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View Full Version : The Jets and their over-rated defense.


jspchief
09-06-2005, 09:53 AM
Sorry to take away from all the other stuff to talk football, but I thought I's shed some light on this week's opponent.

The Jets defensive ranking from last year is inflated by the poor quality of offenses they faced.

1. Only 5 of the games they played were vs top 10 offenses, the best being #6 St Louis, who dropped 32 on them.
2. 8 of their games were vs offenses ranked 25th or lower.

They did a good job taking the ball away, but how much of that had to do with the quality of teams they faced?

Personally, I think we score 30+ on them. The question is how many they score on us.

StcChief
09-06-2005, 10:24 AM
I was wondering about that too. Who had they beat last year.

We hang 30+ on Jets.

Pennington is in for a rude awakening at Arrowhead for his first and probably last appearance (6 years till we would see him at Arrowhead as a Jet).

They probably score 17-20.

Lzen
09-06-2005, 10:24 AM
Hmmm, that's interesting. Didn't realize that. Good stuff to know. The Jets could end up being like the 04 Chiefs and drop off quite a bit with a tougher schedule. I think we'll score at least 24 on them. ;)

Chief Henry
09-06-2005, 10:26 AM
I like it...

jspchief
09-06-2005, 10:35 AM
Hmmm, that's interesting. Didn't realize that. Good stuff to know. The Jets could end up being like the 04 Chiefs and drop off quite a bit with a tougher schedule. I think we'll score at least 24 on them. ;)I don't know how much tougher their schedule is this year, but they are like the '03 Chiefs in that a weak schedule helped their W/L record.

It helps to play Miami twice, not to mention Buffalo who's O has been dismal. They also got SF, CLE, AZ, and BAL. Not exactly high powered offenses there.

Cochise
09-06-2005, 10:38 AM
Well, it's not NYJs' fault they had to play 8 teams that weren't very good on offense. You can only beat the teams on your schedule.

You can't doubt Abraham's talent, or that of Vilma, those two are probably as good as there is anywhere. their secondary is pretty good as well. I think they have a top 1/3 of the league defense. I dont remember anyone saying they were top 5 or anything, so I don't think they are too overrated. It's a good unit.

But, that being said, since this offense has been in place even against very good defenses, we've still managed to put together points. Our offense handled the Ravens' D effectively last year. We put 56 on Atlanta. There haven't been many games in the last couple of years where the offense has sputtered for more than a quarter.

Some days there have been slow starts, but particuarly after halftime, it seems adjustments are in place and they start to take over. I think if you looked at Green's 4th quarter QB rating it would consistently be at or near the top.

I'm not worried about scoring points. My main concerns are how our second corner handles their #2 receiver (can be shadowed with a safety, with proper gameplanning this should not be a killer) and our pass rush.

I think if we get a pass rush, we win without it being too hair-raising. If we aren't getting that push, it will likely turn into a shootout. I like our chances in a shootout anyway.

Give me KC in the neighborhood of 27-17

David.
09-06-2005, 10:38 AM
Yeah, they're defense doesn't scare me at all. I'm more worried about Mcleon then anything the jets have.

StcChief
09-06-2005, 10:55 AM
Their schedule with weak NFCW teams, Miami, Cle will give them a Wild card most likley.
9-7 by my guess-amate.

September 11th at Kansas City L


September 18th MIAMI W


September 25th JACKSONVILLE W


October 2nd at Baltimore L



October 9th TAMPA BAY W


October 16th at Buffalo W



October 24th at Atlanta L



October 30th BYE



November 6th SAN DIEGO L



November 13th at Carolina L



November 20th at Denver W



November 27th NEW ORLEANS W



December 4th at New England L



December 11th OAKLAND W



December 18th at Miami W



December 26th NEW ENGLAND L



January 1st BUFFALO W

Garcia Bronco
09-06-2005, 10:56 AM
I really don't understand the Jets hype machine that's going this pre-season...they'll fall on their asses like they normally do.

alanm
09-06-2005, 11:05 AM
I don't know about the rest of you guys but I kinda share the same concern that DV does. That being the top unit on offense. That it would have been better if they had more time on the field as a whole unit than they have had to date. Their either going to come out of the gate as a tuned up Ferrari or a sputtering Volkswagen. Hopefully the way they showed in the last 2 preseason games where they went right down the field on both Seattle and St. Louis.

jidar1
09-06-2005, 11:16 AM
I'm so used to the Chiefs being able to do anything they want offensively, that no defense scares me right now. The Offense always puts up points against everybody, so don't even mention the Jets Defense to me because it doesn't matter we're still gonna score.

The only thing that scares me is losing another close shootout because we can't stop their O, which is what kept happening last year. I'm hopefully optimistic given our improvements, but time will tell.

carlos3652
09-06-2005, 11:22 AM
Their schedule with weak NFCW teams, Miami, Cle will give them a Wild card most likley.
9-7 by my guess-amate.


October 16th at Buffalo W



November 20th at Denver W



I cant agree on these games, Denver will win @ Home and the Jets will not be able to beat the Bills Away... Im sure they can pull 8-8 but no better...

Chiefnj
09-06-2005, 11:25 AM
In recent years the Chiefs have a bad habit of losing to "beatable" teams. Last year - Jags and Texans and Bucs. Decent defenses, not as great offensively (just like the Jets). I think it will be a close game. Hopefully, it won't come down to Tynes' leg.

Amnorix
09-06-2005, 11:38 AM
The entire AFC East had a somewhat soft schedule last year. We faced the AFC North, which had one great team (Steelers), one very solid team (Ravens), and two teams with lots of weaknesses.

We also played the NFC West, which we all acknowledge was completely pathetic.

This year, we step up to the NFC South and the AFC West.

As a partial result of this, and other factors, I think EACH and EVERY AFC East team will have a WORSE record than it did last year, except maybe the woeful 'phins, who can't get much worse than what they posted last year.

Amnorix
09-06-2005, 11:40 AM
As a partial result of this, and other factors, I think EACH and EVERY AFC East team will have a WORSE record than it did last year, except maybe the woeful 'phins, who can't get much worse than what they posted last year.

Following up on this, it would be positively embarassing for the Colts to NOT win HFA throughout the playoffs this year. Their schedule is a gift from the Gods...

