PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs 30th ranked pass defense?


kcblue555
09-26-2005, 07:53 AM
Patrick Surtain? Sammy Knight? It'll work during the regular season but not in the postseason!

Cochise
09-26-2005, 08:04 AM
Uhh it might be due to us shutting down the running game on both of our previous opponents. We gave 57 yards to Martin and 59 to Jordan. Teams tend to throw the ball when they can't run as evidenced by Pennington/Collins being around 35 attempts. 35 attempts per game will put you near the top of the league.

SCChief
09-26-2005, 08:10 AM
Uhh it might be due to us shutting down the running game on both of our previous opponents. We gave 57 yards to Martin and 59 to Jordan. Teams tend to throw the ball when they can't run as evidenced by Pennington/Collins being around 35 attempts. 35 attempts per game will put you near the top of the league.

Exactly!

I think it sucks that NFL ranks their defenses based on yards allowed rather than rating them based on points allowed. Points allowed is MUCH more important than yards.

jidar
09-26-2005, 08:18 AM
Obviously points allowed is the uh.. point. But I think the ranking should be yards/attempt.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 08:23 AM
Stats don't win games...points do. And don't expect that to change. Our running game is so woeful right now that we'll be passing most of the night.

Marcellus
09-26-2005, 08:26 AM
Not to get too far ahead but,the Eagles threw the ball 56 times yesterday. That scares me come next week.Running game or not, they have the weapons to turn those throws into points in my opinion.

Cochise
09-26-2005, 08:26 AM
Stats don't win games...points do. And don't expect that to change. Our running game is so woeful right now that we'll be passing most of the night.

oh please oh please oh please

morphius
09-26-2005, 08:26 AM
You also have to realize that we lost Surtain for nearly 3 quarters as well, and you just can't make up for 2 bad corners.

Garcia Bronco
09-26-2005, 08:29 AM
Not to get too far ahead but,the Eagles threw the ball 56 times yesterday. That scares me come next week.Running game or not, they have the weapons to turn those throws into points in my opinion.

The way to beat the Eagles is to stop Westbrook...you do that and you'll have a chance. Hard task though...they line that guy up everywhere.

SCChief
09-26-2005, 08:36 AM
Not to get too far ahead but,the Eagles threw the ball 56 times yesterday. That scares me come next week.Running game or not, they have the weapons to turn those throws into points in my opinion.

With Donovan McNabb hurt and not running right... that is a recipe for him to get his neck broken at Arrowhead. Even the Raiders, whose defensive scheme is stronger against the run than pass, were able to get to and knock McNabb around yesterday. The thing that saved the Eagles' offense was Westbrook.

Stop Bryant Westbrook, and McNabb will have a bullseye on his chest.

kcirnamffoh
09-26-2005, 08:37 AM
I like it the way it is. Total yards is a good indication of a defense's defensive defensivness. A team that gets lots of three and outs is not going to be scored on very much. Chances are a team that is extremely stingy giving up yards is going to be among the leaders in other catagories as well.

This bend but don't break thing I don't buy. You can't give up a lot of yards and expect to keep your opponent off the score board for very long. It WILL catch up with you because you will begin to lose the battle of field position.

The Chiefs do need to watch out as far as their pass defense is concerned. Opponents will begin to test that phase of their game right from the opening kickoff if it proves to be vulnerable. Right now, I think, its hard to say.

It sure is nice to see them shutting down the run, though and creating turnovers.

InChiefsHell
09-26-2005, 08:38 AM
Meh...

# 2 against the run
# 5 total points allowed

We've improved. We'll get better. We'll see it tonight.

SCChief
09-26-2005, 08:39 AM
With Donovan McNabb hurt and not running right... that is a recipe for him to get his neck broken at Arrowhead. Even the Randy Moss and the Raiders, whose defensive scheme is stronger against the run than pass, were able to get to and knock McNabb around yesterday. The thing that saved the Eagles' offense was Westbrook.

