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View Full Version : So....the NG in Iraq HAS impacted Katrina relief efforts


memyselfI
09-02-2005, 02:37 PM
What a moronic question that turned out to be...Not only are the boots in short supply but so too is the machinery needed to aid with search and rescue. :shake:

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/

Demands of wars since 9/11 strain National Guard's efforts

First Sergeant Brent Barnett (left) and Staff Sergeant Charles Beatty of the Louisiana National Guard helped a child board a bus during evacuation efforts in New Orleans yesterday.

By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | September 2, 2005

WASHINGTON -- The National Guard's scramble to bring aid and order to New Orleans and the Gulf Coast is hamstrung by the fact that units across the country have, on average, half their usual amount of equipment -- helicopters, Humvees, trucks, and weapons -- on hand because much of it has been siphoned off to fight the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, according to military officials and security specialists.

The equipment the Guard needs to help in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina is in shorter supply because the gear is in use in combat zones, is battle-damaged, or has been loaned to cover gaps in other units, the officials said. The National Guard Bureau estimates that its nationwide equipment availability rate is 35 percent, about half the normal level, according to Pentagon statistics.

''In the four years since 9/11 that we have been at war, equipment has been beaten up, blown up, or simply left behind," said John Goheen of the National Guard Association of the United States. ''States have had to borrow equipment and make do with a lot less equipment. We are short literally thousands of Humvees."

Meanwhile, in Louisiana and Mississippi, the states hit hardest by the hurricane, up to 40 percent of their National Guard troops are on active duty in Iraq. As a result, Guard commanders responding to the storm's havoc have been forced to look further afield for military police and other National Guard units and equipment from states as far away as Maryland, stealing precious time from the relief efforts.

Guard commanders, however, insist that their national network of state militias -- the only US forces authorized to enforce the law when local authorities are overwhelmed -- has more than enough forces to respond to the devastation caused by Katrina, one of the worst natural disasters in US history. Of the estimated 400,000 members of the National Guard, about 175,000 have been called to active duty to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the commanders said. That leaves plenty of manpower nationwide to respond to the chaos and misery along the Gulf Coast.

''Even though National Guard forces have been heavily engaged in the global war on terrorism, nearly 124,000 troops were available for duty in the 17 states along the storm's projected path," the National Guard Bureau said in a statement. ''That averages to 78 percent of those states' total Guard strength. Tens of thousands could be drawn from the rest of the nation."

Indeed, the top officer in charge of military relief efforts said yesterday that as many as 30,000 National Guard troops from across the nation will arrive in Mississippi and Louisiana in the coming days. About 24,000 of those will be on the ground in the Gulf Coast within the next three days, Army Lieutenant General Russel Honore told reporters yesterday in a telephone interview from the Pentagon. More than 4,000 will get to New Orleans by Sunday to try to bring order to the streets and rescue people still stranded.

''We continue to build our capability," Honore said. ''It's a trying situation at best, and the enormity of the task is significant."

But the strain on the Guard over the last four years has been unprecedented. The force has been relied upon as never before -- to conduct overseas combat missions, contribute to homeland security, and simultaneously fulfill its traditional obligation of domestic disaster relief.

More than a third of the 135,000 US troops in Iraq are National Guard members. Of the US casualties there, more than half were either National Guard or military reserve forces. Many who signed up for part-time Guard duty are now serving full time. Some have served multiple tours in Iraq or Afghanistan since Sept. 11, 2001 -- in some cases, in between short-term shifts patrolling airports, helping to fight wildfires, or supporting other crisis missions.

The Maryland National Guard's 115th Military Police Battalion, for example, has been on active duty for more than 24 months since September 2001 and has been deployed three times, including securing the Pentagon crash site and providing security in Iraq. About 100 of its members headed to Mississippi yesterday to provide security in the aftermath of the hurricane.

While officials said that Louisiana and Mississippi would need help from out-of-state Guard units even if their home militias were still there, the majority of the units that are coming to the Gulf Coast will take far longer to get to the disaster scene.

Delay, however, could prove critical. Frank Carlucci, a former secretary of defense tapped by President Nixon to coordinate relief efforts after Hurricane Agnes battered the Northeast in 1972, said yesterday that National Guard forces are most effective in the initial shock of a catastrophe.

''You only need the Guard in the early days to restore law and order," he said.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 02:46 PM
If we only had a crystal ball and if hindsite meant shit, you may have point.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 02:49 PM
If we only had a crystal ball and if hindsite meant shit, you may have point.


Ah, and if only the people who scoffed at my asking this question four days ago had a fuggin clue.

CHIEF4EVER
09-02-2005, 02:49 PM
Guard commanders, however, insist that their national network of state militias -- the only US forces authorized to enforce the law when local authorities are overwhelmed -- has more than enough forces to respond to the devastation caused by Katrina, one of the worst natural disasters in US history. Of the estimated 400,000 members of the National Guard, about 175,000 have been called to active duty to support the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the commanders said. That leaves plenty of manpower nationwide to respond to the chaos and misery along the Gulf Coast.

