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Mr. Rat Fink
10-13-2005, 09:56 PM
The Top 10 Bad Ass Mofos in Sports History

http://www.bullz-eye.com/sports/features/2005/bad_ass_mofos.htm

KCJake
10-13-2005, 10:07 PM
Thanks for the link, but that list sucks. I would like to hear what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is.

Larry Bird. Are you kidding me :rolleyes:
Mike Tyson doesn't even make the list?

Mr. Rat Fink
10-13-2005, 10:17 PM
Thanks for the link, but that list sucks. I would like to hear what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is.

Larry Bird. Are you kidding me :rolleyes:
Mike Tyson doesn't even make the list?

I agree, I'm not sure about Larry Bird being up there at #2. You don't have to agree with the list...I posted it intending to create some discussion...

And this is what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is:

"Guys with big mouths who backed it up. Guys you probably hate when they're playing your team, but you'd kill to have on your team. Guys who told you they were gonna beat your ass, did it, ripped your heart out afterward, and ate it before your eyes as you died right in front of them."

tk13
10-13-2005, 10:27 PM
I agree, I'm not sure about Larry Bird being up there at #2. You don't have to agree with the list...I posted it intending to create some discussion...

And this is what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is:

"Guys with big mouths who backed it up. Guys you probably hate when they're playing your team, but you'd kill to have on your team. Guys who told you they were gonna beat your ass, did it, ripped your heart out afterward, and ate it before your eyes as you died right in front of them."
By that definition, Bird should definitely be #2, if not #1. He had a huge mouth, and he backed it up. You could come up with a zillion things he did in his career to back that definition up. Ali is the only guy I'd put at his level...

Lurch
10-13-2005, 10:28 PM
I should have made this list.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 10:39 PM
http://www.bullz-eye.com/sports/features/2005/images/mofos/lawrence_taylor.jpg

The best linebacker ever? Debatable. A Bad Ass Mofo? Without question.

ROFL

Claynus
10-13-2005, 10:40 PM
In our current era of batters intimidating pitchers, Gibson makes you wonder about the pitchers mound, "Where have all the Bad Ass Mofos gone?"

:LOL:

Claynus
10-13-2005, 10:47 PM
Present Chiefs bad-asses:

http://nflfreaks.com/images/Players/NFLF-Trent_Green_110903.jpg

http://www.onlinesports.com/images/phf-aagn002.jpg

http://www.georgeblowfish.com/shields.jpg

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20050109/KC_richardson_49215.jpg

http://www.mpslakers.com/Photos/Eric%20Hicks.jpg

http://www.nfl.com/u/nfl/photos/nfl1c8e_lower.jpg

Past Chiefs bad-asses:

http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos9/DeBerg,Steve2.jpg

http://cjonline.com/images/112000/chief.main2.jpg

http://www.georgeblowfish.com/dt.jpg

Claynus
10-13-2005, 10:53 PM
He had a particular taste for Cleveland Browns QB Brian Sipe, who Lambert hit so hard, so late, so many times, Pete Rozelle had to call him in for a meeting.

Yikes.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 10:56 PM
All while looking like the most awkward guy on the court…to be that un-athletic, and still be that Bad Ass, is a special kind of Mofo.

ROFL

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:02 PM
I have to disagree with this.

Nolan Ryan
He comes close solely because, at the age of 46, he put Robin Ventura in a headlock and proceeded to beat the snot out of him when Ventura, 20 years younger than Ryan, dared to charge the mound in 1993. But the guy is just too nice. Too many pharmaceutical commercials after the fact.

Nope, sorry. Nolan Ryan should definitely be on the list. Just look at this photo.

http://images.sportsnetwork.com/misc/prizes/steiner/ryan_nolan_blood_photo2.jpg

Bad-Ass Mofo.

Mr. Rat Fink
10-13-2005, 11:06 PM
[QUOTE=gochiefs][/IMG]
Past Chiefs bad-asses:
http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos9/DeBerg,Steve2.jpg
QUOTE]

Steve DeBerg had one good year. I wouldn't call him a bad ass.

tk13
10-13-2005, 11:08 PM
I'll give you three good Bird stories.

1.) Regular season game vs. the Seattle Sonics. Close game, comes down to the end... just a few seconds left. As anyone who follows basketball knows, Bird is one of the greatest, if not the best, clutch shooter ever. Xavier McDaniel, Seattle's star player, comes out to guard him. Bird tells him straight up, "I'm going to get the ball right here", points to a spot about 15-18 feet away near the FT line, and tells Xavier he's going to make the shot. They fight for position, they inbound it, Bird gets the ball, right near the spot, Xavier in his face, turns, shoots, drains it. Celtics win.

2.) In 1985, Kevin McHale had the game of his life. Caught fire, hit everything. In the 4th quarter, he had 56 points, a Boston Celtics record. Which obviously is quite an accomplishment with their history. Bird tells McHale he should go for 60. McHale, being the good sport and nice guy, still passes on the opportunity. Nine days later, Larry Bird drops 60 points on the Atlanta Hawks. Maybe the best shooting performance of his career, he was hitting so many shots that the Hawks players on the bench were actually laughing and high fiving each other. After the game he is quoted as saying. "It's Kevin's own fault," Bird says. "He should have gone for 60 that day, and I told him that."

