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Spicy McHaggis
10-04-2005, 02:26 PM
Straight off let me say that I'm just rolling the option around in my mind. It was brought up by one of my good friends who just enlisted herself recently. I'm at college right now and while its fun I just don't know if its where I want to go. I've always considered a military career partially because we have a family history in it and partially because I've always found it interesting. My dad decided against it when he was my age simply because he wanted a family at a younger age and didn't want us moving from base to base.

So right now I'm just doing some research and the like. The branch I'm most interested in right now is the USAF. I'm just writing this because I value the Planet's input and would appreciate any advice at all on the issue, dealing with recruiters, taking the asvab, personal experiences, anything at all. Gracias por todos.

Donger
10-04-2005, 02:27 PM
Straight off let me say that I'm just rolling the option around in my mind. It was brought up by one of my good friends who just enlisted herself recently. I'm at college right now and while its fun I just don't know if its where I want to go. I've always considered a military career partially because we have a family history in it and partially because I've always found it interesting. My dad decided against it when he was my age simply because he wanted a family at a younger age and didn't want us moving from base to base.

So right now I'm just doing some research and the like. The branch I'm most interested in right now is the USAF. I'm just writing this because I value the Planet's input and would appreciate any advice at all on the issue, dealing with recruiters, taking the asvab, personal experiences, anything at all. Gracias por todos.

Have you considered ROTC?

Pitt Gorilla
10-04-2005, 02:28 PM
The ASVAB is basically a competency test.

SLAG
10-04-2005, 02:28 PM
I would only Join the USAF if they stationed me in NORAD

Saulbadguy
10-04-2005, 02:29 PM
Don't do it! It's a trap!
http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/b/be/Ackbar.jpg

ChiefsCountry
10-04-2005, 02:33 PM
Go to Air Force ROTC.

ROYC75
10-04-2005, 02:35 PM
The Bad :
My SIL is in Iraq now...... that's not a good thing, but the nature of the beast.

The Good : The benefits are good and even better if you retire like my SIL is planning to do after 20 years. He has 12 years left now and will only be 38 when he gets. Time to start another career and benefits, and a 2nd retirement.

Chief Henry
10-04-2005, 02:52 PM
Best wishes to you.

Dr. Johnny Fever
10-04-2005, 02:59 PM
I have a certain admiration for people who feel called to put themselves in harms way to protect us. It's a scary thing. Good luck to you whatever you decide.

JBucc
10-04-2005, 03:04 PM
Don't get shot

StcChief
10-04-2005, 03:16 PM
My dad was USAF in Korean war. he worked motor pool, drove truck, of course 1955.

If I was going to anyone AF would be my choice.

Not gonna a battle between which branch is better.

redbrian
10-04-2005, 03:18 PM
The Air Force is a good choice (as an ex-airman Iím a little biased).

Air Force basic is a joke, do what you are told, follow instructions and pay attention.

Donít know what your skill set or interests are, but a good job in the Air Force is Air Traffic Control.

You are restricted to 40 hours a week duty, and itís really not that tough of a job.

If you like a little more adventure try combat controller, thatís an air traffic controller who gets dropped behind lines and sets up temp airports.

I can also highly recommend putting in for overseas duty, as the Air Force has some great locations over seas and it gives you an opportunity to see the US from another perspective if you take full advantage of the opportunity.

As far as school goes you can finish while in the Air Force.

Good luck to you, just remember to have fun and take advantage of all thatís available to you.

Rausch
10-04-2005, 03:19 PM
I regret not signing up right after high school.

It would have done me a world of good...

Bowser
10-04-2005, 03:20 PM
I did a tour in the Air Force. If I had it to do all over again, I might have just made a career of it. They take very good care of you. Or did, when I was in (1989-1993).

I will say this - basic training in the AF compared to the Army and Marines is laughable.

Ultra Peanut
10-04-2005, 03:20 PM
You mean too much to the forum, n00b. Don't leave us!

Iowanian
10-04-2005, 03:21 PM
Its not a decision to make lightly or on a whim.

Serving our country is a noble and respectable choice. Its not something that pays well or doesn't have to option of putting you in grave danger.

My brother and some other family members joined the Army about the time this conflict began, and is in a rough area of Iraq now.

I didn't get in, so I'm probably not qualified for the pros or cons.

I'll say this...if you do choose to serve....you have my gratitude and respect.

redbrian
10-04-2005, 03:25 PM
I will say this - basic training in the AF compared to the Army and Marines is laughable.

Ain't that the truth, I actually came out in worse shape than I went in.

I was use to lifting weights and running every day before going in.

All we really did in basic was to do a hell of a lot of marching, and as I understand it now if the temp gets above 100 they have to sit in the shade or go inside.

BIG_DADDY
10-04-2005, 03:28 PM
I'll say this...if you do choose to serve....you have my gratitude and respect.

Amen.

Bowser
10-04-2005, 03:28 PM
Ain't that the truth, I actually came out in worse shape than I went in.

I was use to lifting weights and running every day before going in.

All we really did in basic was to do a hell of a lot of marching, and as I understand it now if the temp gets above 100 they have to sit in the shade or go inside.

Heh. IIRC, those are "Black Flag" days, and you get to replce PT with more classroom work.

That was the hardest part of the whole deal - trying to stay awake in classroom.

HemiEd
10-04-2005, 03:32 PM
I highly recommend it, even if it is only the Air Force. I would not go into it with the career idea, make up your mind near the end of your first hitch. I spent 4 1/2 years in the Navy and it was very good experience. I would not sell the experience for any amount of money and would not give a nickel for another minute of it.

DanT
10-04-2005, 03:42 PM
Here is a package of articles called "What the Recruiter Never Told You" and written by a retired US Air Force sergeant. It has all sorts of useful information:

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/recruiter1_2.htm

Simplex3
10-04-2005, 03:51 PM
I have an uncle who has spent his whole career in the Air Force (he's a civilian contractor now) and his quote to me out of high school was "If you join the Air Force you'd better become a pilot, otherwise you're liable to be scraping bird poop off a runway in Guam."

The Marines got me to take some trial ASVAB which I scored 100% on. They were pushing me pretty hard (college, choice of duty, etc) but I figured out that I have a massive authority problem so the service probably wasn't a good idea for me.

Rain Man
10-04-2005, 03:53 PM
When I saw the thread header, I assumed he was talking about the circus.


If it's the military, go for it. You'll either get killed, or you'll get a nice enlistment bonus and pension. Either way, your future's pretty much taken care of.

patteeu
10-04-2005, 03:56 PM
Air Force ROTC. You're already in college, I wouldn't quit now. Finish while you're in ROTC and you'll get the best of both worlds.

dtebbe
10-04-2005, 04:08 PM
I would choose the service based on who is going to offer you the best choice of assignment/training. The Air Force usually does not guarantee a specific field, unless you want to be a SP or some other grunt job. If you score well on the ASVAB you should have a wide choice with the Army or Marines, and perhaps Navy too. The only downside to ROTC, is you get stuck wherever they need a warm officer body, so again you could get a crappy field. Depending on how many credit hours you have you can sometimes enlist at up to a E-4 rank. Gives you a big head-start, but you will catch serious shit while you are in basic and AIT/tech school. Who cares, you're getting paid, and once you get to permanant duty station they won't know you're green.

I signed up in the Army in Jan. of my senior year in high school. I would do the same thing today if I had to do it all over again. I came out of the Army at 22 and had my AS and 3 years of exp. as a broadcast engineer. I was waaaay ahead of the guys who went to college, and I had zero student loans to pay off.

DT

jAZ
10-04-2005, 04:33 PM
I'm at college right now and while its fun I just don't know if its where I want to go. I've always considered a military career partially because we have a family history in it and partially because I've always found it interesting.
Sounds like you are joining for exactly the right reason (personal interest), but I would STRONGLY recommend finishing your degree and going to OTC. It's a sizable pay increase having a degree even if you aren't committed to the degree/field you are studying now and have no intention of going private sector ever. It's still very valuable.

Chiefsrocker
10-04-2005, 04:58 PM
My Brother in law joined when he was 20. he says it was the best choice he ever made. he is on his second topur of Iraq, and will be out after he gets back. He is the highest rand he can go, so he is happy he did it.

BIG_DADDY
10-04-2005, 05:02 PM
but I figured out that I have a massive authority problem so the service probably wasn't a good idea for me.

Me too, I always had a problem with authority and probably always will. It's much better than it used to be though. :)

|Zach|
10-06-2005, 06:50 PM
Count me in as someone else seriously considering this...I will prob make a decision in a few weeks.

Phobia
10-06-2005, 06:56 PM
You college boys should finish college and then join.

The difference between a n00b enlistee and n00b commissioned officer is about $20k per year and about 1/10th the bullshit.

When you get really serious, drop me a PM and I'll talk to you about some tricks over the phone. I don't feel like typing all that out again.

|Zach|
10-06-2005, 07:03 PM
You college boys should finish college and then join.

The difference between a n00b enlistee and n00b commissioned officer is about $20k per year and about 1/10th the bullshit.

When you get really serious, drop me a PM and I'll talk to you about some tricks over the phone. I don't feel like typing all that out again.
Ya, I am sitting down the family 37 Forever weekend and we are all going to hash something out. I may pick your brain a little bit when we catch each other.

joesomebody
10-06-2005, 07:03 PM
Well... I have been in the AF for just over 3 years now... loved it, would do it again, and have no regrets.

My best advice to you is be sure to get a guaranteed job no matter what your recruiter tells you... do not and I repeat, do not go in as an Open for any of the 4 ASVAB categories... get a guaranteed job... And not a guaranteed job of para-jumper, SERE instructor, or EOD... as you probably won't make it through those tech schools and will end up passing towells out at the gym or flipping hamburgers at the chowhall...

I don't know you, I only say you probably won't make it through the tech schools because the odds are horrible, and you will get shafted for job choices if you don't make it through the tech school

I don't reccomend the maintenance side of the Air Force as we work the longest hours and do the most work, besides security forces they too are shafted daily.

I'd try for something in the medical area, like Radiation technician... Meterorology would be cool as well. Don't do intel, unless you have a spotless background because they will find out everything about you, regardless of what lies you tell the recruiter and what you put on your forms. Not to mention Intel have no friends beause they can't talk to anyone...

Don't sign up for 6, sign up for 4 regardless of the sign on bonus... coming in as an A1C doesn't mean jack... its the difference between being a freshman in high school and being a freshman in high school that transferred into a new school, they both suck, neither last very long, so just stick with it and you'll be an A1C a few months after the guys that signed up for 6

No one I know that signed up for 6 was glad they did...

Basic Training is a breeze, it won't seem like it while you are there, but once its over you'll look back and laugh at how easy it was.

Don't wear or pack any Air Force items of clothing to Basic as it will just cause trouble, beleive me. Don't bring a cell phone, don't bring anything of value, pack nothing but plain blue jeans and simple black or grey t-shirts... nothing that stands out, even your belt and shoes need to be as basic and normal as you can, because you'll be wearing civilian clothing or "civvies" for at least 2 to 3 days upon arriving, and you DO NOT want to stand out at any point during Basic Training.

Try very very hard not to be the Dorm Chief, an element leader, or on the Latrene crew... if you are at all religious, try very very very hard to be the Chaple Guide... best job in basic. Also, KP duty is actually a good thing.

Saulbadguy
10-06-2005, 07:06 PM
Ya, I am sitting down the family 37 Forever weekend and we are all going to hash something out. I may pick your brain a little bit when we catch each other.
Just don't drag me in to any of this.

|Zach|
10-06-2005, 07:06 PM
Just don't drag me in to any of this.
ROFL

rocks
10-06-2005, 07:29 PM
I would say go for it. If you are looking for training, go USAF. If you want to defend the country and would like to have the opportunity to send a rag head to visit Allah, go MARINES. I was Marine ROTC in college and then did my time, got out and then did private contract work in Columbia. Got all of the action I could handle. Good Luck!

4th and Long
10-06-2005, 07:30 PM
I've always considered a military career
Given the current state of the world, this ...
http://www.perryfuneral.com/images/MilitaryCasket.jpg
is not a career.

Saulbadguy
10-06-2005, 07:34 PM
uh oh.

4th and Long
10-06-2005, 07:37 PM
uh oh.
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4214/655ox.gif

rocks
10-06-2005, 07:38 PM
Every one has their day to die. May as well help someone else find that day.

Bowser
10-06-2005, 07:39 PM
And for Gods sake, don't forget about any condoms you might have in your wallet when you go to basic........

Bowser
10-06-2005, 07:40 PM
Given the current state of the world, this ...
http://www.perryfuneral.com/images/MilitaryCasket.jpg
is not a career.

We're talking Air Force here, 4th. It's not the "real" military. Just ask any former ground pounder......

4th and Long
10-06-2005, 08:15 PM
We're talking Air Force here, 4th. It's not the "real" military. Just ask any former ground pounder......
Although the "ground pounders" suffer far worse on the casualty list, I would be willing to bet the following people would make an argument, well that is, if they were still alive, that it does not matter what uniform you wear or what branch of the service you are in right now, you are still at high risk to end up 6 feet under.

Operation Iraqi Freedom US Air Force Casualty List

Gregory Lewis Stone, 40, Air National Guard Major, Mar 25, 2003
Eric Bruce Das, 30, Air Force Captain, Apr 07, 2003
William Randolph Watkins III, 37, Air Force Major, Apr 07, 2003
Scott Douglas Sather, 29, Air Force Staff Sergeant, Apr 08, 2003
Patrick Lee Griffin Jr., 31, Air Force Staff Sergeant, May 13, 2003
David A. Scott, 51, Air Force Master Sergeant, Jul 20, 2003
Bruce E. Brown, 32, Air Force Technical Sergeant, Sep 04, 2003
Jude C. Mariano, 39, Air Force Master Sergeant, Feb 10, 2004
Antoine J. Holt, 20, Air Force Airman 1st Class, Apr 10, 2004
Pedro I. Espaillat Jr., 20, Air Force Senior Airman, May 15, 2004
Dustin W. Peters, 25, Air Force Staff Sergeant, Jul 11, 2004
Carl L. Anderson Jr., 21, Air Force Airman 1st Class, Aug 29, 2004
John J. Boria, 29, Air Force Captain, Sep 06, 2004
Steven E. Auchman, 37, Air Force Master Sergeant, Nov 09, 2004
Derek Argel, 28, Air Force Captain, May 30, 2005
Casey Crate, 26, Air Force Staff Sergeant, May 30, 2005
William Downs, 40, Air Force Major, May 30, 2005
Jeremy Fresques, 26, Air Force Captain, May 30, 2005
Elizabeth N. Jacobson, 21, Air Force Airman 1st Class, Sep 28, 2005

Bowser
10-06-2005, 08:27 PM
My reply was pretty much tongue in cheek, but I am fully aware that the Air Force has casualities.

From my own personal experience, the Air Force was probably the best thing to happen to me at that point in my life, and have no problem recomending it to others who are thinking about signing up to do a tour.

Frazod
10-06-2005, 08:46 PM
We're talking Air Force here, 4th. It's not the "real" military. Just ask any former ground pounder......

My best friend is a Captain in the Air Force. Sure, he's in the security forces, but you'd think he'd be guarding a friggin base or something. WRONG. He's in charge of running prisoner convoys in and out of f#cking Baghdad.

So anyone thinking the Air Force doesn't get it's ass in the grass (or sand, as the case may be) might want to keep this in mind.

Another thing to consider: the oath you take says you're signing up to defend your country against its enemies. That doesn't seem to be the way things are working out these days. Fighting people who would otherwise only be f#cking with each other doesn't seem to qualify in my opinion.

C-Mac
10-06-2005, 08:48 PM
I'm just writing this because I value the Planet's input and would appreciate any advice at all on the issue, dealing with recruiters, taking the asvab, personal experiences, anything at all. Gracias por todos.

"Are you now, or ever have been, homosexual?"

"Its just a general question we are required to ask"

joesomebody
10-06-2005, 08:49 PM
My reply was pretty much tongue in cheek, but I am fully aware that the Air Force has casualities.

From my own personal experience, the Air Force was probably the best thing to happen to me at that point in my life, and have no problem recomending it to others who are thinking about signing up to do a tour.Agree 100% Bowser... I say weigh your options, and go for it... I just suggest a 4 year tour, as any advantage to a 6 year tour is outweighed by the extra 2 years of service...

Bowser
10-06-2005, 08:54 PM
Wow, didn't expect such defense of the Air Force.

My whole "ground pounder" remark comes from my experience in Okinawa. There was one huge Air Force base there, and about nine Marine bases. The Marines hated us, and called us "civilians in uniform", because our jobs were pretty close to just that - jobs. We didn't have to get up and run 10 miles or do calisthenics every morning, E-1's got their own rooms with refrigerators (while Marine Sergants were sleeping four to a room), and our clubs and chow halls were far superior to anything they ever had on any of their bases.

All that said, I know Air Force personnel are just as much at risk as other branches of the military are. The point I'm making to Zach and others is that the Air Force is a good life.

Frazod
10-06-2005, 09:08 PM
Wow, didn't expect such defense of the Air Force.

My whole "ground pounder" remark comes from my experience in Okinawa. There was one huge Air Force base there, and about nine Marine bases. The Marines hated us, and called us "civilians in uniform", because our jobs were pretty close to just that - jobs. We didn't have to get up and run 10 miles or do calisthenics every morning, E-1's got their own rooms with refrigerators (while Marine Sergants were sleeping four to a room), and our clubs and chow halls were far superior to anything they ever had on any of their bases.

All that said, I know Air Force personnel are just as much at risk as other branches of the military are. The point I'm making to Zach and others is that the Air Force is a good life.
My friend the captain was initially enlisted in the Air Force - we took our ASVABs together and went it about the same time. For a couple of months he was stationed at Hampton AFB when I was on my ship in Norfolk. I took him on a tour of my ship, and he was horrified. As an E-2 (or whatever he was at the time) his accommodations, two to a room, were the same as the junior officers on my ship. Of course, enlisted men on a ship sleep about 100 to a compartment in three-level bunk beds. It seemed that the Air Force treated its enlisted men like we treated our officers, and their officers were treated like kings.

Very annoying. :grr:

Of course, I got to travel more. That made up for it somewhat.

Bowser
10-06-2005, 09:14 PM
My friend the captain was initially enlisted in the Air Force - we took our ASVABs together and went it about the same time. For a couple of months he was stationed at Hampton AFB when I was on my ship in Norfolk. I took him on a tour of my ship, and he was horrified. As an E-2 (or whatever he was at the time) his accommodations, two to a room, were the same as the junior officers on my ship. Of course, enlisted men on a ship sleep about 100 to a compartment in three-level bunk beds. It seemed that the Air Force treated its enlisted men like we treated our officers, and their officers were treated like kings.

Very annoying. :grr:

Of course, I got to travel more. That made up for it somewhat.

Heh. Air Force guys, enlisted and commisioned, are spoiled. No two ways about it. It used to be that once you got to Staff Sergant (E-5), you were eligible for base housing, meaning no house payments or utilities. First Lieutenants (or Ensigns) were offered the same, but their houses were generally a little bigger and nicer.

Were you ever stationed on a sub, fraz?

Halfcan
10-06-2005, 09:15 PM
Good luck Hagis whatever you do.

Frazod
10-06-2005, 09:17 PM
Heh. Air Force guys, enlisted and commisioned, are spoiled. No two ways about it. It used to be that once you got to Staff Sergant (E-5), you were eligible for base housing, meaning no house payments or utilities. First Lieutenants (or Ensigns) were offered the same, but their houses were generally a little bigger and nicer.

Were you ever stationed on a sub, fraz?

Oh God no. Not seeing land for a couple of weeks was bad enough - I can't image not seeing the sky for a couple of months. :eek:

I was on a supply ship. Nothing glamorous, but there was plenty of shore time - we were basically in port half the time we were deployed reloading. Pretty good duty (except for the guys in the supply department).

Bowser
10-06-2005, 09:20 PM
Oh God no. Not seeing land for a couple of weeks was bad enough - I can't image not seeing the sky for a couple of months. :eek:

I was on a supply ship. Nothing glamorous, but there was plenty of shore time - we were basically in port half the time we were deployed reloading. Pretty good duty (except for the guys in the supply department).

Friend of mine was on the Alabama. He said the longest the sub was under was almost six months. That would push me over the edge.

Frazod
10-06-2005, 09:23 PM
Friend of mine was on the Alabama. He said the longest the sub was under was almost six months. That would push me over the edge.

Those guys have to undergo extreme psychological testing before they are approved for sub service. I'm not anywhere near that sane (or crazy, depending on how you look at it).

Spicy McHaggis
10-06-2005, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the advice everybody, the read Dan T had and Joe Somebody's bit were especially enlightening. Phobia I might just take you up on that offer later and ask you some ?'s ZachKC let me know what you're thinking too, we can exchange notes and such.

