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View Full Version : Uh-oh, W does the unthinkable, accepts responsiblity for Katrina failure


memyselfI
09-13-2005, 01:14 PM
Let's see how the lambs here reconcile the 'don't blame Bush' mantra with his accepting responsibility. :hmmm: BTW, kudos to him for recognizing his failure and not dodging it as his previous M.O.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050913/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_washington_14

Bush Takes Responsibility for Blunders By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 24 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that "I take responsibility" for failures in dealing with Hurricane Katrina and said the disaster raised broader questions about the government's ability to respond to natural disasters as well as terror attacks.


"Katrina exposed serious problems in our response capability at all levels of government," Bush said at joint White House news conference with the president of Iraq.

"To the extent the federal government didn't fully do its job right, I take responsibility," Bush said.

The president was asked whether people should be worried about the government's ability to handle another terrorist attack given failures in responding to Katrina.

"Are we capable of dealing with a severe attack? That's a very important question and it's in the national interest that we find out what went on so we can better respond," Bush replied.

He said he wanted to know both what went wrong and what went right.

As for blunders in the federal response, "I'm not going to defend the process going in," Bush said. "I am going to defend the people saving lives."

He praised relief workers at all levels. "I want people in America to understand how hard people worked to save lives down there," he said.

Bush spoke after R. David Paulison, the new acting director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency, pledged to intensify efforts to find more permanent housing for the tens of thousands of Hurricane Katrina survivors now in shelters.

It was the closest Bush has come to publicly finding fault with any federal officials involved in the hurricane response, which has been widely criticized as disjointed and slow. Some federal officials have sought to fault state and local officials for being unprepared to cope with the disaster.

Bush planned to address the nation Thursday evening from Louisiana, where he will be monitoring recovery efforts, the White House announced earlier Tuesday.

Paulison, in his first public comments since taking the job on Monday, told reporters: "We're going to get those people out of the shelters, and we're going to move and get them the help they need."

Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff introduced Paulison as the Bush administration tried to deflect criticism for the sluggish initial federal response to the hurricane and its disastrous aftermath.

Chertoff said that while cleanup, relief and reconstruction from Katrina is now the government's top priority, the administration would not let down its guard on other potential dangers.

"The world is not going to stop moving because we are very focused on Katrina," Chertoff said.

Paulison, named to the post on Monday, said he was busy "getting brought up to speed."

He replaced Michael Brown, who resigned on Monday, three days after being removed from being the top onsite federal official in charge of the government's response.

Paulison said Bush called him Monday night and "thanked me for coming on board."

Bush promised that he would have "the full support of the federal government," Paulison said.

Chertoff said the relief operation had entered a new phase.

Initially, he said, the most important priority was evacuating people, getting them to safety, providing food, water and medical care.

" And then ultimately at the end of the day, we have to reconstitute the communities that have been devastated," Chertoff added.

He said the federal government would look increasingly to state and local officials for guidance on rebuilding the devastated communities along the Gulf Coast.

"The federal government can't drive permanent solutions down the throats of state and local officials," Chertoff said. "I don't think anyone should envision a situation in which they're going to take a back seat. They're going to take a front seat," he said.

Chertoff said that teams of federal auditors were being dispatched to the stricken areas to make sure that billions of dollars worth of government contracts were being properly spent. "We want to get aid to people who need it quickly, but we also don't want to lose sight of the importance of preserving the integrity of the process and our responsibility as stewards of the public money," Chertoff said.

"We're going to cut through red tape," he said, "but we're not going to cut through laws and rules that govern ethics."

Meanwhile, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld said that some military aircraft and other equipment may be able to move out of the Gulf Coast soon.

"We've got to the point where most if not all of the search and rescue is completed," said Rumsfeld, who is attending a NATO meeting in Berlin. "Some helicopters can undoubtedly be moved out over the period ahead."

He also said there is a very large surplus of hospital beds in the region, so those could also be decreased. The USS Comfort hospital ship arrived near the Mississippi coast late last week. Rumsfeld added that nothing will be moved out of the area without the authorization of the two states' governors, the military leaders there and the president.

