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ROYC75
10-25-2005, 07:53 AM
Poll coming ......

Marty week, Many of ChiefsNation still love Marty, Many do not. Marty gave us hope to only leave us with disapointment. Dick has done the same in just a few short years .

Just for fun, giving the talent and coaching staff of each team, Just switching Head Coaches ( ONLY ), which coach would see the SB quicker ?

Marty win a SB with Al / Gun & with the current KC players ?

Dick win a SB with Cam / Wade & with the current Bolts players ?

HemiEd
10-25-2005, 07:57 AM
IMO Marty will never win one, he is dooooooooooomed by his own game strategy.

Bowser
10-25-2005, 07:59 AM
Marty has proven time and again that he gets too conservative at the wrong times. He will never coach a SuperBowl team.

ROYC75
10-25-2005, 08:02 AM
Marty has always been old school and wanted to let the other team beat themselves.

I wouldn't say never will win a SB. But his chances are slim with his strategy.

Dr. Chief
10-25-2005, 08:03 AM
I believe that Martz should get as much credit for that SB win as Dick. Martz is a terrible head coach, but when he had Dick holding him back a bit it was a great combo.

So basically, neither will win one.

chagrin
10-25-2005, 08:09 AM
Should be an "other" option...nobody wins a SB with our current players (meaning this year)

royr17
10-25-2005, 08:13 AM
I love Marty's Defensive Mentality but I love the offense that Dick Vermeil runs, If Marty was to run the Offense that DV runs with him knowin defense then he in my opinion would be able to win a super bowl imho.

Radar Chief
10-25-2005, 08:16 AM
IMO Marty will never win one, he is dooooooooooomed by his own game strategy.

I’ve told this story here before, but when I was still in the Army and stationed in Germany is when the Chiefs hired Marty. I was hyped and brag’n to a friend of mine who just happened to be from Cleveland. He told me bluntly, “Marty never got the Browns to a Super Bowl, he’ll never get the Chiefs there.”

royr17
10-25-2005, 08:23 AM
I’ve told this story here before, but when I was still in the Army and stationed in Germany is when the Chiefs hired Marty. I was hyped and brag’n to a friend of mine who just happened to be from Cleveland. He told me bluntly, “Marty never got the Browns to a Super Bowl, he’ll never get the Chiefs there.”

Well your friend was pretty smart and was right about Marty would never get the Chiefs to the Super Bowl of course we would've went to the Super Bowl if Joe Montana didnt go out with a concussion against the Bills.

StcChief
10-25-2005, 08:24 AM
Al on O, Marty D mind. I think we have better talent now than SD.

I guess we will find out on Sunday.

Ultra Peanut
10-25-2005, 08:26 AM
Where's the other governor?

Err, where's the "neither" option?

gblowfish
10-25-2005, 08:33 AM
Marty is the second coming of Chuck Knox.

HemiEd
10-25-2005, 08:49 AM
I’ve told this story here before, but when I was still in the Army and stationed in Germany is when the Chiefs hired Marty. I was hyped and brag’n to a friend of mine who just happened to be from Cleveland. He told me bluntly, “Marty never got the Browns to a Super Bowl, he’ll never get the Chiefs there.”

The Browns friend knew what he was talking about. However, Marty did a great job with the Chiefs getting them headed in the right direction. They were horrible before he came but I still followed them with hope.

ROYC75
10-25-2005, 08:51 AM
Where's the other governor?

Err, where's the "neither" option?

There wasn't one because it would be a slam dunk.

Woodrow Call
10-25-2005, 08:55 AM
With Al running the offense and Marty and Gun in charge of the D, I would give the edge to Marty/Gun/Al.

I just am not impressed with DV and probably never will be. At least Marty got the Chiefs to playoffs and built the winningest team in the 90's, DV has brought the Chiefs .500 football and one playoff trip.

This in no way is an endorsement to bring in a Marty clone or as Marty as a head coach but IMO he is the lesser of two evils.

htismaqe
10-25-2005, 08:57 AM
With Al running the offense and Marty and Gun in charge of the D, I would give the edge to Marty/Gun/Al.

I just am not impressed with DV and probably never will be. At least Marty got the Chiefs to playoffs and built the winningest team in the 90's, DV has brought the Chiefs .500 football and one playoff trip.

This in no way is an endorsement to bring in a Marty clone or as Marty as a head coach but IMO he is the lesser of two evils.