Cochise
09-06-2005, 11:42 AM
Following up on this, it would be positively embarassing for the Colts to NOT win HFA throughout the playoffs this year. Their schedule is a gift from the Gods...

I think this is their year. A little improvement on the defensive line might be all that they needed.

Dawson4004
09-06-2005, 11:42 AM
In recent years the Chiefs have a bad habit of losing to "beatable" teams. Last year - Jags and Texans and Bucs. Decent defenses, not as great offensively (just like the Jets). I think it will be a close game. Hopefully, it won't come down to Tynes' leg.

This is how I feel. If we are for real we should beat the Jets. Because they are beatable, espcially(sp) at home. I just dont see how they can stop our runnings game, I dont care how good Vilma is, we ran all over the Ravens last year so you can not tell me the Jets have a better run D then the Ravens. And that Vilma is better then Ray Lewis.

Amnorix
09-06-2005, 11:45 AM
I think this is their year. A little improvement on the defensive line might be all that they needed.

Compared to what they had, Simon is a run-stuffing monster of titanic proportions. Let me be perfectly clear, I'm REALLY not happy that they got that guy. REALLY, extremely unthrilled.

Amnorix
09-06-2005, 11:46 AM
This is how I feel. If we are for real we should beat the Jets. Because they are beatable, espcially(sp) at home. I just dont see how they can stop our runnings game, I dont care how good Vilma is, we ran all over the Ravens last year so you can not tell me the Jets have a better run D then the Ravens. And that Vilma is better then Ray Lewis.

I wouldn't say that, but Vilma is definitely the real deal, make no mistake.

jynni
09-06-2005, 12:00 PM
I think this is their year. A little improvement on the defensive line might be all that they needed.
Nah - It's their turn to be visited by the injury bug. They're just about one of the only teams left that haven't caught it yet.

Because there is a god, right? I mean he proved his existence when he allowed the Raiders to go to the Superbowl only to be humiliated and sent back to the NFL celler - right?

That's what I keep telling myself anyways...

Cmart28
09-06-2005, 12:09 PM
Sorry to take away from all the other stuff to talk football, but I thought I's shed some light on this week's opponent.

The Jets defensive ranking from last year is inflated by the poor quality of offenses they faced.

1. Only 5 of the games they played were vs top 10 offenses, the best being #6 St Louis, who dropped 32 on them.
2. 8 of their games were vs offenses ranked 25th or lower.

They did a good job taking the ball away, but how much of that had to do with the quality of teams they faced?

Personally, I think we score 30+ on them. The question is how many they score on us.

sorry jsp, but I have been reading this forum for a week or so now, and you seem to be the biggest homer on here. The Jets D had 8 second half shutouts last season, 8. How many 100 yard rushing games did we let up last season?? Only 2. The Jets D is definatly not over rated. This was all with Reggie Toung at SS (upgraded to Kerry Rhodes) and J-Abe on the bench the last 8 weeks. We have upgraded at LCB with Ty law and Jonathon Vilma is poised for another great season. Don't worry, you guys WERE the best 7-9 team in the NFL last year IMO :p . I am not a homer, I am very objectional but for anyone to say our defense is over rated just doesn't watch Jet football. Look foward to chatting a little with you guys the next week. :evil:

im out

jspchief
09-06-2005, 12:13 PM
sorry jsp, but I have been reading this forum for a week or so now, and you seem to be the biggest homer on here. The Jets D had 8 second half shutouts last season, 8. How many 100 yard rushing games did we let up last season?? Only 2. The Jets D is definatly not over rated. This was all with Reggie Toung at SS (upgraded to Kerry Rhodes) and J-Abe on the bench the last 8 weeks. We have upgraded at LCB with Ty law and Jonathon Vilma is poised for another great season. Don't worry, you guys WERE the best 7-9 team in the NFL last year IMO :p . I am not a homer, I am very objectional but for anyone to say our defense is over rated just doesn't watch Jet football. Look foward to chatting a little with you guys the next week. :evil:

im outAll very impressive stats. Until you look at the quality of teams you played.

It's a solid D, that takes the ball away. But last year's numbers are skewed by the fact that you played a lot of really lousy offenses.

And how am I a homer? What have I said about my team that makes you think that?

Frosty
09-06-2005, 12:18 PM
This was all with Reggie Toung at SS (upgraded to Kerry Rhodes)

I have a hard time believing a 4th round rookie, in his first ever start, is an upgrade over Tongue. Maybe eventually, but not week one.

Amnorix
09-06-2005, 12:21 PM
New York's defense 2004:

Rush defense:

3.6 yards per carry (4 way tie for 2nd best)
TDs allowed: 8 (5th best)
20+ yard carries: 7 (9th best)

Pass defense:

Completion % allowed: 58.1% (10th best)
TDs allowed: 21 (middle of the pack)
Sacks: 37 (in the 16-20 range)

Overall:

Scoring: 16.3 (4th best)
Takeaways: 33 (8th best)

Clearly a top 10 defense last year. As noted, the opposition may have been a little on the light side, but the defense was definely very solid last year.

But, it's a new year, and there's been turnover. Law is an improvement, but at the other 3 DB postiions you've got VERY young talent. We'll see if that hurts you or not.

cadmonkey
09-06-2005, 12:28 PM
But, but.........they have TY LAW!!!!!!!

Cmart28
09-06-2005, 12:30 PM
All very impressive stats. Until you look at the quality of teams you played.

It's a solid D, that takes the ball away. But last year's numbers are skewed by the fact that you played a lot of really lousy offenses.

And how am I a homer? What have I said about my team that makes you think that?


True, we didn't play an elite schedule last year. Those are the only stats I can throw at you. We face Corey Dillon, Domanick Davis, LaDanian Tomlinson (twice), Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley and Jamal Lewis and we let up 2 100 yard rushing games, I believe thats pretty impresive considering the calibur of HB we faced, especially facing SD and LT twice. I am just saying that if you guys dont get Preist going early and fail to run, don't think you're going up top on Law and Barrett. Also, keep in mind last year was Donnie Henderson's first year with the team. The players have become use to his aggresive playcalling and will gel better this year. I am by no means predicting a blowout, however, I do feel the NYJ have the better team and squeak out a tough one in Arrowhead. Should be interesting to see how Chad reacts in a tough environment. Also, no one seems to be mentioning how Curtis can run wild on your defense. Last year he had 150+ yards on Cincy on opening day. Blaylock will be a good change of pace too in the second half.