Right now I'm going to wait a bit, visit recruiters from the different branches and see. My cousin recently joined the marines himself and is getting ready to be deployed so hopefully I'll get his input as well.

Regardless I'm aware this is a large decision but I feel that if I don't really look into it, then I might severely regret not doing so. I'll keep you posted and thanks again.

mcan
10-07-2005, 04:06 AM
Figure out exactly what job you want in the Air Force, and SIGN a guarunteed contract for that job and THAT JOB ONLY... They will try to give you the runaround, and get you to sign on the dotted line, and give you all sorts of excuses why you can't get that job, or they'll say that after you sign up, you'll be given a choice of jobs, blah, blah, blah... It's all bull. They will send you where they want/need you unless you have a contractual agreement already in place BEFORE you sign.

My good friend wished to be an air traffic controller, and get his training and experience throught the Air Force. It took about a month of phone calls and dodging high pressure recruiting, and a handfull of people telling him that "The Air Force doesn't do contracts anymore" before they finally cracked down and gave him what he wanted. They don't like sending people away, only slightly more than they don't like giving you what you want...

By the way, my friend is now out of the Air Force, and should be landing a FAA job any time now...

Saggysack
10-07-2005, 04:51 AM
Given the current state of the world, this ...
http://www.perryfuneral.com/images/MilitaryCasket.jpg
is not a career.

:shake:

Ok, Mr. Pharmacy Tech.

Inspector
10-07-2005, 06:45 AM
Thanks for considering the protection of our country.

Don't forget to duck.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
10-07-2005, 07:15 AM
Can't speak a whole lot for the Air Force, mainly because I did 15.5 years in the Army. However, I was stationed nearly 5 years on an Air Force Base (schools and instructor duty), so I did get to see both sides.

Can't disagree much with what advice you've been given. Get as much as you can in writing before signing on the dotted line. Recruiters will promise you anything and then convienently forget what they said. If it's not in writing, it's not going to happen.

On, and in response to 4th and Long's response. I think there's more people killed in this country in car wrecks than have been killed in the military lately. If your time's up, it's up, no matter where you are. When I was in Saudi during the first Gulf War, 80% of the casualties the 101st took were from accidents (mostly driving related). Stuff happens and when you're working with big equipment (trucks, HEMITTS, generators, etc), big stuff happens. :shrug:

I was in MI for my tour in the military and if you can get your clearance, there are a lot of great things that you can do in those fields (esp. spending a year or more in Monterey CA at the government's expense . . . really broke my heart to have to go there twice).

If you want to discuss careers, I'll be at the 37Forever Banquet also.

Lipschitz
10-07-2005, 08:11 AM
I read the thread you started and the comments that were up to the time I'm sending this PM.

I would highly recommend completing college and then applying for a commission in one of the services. Top to bottom the safest services are (guarded list)
1 Air Force - Normally only pilots and air crews are put in harms way
2. Navy - Typically sailors on ships are far enough to sea that there will be no real threat. Seals are another story.
3. Coast Guard - Most danger comes from coastal watch type commands that are heavily involved with the war on drugs, some of those guys carry enough weapons to start a small war.
4. Army - Second line of defense when it comes to on ground imminent danger.
5. Marines - These are the hard core guys that do what the rest of the services do not have to do. They go in first, they go in hard and they die a glorious hero's death.

Patton said (In so many words) Our job is not to die for our country, it is to arrange for the other SOB die for his.

If you are joining for anything other than a career, enlisted wise, do the short term. You can always re-enlist after the first tour. If you are set for the 20-30 mark, do the 6+ year enlistment, take the bonus; after all if you are going to be there for an extended period, take all the money you can. One person mentioned that being an E3 early does you no good, that is not exactly right. When you attempt to advance in rank in most services, if not all, you have a minimum time to serve at each level. Starting 6 - 9 months early will give you more money in pay and allowances. If you are going the officer route you may not have the opportunity for bonuses, it seems those are mostly for the enlisted types.

What ever your decision, make it for yourself and do not let anyone talk you into something that does not make you feel comfortable. I don't know if you can get guaranteed training in any of the services. Army and Marines always have a primary job code of ground pounder.

Good luck with your decision and in all things God's Speed!

Lipschitz
10-07-2005, 08:12 AM
Can't speak a whole lot for the Air Force, mainly because I did 15.5 years in the Army. However, I was stationed nearly 5 years on an Air Force Base (schools and instructor duty), so I did get to see both sides.

Can't disagree much with what advice you've been given. Get as much as you can in writing before signing on the dotted line. Recruiters will promise you anything and then convienently forget what they said. If it's not in writing, it's not going to happen.

On, and in response to 4th and Long's response. I think there's more people killed in this country in car wrecks than have been killed in the military lately. If your time's up, it's up, no matter where you are. When I was in Saudi during the first Gulf War, 80% of the casualties the 101st took were from accidents (mostly driving related). Stuff happens and when you're working with big equipment (trucks, HEMITTS, generators, etc), big stuff happens. :shrug:

I was in MI for my tour in the military and if you can get your clearance, there are a lot of great things that you can do in those fields (esp. spending a year or more in Monterey CA at the government's expense . . . really broke my heart to have to go there twice).

If you want to discuss careers, I'll be at the 37Forever Banquet also.
Why did you give up on the Army with only 4.5 years to go to get a pension?

