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View Full Version : Chiefs Defense played quite well yesterday..


thebrad84
10-03-2005, 12:05 PM
I think it is easy for everyone to sit back and blame Gunther and his defense after yesterdays melt down...but perhaps if you really think about it, the chiefs defense played quite well against a very good eagles offense. Lets take a look again at the drive summaries and where they started for the Eagles

Eagles 1st possession = starts at philly 23 yard line. Result: after 2 first downs, eagles are forced to punt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 2nd possession = starts at philly 31 yard line. Result: 3 and out, eagles punt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 3rd possession = begins a philly 24 yard line. Result: after 4 quick first downs by the eagles, chiefs defense holds them and forces a field goal try. Chiefs block field goal attempt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 4th possession (after trent green decided to throw a td pass to the wrong team and the dante hall TD return) = starts at philly 20 yard line. Result: eagles go 3 and out yet again, forced to punt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 5th possession (after larry johnson, for the second week in a row, gives the defense a gift) = starts on KC 49 yard line (great field position for a team like the eagles, don't you think?) Result:7 plays later, Eagles score TD on pass to T.O. (Analysis: defense can't be blamed for letting them score here, seeing how they had just held them and didn't get any rest what-so-ever. Add in great field position for the eagles, and its pretty understandable how our D let them score. Average Effort Defense).

Eagles 6th possession (after half-time) = drive starts on philly 49 yard line after bad kickoff from tynes/good return from eagles return man/jerome woods ridiculous offside penalty. Result: After 2 first downs, Chiefs D holds Eagles to a field goal try. Field goal attempt is good. (Analysis: After giving the Eagles OUTSTANDING field position, I'd like to think this was one of the best series of the Chiefs Defense, after-all, the Eagles momentum had to be huge coming out of the locker rooms at half. Good job defense.)

Eagles 7th possession (after chiefs offense has very quick 3 and out) = drive starts on philly 20 yard line. Result: After two first downs, Chiefs get a huge interception from McCleon (who would have figured) on ball thrown up for grabs to T.O. (Analysis: Good Job Defense).

Eagles 8th possession (after chiefs offense picks up only 1 first down, then goes 3 and out and punts) = drive starts on philly 40 yard line after bad punt from colquitt (only 36 yards). (Again philly is given great field position). Result: After two huge completions to T.O. (30 and 28 yarders), Eagles score on 3 yard pass to Bartum. (Analysis: Again, I think it's hard to really penalize Chiefs defense here, except for the fact that they let T.O. get wide open on 2 plays, which he has been known to do a few times here and there in his career. Eagles had great field position, and Chiefs offense had again had another short, unsuccessful drive their possession before this one. But, because they let them score easily, Poor Effort Defense).

Eagles 9th possession (after yet another bad offensive series by the Chiefs. Chiefs offense picks up quick first down, then goes 3 and out and punts) = philly gets bad field position after colquitt pins them in at their own 10 yard line. Result: Chiefs D lets them put together a good drive all the way down to KC 19 yard line, but comes through on a big 3rd down stop, and forces Eagles to try a field goal. Field goal attempt is good. (My Analysis: Again, after yet another fizzle by our "o-so-good offense," chiefs defense is back on the field awfully quick to defend against this possession. Although the chiefs had them pinned in deep in eagles territory, at this point in the game, perhaps the chiefs D is getting a bit tired. Sub-Par Effort Defense)

Eagles 10th possession (after dante hall decides he doesn't want to hang on to the ball anymore, eagles recover his gift) = philly has absolutely amazing field position here, starting at KC 24 yard line. Result: Chiefs stop a very good Eagles offense to a 3 and 7, in which case the Eagles get very lucky and complete a deflected pass for the first down. They then go on to complete a short 1 yard TD pass to L.J. Smith. (Analysis: Chiefs defense gets very unlucky here when they should have stopped them on the 3 and 7 tipped pass, but thats just how the cookie crumbles. Regardless, Chiefs Defense can't be blamed here after the dante hall give-away gave the Eagles amazing field position. Good Effort Defense).

Eagles 11th possession (after Trent Green is picked off by Brown) = philly gets great field position yet AGAIN after the interception and return gives them the ball at KC 41 yard line. Result: After Eagles pick up 2 first downs, Defense holds them to a field goal attempt. Field goal is good. (My Analysis: Chiefs defense for the 4th time in the game is forced to try to stop a very good Eagles offense when they have great field position, and they do when they force them to kick a field goal. Good Job Defense.)

It's funny how if you look at it this way, perhaps our offense is more to blame than our defense. I know it is very unlikely that any Chiefs defenders will read this post, but I for one would like to let them know that I don't blame them for this loss. They played their hearts out and gave us all they could against a VERY GOOD offensive team in the Philadelphia Eagles. The Chiefs offense too many times fizzled out on big, key drives or turned the ball over quickly and forced the defense to try to defend against the Eagles good field position. I for one would like to say: GOOD EFFORT DEFENSE.

keg in kc
10-03-2005, 12:07 PM
I'm sure that's very interesting, but, man, a single huge block of text like that is hard to get myself to read.

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 12:11 PM
I'm sure that's very interesting, but, man, a single huge block of text like that is hard to get myself to read.
Well, I'd like to think that it has some merit to it, and it is actually quite short to read, takes you like 3 minutes tops. But I suppose it is your option..

BigRock
10-03-2005, 12:15 PM
You make some good points. It might be easier to read it this way, though...

I think it is easy for everyone to sit back and blame Gunther and his defense after yesterdays melt down...but perhaps if you really think about it, the chiefs defense played quite well against a very good eagles offense. Lets take a look again at the drive summaries and where they started for the Eagles...

Eagles 1st possession = starts at philly 23 yard line. Result: after 2 first downs, eagles are forced to punt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 2nd possession = starts at philly 31 yard line. Result: 3 and out, eagles punt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 3rd possession = begins a philly 24 yard line. Result: after 4 quick first downs by the eagles, chiefs defense holds them and forces a field goal try. Chiefs block field goal attempt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 4th possession (after trent green decided to throw a td pass to the wrong team and the dante hall TD return) = starts at philly 20 yard line. Result: eagles go 3 and out yet again, forced to punt (Analysis: good job defense).

Eagles 5th possession (after larry johnson, for the second week in a row, gives the defense a gift) = starts on KC 49 yard line (great field position for a team like the eagles, don't you think?) Result:7 plays later, Eagles score TD on pass to T.O. (Analysis: defense can't be blamed for letting them score here, seeing how they had just held them and didn't get any rest what-so-ever. Add in great field position for the eagles, and its pretty understandable how our D let them score. Average Effort Defense).

Eagles 6th possession (after half-time) = drive starts on philly 49 yard line after bad kickoff from tynes/good return from eagles return man/jerome woods ridiculous offside penalty. Result: After 2 first downs, Chiefs D holds Eagles to a field goal try. Field goal attempt is good. (Analysis: After giving the Eagles OUTSTANDING field position, I'd like to think this was one of the best series of the Chiefs Defense, after-all, the Eagles momentum had to be huge coming out of the locker rooms at half. Good job defense.)

Eagles 7th possession (after chiefs offense has very quick 3 and out) = drive starts on philly 20 yard line. Result: After two first downs, Chiefs get a huge interception from McCleon (who would have figured) on ball thrown up for grabs to T.O. (Analysis: Good Job Defense).

Eagles 8th possession (after chiefs offense picks up only 1 first down, then goes 3 and out and punts) = drive starts on philly 40 yard line after bad punt from colquitt (only 36 yards). (Again philly is given great field position). Result: After two huge completions to T.O. (30 and 28 yarders), Eagles score on 3 yard pass to Bartum. (Analysis: Again, I think it's hard to really penalize Chiefs defense here, except for the fact that they let T.O. get wide open on 2 plays. Eagles had great field position, and Chiefs offense had again had another short, unsuccessful drive their possession before this one. Mediocre Effort Defense).

Eagles 9th possession (after yet another bad offensive series by the Chiefs. Chiefs offense picks up quick first down, then goes 3 and out and punts) = philly gets bad field position after colquitt pins them in at their own 10 yard line. Result: Chiefs D lets them put together a good drive all the way down to KC 19 yard line, but comes through on a big 3rd down stop, and forces Eagles to try a field goal. Field goal attempt is good. (My Analysis: Again, after yet another fizzle by our "o-so-good offense," chiefs defense is back on the field awfully quick to defend against this possession. Although the chiefs had them pinned in deep in eagles territory, at this point in the game, perhaps the chiefs D is getting a bit tired. Sub-Par Effort Defense)

Eagles 10th possession (after dante hall decides he doesn't want to hang on to the ball anymore, eagles recover his gift) = philly has absolutely amazing field position here, starting at KC 24 yard line. Result: Chiefs stop a very good Eagles offense to a 3 and 7, in which case the Eagles get very lucky and complete a deflected pass for the first down. They then go on to complete a short 1 yard TD pass to L.J. Smith. (Analysis: Chiefs defense gets very unlucky here when they should have stopped them on the 3 and 7 tipped pass, but thats just how the cookie crumbles. Regardless, Chiefs Defense can't be blamed here after the dante hall give-away gave the Eagles amazing field position. Good Effort Defense).

Eagles 11th possession (after Trent Green is picked off by Brown) = philly gets great field position yet AGAIN after the interception and return gives them the ball at KC 41 yard line. Result: After Eagles pick up 2 first downs, Defense holds them to a field goal attempt. Field goal is good. (My Analysis: Chiefs defense for the 4th time in the game is forced to try to stop a very good Eagles offense when they have great field position, and they do when they force them to kick a field goal. Good Job Defense.)

It's funny how if you look at it this way, perhaps our offense is more to blame than our defense. I know it is very unlikely that any Chiefs defenders will read this post, but I for one would like to let them know that I don't blame them for this loss. They played their hearts out and gave us all they could against a VERY GOOD offensive team in the Philadelphia Eagles. The Chiefs offense too many times fizzled out on big, key drives or turned the ball over quickly and forced the defense to try to defend against the Eagles good field position. I for one would like to say: GOOD EFFORT DEFENSE.

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 12:18 PM
I completely agree with you there. KC defense did a good enough job for them to pull off a win. If anyone were to be blame its Trent Green and the KC offense.

If you go back to Denver's game, this is the second week in a row where you see KC's offense sputtered (when you discard the first 3 KC drives that produced a 17pt lead early in the game).

After LJ's fumble and Dante's fumble, KC was exceptionally consistent in going 3 and out. WHAT? the #1 offense in the NFL for the past 2 seasons goes 3 and out with that consistency? Are you kidding me? or Do we start to think perhaps, KC's offense isn't really that good to begin with? Something to ponder...

Brock
10-03-2005, 12:22 PM
I'm not going to actually read through that turd of a post, but I will say this: The Eagles basically scored at will, so I'd have to say your subject line at least is wrong.

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 12:24 PM
Interesting analysis.

What it boils down to is this: if you turn the ball over 4 times against a good team, and the turnovers are deep in your territory and/or are returned for 7 points, you are going to lose the game.

Hoover
10-03-2005, 12:25 PM
Nice work. I thought the D line looked OK, getting to McNabb, the only thing that really pisswed me off on D was TO not being covered.

eazyb81
10-03-2005, 12:26 PM
Talk to football fans in other cities and ask them if they would consider it a good defensive performance if they allow 30 points.

cdcox
10-03-2005, 12:28 PM
Brad, you make some good points about field position, but I'm going to have to disagree completely with this take here:

Eagles 8th possession (after chiefs offense picks up only 1 first down, then goes 3 and out and punts) = drive starts on philly 40 yard line after bad punt from colquitt (only 36 yards). (Again philly is given great field position). Result: After two huge completions to T.O. (30 and 28 yarders), Eagles score on 3 yard pass to Bartum. (Analysis: Again, I think it's hard to really penalize Chiefs defense here, except for the fact that they let T.O. get wide open on 2 plays. Eagles had great field position, and Chiefs offense had again had another short, unsuccessful drive their possession before this one. Mediocre Effort Defense).

You are leaving off the fact that Bartum was completely uncovered on the TD play. Any time you leave players uncovered on 3 plays on a drive, the other team, more times than not, are going to score a TD. Completely inexcusable. The secondary is providing absolutely no coverage on opposing receivers. Terrible scheme, effort, or both. An abortion.

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 12:29 PM
I'm not going to actually read through that turd of a post, but I will say this: The Eagles basically scored at will, so I'd have to say your subject line at least is wrong.
Yes, but I'm trying to show you how/why they scored. Don't simply look at it as they scored, and thats it, our defense sucked. Look at what positions our defense was put in time and time again and how they responded. Funny how you can call my post a "turd of a post" when you don't even read it. That's simply just ignorance.

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 12:29 PM
You can give KC the patriots Defense or a super Ravens D of 2001 and still those guys will get tired if they had to keep going out there when your offensive unit uses 2 minutes and go 3 and out with consistency. C'mon guys, start looking at the problem we are facing here? When the offense isn't giving your D a rest at all, no matter how great your D keeps the opposing offense from scoring. Even the Cards could put up points if you keep a D out there so much, let alone high-powered offense let the Eagles?

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 12:29 PM
Talk to football fans in other cities and ask them if they would consider it a good defensive performance if they allow 30 points.

Talk to football fans in other cities and ask them if they blame a defense for turning the ball over 4 times.

eazyb81
10-03-2005, 12:32 PM
Talk to football fans in other cities and ask them if they blame a defense for turning the ball over 4 times.

When you score 31 points, you should win the game.

I'm not going to get into an argument about which unit sucks worse, they both look pretty bad right now. But letting McNabb and TO go wild in the 2nd half is pretty inexcusable to me.

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 12:33 PM
Keep in mind guys that this KC D is still finding its identity and is a work in progress. With that said, it is doing a pretty good job and pressuring QBs and stopping the run. C'mon how many times we saw our guys Jared and DJ get to Donovan only to see McNabb escape or shrug off the tackle and make a big play. Reverse that same scenario on our Trent, I bet you he'll toss some ill-advise pass and provide a INT for the opponent or does his usual, panic and falls down. What do you think?????

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 12:34 PM
Brad, you make some good points about field position, but I'm going to have to disagree completely with this take here:

Eagles 8th possession (after chiefs offense picks up only 1 first down, then goes 3 and out and punts) = drive starts on philly 40 yard line after bad punt from colquitt (only 36 yards). (Again philly is given great field position). Result: After two huge completions to T.O. (30 and 28 yarders), Eagles score on 3 yard pass to Bartum. (Analysis: Again, I think it's hard to really penalize Chiefs defense here, except for the fact that they let T.O. get wide open on 2 plays. Eagles had great field position, and Chiefs offense had again had another short, unsuccessful drive their possession before this one. Mediocre Effort Defense).

You are leaving off the fact that Bartum was completely uncovered on the TD play. Any time you leave players uncovered on 3 plays on a drive, the other team, more times than not, are going to score a TD. Completely inexcusable. The secondary is providing absolutely no coverage on opposing receivers. Terrible scheme, effort, or both. An abortion.
Yes, but that is why I said Mediocre Effort Defense. I suppose that really was our worst defensive series during the game, so, I should have put Bad Effort Defense. Why the poor play on that possession shouldn't be excused for the field position the Eagles were given, it should be taken in to context. Eagles offense will time and time again exploit even some of the best defenses in league if they are given the ball at the 40 yard line.

cdcox
10-03-2005, 12:36 PM
What do you think?????

