Evacuation, shouldn't the gov't also provide the means for such an evacuation? Shouldn't the gov't (fed or state) provide the means to evacuate the sick, old, crippled? I have to answer "Yes" myself and very few times has a gov't actually assisted in an evacuation save turning both sides of a freeway North. The State could have lined buses up Saturday & Sunday to at least evacuate those who could not walk, drive, or fly.

Bravo. Freakin Brilliant. :clap:

KC Dan
09-02-2005, 03:40 PM
Bravo. Freakin Brilliant. :clap:I took you off ignore because I knew you would respond & I wanted to read it. Of course, no surprises. BTW, who issued the evacuation order? I'll answer for you - THE STATE!!! Bash them first and foremost, please. They deserve it. More so than the ones trying to clean up their mess. You'd get a lot more people to agree with you that way because it is RIGHT! Oh, I in no way am absolving the feds from their slow and pitiful response. But, it is a lot harder with infrastructure gone, the bowl full of water, & people shooting at rescuers

alnorth
09-02-2005, 03:40 PM
Where I differ from your opinion is that if the State or Fed gov't issues a Mandatory Evacuation, shouldn't the gov't also provide the means for such an evacuation? Shouldn't the gov't (fed or state) provide the means to evacuate the sick, old, crippled? I have to answer "Yes" myself and very few times has a gov't actually assisted in an evacuation save turning both sides of a freeway North. The State could have lined buses up Saturday & Sunday to at least evacuate those who could not walk, drive, or fly.

Ideally, sure. "Mandatory" in this case doesnt mean "come hell or high water we will ensure that everyone is out", it basically means "if you stay behind or refuse to go to a shelter, we will not try to rescue you untill the disaster is over. Your on your own if you stay home."

Providing such moving assistance for over 100,000 with the short notice given was completely, totally, and utterly impossible. Thus, the next-best thing are shelters of last resort.

Thats where the qualifiers in my above post come in. If you have no car and no money, we'll do what we can to save your life. Thats it, beyond that, we wont be able to get you out of the city immediately, and it will be very uncomfortable for a long time.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 03:40 PM
After 9/11 how many FEMA baseball caps were people wearing. none. How many NYPD/FDNY caps were people wearing. a ton. Local authorities did a heroic job under the leadership of a supremely competent mayor.

I used to live in New Orleans. The local cops are corrupt and criminal. The mayor is directly responsible for a large part of this. Instead he blames the federal government. Perfect. Chalk it up to another failure of the welfare mentality.


very nice. :clap:

KC Dan
09-02-2005, 03:42 PM
Providing such moving assistance for over 100,000 with the short notice given was completely, totally, and utterly impossible. Thus, the next-best thing are shelters of last resort.

Thats where the qualifiers in my above post come in. If you have no car and no money, we'll do what we can to save your life. Thats it, beyond that, we wont be able to get you out of the city immediately, and it will be very uncomfortable for a long time.
Agreed, but Hospitals and nursing homes should have been empty! No excuses for that.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 03:45 PM
I took you off ignore because I knew you would respond & I wanted to read it. Of course, no surprises. BTW, who issued the evacuation order? I'll answer for you - THE STATE!!! Bash them first and foremost, please. They deserve it. More so than the ones trying to clean up their mess. You'd get a lot more people to agree with you that way because it is RIGHT! Oh, I in no way am absolving the feds from their slow and pitiful response. But, it is a lot harder with infrastructure gone, the bowl full of water, & people shooting at rescuers

Excuse me, but I'm blaming the Mayor too. Have been saying he's not handling this appropriately since Tuesday evening.

alnorth
09-02-2005, 03:46 PM
Agreed, but Hospitals and nursing homes should have been empty! No excuses for that.

I'm having a bit more of a difficult time excusing the government for this. I'll give the feds a D- or F for helping those in hospitals.

We have to get 100,000 out of New Orleans, only a few of which wanted to leave before the hurricane, and it was not possible to get them out before the hurricane. OK, fine. After the hurricane, it will take several days to evacuate everyone. OK, fine.

However, given that we have limited resources, at the very least we should have prioritised those in hospitals and nursing homes in front of healthier people who will need to endure a bit more discomfort for those who cant. We didnt do that.

That doesnt make the entire effort a failure, it is being done nearly as well as could be expected, this is just one of the few failures that cant be ignored.

Chief Henry
09-02-2005, 03:50 PM
This is not just the Bush Admin's fault this is America's fault. They've stated every time a Hurricane was in the Gulf since I can remember that NO is in danger because of its Cat3 Levee system. Every freakin' time! Is it the current admin's fault? You are damned right it is as well as every other Fed. Administration going back 80 years as well as the Louisiana State Gov't's fault. There is blame to go around everywhere. I pray they get all of those people the comfort they need and make this a unifying American problem to solve. But, I am not expecting that. I am expecting a partisan attack that will never end & nothing will ever get done. Thank the media, thank the parties, and thank the left & right winger mentalities. That has always been and will always be the problem with a lack of prepardness for any major calamity in this country.



Unbeleavable. How can the levee's breaking be a partial Bush ADM fault?
The local officials in Louisiana had 80 years to make things better!

I lay the blame on the Local N'ahlens city officials over the last 80 years and the Louisiana officials and the US ARMY Core of Engineers.

As far as evacuating the city of the sick and the poor. WHY in GODS name did Mayor Nagins not use their City Metro buses to go around town the 2 days before Katrina hit to pickup the poor and sick?
NO other gov't entity had the resources in that short of time span to
pickup the POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR in N'ahlens
other than the city metro buses. Mayor Nagins should have made it mandatory for those metro bus drivers to go pick up the poor and evacuate them. He and his city officials knew the levee system the best. They Knew how fragile they're city is given the proxemty of N'ahlens being built UNDER SEA LEVEL.

Thier is no FRICKEN WAY THE FEDERAL GOV'T could have evacuted
the POOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR In N'ahlens before
Katrina hit. No way. The lack of an evacuation plan by the cityofficials of N'ahlens was pityful. They could have and should have
used the city metro buses.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 04:09 PM
CNN just reported nearly 50% of the police force in N/O has walked off the job. And less than 10k NG are in place. :shake: