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View Full Version : **Rumor**SIMS HAS LISFRANC INJURY


ChiefsKing
09-11-2005, 10:27 PM
.

Shag
09-11-2005, 10:28 PM
Is that the same injury Law had? If so, this could be big trouble for Sims, and he'd be out for the year, I believe...

Reaper16
09-11-2005, 10:29 PM
Link? Sims looked good when he was in today, we don;t need him out for the season with the "Ty Law injury."

ChiefsKing
09-11-2005, 10:29 PM
*warning: this is on profootball.com, which is the rumor capital of rumor mills, so we will see if it is true.

beer bacon
09-11-2005, 10:29 PM
Link to this article? I thought he wasn't getting an MRI until tomorrow.

HolmeZz
09-11-2005, 10:29 PM
I thought he was having the MRI tomorrow.

Iowanian
09-11-2005, 10:30 PM
whats the source? Nick Athan?

pfffffffffft

Reaper16
09-11-2005, 10:30 PM
*warning: this is on profootball.com, which is the rumor capital of rumor mills, so we will see if it is true.

Looks like Sims suits up next week. :)

KChiefs1
09-11-2005, 10:30 PM
He was looking good too....I guess he is just one of those players who can never stay on the field.

Dunit35
09-11-2005, 10:31 PM
if what this worthless sight is saying...bring on the 3-4 even more...it worked well today anyways...

milkman
09-11-2005, 10:31 PM
This looks like ProFootballTalk or Nick Athan.

If so, I'll wait for a more credible source.

KcMizzou
09-11-2005, 10:32 PM
*warning: this is on profootball.com,

Oh... spooked me for a sec.


Move along, nothing to see here....

beer bacon
09-11-2005, 10:33 PM
Perhaps the title of this thread should be edited to something "PROFOOTBALL.COM CLAIMS SIMS HAS LISFRANC INJURY EVEN THOUGH HE IS NOT ACTUALLY GETTING AN MRI UNTIL MONDAY".

ChiefsKing
09-11-2005, 10:33 PM
Is that the same injury Law had? If so, this could be big trouble for Sims, and he'd be out for the year, I believe...


Oh I don't know, Ty Law bounced back pretty fast. ROFL

KILLER_CLOWN
09-11-2005, 10:33 PM
Good news indeed if it's from Athan, he'll be practicing come tuesday.

PastorMikH
09-11-2005, 10:34 PM
Interesting. Here's a link for more info...

http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?Thread_ID=315&topcategory=Foot


Treatment: "If the bones have not been forced out of position, you will probably have to wear a cast and refrain from putting weight on the foot for about six weeks."

ChiefsKing
09-11-2005, 10:34 PM
where is Nick, we need someone to verify this.

PastorMikH
09-11-2005, 10:35 PM
*warning: this is on profootball.com, which is the rumor capital of rumor mills, so we will see if it is true.


DOH!

I'd almost consider neg-rep for someone who posts news from PFT without gicing reference to their source.

Rudy lost the toss
09-11-2005, 10:37 PM
DOH!

I'd almost consider neg-rep for someone who posts news from PFT without gicing reference to their source.
Seriously, you scared the shit out of me. I don't want Siavii to have to play

KcMizzou
09-11-2005, 10:38 PM
Sims, a 2002 top-ten pick, is in his "time to step up and show you're not a fat overpaid load" season with the Chiefs.This phrase indicated to me that it might not be from www.nfl.com (http://www.nfl.com)

ROFL

Miles
09-11-2005, 10:42 PM
Its from profootballtalk.

ROYC75
09-11-2005, 10:42 PM
FWIW, lets hope it isn't, MRI tomorrow will reveal it. This site has pictures .

http://www.arthroscopy.com/sp09022.htm

LISFRANC (Tarsal-Metatarsal) FRACTURE DISLOCATION





The Lisfranc injury to the forefoot is thought to have originated with Napoleon's surgeon. During that time, if a rider was thrown from his horse and the foot was caught in the stirrups, the rider often suffered a severe fracture of multiple bones in the midfoot region with dislocation of the fragments. The resulting trauma often resulted in an amputation of the forefoot at a specific level called the Lisfranc joint, after the French surgeon who first noticed the pattern of this injury. Fortunately, although the injury is still called a Lisfranc injury, amputations are rarely done for this injury.





