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dtebbe
09-25-2005, 02:51 PM
Quit acting like a neighbor jealous over the next door guys' lawn tractor. He's a playa' and if he were a chief we'd all love him. Just admit it, the jealous banter is BS...

DT

Simplex3
09-25-2005, 02:53 PM
You really want that guy at QB? Sorry man, I'm not with you.

KcMizzou
09-25-2005, 02:54 PM
He's exciting as hell to watch. I just prefer a more conventional, drop-back passer.

Halfcan
09-25-2005, 03:03 PM
Vick sucks. He can run but can't pass worth a shit.,

4th and Long
09-25-2005, 03:07 PM
Apparently you haven't a clue nor did you see this article on Vick's not so impressive stats.

We feel bad for ESPN “pundit” and former NFL quarterback Sean Salisbury, who recently released his list of the league’s top 10 offensive players.

We feel bad for him because, as far as we can tell, Salisbury was forced by ESPN management to create this list against his will and better judgment. After all, how do you explain it when a “pundit” sticks a pigskin pitchfork through his own reputation and then jumps up and down on its limp, bloody carcass, squeezing out every last oozing ounce of credibility? Clearly, he was under orders from a higher power to create a list that was strong on hype and controversy yet weak on credibility and Cold, Hard Football Facts.

Michael Vick, for example, landed at No. 7 on the list. Salisbury described the Atlanta quarterback as “the ultimate weapon in the NFL.” That’s funny. We looked at the Cold, Hard Football Facts and found that “the ultimate weapon” has all the firepower of a dime-store bottle rocket. In fact, in a four-year career, Vick has accounted for just 49 touchdowns. It’s solid, yes, but hardly worthy of the hyperbolic praise “ultimate weapon” or a spot on the list of top 10 offensive players in the NFL.

Salisbury’s credibility apparently tripped over upper management diktat and the years of ESPN-generated Vick hype we’ve been forced to endure since the quarterback came out of Virginia Tech in 2001. The hype, put most simply, is out of all proportion to Vick’s actual performances on the field. Yes, Vick is one of the most thrilling players in football. But that excitement masks actual onfield production which can only aspire to be mediocre some day.

For example, 23 QBs tossed more touchdown passes than Vick (14) last year. Twenty-five quarterbacks passed for more yardage than Vick (2,313) – including Arizona’s Josh McCown and Tennessee’s Billy Volek, who started just eight games in 2004.

But wait a minute, Cold, Hard Football Facts dude, you’re forgetting that Vick is one of the most feared ballcarriers in the NFL. Yes, he is. But even if we include his three TD runs (count ‘em, 3), it turns out that 20 quarterbacks last year accounted for more trips to the end zone than Vick did both rushing and passing (17 total). Even aging warhorse Vinny Testaverde – now out of football – got the ball in the end zone more often than “the ultimate weapon” (17 TD passes, 1 TD run) in 2004.

If we look at receivers and running backs, we find that 22 players, including running backs Shaun Alexander and LaDanian Tomlinson, put the ball in the end zone more often last year than Salisbury’s “ultimate weapon.”

And what about total yardage? Vick must be near the top of the list. After all, as Salisbury pointed out, he’s a threat “with his legs and his arm.” Well, Vick passed for 2,313 yards and ran for 902 – that’s a total of 3,215 yards of offense last year. Sixteen quarterbacks, including players like Joey Harrington, who’s in danger of losing his job in Detroit, accounted for more yards of offense than Salisbury’s “ultimate weapon.”

To recount Vick’s place in the NFL offensive hierarchy last year:
23 quarterbacks passed for more TDs
25 quarterbacks passed for more yardage
20 quarterbacks passed and ran for more TDs
22 offensive players put the ball in the end zone more often
16 quarterbacks accounted for more yards of offense
But we’re not even sure Vick’s inclusion on the list was the worst of Salisbury’s mistakes. Of course, you know our default position: any list that that puts the Picasso of Choke Artists, Peyton Manning, ahead of transcendent postseason performer Tom Brady is automatically invalid. Brady is No. 10 on Salisbury’s list. Manning is No. 1.

Apparently, Salisbury has chosen to follow the Pete Prisco path of pigskin analysis, walking into a stone wall of Cold, Hard Football Facts that refute his hypothesis and opting to simply ignore them. Salisbury’s top offensive weapon in the NFL has posted a Craig Krenzel-esque 55.4 passer rating in five playoff losses. Apparently, Salisbury doesn’t watch playoff football.

Salisbury was lavish in his praise of Brady, saying that no quarterback since Joe Montana “has more poise” and adding that “I don’t think his championship run is done.” In other words, Salisbury believes Brady will become just the third quarterback to win four Super Bowls, or perhaps the first to win five. Still, he doesn’t merit the lofty ranking of the most overhyped player in sports or the most inconsistent postseason performer in NFL history.

Other than that, it was a nice job.

link (http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Article.php?Page=366)

Archie F. Swin
09-25-2005, 03:12 PM
I like Trent's brain more than Vick's feet

Halfcan
09-25-2005, 03:26 PM
To sumarize 4th and long-VICK SUCKS!

