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View Full Version : If we don't win the SB...and Holmes, Roaf, Shields, Vermeil retire...


CanadaKC
10-19-2005, 11:10 PM
....we obviously start from scratch....and it could very well be a strong possibility. If that happens...what do you think the Chiefs will do in their rebuilding phase? Do we trade gonzo? Do we stock the D? Draft a franchise QB in that phase? LJ and DJ are the cornerstones of our team of the future....but what positions would you like to see filled with the draft vs. FA?

KChiefsQT
10-19-2005, 11:13 PM
....we obviously start from scratch....and it could very well be a strong possibility. If that happens...what do you think the Chiefs will do in their rebuilding phase? Do we trade gonzo? Do we stock the D? Draft a franchise QB in that phase? LJ and DJ are the cornerstones of our team of the future....but what positions would you like to see filled with the draft vs. FA?

Damnit Carl!!!!!!!!! :cuss:

StcChief
10-19-2005, 11:17 PM
Start with LT - another FA. Black was unimpressive.
QB - Draft

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:18 PM
1st off...we have no idea who is going to retire. Shields is a lock, IMO, but outside of that it's a wash.

2nd off, this "starting from scratch" thing is also way off. We're building a defense and most of the key players are under 30.

Offensively with LJ and Gonzalez we have a nice combo for the next few years. Who knows what is going to happen at WR.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:18 PM
Damnit Carl!!!!!!!!! :cuss:

Perfect...:)

Dunit35
10-19-2005, 11:20 PM
Nobody knows whats going to happen. Although we need to draft a QB rather high in the draft this year.

tk13
10-19-2005, 11:21 PM
1st off...we have no idea who is going to retire. Shields is a lock, IMO, but outside of that it's a wash.

2nd off, this "starting from scratch" thing is also way off. We're building a defense and most of the key players are under 30.

Offensively with LJ and Gonzalez we have a nice combo for the next few years. Who knows what is going to happen at WR.
There you go, gotta RB, TE, and defense. Hire Marty away from San Diego, fire Saunders, make Paul Hackett our OC again, we're in business.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:21 PM
Nobody knows whats going to happen. Although we need to draft a QB rather high in the draft this year.

I disagree. I've never really liked the idea of drafting a QB high and developing one. I'd rather see KC bring in a free agent.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:22 PM
There you go, gotta RB, TE, and defense. Hire Marty away from San Diego, fire Saunders, make Paul Hackett our OC again, we're in business.

ROFL

SLAG
10-19-2005, 11:23 PM
There you go, gotta RB, TE, and defense. Hire Marty away from San Diego, fire Saunders, make Paul Hackett our OC again, we're in business.


In all seriousness... OK.. I See Marty Coming back to KC... yet with marty comes Marty Ball.. And with marty ball.. you get to the post season.. yet always fall short of the prize

cdcox
10-19-2005, 11:23 PM
I disagree. I've never really liked the idea of drafting a QB high and developing one. I'd rather see KC bring in a free agent.

Yup. QBs like Trent Green are available for free every year.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:25 PM
In all seriousness... OK.. I See Marty Coming back to KC... yet with marty comes Marty Ball.. And with marty ball.. you get to the post season.. yet always fall short of the prize

Well short... :banghead:

Coach
10-19-2005, 11:26 PM
I disagree. I've never really liked the idea of drafting a QB high and developing one. I'd rather see KC bring in a free agent.

Agreed. Most of their good QB's came from FA's or trades (Montana, DeBerg, Green to name a few)

Can't really remember, if ever, the Chiefs ever developed a solid QB from a draft.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:29 PM
I also hate having a down year while your rookie QB takes his lumps.

Simplex3
10-19-2005, 11:30 PM
How about we hire a coach that has a proven track record of finding and working with QBs?

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:32 PM
Agreed. Most of their good QB's came from FA's or trades (Montana, DeBerg, Green to name a few)

Can't really remember, if ever, the Chiefs ever developed a solid QB from a draft.

Montana and DeBerg? Please...Montana was a great 49er and had some good games for the Chiefs, but he was not a good Chief QB. His HOF career was well over. Kenney was signed as a FA and was a good pick-up and Green has been worth the 1st Round pick...even if I cussed the trade at the time.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:32 PM
Montana and DeBerg? Please...Montana was a great 49er and had some good games for the Chiefs, but he was not a good Chief QB. .