Elsewhere, workers with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention aren't finding many sick people, even though the specter of diseases has alarmed relief and rescue figures. Instead, between 40 and 50 percent of patients seeking emergency care have injuries. The CDC has counted 148 injuries in just the last two days, Carol Rubin, an agency hurricane relief specialist, said by telephone from the government's new public health headquarters in New Orleans' Kindred Hospital.

While she couldn't provide a breakdown, Rubin said chain saw injuries and carbon monoxide exposure from generators are among them. Those are particularly worrisome because they're likely to become more common as additional hurricane survivors re-enter the city in coming days, she said.

The message: Those injuries are preventable, if people take proper precautions, Rubin stresse

NewChief
09-13-2005, 01:18 PM
Good job, W.

dirk digler
09-13-2005, 01:23 PM
Praise Allah!

Phobia
09-13-2005, 01:29 PM
Let's see how the lambs here reconcile the 'don't blame Bush' mantra with his accepting responsibility. :hmmm: BTW, kudos to him for recognizing his failure and not dodging it as his previous M.O.

Okay - I'm a little confused by this response. Are you offering up unconditional praise for GWB? Is that what you're doing here?

memyselfI
09-13-2005, 01:33 PM
Okay - I'm a little confused by this response. Are you offering up unconditional praise for GWB? Is that what you're doing here?

Hey there, I wouldn't go that far. I am giving him credit and kudos for no longer denying the obvious or continuing the incredulous effort to try to spin the FED response as anything other than failure...

but then when faced with overwhelming evidence that the entire world can see it looks alittle silly to try to maintain otherwise for long. So good for him for acknowledging that spin wasn't going to work and removing those rose colored shades.

Now if he'd just smell the coffee about some of his other bonehead decisions.

Chief Henry
09-13-2005, 01:38 PM
YOu don't see mayor Nagin or the Govenor stepping up to the plate! I wonder why :hmmm:

the Talking Can
09-13-2005, 01:38 PM
why would he apologise?

according the people here he did nothing wrong...in fact, he was exemplary...and Brown was the perfect choice to head FEMA


sounds like a liberal media conspiracy to me...I bet any minute now gays will be knocking on Big Daddies door....

Phobia
09-13-2005, 01:41 PM
but then when faced with overwhelming evidence that the entire world can see

Hey there, I wouldn't go that far. Overwhelming evidence? In the era of Fast Food, FedEx, and the internet, people expect a McDonalds arrival of support. It's not quite that simple. You mention "the entire world".... Uh - I'm pretty sure there are quite a few countries who would welcome aid in 3 years' time, much less 3 frick'n days.

Phobia
09-13-2005, 01:42 PM
why would he apologise?

according the people here he did nothing wrong...in fact, he was exemplary...and Brown was the perfect choice to head FEMA


sounds like a liberal media conspiracy to me...I bet any minute now gays will be knocking on Big Daddies door....

Who said that? Clearly Brown was an idiot - in over his head.

memyselfI
09-13-2005, 01:44 PM
Hey there, I wouldn't go that far. Overwhelming evidence? In the era of Fast Food, FedEx, and the internet, people expect a McDonalds arrival of support. It's not quite that simple. You mention "the entire world".... Uh - I'm pretty sure there are quite a few countries who would welcome aid in 3 years' time, much less 3 frick'n days.

Actually, during the Tsuami the Asian Nations had aid within 2-3 days to not only some of the poorest parts of the region but also to the area that had been entwined in war and had been rather isolated from the world, Banda Aceh.

memyselfI
09-13-2005, 01:45 PM
why would he apologise?

according the people here he did nothing wrong...in fact, he was exemplary...and Brown was the perfect choice to head FEMA


sounds like a liberal media conspiracy to me...I bet any minute now gays will be knocking on Big Daddies door....

Wait, he said he takes responsibility. He didn't say he was sorry...

I think there is a difference there. One I'm sure his apologists will jump to point out. Lest he actually be sorry about his errors.

Phobia
09-13-2005, 01:48 PM
Actually, during the Tsuami the Asian Nations had aid within 2-3 days to not only some of the poorest parts of the region but also to the area that had been entwined in war and had been rather isolated from the world, Banda Aceh.

