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RINGLEADER
09-04-2005, 11:10 AM
How was it Bush's fault?

I know many on the left want to tie Bush to the disaster in New Orleans as well as the initial response to the lawlessness and rescue efforts. But isn't it a fact that Governor Blanco had a very short window before things got really bad to federalize the situation and did not? Didn't local authorities need to request federal action to assist in the evacuation? Didn't that request come after the city's infrastructure was decimated? Wasn't it Mayor Ray Nagin's decision not to stop looting in favor of rescue efforts (thereby adding a completely different problem to the equation)? Why do liberals blame Bush for not unilaterally declaring federal marshall law when I've read countless times over the past couple years from countless DU dorks that Bush should be stopped from exercising some ominous design to instill marshall law?

The New Orleans government? Please. I spoke with a friend who was with Mayor Nagin the day before the storm hit. You'd flip if you heard what he was doing instead of getting the citizens of New Orleans out of harm's way.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 11:46 AM
How was it Bush's fault?
it's not his fault

last i checked he doesn't control the weather

he didn't build new orleans

he didn't setup that cheap @ss levy system


BUT....


as President of the United States he does accept the responsibility.

he appointed the (apparent) dumb@ss to head FEMA

he didn't have someone make sure that a suitable response was in the works when everyone knew that a cat 4/5 hurricane was gonna hit that general area.

he's the leader .. he appoints and oversees the whole government


fair or not ... the President accepts responsibility, in many ways, FOR the United States when he swears in.

SBK
09-04-2005, 11:47 AM
The New Orleans government? Please. I spoke with a friend who was with Mayor Nagin the day before the storm hit. You'd flip if you heard what he was doing instead of getting the citizens of New Orleans out of harm's way.

Ok, make me flip.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 12:42 PM
There is no way to stop the initial lawlessness in that situation. Most of the guardsmen called upon had to first get their families out of there, then immediately report to duty.

Keep in mind that the people at the Superdome lost their minds after the first day. Flood waters were still rising, there were people that needed to be saved, and to top it off, rescuers were being shot at.

I'd say at this point if there is anyone to blame, it's the LA government and FEMA for not having a worse case scenario planned out. I’d also blame those with the means to evacuate but didn’t. The killers, rapists and thieves are also to blame.

It amazes me when people, left or right, hold the POTUS responsible for something that had little or nothing to do with him, yet give the thugs and criminals free passes. Pretty pathetic.

mlyonsd
09-04-2005, 01:16 PM
On one of the Sunday morning shows someone made the statement that the LA Governor didn't want to issue the mandatory evacuation order of NO and it was the Bush administration that forced the issue.

If that is true, which I can't hardly believe, then even meme would have to conclude it could have been worse.

But it is clear there were breakdowns in every level of government on this one. Local, state, and federal. It's easy to get all worked up and start pointing fingers when there are images of screaming babies with no food or water.

My biggest gripe with the administration is there failure to force NO to have a decent evacuation plan on the shelf ready to implement. IMO FEMA should now look at cities that are of the biggest risk of any/all catastrophy and force them to update their evacuation plans. The government does it in regards to drunken drivers, if a state doesn't conform to federal guidelines their transportation money is cut off. I think this disaster should force the same kind of arrangement.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 01:31 PM
It amazes me when people, left or right, hold the POTUS responsible for something that had little or nothing to do with him, yet give the thugs and criminals free passes. Pretty pathetic.
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass


they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.


expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared


it's called leadership

BCD
09-04-2005, 01:35 PM
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass


they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.


expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared


it's called leadershipI suppose Bush could just hang out in the WH and get knob-jobs from interns. Is that the leadership you are refering to?

go bowe
09-04-2005, 01:36 PM
in hindsight, it would have been great if the president, or someone acting on his behalf, had ordered the military to prepare to help evacuate new orleans as soon as the storm became strong and headed right at new orleans, a major city with a large population...

they could have prepositioned the same military assets that they are (finally) starting to use...

ships could have begun moving to the area, just in case (because the storm would cause a catastrophe in a major city), and would have been there within a day or two of the levee breaking...

no-one but the most rabid anti-bushers would fault him for taking such initiative, even if it "only" turned out to be the expected level of devastion along the ms and al coast

of course, for a president to take such action before the storm had even hit, would have been unprecedented in american history (so far as i know)...

but, maybe next time they'll begin the military response before storms strike a major city...

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 01:43 PM
How was it Bush's fault?It weren't Bush's fault. He did his job just as he was supposed to. Just like when he did when he was told that America is under attack... he just kept reading "My Pet Goat" until one of his handlers told him what to do and what to say. This time, he just kept playin golf and goofing around, playing guitar and cracking jokes as the disaster claimed life after life after life. Eventually, someone told him to put the guitar down, handed him a speech to read, and told him to put on his "serious" face. Here's a picture of him joking and playing as his fellow citizens simultaneously died by the hundreds on Tuesday. Notice how concerned he looks about Americans dying by the truckload as he strums along:

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

go bowe
09-04-2005, 01:43 PM
On one of the Sunday morning shows someone made the statement that the LA Governor didn't want to issue the mandatory evacuation order of NO and it was the Bush administration that forced the issue.

If that is true, which I can't hardly believe, then even meme would have to conclude it could have been worse.

But it is clear there were breakdowns in every level of government on this one. Local, state, and federal. It's easy to get all worked up and start pointing fingers when there are images of screaming babies with no food or water.

My biggest gripe with the administration is there failure to force NO to have a decent evacuation plan on the shelf ready to implement. IMO FEMA should now look at cities that are of the biggest risk of any/all catastrophy and force them to update their evacuation plans. The government does it in regards to drunken drivers, if a state doesn't conform to federal guidelines their transportation money is cut off. I think this disaster should force the same kind of arrangement.all good ideas...

i'd add that the new evacuation plans should also require prior arrangements to utilize all available public transportation (including school busses and commercial busses) to evacuate those who cannot do so on their own...

and to stock emergency supplies in likely shelters, particularly very large places like the dome and the convention center...

ain't hindsight wonderful?

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 01:47 PM
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass


they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.


expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared


it's called leadership

I agree with this. Mobilizing the guard was a no-brainer but it still wouldn't made much of difference. Not one expert was on TV the week before the storm warning that something of this magnitude could happen. Plus the guardsmen had families to evacuate themselves first. Furthermore, you can't just send rescuers into harms way without first evaluating situation. It takes time to set a plan in motion. (if LA had one)

I think instead of idiots like Dumbneez alway's looking for someone to blame, we should be learning from the mistakes. Pointing fingers now, certainly isn't helping anyone in LA.

I also wonder how many thousands could have avoided death or a few day's without food and water if they had evacuated like they were told.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 01:47 PM
in hindsight, it would have been great if the president, or someone acting on his behalf, had ordered the military to prepare to help evacuate new orleans as soon as the storm became strong and headed right at new orleans, a major city with a large population...

they could have prepositioned the same military assets that they are (finally) starting to use...

ships could have begun moving to the area, just in case (because the storm would cause a catastrophe in a major city), and would have been there within a day or two of the levee breaking...

no-one but the most rabid anti-bushers would fault him for taking such initiative, even if it "only" turned out to be the expected level of devastation along the ms and al coast

of course, for a president to take such action before the storm had even hit, would have been unprecedented in american history (so far as i know)...

but, maybe next time they'll begin the military response before storms strike a major city...

that's true except if you take a few things into consideration

1. the strength of the storm. (cat 4/5 is exceptional)

2. the circumstance of New Orleans in general ... it was widely known that a strong hurricane would be a catastrophe for that particular city.

3. the hurricane was known to be cat 5 ... it didn't surprise anyone

4. as soon as it turned north we knew it was going to destroy something, someplace. Mobilization and getting emergency procedures would of helped wherever it hit.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 01:48 PM
Who let UD out from under his rock?

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 01:51 PM
I suppose Bush could just hang out in the WH and get knob-jobs from interns. Is that the leadership you are refering to?
yea... that's eggzactly what i'm talking about, BCD



now go back to your finger painting

CHIEF4EVER
09-04-2005, 01:54 PM
Who let UD out from under his rock?

I think he was moved to minimum security and all those on his wing are on work release. j/k ROFL

go bowe
09-04-2005, 01:57 PM
that's true except if you take a few things into consideration

1. the strength of the storm. (cat 4/5 is exceptional)

2. the circumstance of New Orleans in general ... it was widely known that a strong hurricane would be a catastrophe for that particular city.

3. the hurricane was known to be cat 5 ... it didn't surprise anyone

4. as soon as it turned north we knew it was going to destroy something, someplace. Mobilization and getting emergency procedures would of helped wherever it hit.i think that there's nothing inconsistent about our two posts...

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 01:57 PM
I think he was moved to minimum security and all those on his wing are on work release. j/k ROFL


I figured they gave him the holiday off from testing experimental aids drugs.

go bowe
09-04-2005, 01:58 PM
I think he was moved to minimum security and all those on his wing are on work release. j/k ROFLwho's kidding?

he is after all a *gasp* faider fan... :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 02:04 PM
I figured they gave him the holiday off from testing experimental aids drugs.Hey... this time, I didn't photoshop the pic. This actually really is what Bush was doing way after the levees broke and scores of people were really actually dying as he strumed a tune and joked around. This actually really is his reaction to the horror. On Wednesday, as many more people died and thugs ran rampant shootin & lootin, I believe Bush played a round of golf. Check it out....


http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

BCD
09-04-2005, 02:07 PM
yea... that's eggzactly what i'm talking about, BCD



now go back to your finger painting
ROFL

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 02:08 PM
Hey... this time, I didn't photoshop the pic. This actually really is what Bush was doing way after the levees broke and scores of people were really actually dying as he strumed a tune and joked around. This actually really is his reaction to the horror. On Wednesday, as many more people died and thugs ran rampant shootin & lootin, I believe Bush played a round of golf. Check it out....


http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg


Dude, you're an idiot. Go back to that gay ass site Salon.com where you belong.