I can't believe you're dissing the only Chiefs QB that has won a playoff game in the last 15 years.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:36 PM
I can't believe you're dissing the only Chiefs QB that has won a playoff game in the last 15 years.

I am in no way dissing him...but he was a he a shadow of himself in KC, believe me. Great guy, great QB...but he was done when he went there. He was a truly great 49er.

HolmeZz
10-19-2005, 11:37 PM
Unless we draft a QB named Matt Leinart, I'd want our QBoTF found in FA. The draft is way too much of a crap shoot and there aren't too many big blue chip prospects at QB for the forseeable future.

Simplex3
10-19-2005, 11:37 PM
You know, a Super Bowl winner would cause more retirements than not winning it IMO.

Coach
10-19-2005, 11:41 PM
Montana and DeBerg? Please...Montana was a great 49er and had some good games for the Chiefs, but he was not a good Chief QB. His HOF career was well over. Kenney was signed as a FA and was a good pick-up and Green has been worth the 1st Round pick...even if I cussed the trade at the time.

Hell, I'll take Montana over Grbac or Bono anyday, anytime.

Montana may not be a good QB, but at least he was deftinaly better than Grbac or Bono. I never heard anything about Montana badmouthing KC, while Elvis "I can't catch it and throw it" Grbac, not to mention that every time he's in pressure situations, he just folds.

Bono, I won't even go there.

Frankie
10-19-2005, 11:41 PM
I wonder if David Carr would come cheap relatively soon.

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:44 PM
This is dumb. Montana was definitely a good QB here. He went to the freakin' Pro Bowl.

Kurt Warner is washed up. Montana wasn't.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:47 PM
Hell, I'll take Montana over Grbac or Bono anyday, anytime.

Montana may not be a good QB, but at least he was deftinaly better than Grbac or Bono. I never heard anything about Montana badmouthing KC, while Elvis "I can't catch it and throw it" Grbac, not to mention that every time he's in pressure situations, he just folds.

Bono, I won't even go there.

I agree, I agree, I agree... But he was not in KC long and was only a shell of himself. Yes, he was still much better than the two you listed. It was just too late in his career for him to do his magic in KC in my opinion. I hate the 49ers...but I do like Montana.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:48 PM
This is dumb. Montana was definitely a good QB here. He went to the freakin' Pro Bowl.

Kurt Warner is washed up. Montana wasn't.

You only say that because you never saw him play in his prime...

Simplex3
10-19-2005, 11:48 PM
I wonder if David Carr would come cheap relatively soon.
The Texans would probably trade him for a roast beef sandwich right now and I'm sure his agent would be willing to talk contract.

tk13
10-19-2005, 11:51 PM
He got Marty as close to a Super Bowl as he's been in almost 20 years, I'd say Montana worked his magic in KC just fine... :)

Douche Baggins
10-19-2005, 11:51 PM
You only say that because you never saw him play in his prime...

Look, I know how good Montana was. I know he wasn't the same QB in KC. But he certainly wasn't "washed up." Injury-prone, maybe.

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:54 PM
He got Marty as close to a Super Bowl as he's been in almost 20 years, I'd say Montana worked his magic in KC just fine... :)

With that, I think I will sign off. Yes, I guess he was more magical than I thought. ROFL

chief52
10-19-2005, 11:55 PM
Look, I know how good Montana was. I know he wasn't the same QB in KC. But he certainly wasn't "washed up." Injury-prone, maybe.

Actually, gc, he was not injury-prone, he was just beat up...

Tribal Warfare
10-20-2005, 12:00 AM
The Texans would probably trade him for a roast beef sandwich right now and I'm sure his agent would be willing to talk contract.
Excellent, and we're the barbecue capital of the world !!!!!!!! :fire:

Frankie
10-20-2005, 12:05 AM
The Texans would probably trade him for a roast beef sandwich right now and I'm sure his agent would be willing to talk contract.
Would you trade LJ for Carr? Just curious.

Douche Baggins
10-20-2005, 12:17 AM
Actually, gc, he was not injury-prone, he was just beat up...