The only things the Asian Tsunami and Katrina have in common are:
1. Water disaster.
2. Coastal flooding.

Everything else is different including the advance warning.

memyselfI
09-13-2005, 01:50 PM
The only things the Asian Tsunami and Katrina have in common are:
1. Water disaster.
2. Coastal flooding.

Everything else is different including the advance warning.

Which makes their effort all the more remarkable. And the failure of the FEDS (especially given that Bush Sr. had fugged up in Andrew in a similiar fashion) and FEMA all the more deplorable.

Phobia
09-13-2005, 02:01 PM
Which makes their effort all the more remarkable. And the failure of the FEDS (especially given that Bush Sr. had fugged up in Andrew in a similiar fashion) and FEMA all the more deplorable.

Oh - thanks for being predictable.

Did Bush FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER activate the convening authority BEFORE the hurrcane hit?

I'll assume that you know the vast differences between a hurricane and a tsunami so I don't have to point out the numerous logistical problems experienced by relief efforts in a hurricane not encountered in a tsunami. Not only that, but the below sea level problem of New Orleans simply compounds matters.

I'd kinda like to stop blaming anybody for this disaster. Let's move forward and learn from it, not hang everybody out to dry ('scuse the reference).

oldandslow
09-13-2005, 02:34 PM
Oh - thanks for being predictable.

Did Bush FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER activate the convening authority BEFORE the hurrcane hit?

I'll assume that you know the vast differences between a hurricane and a tsunami so I don't have to point out the numerous logistical problems experienced by relief efforts in a hurricane not encountered in a tsunami. Not only that, but the below sea level problem of New Orleans simply compounds matters.

I'd kinda like to stop blaming anybody for this disaster. Let's move forward and learn from it, not hang everybody out to dry ('scuse the reference).

Phob...

I am going to agree with you here. The blame card has been played by both sides and it has not done a damn thing to fix the situation. Firing (resigning) Mike Brown and admitting that changes MUST be made are steps in the right direction.

I just wish the dems, for once, would offer up an alternative plan. I am tired of just blaming the opposition. Come out for something else. Write it up. Campaign on it. By God, you might just win an election with it.

Pitt Gorilla
09-13-2005, 02:40 PM
Clearly Brown was an idiot - in over his head. Why was he appointed to head up FEMA? I can't see how a person who is "in over his head" and an "idiot" would be a good choice for emergency management.

Phobia
09-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Why was he appointed to head up FEMA? I can't see how a person who is "in over his head" and an "idiot" would be a good choice for emergency management.
Who the hell knows? People are given political positions as favors or debt repayment all the time and they aren't qualified. I'm not defending anybody. I know it happens and this time the Piper demanded payment.

Mr. Kotter
09-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Why was he appointed to head up FEMA? I can't see how a person who is "in over his head" and an "idiot" would be a good choice for emergency management.

He interviews well?

He filled an affirmative action "need?"

He got lazy/stupid all of a sudden?

These things happen in the rest of the working world; government wouldn't be immune. :shrug:

penchief
09-13-2005, 02:48 PM
Good job, W.

Agreed. I hate feeling shitty about our leaders. I was driving in the car when I heard this and it gave me warm fuzzy. For once, I felt good about George W. Bush, the man.

penchief
09-13-2005, 03:11 PM
Who the hell knows? People are given political positions as favors or debt repayment all the time and they aren't qualified. I'm not defending anybody. I know it happens and this time the Piper demanded payment.

And some people who aren't qualified are chosen for political candidacy as a favor in lieu of future debt repayment. There is no better example of this than George W. Bush. The energy industry, corporate America, right-wing religious fundamentalists, and the elements of greed certainly got their money's worth when they put their money behind GWB.

JMO.

NewChief
09-13-2005, 03:15 PM
Phil,

We know you're not trying to banish the DC forum to the hinterlands. You don't have to become an active participant here to prove it. You've got to be feeling dirty after such a protracted discussion in this backwater.;)

Phobia
09-13-2005, 03:16 PM
Phil,

We know you're not trying to banish the DC forum to the hinterlands. You don't have to become an active participant here to prove it. You've got to be feeling dirty after such a protracted discussion in this backwater.;)

Heh heh. Slow couple of days. Have a big project ramping up Thursday, so I have some paperwork at the office.

