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RINGLEADER
10-16-2005, 02:27 PM
Chiefs need to solve the 'other' CB problem pronto...Hopefully Vermeil will get over whatever problems exist with Warfield and hopefully Warfield will bring even a little coverage skill to that side of the field.

Chiefs defense is better...you see it in spurts...but they still give up at least one big home-run play a game. More than just putting 7 points in the other team's pocket, however, it just kills our momentum.

The offense still seems to be in a funk, but that's partially because of the way teams are committing to stopping the run. We have to get better at getting Gonzo and the WRs into the game.

I think we win in Miami despite our inability to win in Florida provided the offense gets its act together. Not so confident about San Diego...I think Brees-Gates-McCardell will shred our defensive backfield and loosen up our run defense.

Was happy to see Vermeil finally lean on the offense and go for it on 4th and inches. Some see it as the gutsy call, I've always screamed it is the smart call. Our defense may get there in a few games, but if you're going to rely on one side of our team the offense - even when it's having trouble moving the ball - is the better bet.

Kudos to Jared Allen. That was an all-world performance. Now if we could only get Eric Hicks some of the juice that Allen's drinking...

luv
10-16-2005, 02:32 PM
I think that y'all need to boot DV and coach this team yourselves. If the fans can tell who's having a good day, who is getting more yards per run, who is intercepting more fumbles, etc while the coach keeps these players from playing, what does that say about the coach?

RINGLEADER
10-16-2005, 02:34 PM
I think that y'all need to boot DV and coach this team yourselves. If the fans can tell who's having a good day, who is getting more yards per run, who is intercepting more fumbles, etc while the coach keeps these players from playing, what does that say about the coach?

Dunno. But the loss to the Eagles was born pretty much from the coaching decisions...

luv
10-16-2005, 02:37 PM
Dunno. But the loss to the Eagles was born pretty much from the coaching decisions...
Granted that Washington handed us this game in turnovers, there was some poor coaching. Trent made some good calls. And thank goodness for Allen.

the Talking Can
10-16-2005, 02:38 PM
I feel like won in spite of Gun and AS.

Brunnel had a near perfect QB rating, and we're perfecting some type of Bend-And-Cause-A-Fumble defense...and our OL got beat - a lot...McCleon cost us an int and a TD...etc...

I'm confused about this team.

But i feel good because we won.

htismaqe
10-16-2005, 02:46 PM
Vermeil is already over whatever problems exist with Warfield.

He wanted to activate him today, the defensive coaches didn't.

Gunther needs to go.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 02:50 PM
Damn, I guess all these people blaming Vermiel for McCleon starting and all this soft zone need a reality check. Gunthers apparently lost his damn mind time to get rid of him and our othe worthless D coaches.

the Talking Can
10-16-2005, 02:52 PM
Vermeil is already over whatever problems exist with Warfield.

He wanted to activate him today, the defensive coaches didn't.

Gunther needs to go.

not even activating him is a crime...McCleon was injured for a series...

Gun is a giant moron

luv
10-16-2005, 02:54 PM
Vermeil is already over whatever problems exist with Warfield.

He wanted to activate him today, the defensive coaches didn't.

Gunther needs to go.
Who has the ultimate say? If DV wanted him to play, shouldn't his vote be worth more than the defensive coaches. He's the one that listened to them.

RINGLEADER
10-16-2005, 02:58 PM
I'm defaulting to Warfield because he's our second-best corner...but the issue is that Dexter is nothing but a liability on the other side of the field. Move Surtain over or get our second-best corner on the field.

And I'm sure if Vermeil wanted Warfield dressed he could have over-ridden whatever reasons Gunther had. Unless he's injured or turned into a turd during the suspension - neither of which I've heard - he should have been ready to go. Whether or not that solves the problem remains to be seen...

htismaqe
10-16-2005, 03:03 PM
Who has the ultimate say? If DV wanted him to play, shouldn't his vote be worth more than the defensive coaches. He's the one that listened to them.