ANATOMY
However, the term Lisfranc injury (or fracture-dislocation) now defines a specific type of injury to the forefoot. To understand the injury it is first necessary to understand the anatomy of the foot. The talus is the bone below the ankle, which allows for the upward and downward motion of the ankle. Beneath the talus is the calcaneus, which is the heel bone. Just in front of the talus (when viewed from the top (dorsal) aspect of the foot, is the navicular bone. Just beyond this bone, towards the toes are the bones that are responsible for the arch configuration of the midfoot.



Figure 1: Normal AP xray of right foot. The yellow dots are the cuneiform bones (3). The red dots are the metatarsals (5). The teal dot is the cuboid bone. The red circle represents tthe Lisfranc joint between the 1st and 2nd metatarsals and the medial cuneiform bone.








Figure 2: Normal AP xray of right foot. The red circle represents the Lisfranc joint between the 1st and 2nd metatarsals and the medial cuneiform bone. Within this circle are the ligaments that are responsible for maintaining the stability of this key joint.



The bones consist of the 3 cuneiform bones and the cuboid bone. Further towards the toes, are the metatarsal bones. Everywhere that these bones come together, there is a joint. The proper alignment of the bones at the joints is due to the ligaments that hold the bones in the proper place. The Lisfranc joint actually refers to a number of joints which are formed by the junction of the metatarsals and the cuneiforms, and by the junction of the metatarsals and the cuboid bone.





INJURY & DIAGNOSIS
In modern times, a Lisfranc injury indicates an injury to the normal alignment of the cuneiforms and metatarsal joints with the loss of their normal spatial relationships.

The most common injury to the Lisfranc joint occurs at the joint involving the 1st and 2nd metatarsals and the medial cuneiform. If the ligaments between the medial and mid cuneiforms are disrupted, or between the 1st, 2nd mt and the medial cuneiform, then the bones separate and the normal alignment of the joints is lost.





Figure 3: Abnormal AP xray of right foot. The red circle represents the Lisfranc joint between the 1st and 2nd metatarsals and the medial cuneiform bone. Notice the abnormally large space (outlined by red line) between the two metatarsal bones (compare to Figures 1 & 2) which indicates that the ligament complex has been torn allowing for the bones of the Lisfranc joint to begin to dislocate (sublux).




When recognized, this injury may be treated surgically and has a much better prognosis then when it is not diagnosed.

Obviously, with multiple fractures, injury to the Lisfranc joint is obvious. However, the difficulty develops with the subtle injuries that may result in a small chip fracture, or simply a torn ligament. Unfortunately, these injuries are difficult to diagnosis. If not treated, chronic pain often results.

Accurate diagnosis requires a physical exam to determine the amount of swelling, the location of the bruising, and the areas of tenderness. When the injury is suspected, x-rays are often taken of the foot. However, due to the subtle nature of the changes associated with this injury, multiple films are often necessary. In addition, even if the first set of x-rays is normal, as the swelling decrease with time, this may allow for the bones to move from their normal position, especially if the stabilizing ligaments have been torn and the joints have been made unstable. For that reason, it is often necessary to take x-rays during the healing process to evaluate for the possible delayed development of instability. In some patients, it is necessary to proceed to more sophisticated scanning techniques including CT scans or MRI. Unfortunately, it is possible to have a scan that is interpreted as normal, even when the joints are unstable and partially dislocated. (This is referred to as a false negative finding).





TREATMENT
Once instability at the midfoot joints has been established. The treatment is usually surgical if a significant separation of the bones exists. Surgical treatment usually requires that pins and/or screws be inserted to stabilize the bones and joints. This procedure is called an open reduction and internal fixation. This allows the normal anatomy to be re-established.





