PDA

View Full Version : New Orleans Mayor Launches Attack Against the Saints Ownership...


Simplex3
10-19-2005, 10:00 PM
Man, just when you thought this guy couldn't be a bigger tool. He can't be concerned with saving his own citizens, but threaten to reduce the amount of money in his area and he goes nuts. :shake:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2197636

Nagin blasts Saints owner for trying to move team
Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS -- Mayor Ray Nagin disparaged Saints owner Tom Benson on Wednesday for working with San Antonio officials to permanently keep the NFL team in Texas.

The mayor's comments came after the departures of two top Saints executives who were supportive of keeping the Saints in Louisiana. Nagin is concerned that San Antonio officials said publicly that Benson is working with them to relocate the franchise to Texas.

"We want our Saints, we may not want the owner back," Nagin said while attending the reopening of Cafe Du Monde in the French Quarter.

"I'm ready to go to the NFL and to [commissioner Paul] Tagliabue and say, 'Give us the Cleveland plan,'" Nagin added, referring to the league awarding Cleveland an expansion team almost immediately after the Browns moved to Baltimore after the 1995 season. "Whatever the Saints want to do, you let them leave, but they can't take our logo, they can't take our name, and you give us a promise to give us a franchise when this city's back."

A Saints spokesman did not return a telephone call and e-mail seeking a response to Nagin's comments.

"For them to be openly talking to other cities about moving is disrespectful to the citizens of New Orleans, disrespectful to the Saints fans who have hung in with this franchise through 30-something years under very trying times," Nagin said.

The Saints joined the NFL in 1967. In 1986, Benson was part of an ownership group that bought the team to ensure it would stay in Louisiana. Benson eventually bought out other members of the group.

During Benson's ownership, the state of Louisiana has built him a new headquarters, including spending $6.75 million for an indoor practice field in 2003. The state also has paid for repeated improvements to the Louisiana Superdome at Benson's insistence during the past two decades.

On Monday night, Benson fired Arnold Fielkow, the team's top business executive since 2000. Fielkow had overseen a 36-game sellout streak at the Superdome and negotiated an unprecedented stadium lease that called for the state to pay Benson $187 million in direct subsidies over 10 years.

But Fielkow has said he believed the Saints needed to be leaders in New Orleans' rebuilding process after Hurricane Katrina and repeatedly praised Saints fans in Louisiana as the best and most loyal in the NFL. Fielkow has since said that stance led to his dismissal.

On Tuesday, Conrad Kowal, senior director of marketing and business development, also resigned.

Nagin called Benson's recent actions a "doggone shame."

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 10:02 PM
What a douchebag. He couldn't give two shits about the football team. He's a crook and has had his fingers in all the pies for years.

Pitt Gorilla
10-19-2005, 10:09 PM
Nope. Also, I've heard they are repairing the Superdome. Come, on, it's going to cost half of what a new stadium would cost just to patch it up.

KCChiefsFan88
10-19-2005, 10:12 PM
Doesn't the mayor have anything better to do than worry about where the Aints end up.

Let's see, rebuilding the city, finding the $$$ to continue to keep the city government and resources functioning, dealing with the mess that is the NOPD... just a few things the mayor might want to focus on, rather than fighting a lost cause.

The Aints were one foot out of New Orleans before the hurricane hit

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 10:14 PM
The bad part for Benson is that 24 of the 31 owners have to agree to the move. That maybe the hard part.

Simplex3
10-19-2005, 10:16 PM
The bad part for Benson is that 24 of the 31 owners have to agree to the move. That maybe the hard part.
How many are going to want to vote against it and risk being stuck where they are after a natural disaster? One thing about the NFL, they are a business and they aren't shy about it.

Phobia
10-19-2005, 10:17 PM
The bad part for Benson is that 24 of the 31 owners have to agree to the move. That maybe the hard part.

24 of 31 owners will agree to any move that puts another dollar in their collective pocket. Moving from NOLA will put more dollars in their pocket than forcing them back there. NOLA will never, EVER recover fully from that hurricane. Ever.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 10:26 PM
While I may agree with both of you the commissioner thinks otherwise and how he goes so does the other owners.

I think the bad publicity they get for this may influence their decision.

Phobia
10-19-2005, 10:34 PM
While I may agree with both of you the commissioner thinks otherwise and how he goes so does the other owners.

I think the bad publicity they get for this may influence their decision.