3.) 1988 All-Star Three point competition. Final round, Bird goes around the arc, he gets to the last rack, and he must make his last three shots to win the competition. He hits the first shot, makes the 2nd. Puts the final ball up in the air. After the ball leaves his hand, Bird walks toward midcourt holding up one finger with the ball still in the air.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1998/bird/timeline/images/02-06-88.jpg

And he drained it. That is balls.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:09 PM
[QUOTE=gochiefs][/IMG]
Past Chiefs bad-asses:
http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos9/DeBerg,Steve2.jpg
QUOTE]

Steve DeBerg had one good year. I wouldn't call him a bad ass.

He's a bad-ass simply for the fact that he played a season with a broken finger.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:10 PM
After the ball leaves his hand, Bird walks toward midcourt holding up one finger with the ball still in the air.

Oh my god. That is awesome.

Mr. Rat Fink
10-13-2005, 11:16 PM
He's a bad-ass simply for the fact that he played a season with a broken finger.

Playing with a hurt pinky is SO bad ass.

tk13
10-13-2005, 11:17 PM
Hey, that was a better picture of it, where'd it go?

That is one my favorite sports moments though, cracks me up every time I see it. In front of a packed arena and a nationwide audience back when the NBA was actually really popular... there aren't very many people with the balls to do that.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:20 PM
Playing with a hurt pinky is SO bad ass.

BROKEN.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:21 PM
Hey, that was a better picture of it, where'd it go?

That is one my favorite sports moments though, cracks me up every time I see it. In front of a packed arena and a nationwide audience back when the NBA was actually really popular... there aren't very many people with the balls to do that.

The photo is erroneous. It's not the moment you are describing.

tk13
10-13-2005, 11:23 PM
No I'm pretty sure that was it...

greg63
10-13-2005, 11:23 PM
... I would like to hear what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is.

Larry Bird. Are you kidding me :rolleyes:
Mike Tyson doesn't even make the list?

I agree, I'm not sure about Larry Bird being up there at #2. You don't have to agree with the list...I posted it intending to create some discussion...

And this is what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is:

"Guys with big mouths who backed it up. Guys you probably hate when they're playing your team, but you'd kill to have on your team. Guys who told you they were gonna beat your ass, did it, ripped your heart out afterward, and ate it before your eyes as you died right in front of them."

...Then Tyson definitely should have made the list. Hagler's lucky Tyson only went after his ears. :D

greg63
10-13-2005, 11:26 PM
Mike Tyson
Bite off a guy’s ear? That’s just freaky. Besides, Ali in his prime would have simply destroyed the guy, would have been flappin’ his lips the whole time, probably throwing in poetry that would’ve confused Tyson.

He did make "honorable" mention though.

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:33 PM
No I'm pretty sure that was it...

It can't be. Bird is running onto the court.

tk13
10-13-2005, 11:45 PM
It can't be. Bird is running onto the court.
Not the picture I saw. That was the right picture. The final rack is in the bottom left corner... he put the last ball up from the corner and walked toward center court. He looks like he's running onto the floor, but he's just walking toward center court...

Claynus
10-13-2005, 11:49 PM
Not the picture I saw. That was the right picture. The final rack is in the bottom left corner... he put the last ball up from the corner and walked toward center court. He looks like he's running onto the floor, but he's just walking toward center court...

My bad. In my mind's eye I saw him making the shot from the top of the key and turning around.

http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/75/02-06-88large-1-.jpg/250px-02-06-88large-1-.jpg

Mr. Rat Fink
10-13-2005, 11:50 PM
This is the pic of the 3-point contest.

http://home.no.net/sbbk1/Bilder/Larry%20Bird%20Shootout%20Contest_0001.jpg

You got it up there, nevermind.

tk13
10-13-2005, 11:54 PM
Awesome, both pictures. I tried to find that last one from the actual TV footage but I couldn't. I find it hard not to just laugh every time I see that clip.

Mr. Rat Fink
10-13-2005, 11:57 PM
Bad Ass Bird

http://www.sportspickle.com/features/volume3/2004-0616-bird.jpg

alanm
10-14-2005, 12:11 AM
This is from a old Mike Royko collumn. Royko, Who I really miss used to write for the Chicago Sun Times.