Figure 4: Post operative x-ray. Notice how the distance between the 1st and 2nd metatarsals and the cuneiform bones is now normal. Compare to figure 1 and figure 3. The red circle represents the area of the fixed Lisfranc joint between the 1st and 2nd metatarsals and the medial cuneiform bone.



After surgery, it is critical that the patient remain non-weight bearing until full healing occurs. During this time, a short leg cast is usually applied. Once healing has occurred, several months after the surgery, it is necessary to remove the screws/ pins (internal fixation devices) prior to full weight bearing and resumption of activities.

beer bacon
09-11-2005, 10:44 PM
Profootball.com is basically contradicting this SI article. In the article it is claimed that DV said Sims, Richardson, and Surtain probably did not have that serious of injuries:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/football/nfl/09/11/bc.fbn.chiefs.injuries.ap/

Three starters injured for Chiefs
Posted: Sunday September 11, 2005 8:30PM; Updated: Sunday September 11, 2005 8:30PM

KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- One look at the injury list is enough to keep the Kansas City Chiefs' 27-7 victory over the New York Jets in sobering perspective.

Four starters went down, including Pro Bowl cornerback Patrick Surtain and 10-time Pro Bowl left tackle Willie Roaf. Defensive tackle Ryan Sims has a foot injury.




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Surtain was injured at the end of one of the day's most explosive plays. With perfect timing, he intercepted Chad Pennington's pass and then turned upfield 53 yards before guard Brandon Moore brought him down hard.

He lay on the ground several minutes and then walked off on wobbly legs with what was described as a concussion.

After the Chiefs scored 17 points on their first three possessions, Roaf came out with a hamstring. Also out was Pro Bowl fullback Tony Richardson with what was described as a knee sprain.

Jordan Black, who was starting at right tackle, moved over for Roaf and Chris Bober came in at right tackle. Perhaps it was not a coincidence that an offense which had seemed unstoppable did not have another score until Lawrence Tynes hit a field goal with 4:13 left in the third quarter.

Coach Dick Vermeil indicated Surtain, Sims and Richardson would not be out long. He said he doubted Roaf would be ready for next week's game at Oakland.

"Any time you lose a 10-time Pro Bowler, it changes things a little bit," said quarterback Trent Green.

The offensive line was already weakened by the four-game suspension of John Welbourn, who could play both guard and tackle.

"You never want to lose either of those guys and, hopefully, they're not serious injuries," said Green. "The guys who stepped in played well -- Bober and Jordan. It's tough for any guy to go from right to left, let alone a young guy, and play like he did. I think they both did well. But when you get that kind of lead you want to start pounding the ball."

ROYC75
09-11-2005, 10:47 PM
TR was standing at his locker, moving around OK.
Sims left the locker room on crutches.

Bob Dole
09-11-2005, 10:48 PM
TR was standing at his locker, moving around OK.
Sims left the locker room on crutches.

Mewling like a little kitten...

ChiefsKing
09-11-2005, 10:50 PM
from kffl:


<A name=259120>Chiefs | Sims Injures Foot; Status Uncertain
Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:30:36 -0700Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.kffl.com/team/21/nfl) DT Ryan Sims (http://www.kffl.com/player/963/nfl) (foot) suffered a right foot strain and a sprained ankle during the team's season opener, Sunday, Sept. 11. No word yet on his status for Week 2.
<A name=259119>Chiefs | Richardson Suffers Multiple Injuries
Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:28:46 -0700Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.kffl.com/team/21/nfl) FB Tony Richardson (http://www.kffl.com/player/967/nfl) (ankle, knee) suffered a right knee injury and a sprained ankle during the team's season opener, Sunday, Sept. 11. No word yet on his status for Week 2.
<A name=259118>Chiefs | Roaf Dinged
Sun, 11 Sep 2005 15:28:15 -0700Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.kffl.com/team/21/nfl) OT William Roaf (http://www.kffl.com/player/984/nfl) (hamstring) suffered a left hamstring strain during the team's season opener, Sunday, Sept. 11. No word yet on his status for Week 2. <A name=259177>Chiefs | Roaf may Miss Next Week's Game
Sun, 11 Sep 2005 19:37:42 -0700The Associated Press reports Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.kffl.com/team/21/nfl) OT William Roaf (http://www.kffl.com/player/984/nfl) (hamstring) may miss next week's game due to a hamstring injury. Head coach Dick Vermeil (http://www.kffl.com/player/7810/nfl) doubted Roaf would be ready for next week's game at Oakland.

