PDA

View Full Version : Personal Responsibility vs Credit Card Companies


Logical
09-05-2005, 08:24 PM
I say that these companies are abusing the system by sucking in our young, who don't really understand personal finance issues, let alone lifetime credit ratings. Yes you can influence your children to be financially responsible but some people actually have what seems to be an addiction to spending (my former wife certainly was that way and I guarantee she did not learn if from her parents).

Sending these credit cards to the young people between 16 and 21 just because their parents have good ratings are unfair to these young adults. They need to earn there credit rating. This is almost as bad as tobacco companies luring in minors.

Electric
09-05-2005, 08:27 PM
I say that these companies are abusing the system by sucking in our young, who don't really understand personal finance issues, let alone lifetime credit ratings. Yes you can influence your children to be financially responsible but some people actually have what seems to be an addiction to spending (my former wife certainly was that way and I guarantee she did not learn if from her parents).

Sending these credit cards to the young people between 16 and 21 just because their parents have good ratings are unfair to these young adults. They need to earn there credit rating. This is almost as bad as tobacco companies luring in minors.

When was the last time they "sent" credit cards to people between 16 and 21? Quite a few years ago that practice was stopped and now they send applications out pretty freely. You have to fill it out and send it in, that puts more of the blame on the individual. The credit card companies issuing cards to those that young should have their heads examined, but they are not the only ones at fault.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:29 PM
When was the last time they "sent" credit cards to people between 16 and 21? Quite a few years ago that practice was stopped and now they send applications out pretty freely. You have to fill it out and send it in, that puts more of the blame on the individual. The credit card companies issuing cards to those that young should have their heads examined, but they are not the only ones at fault.They have been sending preapproved applications to all three of my kids since they were 16, almost everyone of my coworkers is or has experienced the same thing.

Darkwolfe
09-05-2005, 08:31 PM
Where did that come from???

Not that I can argue your statement at all, because it is quite true. I bombed pretty badly with credit cards myself in my early 20s. However I learned from it too.

Rule #1. Never make the minimum payment. Pay four or five times that amount every month.

Rule #2. Make several payments a month if possible. Throw $20-$30 a paycheck at it.

Rule #3. If you use it like cash, it'll keep you from nibbling out of the vending machines at work, cause you won't have any loose change in your pocket. Some bonehead steals your wallet, you can call the CC company immediately and keep your liability down to $50 or so. If you had cash in it, it's gone.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:40 PM
Where did that come from???

Not that I can argue your statement at all, because it is quite true. I bombed pretty badly with credit cards myself in my early 20s. However I learned from it too.

Rule #1. Never make the minimum payment. Pay four or five times that amount every month.

Rule #2. Make several payments a month if possible. Throw $20-$30 a paycheck at it.

Rule #3. If you use it like cash, it'll keep you from nibbling out of the vending machines at work, cause you won't have any loose change in your pocket. Some bonehead steals your wallet, you can call the CC company immediately and keep your liability down to $50 or so. If you had cash in it, it's gone.

It came from my thread on bankruptcy being headed for a diversion. So I created a thread on the diversionary topic instead.

Good policies to live by, by the way. Even better is never charge more in one month than you can pay off in the next billing cycle.

Electric
09-05-2005, 08:40 PM
They have been sending preapproved applications to all three of my kids since they were 16, almost everyone of my coworkers is or has experienced the same thing.

How many times has your kids filled out the form and sent them in? If they have no income most times they are rejected. Some are rejected if they do not meet the minimum income standards.

Kids with credit cards (under 18) should be supervised or trained how and why to use them. Too many ma's and pa's give the kids the cards and then pay the bills for them, now that's a real lesson in life. Let mama and daddy pay the bills.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:44 PM
How many times has your kids filled out the form and sent them in? If they have no income most times they are rejected. Some are rejected if they do not meet the minimum income standards.

Kids with credit cards (under 18) should be supervised or trained how and why to use them. Too many ma's and pa's give the kids the cards and then pay the bills for them, now that's a real lesson in life. Let mama and daddy pay the bills.All of them have had or currently have approved credit cards. My oldest messed up with hers I bailed her out, made her pay me back and made her promise not to accept anymore. When we tore up her card she had built up 5K in debt and had a 10K credit limit. Trust me when they say preapproved, they mean it. They may only give them a card with a 300 dollar limit but they will send them one.

