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View Full Version : Did we see the changing of the guard?


Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 08:20 AM
I am as big a fan of Priest Holmes as anyone can be. He has been the man over and over again. He has my undying love and appreciation forever. He may well be my favorite Chief of all time.

But was I the only one with a jaw on the floor and an almost insane yearning to see LJ carry the ball more and Priest less as the game went on? Damn... that dude can flat ****ing play. Unbelievable. He made me think MVP candidate. He made me have memory flashes of the greatest RB's to ever play. No, I'm not saying he is one of the greatest ever... yet. But what could he do if he was the full time back???

I don't want to see Priest replaced. But maybe replaced as the starter? I know they are gonna share the workload... but I'm thinking it might be better for Larry to get 2/3rds of the carries instead of Priest...?

Scorp
09-12-2005, 08:26 AM
While I think on one hand Johnson should start over priest and also have more touches, I really like this kid angry. I am not sure I would mess with too much right now. I think an angry Johnson is better right now than a happy Johnson.

morphius
09-12-2005, 08:27 AM
The way I see it right now, if we get a 17 point lead, up the carriest to Johnson and let Priest rest a bit so that he is there for us at the end of the season.

This tandem is going to be fun to watch.

Sam
09-12-2005, 08:27 AM
I love Priest but, I'll put money on LJ starting before the year is out.

Ari Chi3fs
09-12-2005, 08:28 AM
I think we got the right combination... use LJ sparingly enough to keep him angry and hungry... and use him enough to punish the other team, and keep Priest fresh, so that teams arent gunning to knock him out of the game [which has been teh case the past 3 years.]

Saulbadguy
09-12-2005, 08:30 AM
I like the way we are doing it now. 1-2 punch. Make teams gameplan for both backs.

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 08:30 AM
I think we got the right combination... use LJ sparingly enough to keep him angry and hungry... and use him enough to punish the other team, and keep Priest fresh, so that teams arent gunning to knock him out of the game [which has been teh case the past 3 years.]
Good point... I'm not sure opposing defenses will even want Priest out of the game now... :D

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 08:32 AM
I like the way we are doing it now. 1-2 punch. Make teams gameplan for both backs.
I wasn't suggesting a change in the 1-2 punch. Only asking if Larry should get more carries.

Tinlar
09-12-2005, 08:34 AM
My side hurts when I think about it...

We've kept Priest as a starter over Larry so long that when he hits the market I think he's gone.

I'm not sure how we could have better played this as a team but if giving him the start now keeps him as our long term RB solution then give the boy the start.

Priest has thought seriously about retirement at least once already. Given that he has to understand that the team need to protect its future. Hell, the most comparable back to priest, Marshall Faulk, willing took a back seat to their furture this year. It is probably time for priest to start considering doing the same.

NewChief
09-12-2005, 08:35 AM
This is callous, but my feelings are to ride Priest as long as wel can. Wear him out. Keep giving LJ plenty of carries, but continue to start Priest and let him workhorse it... as long as Priest continues to have some measure of success that is. If he totally drops off in production, then consider LJ. Keep LJ fresh for later in the season.

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 08:36 AM
My side hurts when I think about it...

We've kept Priest as a starter over Larry so long that when he hits the market I think he's gone.

I'm not sure how we could have better played this as a team but if giving him the start now keeps him as our long term RB solution then give the boy the start.

Priest has thought seriously about retirement at least once already. Given that he has to understand that the team need to protect its future. Hell, the most comparable back to priest, Marshall Faulk, willing took a back seat to their furture this year. It is probably time for priest to start considering doing the same.
How long is Larry signed anyway?

Great sig line too btw... ROFL

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 08:37 AM
This is callous, but my feelings are to ride Priest as long as wel can. Wear him out. Keep giving LJ plenty of carries, but continue to start Priest and let him workhorse it... as long as Priest continues to have some measure of success that is. If he totally drops off in production, then consider LJ. Keep LJ fresh for later in the season.
why is that callous?

the Talking Can
09-12-2005, 08:39 AM
we've got them trying to out-do each other....it's a perfect situation

dirk digler
09-12-2005, 08:41 AM
I think it is quite apparent that LJ needs to be the starter with Priest providing the change of pace.