Your thoughts and ideas on this subject aren't worthy of debate.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 02:25 PM
Dude, you're an idiot. Your thoughts and ideas on this subject aren't worthy of debate.You still don't get it... this is not my thought or my idea - its an actual real photo of your "hero." You can't debate a photo, it just is. (Geesh... and you call me an idiot). Seriously, check it out... its all over the country. This really is your "strong leader" during the disaster.

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 02:30 PM
Yeah, bashing Bush is really adding to the debate. If you want to stroke others who feel the same as you, I suggest heading back to Salon.com or DU where you can hang with other morons.

Boyceofsummer
09-04-2005, 02:30 PM
Dude, you're an idiot. Go back to that gay ass site Salon.com where you belong.

Your thoughts and ideas on this subject aren't worthy of debate.

You could give BigChiefDave a knob-job instead of calling rational intelligent posters names. Geeeeezzzzzzzz

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 02:33 PM
You could give BigChiefDave a knob-job instead of calling rational intelligent posters names. Geeeeezzzzzzzz

Rational intelligent posters? Stop it. You're already the laughing stock of the DC. However, I didn't think you could post without using pictures, so good for you.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 03:03 PM
I didn't think you could post without using pictures, so good for you.Hey... I know better than accusing posters of being idiots and morons. If my accusation was false, people might think I was stoopid or something. But you, the other Duck, are starting to figure out the photo thingie. This particular photo has powerful propaganda value. We anti-Republicans are going to get a lot of mileage out of this image:

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

P.S. "Propaganda" can mean using facts to damage an opposing cause, and that is my usage of the word in the rant above.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 03:07 PM
Yeah, UD, I understand. It must be tough to get dressed without the colored animals to help you match your shorts with your shirt.

BigOlChiefsfan
09-04-2005, 03:11 PM
This whole thing reminds me of Blazing Saddles when an urgent telegram, which arrived from the town of Rock Ridge the previous Friday, is read by the governor's secretary: "Sheriff murdered, church meeting bombed. Reign of terror must cease. Send new sheriff immediately." Mel Brooks, as Gov. Le Petomane is incensed: "We've gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen, we must do something about this immediately!"

No matter who's howling this week, or why they're howling, I just keep seeing Mel Brooks protecting his phoney-baloney job.

RINGLEADER
09-04-2005, 03:23 PM
he appointed the (apparent) dumb@ss to head FEMA[

he didn't have someone make sure that a suitable response was in the works when everyone knew that a cat 4/5 hurricane was gonna hit that general area.

he's the leader .. he appoints and oversees the whole government


fair or not ... the President accepts responsibility, in many ways, FOR the United States when he swears in.


Fair enough.

But when the administration asked to federalize the effort and the head of the state doesn't respond (according to the Washington Post, as of yesterday, Blanco had STILL not declared a state of emergency) how do you lay it at his feet (even if the people he has in place are dumbasses)?

RINGLEADER
09-04-2005, 03:26 PM
Hey... this time, I didn't photoshop the pic. This actually really is what Bush was doing way after the levees broke and scores of people were really actually dying as he strumed a tune and joked around. This actually really is his reaction to the horror. On Wednesday, as many more people died and thugs ran rampant shootin & lootin, I believe Bush played a round of golf. Check it out....


http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg


Yeah, as I posted elsewhere the political play was muffed by the prez's people...I think everyone got a false sense of security when New Orleans missed the brunt of the hurricane and was still standing...didn't occur to anyone that the extra water in the lake would increase the stress on the levees...

RINGLEADER
09-04-2005, 03:29 PM
My biggest gripe with the administration is there failure to force NO to have a decent evacuation plan on the shelf ready to implement. IMO FEMA should now look at cities that are of the biggest risk of any/all catastrophy and force them to update their evacuation plans. The government does it in regards to drunken drivers, if a state doesn't conform to federal guidelines their transportation money is cut off. I think this disaster should force the same kind of arrangement.


But they did...unfortunately the locals didn't implement it. And by the time they moved to pull the trigger - from what I've read - it was too late.

I think there's a picture on Drudge of a fleet of school buses sitting underwater along with the plan that calls for those buses to be used to evacuate the city.

RINGLEADER
09-04-2005, 03:34 PM
im not giving the thugs or Bush a free pass

they should of mobilized the guard BEFORE the hurricane hit. As soon as the cat 5 turned north they should of have mobilized the guard and put emergency procedures into motion.

Bush should of made sure that FEMA was ready to go ... his responsibility.

expect the worst, hope for the best ... be prepared

it's called leadership

Um...prove me wrong if you have a link, but I don't think Bush can send in the national guard without the state's request unless he's stopping an insurrection.

FEMA couldn't do the job with the breakdown and lawlessness that occured, not to mention the overall collapse of the city's infrastructure. But your point in that regard is well placed IMO.

penchief
09-04-2005, 03:51 PM
Dude, you're an idiot. Go back to that gay ass site Salon.com where you belong.

Your thoughts and ideas on this subject aren't worthy of debate.

Dog, I think you're out of line. Duck has a very legitimate point. If Bush had been doing his job he wouldn't be playing golf and strumming guitar. When are Bush apologizers going to finally face the truth about his ignorance. Never, I presume.

Bush is an effin' moron. Everybody knows that but only 60% of the country will admit to it because the rest are concerned about preserving their petty pride or their political philosophy/world view. Grow up and quit slinging childish insults at people who have legitimate points which counter your manlove for Bush, the idiot president.

penchief
09-04-2005, 03:57 PM
Yeah, bashing Bush is really adding to the debate. If you want to stroke others who feel the same as you, I suggest heading back to Salon.com or DU where you can hang with other morons.

I agree that Bush bashing isn't helping the victims of Katrina. However, accountability is essential to effective governance. Homeland Security is a joke. This administration has a pattern of exhibiting exactly ZERO forsight. The reason? Because they only care about their 'effin agenda, not about doing the job of pragmatic governance.

You, my friend, are in denial. While Bush bashing won't help the Gulf Coast recover, your denial will abet the continued lack of accountability that continues to destroy the foundations this country. The White House's forsight, planning, and response to Katrina is a perfect example of their incompetence.

BigOlChiefsfan
09-04-2005, 04:10 PM
Bus fuss:

http://junkyardblog.net/archives/week_2005_08_28.html#004752

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050901/480/flpc21109012015

DenverChief
09-04-2005, 04:12 PM
1. Not one expert was on TV the week before the storm warning that something of this magnitude could happen.
2. Plus the guardsmen had families to evacuate themselves first. .3.I also wonder how many thousands could have avoided death or a few day's without food and water if they had evacuated like they were told.
1. If National Geographic knew about this a year ago then you bet your last dollar that the feds and the state knew this could happen.
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

2. The Entire Louisiana National Guard is not located in New Orleans

3. It is impossible to escape safely when one has no money and no transportation out of town. Which is precisely why the State and in some small part the feds should have been overseeing the evacuation. Making sure there were school busses and greyhounds to get those folks out.

Logical
09-04-2005, 04:18 PM
Who let UD out from under his rock?Yes the fact that he brings a great argument to this thread should be ignored, afterall he is a RAider fan.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:20 PM
I agree that Bush bashing isn't helping the victims of Katrina. However, accountability is essential to effective governance. Homeland Security is a joke. This administration has a pattern of exhibiting exactly ZERO forsight. The reason? Because they only care about their 'effin agenda, not about doing the job of pragmatic governance.

You, my friend, are in denial. While Bush bashing won't help the Gulf Coast recover, your denial will abet the continued lack of accountability that continues to destroy the foundations this country. The White House's forsight, planning, and response to Katrina is a perfect example of their incompetence.

just because I'm not running around like a fugging moron posting pics of Bush playing guitar, doesn't mean I'm sucking his bawls.

Your last line is typical of those morons I speak of.

memyselfI
09-04-2005, 04:21 PM
Yes the fact that he brings a great argument to this thread should be ignored, afterall he is a RAider fan.

That has been there M.O. for months...

either an argument they can't counter is stoooopid or the poster is or both.

It's very transparent, but of course you know that.

DenverChief
09-04-2005, 04:21 PM
1.
2.3.
1. If National Geographic knew about this a year ago then you bet your last dollar that the feds and the state knew this could happen.
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

2. The Entire Louisiana National Guard is not located in New Orleans

3. It is impossible to escape safely when one has no money and no transportation out of town. Which is precisely why the State and in some small part the feds should have been overseeing the evacuation. Making sure there were school busses and greyhounds to get those folks out.

http://static.flickr.com/21/40095359_694e0666dc_o.jpg

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:23 PM
1.
2.3.
1. If National Geographic knew about this a year ago then you bet your last dollar that the feds and the state knew this could happen.
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

2. The Entire Louisiana National Guard is not located in New Orleans

3. It is impossible to escape safely when one has no money and no transportation out of town. Which is precisely why the State and in some small part the feds should have been overseeing the evacuation. Making sure there were school busses and greyhounds to get those folks out.