Bullshit. The NFL is above bad publicity. They're so wildly popular, it would take a dozen NOLA situations to put a dent into their ratings which is all they really care about.

Simplex3
10-19-2005, 10:35 PM
While I may agree with both of you the commissioner thinks otherwise and how he goes so does the other owners.

I think the bad publicity they get for this may influence their decision.

Press Release; from NFL Media Relations:

It has been determined that the New Orleans area won't be able to focus on or support an NFL franchise for a minimum of five years. During that time span the team would surely fold. In the best interest of the league and New Orleans we are going to move the Saints to {insert other city here}. We will look for ways to help New Orleans and we will put a team there as soon as it is possible.

Mojo Rising
10-19-2005, 10:37 PM
The Saints should move from NO but not to San Antonio. It is a small market town and has 2 close competitors already. They should head to LA.

NO can not afford to keep the Saints. Let them rebuild the city and re-enter the league in 10 years as the Saints again. The new will be allowed to choose a new name.

Benson is already close to passing off the team to his daughter as his health is similiar to Lamar's. They should somehow buy her out and let e new owner bid for the Saints franchise in LA.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 10:41 PM
Bullshit. The NFL is above bad publicity. They're so wildly popular, it would take a dozen NOLA situations to put a dent into their ratings which is all they really care about.

I don't think the average fan really cares one way or another but I can't see 23 owners giving Benson any kind of yes vote. From what I have read the thinking maybe to get Benson out as the owner and then possibly allow them to move. Alot of owners believe just like the commish that San Antonio is not a very viable market. Especially since they couldn't sell out their very first NFL game.

Simplex3
10-19-2005, 10:43 PM
Especially since they couldn't sell out their very first NFL game.
The Saints play there. They haven't had an NFL game yet.

Coach
10-19-2005, 10:46 PM
I don't think the average fan really cares one way or another but I can't see 23 owners giving Benson any kind of yes vote. From what I have read the thinking maybe to get Benson out as the owner and then possibly allow them to move. Alot of owners believe just like the commish that San Antonio is not a very viable market. Especially since they couldn't sell out their very first NFL game.

I agree. I don't think San Antonio is the answer as well, since there are the Cowboys and the Texans there.

I also believe LA is not the answer there as well. Maybe the NFL should go with a state that does NOT have a NFL team?

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 10:47 PM
The Saints play there. They haven't had an NFL game yet.

Is that a joke or are you serious? The Saints played the Bills in San Antonio and only sold 58,688 tickets. The AlamoDome holds 65,000.

They did sell out last week against the Falcons.

DaFace
10-19-2005, 10:52 PM
The Saints played the Bills in San Antonio and only sold 58,688 tickets. The AlamoDome holds 65,000.


I'm not convinced San Antionio is a good place for an NFL team either, but they only had two weeks to sell tickets for that game. That's a pretty worthless benchmark for how well they'll do in the future.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 10:53 PM
I'm not convinced San Antionio is a good place for an NFL team either, but they only had two weeks to sell tickets for that game. That's a pretty worthless benchmark for how well they'll do in the future.

Fair enough. Let me ask you this. If the NFL moved the Miami game to KC this week would it sell out? I would bet money that it would and probably less than 24-48 hrs.

StcChief
10-19-2005, 10:54 PM
NFW. The insurance companies will be weazeling out of paying / delaying claim payments.

Team has no obligation to a town without a stadium or a market to play in.

DaFace
10-19-2005, 10:58 PM
Fair enough. Let me ask you this. If the NFL moved the Miami game to KC this week would it sell out? I would bet money that it would and probably less than 24-48 hrs.

Probably so, but KC has a VERY well established fan base. Suppose there were no team in Kansas City (not a very pretty thought, but bear with me). If the Saints moved here, do you think they would immediately sell out every game? Perhaps, but I have my doubts. It takes time to build a solid fan base.

On top of that, it might also be different if the Saints actually were San Antionio's team. Right now, they're just a visiting team. If they were the San Antonio (whatevers), more people might start going to games because there's a long-term commitment there.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:05 PM
Probably so, but KC has a VERY well established fan base. Suppose there were no team in Kansas City (not a very pretty thought, but bear with me). If the Saints moved here, do you think they would immediately sell out every game? Perhaps, but I have my doubts. It takes time to build a solid fan base.

On top of that, it might also be different if the Saints actually were San Antionio's team. Right now, they're just a visiting team. If they were the San Antonio (whatevers), more people might start going to games because there's a long-term commitment there.

