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View Full Version : Do you blame LJ for the fumble and/or loss?


Rain Man
10-03-2005, 09:45 AM
While I know it's the running back's responsibility to control the handoff, it's obvious from the replays that Johnson never had the ball. It's not like he was careless with it, or wasn't protecting it. It was just a bad exchange.

Pffft. (Dismissive hand wave.)

siberian khatru
10-03-2005, 09:48 AM
He got hit right after he got the handoff, which didn't help.

I thought Aikman made a good point: LJ didn't give Trent much of a "pocket" to insert the ball. I suspect LJ saw the Eagles guy running up to fill that hole and it distracted him.

So, blame the Eagles guy for influencing the play, but blame LJ for not doing his job.

ArrowheadHawk
10-03-2005, 09:51 AM
if he can go the rest of the year without a fumble then i say its not his fault but if he turns into ahmed green then we have a problem

RedThat
10-03-2005, 09:53 AM
I partially blame him, but not entirely. His mistake definately set the tone, momemtum in Phillys favor, no doubt. However, this was a total team failure from both players and coaching.

keg in kc
10-03-2005, 10:23 AM
Yes and no.

Yes because he never secured the ball, and that's job #1.

No because Kearse was in his grill so fast. Hell, he might have dropped the ball from sheer shock. There's no excuse for that kind of a breakdown in blocking.

KC Dan
10-03-2005, 10:26 AM
I don't blame LJ, I don't blame Trent, I place the blame on DV & AS for having LJ in the game to begin with. Priest was having a good 1st half & should have been in the game. If he is ineffective, then pull him for LJ

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-03-2005, 10:31 AM
It would have been nice if someone had blocked the Eagles player on that play so LJ would have had a chance. Then it would have been nice if the coaches wouldn't have made bone-headed descisions. Then it would have been nice if the players could have found the resiliance and heart to not blow it completely.

digi2fish
10-03-2005, 10:36 AM
the coach should know to send the RB in better shape on the field, can't blame it on the players.

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 10:37 AM
The turning point in the game wasn't LJ's fumble.

The idea that the Eagles seized momentum before halftime is horseshit.

The Chiefs made no adjustments at halftime, on offense or defense, and lost by 6, despite leading at the half by 11.

Don't blame LJ. Blame the COACHES.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 10:39 AM
I blame the coaches for putting LJ in when Holmes was shredding. I'm tired of this f*cking experiment. Let the best RB in Chiefs history run the damn ball.

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 10:40 AM
All of the turnovers hurt. All of the missed tackles and missed sacks hurt. The defensive coaching scheme hurt. The offensive coaching scheme in the 2nd half hurt. It was an all around team and coaching loss, just like the Broncos game.

InChiefsHell
10-03-2005, 10:42 AM
Coaches choked on this one. Plain and simple. You can't blame the coaches for the fumble, but the circumstances that created it (playing LJ to begin with) are definately coaching issues.

brent102fire
10-03-2005, 10:43 AM
Whatever :deevee: says!

onescrewleftuntwisted
10-03-2005, 11:11 AM
;)

kepp
10-03-2005, 11:14 AM
From what I saw LJ didn't have a chance to even get the ball. I'd be more inclined to blame whoever missed their blocking assignment than to blame LJ.

bkkcoh
10-03-2005, 11:17 AM
i would tend to agree with some that have said that the changing of the rb's isn't a good thing, especially when 1 of the rb's is going good. I would have to say that Priest was doing just that. Like was mentioned last week, it doesn't seem like LJ hits the hole like he needs to, it is almost like he has reverted back to his first or early second year where he is thinking too much and not just exploding through the hole.

Trent never was the same after the INT was returned and the Eagle score right before the end of the 1st half was big. But even bigger was the inability to stop them on their first drive of the 2nd half. That was the double-edged sword. :hmmm:

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 11:24 AM
From what I saw LJ didn't have a chance to even get the ball. I'd be more inclined to blame whoever missed their blocking assignment than to blame LJ.

Yep.