4th and Long
10-07-2005, 05:28 PM
:shake:

Ok, Mr. Pharmacy Tech.
That's Mr. Pharmcay Buyer, you dumbass.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
10-07-2005, 09:38 PM
Why did you give up on the Army with only 4.5 years to go to get a pension?

Pretty simple.

They made me an offer I could refuse. I'd been at Ft. Meade for 14 months when I came down on orders for Korea with a guaranteed return assignment at Ft. Campbell.

I had a heart to heart with my branch manager about that. Seems I was up for E-8, so he was going to send me to Ft. Campbell to be a First Sergeant so his buddies, who were also E-8s, but had only been strategic could get "koosh" twilight tours.

His exact words to me were, "You're too close to retirement, you won't get out. I can send you anywhere I want."

My reply. "Look, I had a life before I joined and I'll have a life when I get out. Besides, I have to reenlist to accept the assignment to Korea, so you put me on orders with a return to Campbell, and I'll walk."

"No, you won't."

So, he did, and I did. Boy, did I get a phone call from him when my declination to reenlist hit his desk. :evil:

I'd been getting a little disallusioned about the military about then anyway, so when I got an offer to jump over to be a government contractor at about 2x the pay I was getting in the military and regular hours, plus the opportunity to see my daughter grow up, it just seemed right to take it.

So, yeah, I don't get the retirement check, but the $1200 a month I walked away from is more than made up in my pay as a government contractor. Best thing was, I went back to work at my old unit, only sporting a beard and enjoying life.

go bo
10-07-2005, 10:44 PM
what's a koosh?

is that a cousin to cootch?

or maybe a sister to swoosh?

and a twilight tour sounds so romantic...

i wonder what it means... :shrug:

stupefied minds want to know... :bong: :bong: :bong:

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 06:32 AM
Pretty simple.

They made me an offer I could refuse. I'd been at Ft. Meade for 14 months when I came down on orders for Korea with a guaranteed return assignment at Ft. Campbell.



I can understand that. I've known some in the past that got out on a whim because they were pissed off.

I see by the picture on your website that you are as old and ugly as some of the rest of us. I haven't taken time to read all of your home page, but will sometime this morning.

I have a very good friend that works for Booz Allen Hamilton. She is currently in Iowa. If you ever go there, let me know and I'll give you her name. She is a retired Senior Chief, I met her while working on the Armed Forces Day Air Show in Orlando. Very smart lady and good at what she does.

Sometimes the guys that do the detailing/assignments in the military seem to have a "I can do what ever I want to and you can't do anything about it" attitude, in your case you proved the guy was really in over his head. You did what was right for you and landed on your feet running. Good for you!!!

Cntrygal
10-08-2005, 09:33 AM
Well... I have been in the AF for just over 3 years now... loved it, would do it again, and have no regrets.

My best advice to you is be sure to get a guaranteed job no matter what your recruiter tells you... do not and I repeat, do not go in as an Open for any of the 4 ASVAB categories... get a guaranteed job... And not a guaranteed job of para-jumper, SERE instructor, or EOD... as you probably won't make it through those tech schools and will end up passing towells out at the gym or flipping hamburgers at the chowhall...

I don't know you, I only say you probably won't make it through the tech schools because the odds are horrible, and you will get shafted for job choices if you don't make it through the tech school

I don't reccomend the maintenance side of the Air Force as we work the longest hours and do the most work, besides security forces they too are shafted daily.

I'd try for something in the medical area, like Radiation technician... Meterorology would be cool as well. Don't do intel, unless you have a spotless background because they will find out everything about you, regardless of what lies you tell the recruiter and what you put on your forms. Not to mention Intel have no friends beause they can't talk to anyone...

Don't sign up for 6, sign up for 4 regardless of the sign on bonus... coming in as an A1C doesn't mean jack... its the difference between being a freshman in high school and being a freshman in high school that transferred into a new school, they both suck, neither last very long, so just stick with it and you'll be an A1C a few months after the guys that signed up for 6

No one I know that signed up for 6 was glad they did...

Basic Training is a breeze, it won't seem like it while you are there, but once its over you'll look back and laugh at how easy it was.

Don't wear or pack any Air Force items of clothing to Basic as it will just cause trouble, beleive me. Don't bring a cell phone, don't bring anything of value, pack nothing but plain blue jeans and simple black or grey t-shirts... nothing that stands out, even your belt and shoes need to be as basic and normal as you can, because you'll be wearing civilian clothing or "civvies" for at least 2 to 3 days upon arriving, and you DO NOT want to stand out at any point during Basic Training.

Try very very hard not to be the Dorm Chief, an element leader, or on the Latrene crew... if you are at all religious, try very very very hard to be the Chaple Guide... best job in basic. Also, KP duty is actually a good thing.


Good post! I hit 17 in July. :thumb:

Hammock Parties
10-08-2005, 09:48 AM
Basic Training is a breeze, it won't seem like it while you are there, but once its over you'll look back and laugh at how easy it was.

What do you mean?

Also, what do you mean by "spotless background" for AF intelligence?

Hammock Parties
10-08-2005, 09:49 AM
And for Gods sake, don't forget about any condoms you might have in your wallet when you go to basic........

What do you mean?