If KC and the people of this city/area really wanted an NFL team they would come out in force to show the NFL that this is the place they need to be.

That is why I am skeptical of an NHL or NBA team coming in because when those leagues have come in to play games, albeit exhibition games, they haven't sold out.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:08 PM
Is that a joke or are you serious? The Saints played the Bills in San Antonio and only sold 58,688 tickets. The AlamoDome holds 65,000.

They did sell out last week against the Falcons.
Two weeks notice and half the season ticket holders don't even have homes?

Hardly a realistic measuring stick.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:09 PM
Fair enough. Let me ask you this. If the NFL moved the Miami game to KC this week would it sell out? I would bet money that it would and probably less than 24-48 hrs.
Do all the Miami and KC fans still have their homes, cars, families, and property in your scenario?

tk13
10-19-2005, 11:11 PM
I don't know, I don't think all that highly of Benson either, so I have a hard time sympathizing for the guy. Nagin knows he's gonna lose this battle. And like everybody else who is a threat to move he seems to think he can just go after the "Cleveland plan", I don't think it's gonna work that way. I do think it's kinda ironic how when it's another team wanting to move "it's just the business that is the NFL", but if Lamar and Carl were to move the Chiefs it'd be stabbing the fans in the back...

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:11 PM
Do all the Miami and KC fans still have their homes, cars, families, and property in your scenario?

I am talking about the game in San Antonio or am I missing something.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:13 PM
Probably so, but KC has a VERY well established fan base. Suppose there were no team in Kansas City (not a very pretty thought, but bear with me). If the Saints moved here, do you think they would immediately sell out every game? Perhaps, but I have my doubts. It takes time to build a solid fan base.

On top of that, it might also be different if the Saints actually were San Antionio's team. Right now, they're just a visiting team. If they were the San Antonio (whatevers), more people might start going to games because there's a long-term commitment there.
Good point.

You could also ask if the Cardinals and the Texans were forced to play a game in Minneapolis, would they sell out? My bet is in the "no" category. And they already have an NFL franchise.

Using Dirk's measuring stick, LA should never have a NFL Franchise again as they failed to sell out time after time.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:15 PM
I am talking about the game in San Antonio or am I missing something.
Obviously.

You are stating that 65,000 tix should sell out in 2 weeks time easily, from a fanbase that currently doesn't exist, has no permanent interest in either team at this time, and doesn't have the proper management background for an NFL team.

If that were the case and NFL tix go like hotcakes, why does the NFL waste so much time and money selling them so far in advance? They could wait until two weeks before the game and sell out every time.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:16 PM
The Saints should move from NO but not to San Antonio. It is a small market town and has 2 close competitors already. They should head to LA.

.

Exactly. Any teams that moves right now and does not go to LA is totally crazy. What an unbelievable market. Yes, the Rams and Raiders had their trouble...but Georgia and Al Davis made major contributions to that mess. Run a team correctly there and the $$$$$$$$$$$ will just flow in as well as hosting the Super Bowl on a regular rotation. If New Orleans does not end up there the Vikings will in my opinion. I know I would be headed there if I had a marginal city and had a chance to move...

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:17 PM
Good point.

You could also ask if the Cardinals and the Texans were forced to play a game in Minneapolis, would they sell out? My bet is in the "no" category. And they already have an NFL franchise.

Using Dirk's measuring stick, LA should never have a NFL Franchise again as they failed to sell out time after time.

My point Russ is that San Antonio has been wanting an NFL team for some time and this is their chance to prove to the NFL that they can support an NFL team.

What impression does it leave the NFL if you can't sell out your very first NFL game?

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:21 PM
My point Russ is that San Antonio has been wanting an NFL team for some time and this is their chance to prove to the NFL that they can support an NFL team.

What impression does it leave the NFL if you can't sell out your very first NFL game?
You mean a team that currently has not expressed solid interest in your town, splits the games with another college town and only gives 2 weeks to sell out?

Again, I think your measuring stick is not realistic. I know of very few people who decide at the last minute "Hey, I know we live check to check and this paycheck is already slotted for the mortgage and car payment, but I think we should pay the late fees on one or the other as we won't get another check before the game. Let's go blow 150.00 next week".

When they were given advance notice, they sold out. And 87% on a two week notice is pretty damned good to be perfectly honest.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:23 PM
My point Russ is that San Antonio has been wanting an NFL team for some time and this is their chance to prove to the NFL that they can support an NFL team.