I think that the secondary should be within 5 yards of the receiver. Other teams seem to do well when they follow this policy.

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 12:37 PM
You can give KC the patriots Defense or a super Ravens D of 2001 and still those guys will get tired if they had to keep going out there when your offensive unit uses 2 minutes and go 3 and out with consistency. C'mon guys, start looking at the problem we are facing here? When the offense isn't giving your D a rest at all, no matter how great your D keeps the opposing offense from scoring. Even the Cards could put up points if you keep a D out there so much, let alone high-powered offense let the Eagles?
Thank you Johnson&Johnson...atleast there is someone else out there that can grasp on to this concept...Thank you..

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 12:39 PM
Keep in mind guys that this KC D is still finding its identity and is a work in progress. With that said, it is doing a pretty good job and pressuring QBs and stopping the run. C'mon how many times we saw our guys Jared and DJ get to Donovan only to see McNabb escape or shrug off the tackle and make a big play. Reverse that same scenario on our Trent, I bet you he'll toss some ill-advise pass and provide a INT for the opponent or does his usual, panic and falls down. What do you think?????

I disagree that the Chiefs are doing a good job pressuring the QB. Allen is the only player on the DL and LB to routinely generate any pressure. Hicks has been pretty much invisible, the DT's are not getting any pressure and the LB's are not blitzing effectively.

cdcox
10-03-2005, 12:41 PM
Yes, but that is why I said Mediocre Effort Defense. I suppose that really was our worst defensive series during the game, so, I should have put Bad Effort Defense. Why the poor play on that possession shouldn't be excused for the field position the Eagles were given, it should be taken in to context. Eagles offense will time and time again exploit even some of the best defenses in league if they are given the ball at the 40 yard line.

A short field and too much time on the field do provide context. But so does last weeks burnouot against the Broncos. And regardless of the context, you can't consistently leave opposing receivers so open. There is no context that justifies that.

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 12:42 PM
I think that the secondary should be within 5 yards of the receiver. Other teams seem to do well when they follow this policy.


I don't know what other teams do or if they really do well when they follow this policy. But I know that our D did not play the bump & run or man2man on Eagles. Shit! you are right, why the heck are our DBs playing off the WR on every down, giving them so much room to get off the line?

Look at the other post about Gunther being nuetuered by DV. he might be on to something. Everybody forgets so quickly how KC's D rescued KC's 2nd win at OAK in the final minutes. When KC's offense didn't do shit. And after the game Vermeil repeatedly praise his baby Trent for doing such a marvelous job despite not having a game plan against the faders. What the hell? DV was admitting that they went into the black hole with a game plan that didn't work? and there weren't an alternative game plan and Trent did so much ? BULL SHIT@!

Frankie
10-03-2005, 12:43 PM
You make some good points. It might be easier to read it this way, though...
Thanks. It did make it easier to read. I think Brad84 does make a solid arument here.

Mr. Krab
10-03-2005, 12:43 PM
Our defense would of been alot better if they had Matched up within their zones to actually cover the receivers. Especially the linebackers, they always maintain their deep drops, even when a RB or TE has come out on a check down route 5 yrds in front of them. They never step up and cover him. :(

Also, if you gonna blitz then blitz!! one extra man doesn't do jack. Send one more than they can block or don't blitz anyone.

Brock
10-03-2005, 12:44 PM
Yes, but I'm trying to show you how/why they scored. Don't simply look at it as they scored, and thats it, our defense sucked. Look at what positions our defense was put in time and time again and how they responded. Funny how you can call my post a "turd of a post" when you don't even read it. That's simply just ignorance.

I didn't read it because it is unreadable. Mix in a paragraph.

We've been hearing excuses for the defense for 5 years, I personally don't accept them anymore. They had an 18 point cushion, and most NFL defenses would have been able to make that work.

chagrin
10-03-2005, 12:51 PM
I couldn't get past his and the other new guy's names.
What's with all the self glossing?

the brad
big rock
who's the other guy, hunglikahorse?
When did we turn into the Jim Rome show?

:p

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 12:51 PM
Our defense would of been alot better if they had Matched up within their zones to actually cover the receivers. Especially the linebackers, they always maintain their deep drops, even when a RB or TE has come out on a check down route 5 yrds in front of them. They never step up and cover him. :(

Also, if you gonna blitz then blitz!! one extra man doesn't do jack. Send one more than they can block or don't blitz anyone.


It's all Vermeil's fault. I am sure Gunther wants to attack and would be apt to rely on his two corners Surtain & Mcleon** and go man and bring the heat. But I believe that DV has been preaching about not giving up the big play, thus the zone D. DV was probably so afraid of TO or Westbrook breaking a big play on them. But as evidence yesterday, its so easy for Eagles players to get off the line without getting a jam by our DBs.

chagrin
10-03-2005, 12:53 PM
Our O has not evolved or progressed so far this year, the RBC experiment has backfired, like they all do and they aren't throwing Tony G the ball.
2 cathes, 5 yards, wasn't that his bottom line yesterday?