Fishpicker
10-03-2005, 11:32 AM
LJ has to share the blame for the fumble along with everyone else. The fumble wasn't a backbreaker though. The entire offense performed poorly in the 2nd half as the T.O.P. was totally lopsided.

chiefz
10-03-2005, 11:42 AM
It was a bad exchange but watching the tape again it appeared that he was more worried about getting leveled than covering up the ball.

Should have had better protection but LJ is also an NFL professional, he knows the first thing you do as a running back is secure the ball. As far as I could tell the handoff from Trent was right on the money.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 11:45 AM
It was a bad exchange but watching the tape again it appeared that he was more worried about getting leveled than covering up the ball.

Should have had better protection but LJ is also an NFL professional, he knows the first thing you do as a running back is secure the ball. As far as I could tell the handoff from Trent was right on the money.I agree completely. Kearse made a great play by getting in the backfield, but Johnson could have secured the hand-off.

King_Chief_Fan
10-03-2005, 11:47 AM
Kearse got there about the same time as the hand off.
don't blame LJ.

I do blame two interceptions that Green threw. Especially the first one.
I don't buy this crap about the coaches won't let me audible either.
They may not let him......but he could still do it.

Bowser
10-03-2005, 11:48 AM
Kearse got there about the same time as the hand off.
don't blame LJ.

I do blame two interceptions that Green threw. Especially the first one.
I don't buy this crap about the coaches won't let me audible either.
They may not let him......but he could still do it.

The second pick bounced off of Kennisons hands. The throw was high, but certainly catchable.

Iowanian
10-03-2005, 11:52 AM
Johnson had time to secure that ball. The fumble is on him, and the oline thats playing like shit. Even Will Shields, is playing, like he didn't practice at all this offseason if that tells us anything. The fumble is on Johnson, and the middle of the Oline IMO.

Trent Green Threw the INT for a TD....I don't give a crap what Vermeil says, or if Saunders didn't let him audible....Its either on Green, or the WR who runs a wrong route.

The Coaching staff appears to be INCAPABLE of adjusting during the game OR at halftime. I knew it when they went in at the half that they wouldn't.

They all did their reps of Monkey Rolls in that turd puddle.

cdcox
10-03-2005, 11:54 AM
That play takes way too long to devlop with the way the Eagles were crashing in. It should never have been called.

From the replay, it is clear that LJ was more concerned about getting his hands up to ward of Kearse than he was about taking the handoff or going after it the fumble. Huge, inexcuable break in concentration that makes me really question his mental toughness.

So yes it was his fault and it obviously permenantly changed the momentum of the game. We still should have won, so I don't pin the whole loss on him, but it was definitely the turning point, the precipitating event.

cdcox
10-03-2005, 11:58 AM
I don't buy this crap about the coaches won't let me audible either.
They may not let him......but he could still do it.


Not if the coaches have not put in a system for doing so in that situation.

InChiefsHell
10-03-2005, 01:01 PM
Ummm...is he not capable of taking a time out??

jspchief
10-03-2005, 01:05 PM
Kearse did not cause that fumble. I just watched it again on Tivo and they replayed it in slo motion. LJ got the hand off when Kearse was still 2 yards away. The ball came out of LJ's hands before Kearse touched him. He was bobbling the ball already when he got hit.

That fumble is all Larry Johnson. I'll give Kearse credit for blowing up the play, but he didn't cause the fumble.

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 01:17 PM
Kearse did not cause that fumble. I just watched it again on Tivo and they replayed it in slo motion. LJ got the hand off when Kearse was still 2 yards away. The ball came out of LJ's hands before Kearse touched him. He was bobbling the ball already when he got hit.

That fumble is all Larry Johnson. I'll give Kearse credit for blowing up the play, but he didn't cause the fumble.

Look at Johnson's face. He was clearly looking at Kearse and not concentrating on the ball.

No, that doesn't absolve Larry of blame, but Kearse's presence in the backfield did cause that fumble...

morphius
10-03-2005, 01:23 PM
Kearse did not cause that fumble. I just watched it again on Tivo and they replayed it in slo motion. LJ got the hand off when Kearse was still 2 yards away. The ball came out of LJ's hands before Kearse touched him. He was bobbling the ball already when he got hit.