What impression does it leave the NFL if you can't sell out your very first NFL game?

The point is, it was not their very first NFL game. It was another team's game that was scheduled at the last minute in SA. Nearly fill the place with no seson ticket/fan base? Hell of a job. Who knows...it may not have sold out just because tickets were saved for NO fans.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:25 PM
You mean a team that currently has not expressed solid interest in your town, splits the games with another college town and only gives 2 weeks to sell out?

Again, I think your measuring stick is not realistic. I know of very few people who decide at the last minute "Hey, I know we live check to check and this paycheck is already slotted for the mortgage and car payment, but I think we should pay the late fees on one or the other as we won't get another check before the game. Let's go blow 150.00 next week".

When they were given advance notice, they sold out. And 87% on a two week notice is pretty damned good to be perfectly honest.

I understand your point and I agree with you for the most part. But like I said before the commish and alot of the owners don't believe San Antonio is a viable market and plus Benson is an ass of an owner. He maybe worse than Bidwell.

BTW, they did sellout last week so I guess 4 weeks is long enough for them "poor" people to come up with some money.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:28 PM
I understand your point and I agree with you for the most part. But like I said before the commish and alot of the owners don't believe San Antonio is a viable market and plus Benson is an ass of an owner. He maybe worse than Bidwell.

BTW, they did sellout last week so I guess 4 weeks is long enough for them "poor" people to come up with some money.

Hey...Benson is not good, but he is no Bidwell! Bidwell is in a legue of his own in my opinion. He is the absolute....

greg63
10-19-2005, 11:32 PM
I voted no, but think it would be a shame if they were to move.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:32 PM
I understand your point and I agree with you for the most part. But like I said before the commish and alot of the owners don't believe San Antonio is a viable market and plus Benson is an ass of an owner. He maybe worse than Bidwell.

BTW, they did sellout last week so I guess 4 weeks is long enough for them "poor" people to come up with some money.
I never said "poor", I said people living from paycheck to paycheck. When you have 2 paychecks notice, it is much easier to make those big dollar purchases. You prove my point perfectly.

I honestly don't know if S.A. is viable. The Spurs seem to think they are with no problem. I do know that LA has screwed themselves time and time again. Any owner going out there and expecting the town to help in anyway deserves his vaseline-free bendover.

If I were an owner, I would look at San Antonio, Columbus - Ohio, Austin - Texas, Memphis - Tennessee, or Albequerque - New Mexico all before I looked at LA.

All of them have populations greater than KC and are not inundated by other major league franchises, excluding San Antonio with only one other franchise.


BTW - San Antonio is the 8th largest market in the USA and only one of 9 or 10 that have over 1,000,000 in the city proper. IMO, they are viable if they are marketed. Smaller towns have 2 or 3 major league franchises and do rather well with them - Detroit, Dallas, SFO, Milwaukee, Boston, Denver, KC, Cleveland, Atlanta, St Louis, Tampa, etc etc

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:33 PM
Mayor wants Saints in San Antonio

Web Posted: 10/17/2005 12:00 AM CDT

Tom Orsborn
Express-News Staff Writer

Laying aside all pretenses about the city's interest in the New Orleans Saints, Mayor Phil Hardberger said Sunday he plans to pursue actively the permanent relocation of the team to San Antonio.

Hardberger said Saints owner Tom Benson has agreed to participate in discussions, likely at the end of the current season, aimed at making the team the "San Antonio Saints" before the start of the 2006 season.

"He (Benson) understands that we will sit down and talk," Hardberger said while attending Sunday's Saints-Atlanta Falcons game at the Alamodome. "That is his desire as well. I'm pretty comfortable in saying he wants to be here."

A sellout crowd of 65,562 the largest ever for a football game in San Antonio turned out to see the Saints lose to the Falcons, 34-31, on a last-minute field goal.

"I think Tom Benson would like to stay here permanently and I, as mayor of San Antonio, would like to have the team stay here permanently," said Hardberger, who watched much of the game in Benson's suite.

Benson declined comment.

"I'm not going to make any comments about it until the end of the season," he said.

The Saints' contract with the Louisiana Stadium & Exposition District, which operates the Louisiana Superdome, runs through the 2010 season. But the Saints can opt out of the deal by invoking a destruction, or force majeure clause, before Nov. 29.

"We have a contract in place," said Tim Coulon, head of the Louisiana Stadium & Exposition District. "I understand he has a business obligation, but he has an obligation to the state as well."

