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luv
10-15-2005, 11:03 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Chiefs 27, Skins 24.

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:13 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Chiefs 27, Skins 24.

I'm not good with stats so I'll go along with that, based solely on my desire that they win. :D

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:18 PM
Roaf will not be the cure-all for our Offense. He will be rusty, but will still perform better than Black.

The return of even a rusty Roaf means that Green will have more time to throw, meaning Gonzalez can be utilized as a receiver instead of a blocker. Better pass blocking means that all the receivers will be better, which opens up the entire playbook for Saunders.

The return of even a rusty Roaf and moving Black to RT, means that the OL will be more secure, meaning there will be more holes for Holmes and Johnson [provided Diaper Boy can hold onto the ball for a change]. Waters and Shields will show why they are held in such high esteem.

The Offense will not be as good as we want, but it will be better than we have seen in the last couple of games. That will be the difference.

Since the Defense will not have to fight both The Enemy and the Chiefs Offense [“Oops, lost the ball again, guys…go out there and keep them from scoring from the 25-yard line, will you, please?”], the D will look much better, although they will fall far short of where we want them to be.

The pass rush will still be anemic and will require blitzing to put any pressure on the pencil-neck. As a result, The Enemy will rack up some “big plays,” the blame at ChiefsPlanet will fall entirely on McCleon, regardless of who actually had the responsibility on the play.

xoxo~
Gaz
Polishing that crystal ball.

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:20 PM
Gaz will no longer be in second place in the gambling thread.

xoxo~
Gaz
Way out on a limb on this one.

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:21 PM
My magic eight ball just said....

luv
10-15-2005, 11:22 PM
I will be very glad to see Roaf back. He may not be the cure-all, but he makes most of the aches and pains go away.

Deberg_1990
10-15-2005, 11:25 PM
Redskins 28

Chiefs 21

Prove me wrong Chiefs....

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:25 PM
I will be very glad to see Roaf back. He may not be the cure-all, but he makes most of the aches and pains go away.

Agreed.

But he is not the “magic bullet.”

Still, more time for Green to throw means more pass completions.

And Roaf back in harness means more Gonzalez out in a pattern instead of blocking.

Even if he is not 100%, he is an improvement over Black at LT.

xoxo~
Gaz
Willing to take a smaller dose of Willie.

luv
10-15-2005, 11:27 PM
Agreed.

But he is not the “magic bullet.”

Still, more time for Green to throw means more pass completions.

And Roaf back in harness means more Gonzalez out in a pattern instead of blocking.

Even if he is not 100%, he is an improvement over Black at LT.

xoxo~
Gaz
Willing to take a smaller dose of Willie.

What are your thoughts on defense?

Deberg_1990
10-15-2005, 11:28 PM
[font=garamond][size=4]

Still, more time for Green to throw means more pass completions.



Provided Parker can catch them.

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:32 PM
Provided Parker can catch them.

True.

Tribal Warfare
10-15-2005, 11:33 PM
Seriously, I believe the offense has gone down a notch from last year. It does not seem like they have the same explosive ability that dawned KC for the past three years. The addition of Roaf will help, but I fear that it would only make a mild impact.

The Defense has been playing Solid every except DB, guys both McCleon and Sutain are getting burned. The reason for that is D-line is playing solid , but not good enough . Their so many holes currently, I wonder KC can make the playoffs. If they do, everyone has to step their game. This bumbling play won't get the Chiefs any where, but in their seats at home during the playoffs.


My score

KC- 27

Skins- 20

luv
10-15-2005, 11:34 PM
Provided Parker can catch them.
I believe he's hoping Gonzalez will be open to catch it.

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:35 PM
What are your thoughts on defense?

The run D is improved. That is the good news.

The pass D is not improved. That is the bad news.

Washington does not pose the same level of Offensive threat as Philadelphia. That is the good news.

We have no legitimate pass rush, so we will HAVE to blitz. That is the bad news.

Roaf is back at LT, which means Black can play RT. That is the good news.