Tribal Warfare
09-25-2005, 03:27 PM
Vick's a great athlete, but he isn't a QB.

Cochise
09-25-2005, 03:31 PM
I'll take Green over Black Jesus any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Skip Towne
09-25-2005, 03:39 PM
How bad did we beat him last year? I forget.

Valiant
09-25-2005, 03:40 PM
Quit acting like a neighbor jealous over the next door guys' lawn tractor. He's a playa' and if he were a chief we'd all love him. Just admit it, the jealous banter is BS...

DT


Are you on crack??? Vick does average for once and he is to be feared??? The guy is a average QB at best... He needs to be a WR if he wants to be feared...

the Talking Can
09-25-2005, 03:40 PM
he threw for a 170 yards today...a career high?

the Talking Can
09-25-2005, 03:41 PM
Quit acting like a neighbor jealous over the next door guys' lawn tractor. He's a playa' and if he were a chief we'd all love him. Just admit it, the jealous banter is BS...

DT

that's Mr. Ron Mexico to you...

Cochise
09-25-2005, 03:41 PM
He's the next Kordell Stewart.

I can't wait to see him wash out with the Bears in a couple years.

4th and Long
09-25-2005, 03:43 PM
How bad did we beat him last year? I forget.
56-10 ROFL

Cochise
09-25-2005, 03:46 PM
if he were a chief we'd all love him.

By the way, no I effing wouldn't. I would wonder why we can't get a QB who can post a better rating than Trent Dilfer and be leading the 'draft a QB' campaign.

Phobia
09-25-2005, 03:57 PM
My neighbor has a really nice lawn tractor with all the accessories. In fact, he spends about 20 hours a week riding that tractor around a half acre yard. I feel sorry for him. I wouldn't want his tractor, his wife, or his house. I'd like his boat, though. Yeah.

chagrin
09-25-2005, 04:27 PM
Quit acting like a neighbor jealous over the next door guys' lawn tractor. He's a playa' and if he were a chief we'd all love him. Just admit it, the jealous banter is BS...

DT


Here's my problem with your post and obviously your mind set, and others that type and talk just like you.

Dude, HTF old are you?
I don't know exactly why - folks (like me) who don't buy in to the hype of Vick and don't believe everything we hear on TV or read in the sports page are being "jealous". If it has something to do with him being rich, I guess I should hate every athlete in the NFL, MLB, NHL and NBA.

And WTF is a "playa" and don't bring me some stupid slang dictionary either. Explain to me why Mr. Vick is a "playa" and we are all "jealous".

I am only 36 years old, but have no idea why one is a "hater" because some dude is supposedly a "playa" meanwhile tossing up ducks all day and running for 75 yards, oh, and eking out a few good wins in a shitty division...God forbid him ever becoming a CHIEF!

KCFalcon59
09-25-2005, 04:50 PM
he's a playa and he gots the herp

Spicy McHaggis
09-25-2005, 04:57 PM
Yeah I can think of quite a few QB's I'd rather have other than Vick.

Simplex3
09-25-2005, 05:00 PM
Yeah I can think of quite a few QB's I'd rather have other than Vick.
In no particular order:

C. Palmer
T. Dilfer
D. McNabb (barely)
M. Bulger
M. Hasselbeck
B. Rothlissssssbergererererer
D. Culpepper (barely)
B. Leftwich
T. Green
S. McNair
D. Brees
P. Manning
J. Delhomme

Yeah, that should just about do it. There are several more that I would call a 50/50 shot with Vick.

redhed
09-25-2005, 05:00 PM
The next Kordell Stewart. Now that's funny! rep!
Vick is an average QB, even for an RB in disguise.

Simplex3
09-25-2005, 05:05 PM
The next Kordell Stewart. Now that's funny! rep!
Vick is an average QB, even for an RB in disguise.
He isn't tough enough to be a RB. Dude is a flaky WR.

JOhn
09-25-2005, 05:14 PM
Quit acting like a neighbor jealous over the next door guys' lawn tractor. He's a playa' and if he were a chief we'd all love him. Just admit it, the jealous banter is BS...

DT
Damn that has got to be the lamest ting I've ever seen you post :shake:

But since I usually like your posts, I'll give you a mulligan on this one.





Vick? ROFL ROFL ROFL

Logical
09-25-2005, 05:49 PM
I definitely would not want Vick on my team. I will take a Trent Green before a Vick anyday.

KCChiefsMan
09-25-2005, 05:57 PM
Vick leads his team to win, every year he's played for them all year they have won. take a look at Vick's winning % and I bet you may reconsider your thoughts about him. sure he doesn't throw for 300 yds and 3 or 4 TD per game, but his team wins with him. You take Vick off of the team and they start losing, plain and simple

Skip Towne
09-25-2005, 05:59 PM
I want to win a SB and I don't think Vick will ever win one.

milkman
09-25-2005, 06:02 PM
Vick leads his team to win, every year he's played for them all year they have won. take a look at Vick's winning % and I bet you may reconsider your thoughts about him. sure he doesn't throw for 300 yds and 3 or 4 TD per game, but his team wins with him. You take Vick off of the team and they start losing, plain and simple

The Falcons are a solid NFC team, and in Vick, they have a QB that doesn't lose games for them, as they did with the scrubs that replaced him while he was injured.