Stop Bryant Westbrook, and McNabb will have a bullseye on his chest.

Hmmmm. I don't remember typing Randy Moss when I typed the Raiders in this post. Was it my subconscious, programmed by the subtle mind control messages sent out by Sterling Sharpe? Mysteries...

InChiefsHell
09-26-2005, 08:42 AM
Hmmmm. I don't remember typing Randy Moss when I typed the Randy Moss and the Raiders in this post. Was it my subconscious, programmed by the subtle mind control messages sent out by Sterling Sharpe? Mysteries...

The power of Moss compels you!! THE POWER OF MOSS COMPELS YOU!!!

KChiefs1
09-26-2005, 08:43 AM
Any team who has a dominating offense with a great run stopping defense will have a lot of yards passing against them. The opponents are in desperation & throw just about every down. If you notice on the stats, most 300 yard passers LOSE their games, while RB's who rush for 100 yards WIN their games.

It's a statistical anomaly.

Chief Chief
09-26-2005, 08:52 AM
The Philly game just won't matter in the end. First, it's a non-conference game. Second, the Dolts and Donks will play the Eggos later in the season so they'll get their just desserts as well (the Dolts play at Philly). If we can beat 'em, great...if we can't, it's all still good.

Bob Dole
09-26-2005, 08:54 AM
Hmmmm. I don't remember typing Randy Moss when I typed the Raiders in this post. Was it my subconscious, programmed by the subtle mind control messages sent out by Sterling Sharpe? Mysteries...

Didn't you get the memo?

the Talking Can
09-26-2005, 09:13 AM
testing...

"Randy Moss and the Raiders"


awesome

kcirnamffoh
09-26-2005, 09:24 AM
Any team who has a dominating offense with a great run stopping defense will have a lot of yards passing against them. The opponents are in desperation & throw just about every down. If you notice on the stats, most 300 yard passers LOSE their games, while RB's who rush for 100 yards WIN their games. It's a statistical anomaly.

You still have to be capable of defending the pass. Future opponents will begin to try and exploit your weakness. It doesn't matter how good SOME of your stats are. Its those that you show vulnerability in that might come back to bite you and chances are it will be in the playoffs.

I believe defense wins championships. Great defenses can make up for any of their offensive shortcomings but not visa-versa.

If the Chiefs are to win in the playoffs, their defense will have to be strong all the way around. Giving up lots of yards is not all the way around. I'm hard to satisfy.

the Talking Can
09-26-2005, 09:28 AM
You still have to be capable of defending the pass. Future opponents will begin to try and exploit your weakness. It doesn't matter how good SOME of your stats are. Its those that you show vulnerability in that might come back to bite you and chances are it will be in the playoffs.

I believe defense wins championships. Great defenses can make up for any of their offensive shortcomings but not visa-versa.

If the Chiefs are to win in the playoffs, their defense will have to be strong all the way around. Giving up lots of yards is not all the way around. I'm hard to satisfy.

we've played without our #2 CB for both games, and our #1 CB for 3 quarters of the first....and no cares whether or not you're "satisfied"

Bowser
09-26-2005, 09:34 AM
Who cares what we are ranked against the pass? The only defensive stat I really care about is POINTS ALLOWED. Teams can throw for 375 against us every week, as long as we stay arouns the top five in points allowed.

Chief Faithful
09-26-2005, 09:53 AM
Patrick Surtain? Sammy Knight? It'll work during the regular season but not in the postseason!

Are you of the opinion it helps to get Warfield back in two weeks?

ChiefsCountry
09-26-2005, 09:58 AM
These dumb nOObs must not realize we were ahead the whole Jets game, which causes teams to pass all the time. Plus its the dumb Raiders who just want to throw it deep to Moss the whole game.

kcirnamffoh
09-26-2005, 10:02 AM
we've played without our #2 CB for both games, and our #1 CB for 3 quarters of the first

New England won the Superbowl playing a wide reciever as a nickelback and you're bragging about this? A #1 or #2 anything is who's on the field, not who's not on the field. You can make excuses but it doesn't change the facts. Either the Chiefs' field their best players or they have to win without them. Never-the-less, a bend but don't break defense is not what I want out of the Chiefs. If its OK for you then I'm glad you're not Gunther Cunningham.