He Was Called 'Quick Death'
October 3, 1975

Many sports experts are now declaring Muhammad Ali is the greatest heavyweight fighter "of all time" Ali, of course, says so himself.
That's ridiculous. Ali may or may not be the best heavyweight fighter of our time, but he is not the best to ever live.
That distinction belongs to the late Brza(Quick Death) Smrt, the magnificent Bulgarian boxer who has never received the recognition he deserves. To those who are familiar with Brza Smrt(pronounced Berzha Shmert), the idea of Ali beating him is laughable. Ali wouldn't have lasted more than a few seconds. Smrt's record, which I'll go into in a moment, has never been appreciated because he fought before TV and other mass communications made athletes world figures. (Incidentally, Brza Smrt was called "Quick Death" because that is what the words "brza smrt" mean. It was his real name. Ask any Bulgarian.
His career spanned the years between 1234 and 1250. Because of poor record keeping in Bulgaria, his accomplishments later drifted into obscurity. But thanks to an international group of sports minded scientists and scholars, his brilliant career has recently been reconstructed. In fact, his skeleton has been reconstructed. That's why we know today what a superhuman physical specimen he was.
It was through a remarkable bit of luck that his remains..the location of which had not been known.. were discovered a few years ago. A Bulgarian farmer was harvesting cauliflower, but when he found something that looked like a cauliflower, but didn't feel like it. It turned out to be the skeleton of Smrt's ear. This led to excavation and discovery of his tombstone and the rest of him. Smrt had a remarkable physique. He was almost seven feet tall and his arms hung down to his knees. His reach was extraordinary. And because he was born without fingers, his huge hands were natural clubs. Scientists say his knees were quadruple-jointed. He could bend them as easily backwards and sideways as the normal way. With his flexibility, he could run as quickly sideways or backwards as he did forward. This made him easily the most mobile boxer in history. They estimate that he weighed 350 pounds or more-- all rocklike muscle--and had tendons in his arms and wrists as thick as those found in the legs of a large elk. So much for the dry scientific data. It was the way he used his physical gifts that made him so fine an athlete. Smrt had a simple but effective style. He would glide forward then sideways in a circle at tremendous speed, literally surrounding his opponent. He would throw one punch. And the results were always the same. His opponent went down. Not only out, but dead. Thats's one of the reasons Smrts career got off to a fast start. then lagged. Nobody wanted to fight him. In fact, his first 3 fights ended before they began because he killed his opponents during the weigh-in ceremonies. Authorities banned Smrt from fighting because they feared he might decimate Bulgaria's male population and make it vulnerable to attack by the Turks. despite his assurances that he would kill all the Turks himself. His fans were furious because he was a popular figure. In one way he was like Ali, who recites poetry. Smrt didn't recite poems, but he sang. Not just before a fight, he would sing loudly all during the fight. And despite his size he had a amazingly high voice. He sounded exactly like an operatic soprano. This was disconcerting to his opponents, but pleased the fans. Even those who didn't enjoy boxing came out just to hear him warble an aria while he punched someone. The ban was finally lifted when the rules were changed to permit his opponents to wear thick metal helmets that covered the entire face and head.
This made the matches even more popular because the helmets made a loud gong sound and when Smrt really got going, it sounded like a carillon concert. With his soprano voice ringing out at the same time, it was spectacular. However these fights also were banned when it was discovered the helmets, while saving the lives of the opponents, made them deaf because of the noise. Authorities worried that nobody would hear the Turks sneaking up on Bulgaria.
That's when Smrt's career entered its most interesting phase. And when we find another parallel between Smrt and Ali. As we know, Ali taunted Joe Frazier by saying "He is a gorilla."
That's exactly what Smrt said about his next opponent. Except it really was a gorilla. And Smrt knocked it out with one blow to the chest. He later fought several bisons, a few hippos, and finally an enormous rhino, winning all by knockouts. The rhino fight was his last. He quit because the rhino, when it finally came to, was permanently cross-eyed. Smrt who was basically a softhearted man, said the sight of the rhino's eyes, looking at each other, haunted his conscience and he vowed never to fight again.
I'm sure that Ali's sdmirers will stubbornly insist we can't be sure Brza Smrt would have beaten Ali. since they never fought. But it can be proved through scientific means. Tests have shown that a punch with sufficient force to knock a rhino cross-eyed would not only KO Ali, but would actually separate hsi head from his body and propel it almost thirty-eight feet into the third or fourth row of seats, and this would not only kill Ali, but might even silence him. Even Howard Cosell might not have the words to adequately describe such a dramitic moment in sports.
So when we talk about the greatest fighter of "all time," I will take Brza (Quick Death) Smrt.
On the other hand, Sven the beast, a Norwegian who could crack icebergs with one punch, was great back in the early four hundreds. And before him, there was Oooga the Rock Eater, the baddest man in the caves.
After all,"all time" is a long time. :)

wkchief
10-14-2005, 01:08 AM
I would have to say the most bad ass basketball player would be Bill Lambier.

Extra Point
10-14-2005, 05:00 AM
Bill Russell: Ultimate Basketball Badass. 11 Championship Rings. Played in the NCAA final four, won Olympic Gold and helped his team win their first NBA championiship in a 13 month span. First black coach in the NBA.

http://espn.go.com/classic/biography/s/Russell_Bill.html

Amnorix
10-14-2005, 05:58 AM
I'll give you three good Bird stories.

