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jspchief
10-03-2005, 08:29 AM
Going into a game where your opponent's biggest weapon is their QB. That QB has several injuries. What is your gameplan?

Pressure in the first quarter doesn't get to the QB but forces several bad throws. Running game is getting shut down. QB looks slow in the pocket. What is your gameplan?

Opponent quits on the run. Starts shredding your D passing the ball, even though you've stopped blitzing. You're dropping everyone into coverage, and slow, wounded QB is standing there with all day to carve your secondary like Thanksgiving turkey. What the f*ck is your gameplan?

Why didn't we blitz the hell out of McNabb? Pressure early in the game was forcing him to make poor throws. He looked slow and uncomfortable. It's not like we were stopping them from passing by keeping LBs in coverage. At what point do you recognize that what you are doing isn't working, so you need to try something else?

What has Gunther Cunningham ever accomplished without Derrick Thomas on the field?

Brock
10-03-2005, 08:32 AM
McNabb didn't look slow or wounded to me. He made at least a couple of tough throws on the run. And it looked to me like the Chiefs did blitz him often, but the Eagles picked it up nearly every time. Regardless, it is the same story as the past several years. No pressure on the QB makes the secondary look awful.

Bowser
10-03-2005, 08:35 AM
It would appear that they are trying to hide or protect McCleon with these stupid zones, waiting for Warfield to get back.

And I don't think the Eagles outcoached us as much as we just shot ourselves in the foot. We tried to be too clever, on BOTH sides of the ball. Complete screwjob on coaching, save special teams.

And you're right about Derrick Thomas. Sadly, it seems DT to Gun is what Elway to Shanahan is.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 08:35 AM
We didn't blitz much in the second half.

Extra Point
10-03-2005, 08:39 AM
If you're going to send in the LB's for blitzing, then play the safeties tight to defend the closest eligible against the short pass. More soft coverage, more holes found in the zone. :banghead:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it leaks, overhaul it.

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 08:41 AM
I've seen a lot of people blaming the entire defensive gameplan on McLeon and how the Chiefs have to play a deep zone to protect him. I don't buy it. Dexter has been playing fairly well. He was step for step with Owens on the interception and didn't have any safety help whatsoever. There seems to be much, much, more confusion with the zone defense this year.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 08:44 AM
I've seen a lot of people blaming the entire defensive gameplan on McLeon and how the Chiefs have to play a deep zone to protect him. I don't buy it. Dexter has been playing fairly well. He was step for step with Owens on the interception and didn't have any safety help whatsoever. There seems to be much, much, more confusion with the zone defense this year.Our LBs are bad in coverage. A lot of these open 5-10 yard routes are blown LB coverage. Everyone knew Bell was bad in coverage, and it appears that DJ is still learning. Mix in a SS that's poor in coverage and it's a recipe for disaster.

And I still think McCleon sucks and is the weakest link in this defense.

Extra Point
10-03-2005, 08:56 AM
Weakest link? How about LINKS?!! If McLeon is up to his job, Wesley isn't, and vice versa. Wesley plays like he doesn't want to get hurt, from just a few looks of it. When Wesley screws up, he SCREWS UP!!!

Time to seal the hull during the bye. Time for CPO Cunningham to fix the leaks before the Chief-tanic cruises more into the divisional iceberg field.

Chain Cunningham back in the view box, so he can better see the pieces on the board....

jspchief
10-03-2005, 09:00 AM
Chain Cunningham back in the view box, so he can better see the pieces on the board....

Good point here. Gunther needs to get his ass back in the booth. These guys are professionals, and shouldn't need a coach to be their damn cheerleader on the sideline.

wolfpack0735
10-03-2005, 09:04 AM
gun needs back in the box, period. but i dont care who you have as cb`s, the best in the world. but if you dont have a pass rush it dosnt matter, wr will get open. we just dont have them. maybe gun,queen carl are reliving the 90`s when we did.

Extra Point
10-03-2005, 09:16 AM
These guys are professionals, and shouldn't need a coach to be their damn cheerleader on the sideline.