Mr. Kotter
09-13-2005, 03:25 PM
And some people who aren't qualified are chosen for political candidacy as a favor in lieu of future debt repayment. There is no better example of this than George W. Bush. The energy industry, corporate America, right-wing religious fundamentalists, and the elements of greed certainly got their money's worth when they put their money behind GWB.

JMO.

This is precisely the sort of thing I'm talking about in the "moved" thread: irrational partisan demagoguery.

Failing to recognize that this could be rewritten 5 years ago, by the opposing side....and be just as ludicrous.....doesn't stop some from believing it though. And it reminds me why I'm feeling slimey for posting as much here today, as I have in total during the last two weeks or so. :rolleyes:

For example:

And some people who aren't qualified are chosen for political candidacy as a favor in lieu of future debt repayment. There is no better example of this than William Jefferson Clinton. The American Bar Association, organized labor, left-wing secular humanist radicals, and the elements of socialism certainly got their money's worth when they put their money behind Clinton.

Taco John
09-13-2005, 04:03 PM
Way to go Mr. President.

Y'all screwed up, but I'm comforted knowing that you know you screwed up. It actually makes me feel more secure, because now I know things are truly being done to fix it.

Way to swallow some pride and admit the obvious. Nice work.

penchief
09-13-2005, 04:29 PM
This is precisely the sort of thing I'm talking about in the "moved" thread: irrational partisan demagoguery.

Failing to recognize that this could be rewritten 5 years ago, by the opposing side....and be just as ludicrous.....doesn't stop some from believing it though. And it reminds me why I'm feeling slimey for posting as much here today, as I have in total during the last two weeks or so. :rolleyes:

For example:

Just because you can say it doesn't mean that the facts support your case nor mine. However, I'd believe that this president is a lot more extreme than was the middle of the road, pragmatic Clinton.

The results speak for themselves.

By the way, did you see my post right above the one you quoted? Bush really did make me feel good today. For some reason I believed he was sincere. He may be fooling me but I believe he really is sincere and that means a lot.

Mr. Kotter
09-13-2005, 04:45 PM
Just because you can say it doesn't mean that the facts support your case nor mine. However, I'd believe that this president is a lot more extreme than was the middle of the road, pragmatic Clinton.

The results speak for themselves.

By the way, did you see my post right above the one you quoted? .....

You just don't get it, man. I didn't make the statmement, you did. I wouldn't make that statement, because NEITHER of those statements can be backed up by real facts.....only conjecture, hyperbole, and guilt through association type accusations.

I would not make EITHER of those statements. That's my point. I simply don't like partisans (of either side) who engage in personal attacks and smear campaigns based on speculation and opinion they offer as "facts"--especially when their side is often just as guilty--it is hypocritical bullshit of the lowest kind.

FTR, I defended Clinton all the way up to the blue dress; and I have chastised conservative extremists who were in the "Vince Foster conspiracy and coverup" and the "White Water is the next Watergate" types. Bash-Clinton and bash-Bush folks are different sides of the same coin--that's all.

Area 51
09-13-2005, 05:25 PM
Hey there, I wouldn't go that far. I am giving him credit and kudos for no longer denying the obvious or continuing the incredulous effort to try to spin the FED response as anything other than failure...
.

Do a little research for me. What was the FED response to the last, say 5 big Hurricanes?

What was the time line of when the NG showed up after they had been federalized?

What you will find is that the response time on this disaster was faster than all of them in the past (I didn't look at Charlie last year, I was comparing other Administrations response times).

Give it your best shot naysayer (memyselfi).

Area 51
09-13-2005, 05:26 PM
Way to go Mr. President.

Y'all screwed up, but I'm comforted knowing that you know you screwed up. It actually makes me feel more secure, because now I know things are truly being done to fix it.

Way to swallow some pride and admit the obvious. Nice work.

The screw up you are referring to is the media placing blame without doing any research.

It would be nice if you could swallow your pride and admit that you are an insufferable asshole, but that would be too much to ask, now wouldn't it?

Taco John
09-13-2005, 06:19 PM
The screw up you are referring to is the media placing blame without doing any research.