Bob Dole
09-06-2005, 12:35 PM
I am not a homer, I am very objectional but for anyone to say our defense is over rated just doesn't watch Jet football.

Your defense is over rated.

Piper
09-06-2005, 12:38 PM
Jets fan here.

Can't disagree with last year's opponents. What would be the point? It was also the first year with a new D-coordinator, so I gotta believe that the returning players are more comfortable with their roles.

I think this year will be alot like last year, where the D improves throughout the season due to the infusion of youth. Hopefully adding Law accelerates that process as he is the most likely upgrade.

One thing we can agree on (Chiefs/Jets fans) is on the other side of the ball. I can't wait to see anybody's offense except Paul Hackett.

I finally get to retire my Paul Hackett dartboard.

Cheers.

Cmart28
09-06-2005, 12:40 PM
Your defense is over rated.


Wow, very intelligent argument, did it give you a headache?? Back it up with stats, oh wait...you're trying to get your post status up. Good job, back it up...

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 12:40 PM
Everyone is so quick to put down the Jets offense but what you all don't realize is that the Jets single biggest offseason acquisition was a new offensive coordinator. The Jets already had a boatload of offensive talent, but between Chad's injuries and what was the single worst offensive coordinator in the league last season, the Jets offense underachieved badly. But you know what, even underachieving the Jets still finished with the 13th ranked offense in the league. Now that we have a new coordinator, a healthy Pennington, Coles back, and new weapons on offense for Chad to throw to, look out.

Why does all this matter? Here's why. The Chiefs no doubt are going to put up some monster points this week, like they do every week. Hell, they are the single best offseason in the league... on paper. But... if what I've been reading is true, your boys are having some problems. Is it true that three of your starting lineman, as well as your starting QB aren't doing so well at this point? If this is true then that's cause for concern. The Jets D is aggressive and will take advantage of a situation like that. Furthermore, the Jets offense vs. the Chiefs defense is a bigger mismatch then the Chiefs O (healthy) vs. the Jets D... advantage = JETS.

BTW, yes, the Jets played some putrid teams last season... but who do you think made them look so putrid statistically? Peace.

keg in kc
09-06-2005, 12:44 PM
Not much to be gained from basing anything on last year, but if we're going to do it, I don't think calling their defense over-rated is a real good tack to take. Have to respect what they did, and they were one of the best units in '04, no matter how you want to try and spin it.

Which doesn't mean we can't or won't score on them Sunday. I think we'll win pretty handily. I'm expecting a 27-24 type game, where the score is closer than the game, although I'd like to see something along the lines of 31-17. That's a tall order, though, I think, with two pretty good NFL teams on the field.

Warrior5
09-06-2005, 12:47 PM
This is how I feel. If we are for real we should beat the Jets.

No; if the Chiefs are for real they should destroy the Jets on Sunday.

Cmart28
09-06-2005, 12:50 PM
I have nothing against the Chiefs. Personally, I picked them to make the playoffs in a tough AFC this year. However, I see a slow start for them getting use to the new personel on D and from what I've heard the tough injuries they have to overcome early in the season. I see you guys starting 3-3, then going on a run and taking a Wild Card

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 12:50 PM
No; if the Chiefs are for real they should destroy the Jets on Sunday.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the Chiefs aren't going to destroy the Jets. Their defense isn't good enough, even with adding Surtain, Knight, and Bell, and on top of that, the Jets are much improved from a huge last season. Our number 5 defense only has one player older than 27 on the unit (Ty Law) and everyone with the exception of Rhodes is a year older and a year more savvy than before. The Jets downgraded at only one position on the entire team, and that was NT. Henderson isn't dumb, he'll know how to compensate for that. I expect the Chiefs to be running mad because passing to anyone other than Tony G. will be a mistake. Barrett will take out Kennison and Law will smother whoever your number 2 wideout is.

keg in kc
09-06-2005, 12:52 PM
I see you guys starting 3-3, then going on a run and taking a Wild CardThat's not outside the realm of possibility, with our schedule being as front-loaded as it is. I could see a rough start, then a run of good games into the playoffs. As long as the start isn't too rough. I don't think we can afford to start, say, 1-3.

Ikeyman3
09-06-2005, 12:52 PM
As a Jet fan our Defense is no "overrated". No one is comparing us to the 75 Steelers, or the 00 Ravens. We are a solid top 1/3 of the NFLO caliber D with young talent in the front 7. With Abraham and Ells at DE, we have 2 great pass rushers, with Dewane Robertson at DT he clogs the line and allows our young LB's to make tackles, Vilma was the DROY and E. BArton (who you know from OAK) was very underrated last year.

We had 7 2nd half shutouts last year and were 4th in PA. that is not overrated s. any NFL scheduele. If there is a ? it is our secondary. Is Law 100%? is Kerry Rhodes going to get burned as a rookie?

We have a solid D and that is what should keep us in games this year.

jynni
09-06-2005, 01:05 PM
The Jets already had a boatload of offensive talent, but between Chad's injuries and what was the single worst offensive coordinator in the league last season, the Jets offense underachieved badly.
Now we all know that's just not true. Jimmy Raye coached for the Raiders last year.

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 01:29 PM
Now we all know that's just not true. Jimmy Raye coached for the Raiders last year.

Jimmy Raye was working for Paul Hackett before he got the job with the Raiders. You can see the lineage.

Cmart28
09-06-2005, 01:29 PM
Now we all know that's just not true. Jimmy Raye coached for the Raiders last year.


Hackett had a lot more talent to work with than Raye

Rain Man
09-06-2005, 01:44 PM
Wow, very intelligent argument, did it give you a headache?? Back it up with stats, oh wait...you're trying to get your post status up. Good job, back it up...