But if I want a QB that can lead my team to a win, I'm not going to ask Vick to be that guy.

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2005, 07:04 PM
Vick is a great QB...when you look at the final results he wins football games for his team offensively. And I really don't have any other way to put to you folks then to explain that stats don't win football games. Ask Peyton Manning...ask Priest Holmes, who once gained 300 plus yards in a game once...the Chiefs lost that day. I'll take Vick that "sucks" but gets my team deep in the playoffs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

the Talking Can
09-25-2005, 07:08 PM
Vick is a great QB...when you look at the final results he wins football games for his team offensively. And I really don't have any other way to put to you folks then to explain that stats don't win football games. Ask Peyton Manning...ask Priest Holmes, who once gained 300 plus yards in a game once...the Chiefs lost that day. I'll take Vick that "sucks" but gets my team deep in the playoffs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

given your QB situation, I can understand how much you pine for a winner....

Count Alex's Losses
09-25-2005, 07:09 PM
Vick is a great QB...when you look at the final results he wins football games for his team offensively. And I really don't have any other way to put to you folks then to explain that stats don't win football games. Ask Peyton Manning...ask Priest Holmes, who once gained 300 plus yards in a game once...the Chiefs lost that day. I'll take Vick that "sucks" but gets my team deep in the playoffs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

Vick will never win a Super Bowl until he learns how to effectively read a defense.

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2005, 07:11 PM
given your QB situation, I can understand how much you pine for a winner....


If I could have Vick at Qb for the Broncos I would...No doubt, but I graduated from Virginia Tech...so I'm bias.

Simplex3
09-25-2005, 07:11 PM
Vick is a great QB...when you look at the final results he wins football games for his team offensively. And I really don't have any other way to put to you folks then to explain that stats don't win football games. Ask Peyton Manning...ask Priest Holmes, who once gained 300 plus yards in a game once...the Chiefs lost that day. I'll take Vick that "sucks" but gets my team deep in the playoffs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
It's one thing to say the guy can win some games, it's another to say we're all jealous. I listed out more than 10 guys earlier, most of them just win and they do it better with less risk than Vick.

Vick is made of freaking glass. Has the guy gone a full year yet? Hard to "just win" from the bench.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-25-2005, 07:16 PM
Vick is a great QB...when you look at the final results he wins football games for his team offensively. And I really don't have any other way to put to you folks then to explain that stats don't win football games. Ask Peyton Manning...ask Priest Holmes, who once gained 300 plus yards in a game once...the Chiefs lost that day. I'll take Vick that "sucks" but gets my team deep in the playoffs every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

I bet Vick and the Falcons thank God everyday that they are in the weak NFC.

They win, yes, as a team. But Vick is the most overrated PLAYER in the NFL in the last 10 years, IMO, so far.

He's not where he needs to be to be a Super Bowl winning QB, IMO, yet. Once he learns how to read D's, throw the ball with better accuracy, and just overall shows CONSISTENTCY on a week-to-week basis, I'll give him props. And once he does put it all together, look out. But I wouldn't be scared of him right now, he's a faster Randall Cunningham. That's not impressive.

I'm not hating, I'm just saying he's not the player that deserves all the hype he gets...not yet anyway.

tk13
09-25-2005, 07:17 PM
I'll give him props. He may be a bit overhyped, but at least he wins. I think he does make a big difference. The Falcons were terrible the year he was hurt, and with him they were the first team to win a playoff game in Lambeau a few years back, and last year were one game from the Super Bowl. He's definitely not conventional but you can't argue against the record. Just the threat of him on the field seems to be enough to scare a lot of teams. Our game against him last year doesn't sway me either way, we've beat a lot of great players over the years... Elway, Young, Favre, Warner when he was great... doesn't mean they aren't pretty effective QB's. I'm not sure Vick is gonna be out there doing this at 35 years old, he'll have to learn how to throw more effectively, but he's got time to figure it out.

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2005, 07:21 PM
It's one thing to say the guy can win some games, it's another to say we're all jealous. I listed out more than 10 guys earlier, most of them just win and they do it better with less risk than Vick.

Vick is made of freaking glass. Has the guy gone a full year yet? Hard to "just win" from the bench.

ROFL

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235253

Come on dude...he barely played his rookie season until Chandler went down...he started all of the next season...then is lost for all but 4 games his third season with what amounted to a broken leg...and played all of last season. Plus there was an offensive system change in the middle. He's started 39 games though today. Glass you say? Hardley...I've seen this guy take the shots...and he gets back up and wins football games. He's a big time player....it's not a matter of if...but when he and the Falcons win a championship.

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2005, 07:23 PM
.....this at 35 years old, he'll have to learn how to throw more effectively, but he's got time to figure it out.