This game depends on the Offense playing for [4] quarters, instead of playing a quarter-and-a-half and then pulling a Houdini. That is the bad news.

As usual, it is a mixed bag.

Realistically, the game depends on the Offense living up to its reputation. Based on the last [2] games, that is seriously bad news.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hoping Roaf makes as big a difference as some folks expect.

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:37 PM
Redskins 28

Chiefs 21

Prove me wrong Chiefs....

Please prove him wrong.... :D

Deberg_1990
10-15-2005, 11:39 PM
As usual, it is a mixed bag.



And this pretty much sums up the Vermeil in KC era in a nutshell. Im tired of just "treading water" and not making any significant progress. We still have the same problems we had 3 and 4 years ago.

Katipan
10-15-2005, 11:42 PM
I predict Endelt will streak onto the field to clothesline brunell and sucker punch portis.

Chiefs 34 Redskins 3

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:43 PM
...We still have the same problems we had 3 and 4 years ago.

That is incorrect.

We have a whole new set of problems.

Change is good.

xoxo~
Gaz
Riding the tiger.

luv
10-15-2005, 11:43 PM
I predict Endelt will streak onto the field to clothesline brunell and sucker punch portis.

Chiefs 34 Redskins 3
You'll be going through ENDelt withdrawals tomorrow, huh? I'll get on here and demand you to get me a beer if that will help.

tk13
10-15-2005, 11:43 PM
Wow, a rare late night Gaz sighting. A sure sign a victory is upon us tomorrow friends.

Deberg_1990
10-15-2005, 11:45 PM
Wow, a rare late night Gaz sighting. A sure sign a victory is uoon us tomorrow friends.


hahah..i was thinking the exact same thing.

Katipan
10-15-2005, 11:45 PM
You'll be going through ENDelt withdrawals tomorrow, huh? I'll get on here and demand you to get me a beer if that will help.

you are a sweetheart

luv
10-15-2005, 11:46 PM
I just wish we could carry the first quarter we've been having of each game through the other three quarters as well.

Woodrow Call
10-15-2005, 11:46 PM
I just cant shake the bad feeling that I have.

Skins 28
KC 24

tk13
10-15-2005, 11:47 PM
You'll be going through ENDelt withdrawals tomorrow, huh? I'll get on here and demand you to get me a beer if that will help.
Don't forget to pat her on the behind when you do it.

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:48 PM
And this pretty much sums up the Vermeil in KC era in a nutshell. Im tired of just "treading water" and not making any significant progress. We still have the same problems we had 3 and 4 years ago.

I do not see how you can claim we have made no progress.

Vermeil dragged the Chiefs, kicking and screaming, into the modern NFL. Where pass Defense is not allowed and Offense is King.

As an old-fashioned Defense Homer, I am dismayed [not to mention disgusted, despairing and disillusioned] about the direction the NFL has chosen. But there is no question that Vermeil saw the right path and put us upon it.

Defense is passé, baby.

Long live the O.

xoxo~
Gaz
Reluctantly along for the ride.

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:49 PM
I just wish we could carry the first quarter we've been having of each game through the other three quarters as well.

Me too, here is the problem as I see it:

luv
10-15-2005, 11:49 PM
Don't forget to pat her on the behind when you do it.
I think I'm supposed to accidently brush her boob or something.

KChiefsQT
10-15-2005, 11:49 PM
we win. thats all i'm predicting at this time.

Gaz
10-15-2005, 11:52 PM
Wow, a rare late night Gaz sighting. A sure sign a victory is upon us tomorrow friends.

Well, bedtime is upon us here at Rancho Gaz. Mrs. Gaz just informed me that she is ready for bed, so I am outta here.

Exit stage right.

Vaya con queso, gringos Y gringas. Much luck to the R & G on the morrow.

Good night.

xoxo~
Gaz
Bound for bed.

tk13
10-15-2005, 11:52 PM
hahah..i was thinking the exact same thing.
You know how the old saying goes... When the moon is full and the Gaz is nigh, another Chiefs victory is not far behind.

luv
10-15-2005, 11:53 PM
Well, bedtime is upon us here at Rancho Gaz. Mrs. Gaz just informed me that she is ready for bed, so I am outta here.