Uh, no sorry.

Bush is admitting to real stuff... Not imaginary stuff.

Saulbadguy
09-13-2005, 06:22 PM
Finally.

penchief
09-13-2005, 06:29 PM
You just don't get it, man. I didn't make the statmement, you did. I wouldn't make that statement, because NEITHER of those statements can be backed up by real facts.....only conjecture, hyperbole, and guilt through association type accusations.

I would not make EITHER of those statements. That's my point. I simply don't like partisans (of either side) who engage in personal attacks and smear campaigns based on speculation and opinion they offer as "facts"--especially when their side is often just as guilty--it is hypocritical bullshit of the lowest kind.

FTR, I defended Clinton all the way up to the blue dress; and I have chastised conservative extremists who were in the "Vince Foster conspiracy and coverup" and the "White Water is the next Watergate" types. Bash-Clinton and bash-Bush folks are different sides of the same coin--that's all.

Absolutely the claims against Bush being a corporate lackey can be backed up by facts. I don't need to recite them because any high school graduate with eyes and ears can figure that out for themselves.

Duck Dog
09-13-2005, 10:37 PM
Which makes their effort all the more remarkable. And the failure of the FEDS (especially given that Bush Sr. had fugged up in Andrew in a similiar fashion) and FEMA all the more deplorable.

As if the Tsunami relief effort was disected as much as Katrina. :rolleyes:

Mr. Kotter
09-13-2005, 10:46 PM
Absolutely the claims against Bush being a corporate lackey can be backed up by facts...


You are gonna back up an OPINION with "facts," eh?

In your world, accusations, conjecture, and hyperbole seem to qualify as "facts." So I suppose you can, in your mind.

I assure you others could do the same with "facts" about the guys you support. Mighty impressive, ain't it?

tk13
09-13-2005, 11:20 PM
I think what's sad is there are some people, even some in this very thread, that appear to be using this horrible event as an opportunity to criticize a president they don't support being in office. I guess it's admirable Bush said this, but I think at the same time it's kinda pointless. There are a lot of people who screwed up in this, not just Bush. Really I don't think he personally did much wrong. He called for a state of emergency situation before the hurricane even hit land, he was well aware of what was going to happen, just the people underneath him screwed up, and there are things that happened that would've been screwed up regardless of who the President was. He obviously shouldn't be absolved from blame, but him doing this really doesn't make me feel any better either way about the whole situation.

go bowe
09-13-2005, 11:59 PM
president bush declared the state of emergency the same day it was requested by the gov of la, on saturday before the storm hit...

at that point he could have ordered fema to take control of the evacuation and provision of food and water to the people trapped in the city, and i think in hindsight, he should have...

a qualified emergency manager would have insisted on it, regardless of the political niceties between the white house and the gov of la...

i put the blame squarely on the fema guy for not insisting on an immediate and massive military response by federal troops (not national guard) as soon as the emergency was declared...

elements of the 82d airborne (or some other "ready" unit) could have been there in a matters of hours, if they had been ordered to prepare when the state of emergency was declared...

the military could have performed the evacuation of the people left behind in new orleans much, much better than the national guard and/or local officials did...

i hope that the military is prepared to move when the next disaster hits and that whoever is in charge of fema will be a professional emergency manager with a set of balls who will insist on military assistance from the get go...

tk13
09-14-2005, 12:54 AM
Yeah, but what some people are forgetting is that the situation was not at it's worst until almost a full day after Sunday, when the levees decided to start breaching. Up until that point, things weren't great but it wasn't the dire situation it was once the levees gave out. To me that is the critical juncture of all this that no one is even talking about. Nagin wanted National Guard helicopters there to get the levee breaches sandbagged, but somebody somewhere along the way re-routed that helicopter for rescue operations and the levee was just left to let water all through the city. Somebody screwed up there big time. If that could've been prevented, 80% of the city would not have been underwater and recovery/cleanup would've gone much, much more efficiently.