1. The week prior to the storm, no one that I saw was raising the issue of the levees breaking.

2. I don't know where they reside, but there were 7K on notice.

3. I was refering to those who could make it out but didn't even try.

Stinger
09-04-2005, 04:24 PM
all good ideas...

i'd add that the new evacuation plans should also require prior arrangements to utilize all available public transportation (including school busses and commercial busses) to evacuate those who cannot do so on their own...



http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg

As for that all you would need would be to look at the Louisiana Disaster Plan:

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

Why the Mayor and his staff didn't follow that one is a mystery to me as well?

As for Bush not stopping the looting and providing assistance, hindesight is a wonderful thing you are correct.

But IMO if Bush does activate the National Guard and Military those on the left would be clamoring states rights and Bush is trying to take over the situation for personal gain.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:27 PM
Yes the fact that he brings a great argument to this thread should be ignored, afterall he is a RAider fan.


It weren't Bush's fault. He did his job just as he was supposed to. Just like when he did when he was told that America is under attack... he just kept reading "My Pet Goat" until one of his handlers told him what to do and what to say. This time, he just kept playin golf and goofing around, playing guitar and cracking jokes as the disaster claimed life after life after life. Eventually, someone told him to put the guitar down, handed him a speech to read, and told him to put on his "serious" face. Here's a picture of him joking and playing as his fellow citizens simultaneously died by the hundreds on Tuesday. Notice how concerned he looks about Americans dying by the truckload as he strums along:



Yeah, that's some great debate material. He might as well just posted the picture with the caption; "Bush kills blacks with his guitar."
:rolleyes:

Adept Havelock
09-04-2005, 04:31 PM
Yes, the locals screwed up, as did the Feds. Thousands of American Citizens are now dead because there was Massive failure on the local, state, and federal levels.


I'm not sure which disgusts me more. The Moonbats claiming it's all Bush's fault, or the Wingnuts who refuse to accept the fact that a Bush League administration dropped the ball as well.

At least, according to this document from the dept. of homeland security. Give it a look, and pay close attention to the parts that state they do NOT require State requests to take the lead in a catastrophic situation. This was adopted by the admin. in 2004

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf

Both are nothing more than A**holes.

Logical
09-04-2005, 04:31 PM
1. The week prior to the storm, no one that I saw was raising the issue of the levees breaking.

2. I don't know where they reside, but there were 7K on notice.

3. I was refering to those who could make it out but didn't even try.


Well how about that, an article on August 28th talking about the danger of the levee's breaking.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/
Crescent City under evacuation; storm may overwhelm levees

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:34 PM
Yes, the locals screwed up, as did the Feds. Thousands of American Citizens are now dead because there was Massive failure on the local, state, and federal levels.


I'm not sure which disgusts me more. The Moonbats claiming it's all Bush's fault, or the Wingnuts who refuse to accept the fact that a Bush League administration dropped the ball as well.

At least, according to this document from the dept. of homeland security. Give it a look, and pay close attention to the parts that state they do NOT require State requests to take the lead in a catastrophic situation. This was adopted by the admin. in 2004

http://www.dhs.gov/interweb/assetlibrary/NRPbaseplan.pdf

Both are nothing more than A**holes.


Can someone prove that we could have entered the city sooner than we did to save more people from drowning in their attacks?

Logical
09-04-2005, 04:34 PM
Yeah, that's some great debate material. He might as well just posted the picture with the caption; "Bush kills blacks with his guitar."
:rolleyes:

If you are not smart enough to realize he should have canceled that event and had his priorities squarely placed on the disaster occuring in the Gulf Coast, I pity you.

Logical
09-04-2005, 04:36 PM
Can someone prove that we could have entered the city sooner than we did to save more people from drowning in their attacks?The Federal Government always has the right to over-ride the state and local government in an emergency, rarely done, but they have the right.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:40 PM
Well how about that, an article on August 28th talking about the danger of the levee's breaking.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/08/28/hurricane.katrina/


Well, how about that. I read that article twice and not once did it even hint that the levees would break. Only that the storm could drive a wall of water over the city's levees. Which sounds like a pretty typical warning for a storm that size.

penchief
09-04-2005, 04:43 PM
just because I'm not running around like a fugging moron posting pics of Bush playing guitar, doesn't mean I'm sucking his bawls.

Your last line is typical of those morons I speak of.

What's wrong with posting that picture if it accurately depicts what our president was doing at that time? It seems relevent to me. Are you angry because it IS indefensible?

Are you referring to my last line about this administration's forsight and planning? If so, are you agreeing with me or are you somehow suggisting that I'm a moron for pointing out this administration's repeated failure to exercise forsight or proper planning? After all, their lack of forsight and planning is a pattern that has been consistently repeated.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:44 PM
If you are not smart enough to realize he should have canceled that event and had his priorities squarely placed on the disaster occuring in the Gulf Coast, I pity you.


Don't pity me. Please, continue with your incessant Bush tirades. The fact that you post along side the Islamaslut, is enough to discard your opinion about me or anything else for that matter.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:46 PM
What's wrong with posting that picture if it accurately depicts what our president was doing at that time?



Absolutely nothing. If the dumbass wanted to stage dive the audience, I could care less. I just seriously doubt he could have done more at the time than what was already being done.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 04:47 PM
Fair enough.

But when the administration asked to federalize the effort and the head of the state doesn't respond (according to the Washington Post, as of yesterday, Blanco had STILL not declared a state of emergency) how do you lay it at his feet (even if the people he has in place are dumbasses)?
so your saying the the state of LA basically told the President of the United States to go to h*ll?



i find this difficult to believe



sounds like red tape issues and excuses to me


personally i think the city and state official in LA fugged up in a major way.


But the federal government needs to whip that state @ss, when they aren't getting it done, so they take some heat too.

penchief
09-04-2005, 04:48 PM
Don't pity me. Please, continue with your incessant Bush tirades. The fact that you post along side the Islamaslut, is enough to discard your opinion about me or anything else for that matter.

The fact that you continue to resort to insults such as "Islamaslut" only proves that you are reacting and not thinking. Again, grow up and start analyzing events using your own logic instead of exercising knee-jerk responses that only reinforce faulty assumptions on your part.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:51 PM
so your saying the the state of LA basically told the President of the United States to go to h*ll?



i find this difficult to believe



sounds like red tape issues and excuses to me


personally i think the city and state official in LA fugged up in a major way.


But the federal government needs to whip that state @ss, when they aren't getting it done, so they take some heat too.

Exactly. Rational thoughts from the left, and you didn't have to call Bush a baby killer. Rep.

alnorth
09-04-2005, 04:54 PM
The Federal Government always has the right to over-ride the state and local government in an emergency, rarely done, but they have the right.

Except that the military commanders have flat-out stated today that they could not position pre-hurricane troops and relief efforts closer to the affected area than they had. Otherwise, they would not be rescue workers, instead they would have been victims.

Adept Havelock
09-04-2005, 04:55 PM
Can someone prove that we could have entered the city sooner than we did to save more people from drowning in their attacks?

First off, I'm criticizing ALL levels of govt. Guess you can't stand the fact that your dog in the race screwed up, just like the rest. Read the damn PDF link in my previous post if you don't believe me. It's from the DHS website.

Secondly, if the press could get in, and the bright gent. who commandeered a bus could get out, it stands to reason there was access both ways.
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/topstory2/3334317

Furthermore, it appears that the local Hyatt got a relief convoy for their guests on Wed. (Sent from the Hyatt's in Southern East Coast Cities)

That said, why has FEMA, not the local govt., FEMA, blocked the premire disaster relief org. from NO since the beginning? Any intelligent suggestions there?

I've heard the suggestion "it might encourage people to stay" already:
to which I'll pre-emptively respond: Let me get this straight. We let people die because if the Red Cross had been there with supplies, others might have been more inclined to stay?

From the Pittsbugh Post-Gazette (copied on a blog)
http://rempost.blogspot.com/2005/09/homeland-security-wont-let-red-cross.html

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 04:57 PM
Exactly. Rational thoughts from the left, and you didn't have to call Bush a baby killer. Rep.
i think the leader of FEMA needs to be canned


the city and state officials in LA need to hit the bricks too after things settle.


too many things got left undone and unplanned for some serious cleaning house not to happen.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 04:57 PM
The fact that you continue to resort to insults such as "Islamaslut" only proves that you are reacting and not thinking. Again, grow up and start analyzing events using your own logic instead of exercising knee-jerk responses that only reinforce faulty assumptions on your part.


You're calling me out for insults? Pot meet kettle.

The focus of this thread is 'why Blame Bush?' I've yet to see one legit reason to bash Bush posted here. On the contrary, all I've seen is one picture of him playing guitar. That does not lend credence for blaming Bush.

penchief
09-04-2005, 05:00 PM
Exactly. Rational thoughts from the left, and you didn't have to call Bush a baby killer. Rep.

Surely, if Bush knew what he needed to do he would have done it, right?

Why did it take so long in Mississippi? Same thing as Louisiana, regardless of what Mr. Barbour says. I'd believe the victims story before I believed Barbour's praise of the federal response. After all, Barbour is from the House of Bush.

I'd like to have been a fly on the wall in the cabin of that compartment. I find it hard to believe that a man as "large and in charge" as Bush would let people die because a wimpy female democratic governor wanted time to think about it. I mean, he's decisive, right? This administration has shown little regard for state soveriegnty when those states have gotten in the way of their agenda.

I believe there is a lot more to this story than meets the eye. Probably just more passing the buck and CYA, which has become a trademark of this administration.

Just my opinion.

Adept Havelock
09-04-2005, 05:00 PM
It's obvious Duck Dog does not bleive the boss should be held responsible for the results an organization produces.

