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chiefsfan58
10-16-2005, 02:36 PM
Has he done a thing this season? I hope Gun figures this one out...

the Talking Can
10-16-2005, 02:40 PM
he's a playing a read-and-react scheme at the line of scrimmage...he never rushes all out, and he frequently drops into coverage...he looks lost and slow

I blame Gun as much as Bell, though Bell hasn't impressed me at all.

RedThat
10-16-2005, 02:40 PM
Has he done a thing this season? I hope Gun figures this one out...

Hes been god awful. Bad investment.

Freekofnature
10-16-2005, 02:41 PM
Bell is an upfield player.

I see Bell hasnt made his transition as a complete LB yet.

leviw
10-16-2005, 02:43 PM
I'm willing to give him a few more weeks. Remember, he didn't play but a few snaps in the preseason, so he's behind in that aspect. I still don't know if he's 100%. He looks very slow out there. But, I think he'll be fine with a couple more weeks under his belt.

the Talking Can
10-16-2005, 02:45 PM
Bell is an upfield player.



but that's not how we use him...he lines up in a crouch outside the DE to play the run, if its a pass he usually drops into a zone...and he is terrible in coverage...he rarely blitzes, and when he does he never gets there...

RedThat
10-16-2005, 02:45 PM
he's a playing a read-and-react scheme at the line of scrimmage...he never rushes all out, and he frequently drops into coverage...he looks lost and slow

I blame Gun as much as Bell, though Bell hasn't impressed me at all.

Yeah I agree. That's what Ive been seeing from Bell as well. Perhaps its the way they're using him. He's definately not a coverage guy. I say we just rush him, thats it. Dont use him in coverage because like you said, he looks lost.
I don't know if its just me, I also see him getting beat on runs as well. He's always chasing the ball carrier, and is always late getting there, he is getting beat.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 02:46 PM
Bell basically is learning how to play that position so he takes missteps and looks lost. We're gonna have to give him some time before he makes plays. As was said earlier he's an up the field player so when he takes missteps or gets confused it takes him out of plays.

NJ Chief Fan
10-16-2005, 02:50 PM
i say we cut his ass and trade for arrington

B_Ambuehl
10-16-2005, 02:55 PM
He has been huge in the running game. Even though you may not see him making tackles he has regularly been blowing up lead blockers and lineman in every game. For that reason alone you need him out there.

He obviously doesn't play in the nickel and the Chiefs have been running alot of nickel on 2nd down os many times he's only out there 1 snap every 2 plays.

He also blitzed a lot today the problem is he blitzed so much he's not a surprise to the offense whatsoever.

leviw
10-16-2005, 02:56 PM
i say we cut his ass and trade for arrington

I'm sure that'd go off without a cap hit.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 02:57 PM
i say we cut his ass and trade for arrington

That would put both teams over the cap because of their cap hits.........

Rain Man
10-16-2005, 03:00 PM
I think the Steelers sent over an imposter. He doesn't look big enough to be a real linebacker.

Sure-Oz
10-16-2005, 03:14 PM
I have yet to see Bell do anything but run, i have yet to see him make a hit.

Dunit35
10-16-2005, 03:17 PM
I saw him today more than I have any other game, still very unimpressed with him so far. I also would give him a few more games before I make a judgement on him.

GoTrav
10-16-2005, 03:17 PM
we need to put 99 on a milk carton...I think he's missing.

Count Zarth
10-16-2005, 03:20 PM
Bell had his best game today. He did a decent job covering and had 6 tackles.

Otter
10-16-2005, 03:26 PM
Key in on him a few plays, he's never attacking. It's like he's constantly spying the QB.

He's an attacker, if you don't use him that way Gun's gonna have the same results that Denver did with Dale Carter.

JMHO

Skip Towne
10-16-2005, 03:28 PM
I think the Steelers sent over an imposter. He doesn't look big enough to be a real linebacker.
That's what I was thinking. I'll bet that guy came out of their accounting department.