Would you rather have a coach that struggles to win in the regular season, but you know has a chance to win in the post season?

Or would you rather have a coach that has no trouble making the playoffs but will never make it to a Super Bowl?

Give me Vermeil 10 times out of 10.

sedated
10-25-2005, 08:58 AM
Marty would actually stick to the running game, which is what this O does best.

Vermeil is still competing with Martz to see who can put up the most passing yards, which will doom us.

I'd take Marty with this team.

DTLB58
10-25-2005, 09:05 AM
With Al running the offense and Marty and Gun in charge of the D, I would give the edge to Marty/Gun/Al.
I just am not impressed with DV and probably never will be. At least Marty got the Chiefs to playoffs and built the winningest team in the 90's, DV has brought the Chiefs .500 football and one playoff trip.

This in no way is an endorsement to bring in a Marty clone or as Marty as a head coach but IMO he is the lesser of two evils.

I agree with this completly. I think Marty would add just enough to the D to make them a top 10 unit and Marty would also pull Al back a little with all the cutsie plays.

Area 51
10-25-2005, 09:08 AM
KC's dismal record in the playoffs in the Marty era was due to Marty not being a playoff coach. His plan of attack gets very weak once the regular season is over. Check Cleveland, KC and SD. the cities have changed but the operation of Marty has not.

Marty isn't ever going to win a SB.

B_Ambuehl
10-25-2005, 09:39 AM
There wasn't much he could do about Byners fumble. I was watching that game as a 14 year old and it surely wasn't his fault. The year before that Elway got that lucky drive. He never had great offensive talent in KC from what I recall. It wasn't his fault his kicker couldn't get the job done last year.

Having said that it does seem like Marty has the worst luck of any head coach I can remember.

I remember my dad telling me when he took over for the Chiefs, "he'll turn that team around", and he did. Now he's turned SD around.

You wanna talk about conservative though take a look at Bill Parcells and some of his teams. That guy was amazingly lucky to get to those superbowls.

DJJasonp
10-25-2005, 09:43 AM
Marty still coaches not to lose, rather than coaching to win....

Never wins it.

On a side note....last night on Chargers report in SD....the host made mention that DV cries more than Marty....

I think we have a new side poll.......

Fish
10-25-2005, 09:49 AM
Marty will win just enough to break your heart.....

I'd take DV...............

htismaqe
10-25-2005, 10:01 AM
There wasn't much he could do about Byners fumble. I was watching that game as a 14 year old and it surely wasn't his fault. The year before that Elway got that lucky drive. He never had great offensive talent in KC from what I recall. It wasn't his fault his kicker couldn't get the job done last year.

Having said that it does seem like Marty has the worst luck of any head coach I can remember.

I remember my dad telling me when he took over for the Chiefs, "he'll turn that team around", and he did. Now he's turned SD around.

You wanna talk about conservative though take a look at Bill Parcells and some of his teams. That guy was amazingly lucky to get to those superbowls.

It was Marty's fault.

His entire strategy revolves around keeping the game so close that one lucky play, good or bad, will win or lose the game...

Calcountry
10-25-2005, 10:11 AM
Marty has always been old school and wanted to let the other team beat themselves.

I wouldn't say never will win a SB. But his chances are slim with his strategy.I can relate this more to baseball, since I actually played that so my opinion counts. Good pitching and defense will get you to the playoffs, but eventually you need that clutch 3 run homer or 2 run double off of good pitching to win the big games.

CoMoChief
10-25-2005, 10:15 AM
I love Marty's Defensive Mentality but I love the offense that Dick Vermeil runs, If Marty was to run the Offense that DV runs with him knowin defense then he in my opinion would be able to win a super bowl imho.



Who would be the head coach? There too much pride in that job title to just sit back and let someone else take care of that much of the team. That's why Gun isn't being the same Gun that he was back in the mid 90's. Dick simply will have a final say in what is to be done and as long as DV is our HC, we will never be good on defense IMO. When you have a corner that plays off of a WR by nearly 10 yards, your gonna get picked on all game. Then you single handedly give up 150+ yards yourself and then get praised after each game saying that you "had a nice game". I dont think I have ever seen Dexter McCleon have a nice game. Or maybe its just that I have a hatred passion towards McCleon.

Woodrow Call
10-25-2005, 10:31 AM
Would you rather have a coach that struggles to win in the regular season, but you know has a chance to win in the post season?