Cntrygal
10-08-2005, 09:50 AM
I1 Air Force - Normally only pilots and air crews are put in harms way


Wrong. Here are a FEW things that NON pilots/air crews do in the AF. Build/maintain the "bases/camps" that in theater (contrary to popular belief - we do "allow" Army and Marines in). Builds/repairs runways. Fire Protection. EOD. Provide the food/bx or px among other services. Provides the fuel for vehicles (any aircraft), maintenance for vehicles. Communications are there for obvious reasons. Medical .... obvious. Security Forces... obvious. EVERYONE can get pulled for security details/convoy duty.

With all of these people - of course, we have to have a few chaplains around. :clap:

DeepPurple
10-08-2005, 10:30 AM
I was in your situation 35 years ago. In 1969 I was in the second year of college studying hotel management, since I grew up in Florida it seemed like a good field. I began taking flying lessons and really enjoyed hanging out at the airport, visiting the control tower, walking around the terminal, but flying scared the heck out of me.

I had deceided I wanted to be a controller, even though I had a draft lottery number of 265 (too high to be drafted) and a college deferment, I went ahead and enlisted in the army. Two reasons, the army only required three years service and the air force and navy required a four year enlistment, and the army guaranteed your school in writing but the air force made you choose three schools and they deceided your future for you halfway through basic training.

At the time, the FAA only hired civilian controllers who had at least three years ATC experience, essentially a catch 22 since the military was the only place to gain such experience. After the strike of 1981 that has changed since there was a huge shortage, currently I don't know the requirements.

My three years in the service went great. I was honor graduate of my ATC class and was promoted to an E-4 after just six months in the army. I was issued orders for Vietnam but they were cancelled three days later in November 1970. I was sent to Korea instead and spent 13 months there and was promoted to an E-5 buck sergeant after just 16 months in the army and was site chief at my airfield. I returned to spend 12 months in Savannah, Georgia at Hunter Army Airfield, a real nice assignment since the base was right in the city and there was a lot of nightlife.

After I got out, I was hired by the FAA in 1974 and was a GS-13 controller making $40K a year by the time I was 29 in Pensacola, Florida. Today a GS-13 makes $90K a year.

As many others have written, if you plan on making a career out of the military, an officer is the best route to go. Better pay, better housing, better life. If your looking to just pick up a trade, the army is the only one to guarantee your school and today with the shortage they are giving enlistment bonuses up to $10K depending on the field.

Bowser
10-08-2005, 11:18 AM
What do you mean?

The TI's love to find shit like that. It turns into open season on the poor sap who brings stuff like that to basic.

Hammock Parties
10-08-2005, 11:19 AM
The TI's love to find shit like that. It turns into open season on the poor sap who brings stuff like that to basic.

Ah. Well I think it's safe to say I won't be bringing any condoms.

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 11:23 AM
Wrong. Here are a FEW things that NON pilots/air crews do in the AF. Build/maintain the "bases/camps" that in theater (contrary to popular belief - we do "allow" Army and Marines in). Builds/repairs runways. Fire Protection. EOD. Provide the food/bx or px among other services. Provides the fuel for vehicles (any aircraft), maintenance for vehicles. Communications are there for obvious reasons. Medical .... obvious. Security Forces... obvious. EVERYONE can get pulled for security details/convoy duty.

With all of these people - of course, we have to have a few chaplains around. :clap:

I will admit that there are dangerous jobs in the AF, the percentage of enlisted in harms way does not match that of the other services. Not to disrespect what they all do, each have their place in our defense.

Skip Towne
10-08-2005, 11:48 AM
The army sends the grunts out to get killed while the Air Force sends the officers (pilots). I like that concept.

joesomebody
10-08-2005, 12:24 PM
I will admit that there are dangerous jobs in the AF, the percentage of enlisted in harms way does not match that of the other services. Not to disrespect what they all do, each have their place in our defense.I'd say the percentage of enlisted AF in harms way outnumbers the navy any day... how many of our ships are honestly in harms way... when was the last time we fought a war with a country that had a navy...

If you use the Seabees as an example, you need to look at the Air Force civil engineering mission, tac ps, para jumpers, combat weather crews etc...

Granted the Air Force isn't as dangerous as the Marines and Army for the most part, anyone with a Navy avitar doesn't have much room to speak...

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 01:01 PM
I'd say the percentage of enlisted AF in harms way outnumbers the navy any day... how many of our ships are honestly in harms way... when was the last time we fought a war with a country that had a navy...

If you use the Seabees as an example, you need to look at the Air Force civil engineering mission, tac ps, para jumpers, combat weather crews etc...

Granted the Air Force isn't as dangerous as the Marines and Army for the most part, anyone with a Navy avitar doesn't have much room to speak...

Each of us will have their own opinion.

Ever serve on an Aircraft Carrier?

Ever take a ship into the Gulf of Sidra?

Do you remember the USS Cole?

In recent days there might not be as much danger as before, but each day at sea for anyone is dangerous.

joesomebody
10-08-2005, 01:21 PM
Each of us will have their own opinion.

Ever serve on an Aircraft Carrier?

Ever take a ship into the Gulf of Sidra?

Do you remember the USS Cole?

In recent days there might not be as much danger as before, but each day at sea for anyone is dangerous.Agreed... that was my point though... the current mission of the Air Force is far more dangerous than it has been in the past... we even drive convoys for the Army now...

