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View Full Version : I chatted with this "Indian" guy while standin in line at the pisser yesterday!


cmh6476
10-17-2005, 11:10 AM
I posted some of the conversation at FFT, and just thought I'd share them here:

well, he wasn't really Indian. But he had on the beads and the clothes and stuff, so I asked him, "so umm, are you of native american heritage?"

I was kinda stumped at first, on how to approach the conversation :unsure:


But then he was like, "no, I'm not. But a bunch of my friends are and they are down here today protesting and I am trying to find them."

So we started talking, and I asked if they were offended by the names of the teams. He mentioned not so much the Chiefs but with the redskins. And I kinda agreed and mentioned the fact that the term redskin is actually derogative.

So then I started going on about the Chiefs and where they got their name. The Chiefs were actually named (when they moved from Dallas) for the mayor of KC (could have been former mayor), Roe Bartle. They called Mayor Bartle "Chief", because of what he had done to honor the native americans and his leadership skills. I don't know all the specifics, just have heard the story.


But to pay tribute to the mayor, who had paid tribute to the native americans during his lifetime, the city decided to call the team the Chiefs.

The Indian looking guy said the use of the word "Chief" really wasnt an issue, but the tomahawk chop and guys dressed up in headbands with gold and red paint was a disgrace to their culture.

Then we started going on about how most people don't think of any of it as offesnive, just team names and something they have grown accustomed to with the major sports. I don't think anyone means any harm, it's just a mascot of a sports franchise.

I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges. :(

What's weird is I'm probably more native american than the guy I was talking to was. I think my great-grandfather's dad was full-blooded native american, but my great-grandfather was adopted by a different faimly. or something like that :unsure:

It still seems weird to me that native americans would be offended by the use of Mascots. I guess you can't really relate or understand it, because you are not one. But I didn't see what the big deal was :unsure:

http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=174101

NewChief
10-17-2005, 11:12 AM
Hold on...so this guy, who isn't NA, was dressed up in the "offensive" stereotypes that the NA protestors were complaining about. Does that make any sense? Isn't this the very thing they're mad about? White people dressing up like NAs?

cmh6476
10-17-2005, 11:14 AM
Hold on...so this guy, who isn't NA, was dressed up in the "offensive" stereotypes that the NA protestors were complaining about. Does that make any sense? Isn't this the very thing they're mad about? White people dressing up like NAs?
But he is friends with them and actually understands their concerns. I guess :shrug:

Demonpenz
10-17-2005, 11:15 AM
sorry about that. I say some crazy shit when I am wasted

Braincase
10-17-2005, 11:17 AM
As someone of Skandinavian decent, I'm shocked and appalled at the state of the Minnesota Vikings...

Radar Chief
10-17-2005, 11:18 AM
I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture.

Yea, cause the Conquistadores were great humanitarians.

htismaqe
10-17-2005, 11:20 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=126471

Donger
10-17-2005, 11:20 AM
I thought that there was a rule about men speaking to each other in the bathroom?

NewChief
10-17-2005, 11:22 AM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=126471

He must have been talking to Deidre "White Man." Now I understand where Deidre's name comes from. It's kind of like Dances With Wolves...only much more obvious.

And your Indian name shall be....White Man!

Rain Man
10-17-2005, 11:24 AM
I thought that there was a rule about men speaking to each other in the bathroom?


In the Native American culture, it's a sign of respect.

NewChief
10-17-2005, 11:25 AM
In the Native American culture, it's a sign of respect.

There you go again with your painful stereotypes and misinterpretation of their culture. This is the kind of stuff that stunts a young brave's self esteem and makes him turn to firewater.

cmh6476
10-17-2005, 11:27 AM
I thought that there was a rule about men speaking to each other in the bathroom?
i addressed this issue in the thread at fft. We were outside in the parking lot, in line for a porta-potty :(

HolmeZz
10-17-2005, 11:28 AM
It was prolly Ryan McRed Corn.

jspchief
10-17-2005, 11:31 AM
Interesting that the stadium never played the Tomahawk Chop music yesterday. They don't play it much anymore anyway, but usually at least once per game. Yesterday, the crowd started it on their own without the stadium music.