And he's 26 years old now with 4 seasons under his belt and effectively played three full seasons

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2005, 07:28 PM
I bet Vick and the Falcons thank God everyday that they are in the weak NFC.

They win, yes, as a team. But Vick is the most overrated PLAYER in the NFL in the last 10 years, IMO, so far.

He's not where he needs to be to be a Super Bowl winning QB, IMO, yet. Once he learns how to read D's, throw the ball with better accuracy, and just overall shows CONSISTENTCY on a week-to-week basis, I'll give him props. And once he does put it all together, look out. But I wouldn't be scared of him right now, he's a faster Randall Cunningham. That's not impressive.

I'm not hating, I'm just saying he's not the player that deserves all the hype he gets...not yet anyway.


Every QB in the league needs to get better at reading defenses. And he does throw a good ball...another huge misconception. Arrowhead is tough place to play for you folks who only remember that game...or it highlights their memory.

milkman
09-25-2005, 07:29 PM
And he's 26 years old now with 4 seasons under his belt and effectively played three full seasons

He's played effectively, but he hasn't yet been an effective, consistent passer.

Until he becomes an effective passing QB, the chances are very slim he'll be a SB QB.

Chiefs Pantalones
09-25-2005, 07:31 PM
Every QB in the league needs to get better at reading defenses. And he does throw a good ball...another huge misconception. Arrowhead is tough place to play for you folks who only remember that game...or it highlights their memory.

I don't think you understand.

Vick can't read a defense AT ALL.

He's dumber than shit. :p

Demonpenz
09-25-2005, 07:34 PM
he is a better left handed qb than plummer thats for sure

Garcia Bronco
09-25-2005, 07:37 PM
I don't think you understand.

Vick can't read a defense AT ALL.

He's dumber than shit. :p

Now...now...you know that not true:harumph:

SNR
09-25-2005, 07:40 PM
I'd rather have Jake Plummer than Mike Vick

Okay, maybe not.

Rausch
09-25-2005, 07:43 PM
Vick is the most talented average QB I've ever seen...

the Talking Can
09-25-2005, 07:59 PM
if Atlanta was in the AFC they'd never make it to the playoffs...

KCChiefsMan
09-26-2005, 02:19 AM
The Falcons are a solid NFC team, and in Vick, they have a QB that doesn't lose games for them, as they did with the scrubs that replaced him while he was injured.

But if I want a QB that can lead my team to a win, I'm not going to ask Vick to be that guy.


no, they couldn't win with the scrubs that replaced him, that was my point

Miles
09-26-2005, 02:25 AM
Every QB in the league needs to get better at reading defenses. And he does throw a good ball...another huge misconception. A

He throws a good ball as in a hard, tight spiral but his touch and accuracy are well below average.

KCChiefsMan
09-26-2005, 02:27 AM
Vick only started 2 games his rookie year, and they went 7-9
2002: Vick starts 15 games, they went 9-6-1, made the playoffs
2003: Vick out most of the year with an injury, the team (with the scrubs who can do just as good of a job) went 5-11, but Vick started the last 4 games of the season and they won 3 out of those 4
2004: Vick starts 15 games, they went 11-5, went one game away from the Superbowl, the only game Vick was out, they lost.

I'm sorry but I have to respect the winning %, he won't get any respect from any of you until he puts up Peyton Manning numbers where the passing stats look pretty

Miles
09-26-2005, 02:29 AM
no, they couldn't win with the scrubs that replaced him, that was my point

Its a good one too. For some reason its heavily overlooked. Replacing an even average starting QB with some scrub will have a huge impact on what their offense can do.

Miles
09-26-2005, 02:37 AM
I'm sorry but I have to respect the winning %, he won't get any respect from any of you until he puts up Peyton Manning numbers where the passing stats look pretty

Im hardly asking for manning mumbers but his passing numbers are among some of the worst. In 15 games last year he had 2313 yds 14 TD 12INT.

Nice passing stats.

Fruit Ninja
09-26-2005, 02:44 AM
Im hardly asking for manning mumbers but his passing numbers are among some of the worst. In 15 games last year he had 2313 yds 14 TD 12INT.

Nice passing stats.
The only i mean ONLY thing that matters is the WIns and Loses. He is a winner plain and simple. There is no other way to put it. He wins. It doesnt matter how ugly how sloppy it is. Just as long as you win. Hell i know i would love to win the uggliest game i ever seen if that game was the chiefs in the superbowl.

Miles
09-26-2005, 02:48 AM
The only i mean ONLY thing that matters is the WIns and Loses. He is a winner plain and simple. There is no other way to put it. He wins. It doesnt matter how ugly how sloppy it is. Just as long as you win. Hell i know i would love to win the uggliest game i ever seen if that game was the chiefs in the superbowl.

So you think Ben Roethlisberger is the best QB in the league?

Pants
09-26-2005, 02:57 AM
So you think Ben Roethlisberger is the best QB in the league?

Hahaha, OWNED.

tk13
09-26-2005, 03:02 AM
So you think Ben Roethlisberger is the best QB in the league?
Yeah but that's different. The Steelers run a very run-based offense, Ben doesn't have to "lead" the offense. There is no doubt Vick is the "leader" of that ATL offense, because he obviously passes the ball, and he's their most dangerous running threat. He makes things happen, all the time.