I pity anyone who ever works for him, if he could ever convince someone to.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 05:01 PM
First off, I'm criticizing ALL levels of govt. Guess you can't stand the fact that your dog in the race screwed up, just like the rest. Read the damn PDF link in my previous post if you don't believe me. It's from the DHS website.



How did Bush screw up? I agree that the federal agency (FEMA) and the local governments screwed the pooch and that the WH has a certain responsibility for that. But beyond that, you and the other moonbats got nothing.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 05:03 PM
It's obvious Duck Dog does not bleive the boss should be held responsible for the results an organization produces.

I pity anyone who ever works for him, if he could ever convince someone to.


So using that logic, we as a country are really the ones at fault because we hired the boss who in turn hired the boss of FEMA. So everyone who voted for Bush should die now.

You're smart!

Adept Havelock
09-04-2005, 05:05 PM
How did Bush screw up? I agree that the federal agency (FEMA) and the local governments screwed the pooch and that the WH has a certain responsibility for that. But beyond that, you and the other moonbats got nothing.
The fact you would refer to me as a moonbat proves your own ideological blinders, better than I ever could. Thanks, I now know to look at any future posts from you with an especially discerning eye.

I challenge you to find one single "Moonbat" post I've made...damn wingnut.

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 05:06 PM
the federal agency (FEMA) and the local governments screwed the pooch and that the WH has a certain responsibility for that
that's it right there ... nothing more, nothing less


the more important debate is who REALLY screwed up bad and what can be done so it doesn't happen again.

checks and balances, protocols,SOP


we can also talk about the competence of the WH in general and why didn't they identify and prevent the state/FEMA mistakes.


i don't see how the FEMA guy keeps his guy ... i just don't.

Adept Havelock
09-04-2005, 05:06 PM
So using that logic, we as a country are really the ones at fault because we hired the boss who in turn hired the boss of FEMA. So everyone who voted for Bush should die now.

You're smart!

What a lovely strawman. Think I'll put it in the garden to scare off the birds. Thanks, and I'll now return you to your wingnuttery. :clap:

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 05:08 PM
i think the leader of FEMA needs to be canned


the city and state officials in LA need to hit the bricks too after things settle.


too many things got left undone and unplanned for some serious cleaning house not to happen.


I can't believe that we didn't have a plan for any state under any natrual disaster circimstance. If a tornado blazes through southern Minnesota, I want to know that FEMA alreay has a plan to move and house people.

Why there wasn't a plan to have grey hounds and trucks with food and water waiting to enter the city is beyond me. I believe they never conceived the notion that the levees would break.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 05:10 PM
What a lovely strawman. Think I'll put it in the garden to scare off the birds. Thanks, and I'll now return you to your wingnuttery. :clap:


Shhhh. Not while the grown ups are talking.

penchief
09-04-2005, 05:17 PM
It's obvious Duck Dog does not bleive the boss should be held responsible for the results an organization produces.

It's called the chain of command.

I thought we figured that out at Waco.

the Talking Can
09-04-2005, 05:19 PM
Every Republican I see on TV says the Administration's response to this disaster was embarassing and incompetant (like my spelling).

Even the ass kissers on Fox's "political pundits" roundtable were saying EXACTLY that this morning. So, I guess, you coud send them an email and ask them why they hate America and love Terrorists.

Then you could explain to them how silly it is to think the President and Commander in Chief is responsible for anything at all. Because according to the nutjobs in this forum (ringdinger, patteau, mr. sybil kotter), President Bush isn't to be held accountable for anything he says or does. Or for who he appoints. Or for how he manages. Or for what budget cuts he champions. Or for phony intel. Or stolen money. Or, well, ****ing anything.

Being President must be the greatest job in the world. All the perks, none of the responsibilities...like protecting our own citizens...on our own ****ing soil.

penchief
09-04-2005, 05:22 PM
I pity anyone who ever works for him, if he could ever convince someone to.

Oh, I don't know. No matter how incompetent someone in this administration proves to be they don't lose their jobs. I assume it would be mighty simple to convince someone like Mr. Brown to take on an important government job, whether that person were qualified or not.

Accountability is not a trademark of the Bush presidency nor the Neocon movement.

Duck Dog
09-04-2005, 05:26 PM
The fact you would refer to me as a moonbat proves your own ideological blinders, better than I ever could. Thanks, I now know to look at any future posts from you with an especially discerning eye.

I challenge you to find one single "Moonbat" post I've made...damn wingnut.


Instead of playing the victim, how about addressing my post? If you can't handle the verbal abuse that accompanies nearly every post in the DC, then I suggest you stick to the football board.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 05:34 PM
What's wrong with posting that picture if it accurately depicts what our president was doing at that time? It seems relevent to me. Are you angry because it IS indefensible?Bingo. I'm gonna try to make the point again - without my usual colorful sarcasm - and maybe the Other Duck will get it. OK... here goes...

The question was asked... "How is this Bush's fault?" Its not Bush's fault because Bush is not the guy in charge. Bush is not capable enough to be the guy in charge. Bush is "president" in name only. Others tell him what to do and what to say. This is supported by the fact that he continued to smile and clap for schoolchildren reading "My Pet Goat" after learning of the second plane hitting the WTC and being told that our country is under attack. Real presidents take charge and do something in gigantic, historic national crises. Bush waits for someone to tell him what to do.

Here he is clapping & smiling as Americans were leaping to their deaths from burning buildings on 9/11, after being told of the second plane and that the country is under attack:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/people/bushatbooker2.jpg

And, more recently, joking around playing guitar as people drown in the South:

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

Brock
09-04-2005, 05:37 PM
Bingo. I'm gonna try to make the point again - without my usual colorful sarcasm - and maybe the Other Duck will get it. OK... here goes...
]

Yeah...cuz he should have been biting his lip and wringing his hands and looking all presidential-like and stuff.....

jettio
09-04-2005, 05:39 PM
B*sh clearly warned us that he was going to spend the political capital that he earned.

Can't blame a guy for wanting to workout and fund raise, and go about making speeches about his wonderful war in Iraq.

It is probably going to be the highest deathtoll on American land since the Civil War, but it is not like golf or playing the guitar ain't fun.

I have to give B*sh credit, I never thought he was qualified to do a good job as President, but he has exceeded my worst expectations by so much I can not even imagine how somebody that supported him would not have buyer's remorse.

There just has to have been a lot of brainwashing of people.

the Talking Can
09-04-2005, 05:44 PM
By this time, Republicans are used to lies that cost thousands their lives. Everything you need to know about responsibility is in the bolded section below:



sane people demand accountability (http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054586)

An Angry 'Times-Picayune' Calls for Firing of FEMA Chief and Others in Open Letter to President On Sunday

We heard you loud and clear Friday when you visited our devastated city and the Gulf Coast and said, "What is not working, we’re going to make it right."

Please forgive us if we wait to see proof of your promise before believing you. But we have good reason for our skepticism.

Bienville built New Orleans where he built it for one main reason: It’s accessible. The city between the Mississippi River and Lake Pontchartrain was easy to reach in 1718.

How much easier it is to access in 2005 now that there are interstates and bridges, airports and helipads, cruise ships, barges, buses and diesel-powered trucks.

Despite the city’s multiple points of entry, our nation’s bureaucrats spent days after last week’s hurricane wringing their hands, lamenting the fact that they could neither rescue the city’s stranded victims nor bring them food, water and medical supplies.

Meanwhile there were journalists, including some who work for The Times-Picayune, going in and out of the city via the Crescent City Connection. On Thursday morning, that crew saw a caravan of 13 Wal-Mart tractor trailers headed into town to bring food, water and supplies to a dying city.

Television reporters were doing live reports from downtown New Orleans streets. Harry Connick Jr. brought in some aid Thursday, and his efforts were the focus of a "Today" show story Friday morning.

Yet, the people trained to protect our nation, the people whose job it is to quickly bring in aid were absent. Those who should have been deploying troops were singing a sad song about how our city was impossible to reach.

We’re angry, Mr. President, and we’ll be angry long after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have been were not. That’s to the government’s shame.

Mayor Ray Nagin did the right thing Sunday when he allowed those with no other alternative to seek shelter from the storm inside the Louisiana Superdome. We still don’t know what the death toll is, but one thing is certain: Had the Superdome not been opened, the city’s death toll would have been higher. The toll may even have been exponentially higher.

It was clear to us by late morning Monday that many people inside the Superdome would not be returning home. It should have been clear to our government, Mr. President. So why weren’t they evacuated out of the city immediately? We learned seven years ago, when Hurricane Georges threatened, that the Dome isn’t suitable as a long-term shelter. So what did state and national officials think would happen to tens of thousands of people trapped inside with no air conditioning, overflowing toilets and dwindling amounts of food, water and other essentials?

State Rep. Karen Carter was right Friday when she said the city didn’t have but two urgent needs: "Buses! And gas!" Every official at the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be fired, Director Michael Brown especially.

In a nationally televised interview Thursday night, he said his agency hadn’t known until that day that thousands of storm victims were stranded at the Ernest N. Morial Convention Center. He gave another nationally televised interview the next morning and said, "We’ve provided food to the people at the Convention Center so that they’ve gotten at least one, if not two meals, every single day."

Lies don’t get more bald-faced than that, Mr. President.

Yet, when you met with Mr. Brown Friday morning, you told him, "You’re doing a heck of a job."

That’s unbelievable.

There were thousands of people at the Convention Center because the riverfront is high ground. The fact that so many people had reached there on foot is proof that rescue vehicles could have gotten there, too.