ArrowheadLouder
10-17-2005, 11:33 AM
I thought the stadium was pretty loud yesterday, but I'd give it a 7 out of 10

DeepSouth
10-17-2005, 11:36 AM
""I did mention that it was kind of sad that when the Spaniards invaded Mexico, they blended with the natives on the land and still incorporate some of those same customs and heritage in today's culture. However, here in the US we just basically murdered all the natives and sent them to refuges.""

Yeah, now they are all trying to wade across the rio grande to get into the states because some of those customs has made Mexico one of the most corrupt third-world countries in the world.

jspchief
10-17-2005, 11:39 AM
I thought the stadium was pretty loud yesterday, but I'd give it a 7 out of 10It got rockin' on that one drive late in the game. Reminded me what Arrowhead used to be like. Amazing what production from the defensive players does for the crowd. It's a two way street, and the players finally gave as much as they got.

greg63
10-17-2005, 11:43 AM
Well, speaking as the Heinz 57 that I am I feel that persons making any reference to any culture in any context should be severely punished by the PC Police! :p :D

Lonewolf Ed
10-17-2005, 11:43 AM
I thought that there was a rule about men speaking to each other in the bathroom?

Years ago at Arrowhead, I was at the far right end of the trough doing my stuff when some dude did an end-around and pushed up to me on my right and started doing his stuff. I am usually silent in the bathroom, but in this case, I had to say, "Hey, could you PLEASE stop pissing on my boot?" Then I vowed to myself if this same guy follows me to the sink and starts washing his hands under the same faucet as I am, I will kick his ass. However, he did not wash his hands; he just lit up a cigarette and left through the entry door, not the exit. :cuss:

morphius
10-17-2005, 11:45 AM
One of the funny things was that the old head dress and outfit that the old Chiefs maskot wore was designed with help from the same indian council that is protesting it now.

morphius
10-17-2005, 11:46 AM
Years ago at Arrowhead, I was at the far right end of the trough doing my stuff when some dude did an end-around and pushed up to me on my right and started doing his stuff. I am usually silent in the bathroom, but in this case, I had to say, "Hey, could you PLEASE stop pissing on my boot?" Then I vowed to myself if this same guy follows me to the sink and starts washing his hands under the same faucet as I am, I will kick his ass. However, he did not wash his hands; he just lit up a cigarette and left through the entry door, not the exit. :cuss:
Sounds like he was unimpressed, since he obviously was a back door man.

mcan
10-17-2005, 11:57 AM
A few years back, a guy who called himself "Falstaff" came on here and started this argument: "The Chiefs are racist." In his thread, he got blasted over and over. This was my reply:

I know those guys are long gone, but for what it's worth...

Let's start with the term "racist":
It's not racist to like the Chiefs or the Braves or to LIKE anything else. It's racist when you HATE some one because of their race. Stereotyping is something totally different altogether. Racists believe they would be better off if the other "race(s)" would go away or die off. Surely you would agree that the Chiefs or any other sports organization is in no way supporting this belief. Racists are prone to violence, not football.

Next up... Stereotyping:
Let's start off with a lesson about what makes up "bad" stereotypes. Take trailer parks for example. Two major stereotypes exist. One, low income white people that listen to ACDC and Lynard Skynard live there. That is clearly a derogatory stereotype. Two, that trailer parks are frequently hit by tornadoes. (not derogatory)
The stereotype of an indian having a headress and wearing warpaint and hanging around with other indians in a tribe and one of them being the chief is not derogatory. It's just a portrayal. The stereotype of indians prancing around a fire going "woo woo" and scalping innocent people, now that is derogatory. So your beef isn't with sports franchises it's with old Hollywood movies.