ChiefsLV
10-16-2005, 04:35 PM
If we cut him this year, aren't we only responsible for the 3.5 million of his bonus since we gave him a tiered bonus?

MadMax
10-16-2005, 04:38 PM
That's what I was thinking. I'll bet that guy came out of their accounting department.

Larry Tate??? Office linebacker.. :p

jiveturkey
10-16-2005, 05:14 PM
I have yet to see Bell do anything but run, i have yet to see him make a hit.He just about knocked someone out on the sideline play late in the game.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 05:17 PM
If we cut him this year, aren't we only responsible for the 3.5 million of his bonus since we gave him a tiered bonus?

Actually yea if the Chiefs cut him after this year they basically get of paying a good deal of money. It's basically a safety net to structure his contract the way it is.

Kclee
10-16-2005, 05:21 PM
He just about knocked someone out on the sideline play late in the game.


Yep, he hit Cooley. One of the sideline announcers said that Cooley had a look on his face like he didn't know he was in K.C. after that.

Frankie
10-16-2005, 05:42 PM
What I don't understand is this:

A- Bell was a great inside LB at Pitt.
B- We are woefully short of quality D-line players.

A+B= [3-4 'D']
WHY AREN'T THE CHIEFS PLAYING IT?!!

Chiefnj
10-16-2005, 05:46 PM
What I don't understand is this:

A- Bell was a great inside LB at Pitt.
B- We are woefully short of quality D-line players.

A+B= [3-4 'D']
WHY AREN'T THE CHIEFS PLAYING IT?!!


Use the search feature. It's been discussed ad nauseum the last 4 weeks.

CupidStunt
10-16-2005, 06:04 PM
Bell has unbelievable closing speed and is uber-explosive.

He's just rarely in position and normally the 2nd guy to get to a play.

Mecca
10-16-2005, 06:06 PM
What I don't understand is this:

A- Bell was a great inside LB at Pitt.
B- We are woefully short of quality D-line players.

A+B= [3-4 'D']
WHY AREN'T THE CHIEFS PLAYING IT?!!

See Defensive Line....... a 3-4 line is basically 3 DT's 3 good DT's, we don't even have 1 right now...........

thepascalblaze
10-16-2005, 06:10 PM
Something needs to be adjusted schemewise... we are playing some GR/GUN hybrid still... wishfully thinking, maybe Warfeild can help, but I don't know. The "new turd gun" still seems to have some blanks, though Allen, luckily, was under the firing pin just enough today... more agression from the players has us in the thick, thanks to Gun, less aggression from Gun has us sketchy... DV, please turn Gun loose... our soft zone gives up big plays anyway...
I must say here that I was pleased by the D more than in the past, but we aquired players to turn Gun loose with high risk/reward. w/out Jared and his fumble fest, we would'nt have had the TO's to win...

Count Zarth
10-16-2005, 06:14 PM
The Chiefs played alot less zone today.

We gave up 100 yards on two plays because of a blown coverage and a missed tackle/bad angle. That was the main problem IMO.

This D is still a work in progress. I am just glad we held Portis under 80 yards. Because I hate that bastard.

thepascalblaze
10-16-2005, 06:22 PM
Gochiefs, your right. I did notice McCleon doing his version of a jam at the line, at 4' 9" I think he did his best. I understand zones and jammin aren't mutually exclusive as well, but the thing we ran was some hybrid. It was not as high risk/ reward as , say the 90's, nit that we have the same caliber players. However, compare game one to today. No Warfield then either, but when the 'skins used max protect we stifled them.

RedThat
10-16-2005, 06:38 PM
The Chiefs played alot less zone today.

We gave up 100 yards on two plays because of a blown coverage and a missed tackle/bad angle. That was the main problem IMO.

This D is still a work in progress. I am just glad we held Portis under 80 yards. Because I hate that bastard.