ChiefsKing
09-11-2005, 10:52 PM
really hope they are not right

Count Alex's Wins
09-11-2005, 10:52 PM
Looks like Roaf hurt his hammy on Priest's TD:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1015/animation16cs.gif (http://imageshack.us)

beavis
09-11-2005, 10:53 PM
Smells like bullshit to me.

HolmeZz
09-11-2005, 10:53 PM
If that's Roaf's injury, it can't be any more than a bruise. He didn't pull anything. Just landed on it.

KcMizzou
09-11-2005, 10:55 PM
If that's Roaf's injury, it can't be any more than a bruise. He didn't pull anything. Just landed on it.How do you figure?

Are you looking at the same clip I am? The one GC just posted?

David.
09-11-2005, 10:57 PM
...he grabbed the leg that he didn't land on.

KcMizzou
09-11-2005, 10:58 PM
...he grabbed the leg that he didn't land on....before he ever hit the turf.

alanm
09-11-2005, 10:59 PM
In the Clayton article posted he said TR was standing around his locker talking to reporters after the game and didn't look all that bad. Surtain was said by Vermeil that he wasn't going to miss any time. In fact he said the only one to possibly miss next weeks game was Roaf. He didn't say much about Sims.

wutamess
09-11-2005, 10:59 PM
If that's Roaf's injury, it can't be any more than a bruise. He didn't pull anything. Just landed on it.

Looks like the Ryam Sims injury of last year (or the year before) when he dove for that INT and missed 4 or so games with a hammy injury.

Yes it could be that bad.

HolmeZz
09-11-2005, 10:59 PM
How do you figure?

Are you looking at the same clip I am? The one GC just posted?

Yeah? I was just talking about his hamstring, which is what the injury is being reported as. From the clip GC posted, it doesn't look like he could've did anything more than fall on it, so it's not a tear or anything. Looks more like a bruise, maybe a strain. If it's like a hip injury or something, that's a different story.

EDIT: He grabbed the leg he DIDN'T land on? Didn't notice that. I was looking at the leg he landed on. :-[

David.
09-11-2005, 11:00 PM
...before he ever hit the turf.

exactly, looks like a pull to me.

But..I'm not exactly a doctor :D

Wallcrawler
09-11-2005, 11:00 PM
Its not the same injury Law had. Ty Law BROKE his foot and was out a great deal of time due to surgery to repair it.

A couple seasons ago, Brian Dawkins had that kind of foot sprain and he was out a few weeks, but not for the entire season.

Of course, Brian Dawkins' foot wasnt having to bear the load of 300+ pounds either, so Sims' recovery could take a bit longer.

KcMizzou
09-11-2005, 11:01 PM
exactly, looks like a pull to me.

But..I'm not exactly a doctor :DEh... me neither. Whatever it is, I hope it's minor.

HolmeZz
09-11-2005, 11:01 PM
Yeah, Roaf's looks like a hammy pull.

beer bacon
09-11-2005, 11:04 PM
Here is another article with a quote from DV that may shed a tiny amount of light on what he thinks Sims' injury is:

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2005/09/11/postgame_quotes__dick_vermeil__jets/

Postgame Quotes - Dick Vermeil - Jets
Sep 11, 2005, 4:16:23 PM


Kansas City Chiefs vs. New York Jets
Sunday, September 11, 2005
Head Coach Dick Vermeil
Postgame Quotes





On the game: “Specifically our defense really developed, and our offense in game-planning those first three drives did a great job. We did all the things you have to do to win, because when the Jets get beat it’s normally because they’ve turned the ball over and had some penalties. Today was out of their profile.”