Everybody and their dog wanted DV to stay as far away from this defense as possible. That's what he did.

jynni
10-16-2005, 03:04 PM
Move Surtain over or get our second-best corner on the field.
Or just cut out this sh*t with limiting a CB to his half of the field.

B_Ambuehl
10-16-2005, 03:05 PM
What??

You feel confident about winning in Miami despite the fact that Mark Brunell and the Redskins should've and would've blown us out today at home were it not for 3 very fortunate turnovers on their behalf??

Do you know what happens to team on the road that are -3 in turnovers?? They're supposed to lose and lose bigtime. Yet these guys were -3, had calls go against them and still had a chance to tie/win the game. Their offense looked like a top ranked NFL offense yet everybody knows they're not very good. Hmmm... What should logic predict for this Chiefs team on the road in Miami with a loud crowd and Ricky Williams playing offense the first time this year at home?

chief52
10-16-2005, 03:09 PM
What??

You feel confident about winning in Miami despite the fact that Mark Brunell and the Redskins should've and would've blown us out today at home were it not for 3 very fortunate turnovers on their behalf??

Do you know what happens to team on the road that are -3 in turnovers?? They're supposed to lose and lose bigtime. Yet these guys were -3, had calls go against them and still had a chance to tie/win the game. Their offense looked like a top ranked NFL offense yet everybody knows they're not very good. Hmmm... What should logic predict for this Chiefs team on the road in Miami with a loud crowd and Ricky Williams playing offense the first time this year at home?

Did it look to you like those " very fortunate turnovers" were gifts...or were they earned? I guess you could not tell the difference. Let me help you, there is a difference.

P.S. I feel extremely confidant going into Miami...especially if they are forced to use Ricky Williams as a main back. I guess you have not heard he has been out for a while.

luv
10-16-2005, 03:11 PM
Did it look to you like those " very fortunate turnovers" were gifts...or were they earned? I guess you could not tell the difference. Let me help you, there is a difference.
Very true. Some of those turnovers were forced by Allen, among others.

B_Ambuehl
10-16-2005, 07:28 PM
Did it look to you like those " very fortunate turnovers" were gifts...or were they earned? I guess you could not tell the difference. Let me help you, there is a difference.

Well let me put it another way. We could play the Skins again ten times and 9 times out of 10 this team wouldn't come up +3 in the turnover margin or get an 80 yard fumble return for a touchdown. That's a 14 point swing the way their offense was playing. The first turnover I'd also consider more luck. Skins were inside our 50 and Allen was out of the play and happened to stick his hand out and get the ball. It was so fortunate the TV cameras didn't even pick it up. 99 snaps out of 100 you don't knock the ball out that easily on that particular play. Rock Cartwright fumbling I'd consider another gift as they were again well inside the 50 and driving and he was running towards a first down and didn't even appear to be hit that hard. That the ball came out was one thing but to have it returned for a touchdown ain't gonna happen very often.

chief52
10-16-2005, 07:39 PM
Well let me put it another way. We could play the Skins again ten times and 9 times out of 10 this team wouldn't come up +3 in the turnover margin or get an 80 yard fumble return for a touchdown. That's a 14 point swing the way their offense was playing. The first turnover I'd also consider more luck. Skins were inside our 50 and Allen was out of the play and happened to stick his hand out and get the ball. It was so fortunate the TV cameras didn't even pick it up. 99 snaps out of 100 you don't knock the ball out that easily on that particular play. Rock Cartwright fumbling I'd consider another gift as they were again well inside the 50 and driving and he was running towards a first down and didn't even appear to be hit that hard. That the ball came out was one thing but to have it returned for a touchdown ain't gonna happen very often.