Me too!

No championship belts today
ROFL

listopencil
10-16-2005, 07:12 PM
It wasn't Portis that killed D's, it was Portis in our offense.

TRR
10-16-2005, 07:55 PM
Bell is in far more plays than most give him credit for on here.

Posters have to remember that Bell hasn't played football for an entire year, and missed all of Preseason. Give him some time to learn a brand new scheme, and a brand new position.

Lastly, Gun isn't utilizing Bell's strength's. 75% of the time, Bell is back in coverage. That has never been one of Bell's strength's. Bell is a blitz first kind of LB that isn't allowed to blitz. DJ has been coming from all over the place, and rarely ever gets there...and when he does, he whiffs. I'm not sure why Bell isn't given the same opportunity considering he is one of the best blitzing LB's in the league? And Gun has him playing as another CB essentially.

All and all, Bell has been great against the run, and is still finding himself.

BigRedChief
10-16-2005, 08:03 PM
both him and Surtain are not earning their money.

TRR
10-16-2005, 08:07 PM
both him and Surtain are not earning their money.

Both Bell and Surtain are not being used properly.

jspchief
10-17-2005, 07:10 AM
As others have said, Bell isn't being used to his strength. His weak spot is pass coverage, and he routinely drops back instead of rushing.

I also agree that he's doing more than his stats indicate. He does an excellent job in pursuit and blows up a lot of run lanes. He just hasn't been the guy getting the tackle (or getting gamebook credit for it).

The question is, do we keep him? He becomes very expensive next year. I hope he gets better, or we won't have the guy on our team in '06. With the way Fox looked, and the experience that Griffin is going to get this year, Bell may not give enough return on that 2006 investment.

Otter
10-17-2005, 07:28 AM
Gochiefs, your right.

What are things heard when discussing how to preserve your virginity till age 35.

I’ll take “Pit bulls: Your Friend and Ours” for $500 Alex.

BigRedChief
10-17-2005, 07:32 AM
Both Bell and Surtain are not being used properly.

I wholeheartly agree with what you and jspchief said. Surtain should be playing manoman and putting Bell in pass coverage is not what he was brought in to do. He needs to blow up run plays and blitz the QB. Make them think where is Bell now. Same with DJ. We need to blitz more often. But maybe we are not because they are protecting McCleon? Who knows whats going on behind the scenes :hmmm:

sedated
10-17-2005, 07:39 AM
Bell is a fat-a$$ loser. Any linebacker that gets burned by Jake the Fake needs to sit on the bench.

sedated
10-17-2005, 07:41 AM
Who knows whats going on behind the scenes :hmmm:

No body does, not even the coaching staff. They have all lost it and Grandpa should be fired, or the chiefs will underachieve yet again.

Mecca
10-17-2005, 07:59 AM
Bell is a fat-a$$ loser. Any linebacker that gets burned by Jake the Fake needs to sit on the bench.

I watched the Pats get burned by that play yesterday... we are not the only team in the NFL to get beat on a bootleg.

Frosty
10-17-2005, 08:30 AM
It wasn't Portis that killed D's, it was Portis in our offense.

No kidding. I got really tired of hearing the announcers talking over and over about how Portis always had big games against the Chiefs. It's the blocking scheme the Chiefs have a problem with, not the back.

keg in kc
10-17-2005, 08:45 AM
I didn't expect at any point this season to say that Kawika Mitchell was the only decent linebacker we seem to have. Both Bell and DJ have been no-shows for a month.

Hopefully this'll work itself out by midseason.

Extra Point
10-17-2005, 08:52 AM
What's the coach's first job? To assess the talent he has, find weaknesses, and build them into strengths.
Case in Point: Jared Allen. Rush happy, drops contain on occasion. Solution, f*** contain, just hook into the backfield and go after the ball. OLB will contain the flank.