I'm not really sure what you mean. Montana missed something like 7 or 8 games in two years. One time he pulled a hamstring running for a short gain.

Coach
10-20-2005, 12:23 AM
I'm not really sure what you mean. Montana missed something like 7 or 8 games in two years. One time he pulled a hamstring running for a short gain.

I remember something like that. I do remember him getting knocked out stone cold at Buffalo, where he was laying on the turf at Buffalo, with his hands on his helmet while on the ground.

kregger
10-20-2005, 01:01 AM
Unless we draft a QB named Matt Leinart, I'd want our QBoTF found in FA. The draft is way too much of a crap shoot and there aren't too many big blue chip prospects at QB for the forseeable future.

No way on Leinart. THe guy can't throw past 25 yds and his mobility sucks. Another great college QB that will fail in the pros. Look up Joey Harrington for example.

HolmeZz
10-20-2005, 01:06 AM
No way on Leinart. THe guy can't throw past 25 yds and his mobility sucks. Another great college QB that will fail in the pros. Look up Joey Harrington for example.

If we had the #1 pick in this upcoming draft and we DIDN'T take Leinart, we'd be idiots.

kregger
10-20-2005, 01:11 AM
If we had the #1 pick in this upcoming draft and we DIDN'T take Leinart, we'd be idiots.

We have more pressing issues than QB. Think OL or WR or FB on offense. Think DL, FS on defense.

Jamie
10-20-2005, 02:09 AM
It would depend on how close they were to winning the Super Bowl. A close loss in the AFC Title game or in the Super Bowl might cause most of the team to come back. Missing the playoffs would probably cause as many retirements as winning the Super Bowl; and should trigger a top-down rebuilding of the organization, but probably wouldn't.

However it goes, I think they're going to have to rebuild through the draft and from within, because they're going to be too capped out to make any big moves.

Pants
10-20-2005, 02:39 AM
Why are we talking about acquiring FA QBs? Trent isn't retiring for at least a couple years (he might get beat up with a weaker O-Line, though, and decide he wants to be able to move by the age of 45 and thus retire after 2006, but he's a warrior and it's unlikely).

If the pepople listed in the starter retire, we still have a pretty much complete team with Black and Sampson stepping up. We just need to upgrade the DL, and we are back in contention (assuming the the next HC is AS and the schemes stay the same).

Otter
10-20-2005, 04:15 AM
If the Chiefs were capable of developing a QB they would have done it by now. Be it brains, personal, scouts…they can’t cut it, they know it so they don’t try.

jspchief
10-20-2005, 06:00 AM
What I would like to see is us draft a first day QB, that can sit on the bench learning from Green for a year or two, then come in and take the reigns when Green retires. If you look at the successful young QBs, a lot of them spent a year or two learning from the sidelines.

Instead, we'll end up trading away an early pick for another QB. I fully expect us to pursue Harrington. He's about to be benched in favor of Garcia, and I think the Lions are done with him. By April, the Harrington trade talks will be in full swing.

mselley
10-20-2005, 06:04 AM
trade for philip rivers

Pants
10-20-2005, 06:10 AM
What I would like to see is us draft a first day QB, that can sit on the bench learning from Green for a year or two, then come in and take the reigns when Green retires. If you look at the successful young QBs, a lot of them spent a year or two learning from the sidelines.

Instead, we'll end up trading away an early pick for another QB. I fully expect us to pursue Harrington. He's about to be benched in favor of Garcia, and I think the Lions are done with him. By April, the Harrington trade talks will be in full swing.

Shit, they were already in pretty much full swing a few weeks ago.

jspchief
10-20-2005, 06:12 AM
Shit, they were already in pretty much full swing a few weeks ago.Rhonda Moss rumors that were never substantiated.

But I do believe it's possible they are true, and that's part of the reason I think we may pursue him.

philfree
10-20-2005, 06:38 AM
Why are we talking about acquiring FA QBs? Trent isn't retiring for at least a couple years (he might get beat up with a weaker O-Line, though, and decide he wants to be able to move by the age of 45 and thus retire after 2006, but he's a warrior and it's unlikely).

If the pepople listed in the starter retire, we still have a pretty much complete team with Black and Sampson stepping up. We just need to upgrade the DL, and we are back in contention (assuming the the next HC is AS and the schemes stay the same).