On injuries: “We lost Ryan Sims in the first series with a sprained foot and then we only had six defensive linemen suited up. Then we lost Willie Roaf at left tackle, so we ended up early with our two backup offensive tackles playing the whole football game. Jordan Black played left [tackle] and he’s been right [tackle] standing in for Kevin Sampson. Patrick Surtain got knocked out.”

On the play of the Jets: “I’m sure Herman and his coaches will use this as a real learning experience and come back and be better the next time. It was very similar to when Atlanta [2004] came here and was a good football team and got beat and made it to the NFC championship game.”

On the Chiefs players, overall: “I was very pleased with the way we used our personnel and working with the two running backs in there and the people filling in for the injured players did a good job. You saw the improvement in Kawika Mitchell; you saw what Kendrell Bell can do; you saw what Sammy Knight can do. All the moves that Carl [Peterson] and personnel made paid off.”

On Trent Green’s performance: “We were actually pretty conservative in the utilization of our passing attack. I thought the running scheme game-plan broke them down a little bit early.”

On the defense’s improvement: “There’s nothing like having talent. I’ve been on the field a long time and we’ve never had better football players sitting in this room collectively. We have some talented players on defense that can run and make plays. Our draft and free agency were good and then the maturity of the kids that were already here blended together. I could just see, from watching practice against our offense, it was going to be a much better defense. Did I anticipate shutting out the Jets? No, but I thought we could slow them down a bit because we can all run. They can all run. I think the blitzing packages kept them off-balance a little bit.

“We had the ability to look like a play was going to break and then someone flashes and makes a play. We missed very few tackles. Talented athletes make more tackles than average athletes because they get [to the ball carrier] earlier and can make the tackle.”

On the running game: “Priest Holmes’ 35-yard run is the most fundamental run we have in the offense – just straight down hill with Tony Richardson as the lead blocker. It was just a fundamental play well executed. When we go down hill we are a better running team.”

On the Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson game plan: “Two series - one series - two series - one series. In fact, we went two series and Larry went in just to give Priest a break after his big long run. But once he goes in, he finishes the series. Once a back goes in he is staying. Then when he comes out we go back into our rotation. We’ll have a plan each week. But everybody knows it’s not ideal for either guy, but they both were pretty darn fresh late in the game. It was impressive. They’re both capable and they both care about each other and I think Larry has learned a lot from Priest in understanding our offense. Priest looked to come out after that 35-yard run and that’s why Larry went in – Priest came out.”

Pitt Gorilla
09-11-2005, 11:12 PM
I hope Roaf's injury is just a pull. A pop would be very bad.

B_Ambuehl
09-12-2005, 12:31 AM
The type of injury Sims has often is ready to go very quick (within a couple of days), but not always. Take a knee like you would if you were at the very bottom of a lunge and go all the way down so your weight is supported on one knee. Next, rise up on the toes of your non-supporting foot and keep rising up and forward on that foot until you feel a stretch along the top. If you rise up far enough and go forward on that foot it'll hurt on top. That's exactly what Ryan Sims did. He fell to his knees and when he was getting back up his foot rolled forwad on him straining the top. It hurts like hell but I'd rather have that the a sprained ankle. It's happened to me twice. The first time I was on crutches that night and playing basketball 3 days later. The 2nd time was about the same recoverywise but maybe I was just lucky.

Roaf strained his hamstring exploding into a block. The severity is hard to determine just based on that.

Count Alex's Wins
09-12-2005, 12:37 AM
I hope Roaf's injury is just a pull. A pop would be very bad.