No offense meant, I simply meant that its hard to say that the Air Force is not in Harms way. I just wanted to put it in perspective. I know for a fact the Navy air crews on a carrier are some of the bravest men and women in our armed forces, as every day in peace and war time their mission is one of the most risky and dangerous. I simply wanted to point out that there are ways of looking at things that are slightly skewed depending on how you view them.

And yes I remember the USS Cole, do you remember Khobar Towers?

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 02:09 PM
Agreed... that was my point though... the current mission of the Air Force is far more dangerous than it has been in the past... we even drive convoys for the Army now...

No offense meant, I simply meant that its hard to say that the Air Force is not in Harms way. I just wanted to put it in perspective. I know for a fact the Navy air crews on a carrier are some of the bravest men and women in our armed forces, as every day in peace and war time their mission is one of the most risky and dangerous. I simply wanted to point out that there are ways of looking at things that are slightly skewed depending on how you view them.

And yes I remember the USS Cole, do you remember Cobal Towers?

Yes I do.

I just had an offline with another AF member and went over some of the same things.

What we discussed was each service member of each service thinks their branch is the best, that in itself makes them all the best in the world.

I do believe what was brought up, all of our points are from a very skewed viewpoint.

Thanks for doing your part in preserving my freedom.

DeepPurple
10-08-2005, 03:12 PM
I posted on page 4 about my experience in the army as an air traffic controller and how it lead to a civilian job with the FAA. What I failed to mention is, if you enlist for air traffic controller or any type of flight crew job you'll need to pass a flight physical.

There are three classes of flight physicals, 1, 2, and 3, they are similiar except the main difference is the time between physicals. 6 months, 12 months and 24 months. For air traffic controller it requires a class 2, which is every 12 months. I mention this because my recruiter sent me to McDill AFB in Tampa while I was still a civilian to take a flight physical. You would be surprised how many recruiters do not bother, and then the enlistee goes through basic training and doesn't find out he can't be a controller, helicopter pilot or flight crew until he arrives at school and receives their first physical. If you fail the physical you must choose another school or you can get out on what's called an "erroneous elistment discharge".

If your interested in flying, the army is the only branch that doesn't require commissioned officers or a college degree. Most helicopter pilots in the army are a warrant officer, it's a non-troop command rank equal to an officer in privileges. You enter what's called the Warrant Flight Training Program, you'll need a good score on your army aptitude test, controller and pilot were the same and of course you'll need to pass a flight physical. The training was 36 weeks in which you had to solo in 16 hours, roughly four weeks into the program, or you are washed out. We had a few washed out helicopter pilots in our air traffic control class since they had already passed a flight physical and had the aptitude, the army would just bump you down.

RedDread
10-08-2005, 03:27 PM
I will tell you this, the Air Force had more troops on the ground where I was stationed at than either the Marines or Navy. Now overall I know that it was Army > Marines > Air Force > Navy in that order.

If you get a MOS that's something like a vehicle operator or fueler or something that can be used in Iraq/Afghanistan, you will probably spend a little time over there (No idea how long the AF tours were).

My 2 cents.

Also...

Whoever mentioned the USS cole bombing needs to take a look at the number of AF and Navy service members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan before they point that out. A service member performing their usual job for the Navy on a ship is probably a bunch less likely to die than those who are assigned to OIF/OEF bases. It really isn't as big a concern honestly.

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 03:33 PM
I will tell you this, the Air Force had more troops on the ground where I was stationed at than either the Marines or Navy. Now overall I know that it was Army > Marines > Air Force > Navy in that order.

If you get a MOS that's something like a vehicle operator or fueler or something that can be used in Iraq/Afghanistan, you will probably spend a little time over there (No idea how long the AF tours were).

My 2 cents.

Also...

Whoever mentioned the USS cole bombing needs to take a look at the number of AF and Navy service members killed in Iraq and Afghanistan before they point that out. A service member performing their usual job for the Navy on a ship is probably a bunch less likely to die than those who are assigned to OIF/OEF bases. It really isn't as big a concern honestly.

Your comparison with OIF/OEF and the Cole is an apples and oranges circumstance.

I have admitted that there are sacrifices made by all. This isn't the Army/Navy/Air Force/Marines war, we are all on the same side.

It was insensitive of me to claim the AF was the safest service. If you were offended, I am sorry.

RedDread
10-08-2005, 03:34 PM
It was insensitive of me to claim the AF was the safest service. If you were offended, I am sorry.

Hah, don't apologize to me. I'm Army.

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 03:37 PM
Hah, don't apologize to me. I'm Army.

Actually the point I'm trying to make is that all of our services fall into the category of the best in the world.

(I can usually do without the Army, I grew up near Ft. Leavenworth)

RedDread
10-08-2005, 03:46 PM
While they are all the best at what they do, there will always be strife at every level between the branches of service. I don't think that will ever change.

There's just too much ego for it to be any other way.

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 03:47 PM
While they are all the best at what they do, there will always be strife at every level between the branches of service. I don't think that will ever change.

There's just too much ego for it to be any other way.

A little bit of ego isn't all bad.

BigMeatballDave
10-08-2005, 04:48 PM
I once worked with a lesbian who told me the AF basic training is much like a vacation...

Lipschitz
10-08-2005, 04:53 PM
I once worked with a lesbian who told me the AF basic training is much like a vacation...

Does that make you a lesbian too?

BigMeatballDave
10-08-2005, 05:03 PM
Does that make you a lesbian too?Yup, and trapped in a mans body...