We, who are from New Orleans, are no less American than those who live on the Great Plains or along the Atlantic Seaboard. We’re no less important than those from the Pacific Northwest or Appalachia. Our people deserved to be rescued.

No expense should have been spared. No excuses should have been voiced. Especially not one as preposterous as the claim that New Orleans couldn’t be reached.

Mr. President, we sincerely hope you fulfill your promise to make our beloved communities work right once again.

When you do, we will be the first to applaud.

BCD
09-04-2005, 05:46 PM
Yeah, that's some great debate material. He might as well just posted the picture with the caption; "Bush kills blacks with his guitar."
:rolleyes:
ROFL

Mr. Laz
09-04-2005, 05:48 PM
I believe they never conceived the notion that the levees would break.
just as a side note ... the levees didn't break


it was the sidewalls of the canal itself that broke


apparently the walls were only 2 feet thick(from 1969)





not that the people of new orleans care about the difference

gblowfish
09-04-2005, 05:55 PM
One of the big problems was the Feds not assuming immediate control over response and resource coordination. Check out this story from today's Chicago Tribune about a Navy ship, STILL waiting for its disaster orders six days later:

While federal and state emergency planners scramble to get more military relief to Gulf Coast communities stricken by Hurricane Katrina, a massive naval goodwill station has been cruising offshore, underused and waiting for a larger role in the effort.

The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore.

The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents.

But now the Bataan's hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty. A good share of its 1,200 sailors could also go ashore to help with the relief effort, but they haven't been asked. The Bataan has been in the stricken region the longest of any military unit, but federal authorities have yet to fully utilize the ship.

Captain ready, waiting

"Could we do more?" said Capt. Nora Tyson, commander of the Bataan. "Sure. I've got sailors who could be on the beach plucking through garbage or distributing water and food and stuff. But I can't force myself on people....

"I figured we would be a big help in New Orleans. We've got electricity, and the police could have charged up their radios. We've got water, toilets. We've got food."

Adept Havelock
09-04-2005, 05:56 PM
Instead of playing the victim, how about addressing my post? If you can't handle the verbal abuse that accompanies nearly every post in the DC, then I suggest you stick to the football board.

I'm neither playing the victim, nor whining, you wingnut.

You however, are providing a wonderful illustration of how a wingnut conducts a debate. When their talking points are addressed/refuted with links to actual govt. publications, or press reports that bump up against their spin on reality, they accuse others of whining or acting inappropriately, in a vain effort to move the focus from them.

As for "addressing your post", check my posts above. I don't belive I missed any of you alleged "points".

I still stand by mine. The head of an organization is responsible for the conduct of that organization. It's called accountability...look it up.

I'm Still waiting for proof of a "moonbat" post from me, wingnut-lad.

gblowfish
09-04-2005, 07:23 PM
"You are like a hurricane
There’s calm in your eye.
And I’m gettin’ blown away
To somewhere safer where the feeling stays.
I want to love you but I’m getting blown away......"

Logical
09-04-2005, 07:27 PM
Except that the military commanders have flat-out stated today that they could not position pre-hurricane troops and relief efforts closer to the affected area than they had. Otherwise, they would not be rescue workers, instead they would have been victims.That is bullshit asscovering. I am suprised you don't recognize it.

dirk digler
09-04-2005, 07:28 PM
Simple answer from a great president who had a plaque on his desk.

"The buck stops here."

Like it or not when you are POTUS you get the credit when things go right and you get shit when things go wrong even if you had nothing to do with either.

Logical
09-04-2005, 07:39 PM
Well, how about that. I read that article twice and not once did it even hint that the levees would break. Only that the storm could drive a wall of water over the city's levees. Which sounds like a pretty typical warning for a storm that size.Here are two more sources the internet is filled with them.

Times-Picayune; the paper reported about the consequences of budget cuts on the levees in June 2004: For the first time in 37 years, federal budget cuts have all but stopped major work on the New Orleans area's east bank hurricane levees, a complex network of concrete walls, metal gates and giant earthen berms that won't be finished for at least another decade.
"I guess people look around and think there's a complete system in place, that we're just out here trying to put icing on the cake," said Mervin Morehiser, who manages the "Lake Pontchartrain and vicinity" levee project for the Army Corps of Engineers. "And we aren't saying that the sky is falling, but people should know that this is a work in progress, and there's more important work yet to do before there is a complete system in place."
The Chicago Tribune added (http://mediamatters.org/rd?http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509010170sep01,1,6275508,print.story?coll=chi-news-hed) on September 1:
Despite continuous warnings that a catastrophic hurricane could hit New Orleans, the Bush administration and Congress in recent years have repeatedly denied full funding for hurricane preparation and flood control.
That has delayed construction of levees around the city and stymied an ambitious project to improve drainage in New Orleans' neighborhoods.
For instance, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers requested $27 million for this fiscal year to pay for hurricane-protection projects around Lake Pontchartrain. The Bush administration countered with $3.9 million, and Congress eventually provided $5.7 million, according to figures provided by the office of U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-La.).
Because of the shortfalls, which were caused in part by the rising costs of the war in Iraq, the corps delayed seven contracts that included enlarging the levees, according to corps documents.
Much of the devastation in New Orleans was caused by breaches in the levees, which sent water from Lake Pontchartrain pouring into the city. Since much of the city is below sea level, the levee walls acted like the walls of a bowl that filled until as much as 80 percent of the city was under water.
Similarly, the Army Corps requested $78 million for this fiscal year for projects that would improve draining and prevent flooding in New Orleans. The Bush administration's budget provided $30 million for the projects, and Congress ultimately approved $36.5 million, according to Landrieu's office.
"I'm not saying it wouldn't still be flooded, but I do feel that if it had been totally funded, there would be less flooding than you have," said Michael Parker, a former Republican Mississippi congressman who headed the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers from October 2001 until March 2002, when he was ousted after publicly criticizing a Bush administration proposal to cut the corps' budget.

By the way during the last Hurricane season they talked on the National News about the dangers of the Levee's being breeched during what I believe was Hurricane Camille, fortunately the hurricane veered and NO was spared that time.

Logical
09-04-2005, 07:41 PM
Simple answer from a great president who had a plaque on his desk.

"The buck stops here."

Like it or not when you are POTUS you get the credit when things go right and you get shit when things go wrong even if you had nothing to do with either.This President has a sign that says the buck was given to Halliburton talk to Dick Cheney if you want it accounted for.

alnorth
09-04-2005, 07:41 PM
That is bullshit asscovering. I am suprised you don't recognize it.

Use some common sense. What happens when you fly a squad of helicopters into a hurricane?

Put on top of it the fact that right after the hurricane passed, it appeared that New Orleans escaped fairly unscathed for quite a while till the levee broke. Combine that with the fact that the state did not call in the national guard untill we had a full-blown disaster.

I blame the authorities for not intelligently prioritizing the resources they had (get out the sick and neediest first), but I can hardly fault the FEDS (as opposed to the state) for the speed of those resources.

WilliamTheIrish
09-04-2005, 07:49 PM
just as a side note ... the levees didn't break


it was the sidewalls of the canal itself that broke


apparently the walls were only 2 feet thick(from 1969)





not that the people of new orleans care about the difference


As posted in another thread, the canal levees are the responsibility of the local levee board.

Wanna know what the NOLA levee board has done in the last 10 years?

Bought a casino

bought a marina

bought a PRIVATE plane!!!
This was according to a guy named Jim Rogers who regularly is on FOX business/ money show. (http://www.foxnews.com/)

[Go to the right side of the page and click "Click here for more video." Then click on "Blame Game." It's about a 4 minute segment and Rogers is in the last 1:15.]

Now, just to be clear, this is not an attempt to clear the POTUS or any of his f*cking cronies. However, let us not forget the mayor, who cried loud and long only when the gig was up. That useless mofo let upwards of 500 busses (that could carry 100 people or more per) sit unused while the city was inundated and folks who could have been evacuated were left to die. Then he points the finger every which way but in the mirror.

Bowser
09-04-2005, 07:56 PM
I suppose Bush could just hang out in the WH and get knob-jobs from interns. Is that the leadership you are refering to?

How ****ing predictable is this ^ post?

DenverChief
09-04-2005, 08:13 PM
Use some common sense. What happens when you fly a squad of helicopters into a hurricane?

Who said anything about flying a squadron of helcoptors into a storm?

Put on top of it the fact that right after the hurricane passed, it appeared that New Orleans escaped fairly unscathed for quite a while till the levee broke.



The levee broke the night the hurricane made landfall....there was no "right after the hurricane passed everthing seemed ok" thats a load of :BS:


Monday 29 August
Hurricane Katrina hits the Gulf coast, wreaking havoc in the states of Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama.

Many areas of New Orleans are flooded and winds of more than 100mph (160km/h) tear off part of the roof of the Superdome stadium where some 9,000 people are taking refuge.

Power lines are cut, trees felled, shops wrecked and cars hurled across streets strewn with shattered glass.

There are reports that some of the city's flood defences have been breached.


Tuesday 30 August
The scale of the devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina and the subsequent flooding becomes clearer.

[an error occurred while processing this directive]

About 80% of the low-lying city is under water. Helicopters and boats are picking up survivors stranded on rooftops across the area - many are to spend several more days there.

Rescuers are said to be pushing aside the dead bodies floating in the water, as they try to reach survivors.

With some of the city's flood defences breached, the situation is getting more desperate as waters continue to rise.