Next, a lesson in the English language and the importance of context.

Several times in this thread you have made known your frustrations with us on the board taking your comments out of context. So you know the importance of what is said isn't as important as WHY it is said. Moreover, in pro sports, the indian names and mascots etc... are used in the context of comradary and sportsmanship, not to mach or poke fun at the american indians or their culture. To take it that way is as bad as us taking your well meant comments out of context.

Also, I see your point about some people being offended anyway. I am not so biggoted that I just say that it's their problem. Out of respect for you, I would not go to your house for dinner and wear my Chiefs sweater if I knew you felt this way. The same way I will only do the "chop" at Chiefs games in the context of football and sports. I would NEVER drive by a reservation and do the "chop" That would be totally inapropriate and VERY offensive. The same way, if I was at the Vietnam Memorial I would not sing ... and the home of the CHIEFS. That would be very offensive to the men who died for my freedom. However, I will screem CHIEFS at the top of my lungs at Arrowhead stadium because, I am glad that in this country, I can go root for these guys instead of getting up in the morning to throw rocks at the tanks in my front yard.

By the way, there are no teams called the "white men" or the "black guys" because those ethnic groups are too wide spread to be powerful symbols. If white people travled together in small, tight knit groups than you would probably see those titles in sports too. Consider: gypsies, nomads, pirates, indians, cowboys, outlaws, sodiers, infantry, etc... all of these are smaller groups and all would be/are fine names for teams except maybe gypsies: sounds too feminine, but you get the point.

ChiefsFanatik88
10-17-2005, 12:03 PM
I posted some of the conversation at FFT, and just thought I'd share them here:



http://www.fftodayforums.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=174101

You know, one way to make all this right would be to give back to the Native Americans. In my will, it states that all of my personal belongings and possessions {everything} will be given to the Kansa tribe. I feel that I should give back to them what was theirs before it was mine

Brock
10-17-2005, 12:15 PM
You know, one way to make all this right would be to give back to the Native Americans. In my will, it states that all of my personal belongings and possessions {everything} will be given to the Kansa tribe. I feel that I should give back to them what was theirs before it was mine

I'm sure they will appreciate the Sega Dreamcast.

kpic
10-17-2005, 12:31 PM
"I chatted with this "Indian" guy while standin in line at the pisser yesterday!"

Maybe he thought he was in "international" waters!





Sorry, coudn't resist throwing in an old topic mixed in with some lavatory humor.......

go bowe
10-17-2005, 12:50 PM
There you go again with your painful stereotypes and misinterpretation of their culture. This is the kind of stuff that stunts a young brave's self esteem and makes him turn to firewater.firewater? *perk*

Fairplay
10-17-2005, 01:32 PM
The Injuns are lucky they get to have casinos and everything.

KChiefsQT
10-17-2005, 01:38 PM
When I first opened this I was reading" I chanted with this Indian guy at the pisser. My first response was going to be, "Sweeeeeeeeeet"

Then I read on.....
and my second response is, how many beers did u consume before taking that long of a piss????? :p

KChiefsQT
10-17-2005, 01:39 PM
You know, one way to make all this right would be to give back to the Native Americans. In my will, it states that all of my personal belongings and possessions {everything} will be given to the Kansa tribe. I feel that I should give back to them what was theirs before it was mine
Oooo your children are going to be pissssssed!!!... unless all you have is debt. :hmmm:

HarryParatestes
10-17-2005, 02:23 PM
Hey..I can see why Native Americans would be pissed at the "ethnic" names of sports teams!


I wouldn't want my heritage associted with Strength, Speed, Agility, Intelligence, Toughness or Physical Abilities beyond that of the average man.

What an insult! :harumph:

BigRedChief
10-17-2005, 02:32 PM
They were not there to protest the Chiefs.

The Indian nation has decided to picket every Redskins game they ever play from now on until they change their name.