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 12:53 PM
I didn't read it because it is unreadable. Mix in a paragraph.

We've been hearing excuses for the defense for 5 years, I personally don't accept them anymore. They had an 18 point cushion, and most NFL defenses would have been able to make that work.
Well, BigRock reposted the same message in a broken up form (which I thank him for that) and it is much easier to read. I'm sorry, I'm new to this "forum talk stuff" and I didn't realize my post had gotten so long. Next time I will break it up in to paragraph form so I don't run into people like you who can't manage to read a lot of words grouped together. Again, thank you BigRock for reposting it in a better way. Perhaps Brock, if you would read his reposting, you could then have some justification on bashing my post/our defense.

kcblue555
10-03-2005, 12:53 PM
You dont know jack about football these turkeys are giving up 300 yards passing a game. Last week the Broncos ran all over them. The fact is the Colts gave the formula for whipping the Chiefs. The secondary is confused most of the time so you don't even have to try to run the ball just throw throw throw!!!

ArrowheadHawk
10-03-2005, 12:54 PM
oh well lets move on to week 6

chagrin
10-03-2005, 12:56 PM
Well, BigRock reposted the same message in a broken up form (which I thank him for that) and it is much easier to read. I'm sorry, I'm new to this "forum talk stuff" and I didn't realize my post had gotten so long. Next time I will break it up in to paragraph form so I don't run into people like you who can't manage to read a lot of words grouped together. Again, thank you BigRock for reposting it in a better way. Perhaps Brock, if you would read his reposting, you could then have some justification on bashing my post/our defense.


Dude, what is your problem? Why don't you consider for a moment that we all don't have the time, between classes like you apparently do, and going to the Home Depot for our part time job, to sit here and read lengthy shit all day. That's for the night crew, this is a get in and get out forum during the days, unless you want to go over to the Dc forum and hang out there all day like some people.

Brock is a cool dude, settle down n00b

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 01:02 PM
You dont know jack about football these turkeys are giving up 300 yards passing a game. Last week the Broncos ran all over them. The fact is the Colts gave the formula for whipping the Chiefs. The secondary is confused most of the time so you don't even have to try to run the ball just throw throw throw!!!
Yes, I comletely agree with you that our Defense DOES and WILL struggle against the pass. This is because of a lack of QB pressure and a lack of good safeties...ones who don't show up a day late and dollar short on every damn pass. HOWEVER, if our offense, which is what our team is built around, were to continue to put more points on the board instead of just shutting down, perhaps we would win a few more balls games. I'm trying to make the arguement that our offense CANNOT afford to go 3 and out and turn the ball over multiple times. They CAN'T do that to our defense. Our defense is only good enough to make teams punt 2 to 3 times a game, and get maybe 1 or 2 turnovers. THAT should be enough for our offense, but hasn't always been the case.

Brock
10-03-2005, 01:02 PM
Well, BigRock reposted the same message in a broken up form (which I thank him for that) and it is much easier to read. I'm sorry, I'm new to this "forum talk stuff" and I didn't realize my post had gotten so long. Next time I will break it up in to paragraph form so I don't run into people like you who can't manage to read a lot of words grouped together. Again, thank you BigRock for reposting it in a better way. Perhaps Brock, if you would read his reposting, you could then have some justification on bashing my post/our defense.

I apologize for slamming your post. However, making excuses for this bunch is still BS.

chagrin
10-03-2005, 01:05 PM
Yes, I comletely agree with you that our Defense DOES and WILL struggle against the pass. This is because of a lack of QB pressure and a lack of good safeties...ones who don't show up a day late and dollar short on every damn pass. HOWEVER, if our offense, which is what our team is built around, were to continue to put more points on the board instead of just shutting down, perhaps we would win a few more balls games. I'm trying to make the arguement that our offense CANNOT afford to go 3 and out and turn the ball over multiple times. They CAN'T do that to our defense. Our defense is only good enough to make teams punt 2 to 3 times a game, and get maybe 1 or 2 turnovers. THAT should be enough for our offense, but hasn't always been the case.


Now you see, this is much better!

And if I may add, again, throwing the ball to a TE, who set a record for receptions last year, 2 times a game isn't going to help. And SIT LJ's ass down for the half next week!

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 01:09 PM
Now you see, this is much better!

And if I may add, again, throwing the ball to a TE, who set a record for receptions last year, 2 times a game isn't going to help. And SIT LJ's ass down for the half next week!


Oh my god. Finally someone see the light in our problems. What the F**k has Al Saunders been doing the last 2 games? Yes. the highly touted BEST TE in the league today is much aligned to being a blocker? hello? thats what Jason Dunn do not a TE that set a league record in catches.

Like someone else said, DV has a lot to do with the personel in the game and perhaps is neutering Gun & AS from using what they need.

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 01:11 PM
Dude, what is your problem? Why don't you consider for a moment that we all don't have the time, between classes like you apparently do, and going to the Home Depot for our part time job, to sit here and read lengthy shit all day. That's for the night crew, this is a get in and get out forum during the days, unless you want to go over to the Dc forum and hang out there all day like some people.