Hundreds of people are feared dead along the Mississippi coast.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 08:15 PM
I never thought he was qualified to do a good job as President, but he has exceeded my worst expectations by so much I can not even imagine how somebody that supported him would not have buyer's remorse.They have it. They have buyer's remorse. Its just that only Vlad and a few others have both the guts and the honesty to admit it. Notice how often the "support" for Bushron is now little more than a "the Dems didn't offer an alternative worth voting for" defense. During the campaign, the righties cheered that the Dem's platform was "Anybody but Bush." Now, after the dismal failure of their own choice, all they have to offer is their own version - "Maybe its possible that a Dem president might have done even worse." Some righties actually have the guts to admit the obvious. The others are left twisting in the wind, trying in vain to come up with some way to defend the Bushron failure and still sound reasonable. Its a tough position to try and hang on to. Ya gotta respect the brave and honest righties. The others, well, they still need a lotta work....

jcl-kcfan2
09-04-2005, 08:27 PM
The Federal Government always has the right to over-ride the state and local government in an emergency, rarely done, but they have the right.


Uhh... it wasn't an emergency (declared) yet...

Need to revise that ol'timeline.

jcl-kcfan2
09-04-2005, 08:29 PM
The fact that you continue to resort to insults such as "Islamaslut" only proves that you are reacting and not thinking. Again, grow up and start analyzing events using your own logic instead of exercising knee-jerk responses that only reinforce faulty assumptions on your part.

That is not an insult when talking about "her", just a fact of life.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 08:37 PM
Uhh... it wasn't an emergency (declared) yet... Need to revise that ol'timeline.Timeline reminder from Faux News:

"CRAWFORD, Texas — President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina"

BCD
09-04-2005, 08:45 PM
How ****ing predictable is this ^ post?
ROFL

Logical
09-04-2005, 09:07 PM
Timeline reminder from Faux News:

"CRAWFORD, Texas — President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina"Thanks UD, I remembered that but was not able to find it. My Google skills had failed me.

mlyonsd
09-04-2005, 09:19 PM
Timeline reminder from Faux News:

"CRAWFORD, Texas — President Bush declared a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday because of the approach of Hurricane Katrina"

Right. As it turns out the adminstration was more worried about the hurricane than the local officials.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 10:10 PM
As it turns out the adminstration was more worried about the hurricane than the local officials.You mean this worried? Ya think maybe he was singing the blues?

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

Logical
09-04-2005, 10:29 PM
You mean this worried? Ya think maybe he was singing the blues?

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpgOf course he was can't you see it in his worried facial features. I swear with a disaster of this magnitude you would have to either be retarded or high/drunk maybe both to be so nonchalant.

Ugly Duck
09-04-2005, 10:57 PM
I swear with a disaster of this magnitude you would have to either be retarded or high/drunk maybe both to be so nonchalant.Dems are shamelessly using the ineptitude of the federal response to rip and tear at Bush. Take a gander at the venom these two are spewing:

"If we can't respond faster than this to an event we saw coming across the Gulf for days, then why do we think we're prepared to respond to a nuclear or biological attack?" asked former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, a Republican.

Republican Gov. Mitt Romney of Massachusetts called the government's response "an embarrassment."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/03/bush.radio.katrina.ap/index.html


Oh wait.... those are Republicans joining in....

mlyonsd
09-04-2005, 11:03 PM
Of course he was can't you see it in his worried facial features. I swear with a disaster of this magnitude you would have to either be retarded or high/drunk maybe both to be so nonchalant.

I have no problem with you mocking Bush's initial reaction.

For him to not cancel everything on his agenda and react to the crisis as a leader is his biggest failure.

But if you're going to blame deaths on him then we have an issue.

BigRedChief
09-04-2005, 11:08 PM
Among the doctors stymied from helping out are 100 surgeons and paramedics in a state-of-the-art mobile hospital, developed with millions of tax dollars for just such emergencies, marooned in rural Mississippi

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/04/katri...e.ap/index.html

The North Carolina mobile hospital stranded in Mississippi was developed through the Office of Homeland Security after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. With capacity for 113 beds, it is designed to handle disasters and mass casualties.Equipment includes ultrasound, digital radiology, satellite Internet, and a full pharmacy, enabling doctors to do most types of surgery in the field, including open-chest and abdominal operations.It travels in a convoy that includes two 53-foot trailers, which as of Sunday afternoon was parked on a gravel lot 70 miles north of New Orleans because Louisiana officials for several days would not let them deploy to the flooded city, Rich said.Yet plans to use the facility and its 100 health professionals were hatched days before Hurricane Katrina devastated the Gulf Coast, doctors in the caravan said.

mlyonsd
09-04-2005, 11:11 PM
Well shit, Nightline just reported that 200 NO city buses are sitting in a flooded area.

I guess Bush should have told the local officials they were dumbshits and driven them out himself before the levee broke.

WoodDraw
09-04-2005, 11:29 PM
I guess Bush should have told the local officials they were dumbshits and driven them out himself before the levee broke.

These have to be some of the lamest responses. People aren't blaming Bush for unreasonable things. Why shouldn't public officials be held accountable when they screw things up?

go bowe
09-05-2005, 12:26 AM
1.
2.3.
1. If National Geographic knew about this a year ago then you bet your last dollar that the feds and the state knew this could happen.
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

2. The Entire Louisiana National Guard is not located in New Orleans

3. It is impossible to escape safely when one has no money and no transportation out of town. Which is precisely why the State and in some small part the feds should have been overseeing the evacuation. Making sure there were school busses and greyhounds to get those folks out.1. actually, hadn't fema listed a hurricane hitting new orleans as one of the top three (or ten?) projected disasters?

2. true, although some of them are located in iraq...

3. that's what some people don't seem to get...

(no public transportation = no transportation for lots of urban poor)

it's almost like they never knew any poor people...

they don't seem to have any freaking idea what living in poverty is like...

and then there's the sick and elderly too...

seems like some people think that they should have all gotten up and walked out instead of lying around and complaining about their ventilators not working...

i agree with you completely...

btw, does that qualify me as a rump ranger now?

it probably will, according to some, but i don't mind being called your butt buddy...

in fact, it's kind of an honor of sorts...

good heavens, it's late and i'm a little loaded (well, a lot loaded) and i have no idea what i'm talking about (as usual)...

good post, dc... :toast: :toast: :toast:

Logical
09-05-2005, 12:36 AM
I have no problem with you mocking Bush's initial reaction.

For him to not cancel everything on his agenda and react to the crisis as a leader is his biggest failure.

But if you're going to blame deaths on him then we have an issue.Directly no, indirectly certainly, by putting an incompetent in charge of FEMA we certainly have more deaths than we would have with a compentent leader of FEMA.

go bowe
09-05-2005, 12:58 AM
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg

As for that all you would need would be to look at the Louisiana Disaster Plan:

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...

Why the Mayor and his staff didn't follow that one is a mystery to me as well?

As for Bush not stopping the looting and providing assistance, hindesight is a wonderful thing you are correct.

But IMO if Bush does activate the National Guard and Military those on the left would be clamoring states rights and Bush is trying to take over the situation for personal gain.i don't think the president is responsible for the way that people react to a very stressful situation...

he is not respsonsible for the evacuation plan not being fully implemented (regarding the evacuation of those unable to evacuate on their own)...

although the president could have activated the guard, it would not have made more of them available any sooner and it would have deprived them of being able to operate as law enforcement officers if they were federalized (posse comitatus)...

what i was suggesting is that he (in a perfect world) should have gotten the active military moving and ready to take over the business of rescue and delivering supplies for the living and let the ng assist the police in keeping order..

it takes a day or two to get active units ready to move, if not longer, and it takes 5 -6 days to get naval assets (God, i love that word) to the new orleans area...

those things could have been done even without any request from the states and would not be usurping local authorities in any way, just preparing to mobilize the assistance that was clearly going to be needed along the gulf coast, and which apparently is now being mobilized...

and, who give's a rat's ass what politicians say? the president doesn't seem to care much about what his critics say and i can't imagine him being deterred by what teddy kennedy might think or say about him...

i think it would have been much better if he had taken the action regarding use of active duty forces before the storm had even hit rather than days and days after the disaster happened...

i suspect if someone had told him that there would be a huge need for active duty assets if new orleans was to be hit, he would have gone ahead and ordered it even if the left didn't like it...

the Talking Can
09-05-2005, 01:04 AM
more fiddling while shit burns type stuff:




FEMA's current head, Michael Brown, has appeared over his head and even a little clueless in news interviews. He is far from the sort of take-charge presence New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani conveyed after 9/11.

Up to now, the Bush administration has not hesitated to sweep aside the opinions of lawyers on such matters as prisoners' rights. But after Katrina, a strange paralysis set in. For days, Bush's top advisers argued over legal niceties about who was in charge, according to three White House officials who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the negotiations. Beginning early in the week, Justice Department lawyers presented arguments for federalizing the Guard, but Defense Department lawyers fretted about untrained 19-year-olds trying to enforce local laws, according to a senior law-enforcement official who requested anonymity citing the delicate nature of the discussions.

While Washington debated, the situation in New Orleans and along the Gulf Coast deteriorated. Bush traveled to the region in part to work out a deal with local officials to establish a clearer chain of command. By the weekend, federal officials said there could be tens of thousands of troops in New Orleans in short order. Saturday, Bush pledged to return to the region on Monday—and to deploy 7,000 additional active-duty troops under the Pentagon's control. But for many, the help was arriving too late.



morons of state (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179587/page/5/)

Logical
09-05-2005, 01:05 AM
Just one more thing, if nothing else a President should be a reassuring presence in a crisis. I doubt if 20% of Americans found his actions or statements reassuring. If anything his ineptitude in this crisis added to the feeling that we have an unbounded crisis ongoing and no real national leadership to contain it.