I hate to quote TJ but "Priest has lost his burst"

NewChief
09-12-2005, 08:42 AM
why is that callous?

Well, because it's built upon the supposition that we're going to wear Priest out and if someone is going to get worn out and injured from wear, I'd rather it be Priest than LJ at this point.

Rain Man
09-12-2005, 08:43 AM
At long last, I understand how those guys feel in those chick flicks where they love their wives but they also fall in love with another woman.

NewChief
09-12-2005, 08:43 AM
we've got them trying to out-do each other....it's a perfect situation

Agreed. I think LJ is motivated by the fact that he's not starting. Eventually it may begin to make him sullen and start working against us, but right now it's making him hungry.

trndobrd
09-12-2005, 08:45 AM
I think we will start to see more situational use of both backs based on the defense we are facing on a particular week. LJ will progressively get more carries, perhaps even getting over 50% in some games. Priest will play the first offensive down of every game.

Prediction time: in two games this season Priest will once again take the team on his back and through sheer force of will get a victory. Also, in two games this season LJ will break a game open and take the team on his back.

With both in the backfield it's like having both a Jedi Knight and a Sith Lord carrying the ball (gratuitous SW reference for gochiefs)

mlyonsd
09-12-2005, 08:46 AM
Just my .02 but I noticed most of Priest's running plays were pitches where he ran laterally and tried to pick his own hole.

I thought LJ's touches were more up the gut where he got the ball going forward to a pre-defined hole.

Is it just me or did anyone else notice this?

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 08:48 AM
Just my .02 but I noticed most of Priest's running plays were pitches where he ran laterally and tried to pick his own hole.

I thought LJ's touches were more up the gut where he got the ball going forward to a pre-defined hole.

Is it just me or did anyone else notice this?
That's the style of each one of them. It's pretty much the norm I think. Larry is a bruiser, Priest is a bouncer.

...and you said "pick his own hole..."

heh, heh...

Skip Towne
09-12-2005, 08:55 AM
Keep the rotation like it is. We score too damn quick with LJ in there. It doesn't give the D time to rest. :p

Raiderhader
09-12-2005, 08:55 AM
I have always had a hard time criticizing DV for his extreme loyalty to people, because I tend to be the same way. That is about to become apparent in this post.

Short of Priest getting hurt, there is no way I give LJ the start this season. As the season goes on I may increase his carries some, but only to a max of a 50/50 split. And not even that so long as he continues to keep his current attitude of, "this is working and it is good." Priest has been our go to guy, the real reason our O has been so deadly. With our best receiver being a TE those first years, only the magnificent play of Holmes could have made us the threat we were. In '03 he scored more points than anybody else in the leauge, including kickers. It was his heart that brought us back and gave us hope in the Minnesota game that year (even though it turned out that even his heart was not big enough to cover for our D). In a year when we hope to make a serious run at the SB, I think we owe to Holmes to let him keep the starting job. After all, we are where we are in large part because of him. Then next year we switch up, let LJ start and let Priest become the change of pace back.

Just my sentimental opinion of course.

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 09:00 AM
I have always had a hard time criticizing DV for his extreme loyalty to people, because I tend to be the same way. That is about to become apparent in this post.

Short of Priest getting hurt, there is no way I give LJ the start this season. As the season goes on I may increase his carries some, but only to a max of a 50/50 split. And not even that so long as he continues to keep his current attitude of, "this is working and it is good." Priest has been our go to guy, the real reason our O has been so deadly. With our best receiver being a TE those first years, only the magnificent play of Holmes could have made us the threat we were. In '03 he scored more points than anybody else in the leauge, including kickers. It was his heart that brought us back and gave us hope in the Minnesota game that year (even though it turned out that even his heart was not big enough to cover for our D). In a year when we hope to make a serious run at the SB, I think we owe to Holmes to let him keep the starting job. After all, we are where we are in large part because of him. Then next year we switch up, let LJ start and let Priest become the change of pace back.