You have to read between the lines on bobzen's posts. Relax and let your mind rise out of your body, and envision his words floating before you on a lake.

the Talking Can
09-06-2005, 01:45 PM
As a Jet fan our Defense is no "overrated". No one is comparing us to the 75 Steelers, or the 00 Ravens. We are a solid top 1/3 of the NFLO caliber D with young talent in the front 7. With Abraham and Ells at DE, we have 2 great pass rushers, with Dewane Robertson at DT he clogs the line and allows our young LB's to make tackles, Vilma was the DROY and E. BArton (who you know from OAK) was very underrated last year.


I'd agree with this.

But know that our offense has made the best of them look foolish...my main concern (besides our D, of course) is Trent who usually "warms up" as the season progresses and isn't as sharp in the first couple of games...

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 01:50 PM
And what of these reports that the Chiefs O-Line has looked old in the preseason? And also Trent's foot problem? Are they going to be factors come week 1?

Cmart28
09-06-2005, 01:57 PM
You have to read between the lines on bobzen's posts. Relax and let your mind rise out of your body, and envision his words floating before you on a lake.


ROFL ROFL :clap: :clap: :LOL: :toast: :bong: :bong: :holdman: :Peace: :rockon: :BLVD:

jspchief
09-06-2005, 02:02 PM
And what of these reports that the Chiefs O-Line has looked old in the preseason? And also Trent's foot problem? Are they going to be factors come week 1?Willie Roaf looked old 3 years ago when New orleans dumped him. It hasn't stopped him from being a pro-bowl tackle for KC.

And Green will get the circulation going in his foot by sticking it in the ass of the Jets defense.

vailpass
09-06-2005, 02:07 PM
Sorry to take away from all the other stuff to talk football, but I thought I's shed some light on this week's opponent.

The Jets defensive ranking from last year is inflated by the poor quality of offenses they faced...

Personally, I think we score 30+ on them. The question is how many they score on us.

I took the Jet's D in my fnatasy draft. They have a D-line that will force teams to go outside or downfield and so can funnel stops and turnovers.

Overated? Statistics say otherwise. We'll all know a lot more next Sunday night once the game has been played.

tk13
09-06-2005, 02:11 PM
I actually like their defense. I said early in the offseason that I thought we could take their approach to turning the D around last year. I don't think they're the best, but they're top 10 caliber. I think their front 7 is underrated, and they have a star at each level of defense... Abraham/Vilma/Law, I thought they deserved more credit than they got.

That said, it's week one, and we still can score on them. Al traditionally has a pretty good game plan in Week 1, and I'm not sure they'll be able to stop our running game. They did allow around 30 points to the Rams and Chargers last year, two of the elite offenses they faced. I'm more worried about us stopping them at this point.

Lzen
09-06-2005, 02:12 PM
Barrett will take out Kennison and Law will smother whoever your number 2 wideout is.

Wow, and Jets fans call Chiefs fans homers.
:rolleyes:

Bob Dole
09-06-2005, 02:13 PM
Wow, very intelligent argument, did it give you a headache?? Back it up with stats, oh wait...you're trying to get your post status up. Good job, back it up...

Actually, Bob Dole's head is fairly clear and pain-free for a change.

Thanks for your concern!

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 02:17 PM
Wow, and Jets fans call Chiefs fans homers.
:rolleyes:

Before Barrett came to the Jets he was constantly matching up with Torry Holt/Isaac Bruce, Darrell Jackson/Koren Robinson, and Terrell Owens... because he was a Cardinal he was practically unknown. Barrett had a stellar season last year, especially towards the end. What in hell should give me reason to believe he can't shut down your number one receiver, Eddie Kennison?

The reason I pin Law on your #2, Parker, is because he's not up to full speed yet, and won't even be in the game for every single play. Once Law is 100% he'll be on the #1s, but for now, that's Barrett's job, and Barrett vs. Kennison doesn't concern me in the slightest way as a Jets fan.

My concern is Tony G. vs. Kerry Rhodes. And that is legitimate. Your wideouts vs. our corners though, no question we've got the advantage.

Lzen
09-06-2005, 02:18 PM
And what of these reports that the Chiefs O-Line has looked old in the preseason? And also Trent's foot problem? Are they going to be factors come week 1?

What reports? I haven't heard of any such reports. The Chiefs first stringers on both sides of the ball have looked good in the preseason with the exception of the first game (Vikings). The only concern would maybe be that they haven't really played much in the preseason. But that shouldn't be much of a problem, IMO, because this offense(for the most part) has been together for the past 3 years.

Cochise
09-06-2005, 02:20 PM
Before Barrett came to the Jets he was constantly matching up with Torry Holt/Isaac Bruce, Darrell Jackson/Koren Robinson, and Terrell Owens... because he was a Cardinal he was practically unknown. Barrett had a stellar season last year, especially towards the end. What in hell should give me reason to believe he can't shut down your number one receiver, Eddie Kennison?

Because our opponents' #1 corner is almost always covering Kennison, and he still put up 1000 yards and scored 8 TD last year.

He's not above average as #1's go but he's no chump.

Lzen
09-06-2005, 02:26 PM
Before Barrett came to the Jets he was constantly matching up with Torry Holt/Isaac Bruce, Darrell Jackson/Koren Robinson, and Terrell Owens... because he was a Cardinal he was practically unknown. Barrett had a stellar season last year, especially towards the end. What in hell should give me reason to believe he can't shut down your number one receiver, Eddie Kennison?

The reason I pin Law on your #2, Parker, is because he's not up to full speed yet, and won't even be in the game for every single play. Once Law is 100% he'll be on the #1s, but for now, that's Barrett's job, and Barrett vs. Kennison doesn't concern me in the slightest way as a Jets fan.

My concern is Tony G. vs. Kerry Rhodes. And that is legitimate. Your wideouts vs. our corners though, no question we've got the advantage.

You do realize that Kennison was a 1000 yard receiver last year, don't you? You mean to tell me that a 1000 yard receiver doesn't concern you in the least? To say that your CB will "shut down" Kennison is a little ridiculous.

I'll agree that Sammie Parker is young and unproven. But at the same time, and as you've admitted, Ty Law isn't up to full speed yet. Obviously, there is still a question about his foot or some team would've signed him long before mid/late Summer. I guess we'll see how good he's doing on Sunday.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some blind homer. I do think the Jets defense will be good again this year. But I don't think any defense can "shut down" the Chiefs' offense. Maybe slow them down a little. There are a few questions concerning the Chiefs. But still think they'll pull out a victory.