DenverChief
09-05-2005, 01:20 AM
1. actually, hadn't fema listed a hurricane hitting new orleans as one of the top three (or ten?) projected disasters?

2. true, although some of them are located in iraq...

3. that's what some people don't seem to get...

(no public transportation = no transportation for lots of urban poor)

it's almost like they never knew any poor people...

they don't seem to have any freaking idea what living in poverty is like...

and then there's the sick and elderly too...

seems like some people think that they should have all gotten up and walked out instead of lying around and complaining about their ventilators not working...

i agree with you completely...

btw, does that qualify me as a rump ranger now?

it probably will, according to some, but i don't mind being called your butt buddy...

in fact, it's kind of an honor of sorts...

good heavens, it's late and i'm a little loaded (well, a lot loaded) and i have no idea what i'm talking about (as usual)...

good post, dc... :toast: :toast: :toast:


:LOL:

Thanks I just don't understand where some of these people were supposed to go if they had decided to walk? alongside I-10 and get blown off the brigde when the storm hit? and as you said the elderly and sick wouldn't even be able to make it a block or two without some kind of vehicle....

tk13
09-05-2005, 04:11 AM
Well, I don't think any of this really falls straight on Bush. I do think some people underneath him didn't exactly shine. Now that certainly leads to an argument of how much responsiblity the President should take for people underneath him. Obviously some, he's the head honcho, but how much, I have no idea. That doesn't mean that local government is abstained from criticism, as I said over on the original Hurricane thread when the city was going to hell and nobody was really paying attention, that just about every level of government would have to get pretty close to an F from me.

This was not a surprise attack, this was a hurricane that we saw coming. Forecasters predicted it fairly accurately, with the hurricane making landfall just slightly east of expected. Studies had been done, we knew the potential catastrophic nature of this event. Everybody knew that the levees holding was not a sure thing. They only brought that up approx. 375 million times in the coverage leading up to landfall. Even during the morning of landfall, I remember CNN's chief meterologist saying on air that while everybody was happy a "direct hit" didn't happen to NOLA, he personally still was concerned that all the water being surged up by the northeast quadrant of the hurricane was going to push right into Lake Pontchartrain and cause problems. Anyone who was unprepared for any kind of levee problem had their head in the sand.

tk13
09-05-2005, 04:31 AM
And I should add that remember, when the levee breached, they were able to secure helicopter assistance from National Guard helicopters to drop sandbags to try and block the water first thing in the morning. Somehow, on the way to that delivery, somebody re-routed the helicopter for a rescue operation, allowing the water to flow into the city for many more hours and level out and causing an even bigger mess.

That is precisely when NOLA's mayor flipped out at the federal government and proclaimed "too many cooks in the kitchen". And he probably has a legitimate beef. Maybe I missed it somewhere, but I still don't understand what happened there. That was a complete and total communication breakdown that cost several lives and weeks upon weeks of recovery time for the city.

BigOlChiefsfan
09-05-2005, 06:06 AM
http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2005/09/mississippi-versus-louisiana.html

Mississippi versus Louisiana

I read Gov. Blanco's (D-LA) statement too with some weird bemusement. Free tip - contrast the Louisiana situation with the one next door in Mississippi - Gov. Barbour (R-MS). What's been lost in all the blather over New Orleans is that it was really Mississippi that took the big hit. The buildings in New Orleans are still standing; the Gulf Coast of Mississippi basically has been scrubbed, like God took out a pencil eraser and just erased it. (Up in the northern hemisphere, since storms spin counterclockwise, the worst part of a hurricane is the "right-front" quadrant - because the wind is going with the momentum of the storm's movement, plus the wind pushes the storm surge along. The center hit basically at the MS/LA state line, so MS was on the bad side.)

I really don't like to find fault at times like this, but one thing that was missing was a quick recognition that in such a situation the potential for civil collapse is nearly 100%. Once the weather settles, you need to immediately declare marshal law and send in the MPs. That's basically what Haley Barbour did in Mississippi - there were a few early problems but very quickly the MPs were patrolling what was left of Biloxi and Gulfport and keeping a lid on things. Back on Tuesday when I put on the news and we all saw Kathleen Blanco bursting into tears, I knew that was the wrong message and would bring trouble. Louisiana and New Orleans basically have those touchy-feely, "I'm okay, you're okay" soft-leftie types in charge. Their education took a few days and has been expensive.

So I hope you're Watching Mississippi. Highly recommended - we may have found our next President out of this (you heard it here first).

Amidst all the hyperventilating that's going on, it's actually a good time for a civics lesson, particularly watching the competence of the people in Mississippi and the gross incompetence of almost all concerned in Louisiana. Who was responsible for what?

- The mayor of NO has been a good hyperventilator, but one thing became obvious quickly. NO is below sea level and it was inevitable that someday The Worst was going to happen. NO didn't even take the worse possible hit (MS did), but it was clear that no one in NO had ever planned for The Worst. Last weekend, the mayor said, "Everyone get out of town." It's obvious that lots of people weren't able to just load up the car and go - folks with no transportation like that, the incapacitated, patients in hospitals, etc. There was no plan to really evacuate the city, and it's the local officials (over decades) who were responsible for that.

- Why wasn't the National Guard called out sooner to maintain order? Responsibility with each state's National Guard contingent in situations like this (where they operate within state boundaries) is the responsibility of each state's governor. To put it bluntly, the responsibility for calling out the NG in LA rested with the governor. If it didn't happen on time, that's HER failing.

Mississippi got hammered much worse than Louisiana but is barely in the news because the leadership has been much more competent. Ms. Blanco is clearly way out of her league in this situation.

This was a good reminder that LA has for decades been our worst managed and most corrupt state. I briefly caught a bit of the News Hour last night, and David Brooks pointed that out; he also pointed out something that's pretty obvious - for the most part, the South has been booming for the past 25 or so years. The major cities went from backwater jokes to leading cities - Atlanta, Raleigh, Dallas, all of Florida, etc. The "hole in the map" in all of this has been Louisiana - it's like the last 25 or 30 years of southern growth have passed it right by. Get away from the gussified tourist areas and NO is a pretty awful city.

He also asked why we were so good at quick response halfway around the world in Banda Aceh while we seemed so unable to handle something right in the country. That's actually pretty obvious to me. Indonesia was a piece of cake because there was no bureaucracy out there - "What have we got over near there?" "The USS Lincoln battlegroup." "Send 'em in and let the Navy people on site to run the show." Inside this country, you have multiple interlocking bureaucracies that just don't know what to do on their own, let alone when they try to interact.

When I worked for ibm, the bureaucracy in the headquarters region in lower NY was so bad that the people "running" (sic?) the company even admitted that they couldn't manage it. The company's successes came from intentionally putting activities far away from there to keep the "system" from "managing" things. When ibm wanted to build its first PC, they set the project up in Florida to keep it far away from the HQ mess. The site I worked at was far enough away (eventually NOT far enough though) away to be able to get things done without interference. Those award-winning ibm laptops? That was all done in Japan, to keep it REALLY far away from HQ.

The most effective response to NO probably would have been to just turn the project over to the Navy immediately and tell everyone else to leave them alone. But of course that wouldn't happen because then all those bureaucracies would be forced to admit that they are much worse than useless when the crunch comes...

penchief
09-05-2005, 06:59 AM
I have no problem with you mocking Bush's initial reaction.

For him to not cancel everything on his agenda and react to the crisis as a leader is his biggest failure.

But if you're going to blame deaths on him then we have an issue.

It's all about priorities. The Bush administration continues to be remiss in it's duties because of their focus on political priorities over their repsonibility to pragmatic governance. We've seen it over and over again. Hence, photo ops over practical action, slogans over candid discussion, and backslapping over accountability.

the Talking Can
09-05-2005, 08:00 AM
http://billmon.org/archives/fema.jpg

mlyonsd
09-05-2005, 09:31 AM
These have to be some of the lamest responses. People aren't blaming Bush for unreasonable things. Why shouldn't public officials be held accountable when they screw things up?

It's not unreasonable for Bush and FEMA to expect the local officials to protect the means by which evacuation would take place.

Mr. Laz
09-05-2005, 10:58 AM
It's not unreasonable for Bush and FEMA to expect the local officials to protect the means by which evacuation would take place.

and it's not unreasonable to expect Bush and FEMA to make SURE that the local officials had the proper plans in place considering how important the situation was.

gblowfish
09-05-2005, 12:23 PM
Toles in the Washington Post:

memyselfI
09-05-2005, 12:42 PM
Here is the breakdown as I see it:

On Blanco: because she would not reliquish control of the National Guard because she was 1. afraid of the politicizing of the situation and 2. because she believed that if she did that would mean that her NG troops would not have police jurisdiction and she needed the security apparatus in case of the worst. In the case of number 2 she was correct in doing so because as it turned out she needed those folks for policing. I understand the problem was then that the WH then wanted to let her sink or swim on her own. She should have known these assholes would play hardball and as such she played right into their hands and will end up being a, if not THE, fall guy. The WH will try to blame her for this but her letter of 8/26 clearly shows she tried to get their help and for some reason it became a political football even before the hurricane hit.