Just my sentimental opinion of course.
Well said... and I agree UNLESS we aren't playing our best players enough and therefor doing everything we can to win each game. I'm a sentimental fool at times... but I'd hate to lose because we weren't playing our best players in favor of playing favorites... or something like that.

Raiderhader
09-12-2005, 09:03 AM
Well said... and I agree UNLESS we aren't playing our best players enough and therefor doing everything we can to win each game. I'm a sentimental fool at times... but I'd hate to lose because we weren't playing our best players in favor of playing favorites... or something like that.


Well clearly, if Priest starts sucking ass and costing us games, yeah a change will need to be made this season.

But I am not too concerned about that prospect.

stevieray
09-12-2005, 09:06 AM
two backs, almost two hundred yards.

Good job, Al.

Chiefnj
09-12-2005, 09:06 AM
If Roaf is out then the Chiefs won't be able to go outside as well. In that case it might be better to switch roles and give LJ the 2:1 ratio.

Gaz
09-12-2005, 09:09 AM
If Roaf is out then the Chiefs won't be able to go outside as well. In that case it might be better to switch roles and give LJ the 2:1 ratio.

Good point.

Johnson did his damage mostly in 2TE sets, if I recall correctly.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure the big old sweep works without big old Roaf.

NewChief
09-12-2005, 09:15 AM
If Roaf is out then the Chiefs won't be able to go outside as well. In that case it might be better to switch roles and give LJ the 2:1 ratio.

Same could be said for TRich being out as well. I think Priest is more effective with TRich as his lead blocker. LJ is more capable of hitting the hole solo.

MOhillbilly
09-12-2005, 09:19 AM
IMO LJ is the type of ball carrier that wins championships,young and punishes defenders.
Id like to see LJ get the majority of the carries the rest of the season,make him feel like a valued part of the team and have him ink a longterm deal,and cut or trade PH after 05.

MOhillbilly
09-12-2005, 09:21 AM
LJ is more capable of hitting the hole solo.

couldnt agree more.

Skip Towne
09-12-2005, 09:24 AM
Sentiment has no place in the NFL.. Remember how quick SF canned Joe Montana in favor of Steve Young? And Montana certainly wasn't done. Same with Marcus Allen and the Fade.

mlyonsd
09-12-2005, 09:26 AM
...and you said "pick his own hole..."



I just about changed that when typing it but figured I'd leave it in to see which prevert would be the first to catch it. Congrats, you win the prize. ROFL

Dr. Chief
09-12-2005, 09:29 AM
I agree with all of those that think we need to keep LJ angry.

I predict a SI cover with Priest and LJ within the next month.

penchief
09-12-2005, 10:25 AM
Well, because it's built upon the supposition that we're going to wear Priest out and if someone is going to get worn out and injured from wear, I'd rather it be Priest than LJ at this point.

I'm not sure that it's even possible to wear LJ out. He thrives on punishing the defense. The dude is 25 and has only had one full year as a starter (senior year at PSU). Can you imagine what he'd be capable of when he's allowed to get in a groove?

We may be looking at a superstar. We need to seriously think about the future. This guy is not someone who is all about the money. He's a superb athelete and a big-time football player. He loves the competition and he loves to play. It's time he gets the chance to prove his worth. From what I can tell, there's still a big upside to what he can do. I don't think we've seen anything yet.

Calcountry
09-12-2005, 10:28 AM
I think an angry Johnson is better right now than a happy Johnson.. ROFL

redbrian
09-12-2005, 10:34 AM
I like Larry's take on the duo, he calls it "The Church Backfield, Priest Prays, Larry buries"

Calcountry
09-12-2005, 10:35 AM
I agree with all of those that think we need to keep LJ angry.

I predict a SI cover with Priest and LJ within the next month.Good coaches know what buttons to push to make players take it to the next level. Some guys, you can't piss off like DV did LJ with the diapers comment.

But, as time passes, we will look back on that "comment" by DV and see it as the spark that lit a fire under a special, talented, players butt.