An NFL spokesman declined comment.

Gov. Rick Perry, who also watched the game in Benson's suite, said he agrees with Hardberger that San Antonio is the Saints' best relocation option.

Other dignitaries in the Benson suite included the mayors of Austin and Laredo and state Sen. Jeff Wentworth, R-San Antonio.

Hardberger reiterated that he's against using city funds to build a new stadium for the Saints but said he would welcome state assistance.

Perry indicated he's open to the idea.

"If and when the Saints decide to move, San Antonio and the surrounding area would be an ideal location," Perry said. "And the question of whether there is local or state support is, without a doubt, in the affirmative."

Said Wentworth: "I'm hopeful this is where (the Saints) land permanently. We'd love to have them."

To prepare for talks with Benson, the city has commissioned a cost-benefit analysis of the Saints in San Antonio.

"We want to know how much money realistically (Saints games) can bring into the city," Hardberger said. "I consider Tom Benson a friend, but Tom Benson isn't going to give his team away."

Luring the Saints to San Antonio could cost millions, Hardberger said.

"To get a team you have to spend money, and many people only see that part of it," Hardberger said. "But you have to ask what you are going to get out of it. If you are getting back $3 for every dollar you spend, so what if it takes millions?"

The Saints moved their operations to the Alamodome on Sept. 2, just one week after Hurricane Katrina heavily damaged the Superdome.

Three Saints home games subsequently were moved to the Alamodome. Four others were moved to Baton Rouge, La., where ticket sales have lagged badly behind sales here.

Hardberger last week called the tickets sales situation in Baton Rouge "a disaster." About 42,000 tickets remain for the Saints' Baton Rouge opener Oct. 30 at LSU's Tiger Stadium, which will seat 79,000 for Saints games.

"The truth is they are not selling tickets in Baton Rouge," Hardberger said. "Do you want to see half of the seats filled or all of the seats?"

NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue is expected to talk to LSU officials next week about the Saints playing their 2006 home games in Baton Rouge.

Tagliabue "doesn't want them here," Hardberger said. "He wants them in Baton Rouge, and the only reason he wants them there is he doesn't want them to settle in here and be successful. Otherwise, Baton Rouge makes no sense because we will outsell their tickets, two to one. (Benson) doesn't want to be in Baton Rouge, where he would be losing money every game."

The Saints could face stiff resistance from the league if they attempt to relocate. According to league policy, such a move would require approval from 24 of the NFL's 32 owners.

"It's going to be a struggle," Hardberger said. "But the Saints are not working against this. Benson has said on numerous occasions he wants to be in San Antonio. The players want to be here and the coaches want to be here. Now, (Benson) is a businessman.

"But I believe him when he says he ultimately wants the team to be here and stay here."

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:40 PM
Saints tickets at the AlamoDome are alot cheaper than at Arrowhead.

End Zone $30
Sideline $45

The highest being $125.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:42 PM
Saints tickets at the AlamoDome are alot cheaper than at Arrowhead.

End Zone $30
Sideline $45

The highest being $125.
Temporarily only. Whomever gets the franchise will not be charging 30.00 a pop.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:44 PM
Temporarily only. Whomever gets the franchise will not be charging 30.00 a pop.

Of course not, I just thought it was interesting.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:52 PM
Cary Clack: San Antonio doesn't have to sell out to prove it's a terrific city

Web Posted: 10/01/2005 12:00 AM CDT


San Antonio Express-News

There, there now, don't you worry. Really, it's OK. Everything is going to be all right. Come here, San Antonio, you big lovable you, and lay your head on Papa C's shoulder.

So you didn't sell out Sunday's game between the New Orleans Saints and Buffalo Bills, the first regular-season NFL game to be played here. I know a lot of folks told you how terrible things would be and how awful you would look as a prospective home for your own franchise if you didn't sell out, but you did well.

You're still a wonderful city. People still love you, respect you, talk about you fondly and will continue to visit you.

Do you really believe the following conversation will take place?

"Honey, let's go back to San Antonio. We always have a great time there."

"San Antonio? Are you kidding? Did you hear about them?"

"No, what happened?"

"They didn't sell out the Saints-Bills game. It was disgraceful."

From the time it was announced that the Saints would play games here, San Antonians have been made to feel as if the future of the city depended upon our selling out the Alamodome.

"WE STILL HAVE 13,000 TICKETS TO SELL AND WE HAVE YOUR PETS!"