Pants
09-26-2005, 03:07 AM
Yeah but that's different. The Steelers run a very run-based offense, Ben doesn't have to "lead" the offense. There is no doubt Vick is the "leader" of that ATL offense, because he obviously passes the ball, and he's their most dangerous running threat. He makes things happen, all the time.

Yeah, but winning and losing doesn't make one the best QB. If the Falcons have a better record than Indy, it doesn't mean that Vick is a better QB than Manning.

tk13
09-26-2005, 03:16 AM
Yeah, but winning and losing doesn't make one the best QB. If the Falcons have a better record than Indy, it doesn't mean that Vick is a better QB than Manning.
It doesn't, but it also doesn't mean Vick sucks. Vick is an explosive weapon, he clearly helps his team win games. He doesn't do it like Manning does, but he's obviously the catalyst for an offense that has had regular season and playoff success. It's not like he's out there killing his team all the time.

Pants
09-26-2005, 03:27 AM
It doesn't, but it also doesn't mean Vick sucks. Vick is an explosive weapon, he clearly helps his team win games. He doesn't do it like Manning does, but he's obviously the catalyst for an offense that has had regular season and playoff success. It's not like he's out there killing his team all the time.

No one is saying he sucks as a weapon. People stated that he is a superior athlete, I agree that he wins games for his team, the argument, however is - Vick is not a good quaterback.

NJ Chief Fan
09-26-2005, 03:28 AM
marcus vick is gonna be better

tk13
09-26-2005, 03:33 AM
No one is saying he sucks as a weapon. People stated that he is a superior athlete, I agree that he wins games for his team, the argument, however is - Vick is not a good quaterback.
Why not? Where's the definition that a quarterback has to be like Peyton Manning to be effective? He may not be the best QB in the league, but he's effective enough from the QB position to help win games for his team.

Pants
09-26-2005, 03:36 AM
He may not be the best QB in the league...

Gald we agree, lol.

Miles
09-26-2005, 03:56 AM
Yeah but that's different. The Steelers run a very run-based offense, Ben doesn't have to "lead" the offense. There is no doubt Vick is the "leader" of that ATL offense, because he obviously passes the ball, and he's their most dangerous running threat. He makes things happen, all the time.

Im not advocating that Vick is terrible. He can make a lot of things happen in a game but i just think he is hardly deserving of the praise he gets. When you consider everything he has to offer it equals out to being an above average QB at best.

tk13
09-26-2005, 04:02 AM
Im not advocating that Vick is terrible. He can make a lot of things happen in a game but i just think he is hardly deserving of the praise he gets. When you consider everything he has to offer it equals out to being an above average QB at best.
Ehh maybe. I don't know if I'd say "hardly deserving", he's accomplished quite a bit for such a short career. I mean he's already to the point where the next step is taking his team to the Super Bowl. He shouldn't be in the Pats/Brady's class but he's probably the level below it, at least in my book.

Miles
09-26-2005, 04:12 AM
Ehh maybe. I don't know if I'd say "hardly deserving", he's accomplished quite a bit for such a short career. I mean he's already to the point where the next step is taking his team to the Super Bowl. He shouldn't be in the Pats/Brady's class but he's probably the level below it, at least in my book.

I'll admit that I think all of the hype around him really messes with my opinion of him. He is essentially regarded by the media as being in the class of Brady, McNabb, Farve and Manning but I just dont see him being anywhere near that. Much less the best player in the game as the media will sometimes claim.

Edit:

I also think that Vick got all of the credit last season when Dunn had an nice season and their defense was solid.

Fruit Ninja
09-26-2005, 04:42 AM
So you think Ben Roethlisberger is the best QB in the league?
At this point and time, he is one of the better quarterbacks, yes! Just look at his numbers.

I think Brady is the best quarterback in the league. His 3 rings will also agree.

edit- to show show some numbers that prove he is a top tier qb in the nfl

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A LNG TD TD% INT INT% SACK YDS RAT
Ben Roethlisberger 35 60 688 58.3 11.47 85 6 10.0 0 0.0 5 27 131.

Regular season record is like 18-2 or something close. Who wouldnt want that record?

Fruit Ninja
09-26-2005, 04:48 AM
Hahaha, OWNED.
ONly thing you owned is yourself, because he is one of the better qb's in the league. And he will Only get better. He can pass, he can run, he can evade a sack, he can handle the blitz and he can lead a team. In his first year as a player he has more play off wins then our beloved Chiefs in the last 10 years.

tk13
09-26-2005, 04:54 AM
I'll admit that I think all of the hype around him really messes with my opinion of him. He is essentially regarded by the media as being in the class of Brady, McNabb, Farve and Manning but I just dont see him being anywhere near that. Much less the best player in the game as the media will sometimes claim.