That fumble is all Larry Johnson. I'll give Kearse credit for blowing up the play, but he didn't cause the fumble.
A guy coming full steam ahead, straight at you, unblocked, as you are getting a hand off is likely to disrupt your focus a bit.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 01:29 PM
A guy coming full steam ahead, straight at you, unblocked, as you are getting a hand off is likely to disrupt your focus a bit.He's a professional athlete getting payed millions of dollars to get hit by other people... and hold onto the f*cking ball.

Lame excuse. I suppose it's okay for Green to cough it up when he gets sacked, and Kennison to drop it when he gets tackled too.

Everytime you get the ball, your first priority is to not drop the damn thing no matter how hard you are going to get hit. Being a puss doesn't absolve you of responsibility.

Simplex3
10-03-2005, 01:33 PM
Look at Johnson's face. He was clearly looking at Kearse and not concentrating on the ball.

No, that doesn't absolve Larry of blame, but Kearse's presence in the backfield did cause that fumble...
LJ dropped that ball before Kearse even got there.

I can excuse fumbles where a guy's helmet pops right on the ball. S**t happens. However, when you have every opportunity to secure that ball before the hit comes and still put in on the ground it's all on you.

Note to LJ: When Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Barry Sanders were in that situation they tucked the ball away first and spun out of the tackle second. If you want to be the great back you claim to be you'd better figure that s**t out.

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 01:36 PM
He's a professional athlete getting payed millions of dollars to get hit by other people... and hold onto the f*cking ball.

Lame excuse. I suppose it's okay for Green to cough it up when he gets sacked, and Kennison to drop it when he gets tackled too.

Everytime you get the ball, your first priority is to not drop the damn thing no matter how hard you are going to get hit. Being a puss doesn't absolve you of responsibility.

LJ dropped that ball before Kearse even got there.

I can excuse fumbles where a guy's helmet pops right on the ball. S**t happens. However, when you have every opportunity to secure that ball before the hit comes and still put in on the ground it's all on you.

Note to LJ: When Jim Brown, Walter Payton, and Barry Sanders were in that situation they tucked the ball away first and spun out of the tackle second. If you want to be the great back you claim to be you'd better figure that s**t out.

It's not an EXCUSE. It's a contributing FACTOR.

LJ should have held onto the ball, no question about it. But saying that Kearse had nothing to do with it is ignoring facts.

Iowanian
10-03-2005, 02:13 PM
Larry Johnson has been quoted this season as saying he's a HoF running back. He's Jim Brown, OJ Simpson and Bo Jackson all rolled into 1.

HoF Running backs, don't drop that Ball Larry.

Rausch
10-03-2005, 03:05 PM
The resulting TD was his fault.

The other 4 were not...

ArrowheadHawk
10-03-2005, 03:11 PM
The resulting TD was his fault.

The other 4 were not...
:clap:

KChiefs1
10-03-2005, 03:18 PM
Dante Hall's fumble was actually the one that put the nail in the coffin.

ArrowheadHawk
10-03-2005, 03:25 PM
Dante Hall's fumble was actually the one that put the nail in the coffin.
what exactly was he doing anyway....looked like he threw the ball out

Rain Man
10-03-2005, 03:32 PM
Ummm...is he not capable of taking a time out??


We have to save our timeouts for challenges about things like whether Donovan McNabb's jersey number is 5 or 6. (We're going with 6.)

Straight, No Chaser
10-03-2005, 03:34 PM
While I know it's the running back's responsibility to control the handoff, it's obvious from the replays that Johnson never had the ball. It's not like he was careless with it, or wasn't protecting it. It was just a bad exchange.

Chiefs have run that delay before except there wasn't any penetration by the D. Johnson never had a chance to wrap it up. Again, with the pressure Philly was getting a bad call at the wrong time.



--->

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 04:07 PM
what exactly was he doing anyway....looked like he threw the ball out

I thought the same thing at the time...like he was trying to lateral...