1.) Regular season game vs. the Seattle Sonics. Close game, comes down to the end... just a few seconds left. As anyone who follows basketball knows, Bird is one of the greatest, if not the best, clutch shooter ever. Xavier McDaniel, Seattle's star player, comes out to guard him. Bird tells him straight up, "I'm going to get the ball right here", points to a spot about 15-18 feet away near the FT line, and tells Xavier he's going to make the shot. They fight for position, they inbound it, Bird gets the ball, right near the spot, Xavier in his face, turns, shoots, drains it. Celtics win.

Never heard this one. Cool.

2.) In 1985, Kevin McHale had the game of his life. Caught fire, hit everything. In the 4th quarter, he had 56 points, a Boston Celtics record. Which obviously is quite an accomplishment with their history. Bird tells McHale he should go for 60. McHale, being the good sport and nice guy, still passes on the opportunity. Nine days later, Larry Bird drops 60 points on the Atlanta Hawks. Maybe the best shooting performance of his career, he was hitting so many shots that the Hawks players on the bench were actually laughing and high fiving each other. After the game he is quoted as saying. "It's Kevin's own fault," Bird says. "He should have gone for 60 that day, and I told him that."

For the record -- Bird fed McHale alot of balls that day, and the entire team was enjoying being part of McHale's night.

But yes, Bird did have to prove he could do just as well. That game was one of the funniest/strangest I ever saw. The entire Atlanta bench was completely laughing it's ass off every time Bird hit another shot during the 4th quarter of that game. Bird could not miss that night, and even the opponents were enjoying it. :eek:

3.) 1988 All-Star Three point competition. Final round, Bird goes around the arc, he gets to the last rack, and he must make his last three shots to win the competition. He hits the first shot, makes the 2nd. Puts the final ball up in the air. After the ball leaves his hand, Bird walks toward midcourt holding up one finger with the ball still in the air.

I can't remember that he needed to hit the last 3, but I do remember him walking away with his index finger up in the air, while the ball was still on its way to the swish.

Addendum to that story -- before the first three point competition (not sure if it was in '88), he told all the participants beforehand "so, which one of you guys is gonna be second?" And then, of course, he goes out and wins the competition.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1998/bird/timeline/images/02-06-88.jpg

And he drained it. That is balls.[/QUOTE]

Amnorix
10-14-2005, 05:59 AM
My bad. In my mind's eye I saw him making the shot from the top of the key and turning around.

http://www.nationmaster.com/wikimir/images/upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/75/02-06-88large-1-.jpg/250px-02-06-88large-1-.jpg


No. There were five racks, starting in the right corner (if you're looking at the net) and working your way around to the left corner. The final shot was drained from the left corner.

siberian khatru
10-14-2005, 06:00 AM
The first guy that came to mind was Jim Brown. I don't agree with this guy's criteria and judging. "Bad-ass Mofo" should mean exactly that, and there wasn't a badder mother(shut-yo-mouf/just talkin' 'bout Jim) than Brown.

And I ain't talking about that Fox Sports dude. Only the Nazis and Arnold Schwarzenegger could stop Jim Brown.

Amnorix
10-14-2005, 06:00 AM
I would have to say the most bad ass basketball player would be Bill Lambier.


Was that before or after Robert Parish beat his ass into the court?


CHIEF

Phobia
10-14-2005, 06:22 AM
3.) 1988 All-Star Three point competition. Final round, Bird goes around the arc, he gets to the last rack, and he must make his last three shots to win the competition. He hits the first shot, makes the 2nd. Puts the final ball up in the air. After the ball leaves his hand, Bird walks toward midcourt holding up one finger with the ball still in the air.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1998/bird/timeline/images/02-06-88.jpg

And he drained it. That is balls.

That's a nice story, but anybody who has ever played any amount of roundball knows if a ball is drained the moment it leaves their fingers. I had that sense with what little bit I used to play and I can only imagine how much more heightened it is with professionals. I'm not trying to take anything away from Bird, I'm just not impressed with the whole claiming victory part before the ball cleared the net.

Claynus
10-14-2005, 07:55 AM
Do you leave construction sites with one finger held high after hammering in the last nail?

Brock
10-14-2005, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the link, but that list sucks. I would like to hear what their definition of a "Bad Ass Mofo" is.

Larry Bird. Are you kidding me :rolleyes:
Mike Tyson doesn't even make the list?

Why would Tyson make the list? The only people he ever beat up were women and Marvis Frazier.

Bwana
10-14-2005, 08:18 AM
What's this!! Bar brawl Tynes didn't make the list??

DanT
10-14-2005, 11:37 AM
The main thing I remember about Jack Lambert's style of play was the late-hit, usually accomplished by jumping onto a pile of players like a little girl jumping on a pile of fallen leaves. He's about as Bad-ass as a tattooed My Little Pony.

gblowfish
10-14-2005, 11:52 AM
Some of the list I agree with, others no. My definition of a "bad ass" is very subjective. To me, the guy either had to have a reputation for being physically tough, mean spirited, intimidate his opponent, play hurt, be an iron man, or all of the above. Here's some who come to mind in no particular order:

Football Bad Asses:
Ray Nitschke
Mike Curtis
Larry Wilson
Dick Butkus
Jack Lambert
Ronnie Lott
Jack Youngblood
Willie Lanier
Larry Csonka
Deacon Jones
Chuck Bednarik

Baseball Bad Asses:
Ty Cobb
Bob Gibson
Nolan Ryan
Roger Clemens
Frank Robinson
Jack Morris
Don Drysdale
Lou Pinella
Pete Rose
Kirk Gibson
Cal Ripken, Jr.