Edit:

I also think that Vick got all of the credit last season when Dunn had an nice season and their defense was solid.
Oh yeah, I think their defense is very underrated. Great front 7. Their D-line can defend the run and rush the passer... Kearney, Rod Coleman's a beast at DT, etc... Hartwell and Brooking at LB. They might be one of the most underrated front 7's in the league. With DeAngelo Hall becoming more of a playmaker maybe they'll become an even better defense... even if they have a G-Rob disciple calling the plays. I still wonder if that had something to do with us gashing them last year.

Pants
09-26-2005, 04:58 AM
ONly thing you owned is yourself, because he is one of the better qb's in the league. And he will Only get better. He can pass, he can run, he can evade a sack, he can handle the blitz and he can lead a team. In his first year as a player he has more play off wins then our beloved Chiefs in the last 10 years.

Yes, he can run.

Miles
09-26-2005, 05:02 AM
At this point and time, he is one of the better quarterbacks, yes! Just look at his numbers.

I think Brady is the best quarterback in the league. His 3 rings will also agree.

edit- to show show some numbers that prove he is a top tier qb in the nfl

NAME CMP ATT YDS CMP% YDS/A LNG TD TD% INT INT% SACK YDS RAT
Ben Roethlisberger 35 60 688 58.3 11.47 85 6 10.0 0 0.0 5 27 131.

Regular season record is like 18-2 or something close. Who wouldnt want that record?

Im not the least bit of a Roethlisberger hater but I think he gets far too much credit for what his teams record has been. Perfect example of a defensive running team and the Qb gets credited as being a "winner". Hell the steelers attempted the least amout of passes in the league last year.

chagrin
09-26-2005, 07:27 AM
marcus vick is gonna be better


You mean "Con"?

chagrin
09-26-2005, 07:29 AM
He can pass, he can run, he can handle the blitz


No, he can't

chagrin
09-26-2005, 07:32 AM
Vick is a great QB...

ROFL
Are you TJ's little brother?

Dude,

Unitas was a GREAT QB, Montana was a GREAT QB, YA Tittle, Sammy Baugh, all GREAT QB's


Vick is not "great"

Cochise
09-26-2005, 07:36 AM
Kordell Stewart (in pittsburgh):
55 games, 12013 yd, 63 TD, 64 INT
2113 yd rushing, 27 TD

Black Jesus:
45 games, 6898 yd, 37 TD, 27 INT
2334 yd rushing, 14 TD

BJ has his work cut out for him, if he's hoping to raise his numbers to Kordell Stewart's level.

Pants
09-26-2005, 08:47 AM
Kordell Stewart (in pittsburgh):
55 games, 12013 yd, 63 TD, 64 INT
2113 yd rushing, 27 TD

Black Jesus:
45 games, 6898 yd, 37 TD, 27 INT
2334 yd rushing, 14 TD

BJ has his work cut out for him, if he's hoping to raise his numbers to Kordell Stewart's level.

OWNED again! ROFL

Cochise
09-26-2005, 08:56 AM
About Vick being a "winner"

Steelers from 1996-2001: 56-40 .583
Falcons from 2001-2005: 32-31-1 .508

Simplex3
09-26-2005, 09:03 AM
Regular season record is like 18-2 or something close. Who wouldnt want that record?
15-1 in games he's started. His only loss was this weekend in a squeeker to the Pats where Cowher coached them out of a win.

Pants
09-26-2005, 09:04 AM
About Vick being a "winner"

Steelers from 1996-2001: 56-40 .583
Falcons from 2001-2005: 32-31-1 .508

YEah, but Vick missed a season.

Simplex3
09-26-2005, 09:05 AM
Kordell Stewart (in pittsburgh):
55 games, 12013 yd, 63 TD, 64 INT
2113 yd rushing, 27 TD

Black Jesus:
45 games, 6898 yd, 37 TD, 27 INT
2334 yd rushing, 14 TD

BJ has his work cut out for him, if he's hoping to raise his numbers to Kordell Stewart's level.
Black Jesus losing big-time to Kordell Freaking Stuart... ROFL

Yeah, Ron's a huge winner... ROFL

Cochise
09-26-2005, 09:08 AM
YEah, but Vick missed a season.

I dont have the info to know what games Stewart started so I just put the teams' records up.

Besides, if B.J. is on the sideline in street clothes he isn't out on da field bein' a playa.

Cochise
09-26-2005, 09:11 AM
Black Jesus losing big-time to Kordell Freaking Stuart... ROFL

Yeah, Ron's a huge winner... ROFL

If he can average 500 passing yards and 3 TD passes over the next 10 games he'll catch up.

I dont know which of those stats is less likely.

Pants
09-26-2005, 09:12 AM
I dont have the info to know what games Stewart started so I just put the teams' records up.

Besides, if B.J. is on the sideline in street clothes he isn't out on da field bein' a playa.

you shuddup now the guys at espn say he is teh suprastar of nfl in teh world!11 hes the best qb cuz he wins games for his team1

Cochise
09-26-2005, 09:13 AM
you shuddup now the guys at espn say he is teh suprastar of nfl in teh world!11 hes the best qb cuz he wins games for his team1

ALL YOUR HERP ARE BELONG TO VICK!!!!!!!!!!