From a poster over at the Coalition:
I am a Proud American Indian and at the last meeting of Tribal leaders it was determined that there was to be a protest at every Redskins game. The name Chiefs was brought up and determined to be a name of Dignity.

But the name Redskins is Totlally out of line and has been protested for many decades it is just the last few years that the media has picked up on the protest's.

Protesting legally is American as American can be and also voicing your opinion about the protest are encouraged by the constitution.

greg63
10-17-2005, 02:36 PM
They were not there to protest the Chiefs.

The Indian nation has decided to picket every Redskins game they ever play from now on until they change their name.

From a poster over at the Coalition:
I am a Proud American Indian and at the last meeting of Tribal leaders it was determined that there was to be a protest at every Redskins game. The name Chiefs was brought up and determined to be a name of Dignity.

But the name Redskins is Totlally out of line and has been protested for many decades it is just the last few years that the media has picked up on the protest's.

Protesting legally is American as American can be and also voicing your opinion about the protest are encouraged by the constitution.

Yup!

BigRedChief
10-17-2005, 02:40 PM
Another person posted this:

If I'm not mistaken Redskin is a reference to the foreskin of native American males in the West during the late 1800s.

Sinse a scalp could be from a man, women or child it was required to bring foreskin of proof of killing a Native American male for reward.

I'd take offense to that too.


Any history buffs know if this is true? This is where the "Redskins" name comes from?

Brock
10-17-2005, 02:40 PM
They were not there to protest the Chiefs.


http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=126471

BigRedChief
10-17-2005, 02:44 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=126471

I need to get out more.:(

Paul Palmer
10-17-2005, 02:50 PM
The Injuns are lucky they get to have casinos and everything.

Such comments are assinine and indicative of the fair share of idiot hillbillies who are Chiefs fans...
Look up the law to see why certain Indian tribes have casinos...

And about the "agility" honoring of Chiefs...anyone who knows that nearly all of the eastern counties in Kansas are named after tribes and how and why most of those tribes no longer reside there should check it...So now they are being honored?? Those chiefs back in the day got screwed...so now the nickname is some sort of honoring of their descendants?? Uhhhh...

I always root for the Chiefs (being raised in KC) but changing the name would be fine with me...

How about "Beef Lords" or "The Nationalists" or "Rushers" or "Sunflower Farmers" or .....

Dartgod
10-17-2005, 02:56 PM
I always root for the Chiefs (being raised in KC) but changing the name would be fine with me...

How about "Beef Lords" or "The Nationalists" or "Rushers" or "Sunflower Farmers" or .....
Or we could just name them after you and call them "The Flaming Poo Bags".

jspchief
10-17-2005, 02:56 PM
I'm not going to claim that the team is "honoring" native Americans by choosing the name Chiefs.

But I don't see how it could be considered insulting or derogatory.

Inspector
10-17-2005, 03:03 PM
Some people have their radar on all the time just itching for something to be disgusted about.

My family has never had a problem with any of this and there are many full or partial native Americans amongst us.

Geez, if this is really that serious of an issue to someone, then I'd be jealous cause that tells me they don't have much to gripe about.

Chiefnj
10-17-2005, 03:07 PM
Isn't it offensive for a non-American Indian to dress up in Indian costume?

Inspector
10-17-2005, 03:10 PM
Isn't it offensive for a non-American Indian to dress up in Indian costume?


I know Casper the ghost was a little ticked off at my 8 year old neice last year during halloween....

Chiefnj
10-17-2005, 03:12 PM
I know Casper the ghost was a little ticked off at my 8 year old neice last year during halloween....

Your neice isn't going to be laughing when a bunch of spooks, oops that isn't a politically correct term for ghosts, bunch of poltergeists protest her house every halloween.

ChiefsFanatik88
10-17-2005, 03:41 PM
Oooo your children are going to be pissssssed!!!... unless all you have is debt. :hmmm:


Actually, I don't have either. Thank you very much.