Exit stage right.

Vaya con queso, gringos Y gringas. Much luck to the R & G on the morrow.

Good night.

xoxo~
Gaz
Bound for bed.

Wow, and he listens to his wife. That is the mark of a true leader, my friends. G'night dear Gaz.

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:56 PM
Nite Gaz, and Planet. Time for this old boy to try to sleep as well.

Deberg_1990
10-15-2005, 11:56 PM
[font=garamond][size=4]
I do not see how you can claim we have made no progress.



Still no pass defense
Still no pass rush
Still no true #1 wide Reciever (Although, Kennison has come a loong, looong way)

But like i mentioned earlier, This team is built Offense 1st, Defense 2nd, so im willing to except the lopsidedness. I ust hope we havent passed our "Window" with the offense already?? If only we had this defense in 2002-2003.

luv
10-15-2005, 11:57 PM
Nite Gaz, and Planet. Time for this old boy to try to sleep as well.
Party pooper! :p

Good night!

greg63
10-15-2005, 11:59 PM
Party pooper! :p

Good night!

ROFLROFLROFL

luv
10-16-2005, 12:00 AM
Still no pass defense
Still no pass rush
Still no true #1 wide Reciever (Although, Kennison has come a loong, looong way)

But like i mentioned earlier, This team is built Offense 1st, Defense 2nd, so im willing to except the lopsidedness. I ust hope we havent passed our "Window" with the offense already?? If only we had this defense in 2002-2003.
I've only recently become familiar enough with positions to know how they work. I am still trying to remember who plays what position. I still have many questions. Let's start with a few.

1. What is a pass rush?
2. Is a pass rush pertinent for defense? If so, how?

Mecca
10-16-2005, 12:10 AM
I've only recently become familiar enough with positions to know how they work. I am still trying to remember who plays what position. I still have many questions. Let's start with a few.

1. What is a pass rush?
2. Is a pass rush pertinent for defense? If so, how?

It's pressure on the QB when he's passing, ie how close the guys get to him or sack him. If you have no pass rush the QB will just stand there and play catch with his recievers. Any NFL QB will pick a secondary apart no matter how good it is if he has all day to look around. Someone will eventually get open if there are 8 seconds to do it instead of 3-4 seconds.

That is what and why a pass rush is very key to winning in the NFL.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:12 AM
It's pressure on the QB when he's passing, ie how close the guys get to him or sack him. If you have no pass rush the QB will just stand there and play catch with his recievers. Any NFL QB will pick a secondary apart no matter how good it is if he has all day to look around. Someone will eventually get open if there are 8 seconds to do it instead of 3-4 seconds.

That is what and why a pass rush is very key to winning in the NFL.
I see. And our key defensive lineman is DJ? What seems to be our weakness?

chefsos
10-16-2005, 12:14 AM
I've only recently become familiar enough with positions to know how they work. I am still trying to remember who plays what position. I still have many questions. Let's start with a few.

1. What is a pass rush?
2. Is a pass rush pertinent for defense? If so, how?
Yes, what Mecca said. And it looks like:

Mecca
10-16-2005, 12:15 AM
I see. And our key defensive lineman is DJ? What seems to be our weakness?

DJ is a linebacker, in a good scenario for having a good defense. You wouldn't have to use him to get pressure. The defensive line would but well our line isn't good. The Hicks, Allen, Wilkerson, Browning, Dalton those guys aren't getting it done.This is why Ryan Sims being injured is a huge blow to us. Then in turn when you have to blitz your LB's to get pressure and don't get to the QB you leave major holes in the defense and will get burned.

There in lies our problem.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:18 AM
DJ is a linebacker, in a good scenario for having a good defense. You wouldn't have to use him to get pressure. The defensive line would but well our line isn't good. The Hicks, Allen, Wilkerson, Browning, Dalton those guys aren't getting it done.This is why Ryan Sims being injured is a huge blow to us. Then in turn when you have to blitz your LB's to get pressure and don't get to the QB you leave major holes in the defense and will get burned.