Brock is a cool dude, settle down n00b
OK, well, if you dont have time to read it, then don't read it. My post certainly doesnt demand everyone to read it. If it looks too long, then skip it and perhaps read it later tonight when you have more time, or just don't read it at all. I just don't like the fact that he is bashing my post before he even reads the darn thing. Thats like someone going to a debate meeting and not even listening to the other person talk and trying to argue with him...doesn't usually work out too well. If he finds flaws with my actual argument, then im certainly open to all opinions. Don't just simply bash a post because you don't like the title of it. That's all I'm trying to say.

PhillySB2006
10-03-2005, 01:17 PM
How can you possbily say your defense was good when they gave up a 24-6 lead?????? I was at the game, TO could have had another 50-100 if he didnt drop a couple of wide open balls. Mcnabb was picking the D apart the entire second half!!!!!!!! Come on.

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 01:18 PM
Like someone else said, DV has a lot to do with the personel in the game and perhaps is neutering Gun & AS from using what they need.

Do you think DV told AS "Hey Al, don't throw the ball to Tony. Keep him in and block and throw the ball instead to Parker because his hands are worse. Also, please call the same play a few times in a row so the D can get the jump on the ball and return it for an easy 6.

"Okay, you can go now, bring Gunther in."

"Gunther, your old defensive style is too aggressive. I want you to play our DBs and LBs 8 yards off the ball at all times and only rush 4 guys. Give McNabb lots of time. Thanks bud."

go bowe
10-03-2005, 01:22 PM
Yes, but I'm trying to show you how/why they scored. Don't simply look at it as they scored, and thats it, our defense sucked. Look at what positions our defense was put in time and time again and how they responded. Funny how you can call my post a "turd of a post" when you don't even read it. That's simply just ignorance.brock is lots of things to lots of people, but ignorant is not one of them...

the post was a turd because it was long and not formatted at all...

the internet has a certain ettiquette...

long single spaced unformatted (and un-pagraph-ized) text is difficut to read onscreen for many people...

generally, most folks around here won't bother to read anything that long and difficult to read because of it's physical attributes, not its content...

jidar
10-03-2005, 01:22 PM
After reading this topic I came in here to blast you. While I didn't think the Defense was terrible I thought saying they did a "good job" was going overboard.

After reading your post though (the fixed version, thanks Bigrock) you've convinced me. The D actually wasn't that bad this game, the Eagles were practically handed the comeback.

jspchief
10-03-2005, 01:24 PM
We gave up 366 yards in 3 quarters of play.

I don't care where Philly's drives started, they moved the ball at will on us. We gave up 31 points on defense, and if it weren't for the Eagles poor STs, it would have been 35 points.

There is nothing "quite well" about what our defense did, unless you are a Philly fan.

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 01:24 PM
Do you think DV told AS "Hey Al, don't throw the ball to Tony. Keep him in and block and throw the ball instead to Parker because his hands are worse. Also, please call the same play a few times in a row so the D can get the jump on the ball and return it for an easy 6.

"Okay, you can go now, bring Gunther in."

"Gunther, your old defensive style is too aggressive. I want you to play our DBs and LBs 8 yards off the ball at all times and only rush 4 guys. Give McNabb lots of time. Thanks bud."


If you are into DV's cryfest in the lockerroom, be my guest. I thought we're talking about a FOOTBALL team. You must not understand the term HEAD COACHING. Who thinks the world of AS, and the same who that thought the world of Greg Robinson back then. DV is way too soft on everyone - especially the one that he has a hand in bringing them into the org. Do you think Gun & AS will feel any pressure of gettin fired mid-season?

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 01:25 PM
How can you possbily say your defense was good when they gave up a 24-6 lead?????? I was at the game, TO could have had another 50-100 if he didnt drop a couple of wide open balls. Mcnabb was picking the D apart the entire second half!!!!!!!! Come on.
Well, did you actually read the post? Again, I would not say our Defense is GOOD. What I am trying to say is they did give us a good effort in yesterdays game, considering the circumstances they found themselves in time and time again. Yes, i do realize they gave up a 24-6 lead, and that is unacceptable, especially in a home game. HOWEVER, if our offense puts up a couple of long, time consuming drives and puts some more points up on the board (especially in the second half), I can gurantee you NOBODY would be so down on our defense right now. They would look at that game and say we did a damn good job. That, however, wasn't the case, and because our offense fizzled out, our defense suffered. Our team isn't built around its defense, it is built solely on its offense. That is dick vermeils philosophy. One philosophy most, if not all, were quite excited about when DV came here. Our team CANNOT afford to have our offense sputter during games. We WILL NOT, as is the case yesterday, win games. That is the argument I'm trying to make...not that our Defense is good.

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 01:27 PM
Brock is a cool dude, settle down n00b

That's an interesting statement, coming from someone who joined the board a mere 6 months ago... :hmmm:

Chiefnj
10-03-2005, 01:27 PM
If you are into DV's cryfest in the lockerroom, be my guest. I thought we're talking about a FOOTBALL team. You must not understand the term HEAD COACHING. Who thinks the world of AS, and the same who that thought the world of Greg Robinson back then. DV is way too soft on everyone - especially the one that he has a hand in bringing them into the org. Do you think Gun & AS will feel any pressure of gettin fired mid-season?

Did you ever once see DV with a defensive call sheet in his hand making calls during the course of a game?

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 01:28 PM
After reading this topic I came in here to blast you. While I didn't think the Defense was terrible I thought saying they did a "good job" was going overboard.

After reading your post though (the fixed version, thanks Bigrock) you've convinced me. The D actually wasn't that bad this game, the Eagles were practically handed the comeback.
Case in point that if you actually read the Post, perhaps I might convince some of you that our Defense aren't the ones to blame this time. Thank you Jidar.

go bowe
10-03-2005, 01:31 PM
That's an interesting statement, coming from someone who joined the board a mere 6 months ago... :hmmm:hey, you're not counting the several months he was here under a different name...

obviously not a noob anymore... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jspchief
10-03-2005, 01:31 PM
What is the defense's job?

If it's to keep the opponent from scoring, they failed.

If it's to keep the opponent from getting yards, they failed.

What exactly did they do right?

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 01:32 PM
Did you ever once see DV with a defensive call sheet in his hand making calls during the course of a game?

You are missing my point. Heac coaching is more than just a speech in the lockerroom or making a critical call on the field during the game. More has to do with preparations and getting up on the players and coaches when "he" the coach does not think his personel is performing up to his standards.

Unless we are all agreeing that DV is getting the best out of his guys - which I must say is his PRIMARY GOAL! Being a softie and droppin a tear here and that's ok but not when it's become the signature of your freaking coaching career!

go bowe
10-03-2005, 01:33 PM
We gave up 366 yards in 3 quarters of play.

I don't care where Philly's drives started, they moved the ball at will on us. We gave up 31 points on defense, and if it weren't for the Eagles poor STs, it would have been 35 points.

There is nothing "quite well" about what our defense did, unless you are a Philly fan.pffft...

priest could have run for that many yards if they had just left him in... :) :) :)

chagrin
10-03-2005, 01:42 PM
That's an interesting statement, coming from someone who joined the board a mere 6 months ago... :hmmm:


o-kay, far as I'm concerned, I have put in alot over the mere 3 months I have been here, the statement and the thread opener had "n00b" written all over it, sorry you don't agree Parker, I haven't been here 3 years yet... :harumph:

Lzen
10-03-2005, 01:46 PM
Do you think DV told AS "Hey Al, don't throw the ball to Tony. Keep him in and block and throw the ball instead to Parker because his hands are worse. Also, please call the same play a few times in a row so the D can get the jump on the ball and return it for an easy 6.

"Okay, you can go now, bring Gunther in."

"Gunther, your old defensive style is too aggressive. I want you to play our DBs and LBs 8 yards off the ball at all times and only rush 4 guys. Give McNabb lots of time. Thanks bud."

I actually chuckled at the absurdity of that DV impression. :LOL:

Shox
10-03-2005, 01:47 PM
You keep looking through those Rose colored glasses if you want, but the fact is the Chiefs D did not play well.

A. 31 unanswered points. Yes some of those points were because of turnovers. But a good defense will respond to a turnover every now and then and make a stop.

B. At least two of the stops early in the first game were because of McNabb not the Chiefs D. He had TO wide open behind the D down the near sideline and over-threw him. Same thing down the middle on the very next drive. He missed a 3rd time (early 2nd half I believe) but you have to give the Chiefs a little credit they were in his face and really forced the bad throw. I observed this first hand in Arrowhead.

C. I don't know how many times the DL went flying at McNabb only to have him take 1/2 a step forward and adious, the defender does flying by and McNabb hits a wideopen receiver. These guys need to learn how to tackle

D. The D was totally lost in the second half. Evidence - Derrick Johnson lined up as a DEFENSIVE BACK on one play.

E. Kendrell Bell is turning out to be a bust. In two home games I have barely heard his name. And he never makes any big plays.

KC defense is still better than last year, but not much at this point. Simms being out is really hurting them. Getting Warfield back should help a lot. The pieces are there to be a solid D (better tacklers, much better speed, better DB/S) but there is still a lot to get worked out.

The jury is still out on the Chiefs D, but the evidence is mounting and time is growing short.

chagrin
10-03-2005, 01:49 PM
hey, you're not counting the several months he was here under a different name...

obviously not a noob anymore... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What other name?

htismaqe
10-03-2005, 01:54 PM
o-kay, far as I'm concerned, I have put in alot over the mere 3 months I have been here, the statement and the thread opener had "n00b" written all over it, sorry you don't agree Parker, I haven't been here 3 years yet... :harumph:

I've been here FIVE.

:D

Lzen
10-03-2005, 01:54 PM
I think what Brad's post boils down to is this:

Our defense is still a work in progress. It is definitely not a great defense. Who knows if it will ever get to that point. But it is good enough to help us win some games. That is, as long as the offense contributes by sustaining drives and not turning the ball over. This defense isn't the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Bucs. But they can be a decent defense. They just aren't good enough to do it all on their own.