Basketball Bad Asses:
Willis Reed
Michael Jordan
Jerry West
John Havlicek
Kermit Washington
Bob Lanier
Bill Laimbeer
Bill Russell
Tiny Archibald
Larry Bird

Rausch
10-14-2005, 12:02 PM
[QUOTE=gochiefs][/IMG]
Past Chiefs bad-asses:
http://www.sportsattic.com/nflphoto/photos9/DeBerg,Steve2.jpg
QUOTE]

Steve DeBerg had one good year. I wouldn't call him a bad ass.


I wouldn't call a baseball or basketball player a bad ass either.

Nix the Bird, add George Foreman. Forget the George in his 50's, when he was in his 20's he was the hardest hitting boxer ever. He destroyed everyone he fought....

...well, almost everyone. :)

acasas4
10-14-2005, 12:10 PM
...Then Tyson definitely should have made the list. Hagler's lucky Tyson only went after his ears. :D
If I remember right that was Evander Holyfield's ear Tyson chewed off. And the only reason he did that is because Holyfield was beating his ass. Tyson was a badassmofo early in his career but turned out to be a freakshowmofo. :)

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 12:30 PM
Why would Tyson make the list? The only people he ever beat up were women and Marvis Frazier.
Exactly right. Tyson belongs nowhere near this list. Get a copy of the "Thrilla in Manila" and then tell me Tyson could have whipped Frazier. Let alone Ali.

vailpass
10-14-2005, 12:39 PM
...Addendum to that story -- before the first three point competition (not sure if it was in '88), he told all the participants beforehand "so, which one of you guys is gonna be second?" And then, of course, he goes out and wins the competition.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1998/bird/timeline/images/02-06-88.jpg

And he drained it. That is balls.[/QUOTE]

Before MJ Larry Legend was the greatest pure BB player of all time; IMHO he and MJ are tied as the greatest ever.
There are a thousand stories like the ones related here, of Larry telling people where he ws going to be and what shot he was going to hit. Of how he would eat rookies alive with his vicious smack. Of how he would get embarrassed/pissed when guarded by a white guy.
There are several Bird books out there, IMO one of the best is
Portrait of a Competitor by Roland Lazenby
Great read whether you love him, hate him, or don't know who he is.

SLAG
10-14-2005, 12:46 PM
Here is a True Bad mamma Jamma
http://www.kcstar.com/photogallery/photos/dthomas/derrick4.jpg

acasas4
10-14-2005, 02:17 PM
Here is a True Bad mamma Jamma
http://www.kcstar.com/photogallery/photos/dthomas/derrick4.jpg
Amen

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 02:27 PM
The main thing I remember about Jack Lambert's style of play was the late-hit, usually accomplished by jumping onto a pile of players like a little girl jumping on a pile of fallen leaves. He's about as Bad-ass as a tattooed My Little Pony.
Lambert WAS a badass. There was a widely circulated rumor during the Seelers glory years that Lambert kicked Joe Greene's ass in the locker room. And Lambert weighed 220 #.

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 02:32 PM
I wouldn't call a baseball or basketball player a bad ass either.

Nix the Bird, add George Foreman. Forget the George in his 50's, when he was in his 20's he was the hardest hitting boxer ever. He destroyed everyone he fought....

...well, almost everyone. :)
Yep, Foreman is another one that would have destroyed Tyson.

DanT
10-14-2005, 02:45 PM
Lambert WAS a badass. There was a widely circulated rumor during the Seelers glory years that Lambert kicked Joe Greene's ass in the locker room. And Lambert weighed 220 #.

There is widely-circulated film of Dick Butkus actually tackling ball-carriers by himself before the whistle is blown.

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 02:51 PM
There is widely-circulated film of Dick Butkus actually tackling ball-carriers by himself before the whistle is blown.
Say what you will about Lambert, everybody in the league was convinced he was bad. There is a good reason why he was the MLB on one of the best D's of all time. I've never heard of anyone accusing Lambert of late hits or any kind of dirty football and I watched the whole thing.

DanT
10-14-2005, 03:12 PM
Say what you will about Lambert, everybody in the league was convinced he was bad. There is a good reason why he was the MLB on one of the best D's of all time. I've never heard of anyone accusing Lambert of late hits or any kind of dirty football and I watched the whole thing.

He was accused in the very article at the top of this thread:


...He had a particular taste for Cleveland Browns QB Brian Sipe, who Lambert hit so hard, so late, so many times, Pete Rozelle had to call him in for a meeting. "Brian has a chance to go out of bounds and he decides not to," Lambert said later. "He knows I'm going to hit him. And I do. History."


I'm just going by my own memory of him as a kid. I remember him jumping on a lot of piles; I do not remember any impressive solo hits he made.