Chiefs 24
Jets 20

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 03:00 PM
They opened their training camp returning the NFL's No. 1 offense and the next-to-worst defense.

They ended the preseason showing some real cracks in the offense and without knowing if they had really patched enough of their defensive gaps.The Kansas City Chiefs, a 7-9 team a year ago despite featuring an offense that was No. 2 in scoring and No. 1 in total yards, wasn't exactly an offensive juggernaut during the preseason.

Its imposing offensive line showed some real cracks of age when 10-time Pro Bowl guard Will Shields, after hinting at retirement during the off-season, injured his arthritic back on the first day of camp and couldn't resume full-time practice until just before the third preseason game. Another 10-time Pro Bowl player, venerable Willie Roaf, practiced only once a day and was still experiencing back pain by late in the preseason. Even the youngest member of the line, second-year right tackle Kevin Sampson, missed the final weeks of camp with a dislocated toe that forced the Chiefs to look for a replacement at his position.

The most chilling news, however, came in the third preseason game when quarterback Trent Green, an ironman who had taken every significant snap of the previous four seasons, began experiencing numbness in the foot of the same left leg that underwent four surgeries following the 1999 knee injury that knocked him out of the Rams' Super Bowl season.

Green will go into the season hoping he's dealing with only a circulatory problem, but the Chiefs will be feeling numb if they don't have the lifeblood of their offense flowing freely.

Defensively, the supposedly rebuilt Chiefs secondary rarely slowed anyone -- Minnesota's Daunte Culpepper and Seattle's Matt Hasselbeck threw against them at will -- and even Pro Bowl addition Patrick Surtain found himself being lit up by Seattle upon learning what it's like to play cornerback without the effective pass rush he enjoyed in Miami.

Disappointing, too, was the failure to get Kendrell Bell, the ex-Steeler linebacker, on the field for anything but non-contact work until the final week of the preseason.

After playing only three games for Pittsburgh last year because of groin and hernia injuries, Bell -- also slowed by an arthritic shoulder -- was held out of games and practice-field contact work until just before the preseason finale against the Rams. It was not exactly what Chiefs fans were looking to see from a player brought to town to make turnover-forcing hits.

There were some positive signs, but they were few in nature.

First-round draft pick Derrick Johnson brought the kind of speed and potential playmaking ability to the linebacking corps that the Chiefs hadn't seen since the early days of Derrick Thomas and the final days in KC of Donnie Edwards. Johnson quickly showed the potential to be one of the league's top defensive rookies.

Still, the premise that the Chiefs would be better because they returned a potent offense and had vastly improved their defense showed few signs of materializing in the preseason.

"I believe this should be the best football team we've had since I've been here, especially on defense," coach Dick Vermeil said before camp. "Whether it will be or not depends on how we as coaches and players respond to training camp."

By camp's end, though, Vermeil had changed his tune somewhat.

"We expect to end up being a pretty good football team," Vermeil said of what could be his final team in an illustrious coaching career. "But sooner or later your performance has to match your expectations, or you have to see signs of it."

They're still looking.

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 03:04 PM
You do realize that Kennison was a 1000 yard receiver last year, don't you? You mean to tell me that a 1000 yard receiver doesn't concern you in the least? To say that your CB will "shut down" Kennison is a little ridiculous.

I'll agree that Sammie Parker is young and unproven. But at the same time, and as you've admitted, Ty Law isn't up to full speed yet. Obviously, there is still a question about his foot or some team would've signed him long before mid/late Summer. I guess we'll see how good he's doing on Sunday.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some blind homer. I do think the Jets defense will be good again this year. But I don't think any defense can "shut down" the Chiefs' offense. Maybe slow them down a little. There are a few questions concerning the Chiefs. But still think they'll pull out a victory.

Chiefs 24
Jets 20

1000 yards doesn't concern me. An old Jet by the name of Dedric Ward fell 200 yards short of it in the 2000 season and while I'm not even going to begin to compare the two, all I'm saying is even a god awful receiver like Ward could do it.

Anyways, The Chiefs are not going to beat the Jets through the air. Tony G. will definitely have a good game, but it won't dismantle the Jets defense. Your offense is going to rely on the o-line and the running game to do significant damage. If the Jets manage to find a way to stop the Chiefs running game then the Chiefs are doomed. The Jets aren't as one dimensional as that as they have a much more potent passing attack then Tony G. and Eddie Kennison.

ROYC75
09-06-2005, 03:18 PM
Just a heads up that Boomer could be active for this week's game.

Rich could be out with a seperated shoulder( has a shoulder CA ) . Not sure if this is the same shoulder that sidelined him at Syracuse or not. Sometimes they can be a nagging injury to heal.DV listed him as questionable to playing.

Saul Good
09-06-2005, 04:24 PM
How did the Chiefs offense fare against top-rated defenses in 2004? Here are some numbers based on the teams we played

Denver (3) 2 games, averaged 34.5 PPG
Tampa Bay (5) 31 points at TB
Baltimore (6) 27 points at BAL
New England (9) 19 points
Jacksonville (11) 17 points at JAX
Atlanta (14) 56 points

We played 7 games against teams in the top half of the league defensively and averaged over 31 PPG during those meetings. The Chiefs offense is as close to immune to good defense as any in the league. Clearly the Jets have a good defense, but this game is more about the Chiefs defense than anything else.

KChiefs1
09-06-2005, 04:31 PM
Didn't the Ravens have the best defense last year? How did the Chiefs do against them? If I remember correctly Ray Ray watched a lot of it from underneath Waters & Shields....

elvomito
09-06-2005, 04:33 PM
i have looked deep into my crystal football, and the following images of the future have been presented to my mind and transmetaposed to my pc through my bluetooth connection:

greg wesley intercepting a pennyboy pass to coles
http://orig.app.com/appnflpg/100602KCChiefsNYJets/images/KC1006G.jpg

priest breaking tackles:
http://orig.app.com/appnflpg/100602KCChiefsNYJets/images/KC1006F.jpg

pennyboy getting sacked:
http://orig.app.com/appnflpg/100602KCChiefsNYJets/images/KC1006D.jpg

Warrior5
09-06-2005, 05:16 PM
Sorry to burst your bubble but the Chiefs aren't going to destroy the Jets.