DeepSouth
10-17-2005, 04:09 PM
Such comments are assinine and indicative of the fair share of idiot hillbillies who are Chiefs fans...
Look up the law to see why certain Indian tribes have casinos...

And about the "agility" honoring of Chiefs...anyone who knows that nearly all of the eastern counties in Kansas are named after tribes and how and why most of those tribes no longer reside there should check it...So now they are being honored?? Those chiefs back in the day got screwed...so now the nickname is some sort of honoring of their descendants?? Uhhhh...

I always root for the Chiefs (being raised in KC) but changing the name would be fine with me...

How about "Beef Lords" or "The Nationalists" or "Rushers" or "Sunflower Farmers" or .....

Are you a card carrying member of the ACLU ?

tk13
10-17-2005, 04:14 PM
The Kansas City Beef Lords. Now there's a name.

DeepSouth
10-17-2005, 04:21 PM
The Kansas City Beef Lords. Now there's a name.
How about the Kansas City Outlaws in honor of "The OutLaw Jose Wales".

He hated everyone from Kansas so that would be OK with me.

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2005, 05:07 PM
I wonder if clergymen are offended by the Saints?

Count Alex's Losses
10-17-2005, 05:08 PM
The Kansas City Beef Lords. Now there's a name.

Hell, just change it to the Chefs.

A non-agressive/non-threatening team name would be refreshing. It might usher in a new era.

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2005, 05:11 PM
I want to name the arena team the Cowtippers. That would rock.

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 05:12 PM
As someone of Skandinavian decent, I'm shocked and appalled at the state of the Minnesota Vikings...I am completely offended by the Oklahoma Sooners.

How dare they ridicule my white trash heritage.

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 05:15 PM
Such comments are assinine and indicative of the fair share of idiot hillbillies who are Chiefs fans...
Look up the law to see why certain Indian tribes have casinos...

And about the "agility" honoring of Chiefs...anyone who knows that nearly all of the eastern counties in Kansas are named after tribes and how and why most of those tribes no longer reside there should check it...So now they are being honored?? Those chiefs back in the day got screwed...so now the nickname is some sort of honoring of their descendants?? Uhhhh...

I always root for the Chiefs (being raised in KC) but changing the name would be fine with me...

How about "Beef Lords" or "The Nationalists" or "Rushers" or "Sunflower Farmers" or .....No, fug all that, you brought the shit up, you provide the link or info.

Thig Lyfe
10-17-2005, 05:17 PM
nearly all of the eastern counties in Kansas are named after tribes

Ah yes. The Johnson tribe.

HolmeZz
10-17-2005, 05:40 PM
Such comments are assinine and indicative of the fair share of idiot hillbillies who are Chiefs fans...
Look up the law to see why certain Indian tribes have casinos...

a) He was joking

b) If you're arguing about stereotypes and names that some could be offensive, are you really helping your case by calling people hillbillies? No, you're just being hypocritical.

KCChiefsMan
10-17-2005, 05:58 PM
"as a patriot to my country I am going to go protest at New Englands' next game." -vietnam vet

"as a queer I am very offended at Green Bay's team name, for a bunch of male neanderthalls (sp?) hitting each other and to call themselves the packers, uh-huh girl." -the gang from queer eye

"as a redneck good ole boy, that them there Dallas' team name really pisses me the hell off." -good ole boy

"as a respectable man who wears white socks, it really bothers me that those bastards are going to the world series." -next door neighbor

"me and my identical twin are extremely frustrated by that baseball team in Minnesota" -Mary Kate & Ashley

"as a bad actor, I don't like the Texas Rangers because their name offends me" Walker Texas Ranger




see Natives are the only ones upset by the the team names

DTLB58
10-17-2005, 06:10 PM
Don't forget also, that the name "Chiefs" was voted in by the public. Not sure if this was a city, state or county vote but it was put out there with 3 or 4 other choices.