Note: I didn't see the Philly game. I'm just basing my opinion on the posts I've seen today and the other 3 games I've seen this year.

papasmurf
10-03-2005, 01:58 PM
It would have been a better effort if somebody would have tried to guard TO in the second half

jspchief
10-03-2005, 02:02 PM
I think what Brad's post boils down to is this:

Our defense is still a work in progress. It is definitely not a great defense. Who knows if it will ever get to that point. But it is good enough to help us win some games. That is, as long as the offense contributes by sustaining drives and not turning the ball over. This defense isn't the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Bucs. But they can be a decent defense. They just aren't good enough to do it all on their own.



Note: I didn't see the Philly game. I'm just basing my opinion on the posts I've seen today and the other 3 games I've seen this year. Our offense scored 31 points at home. The team handed the defense an 18 point lead late in the second quarter.

Regardless of how poorly the O played, the D failed miserably.

It just shows how skewed Chiefs fans opinion of good defense has become. It's been so long since we've played good D, people have forgotten what it looks like.

Johnson&Johnson
10-03-2005, 02:05 PM
It would have been a better effort if somebody would have tried to guard TO in the second half

Terrell Owens is the best if not one of the 2 best WR in the game today (the other #18 with OAK).

Because of TO being left open to put up amazing numbers, you forget that KC D stopped Westbrook. But what a lot of us have neglected to view is the leadership and play of McNabb. No matter how the D got to his face or knock him off after he throws, it does not rattle the guy. Cuz a true leader and competitor is gonna make the play when it counts. Unlike our Trent Green. if under similar situations would have panic and dump a bunch of ill-advised passes or just being his own self of falling down for a sack.

Frankie
10-03-2005, 02:13 PM
You dont know jack about football these turkeys are giving up 300 yards passing a game. Last week the Broncos ran all over them. The fact is the Colts gave the formula for whipping the Chiefs. The secondary is confused most of the time so you don't even have to try to run the ball just throw throw throw!!!
We imported a solid safety and a probowler for our secondary. Yes, Warfield is missing. But here's how one of major problems spells: G-I-U-N-T-A.

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 02:36 PM
I think what Brad's post boils down to is this:

Our defense is still a work in progress. It is definitely not a great defense. Who knows if it will ever get to that point. But it is good enough to help us win some games. That is, as long as the offense contributes by sustaining drives and not turning the ball over. This defense isn't the 2000 Ravens or the 2002 Bucs. But they can be a decent defense. They just aren't good enough to do it all on their own.



Note: I didn't see the Philly game. I'm just basing my opinion on the posts I've seen today and the other 3 games I've seen this year.
That is exactly what I'm trying to make some people realize. If our offense has too many 3 and outs and turnovers, we are screwed, because our defense can't stop teams, especially late in the game. Remember, I AM IN NO WAY TRYING TO SAY OUR DEFENSE IS GOOD, or anywhere close to being good. (What I said in my original post is that they played quite well yesterday despite what most of you think.) However, our defense should be and is good enough for us to win games like yesterday's game. That will not happen if our offense sputters/turns the ball over. We had 0 pts in the second half people! (outside the last minute drive in which we actually realized we were an offensive team instead of a defensive one.) In fact, we didn't score any offensive pts after the green to kennison TD pass with 13:45 left in the second quarter. Our offense cannot afford to shut down like that, PERIOD. That is the argument I am trying to make...and thank you Lzen for seeing that.

papasmurf
10-03-2005, 02:39 PM
Terrell Owens is the best if not one of the 2 best WR in the game today (the other #18 with OAK).

Because of TO being left open to put up amazing numbers, you forget that KC D stopped Westbrook. But what a lot of us have neglected to view is the leadership and play of McNabb. No matter how the D got to his face or knock him off after he throws, it does not rattle the guy. Cuz a true leader and competitor is gonna make the play when it counts. Unlike our Trent Green. if under similar situations would have panic and dump a bunch of ill-advised passes or just being his own self of falling down for a sack.

Not saying TO isn't good, I just wanted someone to guard him. In the second half there was times we didn't have a defender within 20 yards of him.

the Talking Can
10-03-2005, 02:45 PM
our D is only succesful if our offense dominates...it can't win if the offense falters

just like last year

the offense is to blame for yesterday, obviously...but 31 points is more then enough to win at home...we've given up over 60 points in two weeks

that's not good, by any definition...we'd thought we'd have a D that could stand on its own, but we don't

thebrad84
10-03-2005, 02:52 PM
31 points is more then enough to win at home...we've given up over 60 points in two weeks I agree, but those 31 pts can not come about like they did. We can't put up 24 pts in really only 1 quarter, and then "turn ourselves off" and not worry about putting any more points on the board, especially against a team like the Eagles. At the very least, we needed to have some big, long drives in which we got a couple of field goals. We needed to be able to give our defense some rest, while killing some clock and putting some more points on the board. If we can't do that, with this offense, then we are going to be another wasted season. My opinion anways.

ROYC75
10-03-2005, 03:02 PM
OK, we knew there would be a game or two where our defense would have to stand up and win the game for us............





This wasn't one of them .





You don't turn it over 4 times and give up that many points and expect to win. A total breakdown of the offense plus the defense's inability to step it up against a very good team.

As much as the coaching let this game go , so did the turnovers by the players.