What if, what if...maybe the Chiefs would have even won by more if that did not happen. You can not take specific plays out of a game and expect that the rest of the game would have gone on unchanged. Football does not work that way. I would say the Chiefs would not go +3 and score on an 80 yard fumble recovery 99/100 times. It sure as hell does not mean they would not win the game.

runnercyclist
10-16-2005, 07:48 PM
Well let me put it another way. We could play the Skins again ten times and 9 times out of 10 this team wouldn't come up +3 in the turnover margin or get an 80 yard fumble return for a touchdown. That's a 14 point swing the way their offense was playing. The first turnover I'd also consider more luck. Skins were inside our 50 and Allen was out of the play and happened to stick his hand out and get the ball. It was so fortunate the TV cameras didn't even pick it up. 99 snaps out of 100 you don't knock the ball out that easily on that particular play. Rock Cartwright fumbling I'd consider another gift as they were again well inside the 50 and driving and he was running towards a first down and didn't even appear to be hit that hard. That the ball came out was one thing but to have it returned for a touchdown ain't gonna happen very often.

Then die hard with a vengence...

Douche Baggins
10-16-2005, 07:49 PM
Miami's offense scares the crap out of me. They have big, talented receivers and two good running backs.

Hopefully Frerotte throws us a couple.

luv
10-16-2005, 07:49 PM
Well let me put it another way. We could play the Skins again ten times and 9 times out of 10 this team wouldn't come up +3 in the turnover margin or get an 80 yard fumble return for a touchdown. That's a 14 point swing the way their offense was playing. The first turnover I'd also consider more luck. Skins were inside our 50 and Allen was out of the play and happened to stick his hand out and get the ball. It was so fortunate the TV cameras didn't even pick it up. 99 snaps out of 100 you don't knock the ball out that easily on that particular play. Rock Cartwright fumbling I'd consider another gift as they were again well inside the 50 and driving and he was running towards a first down and didn't even appear to be hit that hard. That the ball came out was one thing but to have it returned for a touchdown ain't gonna happen very often.
Everything happens for a reason. If we were meant to win the game (which we did) it would have happened one way or another. What if Allen hadn't gotten the sacks and fumble recoveries? What if Knight hadn't run the ball back for a defensive TD?

gblowfish
10-16-2005, 07:52 PM
I'm going to defend Gunther. They won today. Defense stepped up when it counted in the last two minutes. Gunther is doing the best he can with what he's got. And if they didn't activate Warfield, he must have a good reason. It's all about the "W" and we got one today.

Would you rather have "GRob" Back?

I didn't think so.

Skip Towne
10-16-2005, 07:58 PM
Anybody that is "extremely confident" about the outcome of any NFL game should stay away from the betting window.

Extra Point
10-16-2005, 08:20 PM
Think the Chiefs players will get Wednesday off?

(Any body else see an old NFL films or old ESPN report this week, about coaches giving Wednesdays off if their teams win?)

I don't think there will be any Wednesdays off for the rest of the season. I think this team is re-dedicating itself, and will try and peak when it counts, beyond the first playoff game.

ck_IN
10-16-2005, 08:36 PM
Jared Allen had a monster day and because of it we won.

This game should've been a blowout, especially with the odd play calling that the Skins were doing. If I were calling it, I'd have worn Moss and Cloyer out since we had no answer to either.

I think it's time to resurect the desiginated dope slapper. The DDS needs to inform Saunders that Gonzo is on <u>his</u> team and is eligible to catch a pass.

The defense overall is still a mess and will be shredded the minute we play a decent offense again. Luckily for us that wasn't today and won't be next week.

B_Ambuehl
10-16-2005, 11:27 PM
What if Allen hadn't gotten the sacks and fumble recoveries? What if Knight hadn't run the ball back for a defensive TD?

Then we would've lost the football game which is all I was trying to say in the first place. :) Chances are the things that won us the football game this week aren't gonna win us the game next week and if we play the way we played this week (minus those fortunate incidents) then we will lose the football game against Miami and we would've lost against Washington.

Now if you wanna bank on the fact that the defense will score next week and come up plus 3 in turnovers then by all means go ahead - But I'm not confident in that happening. Therefore in my mind in order to win the game the defense must give up less yardage and the offense must be more consistent. Since neither of those things have improved much if any all year I am not that confident. Hopeful? Yes. But confident? No.

luv
10-16-2005, 11:59 PM
Then we would've lost the football game which is all I was trying to say in the first place. :) Chances are the things that won us the football game this week aren't gonna win us the game next week and if we play the way we played this week (minus those fortunate incidents) then we will lose the football game against Miami and we would've lost against Washington.

