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View Full Version : What's the best way to beat a 3-4 defense?


Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 09:51 AM
I saw in another post that Miami uses a 3-4 defense, and they are very good against the run. So what are some of the advantages and disadvantages of the 3-4 defense?

-Tigermoose (who runs a 3-4 Chiefs defense on Madden that works very well!)

Chiefs Pantalones
10-17-2005, 09:54 AM
Welcome to the BB, Tigermoose.

Nice name, by the way.

Bowser
10-17-2005, 09:57 AM
I saw in another post that Miami uses a 3-4 defense, and they are very good against the run. So what are some of the advantages and disadvantages of the 3-4 defense?

-Tigermoose (who runs a 3-4 Chiefs defense on Madden that works very well!)

My first guess would be power running game, right up the gut. After that, a lot of seam passes to your tight end for big gainers. Kinda the stuff you would do against a Cover 2 defense.

Chiefnj
10-17-2005, 09:59 AM
When is the last time the Chiefs lost to a 3-4 team?

Bowser
10-17-2005, 10:00 AM
When is the last time the Chiefs lost to a 3-4 team?

Denver?

Rain Man
10-17-2005, 10:04 AM
I was surprised to hear one of the announcers say the other day that a 3-4 is better against the run. Logic would tell me that it would be worse on runs up the middle, because you're matching up 3 300-lb. linemen against 1 300-lb. linemen and a couple of linebackers, rather than 2 300-lbs. linemen. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but if I had Waters, Wiegman, and Shields going up against one NT and two LBs, I'd be hammering RBs up the middle nonstop.

tyton75
10-17-2005, 10:08 AM
Depends on the personnel, but one would think; a running back like Okoye would decimate a 3-4... However, it might be a very difficult matchup for our current style of offense

3-4's have to be more aggressive to stop the run, so play action and misdirection stuff is usually effective

Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 10:44 AM
My first guess would be power running game, right up the gut. After that, a lot of seam passes to your tight end for big gainers. Kinda the stuff you would do against a Cover 2 defense.

I would agree with your power running game philosophy. I'll add to that that I think counter plays might be more effective because it allows our linemen to position themselves better on faster linebackers. I think cut back running could be effective.

I agree that we need to utilize Gonzalez in the middle with the play action pass, to keep the linebackers guessing.

Amnorix
10-17-2005, 10:45 AM
I was surprised to hear one of the announcers say the other day that a 3-4 is better against the run. Logic would tell me that it would be worse on runs up the middle, because you're matching up 3 300-lb. linemen against 1 300-lb. linemen and a couple of linebackers, rather than 2 300-lbs. linemen. I'm sure it's more complicated than that, but if I had Waters, Wiegman, and Shields going up against one NT and two LBs, I'd be hammering RBs up the middle nonstop.

Usually the NG in a 3-4 is alot more than 300. 325 or 340 doesn't sound like "alot more", but it can be.

Patriots -- Vince Wilfork - 325 lbs.
Chargers -- Jamal Williams -- 348 lbs.
Steelers -- Hampton - 328 lbs.

etc.

Remember, also, that in the 3-4 usually your 2 OLBs will be heavier than the 2 OLBs in a 4-3. The DE's in the 3-4 will be heavier than the DEs in a 4-3.

We're talking just 10 lbs here or there, but just in general:

1. the Nose Guard in a 3-4 will outweigh the 2 DTs in a 4-3. Not always, but "usually".

2. The two DEs in a 3-4 will outweigh the 2 DEs in a 4-3. Usually by about 10 or so pounds. 4-3 DEs are usually around 290, whereas they're often 300+ in a 3-4.

3. The linebackers are usually a little bigger/slower in a 3-4 than in a 4-3.

As a result, oftentimes 3-4s are susceptible to fast TEs, as a slower package of LBs won't match up well to a fast and athletic TE.

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 10:57 AM
The surest way to beat a 3-4 is to create mismatches on the line so that you have OL on their ILB's. Do that and you'll win every time.

See last year vs. B-more.

Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 11:01 AM
The surest way to beat a 3-4 is to create mismatches on the line so that you have OL on their ILB's. Do that and you'll win every time.

How do you do that? This is good Madden info as well as interesting in rergards to the Chiefs vs Miami.

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 11:17 AM
How do you do that? This is good Madden info as well as interesting in rergards to the Chiefs vs Miami.

It's not as simple as it sounds, because it requires superior players at certain positions.