''Even though National Guard forces have been heavily engaged in the global war on terrorism, nearly 124,000 troops were available for duty in the 17 states along the storm's projected path," the National Guard Bureau said in a statement. ''That averages to 78 percent of those states' total Guard strength. Tens of thousands could be drawn from the rest of the nation."

Indeed, the top officer in charge of military relief efforts said yesterday that as many as 30,000 National Guard troops from across the nation will arrive in Mississippi and Louisiana in the coming days. About 24,000 of those will be on the ground in the Gulf Coast within the next three days, Army Lieutenant General Russel Honore told reporters yesterday in a telephone interview from the Pentagon. More than 4,000 will get to New Orleans by Sunday to try to bring order to the streets and rescue people still stranded.


Forget to read THIS part kiddo?

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 02:50 PM
Forget to read THIS part kiddo?


Nope. All I needed to read was that the delay would cause sufferng and maybe cost lives. And the lack of equipment hampers the effort. The rest of the thousands NG already here who were mobilized TOO LATE are a moot point.

CHIEF4EVER
09-02-2005, 02:55 PM
Nope. All I needed to read was that the delay would cause sufferng and maybe cost lives. And the lack of equipment hampers the effort. The rest of the thousands NG already here who were mobilized TOO LATE are a moot point.

In other words, you know better than the commanders if they are able to handle the situation or not. Silly me. I should have known.

KC Dan
09-02-2005, 02:58 PM
In other words, you know better than the commanders if they are able to handle the situation or not. Silly me. I should have known."Originally Posted by memyselfI
Nope. All I needed to read was that the delay would cause sufferng and maybe cost lives. And the lack of equipment hampers the effort. The rest of the thousands NG already here who were mobilized TOO LATE memyselfI's ramblings are a moot point."

Fixed the quote for you :hmmm:

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 03:01 PM
In other words, you know better than the commanders if they are able to handle the situation or not. Silly me. I should have known.


It took this administration four freakin days to wake up to the disaster that was the Tsunami. That was after other major countries were flooding the region with supplies and money. They were starting food drops into the region a mere two days after the event...

an event that was UNPREDICTED and had no prior preparation time. The difference? Other governments with their heads in places other than up their azzes took the iniative and started to address the situation vs. struming guitar or pondering whether or not to cancel a fundraiser.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 03:03 PM
Ah, and if only the people who scoffed at my asking this question four days ago had a fuggin clue.

Only 175K of the 400k N.G. are already called up. The state governments of LA and MS should have asked for help immediatly. The feds can not order the N.G. until that is done.

Try venting your stank somewhere else.

CHIEF4EVER
09-02-2005, 03:04 PM
It took this administration four freakin days to wake up to the disaster that was the Tsunami. That was after other major countries were flooding the region with supplies and money. They were starting food drops into the region a mere two days after the event...

an event that was UNPREDICTED and had no prior preparation time. The difference? Other governments with their heads in places other than up their azzes took the iniative and started to address the situation vs. struming guitar or pondering whether or not to cancel a fundraiser.

What exactly does the above tirade have to do with whether or not the Guard can handle the situation? Focus, Focus......

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 03:05 PM
Only 175K of the 400k N.G. are already called up. The state governments of LA and MS should have asked for help immediatly. The feds can not order the N.G. until that is done.

Try venting your stank somewhere else.

And if you recall, I faulted the Mayor for his demeanor immediately after the hurricane because he presented too rosey a scenario. BUT, his misplaced optimism still does not detract from the fact that those same guardsmen that they did end up needing were in locations far from the disaster and it took precious time to get them in place. Time that was costing lives and money.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 03:06 PM
What exactly does the above tirade have to do with whether or not the Guard can handle the situation? Focus, Focus......

You asked about the commanders. I responded with an cliche example of the Commander in Chief.

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 03:20 PM
And if you recall, I faulted the Mayor for his demeanor immediately after the hurricane because he presented too rosey a scenario. BUT, his misplaced optimism still does not detract from the fact that those same guardsmen that they did end up needing were in locations far from the disaster and it took precious time to get them in place. Time that was costing lives and money.


Yeah, yeah, we know you fault everyone for everything. For someone who honestly believes she has the right answer all the time, you sure waste precious hours on an I/N BB.

Perhaps you should start getting involved with these important jobs. You have all the answers. You know everything before it happens. get off your ass and proove it.

memyselfI
09-02-2005, 03:23 PM
Yeah, yeah, we know you fault everyone for everything. For someone who honestly believes she has the right answer all the time, you sure waste precious hours on an I/N BB.

Perhaps you should start getting involved with these important jobs. You have all the answers. You know everything before it happens. get off your ass and proove it.

LOL, I worked a full day and am now going to get my kids and still find time to stay current on events and try to offset ignorance, like your own, on boards like this...

Duck Dog
09-02-2005, 03:31 PM
LOL, I worked a full day

Sure you did.