In my book things were not handled that poorly from Sunday to Monday, it's from early Tuesday morning on where people did not take the levee breaches seriously enough is where it got rough. That should not have happened, and once that did all hell really broke loose. Nobody took that seriously, not the government, not the public, not the media, not anybody. I even said that during that day, this was a bad situation and nobody seemed to realize it until about Wednesday. I think the whole thing reeks from top to bottom, from inept government communication to people casting stones for purely political reasons when they themselves were underestimating the nature of the problem.

go bowe
09-14-2005, 12:57 AM
Yeah, but what some people are forgetting is that the situation was not at it's worst until almost a full day after Sunday, when the levees decided to start breaching. Up until that point, things weren't great but it wasn't the dire situation it was once the levees gave out. To me that is the critical juncture of all this that no one is even talking about. Nagin wanted National Guard helicopters there to get the levee breaches sandbagged, but somebody somewhere along the way re-routed that helicopter for rescue operations and the levee was just left to let water all through the city. That is not President Bush's fault. If that could've been prevented, 80% of the city would not have been underwater and recovery/cleanup would've gone much, much more efficiently.

In my book things were not handled that poorly from Sunday to Monday, it's from early Tuesday morning on where people did not take the levee breaches seriously enough is where it got rough. That should not have happened, and once that did all hell really broke loose. Nobody took that seriously, not the government, not the public, not the media, not anybody. I even said that during that day, this was a bad situation and nobody seemed to realize it until about Wednesday. I think the whole thing reeks from top to bottom, from inept government communication to people casting stones for purely political reasons when they themselves were underestimating the nature of the problem.commie... :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

tk13
09-14-2005, 01:00 AM
Well nobody's ever gonna agree on any of this because it boils down to how much responsibility each level of government should have in a situation like this, and we'd never get any kind of agreement on that, let alone how well each level of government did their job.

go bowe
09-14-2005, 01:01 AM
no, seriously, i can't argue with anything you've said...

i just think the military should have been on standby so that once the levees broke they could move immediately...

and i agree with you about the helicopters being diverted, but i don't know if it would have mattered...

it took many days to sandbag the breaches once they got started and by then it would have been too late to stop the flood anyway...

but you're right about the blame game for political reasons, there's too much of it altogether...

go bowe
09-14-2005, 01:17 AM
Well nobody's ever gonna agree on any of this because it boils down to how much responsibility each level of government should have in a situation like this, and we'd never get any kind of agreement on that, let alone how well each level of government did their job.well, the policy makers are going to have to come up with some way to marshall and deploy massive resources when a major natural disaster is imminent...

whether it was the hurricane or the storm surge created by the hurricane leading to the break in the levees, new orleans is a major city and the severity of the threat which would affect a very large number of people should have led to faster mobilization of resources...

this sort of thing is no run of the mill emergency...

when it can involve up to a million people, i would hope that the next time the response will be immediate and massive on the federal level...

local and state police officials and the national guard should carry out as much search and rescue as they can until the military arrives and then they should deal with any problems involving civil disorder...

the national guard should not be federalized in these situations, like some called for after the levees broke, because as state troops, they can perform law enforcement functions and provide security to civilian rescuers until the federal troops arrive...

but in a disaster of this magnitude, the feds/military should carry out any remaining evacuation and provision of supplies to people trapped and awaiting rescue...

clearly, a disaster of this magnitude is way beyond the resources of state and local officials (although i would hope that local emergency plans will now be amended to include provisions for evacuating those unable to leave on their own and prepositioning)...

they screwed up lots of things in this whole mess, to be sure, and those screw ups should be addressed and corrected for the next time...

but i still think you must be a commie... :p :p :p

alanm
09-14-2005, 02:46 AM
Phob...

I am going to agree with you here. The blame card has been played by both sides and it has not done a damn thing to fix the situation. Firing (resigning) Mike Brown and admitting that changes MUST be made are steps in the right direction.

I just wish the dems, for once, would offer up an alternative plan. I am tired of just blaming the opposition. Come out for something else. Write it up. Campaign on it. By God, you might just win an election with it.
That won't happen, not in my lifetime anyway. Not when it's easier to point fingers and lay blame.

Area 51
09-14-2005, 07:22 AM
Uh, no sorry.

Bush is admitting to real stuff... Not imaginary stuff.

Go ahead and blame the President for things that were not under his immediate control.