Please re-read my post:

No; if the Chiefs are for real they should destroy the Jets on Sunday.

Note the "if"; no bubble here to burst. Always good to have knowledgeable, passionate fans post here. We have great Pats fans, Colts fans, and yes, even a few Grayder and Donx fans that post here.

Relax, and keep up the intelligent dialogue.

andoman
09-06-2005, 05:18 PM
I haven't seen the jets much over the past few years. Do they audible at the LOS much?

Deberg_1990
09-06-2005, 05:24 PM
IM not too concerned about the Jets Defense. IM sure its great and all and probably much better than ours, but our Offense has proven the past few years it can score on the best of them. What scares me is that this defense hasnt really improved that much and will still give up huge 3rd down and long plays on a consistant basis. I predict another shootout season, alot of 35-30 games, 44-38 games etc......I also fear DV's desicion making late in games as he has made several perplexing decisions over the past few years.

Ikeyman3
09-06-2005, 05:25 PM
I haven't seen the jets much over the past few years. Do they audible at the LOS much?
With Hackett as the OC there was not much audibling at the LOS. I don't know what Hiemerdinger wil bring to the table though. I sont think you will see Penny trying to audible because of the noise in the stadium.

Deberg_1990
09-06-2005, 05:27 PM
With Hackett as the OC there was not much audibling at the LOS. I don't know what Hiemerdinger wil bring to the table though. I sont think you will see Penny trying to audible because of the noise in the stadium.

Hiemerdinger im sure cant wait to play against this D of ours. Look at what he did against us in the Monday Night game last year. The key is whether or not Pennington can be an effective down the field passer?? Most of the time i have seen him air it out long, he has a tendacny to loft his passes because he doesnt have a very strong arm.

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 05:31 PM
I can't wait to see how the Jets offense looks under Heimerdinger. Hackett held them back so badly, be ready for an explosion.

Calcountry
09-06-2005, 05:33 PM
True, we didn't play an elite schedule last year. Those are the only stats I can throw at you. We face Corey Dillon, Domanick Davis, LaDanian Tomlinson (twice), Jerome Bettis and Duce Staley and Jamal Lewis and we let up 2 100 yard rushing games, I believe thats pretty impresive considering the calibur of HB we faced, especially facing SD and LT twice. I am just saying that if you guys dont get Preist going early and fail to run, don't think you're going up top on Law and Barrett. Also, keep in mind last year was Donnie Henderson's first year with the team. The players have become use to his aggresive playcalling and will gel better this year. I am by no means predicting a blowout, however, I do feel the NYJ have the better team and squeak out a tough one in Arrowhead. Should be interesting to see how Chad reacts in a tough environment. Also, no one seems to be mentioning how Curtis can run wild on your defense. Last year he had 150+ yards on Cincy on opening day. Blaylock will be a good change of pace too in the second half.If they don't get Priest going early, the Chiefs will get Larry Johnson going. He has a different running style, so don't get to focused on the HOLMES that you forget about the JOHNSON. Dick will be sure to insert him if Holmes doesn't get it going. ;)

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 05:34 PM
I haven't seen the jets much over the past few years. Do they audible at the LOS much?

They never audibled ever. Hackett kept Pennington on a short leash. Heimerdinger supposedly plans on giving Pennington a lot more freedom. Another thing you'll see that the Jets never did over the last four years is the shotgun formation. How that turns out will be a giant mystery. In the preseason the Jets didn't seem all that comfortable with it.

KChiefs1
09-06-2005, 05:49 PM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Jets were actually the 19th rated defense in the NFL last season.

Deberg_1990
09-06-2005, 05:53 PM
They never audibled ever. Hackett kept Pennington on a short leash. Heimerdinger supposedly plans on giving Pennington a lot more freedom. Another thing you'll see that the Jets never did over the last four years is the shotgun formation. How that turns out will be a giant mystery. In the preseason the Jets didn't seem all that comfortable with it.

Do you really feel that Pennignton can be effective throwing the ball downfield?? I just dont see it?? Hiemerdinger had a much stronger armed QB at Tennesee in McNair. Hackett, while he was an extremely crappy playcaller, at least knew his QB's strenghts and limitations.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-06-2005, 05:55 PM
If we don't beat the Jets...at home...season opener...home opener...we have no pride.

I don't care what time of year it is really, good teams don't lose at home.

Ikeyman3
09-06-2005, 05:56 PM
Do you really feel that Pennignton can be effective throwing the ball downfield?? I just dont see it?? Hiemerdinger had a much stronger armed QB at Tennesee in McNair. Hackett, while he was an extremely crappy playcaller, at least knew his QB's strenghts and limitations.
He can throw the deep ball well. 40+, but it is the 15-20 yrd routes that he tends to struggle with. We will see this year if Chad is a 64 million dollar failure or not.

Ikeyman3
09-06-2005, 06:00 PM
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef.php

Jets were actually the 19th rated defense in the NFL last season.

I beg to differ. http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-SCORING/2004/regular?sort_col_1=3&_3:col_1=3

4th is PA, I dont care about some football sabermetric formula.

xxedge72x
09-06-2005, 06:08 PM
Last season Pennington threw a mint bomb to Santana Moss that went pretty damn far, I'm pretty sure it was 53 yards. In the preseason game against the Vikings, Pennington only threw 1 incomplete pass, and it was a bomb to McCareins which he actually overthrew McCareins 40 yards downfield by about 5 yards. The arm strength is there, he just never got to show it under Hackett. That is one of the most common misconceptions about Chad, that he can't throw the deepball.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-06-2005, 06:08 PM
I have visions of Chad noodle=arming a 20 yard out route and Surtain picking it off taking it to the house.

vailpass
09-06-2005, 06:14 PM
If they don't get Priest going early, the Chiefs will get Larry Johnson going. He has a different running style, so don't get to focused on the HOLMES that you forget about the JOHNSON. Dick will be sure to insert him if Holmes doesn't get it going. ;)

So Dick will not be afraid to insert his Johnson, is that what you're saying? :spock:

ChiefIronHorse
09-07-2005, 06:01 AM
Everyone is so quick to put down the Jets offense but what you all don't realize is that the Jets single biggest offseason acquisition was a new offensive coordinator. The Jets already had a boatload of offensive talent, but between Chad's injuries and what was the single worst offensive coordinator in the league last season, the Jets offense underachieved badly. But you know what, even underachieving the Jets still finished with the 13th ranked offense in the league. Now that we have a new coordinator, a healthy Pennington, Coles back, and new weapons on offense for Chad to throw to, look out.

Why does all this matter? Here's why. The Chiefs no doubt are going to put up some monster points this week, like they do every week. Hell, they are the single best offseason in the league... on paper. But... if what I've been reading is true, your boys are having some problems. Is it true that three of your starting lineman, as well as your starting QB aren't doing so well at this point? If this is true then that's cause for concern. The Jets D is aggressive and will take advantage of a situation like that. Furthermore, the Jets offense vs. the Chiefs defense is a bigger mismatch then the Chiefs O (healthy) vs. the Jets D... advantage = JETS.

BTW, yes, the Jets played some putrid teams last season... but who do you think made them look so putrid statistically? Peace.

Just changing the OC isn't a formula for success. Just ask the Chiefs Defense from last year. You have to have the playmakers for a OC or a DC to be successful. In 2003 the Chiefs D was terrible. So instead of changing the players, they decided to change the DC. Did that work? I'd say not really. So this year they changed the players that should fit the style of Gunther. I disagree with you on the "boatload of offensive talent" the jets have. How many players from the jets made the pro bowl last year. Granted that some believe that the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. But you have to be good/great to be selected/considered. Sending 2 offensive players to the Pro Bowl isn't what I call a "boatload of offensive talent." In compairison, the Chiefs sent 5 offensive players to the Pro Bowl last year. And the year before they sent the entire backfield (QB, FB and RB) as well as the RT, LG and TE. Now here's the comment I don't understand, "Hell, they are the single best offseason in the league... on paper." On paper? The Chiefs have either lead the league or been second in total offense for the last 3 years. I wouldn't say that's paper. Now if you say that the Chiefs defense looks good on paper, then I'd agree with that given the fact that the new players have yet to play a regular season down. Speaking of problems, the jets have quiet a few as well.

1. Pennington's shoulder? Has it healed fully?
2. Pennington is playing in a new system. Because of offseason shoulder surgery, Pennington got off to a late start in Mike Heimerdinger's system and experienced an up-and-down preseason. Will it take time for the new offense to gel?
3. Abraham signed last week and has only 1 practice under his belt. Is he "football" ready?
4. Law, who didn't sign until Aug. 8, participated in only one game (approximately 40 snaps), so he's not in top condition.
5. Jets are starting a rookie OL. Is he ready to handle the load?

Keep in mind that the jets will face perhaps the best blocking offense in the NFL. Can't argue with Roaf, Shields and Waters. Throw in Dunn and Richardson and you have the best if not one of the best blocking Offenses in the NFL. Even Gonzalez has stepped up his blocking.

Chiefs D vs. jets O? How many receivers did the jets have last year that had over 1000 Rec Yards? Be sure to include the TE and Coles. I'm not saying that the Chiefs will run away with this game. But I believe that the advanage goes to the Chiefs O vs. jets D. The jets O ranked 12 last year. Granted they didn't have Pennington. A new offensive system, newly repaired shoulder (Pennington) and a hostile environment...... Chiefs D vs. jets O = CHIEFS!!!

ChiefIronHorse
09-07-2005, 06:05 AM
Before Barrett came to the Jets he was constantly matching up with Torry Holt/Isaac Bruce, Darrell Jackson/Koren Robinson, and Terrell Owens... because he was a Cardinal he was practically unknown. Barrett had a stellar season last year, especially towards the end. What in hell should give me reason to believe he can't shut down your number one receiver, Eddie Kennison?

The reason I pin Law on your #2, Parker, is because he's not up to full speed yet, and won't even be in the game for every single play. Once Law is 100% he'll be on the #1s, but for now, that's Barrett's job, and Barrett vs. Kennison doesn't concern me in the slightest way as a Jets fan.

My concern is Tony G. vs. Kerry Rhodes. And that is legitimate. Your wideouts vs. our corners though, no question we've got the advantage.

Ask chump baily if he had the advantage against Kennison last year. 45-17 against the 4th best total defense in the NFL/6th best passing defense in the NFL.

ChiefIronHorse
09-07-2005, 06:09 AM
Chad Pennington is healthy. John Abraham is in camp. Ty Law is a Jet, not a Patriot. Mike Nugent is perfect, so far. And Curtis Martin is ready.

On the surface, the Jets just completed a wildly successful preseason. But wait a second, listen up: There were cautionary words emanating from the postgame locker room Thursday night in Philadelphia, and again yesterday from Herm Edwards.


Edwards was generally pleased with the preseason, but he mentioned a few question marks, most of them involving the offense.


Because of offseason shoulder surgery, Pennington got off to a late start in Mike Heimerdinger's system and experienced an up-and-down preseason. Edwards acknowledged that it may take some time for Pennington to feel comfortable, raising the question of whether the Jets could win an opening-day shootout against the high-scoring Chiefs at Arrowhead Stadium.


"Our passing game, we'll see," Edwards said. "I think it will improve as we play, but I think you've got to establish the run in this league."


Translation: The Jets will ride the 32-year-old Martin until Pennington gets settled.


After his flawless cameo against the Eagles' scrubs, Pennington candidly admitted that he and Heimerdinger still are in the feeling-out stage of their relationship.


"The biggest adjustment for me is, I try to get inside a coordinator's head," Pennington said. "That's going to take some time still, but I think we accomplished a lot in the preseason."


The same can't be said for Abraham and Law, the Jets' most accomplished defensive players. Law, who didn't sign until Aug. 8, participated in only one game (approximately 40 snaps), so he's not in top condition. Abraham waited until Monday to end his contract dispute, so he's had only one practice.


So think about it: Law, Abraham and Pennington, three of the Jets' best players, are dealing with injury/rust issues as they head into Kansas City. Curiously, Law didn't face the Eagles. Edwards said he simply rested Law, that it had nothing to do with his surgically repaired foot. But he wondered about Law's stamina.