Darkwolfe
09-05-2005, 08:44 PM
Good policies to live by, by the way. Even better is never charge more in one month than you can pay off in the next billing cycle.


Truth, but not always possible. Sometimes you are going to get stuck with something large, like a car repair, or a planned large purchase.

I tend to use mine for just about everything from gas to groceries. I don't carry my checkbook at all anymore.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:47 PM
Truth, but not always possible. Sometimes you are going to get stuck with something large, like a car repair, or a planned large purchase.

I tend to use mine for just about everything from gas to groceries. I don't carry my checkbook at all anymore. Just out of curiousity why not use one of those Bank Cards that draws against your checking account unless you exceed your account balance then it becomes credit? I must say I like that card sort of a super debit card.

Electric
09-05-2005, 08:49 PM
All of them have had or currently have approved credit cards. My oldest messed up with hers I bailed her out, made her pay me back and made her promise not to accept anymore. When we tore up her card she had built up 5K in debt and had a 10K credit limit. Trust me when they say preapproved, they mean it. They may only give them a card with a 300 dollar limit but they will send them one.

How did she get $5000 in debt with a $300 limit?

Electric
09-05-2005, 08:52 PM
Just out of curiousity why not use one of those Bank Cards that draws against your checking account unless you exceed your account balance then it becomes credit? I must say I like that card sort of a super debit card.

I have one of those, but something you must consider is that if you get out of control how will it affect your budget? My card is automatically cleared when the direct deposit is made. If I'm $4000 in the hole and my direct deposit is $3000, I'm still $1000 in the hole and paying interest, plus I have to use the card to pay my normal bills.

Credit without fiscal responsiblity is a disaster waiting to happen.

el borracho
09-05-2005, 08:53 PM
A couple of thougts:

1) I thought there were limits to legal contracts with minors. Aren't parents financially responsible for children under 18 and wouldn't the parents have to sign the application for their underage children to receive the credit card? If so, then it is the parents fault for co-signing on something that the kid is not ready for.

2) Kids have to grow the "f" up sometime- as a society we have determined that to be 18 (legal adult). If someone is not financially responsible at/ by 18, then they probably won't be by age 19 or 20, either. Getting in financial trouble isn't the end of the world as long as the person learns from the mistake and becomes financially responsible.

Otter
09-05-2005, 08:54 PM
My freshmen year in college I was given a $1,500 credit line through Citibank. My income was whatever my student loans brought in and a three day a week waitering job at Red Lobster and they were aware of my money intake.

I ran it up and it eventually went into a collection account.

Yeah, it was stupid on my part but WTF do you really know about that shit when your 20 years old.

The fault falls on both sides but I do agree CC companys exploit the situation.

Three more years till that blemish is off my credit record.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 08:55 PM
Even better is never charge more in one month than you can pay off in the next billing cycle.

Bingo. I always pay the full balance every month.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:56 PM
I have one of those, but something you must consider is that if you get out of control how will it affect your budget? My card is automatically cleared when the direct deposit is made. If I'm $4000 in the hole and my direct deposit is $3000, I'm still $1000 in the hole and paying interest, plus I have to use the card to pay my normal bills.

Credit without fiscal responsiblity is a disaster waiting to happen.Absolutely true. you still have to keep track of your account and do the right things financially. It is just really convenient to use that instead regular credit cards and always have to write a check to pay the bill. I rarely spend more than I have in my account (in fact I have a horrible habit of having far too much in my checking account, example currenly 11,000+) and just find it very convenient.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 08:57 PM
or a planned large purchase.

If it's planned... perhaps part of the plan should be making the purchase when you can afford it.

Logical
09-05-2005, 08:58 PM
How did she get $5000 in debt with a $300 limit? They raise the limit constantly as long as you make the minimum payments. She was responsible enough to be paying the minimums.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 08:58 PM
Just out of curiousity why not use one of those Bank Cards that draws against your checking account unless you exceed your account balance then it becomes credit? I must say I like that card sort of a super debit card.
I use my Discover more often than not for the cash back award. It's not much, but it's still free money.

If I need some cash, I'll use my debit card and get cash back. Though, more often than not I'll use an ATM. Lots of merchants will only give $20 or $40 cash back. I like to pull out at least $100 at a time.