The biggest errors are that the city and state failed miserably to handle the evacuation. The federal government is not the first line of action in events such as this. The President is taking the heat because he is the President. You do a great job of pointing fingers yet you have no urgency to do anything but bitch about it here.

Your point of view is just that, your point of view. It is just as unreliable as the next persons.

The stories that are getting out the loudest come from those that write fiction with the best of them. They are all working for the liberal media and wordmaster their stories to stay with their political standing. Not unlike many of the less capable writers here.

It's all :BS:!!

Logical
09-14-2005, 10:27 PM
...

He filled an affirmative action "need?"
...http://www.fema.gov/graphics/about/t_brown.jpg

Is that some sort of bizarre joke?

memyselfI
09-15-2005, 08:19 AM
Go ahead and blame the President for things that were not under his immediate control.

The biggest errors are that the city and state failed miserably to handle the evacuation. The federal government is not the first line of action in events such as this. The President is taking the heat because he is the President. You do a great job of pointing fingers yet you have no urgency to do anything but bitch about it here.



So, the FEDS are the first line of defense for a terror disaster but not a natural disaster? Basically, they've manuevered their way into scaring people into giving up rights under their pretext of being helpful in their efforts to assist in a preventing a terror disaster or helping resolve one if one happens?

But since Mother Nature is involved in a natural disaster somehow the state and local people are all of a sudden the main resource in such a disaster? The FEDS are around simply to provide backup?

I'm sorry but that is not FEMA's charter at all. Their own website claims otherwise. You can stomp and hurl diversions all you want but that does not change the facts of what the department of FEMA was created, and expected, to do.

memyselfI
09-15-2005, 08:21 AM
well, the policy makers are going to have to come up with some way to marshall and deploy massive resources when a major natural disaster is imminent... :clap:

whether it was the hurricane or the storm surge created by the hurricane leading to the break in the levees, new orleans is a major city and the severity of the threat which would affect a very large number of people should have led to faster mobilization of resources...

this sort of thing is no run of the mill emergency... :clap:

when it can involve up to a million people, i would hope that the next time the response will be immediate and massive on the federal level... :clap:

local and state police officials and the national guard should carry out as much search and rescue as they can until the military arrives and then they should deal with any problems involving civil disorder... :clap:

the national guard should not be federalized in these situations, like some called for after the levees broke, because as state troops, they can perform law enforcement functions and provide security to civilian rescuers until the federal troops arrive... :clap:

but in a disaster of this magnitude, the feds/military should carry out any remaining evacuation and provision of supplies to people trapped and awaiting rescue... :clap: :clap:

clearly, a disaster of this magnitude is way beyond the resources of state and local officials (although i would hope that local emergency plans will now be amended to include provisions for evacuating those unable to leave on their own and prepositioning)... :clap:

they screwed up lots of things in this whole mess, to be sure, and those screw ups should be addressed and corrected for the next time...

but i still think you must be a commie... :p :p :p


Bravo. Makes too much sense though. And it's expecting the FEDs to do their jobs which apparently is asking too much.

The state and local goverments also need to do their jobs but when you have a multi-state disaster then the coordination and response needs to come from the top and not some patchwork system based on luck of the draw and time or place.

Area 51
09-15-2005, 11:18 AM
So, the FEDS are the first line of defense for a terror disaster but not a natural disaster? Basically, they've manuevered their way into scaring people into giving up rights under their pretext of being helpful in their efforts to assist in a preventing a terror disaster or helping resolve one if one happens?

But since Mother Nature is involved in a natural disaster somehow the state and local people are all of a sudden the main resource in such a disaster? The FEDS are around simply to provide backup?

I'm sorry but that is not FEMA's charter at all. Their own website claims otherwise. You can stomp and hurl diversions all you want but that does not change the facts of what the department of FEMA was created, and expected, to do.

Why didn't you call foul when the reaction times were worse on other natural disasters? The FEDS response to this hurricane was faster than all others in recent history yet you still want to blame someone for... what, not doing what you personally think they should be doing?

Terror attacks are not a disaster as in a natural disaster. You are trying to do the apple and orange thing to confuse the issue.