I even think LJ may be the kind of player to realize it at some point in the future. He may never admit it though. But even on ESPN, every time one of his great runs are being shown, they throw the "the diapers are off" comment in there.

Stay angry LJ! You show DV that you da man dammit!

htismaqe
09-12-2005, 10:44 AM
I don't think Johnson's motivation is a concern at all.

You can tell by looking at him, he takes a perverse enjoyment in running over people. He looked downright pissed...

Skip Towne
09-12-2005, 10:47 AM
Good coaches know what buttons to push to make players take it to the next level. Some guys, you can't piss off like DV did LJ with the diapers comment.

But, as time passes, we will look back on that "comment" by DV and see it as the spark that lit a fire under a special, talented, players butt.

I even think LJ may be the kind of player to realize it at some point in the future. He may never admit it though. But even on ESPN, every time one of his great runs are being shown, they throw the "the diapers are off" comment in there.

Stay angry LJ! You show DV that you da man dammit!
I ain't buying the "lit a fire " theory. LJ averaged more than 8 yds per carry at Penn State. Vermeil was just too stubborn to realize what he had. LJ probably wouldn't be playing now if Vermeil hadn't been forced to play him due to injury.

NewChief
09-12-2005, 10:48 AM
I'm not sure that it's even possible to wear LJ out. He thrives on punishing the defense. The dude is 25 and has only had one full year as a starter (senior year at PSU). Can you imagine what he'd be capable of when he's allowed to get in a groove?

We may be looking at a superstar. We need to seriously think about the future.

I think it's foolish to think you can't wear someone out in the NFL. Look at all the stud running backs that have been injured or worn out in their careers. I agree that LJ is the future, and that's exactly what I'm thinking of when I say we should continue to start Priest and have them share the load pretty heavily. I think he's absolutely a stud, and I admit I get more excited when he's in the game than when Priest is in, but I like the way this is playing out right now. Later in the season, if Priest becomes unproductive, then start giving LJ the lion's share. As long as we're still getting workhorse productivity out of Priest, then keep him in there and keep Johnson healthy and fresh for the stretch.

htismaqe
09-12-2005, 10:53 AM
I think it's foolish to think you can't wear someone out in the NFL. Look at all the stud running backs that have been injured or worn out in their careers. I agree that LJ is the future, and that's exactly what I'm thinking of when I say we should continue to start Priest and have them share the load pretty heavily. I think he's absolutely a stud, and I admit I get more excited when he's in the game than when Priest is in, but I like the way this is playing out right now. Later in the season, if Priest becomes unproductive, then start giving LJ the lion's share. As long as we're still getting workhorse productivity out of Priest, then keep him in there and keep Johnson healthy and fresh for the stretch.

It's amazing just how far things have come...

We've now seen a post that suggests using PRIEST to keep JOHNSON healthy.

ROFL

Mile High Mania
09-12-2005, 10:54 AM
It's amazing just how far things have come...

We've now seen a post that suggests using PRIEST to keep JOHNSON healthy.

ROFL

That is wild, but KC has a damn sweet RB duo...

Donger
09-12-2005, 10:57 AM
Out of curiousity, who are the top five ranked run defense teams in the NFL?

4th and Long
09-12-2005, 11:12 AM
I predict a SI cover with Priest and LJ within the next month.
NOOOOOOOO!!!

Remember what happened last time?

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2003/1117_large.jpg

Our 9-0 streak went bye bye at the hands of the Bungles!

Keep us off the damn cover! That jinx works and I want no part of it!

Pitt Gorilla
09-12-2005, 11:17 AM
I ain't buying the "lit a fire " theory. LJ averaged more than 8 yds per carry at Penn State. Vermeil was just too stubborn to realize what he had. LJ probably wouldn't be playing now if Vermeil hadn't been forced to play him due to injury.I think it has played out well. LJ wasn't ready to play and he didn't. As he learned from one of the best and matured, he got better.

Gaz
09-12-2005, 11:25 AM
I think it has played out well. LJ wasn't ready to play and he didn't. As he learned from one of the best and matured, he got better.