Electric
09-05-2005, 09:01 PM
Absolutely true. you still have to keep track of your account and do the right things financially. It is just really convenient to use that instead regular credit cards and always have to write a check to pay the bill. I rarely spend more than I have in my account (in fact I have a horrible habit of having far too much in my checking account, example currenly 11,000+) and just find it very convenient.

I normally keep an adequate balance in the checking, not near what you have, I'd have that in a CD or something. My balance stays within my monthly budget for travel and expenses. Our family account will have substantially more available but still not too high. Even though CD's are only now climbing back up with their interest rates they have always been better than regular savings.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:01 PM
I use my Discover more often than not for the cash back award. It's not much, but it's still free money.

If I need some cash, I'll use my debit card and get cash back. Though, more often than not I'll use an ATM. Lots of merchants will only give $20 or $40 cash back. I like to pull out at least $100 at a time. Actually I usually try to keep between 100 and 300 in the billfold and usually pull 300 from the ATM if I am getting close to or below the 100 minimum.

Electric
09-05-2005, 09:02 PM
They raise the limit constantly as long as you make the minimum payments. She was responsible enough to be paying the minimums.

When my son was dealing with that issue we made sure his limit was capped.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 09:02 PM
(in fact I have a horrible habit of having far too much in my checking account, example currenly 11,000+)

Heh... I remember once depositing a check and the teller advised me to open a savings account because I had so much money in my checking account. The deposit I made put me right about $4,000. I tried to tell her that wasn't really all that much money, but she disagreed. Heck, I knew that in the next two weeks I was going to write checks that totalled more than that amount.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:02 PM
I normally keep an adequate balance in the checking, not near what you have, I'd have that in a CD or something. My balance stays within my monthly budget for travel and expenses. Our family account will have substantially more available but still not too high. Even though CD's are only now climbing back up with their interest rates they have always been better than regular savings.Trust me I know it is horrible having that much in my checking account, just laziness really. I do earn like 1.5% on it but still that is nonsense.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 09:03 PM
They raise the limit constantly as long as you make the minimum payments. She was responsible enough to be paying the minimums.
None of my cards have had the limit raised in a long time. I remember for the first couple years it seemed like they raised it all the time. Guess they figured out that it wasn't enticing me to carry a balance and gave up on that strategy.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:04 PM
When my son was dealing with that issue we made sure his limit was capped.That is an excellent idea. My kids are now all adults so it does not apply anymore as I can have no input.

Miles
09-05-2005, 09:06 PM
None of my cards have had the limit raised in a long time. I remember for the first couple years it seemed like they raised it all the time. Guess they figured out that it wasn't enticing me to carry a balance and gave up on that strategy.

Yeah thats probably it. Credit card companies dont make anything off people that pay their balance off.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 09:07 PM
Yeah thats probably it. Credit card companies dont make anything off people that pay their balance off.
Not true. Every time I make a purchase the merchant has to pay them a percentage.

They're just not making as much off of me as they would be if I also paid interest.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:07 PM
None of my cards have had the limit raised in a long time. I remember for the first couple years it seemed like they raised it all the time. Guess they figured out that it wasn't enticing me to carry a balance and gave up on that strategy.LOL I only wish that was true for me. Every once in awhile I have to close an account because they push the limit too high. The worst was when my Mastercard had a 50K limit. I am about to close my current Visa because they just raised it to 33K. Now I never ever pay interest and I sure never charge even close to 10K so I have no idea why these companies keep doing this, I am going to check into that capping the limit that Electric was talking about. I did not know you could do that.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 09:08 PM
LOL I only wish that was true for me. Every once in awhile I have to close an account because they push the limit too high. The worst was when my Mastercard had a 50K limit. I am about to close my current Visa because they just raised it to 33K. Now I never ever pay interest and I sure never charge even close to 10K so I have no idea why these companies keep doing this, I am going to check into that capping the limit that Electric was talking about. I did not know you could do that.
Why do you close it when the limit gets too high?

Miles
09-05-2005, 09:10 PM
Not true. Every time I make a purchase the merchant has to pay them a percentage.

They're just not making as much off of me as they would be if I also paid interest.

I think most of the percentage they take at sale is offset by the cost of operating the system/network. At least thats what one of my professors said.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:11 PM
Why do you close it when the limit gets too high?I know that if you report it you are only responsible for a limited amount as long as you report the loss, but I just hate to think what could happen if I just misplaced a card and did not realize it. Not good.

Electric
09-05-2005, 09:12 PM
LOL I only wish that was true for me. Every once in awhile I have to close an account because they push the limit too high. The worst was when my Mastercard had a 50K limit. I am about to close my current Visa because they just raised it to 33K. Now I never ever pay interest and I sure never charge even close to 10K so I have no idea why these companies keep doing this, I am going to check into that capping the limit that Electric was talking about. I did not know you could do that.

Call the bank holding your credit card and tell them you want a $5000 limit with no automatic bumps. It worked for me on more than one occasion. I have my cards setup like that.

ENDelt260
09-05-2005, 09:13 PM
I know that if you report it you are only responsible for a limited amount as long as you report the loss, but I just hate to think what could happen if I just misplaced a card and did not realize it. Not good.
Heh... for some reason theft didn't even enter my mind.

Miles
09-05-2005, 09:16 PM
I know that if you report it you are only responsible for a limited amount as long as you report the loss, but I just hate to think what could happen if I just misplaced a card and did not realize it. Not good.

The loss would still be capped at $50 by federal law even if you didnt report it right away. The buyer protection on credit cards in heavily in favor of the consumer.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:20 PM
The loss would still be capped at $50 by federal law even if you didnt report it right away. The buyer protection on credit cards in heavily in favor of the consumer.

Do you know that as an absolute fact? Why do they have all these adds about identity theft/credit fraud if that is the case?

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:21 PM
Call the bank holding your credit card and tell them you want a $5000 limit with no automatic bumps. It worked for me on more than one occasion. I have my cards setup like that.I will do that, though I probably will set it a little higher as I have my mortgage on autopay and don't want to mess that up.

jaglow
09-05-2005, 09:33 PM
A couple of thougts:

1) I thought there were limits to legal contracts with minors. Aren't parents financially responsible for children under 18 and wouldn't the parents have to sign the application for their underage children to receive the credit card? If so, then it is the parents fault for co-signing on something that the kid is not ready for.

2) Kids have to grow the "f" up sometime- as a society we have determined that to be 18 (legal adult). If someone is not financially responsible at/ by 18, then they probably won't be by age 19 or 20, either. Getting in financial trouble isn't the end of the world as long as the person learns from the mistake and becomes financially responsible.

In regards to your first thought, I'm pretty sure that it is against the law for anyone under the age of 18 to enter into a contract, so if a parent doesn't co-sign, the credit card would not have legal recourse to collect.

I think personal responsibility is just something someone is born with or learns through tough lessons of life. No one taught me how to balance a checkbook or live on a budget; it was something that came naturally. My parents were flakes and couldn’t even keep a checking account (after so many bad checks, you get blacklisted). I do think it's odd that in most high schools today there aren't really any personal finance classes. Hell, in Jr. High I was required to take a shop and home ek (sp?), you'd think the schools would try and squeeze this in somewhere.

Miles
09-05-2005, 09:34 PM
Do you know that as an absolute fact? Why do they have all these adds about identity theft/credit fraud if that is the case?


Its in TILA Sec. 133. I dont want to say its an absolute fact though since I havent figure a good way to find it on google. Lots of random stuff comes up on a search.

I just speculating but i figure all the identity theft protection is mostly to prevent losses by the banks. It also protects the consumer from having to deal with unauthorized use.

Logical
09-05-2005, 09:44 PM
Its in TILA Sec. 133. I dont want to say its an absolute fact though since I havent figure a good way to find it on google. Lots of random stuff comes up on a search.

I just speculating but i figure all the identity theft protection is mostly to prevent losses by the banks. It also protects the consumer from having to deal with unauthorized use.Thanks for the info

Iowanian
09-05-2005, 09:48 PM
The ONLY person responsible for Credit Card debt....is the irresponsible person, who has the Cashier routinely swipe it for shit that he/she can't afford.

trndobrd
09-05-2005, 10:14 PM
Credit Card companies are a giant tick on American society. Having said that, it is the consumer who can't control his spending habits, is ultimately to blame.

I got a card in College. After four years of 18% interest and $25 fees for being a day late, I paid it off and will never get another credit card. Either I can afford something or I can't.

If I have an "emergency" then I do without something else for a while. Having three maxed out cards won't do most people much good in an emergency anyway.

Logical
09-05-2005, 11:03 PM
The ONLY person responsible for Credit Card debt....is the irresponsible person, who has the Cashier routinely swipe it for shit that he/she can't afford.I disagre, used to be credit card companies did not issue cards to people with no credit history or bad credit, the companies were responsible along with the consumer. Now that is not true anymore and that is wrong.

KC Dan
09-05-2005, 11:11 PM
The ONLY person responsible for Credit Card debt....is the irresponsible person, who has the Cashier routinely swipe it for shit that he/she can't afford.
Definately agree! Jim, I am very surprised by your " disagre, used to be credit card companies did not issue cards to people with no credit history or bad credit, the companies were responsible along with the consumer. Now that is not true anymore and that is wrong." I see this response as what is the major problem with the American society today.
Too many people seem to not want to be responsible for their actions anymore. And, on top of that there are too many apologists in our world, who are more than willing to point the finger at others to excuse the responsible person's faults. Personal responsibility is and should always be taught to our young persons and demanded by all adults. Unfortunately, too many are more than willing to blame others instead of attacking real problems caused by inadequate parenting.

Jenny Gump
09-05-2005, 11:14 PM
Do you know that as an absolute fact? Why do they have all these adds about identity theft/credit fraud if that is the case?

I tried to steal your identity, but they said I "looked nothing like a Vlad".

chief99
09-05-2005, 11:16 PM
Credit cards are like loan sharks. PBS had an awesome show on them. They are unbelievably shrewd. The card co.'s hate people that pay on time. They LOVE people that people that are sucked into their system of high rates and can't pay back. They make most of their money on those people.

So I ask this. What happened to CHECKS ?? The Card co.'s have probably rigged the system to their advantage. No one accepts checks anymore because of fraud.

There is a place for credit but NOT FOR LOAN SHARKS.

Oh yeah. Those card co's have tremendous power over congress. Laws intended to help out consumers from their slight of hand have been excorcised.

chief99
09-05-2005, 11:23 PM
Vlad . Frontline agrees with you. It's a dangerous system for certain people.

Awesome show. Should have won some awards.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/


6 dirty secrets of CC companies.
http://credit.about.com/od/creditanddebitcards/a/022305.htm

Logical
09-05-2005, 11:23 PM
I tried to steal your identity, but they said I "looked nothing like a Vlad".
ROFL:clap:

Miles
09-05-2005, 11:27 PM
Vlad . Frontline agrees with you. It's a dangerous system for certain people.

Awesome show. Should have won some awards.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/

Yeah that was really interesting and informative. Pretty cool they have it online.

Logical
09-05-2005, 11:29 PM
Definately agree! Jim, I am very surprised by your " disagre, used to be credit card companies did not issue cards to people with no credit history or bad credit, the companies were responsible along with the consumer. Now that is not true anymore and that is wrong." I see this response as what is the major problem with the American society today.
Too many people seem to not want to be responsible for their actions anymore. And, on top of that there are too many apologists in our world, who are more than willing to point the finger at others to excuse the responsible person's faults. Personal responsibility is and should always be taught to our young persons and demanded by all adults. Unfortunately, too many are more than willing to blame others instead of attacking real problems caused by inadequate parenting.That is BS, targeting credit to a part of society that is too young to understand it, is an irresponsible business practice and if necessary should be regulated by the Feds. I am not saying the debt should be forgiven but bankruptcy should not be forced upon someone that did not have a worthy credit history to receive that CC in the first place. Interest in such a situation should be automatically set at prime + 1 and the person should be allowed to pay off his/her credit card debt while not being allowed any new credit card debt. If a Credit Card company then extends further credit to these individuals it should be at the Credit Card companies risk (stupidity in business should cause penalties for the business).

Valiant
09-05-2005, 11:38 PM
I would put 95% on the kid and parent, and the other on the company... All companies try and get money from the client/customer, do we blame them the same??? no.... If your body does not have the common sense or your parents have the common sense to teach you responsibility then its your own fault...

People always try to come up with another reason for the failings except for themself... Its like smoking, is having fire and smoke in my lungs bad for me???

KC Dan
09-05-2005, 11:39 PM
That is BS, targeting credit to a part of society that is too young to understand it, is an irresponsible business practice and if necessary should be regulated by the Feds. I am not saying the debt should be forgiven but bankruptcy should not be forced upon someone that did not have a worthy credit history to receive that CC in the first place. Interest in such a situation should be automatically set at prime + 1 and the person should be allowed to pay off his/her credit card debt while not being allowed any new credit card debt. If a Credit Card company then extends further credit to these individuals it should be at the Credit Card companies risk (stupidity in business should cause penalties for the business).
I could be mistaken but I don't believe that it is legal for a CC company to send a credit card signed, sealed and delivered to a minor. The minor or any adult still would have to apply, receive a card and activate it. Now, personally I think that it should be ILLEGAL for a CC company to issue credit to a minor just like selling alcohol is illegal for store or bar owners but parents should still parent and educate their children on what the debt world is all about and how to navigate it. I am having a tough time with this one because my instincts say that if you charge something - you have to be made responsible. Minors though??? Forgiving their debt, blaming it on CC companies under current law just seems wrong. But, that is just me I guess.

|Zach|
09-06-2005, 12:11 AM
It is a big problem on campus, I have not touched one.

The Bad Guy
09-06-2005, 12:51 AM
I was stupid when I received my first card at 18, had about 2 grand in CC debt at about 22 and paid it off in full almost 2 years ago.

Now, I charge pretty much everything, but I pay it off every cycle too. CC companies aren't getting another dime of my money. I figure, I use their cash for 30 days and let mine sit in the bank for that extra time as well.

I get wonderful offers now like zero % on balance transfers and purchases for a year, so I just use their money.

The key to credit card success is using their money instead of them using yours.

trndobrd
09-06-2005, 01:38 AM
So I ask this. What happened to CHECKS ?? The Card co.'s have probably rigged the system to their advantage. No one accepts checks anymore because of fraud.




Bank / debit cards! I have used mine exclusively for the last ten years. I can use it anyplace Visa is accepted. The money is automatically deducted from my account, if I have it. If I don't have the money, then I don't make the purchase.

Pants
09-06-2005, 02:51 AM
Damn, never had any problem with my CC's. My dad explained to me how they basically work and what not to do... I listened, never had a problem. And like I said in the other thread, the only time you can pay just the minimum payment is if you have a 0% APR until a certain date. I just keep mine well under the limit, always ready to repay the whole thing. It's nice to be able to pay for the textbooks knowing that your next paycheck will pay them off.

penchief
09-06-2005, 05:30 AM
The credit card companies are predators. Period.

They exemplify the corporate culture that dominates American society today. Holding people hostage, Gouging them, and ripping them off is the name of the game these days. Fairness is not practiced anymore. Because they can get away with just about anything they do just about anything they can to bleed the consumer.

The oil, energy, pharmaceutical, insurance, phone, and banking/credit card industries all practice policies designed to maximize profit unfairly at the expense of the consumer. The oil, energy, and insurance companies hold us hostage while the credit card, phone, and pharmaceutical companies employ predatory practices. They all gouge us because they can.

It bugs the hell out of me that credit card companies freely give millions of 18 year old college students a credit card without batting an eye, charge 25% interest and then double-dip by charging anywhere from $30 to $50 for a late fee. Most of the time the late fee is greater than the minimum payment. That practice is clearly by design. If they are going to use those who pay their bills late as justification for exorbitant interests rates how do they justify the obscene late fees? They're crooks, that's how.

There have been times in history when excessive usury charges have been illegal. The predatory practices of the credit card companies in America today and the acts of congress which abet them are a perfect example of why certain industries need regulated.

Several months ago I was asked by an elderly couple near me to contact the phone company for them because there were charges on their bill (some calling plan) that they did not ask for. It took me 45 minutes to talk to an operator. Making it worse was the fact that I had to figure out for myself how to get hold of an operator. Their menu intentionally does not offer the option to talk to a representative. I addressed this with them and they "took it under advisement." Four months later I had to repeat the process for them because the bogus charges showed up again. This time I knew how to contact a representative but I was on hold for a full hour. Again, I got the charges removed for them and again, I told them that it was unfair to the elderly that they did not give a menu option to speak to a representative.

This is practiced by many companies. I have to deal with a lot of them and their intent is to steer you with their menu options as opposed to you steering the direction of the call. The delays are intended to frustrate and when it deals with bogus charges they bank on a large percentage of people just giving up.