There in lies our problem.
Okay, next question. What is a blitz? Basically a scramble in which the LB becomes the one to make it up to put pressure on the QB? I can definitely see how that creates problems. We want them to have control of the ball for as little time as possible. A blitz would seem to be too timely.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 12:23 AM
Okay, next question. What is a blitz? Basically a scramble in which the LB becomes the one to make it up to put pressure on the QB? I can definitely see how that creates problems. We want them to have control of the ball for as little time as possible. A blitz would seem to be too timely.

It's basically sending 1, 2 or all 3 of the LB's after the QB to get extra pressure. If the QB reads it because you telegraph it to early (something the Chiefs do alot of) and changes the play you'll likely be burned. If the blitz doesn't get to the QB you'll be burned. If you blitz and don't get to the QB you are putting an immense amount of pressure on the secondary to cover. Blitzing alot of not getting to the QB is the easiest way to give up huge plays.

But with our defense it's really pick your poison, 2 40 yard plays or a 5 minute drive where they just pick us apart because we are playing back to not allow the "big play".

luv
10-16-2005, 12:29 AM
It's basically sending 1, 2 or all 3 of the LB's after the QB to get extra pressure. If the QB reads it because you telegraph it to early (something the Chiefs do alot of) and changes the play you'll likely be burned. If the blitz doesn't get to the QB you'll be burned. If you blitz and don't get to the QB you are putting an immense amount of pressure on the secondary to cover. Blitzing alot of not getting to the QB is the easiest way to give up huge plays.

But with our defense it's really pick your poison, 2 40 yard plays or a 5 minute drive where they just pick us apart because we are playing back to not allow the "big play".
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

You'd think we'd learn. How do we work on developing good defensive tackles? Is there a reason that they don't seem to be getting the job done?

I guess I should have called this thread:

Football Basics 101 - The Defense


What are your thoughts on Mitchell at Middle LB?

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 12:33 AM
Defensive backs also blitz, both corners and safeties.

Sometimes you'll see a LB or CB blitzing, while a defensive lineman will drop backwards into coverage. This is called a "zone blitz" because the d-lineman is being asked to fill a hole in the zone coverage left by the blitzing LB or DB.

Football is about numbers and matchups. When you send extra players to rush the QB ('blitz') you're taking players out of coverage. So, let's say, instead of 4 guys in pass rush and 7 in pass coverage, you've tried to overload the (5 man) offensive line with 6 pass rushers by blitzing a LB and a safety. That's good if you get to the QB quickly, but the weakness is that you're left with just 5 in coverage, meaning fewer defensive players have to cover more space, to fill the void of the blitzers.

And if you don't get to the quarterback quickly, whether you've blitzed or not, you're probably going to get picked-apart, because the rules of football are heavily slanted towards offenses, and because even the worst NFL quarterback can and will find an open receiver if he has time to look.

It's a high-risk, high-reward sort of thing.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 12:34 AM
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

You'd think we'd learn. How do we work on developing good defensive tackles? Is there a reason that they don't seem to be getting the job done?

I guess I should have called this thread:

Football Basics 101 - The Defense


What are your thoughts on Mitchell at Middle LB?

Mitchells playing fine this year. He's actually doing better than he probably should be doing since our DT's don't protect him very well from the offensive lineman.

Basically the Chiefs have drafted very poorly when it comes to Defensive Line. So our line is very poor hence the problem. We've used alot of high draft picks on guys who've turned out to be crap. Ryan Sims is our best DT and with him hurt even if he's not an all pro it creates a serious issue to a position that was already weak.

The easiest way to build a good defense in the NFL is to build front to back. Well the Chiefs don't have the front line and that is a real big issue. A good example a few years ago the Carolina Panthers had a horrible secondary when they went to the Superbowl yet ranked #2 in defense. They were able to do that because their defensive line got so much pressure on QB's they had no time to find open recievers.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:35 AM
Defensive backs also blitz, both corners and safeties.