"IF THERE'S A BLACKOUT, THE WORLD WILL BE SWALLOED UP BY THE SUN!"

"BUY OR DIE!"

Political and business leaders who were a little too desirous for the Saints to be a permanent part of San Antonio's sports landscape fueled the pressure to sell out the games. Their coveting of the team was akin to a man lusting after a beautiful woman whose husband has just been killed. Yes, you'd like to have her and she certainly is available, but to pursue her before the funeral is distasteful.

The desire to have an NFL team here shouldn't supersede how we get one. Better that one comes here because of the reasons franchises move than to say it took the worst natural disaster in the nation's history to get one.

It would be great if San Antonio got an NFL franchise (preferably one in the AFC to lessen the conflict of allegiance for those of us who were raised as Dallas Cowboys fans), and this South Texas region could support one.

But if NFL Commissioner Paul Tagliabue picks up his ball after the season and won't let us play in his league, we'll be all right. We don't have to take any quickly arranged and arbitrary tests to prove we're ready for the big stages of sports. This city has nothing to prove about its passion for sports or ability to host major sporting events. Why does the NCAA keep bringing its basketball tournament back? And, oh yeah, there are those three NBA Championship banners hanging in the SBC Center with room for more.

So, San Antonio, don't let anyone make you feel bad or self-conscious because you didn't sell out Sunday's game. Keep doing what you've been doing and serving as gracious hosts to the Saints organization and their families. Enjoy having the likes of Joe Horn, Deuce McAllister and Ernie Conwell in the city and cheer them on as they play and handle their adversity with grace.

Revel in the tailgate party and act like you've been doing it for as long as the Packers have been in Green Bay.

Hard as it may be to believe, San Antonio will survive its non-sellout.

KCWolfman
10-19-2005, 11:54 PM
Of course not, I just thought it was interesting.
Yeah, it is. Without a point of reference and several other instances of the hurricane occurence, it is difficult to gauge who is correct, to be perfectly honest.

I do, however, have a point of reference in LA, and neither team made money while they were there.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:55 PM
San Antonio inspires Saints

08:36 PM CDT on Sunday, October 2, 2005

SAN ANTONIO The crowd was disappointing by NFL standards but not by the standards of the New Orleans Saints.

Only 58,688 turned out Sunday for the first NFL game in San Antonio, almost 7,000 fans shy of capacity. But a home crowd is a home crowd. It didn't matter to the Saints if 50, 500, 5,000 or 50,000 showed up.

"It was great to have a town just open up their arms and hug us," said Saints safety Dwight Smith. "To have fans cheer you when you come out, when you go in, when you make a play you feed off that. Teams feed off the enthusiasm of a crowd."

The Saints certainly played inspired football Sunday for their San Antonio fans, toppling the Buffalo Bills, 19-7, to even their record in this season of turmoil at 2-2.

"I didn't know what to expect," said Saints owner Tom Benson, who owns a home in San Antonio. "But their cheering told us they knew what the Saints have been going through for the last month. They know the tragedy and just got into the game for us. Their support was super."

Left homeless in August by Hurricane Katrina, the Saints have been living out of a suitcase as they attempt to play an NFL season without an established home.

The Saints were ordered by the league to play their first "home" game against the New York Giants in the New Jersey home of the Giants. Three other home games were assigned to San Antonio, a market already dubbed too small by NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue, and four games will be played at LSU in Baton Rouge. San Antonio also has become the Saints' temporary training base.

The crowd did its best to give the Saints a home field advantage. When New Orleans handed off to Deuce McAllister, the crowd would wail the obligatory, "Dooooooce." The crowd also struck up an occasional wave when the Buffalo offense had the football, and raised the roof of the Alamodome when implored to make noise by the Saints' defense.

"They made me fell like I was in New Orleans again," Saints defensive end Charles Grant said. "The fans were spectacular. I can't wait until we play here again."

The Saints were a tired football team from all the travel in September and played like it.

Emotion carried the Saints to a shocking 23-20 upset of the Carolina Panthers in the season opener. But New Orleans was barely competitive in losing its next two games to the New York Giants and Minnesota. The Saints committed 27 penalties in those two losses.

But last Saturday was the first time the Saints did not have to board an airplane to travel to a game this season.

"Travel takes a toll," Smith said. "We've been on the road since August. I think you saw a team that was sharper out there. You didn't see all the mental mistakes ... and you saw the results."