Second? Put his players in schemes/plays that they can execute. Bell has some speed to chase the flat, but has to react to the run. Should it be watch for pass, or watch for run, first? That's Gun's job to direct the D, as he sets up the scheme. If Gun guesses right, there's no issue. If he guesses wrong, 300,000 or so fans get to bitch about it.

Third? Score more points than the other team, keeping the other team from scoring.

If it's that easy why doesn't everybody do it? That's why we have Day Jobs!

jspchief
10-17-2005, 09:14 AM
I didn't expect at any point this season to say that Kawika Mitchell was the only decent linebacker we seem to have. Both Bell and DJ have been no-shows for a month.

Hopefully this'll work itself out by midseason.DJ has been a no show? Do you even watch the games?

Derrick Johnson has 18 solo tackles in the last 2 games. He's 20th in the league in total tackles, and 11 of the guys ahead of him have played an extra game. You call that "no show"?

When you consider that teams don't run against us because it's so easy to pass, it's a miracle that we hear our LBs names as often as we do.

Bootlegged
10-17-2005, 09:18 AM
Bell looks short and fat on the field. I know he's not, but he looks it.

|Zach|
10-17-2005, 09:22 AM
Bell is a little slow. He has trouble being in position...when he is in position he seems to make things happen but...

Chiefs Pantalones
10-17-2005, 09:24 AM
Bell is best as the 2nd ILB in a 3-4 scheme. The sooner DV and Gun realize this, the better.

Cave Johnson
10-17-2005, 09:33 AM
On the bright side, at least he's not on IR already.

TRR
10-17-2005, 09:40 AM
Bell is a little slow. He has trouble being in position...when he is in position he seems to make things happen but...

Bell and slow should never be in the same sentence. He's thinking more than reacting.

Chiefs Pantalones
10-17-2005, 09:43 AM
Bell isn't slow.

He's thinking. Once he gets a handle on the scheme, maybe he'll be fine. But IMO, he'd be better in a 3-4. He'd be doing more attacking, than covering.

jspchief
10-17-2005, 09:52 AM
I seem to remember a lot of posts taking shots at me because I thought pre-season snaps were important for Bell.

Where are all the "he's a stud veteran LB, he doesn't need to get to know the system in pre-season" posts?

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 10:02 AM
I seem to remember a lot of posts taking shots at me because I thought pre-season snaps were important for Bell.

Where are all the "he's a stud veteran LB, he doesn't need to get to know the system in pre-season" posts?

I'm not sure I took shots at you specifically, but I was one of the one's that felt the pre-season snaps weren't that important for Bell.

And I STILL don't think it was that big of deal.

The reason Bell is struggling is the same reason our DB's are struggling - the scheme SUCKS.

I spent the offseason bitching about Bell being marginalized as a situational pass rusher as a 4-3 OLB. I had NO IDEA that Gunther would do the one thing worse that what I feared - Bell trying to cover in the passing game instead of rushing the QB.

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 10:04 AM
DJ has been a no show? Do you even watch the games?

Derrick Johnson has 18 solo tackles in the last 2 games. He's 20th in the league in total tackles, and 11 of the guys ahead of him have played an extra game. You call that "no show"?

When you consider that teams don't run against us because it's so easy to pass, it's a miracle that we hear our LBs names as often as we do.

Derrick Johnson's pass coverage has been BEYOND horrible.

jspchief
10-17-2005, 10:15 AM
Derrick Johnson's pass coverage has been BEYOND horrible.I don't agree with that. DJ bit on play fakes a lot in the first few games, but has been getting better. There are very few pass plays that have gone his way the last few weeks. Same with Bell. The plays just aren't coming to their zones very often.

The gaps in the zone have been mostly NB and safety failures.