DanT
10-14-2005, 03:45 PM
Here's a link to a good article on Jack Lambert that was written by Paul Zimmerman for the Sporting News in 1984. The article is on a site dedicated to Jack Lambert and should be of interest to his fans.

Based on what the article says, I can see why he was so widely hailed for his greatness as a linebacker. A lot of what he was assigned to do probably didn't come across to a kid like me watching him on TV. Like I said, I never saw him make a hit that impressed me, but that may speak more to the fact that I was just a kid. And so maybe I didn't see the things that made the announcers gush so much about his overall play.

http://www.mcmillenandwife.com/lambert_man_of_steel.html

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 03:50 PM
Here's a link to a good article on Jack Lambert that was written by Paul Zimmerman for the Sporting News in 1984. The article is on a site dedicated to Jack Lambert and should be of interest to his fans.

Based on what the article says, I can see why he was so widely hailed for his greatness as a linebacker. A lot of what he was assigned to do probably didn't come across to a kid like me watching him on TV. Like I said, I never saw him make a hit that impressed me, but that may speak more to the fact that I was just a kid. And so maybe I didn't see the things that made the announcers gush so much about his overall play.

http://www.mcmillenandwife.com/lambert_man_of_steel.html
I don't remember him standing out so much but look at all the great players he had around him. It would have been hard to do. But he did have the rest of the league intimidated. At least from what I read and heard. And at only 220# it was even more remarkable.

Extra Point
10-14-2005, 04:09 PM
The ultimate football badasses' names are around the ring of fame at Arrowhead!

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 04:37 PM
The ultimate football badasses' names are around the ring of fame at Arrowhead!
The closest thing the Chiefs have ever had to Jack Lambert is EJ Holub. They were remarkably similar in size and toughness. I met EJ one time and I was most impressed with was how tall he was and how broad shouldered. Yet he tapered down to a small waist. Just like Lambert.

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 04:53 PM
He was accused in the very article at the top of this thread:



I'm just going by my own memory of him as a kid. I remember him jumping on a lot of piles; I do not remember any impressive solo hits he made.
Thanks, Dan , for that article. I read all of it and it very much jibes wih my memory. The Sipe thing is puzzling as Sipe was an also ran that never gave the Steelers any trouble that I remember. And it looks like there were 3 late hits over a four year period with Ben Dreith calling two of them. As to the painting that Rooney showed Lambert, I know exactly what it must have depicted that Rooney feared would enrage Lambert. Lambert would stare across the line at the QB, snarling and drooling. Yeah, really drooling. They said he looked like he was insane. Lambert was the real deal and was the leader of the "Steel Curtain".

Sparhawk
10-14-2005, 05:08 PM
What about Jack Dempsey? He would have killed Ali if the two somehow could have made in the ring together!

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 05:47 PM
What about Jack Dempsey? He would have killed Ali if the two somehow could have made in the ring together!
We could argue that forever but concensus that I have seen says the two best heavyweights ever were Ali and Joe Louis. And , for my money, I'll take Ali because of his speed and quickness. He could do things middleweights couldn't do. And Ali fought one of the toughest fighters ever in Frazier and even managed to wear him out in Manila. No, I don't think Louis or Dempsey could contend with Ali's speed and quickness not to mention his stamina and durability. Ali even finished one fight with a broken jaw. I just can't see those old timers hanging with him. Foreman had the best chance with his punching power but he couldn't do it. In his prime, nobody could beat Ali.

tk13
10-14-2005, 05:51 PM
That's a nice story, but anybody who has ever played any amount of roundball knows if a ball is drained the moment it leaves their fingers. I had that sense with what little bit I used to play and I can only imagine how much more heightened it is with professionals. I'm not trying to take anything away from Bird, I'm just not impressed with the whole claiming victory part before the ball cleared the net.
Ehh... I can usually tell when I miss, when I hit a shot is a lot more hit/miss. Sometimes it feels good leaving your hand and still doesn't go in. Maybe we need to hit the playground and see just how many shots we can predict accurately....

Demonpenz
10-14-2005, 05:54 PM
No love for kevin stevens from the Devils?

DanT
10-14-2005, 06:01 PM
Thanks, Dan , for that article. I read all of it and it very much jibes wih my memory. The Sipe thing is puzzling as Sipe was an also ran that never gave the Steelers any trouble that I remember. And it looks like there were 3 late hits over a four year period with Ben Dreith calling two of them. As to the painting that Rooney showed Lambert, I know exactly what it must have depicted that Rooney feared would enrage Lambert. Lambert would stare across the line at the QB, snarling and drooling. Yeah, really drooling. They said he looked like he was insane. Lambert was the real deal and was the leader of the "Steel Curtain".

You're welcome. It would be fun to watch some of the old Steelers games now that I'm older and have a better idea of what's going on. I'd also like to see some of the Chiefs games from the 1960's and early 70's.