"Ty Law, all of a sudden, is going to start. Is he in shape to go 77 plays? I don't know that," Edwards said. "How many plays can John Abraham play? I don't know that. . . . I don't know if they're concerns, but I haven't seen it live."

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/story/343002p-292904c.html

Even the jets coach is worried about this game. To be honest, I'm worried too. Jets will be tough this year. But I'd rather get the jets in week #1 then in week #8. By the time the jets play the chargers, the rAIDerS and the donkeys, they'll be hitting on all cylinders. Law should be 100%, Abraham will be in "football shape" and Pennington will have several games under his belt in the new offensive system. I hope the jets go 3-1 against the AFC West losing in week #1.

Douche Baggins
09-07-2005, 06:20 AM
More tripe:


I do not understand why people think the Chiefs game will be so difficult. It is obsolete to say that Arrowhead is one of the toughest places to play. Come on, they were 4-4 there last year, that isn't great at all.

Also, I think people overlook the advantage of playing the chiefs early in the season. Their defense was awful last year and while they made some imporvements like adding Derrick J, bell, surtain, and knight, from experience with Jets defenses, we know that a lot of new faces on a defense means it will take a considerable amount of time for them to gel as a unit. Also, do not forget that they will not have their cb warfield. Look for our offense to have a field day.

In terms of stopping their offense, they were good last year but they put up a lot of points on mediocre defenses. The chiefs might have the worst receving corps in the entire nfl. Their "go to guy" is Eddie Kennison and after that the basically have no one. We just need to put all out focus on stopping T.G. and Priest. We are more than capable of doing that considering our defense is even better than last year, where we were already the 4th ranked defense in terms of points allowed.

ChiefIronHorse
09-07-2005, 06:50 AM
More tripe:

"I do not understand why people think the Chiefs game will be so difficult. It is obsolete to say that Arrowhead is one of the toughest places to play. Come on, they were 4-4 there last year, that isn't great at all."

Of course he doesn't understand. He's a huge homer! Ask any QB that has played at Arrowhead if it's one of the toughest places to play. Of course he's not going to say that Arrowhead is a tough place to play. He's a fan sitting in the stands and not on the field.

"Also, I think people overlook the advantage of playing the chiefs early in the season. Their defense was awful last year and while they made some imporvements like adding Derrick J, bell, surtain, and knight, from experience with Jets defenses, we know that a lot of new faces on a defense means it will take a considerable amount of time for them to gel as a unit. Also, do not forget that they will not have their cb warfield. Look for our offense to have a field day."

Again, another homer comment. I can say the same thing about the jets. Abraham isn't "football" ready. Law isn't 100% and will only be looking at limited duty. Safties are green. Pennington is returning from a shoulder injury not to mention in a new system that he isn't comfortable with. The have a rookie O Lineman and the TE's aren't known for their blocking. Look for our offense (Chiefs) to have a field day.

"In terms of stopping their offense, they were good last year but they put up a lot of points on mediocre defenses. The chiefs might have the worst receving corps in the entire nfl. Their "go to guy" is Eddie Kennison and after that the basically have no one. We just need to put all out focus on stopping T.G. and Priest. We are more than capable of doing that considering our defense is even better than last year, where we were already the 4th ranked defense in terms of points allowed."

This is by far the biggest homer paragraph. How many 1000 yard WR did the jets have last year? I guess Gonzalez is "no one." The Chiefs do have an unproven WR and a WR that's coming back from injury. And even if he was correct in saying that the Chiefs have the "worst receiving corps in the entire NFL?" The Chiefs had the 4th best passing offense in the NFL. Green was second in the NFL in passing yardage. How many times have you seen a fan or a player say all they have to do is stop Gonzalez and Holmes? They've been saying that for the past 3 years. In 3 years (48 games) very few and I mean very few defenses have slow down let alone stop the Chiefs offense. Ask the donkeys, Falcons, TB and Ravens if the Chiefs were able to stop Gonzalez and Holmes. 3 of those 4 teams had a better defense then the jets did. A rusty Abraham, a limp Law and a Green Saftey, I'll take the Chiefs Offense all day long.

Bob Dole
09-07-2005, 07:52 AM
They never audibled ever. Hackett kept Pennington on a short leash. Heimerdinger supposedly plans on giving Pennington a lot more freedom. Another thing you'll see that the Jets never did over the last four years is the shotgun formation. How that turns out will be a giant mystery. In the preseason the Jets didn't seem all that comfortable with it.

The shotgun formation is over rated.

Your guys should do it a lot.

Cochise
09-07-2005, 07:54 AM
Just make sure you fellas come back on Monday to take your lumps if you don't win.

bobbything
09-07-2005, 08:27 AM
In terms of stopping their offense, they were good last year but they put up a lot of points on mediocre defenses.
I take extreme exception to this. We played 8 teams within the top half on defense in points given up. And still managed 28 points per game. Hell, KC has been doing it for the last 3 seasons. Talk about consistency.

As far as 1000 yard receivers go, we had two of them: Kennison and Gonzo. Morton would have been a 3rd if he hadn't gotten hurt.

I don't know why I get so riled up over statements as absurd as this one. I have complete confidence that we'll put up, minimum, of 24 points. The real question is the Jets "O" vs. KC's "D." This is where the game will be won/lost.

I like our chances. Every team has "questions" the first week. We're not unique in this situation. However, our "questions" do not lie within the offense. Green and his "surgery" are a non-issue. I love how this has spun into what it has. Our QB still manages to rack up 4000+ passing yards with our "mediocre" receiving corps.

Jets fan, seriously, while Ty Law is shutting down Sammie Parker, and Eddie Kennision is having fits, watch out for the screen pass to Priest Holmes and the play action to Gonzo. These will be the two biggest passing options in the game. And, since KC has been successful for 3 years utilizing this area of the passing game, I have no reason to think otherwise that any defense, let alone the NY Jets, who gave up 20+ to the Rams, Pats, Ravens, Bills, Bengals, and Chargers, will hold this KC team to anything under 24 points, at Arrowhead, on opening day.

Best of luck.