For us, we have Jason Dunn and TRich, who can occupy DE's while a guy like Waters can get upfield.

The other thing to do is use trap or pull blocking and move linemen around...

HolmeZz
10-17-2005, 11:32 AM
When is the last time the Chiefs lost to a 3-4 team?

New England or San Diego.

Extra Point
10-17-2005, 11:32 AM
Traps with LJ, off-tackle & sweep runs, dump passes in the flat to Priest. Crossing slot and WR, hitting the slot on the sideline. Drag pattern for Tony G lined up on left side, pulling Shields for a moving pocket. Not all at the same time, of course...

Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 11:34 AM
It's not as simple as it sounds, because it requires superior players at certain positions.

For us, we have Jason Dunn and TRich, who can occupy DE's while a guy like Waters can get upfield.

The other thing to do is use trap or pull blocking and move linemen around...

Should we go more with the 2 TE set to outlfank the defense and put more pressure on the linebackers in the middle?

DRU
10-17-2005, 12:23 PM
What's the best way to beat a 3-4 defense?

score touchdown's

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 12:36 PM
Should we go more with the 2 TE set to outlfank the defense and put more pressure on the linebackers in the middle?

I don't think going more 2 TE is going to help as much as just keeping things balanced.

Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 12:38 PM
score touchdown's

Scoring touchdowns is the result of beating the 3-4 defense. We are looking for the cause of the touchdown.

You are illogically placing the desired goal as the causation. We are looking for the act or agency that produces the effect of a touchdown.

Step 1: What is the desired goal? (beating the defense, ie scoring touchdowns, winning)

Step 2: How do I go about achieving this goal. (That is what we are questioning)

Step 3: Do I wish to achieve this goal and will I do what is necessary from Step 2 to achieve this goal? (Yes..hopefully)

DRU
10-17-2005, 12:45 PM
Scoring touchdowns is the result of beating the 3-4 defense. We are looking for the cause of the touchdown.

In that case...play Chiefs football. As long as they do that we won't have a problem.

Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 12:52 PM
In that case...play Chiefs football. As long as they do that we won't have a problem.

Intriguing. What is Chiefs football? :banghead:

DRU
10-17-2005, 01:03 PM
You know. The way they play when a Chiefs fan can say "Now THAT's Chiefs football!"

Tigermoose
10-17-2005, 01:07 PM
You know. The way they play when a Chiefs fan can say "Now THAT's Chiefs football!"

Ah. I think I'm getting it now. So when the Chiefs go 8-8 and miss the playoffs we can say, "ahh...Now THAT's Chiefs football!"

Unfortunately, that's what I think these days when I hear "Chiefs football."

kpic
10-17-2005, 01:35 PM
Ah. I think I'm getting it now. So when the Chiefs go 8-8 and miss the playoffs we can say, "ahh...Now THAT's Chiefs football!"

Unfortunately, that's what I think these days when I hear "Chiefs football."


Ughh....that hurts especially when you see it typed directly on your monitor. It's like you know it is the truth you just can't bring yourself to say it.

BTW; you're missing Step #4: Repeat steps 1-3 for next weeks game.

Step #4 is what apparently the Chiefs coaching staff have difficulty with.

DRU
10-17-2005, 01:46 PM
I think we all know what I'm talking about here. First drive of the Jets game. First half of the Eagles game. Colts last year (offensively), Falcons last year, etc. Inconsistency is the Chiefs only problem IMO. We've got an outstanding football team. They just never seem to put all pieces together for an entire season. Those example drives are when I say "THAT's Chiefs football."

When they start abandoning the running game, getting cute with reverses and trying to run pass plays that take 5 seconds to develop when the line is only giving green 2 seconds is NOT Chiefs football.

I don't see a defense in the league that can contain the Chiefs offense when they're playing the way we all know they can. 3-4, 4-3, whatever. If the offense is playing Chiefs football we'll take care of that particular defense. If not, we won't.

Our defense isn't a problem in my mind any longer. We can hold teams to less than 30 points. Thing is, we've evened that part out now with our offense. If we're not gonna score 30 points a game any more then it doesn't matter if our defense holds them below that.

I think the coaches try to hard to out-think the other guys sometimes. If they just go out and run our offense the way it's been run for 4 years now (where are the screens!? finally ran some yesterday and look what happened) then we'll be fine against the 3-4.

NJ Chief Fan
10-17-2005, 01:55 PM
looks like tampa didnt struggle against that 3-4 in the run game...and there was no cadillac truck