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 06:15 PM
You're welcome. It would be fun to watch some of the old Steelers games now that I'm older and have a better idea of what's going on. I'd also like to see some of the Chiefs games from the 1960's and early 70's.
Yeah, me too. I'd love to see some of the old games fom the 60's. I remember them as played at a slower pace without as much shifting and other strategy like nickle defenses we see today. It was more of a line up and run over them mentality. 17 points would win nearly any game. Both the '72 Dolphins and the great Steeler teams had one thing in common. Consistancy on offense. They were both grind it out ball control offenses. Both had a great WR, Miami's Warfield and Pittsburgh's Lynn Swan but neither made many big plays. They both would keep the ball for what seemed like hours and if you did manage to stop them they would three and out you and start over again. Both were truly complete teams.

alanm
10-14-2005, 08:20 PM
What about Jack Dempsey? He would have killed Ali if the two somehow could have made in the ring together!
Brza Smrt would have literally killed both of them. :thumb:

onescrewleftuntwisted
10-14-2005, 08:34 PM
i should have been on the list too.

ye tho i walk through the valley of the shadow of death,
i shall fear no evil, for i am the baddest mother f**ker in the valley

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 09:06 PM
Brza Smrt would have literally killed both of them. :thumb:
I got a kick out of that. Did you notice when Brza Smrt lived? The 1200's. That guy ws almost a caveman. I'm sure his strenghth was awesome but Ali could have hit him 15 times before he could drag his knuckles up out of the dirt to whiff on Ali. Hahahahaha

KCChiefsMan
10-14-2005, 10:12 PM
what about Isiah Thomas? Detroit Pistons, injured himself badly in a finals game and damn near single-handedly wins the game for them

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 10:15 PM
Is there an old time boxing fan on the board? I'd sure like to pick his brain. I never saw Joe Louis except in film clips and I wasn't that impressed. But I really don't know how good the guy was he was fighting. I think he fought Schmelling at least once but he was a white guy. The first Heavyweight champion I remember seeing on TV was Rocky Marciano. I think he retired undefeated. Hey, he was a white guy who barely weighed 200 lbs. And who did he fight? Eras make a hell of a difference. And then there was Floyd Patterson. As poor an excuse for a heavyweight champion as I've ever seen. Undersized and no particularly good skills. Ali nicknamed him "The Rabbit" and then pounded the shit out of him three times. Ali fought several top notch fighters during his career. Notably Frazier and Foreman. Either one of which would have killed Patterson and maybe Marciano as well. It's had to compare fighters from different eras. But back to Ali. When he first showed up, Sonny Liston was the baddest dude on the planet or so everybody thought. (Except Ali) Liston's problem, though, was that he was big, dumb and slow. Ali fought him twice and knocked him silly both times. Both fights lasted a total of 3 rounds. Makes me wonder just how good Joe Louis was. Ali could beat you several different ways. He could stay away from you and never let you hit him if he wanted to. He used to stick his jaw out toward his opponent and dare them to try to hit him. Or, when he faced a good fighter like Foreman who was probably the hardest puncher in history, he would lay on the ropes (rope-a-dope) and wait for you to punch yourself out. Then destroy you while you are spent. He hit Frazier enough times to kill an ordinary man in Manila. Go rent it. I have utmost respect for Frazier as possibly the 2nd best fighter ever. He gave Ali all he wanted when Ali was in his prime. If Frazier had come along in 1950, we may have never heard of Marciano or Patterson. Tyson came along at just the right time for him. He was a brawler with some quickness and a devastating left hook. But best of all, there was nothing out there but tomato cans that he could easily knock out early. But he got exposed when he ran up against someone who would put up a fight. Even Holyfield outclassed Tyson and knew all he had to do is make it last past the first few rounds and Tyson would fold. Which he did. Tyson wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds with Frazier. And he would have lasted as long as Ali's poem predicted he would. Hehe. Ali quit the poems after the first few fights. He said it put too much pressure on him to predict the round although he was usually right. I think the real reason he quit that was named Joe Frazier. As best I can tell, Louis and Dempsey were both one trick ponies. Pretty good fighters with not much competition. (I could be wrong on Louis as he has a lot of support from the old guys). Ali could adjust his style to fit the opponent. I've never seen any fighter that was able to do that let alone a heavyweight. Can you imagine Ali and Louis when things started badly for Ali? He could use his quickness, speed, durability, or evasiveness to change the fight several directions. If the reverse happened, what could Louis do ? Ali is the best I've ever seen in any weight class. I've ignored Larry Holmes. He was a very good fighter in an era of nobodies. He simply beat everybody they put in front of him with very little glory. He lasted a long time too. By no means do I consider myself any kind of authority on boxing. These are just my impressions over the years and I'm sure somebody with a record book could tear some of this apart. Well, except for Ali that is. He was simply the best fighter that ever lived.

KCJake
10-14-2005, 10:28 PM
During a 5-7 year period Mike Tyson was the Baddest of all bad ass Mofo's." Nobody, I mean nobody, wanted a piece of this guy. During that time period, if you were walking down a dark alley, who's the last guy you would want to run into? Who cares if Ali or Foreman "would have" or "could have" beaten him. That's not the point. That's not what this discussion is about. We are talking about the baddest mofo's of all time.