Well said. Had to gather my thoughts and grab a Kleenex before I could submit my response to your comment.....

RedThat
10-03-2005, 09:23 AM
Guys, we have a lack of talent on the front four. Hopefully Ryan Sims can get back soon. Lional Dalton and John Browning, never, if rarely, get a good push up the middle. Siavii seems like a real bust. That's the biggest problem right there, our DTs. Our weakest link to this defense lies in the front four. Dont get me wrong, McCleon sucks too, but, the front four makes him look really bad.

Just think if we had a good front four, we could blitz more effectively, we could play more zone, press man-man coverages all that. it definately makes our defense more flexible, as opposed to limited. I see on a lot of plays, our defensive lineman get blocked single handedly its a joke. Even if we blitzed, teams pick it up because nobody on this Damn frigg'n line commands double teams, or gets good push n penetration through. It sucks. And I hate to say it, the Chiefs build their defense the wrong way. They failed to address the issues on their D-line, and were content with the guys they had. I blame management and coaching for giving those guys a free pass.

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 09:24 AM
Didn't Pam Oliver have a good quote yesterday about Gunther? Something to the affect that he walked over to the defense after one of the Philly TD series, just shook his head, didn't say anything, and then just walked away.

RedThat
10-03-2005, 09:31 AM
Didn't Pam Oliver have a good quote yesterday about Gunther? Something to the affect that he walked over to the defense after one of the Philly TD series, just shook his head, didn't say anything, and then just walked away.

I cant remember exactly what she said word for word. I do remember her mentioning about Gunther saying to the DB's. It went something along the words of "cover your area, your ground" something like that. After they failed, Gunther just said to them, "make a play".

I remember seeing one of the coaches, I dont who it was, i think it was Gun, accidentily backhand Hicks in the face. It was funny.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 09:34 AM
Didn't Pam Oliver have a good quote yesterday about Gunther? Something to the affect that he walked over to the defense after one of the Philly TD series, just shook his head, didn't say anything, and then just walked away.Then, later in the 4th qtr, 75k Chiefs fans emulated Gunther by looking at the defense, shaking their heads, and walking away.

Mr. Kotter
10-03-2005, 09:41 AM
Going into a game where your opponent's biggest weapon is their QB. That QB has several injuries. What is your gameplan?

Pressure in the first quarter doesn't get to the QB but forces several bad throws. Running game is getting shut down. QB looks slow in the pocket. What is your gameplan?

Opponent quits on the run. Starts shredding your D passing the ball, even though you've stopped blitzing. You're dropping everyone into coverage, and slow, wounded QB is standing there with all day to carve your secondary like Thanksgiving turkey. What the f*ck is your gameplan?

Why didn't we blitz the hell out of McNabb? Pressure early in the game was forcing him to make poor throws. He looked slow and uncomfortable. It's not like we were stopping them from passing by keeping LBs in coverage. At what point do you recognize that what you are doing isn't working, so you need to try something else?

What has Gunther Cunningham ever accomplished without Derrick Thomas on the field?

Sorry I missed your post before starting my own thread....I honestly think DV has "neutered" Gun; I think it's as much approach and game plan (coaching) as players. Yes, DT and Hasty would help...but not THIS much.

RedThat
10-03-2005, 09:48 AM
Sorry I missed your post before starting my own thread....I honestly think DV has "neutered" Gun; I think it's as much approach and game plan (coaching) as players. Yes, DT and Hasty would help...but not THIS much.

Im starting to be convinced that Vermeil has "neutered" Gunther. This is not Gunthers defense were seeing here 100%. I think Vermeil has an influence on his overall defensive game plan. Our defense operates out of fear more than anything, afraid to play with balls, and give up big plays. Perhaps that is why they are playing a soft zone. Huh? Gunther? soft zone. Im used to seeing Gunther MAD, firing up his players, taking risks on defense, playing man-to-man press coverages, blitzing the helluva out of QB's, installing the passion, fire on his defense, making them play balls to wall. i dont see any of that. I see Gunther on the sideline, no emotion at all, this isnt Gunther? I think Vermeil is influencing Gun's mind set, behaviour, even defensive philosophy a bit. Im convined he is doing that. THIS is not Gunther. It is Vermeil.