On Nagin: He made a huge error in his calm and nonchalant demeanor the night the levies had broken. I recall stating how eerily out of touch his demeanor seemed. He was on TV reassuring everyone the city had things under control and clearly he had no idea that they wouldn't or couldn't. Chertoff referred to the Mayor's demeanor and the 'dodged the bullet' coverage as being a primary reason why the Feds did nothing and DUHbya played golf. Clearly, the responsible reaction should have been for Nagin to call in any and all help even if to overkill the situation. It would have meant alittle embarrassment and some apologizing if he had cried wolf for no reason. But his assessment that things were 'under control' too soon was a dangerous prediction and ended up being a deadly one. He did correct this with his 'get off your asses' rant but by then how many people had died?

DUHbya & the Feds: Under FEMA's charter they are responsible securing the health, safety, and disaster response in a national disaster.

And like DUHbya's initial non-response to 9/11 and his "My Pet Goat" episode, his staying on the West Coast and playing guitar and golf did not show leadership as CIC. Not to mention, the directive that had taken FEMA from a cabinet level position to a branch of HS made the need for the President's response more immediate and important. There was no reason that if there was a conflict with the LA mayor regarding their NG that he could not have contacted neighboring states to get an initial authorization for deployment of their troops. There was no reason that planes, trains and automobiles could not have been on stand by outside the LA/MS borders.

And then the little issue of Iraq depleting resources that could have been used here. This was an issue in the evacuation, in the relief, and it will remain for the rebuild. While our NG are building 'schools and hospitals and bridges' in Iraq we'll get to hire Halliburton. :rolleyes:

So there is PLENTY of blame to go around. The bottom line is that the POTUS is the CIC in a national emergency and regardless of what went on on the state and local level, once this hurricane would impact more than one state, impact national highways, impact the nation's ecomony, impact national troops, and possibly impact national security HE is in charge and therefore responsible.

And the media: I got lots of flak for stating the media had acted irresponsibly in their 'it's bad/it's not so bad/it's bad' coverage. But they bear some responsibility here for stating that a bullet had been dodged because N/O did not take a direct hit. Clearly, it took less than a direct hit to destroy a city.

WoodDraw
09-05-2005, 02:42 PM
How much money have we spent on Homeland Security since 9/11? That's my problem here. We have spent millions if not billions of dollars in an attempt to better plan and respond to catastrophic events like this and it took a week (!) for the city to get secured.

This was a complete breakdown at every level of government, from the President all the way down to the Mayor. And again the question is will anyone be held accountable?

BigOlChiefsfan
09-05-2005, 02:52 PM
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html

DanT
09-05-2005, 03:35 PM
http://www.ejectejecteject.com/archives/000129.html


...
I have been the first person at four accident scenes. I have crawled into overturned cars on country roads, cars whose wheels were still spinning, and gone on hands and knees through broken glass to comfort strangers while uniformed policemen stood around outside and told jokes.
...


Do you suppose that he means that there were uniformed policeman standing around outside, say at a donut shop in another timezone, telling jokes, or do you think he means that they were at the accident scene with "cars whose wheels were still spinning", standing around and telling jokes within earshot of Proteus while Proteus was "comforting strangers" after having "gone on hands and knees through broken glass"?

penchief
09-05-2005, 05:20 PM
Watching TV for the last few days it is my impression that Bush's job now is to hug a lot of victims.

headsnap
09-05-2005, 06:43 PM
Watching TV for the last few days it is my impression that Bush's job now is to hug a lot of victims.

you watch too much TV. ;)

Ugly Duck
09-05-2005, 07:33 PM
Watching TV for the last few days it is my impression that Bush's job now is to hug a lot of victims.I know you saw that one coming. After his handlers realized the impact of this photo and the resulting "Bush don't care about Black folk" rhetoric, you kin betchur booty that they told him to git on down there and hug some black folk right quick! Lights... camera...now HUG!!

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

memyselfI
09-05-2005, 07:37 PM
I'm still waiting to read the joke DUHbya told about his 'younger days in Houston' en route to N/O. I guess the press corps was not amused.

Also, I think if anyone has a photo of him on the golf course on Tuesday they could make a small fortune selling it.

memyselfI
09-05-2005, 07:38 PM
I know you saw that one coming. After his handlers realized the impact of this photo and the resulting "Bush don't care about Black folk" rhetoric, you kin betchur booty that they told him to git on down there and hug some black folk right quick! Lights... camera...now HUG!!

http://blogs.salon.com/0001444/images/2005/08/31/Bush%20Plays%20A%20Chord.jpg

I'm wondering why he didn't visit the black folks IN N/O? Perhaps at the convention center or Superdome? :hmmm: :p

Electric
09-05-2005, 07:41 PM
How was it Bush's fault?

I know many on the left want to tie Bush to the disaster in New Orleans as well as the initial response to the lawlessness and rescue efforts. But isn't it a fact that Governor Blanco had a very short window before things got really bad to federalize the situation and did not? Didn't local authorities need to request federal action to assist in the evacuation? Didn't that request come after the city's infrastructure was decimated? Wasn't it Mayor Ray Nagin's decision not to stop looting in favor of rescue efforts (thereby adding a completely different problem to the equation)? Why do liberals blame Bush for not unilaterally declaring federal marshall law when I've read countless times over the past couple years from countless DU dorks that Bush should be stopped from exercising some ominous design to instill marshall law?

The New Orleans government? Please. I spoke with a friend who was with Mayor Nagin the day before the storm hit. You'd flip if you heard what he was doing instead of getting the citizens of New Orleans out of harm's way.

It wasn't, but what can you do? Sombody's gotta be blamed and the liberals will blame Bush at every turn. Doesn't matter what the situation. When the next president takes office Bush will still be blamed for the following four years. Watch and see.

Logical
09-05-2005, 07:49 PM
I'm wondering why he didn't visit the black folks IN N/O? Perhaps at the convention center or Superdome? :hmmm: :pThat's easy, you cannot trust an idiot in a boat not to fall out and drown. The Secret Service could not let him go to the Superdome.

memyselfI
09-05-2005, 07:52 PM
That's easy, you cannot trust an idiot in a boat not to fall out and drown. The Secret Service could not let him go to the Superdome.

I know, I was being facetious.

But I hadn't considered your first point. You are probably right. :hmmm: :clap: ROFL

Mr. Laz
09-05-2005, 07:52 PM
It wasn't, but what can you do? Sombody's gotta be blamed and the liberals will blame Bush at every turn. Doesn't matter what the situation. When the next president takes office Bush will still be blamed for the following four years. Watch and see.

welcome back

mlyonsd
09-05-2005, 07:55 PM
That's easy, you cannot trust an idiot in a boat not to fall out and drown. The Secret Service could not let him go to the Superdome.

Congratulations, you have now reached troll status.

Ugly Duck
09-05-2005, 08:33 PM
I'm wondering why he didn't visit the black folks IN N/O? Perhaps at the convention center or Superdome? :hmmm: :pI think it was Mississippi, but you can't really tell from the photos. I guess it don't matter much as long as they're black and he hugs one of 'em in front of the camera. You can see the video on Faux News - they keep replaying it over and over again.

Electric
09-05-2005, 08:36 PM
welcome back

Whatever.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:37 PM
Congratulations, you have now reached troll status.If you cannot tell that was meant as a sarcastic overstatement then put me on iggy. Hell even DEnise realized it was sarcasm.

memyselfI
09-05-2005, 08:38 PM
I think it was Mississippi, but you can't really tell from the photos. I guess it don't matter much as long as they're black and he hugs one of 'em in front of the camera. You can see the video on Faux News - they keep replaying it over and over again.

I believe you are right. We'll probably find out that he discovered and hugged one of the few black families in Trent Lott's demolished neighborhood. ;) :p

memyselfI
09-05-2005, 08:42 PM
If you cannot tell that was meant as a sarcastic overstatement then put me on iggy. Hell even DEnise realized it was sarcasm.

They are understanably testy. I wouldn't want the task of trying to blame poor and old people for not having the ability to leave. Or trying to shift the focus of failure in a NATIONAL disaster to the local and state level.

Mr. Laz
09-05-2005, 09:17 PM
Whatever.
i take it that all those emails and phones calls to your congressmen didn't work out?


sorry to hear it

Electric
09-06-2005, 03:41 AM
i take it that all those emails and phones calls to your congressmen didn't work out?


sorry to hear it

Actually I've written three letters in the past month and each one of them are being supported by my congressmen/senators. None of them are issues I conceived, but support.

How many issues have you supported or not supported via communication with your lawmakers? ZERO, gee....why does that not surprise me?

Electric
09-06-2005, 03:43 AM
They are understanably testy. I wouldn't want the task of trying to blame poor and old people for not having the ability to leave. Or trying to shift the focus of failure in a NATIONAL disaster to the local and state level.

On the contrary, it is you that has shifted the disaster to the national level. The original state and local governments caused the federal government to take a hand in the situation. You fail to see that aspect due to your agenda.

Chief Henry
09-06-2005, 10:32 AM
On the contrary, it is you that has shifted the disaster to the national level. The original state and local governments caused the federal government to take a hand in the situation. You fail to see that aspect due to your agenda.



Electric, clear your Private messages out

The Mad Crapper
07-05-2010, 09:41 PM
more fiddling while shit burns type stuff:



They got that pipe plugged yet?

You friggin' moron.

The Mad Crapper
07-06-2010, 10:28 AM
http://www.moonbattery.com/NightlineRevisited.jpg

boogblaster
07-06-2010, 11:11 AM
Bush was the worst puppet ever put into office ......

The Mad Crapper
07-06-2010, 02:37 PM
Barack Hussein Obama!

Mmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

http://thepeoplescube.com/images/Obama_Coin_ExactChange_160.gif

Hopey Change™