DJ is a rookie and has made some rookie mistakes (and will continue to). But to say he's been a "no-show" for the last month is a load of crap. Him and Mitchell have been neck and neck for most productive defensive player on the field for most of those games. We haven't had a LB that's produced at his level since Donnie Edwards (insert "getting dragged downfield" blast here). And they aren't 8 yards downfield Mazlowski tackles, he's been disruptive at the line of scrimmage on run plays and occasionally when Gunther releases his testicles.

bringbackmarty
10-17-2005, 10:28 AM
I think Bell has looked -
1. Slow
2. Lost
3. Both of these things at the same time even.
I also agree that it seems like they are utilizing him differently than I had envisioned. I would like to see him playing downhill more, and playing less coverage, unless he is covering a real slow fullback or tight end. I know we don't have a choice, and have to have him on the field against faster more agile players sometimes, but I would rather put him running a straight line between point a and "b".

Things I have not seen bell look like yet.
1. The dude is anything but short, or small. He looks huge in person at the games. He looks way ****in taller than 6'1", and he looks wide.
2. The dude is no human missile. He may play with reckless abandon and lead with his head when he tackles, but a missile is sleek, and a missile is fast, and if you are an american missile, you nearly always hit your target. Bell is niether sleek, nor fast, he is however, explosive, and is capable of making plays due to his good acceleration\first step\and incredible upper body strength,all of which enable him to push past the l.o.s., and be disruptive.

all that said.
I have seen with my own eyes more than once this season, bell shoot the gap, and either completely flatten a lead blocker, or the ball carrier, and it was a beautiful thing. (Like when my son was born, or when I got married, you know it made me feel all warm inside, like I drank some good whiskey.) He just needs to do it more often, and not be on the field when there is going to be max protection, or
obvious passing downs, or anytime we face the Eagles...At this point, I would say he is a bust, but there is hope with him, as well as an upside, plus even though we are playing like shit as a team, the team hasn't quit on itself, so there's a chance that he will level off statistically with a few big games. Hopefully our coaches are learning as much or more than he is, about our sytem, and how it really works, and how to gameplan using it.

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 10:35 AM
I don't agree with that. DJ bit on play fakes a lot in the first few games, but has been getting better. There are very few pass plays that have gone his way the last few weeks. Same with Bell. The plays just aren't coming to their zones very often.

The gaps in the zone have been mostly NB and safety failures.

DJ is a rookie and has made some rookie mistakes (and will continue to). But to say he's been a "no-show" for the last month is a load of crap. Him and Mitchell have been neck and neck for most productive defensive player on the field for most of those games. We haven't had a LB that's produced at his level since Donnie Edwards (insert "getting dragged downfield" blast here). And they aren't 8 yards downfield Mazlowski tackles, he's been disruptive at the line of scrimmage on run plays and occasionally when Gunther releases his testicles.

I counted at least 6 times in the Philly game where DJ vacated his zone and Terrell Owens was open underneath the CB. The fact that DJ's job was to man that zone was Gunther's fault, not DJ's, but he's got to know better than to just let a WR run by him while never taking his eyes off the offensive backfield...they're running a zone defense after all.

I didn't intend to agree with the notion that he's been a no-show. I also don't agree that he's been a RoTY candidate either. I fall somewhere in between. He's been "okay" and has alot of room to improve.

BTW, I'm firmly convinced that Mitchell has single-handedly lifted our run defense to "respectable" status. Our defensive line was again pretty bad yesterday.

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 10:43 AM
he's a playing a read-and-react scheme at the line of scrimmage...he never rushes all out, and he frequently drops into coverage...he looks lost and slow

I blame Gun as much as Bell, though Bell hasn't impressed me at all.I think Bell doesn't want to get hurt in his first 4 preseason games.

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 10:43 AM
I'm willing to give him a few more weeks. Remember, he didn't play but a few snaps in the preseason, so he's behind in that aspect. I still don't know if he's 100%. He looks very slow out there. But, I think he'll be fine with a couple more weeks under his belt.I still can't figure out why?