The Saints committed a season-low four penalties. They also didn't commit any turnovers. McAllister rushed for a season-high 130 yards, and the Saints controlled the ball for more than 36 minutes.

"This is the best game we've played in a long, long time," Benson said. "The crowd helped us win this game."

The city of San Antonio doesn't have to apologize for the size of the crowd. Heck, the Saints played in front of two smaller crowds last season. Only 28,109 turned out to see the Cardinals-Saints in Arizona, and 45,337 turned out to see the Randy Moss and the Raiderz-Saints in Oakland.

And those cities have attachments to NFL teams. With no emotional attachment to either the Saints or Bills, San Antonio still sold almost 60,000 tickets. And the city did so on short notice. The Alamodome was awarded the game on Sept. 12. That gave the city just 20 days to stage the game and sell the tickets.

San Antonio also is Cowboys country. Yet the last time the Cowboys played in the Alamodome a 1995 exhibition game against the Houston Oilers only 52,512 turned out.

Which shows San Antonio knows the difference between the preseason and regular season. The Saints gave this city real football Sunday. And San Antonio gave them a home field advantage in return.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:57 PM
I do, however, have a point of reference in LA, and neither team made money while they were there.

I agree, I really don't want another team in LA. If they move the Saints I like any of your previous suggestions. I think the mayor of San Antonio has pissed off the NFL, especially the commish and I think the chance of them having an NFL team is a big fat 0.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:58 PM
Yeah, it is. Without a point of reference and several other instances of the hurricane occurence, it is difficult to gauge who is correct, to be perfectly honest.

I do, however, have a point of reference in LA, and neither team made money while they were there.

If you can not make $$$ in the ( second, I believe ) largest market in the country, do not blame the market. It is totally ownership. Dodgers...Lakers...bringing in $$$$$$$$$$$$ faster than they can even spend it. Football would be the same if some one runs it correctly.

dirk digler
10-19-2005, 11:59 PM
If you can not make $$$ in the ( second, I believe ) largest market in the country, do not blame the market. It is totally ownership. Dodgers...Lakers...bringing in $$$$$$$$$$$$ faster than they can even spend it. Football would be the same if some one runs it correctly.

Are you saying Al Davis and Georgia Frontaire(sp) are lousy owners?

ROFL

Like I said before LA has had their chance and blew it. They couldn't even get an ownership group together a couple of years ago. Their fans are very bandwagon fans and are not loyal at all.

chief52
10-20-2005, 12:00 AM
Are you saying Al Davis and Georgia Frontaire(sp) are lousy owners?

ROFL

Pretty much... :clap:

Simplex3
10-20-2005, 12:00 AM
If you can not make $$$ in the ( second, I believe ) largest market in the country, do not blame the market. It is totally ownership. Dodgers...Lakers...bringing in $$$$$$$$$$$$ faster than they can even spend it. Football would be the same if some one runs it correctly.
Those sports make $$$$ in LA because they have enough games for people to be seen at. You think all those idiots enjoy basketball? I'll bet you half of them are there for that obligatory camera shot where the announcer says "and look who's here tonight, it's Jack Nicholson!". Football doesn't provide that same opportunity and has the added downside of having to sit around regular people.

tk13
10-20-2005, 12:06 AM
You'd make plenty of money in LA... if you got a new stadium. The Lakers, Dodgers, Angels, etc. draw great crowds and bring in tons and tons of money way more than 8 times a year, LA is not the problem, getting a revenue producing stadium with luxury boxes is.

KCWolfman
10-20-2005, 12:13 AM
If you can not make $$$ in the ( second, I believe ) largest market in the country, do not blame the market. It is totally ownership. Dodgers...Lakers...bringing in $$$$$$$$$$$$ faster than they can even spend it. Football would be the same if some one runs it correctly.
The Dodgers have not always made money. The Kings have suffered as well as the Clippers. The Lakers will make money until doomsday because the elite support them, not because the town does.

The town is just not sports oriented. If it were Georgia's fault, then the St Louis Rams would have suffered and they didn't. LA and their politicians voted down referendum after referendum when suggested by Weird Al and Evil Georgia. The town likes the franchises there, they just don't want to be reminded that it is a mutual need that keeps them there.

KCWolfman
10-20-2005, 12:13 AM
You'd make plenty of money in LA... if you got a new stadium. The Lakers, Dodgers, Angels, etc. draw great crowds and bring in tons and tons of money way more than 8 times a year, LA is not the problem, getting a revenue producing stadium with luxury boxes is.
Georgia and Al said the same thing. The population disagreed with both of them and voted them down.