Now if you wanna bank on the fact that the defense will score next week and come up plus 3 in turnovers then by all means go ahead - But I'm not confident in that happening. Therefore in my mind in order to win the game the defense must give up less yardage and the offense must be more consistent. Since neither of those things have improved much if any all year I am not that confident. Hopeful? Yes. But confident? No.
Has any team ever played the same way every week? No. If we win next week, it will be based off of different plays. Offensive? Denfensive? Who knows?

Pants
10-17-2005, 12:21 AM
Think the Chiefs players will get Wednesday off?

(Any body else see an old NFL films or old ESPN report this week, about coaches giving Wednesdays off if their teams win?)

I don't think there will be any Wednesdays off for the rest of the season. I think this team is re-dedicating itself, and will try and peak when it counts, beyond the first playoff game.

It's called the Victory Monday for the Chiefs. The team gets monday off after every win.

B_Ambuehl
10-17-2005, 11:31 AM
Has any team ever played the same way every week? No. If we win next week, it will be based off of different plays. Offensive? Denfensive? Who knows?

I disagree. This defense has played the same for the last 38 weeks of football. Week in and week out they can be guaranteed to give up + 300 total yards and 21 points at the lower end and those numbers surely don't get any better on the road.

luv
10-17-2005, 11:37 AM
I disagree. This defense has played the same for the last 38 weeks of football. Week in and week out they can be guaranteed to give up + 300 total yards and 21 points at the lower end and those numbers surely don't get any better on the road.
So Allen makes those same plays every game? Knight always runs back for a defensive TD? They may have the consistency of playing poorly, but they do not make the same plays every week. Every game is different, and you never know what will happen.

Gaz
10-17-2005, 11:42 AM
I disagree. This defense has played the same for the last 38 weeks of football. Week in and week out they can be guaranteed to give up + 300 total yards and 21 points at the lower end and those numbers surely don't get any better on the road.

That is just blatant nonsense.

xoxo~
Gaz
Shooing this silliness away.

B_Ambuehl
10-17-2005, 11:55 AM
Hey look at the statistics. 16 consecutive games the KC D has given up 300+ yards of offense.

Does anyone really expect anything different next week?

Gaz
10-17-2005, 11:59 AM
A fine demonstration of what happens when you base your opinions on statistics.

xoxo~
Gaz
Watching a fine object lesson unfold.

luv
10-17-2005, 12:02 PM
Hey look at the statistics. 16 consecutive games the KC D has given up 300+ yards of offense.

Does anyone really expect anything different next week?
I can't ever keep straight who is a Chiefs fan and who roots for another team. Which team do you cheer on again? I don't think I've seen you say anything good. Only critique. Of course, I haven't searched through all of your posts either. If this is not the case, my apologies.

luv
10-17-2005, 12:05 PM
A fine demonstration of what happens when you base your opinions on statistics.

xoxo~
Gaz
Watching a fine object lesson unfold.

I would suggest reading a book called The Goal. It's about manufacturing, but it clearly illistrates what happens when you put all of your focus on numbers. That's only one part of a much bigger picture. They only tell part of the story. I think that would apply here as well.

Chief Faithful
10-17-2005, 12:10 PM
I'm not going to say the 2005 defense is great, but I liked yesterday's defense better than any under GRob. Every year I saw the defense deteriorate a little more with no hope of improvement under GRob. Under Gun I have seen a slow turn around and continual improvement. If Sims had not been injured and Warfield not suspended this defense could be on the edge of something very good. I'm already please with the run defense, which was abismal two years ago.

A little more depth and a little more time under Gun and this will be a very good defense.

Chiefnj
10-17-2005, 12:17 PM
So, the Chiefs were lucky Allen had a good day and Knight was in the right place at the right time.

Were the Eagles lucky that Allen missed the sack on 3rd down in the redzone on the TD pass, and that on another drive on 3rd down a ball was tipped by a LB but caught nonetheless by an Eagles receiver setting up a first and goal at the two?