Mike Tyson
Ronnie Lott
Lawrence Taylor
Pete Rose
Ty Cobb
Dick Butkus
Ray Lewis
Derrick Thomas

These guys are bad mofo's. Not the best players or athletes of all time, just badass dudes.

Skip Towne
10-14-2005, 10:36 PM
During a 5-7 year period Mike Tyson was the Baddest of all bad ass Mofo's." Nobody, I mean nobody, wanted a piece of this guy. During that time period, if you were walking down a dark alley, who's the last guy you would want to run into? Who cares if Ali or Foreman "would have" or "could have" beaten him. That's not the point. That's not what this discussion is about. We are talking about the baddest mofo's of all time.

Mike Tyson
Ronnie Lott
Lawrence Taylor
Pete Rose
Ty Cobb
Dick Butkus
Ray Lewis
Derrick Thomas

These guys are bad mofo's. Not the best players or athletes of all time, just badass dudes.
Not so at all. Tyson did, in fact, get in a street fight with another pro boxer who kicked his ass. I don't remember his name but it was in all the papers. Tyson was a pussy who took out tomato cans and then only if he could put them away early. If the opponent put up a fight, Tyson would fold. See Buster Douglas. Douglas played basketball for Coffeyville Jr. College. How the hell did he ever get a fight with the champ. Simple. There was nobody else around.

stumppy
10-15-2005, 04:14 AM
Well, except for Ali that is. He was simply the best fighter that ever lived.

Although my memory doesn't go back as far as Skips'. Eh, I guess nobodys does.:D
I'd have to agree with him. When I think back to the times I watched him compared to any of the fighters that have come along since, it's apparent he was truly the greatest. The man was on a completely different level.

Skip Towne
10-15-2005, 07:11 AM
I had to come full circle on Ali. I absoltely hated him when he first showed up. Everybody did. It was his mouth. The press called him the "Louisville Lip" among other things. But then all his BS started coming true. He'd write goofy poems predicing the round he'd take a guy out. He actually had to carry one guy for a couple of rounds just so his prediction would come true. He was a true character with fabulous talent. I read somewhere that his face is the most recognized around the world. And now everybody loves him. Even Frazier.

Skip Towne
10-15-2005, 10:23 PM
Ali showed up in the early 60's with a unique style and the ability to change styles at will. In all other sports I've seen, youngsters try to emulate heroes like this. And they are often successful. So I expected Ali to influence younger boxers to fight like he did. It never happened. More than 40 years later, there hasn't been even one Ali disciple appear. I can't believe it's because nobody tried. No, it's because nobody else, in all that time, has the physical skills to do what Ali could do. Neither, can I find any evidence of anyone else being able to do it in the last 100 years. Can the same be said about ANY other fighter? Nope, Louis was a enough better than what we'd seen before that he was deemed great. But Ali took it to the next level like Louis couldn't have imagined. The fighters of that day were all similar in build and mentality. Rarely over 6' tall and around 200 lbs. with the ability to deliver heavy blows and absorb them. Louis was the best of them. But Ali brought another dimension to the table like noone had before. He could hit you as much as he wanted and you couldn't hit him at all if he didn't want you to. He toyed with all but the very best of the day. Just made complete fools of them by dropping his hands and sticking out his jaw daring them to try to hit him. And they still couldn't. Not even Frazier although he tried the hardest by charging Ali repeatedly. And he paid for it. Ali battered him unmercifully until Frazier just couldn't get off his stool for the final round. So if you have any doubts about just how great Ali was, go watch the Thrilla in Manila and the Foreman fights. Then go watch a film of Louis. Joe Louis was great for his day but Ali would have chopped him up into little pieces. As he would any other fighter over the past 100 years. And no clones have showed up in the last 40 years. The guy was simply one of a kind.

greg63
10-15-2005, 10:29 PM
... The guy was simply one of a kind.I agree, and it is sad to see him in the kind of physical shape he is in now. Too many blows to the head are what I've always heard - don't know if it’s true.

KCJake
10-16-2005, 12:28 AM
Not so at all. Tyson did, in fact, get in a street fight with another pro boxer who kicked his ass. I don't remember his name but it was in all the papers. Tyson was a pussy who took out tomato cans and then only if he could put them away early. If the opponent put up a fight.
WRONG. In 1988 Tyson fought Mitch ""Blood"" Green. The fight went the distance with Tyson winning the decision. 2 months later in New York, Mitch Green approached Tyson on a side-walk. Green talked some trash to Tyson. Something to the effect of, "i told you, you couldn't knock me out." A second later, Tyson dropped Green with a right hand. Green went to the hospital with a broken nose and a broken cheek bone.

I have to admit, im not old enough to have seen Ali or a prime George Foreman. Maybe they would beat Tyson in the ring. But neither one of them would have a chance in a street fight. No way in hell.

Skip Towne
10-20-2005, 09:30 PM
Anybody that wants to see Ali in his early years, go to The Deuce right now. he was still Cassius Clay at the time.