Or would you rather have a coach that has no trouble making the playoffs but will never make it to a Super Bowl?

Give me Vermeil 10 times out of 10.

I would rather get in and have a chance than not get in at all. I just don't see a Vermeil led Chiefs team doing anything in the playoffs. He caught lightning in a bottle in STL and I was 5 months old when he got it done in Phili.

I hated Martyball and like I said I am not praising him but I would rather get in every year and see what happens.

htismaqe
10-25-2005, 10:32 AM
I would rather get in and have a chance than not get in at all. I just don't see a Vermeil led Chiefs team doing anything in the playoffs. He caught lightning in a bottle in STL and I was 5 months old when he got it done in Phili.

I hated Martyball and like I said I am not praising him but I would rather get in every year and see what happens.

I would rather get in every year and have a chance to win a playoff game.

But then you're talking about someone other than Marty.

Deberg_1990
10-25-2005, 11:09 AM
His entire strategy revolves around keeping the game so close that one lucky play, good or bad, will win or lose the game...

BINGO, if the guy would just loosen up a bit and go for broke a bit more in the playoffs, then he might win a few more playoff games. Until then....no way will he ever get to a Super Bowl. The problem with his playoff philosophy is, all teams in the playoffs are good and dont make mistakes. Thats why they are there! You cant just sit back and wait for a dumb mistake like you can in the regular season.

ROYC75
10-25-2005, 11:14 AM
I would rather get in every year and have a chance to win a playoff game.

But then you're talking about someone other than Marty.

If I had my choice, Marty,Gun and Al instead of Dick, Gun and Al.

htismaqe
10-25-2005, 11:35 AM
If I had my choice, Marty,Gun and Al instead of Dick, Gun and Al.

Marty, Gun, and Al were all here. They didn't get it done (albeit Al wasn't the OC at the time).

B_Ambuehl
10-25-2005, 11:38 AM
It was Marty's fault.

His entire strategy revolves around keeping the game so close that one lucky play, good or bad, will win or lose the game...

From a fans perspective I can see why people would say what they say about Marty but you must not have watched those Cleveland/Denver games.

I'm curious who called the plays in KC when Marty was coach?
I know he's got a pretty good offensive coordinator now and appears to be giving him some frreedom. SD is #2 in the NFL in scoring.

ROYC75
10-25-2005, 11:39 AM
Marty, Gun, and Al were all here. They didn't get it done (albeit Al wasn't the OC at the time).

Could that of made the difference, Hacket wasn't the answer.

Radar Chief
10-25-2005, 11:57 AM
The Browns friend knew what he was talking about. However, Marty did a great job with the Chiefs getting them headed in the right direction. They were horrible before he came but I still followed them with hope.

Oh believe me, I appreciate what Marty brought to the team. Those nasty defenses were fun, I played DE in high school and have always been D prejudice, bringing respect back to Arrowhead, bringing in natural turf, yada yada.
I liked Marty, but it was definitely time to move on and I wouldn’t trade DV for’im.

ck_IN
10-25-2005, 12:10 PM
<i>His entire strategy revolves around keeping the game so close that one lucky play, good or bad, will win or lose the game...</i>

A lot of that probably had to do with the talent he had to work with. Now whether that was Marty or CP is another question.

Given the choices I think Marty will get there with SD sooner then DV will here. Then again I'm not too sure that SD is a bowl calibure team. I'm pretty sure KC isn't.

htismaqe
10-25-2005, 12:11 PM
From a fans perspective I can see why people would say what they say about Marty but you must not have watched those Cleveland/Denver games.

I'm curious who called the plays in KC when Marty was coach?
I know he's got a pretty good offensive coordinator now and appears to be giving him some frreedom. SD is #2 in the NFL in scoring.

I watched those Cleveland/Denver games.

Marty is still the only coach in history to have two 1000-yard rushers on the same team, in the SAME SEASON and that wasn't in KC.

Some of his ineptitude was obscured by Bernie Kosar, just like it was here when we had Joe Montana. Take away the superstar QB and Marty is exposed for what he is.

htismaqe
10-25-2005, 12:17 PM
<i>His entire strategy revolves around keeping the game so close that one lucky play, good or bad, will win or lose the game...</i>

A lot of that probably had to do with the talent he had to work with. Now whether that was Marty or CP is another question.

Given the choices I think Marty will get there with SD sooner then DV will here. Then again I'm not too sure that SD is a bowl calibure team. I'm pretty sure KC isn't.

He had the talent in Cleveland and still fell short because of his conservatism.

ROYC75
10-25-2005, 02:23 PM
Not sure if we would have gotten by Buffalo on that cold frozen turf that caused the Montana concussion ........ maybe.

IMHO, I think had Montana had came back the next year when Bono's was 13-3 we would of won it all.

GoTrav
10-25-2005, 02:28 PM
<i>His entire strategy revolves around keeping the game so close that one lucky play, good or bad, will win or lose the game...</i>

A lot of that probably had to do with the talent he had to work with. Now whether that was Marty or CP is another question.

Given the choices I think Marty will get there with SD sooner then DV will here. Then again I'm not too sure that SD is a bowl calibure team. I'm pretty sure KC isn't.

Marty plays not to lose. It drives me crazy. You saw it again this year when he "Marty'ed" the game away against Denver.

dsgreene285
10-25-2005, 02:29 PM
Dick w/Chargers...not because of Dick, but because the Chargers are a much better team on paper that the Chiefs.

However, the more I think about it, Dick could probably screw the team up worse than Marty has this year.

tk13
10-25-2005, 02:38 PM
I love Marty, he might be an even better football mind than DV, and I love DV.... problem is though that when it comes down to it and everything's on the line, Marty will play it safe and try to get by, whereas DV will try to step on your throat and finish you. Actually DV is more conservative than he lets on, but he's smart enough to align himself with someone like Al who will balance things out. It's taken Marty 20 some odd years to let someone like Cam Cameron turn things loose a bit, and even then he tightened up in the playoff game last year.

Deberg_1990
10-25-2005, 03:49 PM
It's taken Marty 20 some odd years to let someone like Cam Cameron turn things loose a bit, and even then he tightened up in the playoff game last year.

Exactly....I have no faith in Marty to get the job done. None..not after that playoff game last year against the Jets. Its like he forgot all about the playbook that won them 12 games.

Calcountry
10-25-2005, 04:33 PM
BINGO, if the guy would just loosen up a bit and go for broke a bit more in the playoffs, then he might win a few more playoff games. Until then....no way will he ever get to a Super Bowl. The problem with his playoff philosophy is, all teams in the playoffs are good and dont make mistakes. Thats why they are there! You cant just sit back and wait for a dumb mistake like you can in the regular season.The game of football, and Elway, have abused him so bad that he can't help himself.

milkman
10-25-2005, 08:27 PM
There wasn't much he could do about Byners fumble. I was watching that game as a 14 year old and it surely wasn't his fault. The year before that Elway got that lucky drive. He never had great offensive talent in KC from what I recall. It wasn't his fault his kicker couldn't get the job done last year.

That Byner fumble would have tied the game.
Had it that game gone into OT, there is no doubt in my mind that Marty would have lost to Elway again.

As for that "lucky" drive, there was nothing lucky about it, unless you consider the fact that Elway made Marty his bitch more than any other coach he played against.
Something like 15 of his 4th qtr comeback wins came against Marty.

Having said that it does seem like Marty has the worst luck of any head coach I can remember.

Marty was, is, and always has been, unlucky because he fails to learn, after so many lessons, that you will lose when you play not to lose.

I remember my dad telling me when he took over for the Chiefs, "he'll turn that team around", and he did. Now he's turned SD around.

You wanna talk about conservative though take a look at Bill Parcells and some of his teams. That guy was amazingly lucky to get to those superbowls.

Bill Parcells is lucky, because, unlike Marty, he understands the concept of attacking and playing to win.

Was it Vince Lombardi that siad that teams make their own luck?

Marty and Bill Parcells are living testaments of the truth to that statement.

milkman
10-25-2005, 08:29 PM
If I had my choice, Marty,Gun and Al instead of Dick, Gun and Al.

If I had to make this choice, I would just jump off a bridge.

Hydrae
10-25-2005, 10:09 PM
Dick with that offense in SD would be enough to scare the pants off the rest of the league.

Marty with this team would cause some ho hums.

Skip Towne
10-25-2005, 10:15 PM
Marty's just awful. Now watch him beat our brains in Sunday. He swept us last year.

greg63
10-25-2005, 11:42 PM
…Dick, simply because he has at least been there and won. Marty self destructs in the play-offs. IMO