I agree with that.

xoxo~
Gaz
Pleased with the outcome.

penchief
09-12-2005, 11:29 AM
I think it's foolish to think you can't wear someone out in the NFL. Look at all the stud running backs that have been injured or worn out in their careers. I agree that LJ is the future, and that's exactly what I'm thinking of when I say we should continue to start Priest and have them share the load pretty heavily. I think he's absolutely a stud, and I admit I get more excited when he's in the game than when Priest is in, but I like the way this is playing out right now. Later in the season, if Priest becomes unproductive, then start giving LJ the lion's share. As long as we're still getting workhorse productivity out of Priest, then keep him in there and keep Johnson healthy and fresh for the stretch.

I understand what you are saying and somewhat agree. My point is that LJ is not only young, he's fresh, been under-utilized his entire career, and is physical freak with a highly competetive attitude.

Don't get me wrong, I have always loved Priest Holmes. I was a running back myself and I was inspired to be one by Ed Podolak. In fact my three favorite RB's of all-time are Podolak, Terry Metcalf, and Priest Holmes. I think that the most beautiful play in football is the 11 yard run and Priest is the master.

I had completely lost interest in PSU football until I noticed this crazy kid running wild every week. It just got to the point where I had to watch their games because you felt like every time the kid touched the ball something special was going to happen. Now, Chief fans are getting that feeling. IMO, he's a future superstar.

Having said that, I just sense that there are too many whose loyalty toward Priest will not allow them to give LJ his due. I see too many posts where the credit is being given to so and so for blowing open a hole or LJ's ability being downplayed because nobody touched him, etc. The kid really is something special. There has never been a time that he didn't do what he's doing now. There are going to be times when his dominance is going to be the difference in a close game. We need to make sure that we are utilizing him correctly.

JMO.

Gaz
09-12-2005, 11:35 AM
Changing of the Guard?

No. Or at least, not yet.

We saw a young RB have a great day, but he is not replacing Holmes as the designated starter. He will [and should] get more carries as the season progresses and may well share the starting role by the end of the year.

Johnson is the future, but Holmes is still the starter for now.

xoxo~
Gaz
Would not be surprised if the guard changed by next opening day.

Dr. Chief
09-12-2005, 11:57 AM
NOOOOOOOO!!!

Remember what happened last time?

http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2003/1117_large.jpg

Our 9-0 streak went bye bye at the hands of the Bungles!

Keep us off the damn cover! That jinx works and I want no part of it!

I didn's say I wanted it, I'm just predicting it.

Calcountry
09-12-2005, 11:58 AM
I think it's foolish to think you can't wear someone out in the NFL. Look at all the stud running backs that have been injured or worn out in their careers. I agree that LJ is the future, and that's exactly what I'm thinking of when I say we should continue to start Priest and have them share the load pretty heavily. I think he's absolutely a stud, and I admit I get more excited when he's in the game than when Priest is in, but I like the way this is playing out right now. Later in the season, if Priest becomes unproductive, then start giving LJ the lion's share. As long as we're still getting workhorse productivity out of Priest, then keep him in there and keep Johnson healthy and fresh for the stretch.Part of the reason he is playing well, IMHO, is that he wasn't expected to produce so much so fast. He has been allowed to gradually work his way in there.

He is at his prime right now. I don't see much more upside with LJ without the reps. It might be time to convince Holmes to step aside at the end of the year. In the meantime, it is nice haveing the one to back the other up. Last year, Holmes went out and it was "there goes the season." That is not true this year.

Calcountry
09-12-2005, 11:59 AM
Johnson is the future, but Holes is still the starter for now.
My kids really like that movie.