Why do I even reply to someone that has no conscience of what is right and wrong?

memyselfI
09-15-2005, 11:24 AM
Why didn't you call foul when the reaction times were worse on other natural disasters? The FEDS response to this hurricane was faster than all others in recent history yet you still want to blame someone for... what, not doing what you personally think they should be doing?

Terror attacks are not a disaster as in a natural disaster. You are trying to do the apple and orange thing to confuse the issue.

Why do I even reply to someone that has no conscience of what is right and wrong?

Wow, the FEDS response was 'faster' than any previous disaster and yet 1. it should be and 2. it was still not proportionate to the level of the disaster.

So yipee, you get 1 point for being them a quick shot. -2 for not shooting in the right direction.

Area 51
09-15-2005, 11:33 AM
Wow, the FEDS response was 'faster' than any previous disaster and yet 1. it should be and 2. it was still not proportionate to the level of the disaster.

So yipee, you get 1 point for being them a quick shot. -2 for not shooting in the right direction.


:BS:


The Federal response to a disaster is not graded by idiots (you). Just because you think that they should have been first does not mean that they are required to be. Just because you think they failed to respond in the manner you felt appropriate does not "shooting in the right direction".

Get off your soapbox and give up on your slamming of the government.

memyselfI
09-15-2005, 11:36 AM
:BS:


The Federal response to a disaster is not graded by idiots (you). Just because you think that they should have been first does not mean that they are required to be. Just because you think they failed to respond in the manner you felt appropriate does not "shooting in the right direction".

Get off your soapbox and give up on your slamming of the government.

Actually, I don't care if they are first or not. They need to be efficient whenever they get there...

the fact that FEMA's charter states they are the primary resource during disasters should not be forgotten. I think we should make them keep their word regardless if it's a Dem or Con in charge.

WilliamTheIrish
09-15-2005, 11:53 AM
I think what's sad is there are some people, even some in this very thread, that appear to be using this horrible event as an opportunity to criticize a president they don't support being in office. I guess it's admirable Bush said this, but I think at the same time it's kinda pointless. There are a lot of people who screwed up in this, not just Bush. Really I don't think he personally did much wrong. He called for a state of emergency situation before the hurricane even hit land, he was well aware of what was going to happen, just the people underneath him screwed up, and there are things that happened that would've been screwed up regardless of who the President was. He obviously shouldn't be absolved from blame, but him doing this really doesn't make me feel any better either way about the whole situation.


You could have stopped at the bolded part.

Area 51
09-15-2005, 12:46 PM
Actually, I don't care if they are first or not. They need to be efficient whenever they get there...

the fact that FEMA's charter states they are the primary resource during disasters should not be forgotten. I think we should make them keep their word regardless if it's a Dem or Con in charge.

So what you are saying is that it is OK for the city, county and state governments to be less than effecient in dealing with their own disasters? Leave it up to the government to take care of our problems, that is basically the welfare mentality.

Referring back to another of your posts where you indicated that the feds took the lead immediately after the terrorist strikes. You are woefully wrong. The NYPD, NYFD and the Mayor took immediate action. They did not plan for such an event but flew into action immediately. FEMA came in just as soon as they could with the needed medical supplies and other items that were needed.

Your attitude is one of an instant response fully loaded yet you are probably one of the first to stand up and shout down with the military when it comes to saving money and cutting the budget. Where do you think the lions share of the assets come from in situations that call for federal help? I know, Mr. Wizard does his thing. Drizzle, Drazzle, Druzzle Drone, time for meme to go home!!

memyselfI
09-15-2005, 12:59 PM
So what you are saying is that it is OK for the city, county and state governments to be less than effecient in dealing with their own disasters? Leave it up to the government to take care of our problems, that is basically the welfare mentality.

Referring back to another of your posts where you indicated that the feds took the lead immediately after the terrorist strikes. You are woefully wrong. The NYPD, NYFD and the Mayor took immediate action. They did not plan for such an event but flew into action immediately. FEMA came in just as soon as they could with the needed medical supplies and other items that were needed.




Give the Mayah of NY a hand. He took over as first responder for a TEN MILE RADIUS...

not thousands of miles and numerous states. When it does encompass an area that large the FEDS do need to be the primary resource of relief.