Who cares what we are ranked against the pass? The only defensive stat I really care about is POINTS ALLOWED. Teams can throw for 375 against us every week, as long as we stay arouns the top five in points allowed.

If the Chiefs give up 375 yards a game passing, I'll bet you any amount of money they will not be in the top five in scoring defense.

Lzen
09-26-2005, 10:07 AM
Great defenses can make up for any of their offensive shortcomings but not visa-versa.

Tell that to the 1995 Chiefs.

kcirnamffoh
09-26-2005, 10:32 AM
Tell that to the 1995 Chiefs.

Well, I guess there are, uh... exceptions. That was the best defense the Chiefs have ever fielded and you're right even they couldn't overcome. But what defense can overcome 4 turnovers and 3 missed field goals? That was such a travesty. I thought Shottenhiemer should have been fired after that game. It was that game that convinced me Shottenhiemer was cursed and will never make a Superbowl so what good was it to keep him. Poor San Diego.

Bowser
09-26-2005, 10:35 AM
If the Chiefs give up 375 yards a game passing, I'll bet you any amount of money they will not be in the top five in scoring defense.

I just threw that number out there. You knew what I meant.

Lzen
09-26-2005, 10:38 AM
The point is that I know that they say defense wins championships. But unless you're the 2000 Ravens, you need some offense, too. Good offense, great defense means championship caliber. Great offense, good defense means championship caliber. I would place the Chiefs in the latter category. Sure, they haven't quite played up to that yet when it comes to pass defense. But I think as the season progress, guys will get more comfortable and the defense will improve. By season's end, I expect this defense to look like a top 10 unit.

kcirnamffoh
09-26-2005, 10:52 AM
By season's end, I expect this defense to look like a top 10 unit.

I hope you're right. If there is anyone who can make this defense improve and not be satisfied with bend-but-don't-break, it's Gunther Cunningham. He is the one I hold the most faith in. Not Vermeil, not Derrick Johnson or Patrick Surtain but Gunther Cunningham. He'll get it done and I hope it can be this season because I think the window of opportunity says it might have to be.

Reaper16
09-26-2005, 10:56 AM
Stats don't win games...points do. And don't expect that to change. Our running game is so woeful right now that we'll be entrusting Plummer to lose us the game.

fix'd

Bwana
09-26-2005, 10:59 AM
Nothing like playing Jake Plummit to help that stat out. :)

go bowe
09-26-2005, 11:06 AM
Uhh it might be due to us shutting down the running game on both of our previous opponents. We gave 57 yards to Martin and 59 to Jordan. Teams tend to throw the ball when they can't run as evidenced by Pennington/Collins being around 35 attempts. 35 attempts per game will put you near the top of the league.only if they're completed... :p :p :p

Gaz
09-26-2005, 11:09 AM
When passing yardage becomes a criterion for awarding victory, I will take it more seriously. Until then, it is a non-factor.

We are playing very good run Defense and have won both games. We stuffed the NFL rushing champion and stifled the new offensive darlings of the NFL.

xoxo~
Gaz
As apathetic as possible on the pass yardage issue.

BigMeatballDave
09-26-2005, 11:41 AM
The power of Moss compels you!! THE POWER OF MOSS COMPELS YOU!!!
ROFL

keg in kc
09-26-2005, 11:44 AM
Since we're playing a number of likely postseason teams during the regular season, I'd imagine if it works enough to get us to the playoffs, it'll work well enough then. If we happen to make the playoffs, it won't be because we're a bad team benefitting from a soft schedule. No doubt about that.

And screw yards. Points are all that matters in the end. For defense and offense both.

the Talking Can
09-26-2005, 12:05 PM
New England won the Superbowl playing a wide reciever as a nickelback and you're bragging about this? A #1 or #2 anything is who's on the field, not who's not on the field. You can make excuses but it doesn't change the facts. Either the Chiefs' field their best players or they have to win without them. Never-the-less, a bend but don't break defense is not what I want out of the Chiefs. If its OK for you then I'm glad you're not Gunther Cunningham.

We have won without them. That's the point we've all been making. You are the one crying about numbers.

You are seriously confused. I'm glad I'm not Gunther either. I don't wan't to have a 60 year old penis.

You managed to argue for and against your own point...all in one post. Are you Kotter by any chance?

patteeu
09-26-2005, 12:50 PM
I like it the way it is. Total yards is a good indication of a defense's defensive defensivness. A team that gets lots of three and outs is not going to be scored on very much. Chances are a team that is extremely stingy giving up yards is going to be among the leaders in other catagories as well.

This bend but don't break thing I don't buy. You can't give up a lot of yards and expect to keep your opponent off the score board for very long. It WILL catch up with you because you will begin to lose the battle of field position.

The Chiefs do need to watch out as far as their pass defense is concerned. Opponents will begin to test that phase of their game right from the opening kickoff if it proves to be vulnerable. Right now, I think, its hard to say.

It sure is nice to see them shutting down the run, though and creating turnovers.

As long as the Chiefs are playing with the lead, this is unconcerning and is unlikely to catch up with them. Teams that play from behind pass a lot. Teams that play with the lead give up yards because they are conservatively trying to avoid big plays.

If the pass defense proves to be vulnerable right from the opening kickoff then there will certainly be a reason to be concerned. I agree that until then, it's hard to say.

htismaqe
09-26-2005, 01:39 PM
As long as this team continues to allow roughly 3 yards per carry against the run, everything else is immaterial.

petegz28
09-26-2005, 01:46 PM
I will give a team whatever they want between the 20's. You don't get in the End Zone you don't get any points. I can care less how many yards you have passed or ran for for that matter.

KChiefs1
09-26-2005, 01:47 PM
"IF" the Broncos get 100+ yards rushing tonight they'll probably win. But if Jake Plummer has 300 yards passing I bet they lose.

You can check any statistic you want but passing yardage is way down the list on the statistic that determines wins & losses.

Saul Good
09-26-2005, 01:48 PM
A #1 or #2 anything is who's on the field, not who's not on the field. You can make excuses but it doesn't change the facts. Either the Chiefs' field their best players or they have to win without them.
Are you dense? The Chiefs HAVE NOT been able to field our #1 CB from last year yet we HAVE won without him. No excuses are being made. It's a simple fact that we'll have more talent starting and more depth on the bench when Warfield comes back from his suspension in week 5. We've played 2 strong offenses and are ranked 5th in the league in scoring D. We're a win away from putting the division in a hammerlock. It would be great to have Warfield as our #2 corner, but that won't happen for 2 more games. 3-1 or 4-0 would be a dream scenario considering the dropoff between Warfield and McCleon.

htismaqe
09-26-2005, 01:54 PM
"IF" the Broncos get 100+ yards rushing tonight they'll probably win. But if Jake Plummer has 300 yards passing I bet they lose.

You can check any statistic you want but passing yardage is way down the list on the statistic that determines wins & losses.

Yep.

Shut down the run and run the ball well, and you dictate the pace of the game. Period.

KChiefs1
09-27-2005, 09:09 AM
The Broncos had 137 yards passing last night, much better don't you think....happy?

Passing yards mean diddly squat in regard to wins...

ChiTown
09-27-2005, 09:12 AM
The Broncos had 137 yards passing last night, much better don't you think....happy?

Passing yards mean diddly squat in regard to wins...

Yep. Stopping the run, obviously, is much more important than giving up meaningless passing yards late in the game (which is what happened with the Jets).

The passing yards stat is about as meaningless as Green nnot having a TD pass 2 games into the season. So what?