KCWolfman
10-20-2005, 12:14 AM
Pretty much... :clap:
I wonder why the Rams are so successful in such a small franchise town while sharing with two other major franchises with Georgia at the helm?

Your logic doesn't hold

tk13
10-20-2005, 12:17 AM
I wonder why the Rams are so successful in such a small franchise town while sharing with two other major franchises with Georgia at the helm?

Your logic doesn't hold
New stadium. New stadium. New stadium.

New stadium.

KCWolfman
10-20-2005, 12:45 AM
New stadium. New stadium. New stadium.

New stadium.
Al got a new stadium and was one of the first to charge PSLs. How is oaktown faring?

tk13
10-20-2005, 12:53 AM
Al got a new stadium and was one of the first to charge PSLs. How is oaktown faring?
Al's an idiot. Like that's a good example of a quality owner. You put a new stadium in LA with premium seating and you'll have a gold mine in unshared revenue.

KCWolfman
10-20-2005, 06:07 AM
Al's an idiot. Like that's a good example of a quality owner. You put a new stadium in LA with premium seating and you'll have a gold mine in unshared revenue.
You mean like Georgia and Al asked for and were denied by both the population and politicians of LA?

Extra Point
10-20-2005, 06:43 AM
I can understand the Saints leaving, but let the name stay in NO in the case that a franchise can emerge. The name "Utah Jazz" doesn't fit.

If a community can sustain an NBA team, then it have a better chance of sustaining an NFL team. KC has proven that. Then again, look at LA.

Nagin is an idiot for thinking that local gov't can pin the Saints in NO. Katherine Shields yesterday announced that the city of KCMO is working on locking in the leases to go beyond 2014, to structure funding plans for stadium improvements.

"If you've built it, don't be dumb." Each NFL franchise generates too much income for local gov't to call any bluffs.

philfree
10-20-2005, 07:06 AM
An interesting situation. If Benson takes the Saints to San Antonio and New Orleans gets a guaranteed franchise like Cleveland did then the league needs one more team to balance out expansion. That'd be Los Angeles of course. If I were New Orleans and could get the deal that Cleveland got I'd say take your Saints and shove'm. I'd give up the name considering the history. The New Orleans Hurricanes?

PhilFree:arrow:

chief52
10-20-2005, 07:29 AM
Al got a new stadium and was one of the first to charge PSLs. How is oaktown faring?

You lost a little credibility here, Wolfman. Al did not get a new stadium in Oakland. Your logic does not hold.

chief52
10-20-2005, 07:32 AM
The Dodgers have not always made money. The Kings have suffered as well as the Clippers. The Lakers will make money until doomsday because the elite support them, not because the town does.

The town is just not sports oriented. If it were Georgia's fault, then the St Louis Rams would have suffered and they didn't. LA and their politicians voted down referendum after referendum when suggested by Weird Al and Evil Georgia. The town likes the franchises there, they just don't want to be reminded that it is a mutual need that keeps them there.


The DODGERS HAVE NOT ALWAYS MADE MONEY?????????????????

They have one of the greatest fan bases in sports. They pack the place and the media money they bring in is probably only second to the Yankees. Your credibility is slipping...slipping...slipping....

KCWolfman
10-20-2005, 01:26 PM
You lost a little credibility here, Wolfman. Al did not get a new stadium in Oakland. Your logic does not hold.
Credibility? Are you guys still playing that game when people disagree with you?

McAfee was expanded in 1996 and was the first team to charge PSLs. They are also planning more expansion today.

Two teams have failed in LA, not just because of the owners, but because of lackadasical fans who voted down improvement and politicians who weren't interested.

chagrin
10-20-2005, 01:51 PM
Okay, I'm a broken record - We in Louisiana practically invented the corrupt politician, he is as big a criminal as Huey P friggin Long. His predecessor was no better and I can't remember a decent Mayor, councilman, rep, Insurance commissioner we've ever had there.

chief52
10-23-2005, 02:10 PM
[QUOTE=KCWolfman]Credibility? Are you guys still playing that game when people disagree with you?

QUOTE]

KCWolf;

Not sure what this statement means. I think maybe you have me confused with someone else. Care to explain?

I disagreed with you on this topic, but I thought that is what the board is all about.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

'52