That's how I see it. We got something pretty good in place with our offensive system. I like the ablility to be able to score a lot of points. The Ds coming along with the LBs we now have and if Jared Allen is what he appears to be as a pass rusher we are only a player or maybe two away on defense. Actually with Sims back and playing the way he started the season it probably is just 1 player away. A Pro Bowl FS sure would be nice.

Gunther=DC, Weird Al=OC and Herman Edwards=HC

I think that would be better then Al as the HC. Either way I think we can keep Gunther as DC if we want when DV retires.


PhilFree:arrow:

Hoover
10-20-2005, 06:45 AM
I don't think rebuilding would be that bad, unless Green hangs it up.

Holmes - Replaced by Larry Johnson
Shields - Replaced by Welbourn
Roaf - Replaced by a Free Agent/Draft Pick

I kinda hope next season is a rebuilding year, it has to happen sometime.

jspchief
10-20-2005, 06:54 AM
I don't think rebuilding would be that bad, unless Green hangs it up.

Holmes - Replaced by Larry Johnson
Shields - Replaced by Welbourn
Roaf - Replaced by a Free Agent/Draft Pick

I kinda hope next season is a rebuilding year, it has to happen sometime.IMO, it's going to happen next year regardless of how good or bad we do this year. The Chiefs have a lot of huge contracts next year, and they don't have the cap space to fit them in. We have a lot of guys that are getting to the tail end of their contracts, where the base exceeds what the team can afford.

We actually need some guys to retire. Shields and Roaf are the obvious ones. But even guys like Eddie Kennison will be very expensive next year.

Hopefully we can restructure a few contracts along with retirements to make cap space. But the fact is, this team is going to have massive personnell turnover sometime soon. It's the nature of keeping so many vets year after year. Hopefully we can spread it over a few years, instead of having to have a fire sale like the Titans did this year.

Where we got hurt the most is keeping all those defensive bums from a few years ago. We're paying guys like Browning, Wesley, and Bartee way too much. We desperately need some draft picks to start panning out.

CupidStunt
10-20-2005, 08:31 AM
We will have the same offseason we did in 2003.

VERY quiet, very inactive on the free agent front.

Anyong Bluth
10-20-2005, 09:15 AM
I thought about Rivers when they started talking about the chargers trying to move them, but right now there is little leverage for the chiefs to use.

San Diego has already aquired their new backup
They are in a dream situation in terms of cap space
They have no incentive to send over a top QB to a divisional rival- and if they are, then I'm gonna start raising ?'s of Rivers worth.

As for the Montana washed up debate - bullshit. Took the Chiefs to an AFC Championship and still out dueled Elway in the greatest Monday Night game ever. Just b/c the guy was a bit more brittle - his hammy was an injury from a cheapshot by one of the Raiders out of bounds at Arrowhead, by the way.
The dude still could roll through his reads in his sleep and deliver money balls... ohh the glory days of Willie Davie, Tim Barnett, JJ Birden, Keith Cash, Todd McNair. All dynamos!!!

Anyong Bluth
10-20-2005, 09:17 AM
I thought about Rivers when they started talking about the chargers trying to move them, but right now there is little leverage for the chiefs to use.

San Diego has already aquired their new backup
They are in a dream situation in terms of cap space
They have no incentive to send over a top QB to a divisional rival- and if they are, then I'm gonna start raising ?'s of Rivers worth.

As for the Montana washed up debate - bullshit. Took the Chiefs to an AFC Championship and still out dueled Elway in the greatest Monday Night game ever. Just b/c the guy was a bit more brittle - his hammy was an injury from a cheapshot by one of the Randy Moss and the Raiderz out of bounds at Arrowhead, by the way.
The dude still could roll through his reads in his sleep and deliver money balls... ohh the glory days of Willie Davie, Tim Barnett, JJ Birden, Keith Cash, Todd McNair. All dynamos!!!

Inspector
10-20-2005, 09:33 AM
In all seriousness... OK.. I See Marty Coming back to KC... yet with marty comes Marty Ball.. And with marty ball.. you get to the post season.. yet always fall short of the prize

Thanks goodness we don't have that problem with Vermiel....