Saulbadguy
09-26-2005, 09:15 AM
I think he will get better, but the hype is kinda overboard. I'd take him over Jake Plummer though. :)

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:03 AM
He throws a good ball as in a hard, tight spiral but his touch and accuracy are well below average.

that's just not true. But believe what you wish

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:04 AM
Vick only started 2 games his rookie year, and they went 7-9
2002: Vick starts 15 games, they went 9-6-1, made the playoffs
2003: Vick out most of the year with an injury, the team (with the scrubs who can do just as good of a job) went 5-11, but Vick started the last 4 games of the season and they won 3 out of those 4
2004: Vick starts 15 games, they went 11-5, went one game away from the Superbowl, the only game Vick was out, they lost.

I'm sorry but I have to respect the winning %, he won't get any respect from any of you until he puts up Peyton Manning numbers where the passing stats look pretty

stats don't win games...that's just the truth of it

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:05 AM
Im hardly asking for manning mumbers but his passing numbers are among some of the worst. In 15 games last year he had 2313 yds 14 TD 12INT.

Nice passing stats.

The only thing that matters is the W

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:07 AM
Yeah, but winning and losing doesn't make one the best QB. If the Falcons have a better record than Indy, it doesn't mean that Vick is a better QB than Manning.

I disagree....since the QB is the field general....his success of lack there of is solely based on wins and losses

Saulbadguy
09-26-2005, 10:07 AM
The only thing that matters is the W
To Bronco fans, that is. QB's don't win games. Teams win games.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:09 AM
marcus vick is gonna be better


This kid amazes more each week. He doesn't make mistakes...throws a nice ball and has touch on his passes. When his brother was a tech...they were a very poor family....but now they have cash....and during his suspension I could only imagine the teaching he received from having a brother in the business.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:10 AM
To Bronco fans, that is. QB's don't win games. Teams win games.

Oy Veh..so winning doesn't matter to chief fans? Please...

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:11 AM
Ehh maybe. I don't know if I'd say "hardly deserving", he's accomplished quite a bit for such a short career. I mean he's already to the point where the next step is taking his team to the Super Bowl. He shouldn't be in the Pats/Brady's class but he's probably the level below it, at least in my book.

and really....what's the difference there?

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:13 AM
ROFL
Are you TJ's little brother?

Dude,

Unitas was a GREAT QB, Montana was a GREAT QB, YA Tittle, Sammy Baugh, all GEAT QB's


Vick is not "great"

Vick is great...as I already said...we went tot he same college...I'll defend him with my last frickin breath if it came to it.

Saulbadguy
09-26-2005, 10:14 AM
Oy Veh..so winning doesn't matter to chief fans? Please...
I don't base a QB's success on a Winning %. Its a useless, garbage stat. Is Ben R the best QB in the league due to his winning %? Hell no. Same with Tom Brady.

Passing Statistics should definately be included in comparisons. If a great QB doesn't have a good offensive line, a defense, or a running game, they won't win as many games. If a mediocre QB has a o-line, defense, running game, etc...they will win more games than the great QB. Its such a useless stat.

Bronco fans only like to wave it around because it somehow vindicates the poor performance by their QB.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:17 AM
I don't base a QB's success on a Winning %. Its a useless, garbage stat. Is Ben R the best QB in the league due to his winning %? Hell no. Same with Tom Brady.

Statistics should definately be included in comparisons. If a great QB doesn't have a good offensive line, a defense, or a running game, they won't win as many games. If a mediocre QB has a o-line, defense, running game, etc...they will win more games than the great QB. Its such a useless stat.

the point is to win games and championships and it's a team effort...but inside of that...the QB runs the offense and is in charge of point production. Vick led teams do a great job. The only thing that matters are W's...that it....Ask Manning if he would trade all the other stuff for a championship? Favre even said himself yesterday....by winning a Super Bowl he's acheived what he needed to retire from the game. Wins and rings that's all that matters.

Saulbadguy
09-26-2005, 10:20 AM
the point is to win games and championships and it's a team effort...but inside of that...the QB runs the offense and is in charge of point production. Vick led teams do a great job. The only thing that matters are W's...that it....Ask Manning if he would trade all the other stuff for a championship? Favre even said himself yesterday....by winning a Super Bowl he's acheived what he needed to retire from the game. Wins and rings that's all that matters.
Of course winning is the only thing that matters, but the QB has nothing to do with certain aspects of the game. What does the QB have to do with the defense? Absolutely nothing. A QB can have a perfect game, but if the defense doesn't step up, he won't get the W.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 10:23 AM
Of course winning is the only thing that matters, but the QB has nothing to do with certain aspects of the game. What does the QB have to do with the defense? Absolutely nothing. A QB can have a perfect game, but if the defense doesn't step up, he won't get the W.

While I understand that....the QB can effect the defense in many ways...specifically turnovers. But back to the topic...Vick runs a good show....and you can't argue with the the wins.

beer bacon
09-26-2005, 10:25 AM
15-1 in games he's started. His only loss was this weekend in a squeeker to the Pats where Cowher coached them out of a win.