4th and Long
09-12-2005, 12:51 PM
I didn's say I wanted it, I'm just predicting it.
Don't care. :shake:

Shhhhhh. Make those predictions in your head. :)

tk13
09-12-2005, 01:11 PM
As I said in the other thread, I was extremely pleased with how it worked out yesterday. Maybe LJ should get a carry or two more, but really I think it was just about perfect. I think the law of diminishing returns comes into play if you start jacking up LJ's carries too much. If you give Priest or Larry 25-30 carries, they aren't going to get 200 yards a game individually. If you give them both 30 carries a game, I think Priest can give you 20-100 and Larry can give you 10-100 on a lot of Sundays. There's no doubt Priest still has the speed to put up 150 yards on any given day, as does LJ.

I like the way it keeps both guys fresh though. I think if you really want to think about the future, this is the best way to do it. We've got the best RB of this decade, he's still got it, he ripped off his longest run in 3 years right off the bat yesterday. No reason to bench him for 7-8 carries a game yet. LJ's a great change of pace, you give him 10-12 carries fresh and he can put up some monster numbers. After chasing Priest Holmes around, having to try and stand up LJ chugging through the middle is quite a change-up. I think having Priest set-up LJ makes LJ better, as opposed to just sending LJ up the middle 20 times a game and hoping for the best.

Dr. Facebook Fever
09-12-2005, 01:13 PM
As I said in the other thread, I was extremely pleased with how it worked out yesterday. Maybe LJ should get a carry or two more, but really I think it was just about perfect. I think the law of diminishing returns comes into play if you start jacking up LJ's carries too much. If you give Priest or Larry 25-30 carries, they aren't going to get 200 yards a game individually. If you give them both 30 carries a game, I think Priest can give you 20-100 and Larry can give you 10-100 on a lot of Sundays. There's no doubt Priest still has the speed to put up 150 yards on any given day, as does LJ.

I like the way it keeps both guys fresh though. I think if you really want to think about the future, this is the best way to do it. We've got the best RB of this decade, he's still got it, he ripped off his longest run in 3 years right off the bat yesterday. No reason to bench him for 7-8 carries a game yet. LJ's a great change of pace, you give him 10-12 carries fresh and he can put up some monster numbers. After chasing Priest Holmes around, having to try and stand up LJ chugging through the middle is quite a change-up. I think having Priest set-up LJ makes LJ better, as opposed to just sending LJ up the middle 20 times a game and hoping for the best.
well said... you sold me.

4th and Long
09-12-2005, 01:14 PM
As I said in the other thread, I was extremely pleased with how it worked out yesterday. Maybe LJ should get a carry or two more, but really I think it was just about perfect. I think the law of diminishing returns comes into play if you start jacking up LJ's carries too much. If you give Priest or Larry 25-30 carries, they aren't going to get 200 yards a game individually. If you give them both 30 carries a game, I think Priest can give you 20-100 and Larry can give you 10-100 on a lot of Sundays. There's no doubt Priest still has the speed to put up 150 yards on any given day, as does LJ.

I like the way it keeps both guys fresh though. I think if you really want to think about the future, this is the best way to do it. We've got the best RB of this decade, he's still got it, he ripped off his longest run in 3 years right off the bat yesterday. No reason to bench him for 7-8 carries a game yet. LJ's a great change of pace, you give him 10-12 carries fresh and he can put up some monster numbers. After chasing Priest Holmes around, having to try and stand up LJ chugging through the middle is quite a change-up. I think having Priest set-up LJ makes LJ better, as opposed to just sending LJ up the middle 20 times a game and hoping for the best.
Dead on! :clap: :thumb:

StcChief
09-12-2005, 01:29 PM
Keep it the same, maybe a few more. Not 50-50 yet.

We need both for later this season.

PastorMikH
09-12-2005, 02:42 PM
I'd be interested to see a split back set with both Priest and LJ in the backfield.

4th and Long
09-12-2005, 02:44 PM
I'd be interested to see a split back set with both Priest and LJ in the backfield.
Per some of DV's preseason comments, you'll get your wish eventually. :)

PastorMikH
09-12-2005, 02:47 PM
Per some of DV's preseason comments, you'll get your wish eventually. :)


Really? I missed those comments. I'm thinking that both behind Green, one on either side, Green steps back, turns, hands the ball, and both backs take off in different directions. OR both split out to opposite flats and Green throw to the one with the least coverage.