Sometimes you'll see a LB or CB blitzing, while a defensive lineman will drop backwards into coverage. This is called a "zone blitz" because the d-lineman is being asked to fill a hole in the zone coverage left by the blitzing LB or DB.

Football is about numbers and matchups. When you send extra players to rush the QB ('blitz') you're taking players out of coverage. So, let's say, instead of 4 guys in pass rush and 7 in pass coverage, you've tried to overload the (5 man) offensive line with 6 pass rushers by blitzing a LB and a safety. That's good if you get to the QB quickly, but the weakness is that you're left with just 5 in coverage, meaning fewer defensive players have to cover more space, to fill the void of the blitzers.

It's a high-risk, high-reward sort of thing.
If these guys are going back to cover other positions while the LB's put on the pressure, why don't they just put the LB's as the defensive line and the defensive line as the LB's?

tk13
10-16-2005, 12:37 AM
If these guys are going back to cover other positions while the LB's put on the pressure, why don't they just put the LB's as the defensive line and the defensive line as the LB's?
Because then there'd be no element of surprise. If you don't know where the blitz is coming from it's harder to block effectively.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 12:38 AM
If these guys are going back to cover other positions while the LB's put on the pressure, why don't they just put the LB's as the defensive line and the defensive line as the LB's?

Because defensive lineman weigh 300lbs and LB's have coverage assignments on alot of plays. They just simply wouldn't be fast enough. Most LB's would be undersized on the line and would get mauled by the big Offensive Lineman.

There are some undersized players who play Defensive Line in the NFL but almost everyone of them is a liability against the run. It's basically a speed and size issue more than anything else.

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 12:39 AM
If these guys are going back to cover other positions while the LB's put on the pressure, why don't they just put the LB's as the defensive line and the defensive line as the LB's?Because they're trying to confuse the offense.

For instance, imagine for a moment you're an offensive lineman. The defensive lineman you're expecting to block stops his pass rush and begins to backpedal, and Derrick Johnson comes at you off the corner. You have to adjust to that...if you weren't expecting it before the snap.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:40 AM
Because then there'd be no element of surprise. If you don't know where the blitz is coming from it's harder to block effectively.
I see, and like Mecca said, we send too many signals that we are going to blitz, so the offensive line is ready for it. And if we become known for it, there's nothing we can really do about it while we have a weak defensive line.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 12:42 AM
The only thing you can really do is hope your secondary can cover long enough for the line to get there. Which is assbackwards of the way it's suppose to work. Against the Jet's it worked, the last couple of games, not so much.

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 12:43 AM
I see, and like Mecca said, we send too many signals that we are going to blitz, so the offensive line is ready for it. And if we become know for it, there's nothing we can really do about it while we have a weak defensive line.Sometimes you want the offensive line to think you're blitzing when you aren't. And sometimes you want the offensive line to think that you think that they think you are when you aren't, when in fact or are, or not, or might be.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:44 AM
There's so much more to the defense than I had originally thought. The plays will also depend on if the offense decides to pass or run.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:46 AM
Sometimes you want the offensive line to think you're blitzing when you aren't. And sometimes you want the offensive line to think that you think that they think you are when you aren't, when in fact or are, or not, or might be.
Surely football isn't psychological, too! Not just brainless, brawny men out there running over each other? :p

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 12:47 AM
Football's a fascinating game.

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 12:48 AM
And my gut feeling is that we'll win pretty handily tomorrow.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:50 AM
Football's a fascinating game.
Yeah. I grew up a baseball fan. Go Cards (shhh...don't tell anyone in here I said that). Football is much more complex. I'm known for making things more difficult than they need to be or already are, so I like complexity! :D

tk13
10-16-2005, 12:53 AM
Yeah. I grew up a baseball fan. Go Cards (shhh...don't tell anyone in here I said that). Football is much more complex. I'm known for making things more difficult than they need to be or already are, so I like complexity! :D
Ehhh, baseball is more complex than you might imagine. Your choice of teams leaves much to be desired though.