Mr. Kotter
10-03-2005, 09:49 AM
Im starting to be convinced that Vermeil has "neutered" Gunther. This is not Gunthers defense were seeing here 100%. I think Vermeil has an influence on his overall defensive game plan. Our defense operates out of fear more than anything, afraid to play with balls, and give up big plays. Perhaps that is why they are playing a soft zone. Huh? Gunther? soft zone. Im used to seeing Gunther MAD, firing up his players, taking risks on defense, playing man-to-man press coverages, blitzing the helluva out of QB's, installing the passion, fire on his defense, making them play balls to wall. i dont see any of that. I see Gunther on the sideline, no emotion at all, this isnt Gunther? I think Vermeil is influencing Gun's mind set, behaviour, even defensive philosophy a bit. Im convined he is doing that. THIS is not Gunther. It is Vermeil.

That's my take as well....

:mad:

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 10:29 AM
Im starting to be convinced that Vermeil has "neutered" Gunther. This is not Gunthers defense were seeing here 100%. I think Vermeil has an influence on his overall defensive game plan. Our defense operates out of fear more than anything, afraid to play with balls, and give up big plays. Perhaps that is why they are playing a soft zone. Huh? Gunther? soft zone. Im used to seeing Gunther MAD, firing up his players, taking risks on defense, playing man-to-man press coverages, blitzing the helluva out of QB's, installing the passion, fire on his defense, making them play balls to wall. i dont see any of that. I see Gunther on the sideline, no emotion at all, this isnt Gunther? I think Vermeil is influencing Gun's mind set, behaviour, even defensive philosophy a bit. Im convined he is doing that. THIS is not Gunther. It is Vermeil.

Yes it IS Gunther. Gunther is a foot-shuffling porter that does what he's told.

Let's not forget that Gunther played this SAME soft zone both years he was head coach here.

A pox on Vermeil, Gunther, and Carl Peterson...

wolfpack0735
10-03-2005, 10:41 AM
gun could play man-man with surtan,maybe even with sapp but not with Mc passon.

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 10:59 AM
gun could play man-man with surtan,maybe even with sapp but not with Mc passon.

He could, but he's not. :hmmm:

donkhater
10-03-2005, 11:03 AM
I don't know about blitzing McNabb. Personally, I take an approach that Bob Knight does with full-court pressing in basketball. You can full court press a bad team and get good results, but you're playing with fire trying to press a good team.

It's the same for blitzing. Add in the fact that Philly passes nearly 75% of the time and you'd think that they would be pretty good with blitz pickup if they can do that.

Personally, my defensive philosophy going into this game would be to have at least 1 player within 10 yards of the best WR in football on every play, but I guess I'm not as smart as the pros.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 11:07 AM
I don't know about blitzing McNabb. Personally, I take an approach that Bob Knight does with full-court pressing in basketball. You can full court press a bad team and get good results, but you're playing with fire trying to press a good team.

It's the same for blitzing. Add in the fact that Philly passes nearly 75% of the time and you'd think that they would be pretty good with blitz pickup if they can do that.

Yea, because god forbid Philly pick up the blitz and throw for 350 yards. :rolleyes:

At least blitzing, we might force a bad throw or knock out the QB while getting lit up like the Plaza at Christmas time.

donkhater
10-03-2005, 11:38 AM
Yea, because god forbid Philly pick up the blitz and throw for 350 yards. :rolleyes:

At least blitzing, we might force a bad throw or knock out the QB while getting lit up like the Plaza at Christmas time.
Seems to be the early recipe for slowing down Manning and the Colts offense. Drop eight into coverage and force Edge to beat you. And Philly doesn't have nearly the running game that Indy does.