My company had two plans added to it's bill in the last 8 months that were bogus. I also detected a pattern of small bogus charges that were appearing on my phone bill. I sat back and watched it for a couple months to see if it were intentional. Sure enough, as long as I let it go they charged me for services that I knew I was not using. Then I thought about all of the people that don't detect these little charges (star69, etc.) or who can't prove the charges werent' incurred by them and it occurred to me how many millions of dollars every month these companies are stealing from unsuspecting customers nationwide.

The culture of our society is driven by corporate greed, IMO. The values of hard work, customer service, fair pricing, and respect for the working person that helped to build this country's economy and give us our strength has been replaced by speculation, maximizing profit at the expense of honesty and fairness, and bleeding people in the name of capitalism.

Credit card companies are gigantic leeches on the back of American society and need to be reined in. We need to restore the work ethic and the values of honesty and fairness to our business practices otherwise we are going to doom ourselves. At the very least, we will contiue to perpetuate the problem as our children learn from us.

JOhn
09-06-2005, 05:42 AM
Seems to me that Big business are just as much to blame and seem to encourage CC use.

I went to get DTV for my mom, and I can't get it because she doesn't have a CC or Debit card. I also no longer carry a debit card so I'm unable to get it fof her either. :banghead:

They require a CC or Debit to sign up for service, $20.00 fee, they will not even let you pay cash at the time of install. WTF?:shrug:

Brock
09-06-2005, 06:30 AM
The culture of our society is driven by corporate greed, IMO. The values of hard work, customer service, fair pricing, and respect for the working person that helped to build this country's economy and give us our strength has been replaced by speculation, maximizing profit at the expense of honesty and fairness, and bleeding people in the name of capitalism.

Credit card companies are gigantic leeches on the back of American society and need to be reined in. We need to restore the work ethic and the values of honesty and fairness to our business practices otherwise we are going to doom ourselves. At the very least, we will contiue to perpetuate the problem as our children learn from us.

The culture of our society is driven by people who buy things they can't afford, and some people want to blame credit cards for it. Brilliant.

I disagree with everything you just said. I have had nothing less than stellar service from my credit card company. Every time I've ever bought anything with a credit card, and can't get satisfaction from the retailer, Citi has stepped up to the plate and made it right. Then again, I don't ask them to parent my children, so I'm not sure how good they are at that.

gblowfish
09-06-2005, 07:39 AM
The real danger is using them to live beyond your means. I have about four major cards, but use Discover whenever possible because I like the cash back stuff. Always pay them off in 30 days. Credit card interest will kill you every time.

Lzen
09-06-2005, 08:56 AM
Bank / debit cards! I have used mine exclusively for the last ten years. I can use it anyplace Visa is accepted. The money is automatically deducted from my account, if I have it. If I don't have the money, then I don't make the purchase.

This is pretty much what I do now. When I was in my early to mid 20s, my wife and I got sucked into the easy credit card and loans stuff . Eventually, we were up to our ears in debt. Yeah, it was irresponsible and we went to a credit counseling place to work out a payment plan to pay it all off. And we're just now getting out of that.

But it sure was easy to get that credit at the time and we didn't really understand how easy it was to get yourself in deeper and deeper. So, I think Vlad makes a good argument in that it's too easy for young and uneducated people to make these mistakes. I think at the very least, credit card companies should be required to hand out information pamphlets on how easy it is to get into CC debt.

Darkwolfe
09-06-2005, 10:10 AM
Just out of curiousity why not use one of those Bank Cards that draws against your checking account unless you exceed your account balance then it becomes credit? I must say I like that card sort of a super debit card.

Late answer... My bad.

Two words.. Account Separation.

Boils down to a "cover my arse" policy. Some twerp gets off with my credit card, my liability is limited and my primary funds have no interruptions. Say you have a check card and loose the thing leaving the bar one Friday night.. You realize the loss the next afternoon. By the time you can call your bank on Monday, you got nada in the account.

Simple, but very workable.

kepp
09-06-2005, 10:10 AM
Some interesting points here. I agree with certain points of each side.

From my point of view, CC companies targetting minors is definitely a predatory business practice that is, IMO, sleazy. However, predators emerge because there are victims to be had and (again, IMO) those victims are created when parents fail to teach their kids financial responsibility.

My parents didn't teach me and when Citibank sent me my first $300-limit CC when I was 18, I had it filled up probably within a month and it just got worse from their. It took a while to get out of that hole. I plan on teaching my kids how to handle their finances so they can avoid my mistakes.