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 12:55 AM
Baseball can be quite complex, and I love the game, but football, as a team sport, is just on another level.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:56 AM
Ehhh, baseball is more complex than you might imagine. Your choice of teams leaves much to be desired though.
Hey now, they made it to the WS last year, and the playoffs this year. Doesn't look like they'll make it past that, but I would say that's not too bad.

Anyway, I'm talking football here. I wish I could have gone to the game.

tk13
10-16-2005, 12:58 AM
Yeah football is more of a "team" sport of everybody having to work together every single play, whereas the focus of a baseball game is usually between the pitcher and batter. I mean there's more to it than that, how you line up the defense, how you play certain situations etc. that we could spend hours on, but a lot of that is keyed off the individual matchup of pitcher vs. batter.

luv
10-16-2005, 12:59 AM
I'm still saying Chiefs 27-24, although I'm hoping the margin will be greater than that.

tk13
10-16-2005, 01:04 AM
I think if Roaf is truly 100% healthy we are gonna leave some skid marks on their backs. Hard telling though, so far we've seen four distinctly different performances out of this team.

luv
10-16-2005, 01:06 AM
I think if Roaf is truly 100% healthy we are gonna leave some skid marks on their backs. Hard telling though, so far we've seen four distinctly different performances out of this team.
Very true. All games seemed to have started out strong. However, we seem to be using different methods of botching things up later in the game. We are definitely helping others team second half stats.

keg in kc
10-16-2005, 01:09 AM
I think there's a slight possibility that we'll see a dominant defensive performance tomorrow (err, later today), and I don't mean the Redskins defense.

luv
10-16-2005, 01:20 AM
Well, thank you all for the lesson on defense. I think I'm ready to get into my very comfortable bed. Talk to y'all tomorrow, I'm sure. It's been a pleasure, as usual. G'night.

kregger
10-16-2005, 01:30 AM
Chiefs 35 Skins 17

joesomebody
10-16-2005, 01:54 AM
I say we win by at least 10...

I only see this as a close game if we lose.

philfree
10-16-2005, 01:56 AM
Chiefs win! 45-20

This is the healthiest we've been so far this season and we're due for an Arrowhead Special. Starts out like the Eagles game but we keep attacking. I predict Brunell doesn't finish the game and I predict that Portis gives up his phony Championship belt. Tony has two T.D. receptions and Parker get's one too. Holmes get's two as well as LJ breaking a long one late. We also get a D T.D. and Tynes goes one for one on FGs......I think that equals 45 points..........Yeah, yeah that's 45. In the 4th qtr the fans are doing the wave......'The Red Sunami'........

PhilFree:arrow:

luv
10-16-2005, 10:46 AM
Chiefs win! 45-20

This is the healthiest we've been so far this season and we're due for an Arrowhead Special. Starts out like the Eagles game but we keep attacking. I predict Brunell doesn't finish the game and I predict that Portis gives up his phony Championship belt. Tony has two T.D. receptions and Parker get's one too. Holmes get's two as well as LJ breaking a long one late. We also get a D T.D. and Tynes goes one for one on FGs......I think that equals 45 points..........Yeah, yeah that's 45. In the 4th qtr the fans are doing the wave......'The Red Sunami'........

PhilFree:arrow:
Tony's two = 14
Parker's one = 7
Holmes' two = 14
LJ's one = 7
D's one = 7
Tyne's FG = 3

Assuming we get all of the extra points for the TD's, tht would come out to 52. It would be 45 if we didn't get any of the extra points. I like that score even better! :thumb:

RINGLEADER
10-16-2005, 11:59 AM
I don't think it will even be close. Look for a blow-out...

greg63
10-16-2005, 03:23 PM
Redskins 21
Chiefs 28
Prove me right Chiefs....
Fixed your post. :D

luv
10-16-2005, 03:25 PM
Wow. I wasn't too far off. I had us winning by three instead of seven.

greg63
10-16-2005, 03:32 PM
Yup, good prediction, kiddo ;)

greg63
10-16-2005, 03:45 PM
Yes, what Mecca said. And it looks like:
That pic is awesome!!!