I don't know how to judge this:

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/1015/animation16cs.gif

ChiefsKing
09-12-2005, 12:40 AM
He is probably fine. I like a good rumor, but this site also picked us to be last in our division. They obviously don't know jack, so mods can delete this thread at any time. They are just guessing. No one will know until tomm. I really hope it is nothing, Simms was starting to look like he was the 6th pick in the first round. Needless to say, I wish we had the other 6th pick in the first round, cory simon.

beer bacon
09-12-2005, 12:42 AM
He is probably fine. I like a good rumor, but this site also picked us to be last in our division. They obviously don't know jack, so mods can delete this thread at any time. They are just guessing. No one will know until tomm. I really hope it is nothing, Simms was starting to look like he was the 6th pick in the first round. Needless to say, I wish we had the other 6th pick in the first round, cory simon.

Corey Simon looked EXTREMELY out of shape last night against the Ravens. He was rotating out a whole lot. He didn't get that many snaps, nor did he make that much of an impact.

Pitt Gorilla
09-12-2005, 12:44 AM
Corey Simon looked EXTREMELY out of shape last night against the Ravens. He was rotating out a whole lot. He didn't get that many snaps, nor did he make that much of an impact.I'm surprised they found pants to fit him. Wow, that is a lot of dude.

ChiefsKing
09-12-2005, 12:47 AM
Indy D looks as improved as ours.

chief99
09-12-2005, 12:51 AM
PROFOOTBALL.com is STORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's an AD !!!! Just a rumor to get people to go there.

Delete this thread !!!!!

Dirtywater
09-12-2005, 12:51 AM
Its not the same injury Law had. Ty Law BROKE his foot and was out a great deal of time due to surgery to repair it.

Incorrect. Ty Law did indeed have the dreaded Linsfranc fracture, but that is not what made his as bad as it was.

The Linsfranc is quite serious, and not to down play it, but Law's return could have been expidited if he was diagnosed with it right away. If you get the diagnosis right away, they can treat it and you have a higher chance to return and return at close to full strength. If not treated in time, as in Law's case, the healing and rehab take quite a bit longer and the risk of not being near 100% is far greater.

The bad news if true? He could potentially and most likely be out for the year. The good news? He has a better chance of playing this season and will hopfully heal fine.

ChiefsKing
09-12-2005, 12:54 AM
PROFOOTBALL.com is STORE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's an AD !!!! Just a rumor to get people to go there.

Delete this thread !!!!!



I agree. sorry for the post. this site is the national enquire of sports. please delete

HolmeZz
09-12-2005, 12:55 AM
Indy D looks as improved as ours.

They were playing Baltimore.

chief99
09-12-2005, 02:42 AM
ChiefKing gave the wrong site.

http://profootballtalk.com/

What a professional looking website. Prob run by a 10 year old.

KcMizzou
09-12-2005, 02:45 AM
ChiefKing gave the wrong site.

http://profootballtalk.com/

What a professional looking website. Prob run by a 10 year old. Yeah, they're infamous here at the Planet.

Miles
09-12-2005, 02:46 AM
ChiefKing gave the wrong site.

http://profootballtalk.com/

What a professional looking website. Prob run by a 10 year old.

You should have seen what I looked like before. They actually somewhat recently changed the formating.

beer bacon
09-12-2005, 02:58 AM
ChiefKing gave the wrong site.

http://profootballtalk.com/

What a professional looking website. Prob run by a 10 year old.

What a joke. The headline on their frontpage is "Sims have Lisfranc injury".

ChiefsKing
09-12-2005, 08:27 AM
ChiefKing gave the wrong site.

http://profootballtalk.com/

What a professional looking website. Prob run by a 10 year old.


Chief99 you don't have to be such a dickhead about it. I never gave the wrong website, and I went back and deleted it so blow me.

Cochise
09-12-2005, 08:39 AM
Sims have lisfranc injury

This thread have teh ghey

donkhater
09-12-2005, 08:44 AM
Well, Clayton mentioned in his article on ESPN that Sims left the locker room on crutches and in pain, so it doesn't sound minor to me.