Every week in the NFL there are one or two plays where the luck of the bounce, etc., comes into play and determines the outcome of a game.

TEX
10-17-2005, 12:28 PM
I'm not going to say the 2005 defense is great, but I liked yesterday's defense better than any under GRob. Every year I saw the defense deteriorate a little more with no hope of improvement under GRob. Under Gun I have seen a slow turn around and continual improvement. If Sims had not been injured and Warfield not suspended this defense could be on the edge of something very good. I'm already please with the run defense, which was abismal two years ago.

A little more depth and a little more time under Gun and this will be a very good defense.

And by that time, we'll be the CHIEFS of the 90's again, cause the Offense will stink. After this year the offense will need a major overhaul, having been wasted for the past 3 years waiting for the -efense to just get respectable. :shake:

B_Ambuehl
10-17-2005, 12:31 PM
I can't ever keep straight who is a Chiefs fan and who roots for another team. Which team do you cheer on again? I don't think I've seen you say anything good. Only critique. Of course, I haven't searched through all of your posts either. If this is not the case, my apologies.

That's a predictable response when I bring up facts that support what I've said when you have nothing to base your "hopes" on then flukes.

But anyway, I digress. I'm gonna be a real fan. The Chiefs will win next weeks game. How are they gonna win it? Miami will be held to 150 total yards offense and KC will have 2 backs over 100 yards 300 yards passing, be +4 in turnovers. Jared Allen will also lead the NFL in sacks this year.

That's what a fan is suposed to do right? Expect the impossible and bitch when it doesn't happen? woo hoo...Go Chiefs!

luv
10-17-2005, 12:49 PM
That's a predictable response when I bring up facts that support what I've said when you have nothing to base your "hopes" on then flukes.

But anyway, I digress. I'm gonna be a real fan. The Chiefs will win next weeks game. How are they gonna win it? Miami will be held to 150 total yards offense and KC will have 2 backs over 100 yards 300 yards passing, be +4 in turnovers. Jared Allen will also lead the NFL in sacks this year.

That's what a fan is suposed to do right? Expect the impossible and bitch when it doesn't happen? woo hoo...Go Chiefs!
You obviously overlooked the post where I said numbers only tell part of the story. We won yesterday. Who's the one bitching about our defense? You basically said the only reason we won was due to turnovers. While that may be part of it, some players also made some impressive plays. And like someone else pointed out, you never know how a ball is going to bounce. Where do things like that fit into your precious statistics. I'm not claiming to know it all. Actually, I know very little. I happen to try to be more optimistic than I usually am. Someone has to have hope.

Why even be a Chiefs fan if you think we're dependent upon flukes?

StcChief
10-17-2005, 01:45 PM
Turn overs were earned....

I didn't see any real drops,luck pickups.

Sure every turnover could be recovered by offense.

Not always how it works.

Paul Palmer
10-17-2005, 01:54 PM
It would have been better to change up coverage on Moss with Warfield...but the bottom line is that few corners or schemes will contain Santana Moss this season...He looks to be a legitimate gamebreaker so far....

Chief Faithful
10-17-2005, 01:55 PM
And by that time, we'll be the CHIEFS of the 90's again, cause the Offense will stink. After this year the offense will need a major overhaul, having been wasted for the past 3 years waiting for the -efense to just get respectable. :shake:

I do believe that is what will happen. Head Coach, LT, WR, and QB are what scares me the most.

Chief Faithful
10-17-2005, 01:57 PM
That's a predictable response when I bring up facts that support what I've said when you have nothing to base your "hopes" on then flukes.

But anyway, I digress. I'm gonna be a real fan. The Chiefs will win next weeks game. How are they gonna win it? Miami will be held to 150 total yards offense and KC will have 2 backs over 100 yards 300 yards passing, be +4 in turnovers. Jared Allen will also lead the NFL in sacks this year.

That's what a fan is suposed to do right? Expect the impossible and bitch when it doesn't happen? woo hoo...Go Chiefs!

I believe the run defense is solid, which will go a long way in Miami. Also, Miami not being a pass offense power house, next week is a good time to introduce Warfield back into the defense.