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 06:16 PM
Ah yes. The Johnson tribe.This might explain why we draft Johnson's #1 though, just a guess. :shrug:

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 06:17 PM
While there at it, they should rename Shawnee-Mission.

DTLB58
10-17-2005, 06:20 PM
So then I started going on about the Chiefs and where they got their name. The Chiefs were actually named (when they moved from Dallas) for the mayor of KC (could have been former mayor), Roe Bartle. They called Mayor Bartle "Chief", because of what he had done to honor the native americans and his leadership skills. I don't know all the specifics, just have heard the story.

The name, "Chiefs" was selected by a fan contest, and is derived from the then-Mayor of Kansas City, H. Roe Bartle. Bartle was the founder of the Native American-based honor society known as The Tribe of Mic-O-Say within the Boy Scouts of America organization, which earned him the nickname, "The Chief," and was instumental in persuading Lamar Hunt to move his team to Mid-America. It is said that Hunt actually considered keeping the team name as it was, and playing as the "Kansas City Texans."[1]

The rest of this article can be read here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_City_Chiefs

Rain Man
10-17-2005, 06:28 PM
If we have to change the name, I don't want to do it more than once, so let's pick something that won't offend anybody.

I propose the Kansas City Prominent Naturally Occurring Landmarks.

Paul Palmer
10-17-2005, 06:47 PM
I am completely offended by the Oklahoma Sooners.

How dare they ridicule my white trash heritage.

Okay...now for some more....

Sooners were the whites (you have that right) who were both native-born and a few immigrants too who cheated the land run process set out by Congress in order to gain claims in the 1893 Olahoma Land Rush...so the university named their mascot after thieves...which goes over two times since Oklahoma was basically stolen in violation of tens of ratified US Indian treaties...

I am not sure if they then could be considered white trash or just thieves....

ANd.....
Chiefs and Saints do not have the quite the same history of persecution and theft etc. in the US of A ?

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!! Beat those talkin sea mammals!

HolmeZz
10-17-2005, 06:48 PM
If we have to change the name, I don't want to do it more than once, so let's pick something that won't offend anybody.

I propose the Kansas City Prominent Naturally Occurring Landmarks.

Ahh, the PNOLs. I'm down with that.

onescrewleftuntwisted
10-17-2005, 07:19 PM
fubar

Calcountry
10-17-2005, 07:48 PM
Okay...now for some more....

Sooners were the whites (you have that right) who were both native-born and a few immigrants too who cheated the land run process set out by Congress in order to gain claims in the 1893 Olahoma Land Rush...so the university named their mascot after thieves...which goes over two times since Oklahoma was basically stolen in violation of tens of ratified US Indian treaties...

I am not sure if they then could be considered white trash or just thieves....

ANd.....
Chiefs and Saints do not have the quite the same history of persecution and theft etc. in the US of A ?

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!! Beat those talkin sea mammals! Dammit Jim! I'm a doctor, not a historian.

Iowanian
10-17-2005, 09:28 PM
I just ate popped indian corn until I nearly popped.

I'm waiting for them to start protesting Vin Diesel movies.

Skip Towne
10-17-2005, 09:40 PM
Okay...now for some more....

Sooners were the whites (you have that right) who were both native-born and a few immigrants too who cheated the land run process set out by Congress in order to gain claims in the 1893 Olahoma Land Rush...so the university named their mascot after thieves...which goes over two times since Oklahoma was basically stolen in violation of tens of ratified US Indian treaties...

I am not sure if they then could be considered white trash or just thieves....

ANd.....
Chiefs and Saints do not have the quite the same history of persecution and theft etc. in the US of A ?

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!! Beat those talkin sea mammals!
So it would be correct to refer to OU as the Oklahoma white trash thieves? I'm down with that.

greg63
10-17-2005, 10:03 PM
I am completely offended by the Oklahoma Sooners.

How dare they ridicule my white trash heritage.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL