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View Full Version : Vick doesn't need to be a good passer...


kepp
10-25-2005, 10:46 AM
Who all watched the MNF Countdown on ESPN last night? They spent a good portion of their time trying to convince the viewers that Vick doesn't need to become a good passer to be a great QB. They showed his stats and ran a couple of fake plays on their we-are-too-old-to-play-anymore fake football field. Then, in the middle of the game, Madden and Al go off on a tangent about how the Falcons "just can't find their #1 receiver despite using 2 recent first round picks". Hello...maybe its not the receivers who are not #1 quality.

We haven't beaten the Vick subject like a dead horse recently (not that I remember, anyway), so I thought it was time for another thread. What are your thoughts? Specifically, what do you see as the long-term pros/cons (team-wise) about having a Vick-like QB?

David.
10-25-2005, 10:47 AM
i don't care if he can pass or not, the guy wins football games.

David.
10-25-2005, 10:49 AM
We haven't beaten the Vick subject like a dead horse recently (not that I remember, anyway), so I thought it was time for another thread. What are your thoughts? Specifically, what do you see as the long-term pros/cons (team-wise) about having a Vick-like QB?

Oh, and uh...they'll probably keep going to the playoffs. Plus, he'll sell tickets/jerseys/etc. Everyone leaves happy.

kepp
10-25-2005, 10:52 AM
i don't care if he can pass or not, the guy wins football games.
My question was one of longevity and the Falcons. How long will the Falcons be able to rely almost solely on Vick's legs for wins?

Cochise
10-25-2005, 10:56 AM
i don't care if he can pass or not, the guy wins football games.

It's pretty sad when the best you can say about a player is that they can still win with him on the team. He "just won a game" last night, passing for 100 yards, 0 TD, and 3 INT. 2 YPC on the ground.

Oh, but he ran two into the end zone from 1 yard out, so he's still Jesus in football pads for another week.

I liked his comment about how to have two girlfriends you need to have two cellphones. He might need two lawyers after he gives them the love bumps, too.

David.
10-25-2005, 10:59 AM
It's pretty sad when the best you can say about a player is that they can still win with him on the team. He "just won a game" last night, passing for 100 yards, 0 TD, and 3 INT. 2 YPC on the ground.

Oh, but he ran two into the end zone from 1 yard out, so he's still Jesus in football pads for another week.

I liked his comment about how to have two girlfriends you need to have two cellphones. He might need two lawyers after he gives them the love bumps, too.

meh, I think the way defenses are forced to play him opens up the run for Dunn and Duckett.

Chiefs Pantalones
10-25-2005, 11:01 AM
The Falcons remind me of a college team...

David.
10-25-2005, 11:02 AM
wooo broke 7k D:

Reaper16
10-25-2005, 11:03 AM
The Falcons remind me of a college team...
They resemble last year's Texas squad.

Mr. Laz
10-25-2005, 11:03 AM
i don't think he ever wins a superbowl though



you need a QB that can pass to win at that high a level

StcChief
10-25-2005, 11:10 AM
Jets D? We punked Vick pretty good last year 56-10.

chagrin
10-25-2005, 11:11 AM
I just hate on him like people hated on jesus, and I am jealous of his giant lawn tractor

Cochise
10-25-2005, 11:13 AM
meh, I think the way defenses are forced to play him opens up the run for Dunn and Duckett.

Ducket didn't play. And Dunn had less than 100 yards if you factor out one run. I don't understand how 50 extra rushing yards per game are supposed to make up for lining up a 60 rated QB who only brings you 100 passing yards.

The only lower rated QB's in the league are Orton and Harrington. The only QB with a lower completion percentage is Frerotte. There is no QB who's been starting all year with fewer passing yards.

The team won in spite of him last night and does that more often than not. I don't know why people have a hard time seeing it.

kepp
10-25-2005, 11:31 AM
meh, I think the way defenses are forced to play him opens up the run for Dunn and Duckett.
Yeah, I'm not arguing that he doesn't make his team better in certain ways, but is it worth it? For instance, they have two 1st round WRs because they're trying to find him a good receiver. Three or four years down the road when his legs are gone (or have been taken from him) are those two 1st round picks going to be developed like they could have been with a good passing QB? No way...in fact, with free agency the way it is, will they still even be there? I think there are many more cons than pros to having a Vick-like QB.

Valiant
10-25-2005, 11:44 AM
i don't care if he can pass or not, the guy wins football games.


That defense wins football games... man, you must not have watched that game at all last night... The only reason the last few years they win anything is that defense...

Shit with that reasoning, Dilfer when he was a Raven was the greatest QB ever because he won football games...

Valiant
10-25-2005, 11:49 AM
Yeah, I'm not arguing that he doesn't make his team better in certain ways, but is it worth it? For instance, they have two 1st round WRs because they're trying to find him a good receiver. Three or four years down the road when his legs are gone (or have been taken from him) are those two 1st round picks going to be developed like they could have been with a good passing QB? No way...in fact, with free agency the way it is, will they still even be there? I think there are many more cons than pros to having a Vick-like QB.


Actually if they want to win it all, they should get a real QB and stick Vick and Dunn in the backfield together..

Imagine the team with a normal QB, the two WR and Vick and Dunn in the backfield... Then add their defense, that would be a team to stop... The weakest link on the Falcons offense is Vick...

Chris Meck
10-25-2005, 11:58 AM
Man, guys like this have come along periodically for the last 20 years or so; remember Cunningham's early career with The Eagles?

And everyone gets excited and ooh's and aah's, but the fact is that pocket passers win championships, not running QB's.

The runner-types also don't last long-and how many injuries has Vick already had? Won't be too many more.

Cunningham learned his lesson the second time around; will Vick?

Even Steve Young didn't win it until he learned to run more to buy time behind the LOS than forward.

Since 1980, your SB winning QB's:

Jim Plunkett-pocket passer.
Joe Theismann-pocket passer
Joe Montana-pocket passer
Jim McMahon-pocket passer (if at all)
Phil Simms-pocket passer
Doug Williams-pocket passer
Doub Hostetler-scrambler behind the line, but not really a runner
Mark Rypien-pocket passer, one year wonder
Troy Aikman-pocket passer
Steve Young-didn't win it all until he quit taking off.
Bret Favre-can run, but mostly to buy time to pass downfield
John Elway-see Bret Favre
Trent Dilfer-living statue
Kurt Warner-pocket passer
Brad Johnson-pocket passer
Tom Brady-pocket passer

Did I forget anyone?

There are a few reasons for this:
1) no matter how fast you are, the ball travels further/faster through the air, and without 11 guys chasing it.
2)consistency in an offense is key; running QB's get hurt too often.
3) QB's who rely on their legs too much don't learn to read defenses very well. When in doubt, they take off rather than check down to their 2nd, 3rd, and fourth reads. The ability to find the open man is what keeps a defense honest.

Michael Vick is hugely overrated and will never win a Super Bowl. Period.

Just my opinion, and some history to back it up.

Chris

Tuckdaddy
10-25-2005, 11:59 AM
I hope they never need him to be a good passer becauswe he is probably the worst passer in the league.

|Zach|
10-25-2005, 12:03 PM
I hope they never need him to be a good passer becauswe he is probably the worst passer in the league.
Not as long as Kurt Warner has a job.

ExtremeChief
10-25-2005, 12:10 PM
keep f***ing doubting Ron Mexico!!!

ck_IN
10-25-2005, 12:20 PM
If Atlanta wants to take the next step he'll need to learn to pass. What's interesting is his little brother at Va tech seems to be a very good passer. This leads me to think its just an effort issue.

Vick and his QB coach should spend their summer tossing 100 or so balls a day till Vick improves his accuracy. His arm is fine but he can't hit the broad side of a barn.

GoTrav
10-25-2005, 12:24 PM
I hope they never need him to be a good passer becauswe he is probably the worst passer in the league.

IMO, Vick actually throws a good looking ball. But he throws it way too damn hard and his accuracy is dog sh1t. Half of his throws last night beyond 5 yards were medicine balls to his TE and WR's. Winning in spite of 3 picks is lucky, do that and try to win against a quality opponent.

Cormac
10-25-2005, 12:35 PM
There are many ways to look at it, IMO.

Basically Vick is good for the Falcons (as an organisation). He is the most exciting player in the league, and sells jerseys and tickets like nobody's business.

Having said that, he's far from a great QB. And I don't think that will change, for 2 reasons:

1) He's a prima donna. He doesn't have the work ethic and desire that it takes to improve. JMO. He has an absolute cannon for an arm, but as Black Ice said, he rockets every ball and has no accuracy.

2) Jim Mora Jr. treats him like a prima donna. I think he worships him and is afraid to stand up to him or challenge him.

Vick's 2 biggest fans are Arthur Blank and Jim Mora. As long as they are his bosses, he can continue to perform like he has been. The fact that Atlanta are as good a team as they are with his passing production is astounding. Warrick Dunn is as under-rated a player as there is in the league. And their defense is stellar on its day. Vick is not the key to their success.

JMO.

Cochise
10-25-2005, 12:40 PM
Yeah, doubtless he brings something to the football team. I'm just saying, at what point does it not become worth it?

Interesting idea:

The Falcons have a pretty decent o-line. They have two backs that can catch the ball and run the ball too. They have a great pass-catching tight end. They have some decent but not great WR's.

What if you put Trent Green at the helm of that offense?

Mr. Laz
10-25-2005, 12:43 PM
Vick is the Marty shottenheimer of NFL Quarterbacks.


when it comes to the big games he just isn't good enough.

Garcia Bronco
10-25-2005, 12:45 PM
Jets D? We punked Vick pretty good last year 56-10.

Yeah...you guys punk a bunch of people at home...except in the playoffs...and the Eagles

CupidStunt
10-25-2005, 01:07 PM
Yeah...you guys punk a bunch of people at home

Especially the Broncos.

GoTrav
10-25-2005, 01:50 PM
Yeah...you guys punk a bunch of people at home...except in the playoffs...and the Eagles

how many road games have you won this year? And Donks talking playoffs? OK...