He was 12-28 yesterday, and 134 of his 202 passing yards came really early in the game on two passes that had huge yac. He wasn't really helping his team yesterday.

Chief Faithful
09-26-2005, 10:25 AM
I live in Atlanta and watch Vick every week. The guy is effective with his legs, but not as a passer. Eventually he will start to show signs from all the pounding he takes and will lose a step. Thus, I'm not convinced he will ever be more effective than he is today.

He needs to learn to stay in the pocket and go through all his progressions before taking off. He also needs to develop some touch on his passes. Every pass is a bullet even when he trys to drop the ball in a WR's hands 30 yards down the field on a fly pattern.

One thing for sure, I believe Algie Crumpler is second only to Gonzo as an NFL TE. That guy does everything well.

Saulbadguy
09-26-2005, 10:26 AM
While I understand that....the QB can effect the defense in many ways...specifically turnovers. But back to the topic...Vick runs a good show....and you can't argue with the the wins.
I agree that Vick does run a good show, but i'm not even talking about that really. I suppose I am off topic in saying that Wins don't matter. Might as well give a RB a winning % stat.

1punkyQB
09-26-2005, 10:35 AM
Vick's started two years for Atlanta, they went to the 2nd round of the playoffs one year, the championship game in the other. Without him they absolutely stink. What other QB would do better down there?

Chiefs Pantalones
09-26-2005, 10:48 AM
Everyone shut the **** up.

dtebbe
09-26-2005, 12:56 PM
One thing for sure, I believe Algie Crumpler is second only to Gonzo as an NFL TE. That guy does everything well.

I agree, Algie has the biggest ass I have ever seen on a guy, and he uses it very well to keep defenders behind him. It's funny seeing that dunky butt screen out defenders!

DT

chagrin
09-26-2005, 01:31 PM
I agree, Algie has the biggest ass I have ever seen on a guy, and he uses it very well to keep defenders behind him. It's funny seeing that dunky butt screen out defenders!

DT


faig :shake:

chagrin
09-26-2005, 01:35 PM
Vick is great...as I already said...we went tot he same college...I'll defend him with my last frickin breath if it came to it.


Excuse me, "little John". but if you're going to continue to act like your older brother, please use the word Paradigm in all of your posts going forward, thank you!

:p

P.S. WTF does you two going to the same school mean exactly? I hope you are referring to his playing ability and not some "brush with fame" claim.

Finally, as if I expect to get a half ass sane answer on this and not semantics and circular logic, please explain to me what makes a QB "great" and why Vicky is "great"? I am seriously interested in knowing what you have to say to answer this.

chagrin
09-26-2005, 01:36 PM
I'll defend him with my last frickin breath if it came to it.


Umm, don't you have a family that would want you to defend THEM instead?

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 01:39 PM
Excuse me, "little John". but if you're going to continue to act like your older brother, please use the word Paradigm in all of your posts going forward, thank you!

:p

P.S. WTF does you two going to the same school mean exactly? I hope you are referring to his playing ability and not some "brush with fame" claim.

Finally, as if I expect to get a half ass sane answer on this and not semantics and circular logic, please explain to me what makes a QB "great" and why Vicky is "great"? I am seriously interested in knowing what you have to say to answer this.

That I would have to explain the brotherhood to you tells me all that I would ever need to know. Vick is great because his teams win games...that's greatness on a football field.

chagrin
09-26-2005, 01:45 PM
That I would have to explain the brotherhood to you tells me all that I would ever need to know. Vick is great because his teams win games...that's greatness on a football field.


That's exactyl what I expected, nothing.

P.S. are you a brother of Mike Vick, didn't realize that? And on that note, I am a memeber of an actual brotherhood, I don't claim to be a brother of someone I didn't know personally just because he went to the same college as I did. I went to college and there plent of aiisholes I would never claim as brothers, so yes, please explain what your concept of "brotherhood" is and what "brotherhood" you and he are a member of...?

P.S.S. My first cousin Austen is a Va Tech Graduate and could care less about Mr. Vick, other than being proud he went to the NFL and represents his Alma Mater.

Saulbadguy
09-26-2005, 01:46 PM
Go Chokies!!! Gobble gobble!

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 01:59 PM
P.S.S. My first cousin Austen is a Va Tech Graduate and could care less about Mr. Vick, other than being proud he went to the NFL and represents his Alma Mater.
Then why are you trying to break balls.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Go Hokies!!! Gobble gobble!

Nice!

chagrin
09-26-2005, 02:03 PM
Then why are you trying to break balls.


I am only trying to figure out why you would defend him to your last breath, that seems a bit much...I guess I am being a bit confrontational today, just forget it, you have the right to your opinion, I have the right to mine - no need for me to keep pushing.

Carry on then

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 02:11 PM
I am only trying to figure out why you would defend him to your last breath, that seems a bit much...I guess I am being a bit confrontational today, just forget it, you have the right to your opinion, I have the right to mine - no need for me to keep pushing.

Carry on then

Because he's a Hokie and so am I. He helped our school out with his fine athletic QB play.