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tk13
10-26-2005, 01:09 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/12996963.htm

Good reviews so far
Surtain and Warfield solid in secondary

By ELIZABETH MERRILL
The Kansas City Star


One trash-talked in his free time, game time, and even told the receiver he was covering to quit whining. The other was so happy to finally suit up that he quietly did his job.

The long-awaited game with Patrick Surtain and Eric Warfield in the same secondary finally happened Friday night at Miami, and, on paper, it appeared to be a success. The Chiefs gave up only 192 passing yards, didn’t watch another receiver put up PlayStation numbers, and left Miami with a 30-20 victory.

Warfield, in his first game back since an NFL suspension, shook off some mid-October rust. Surtain, the highest-paid offseason acquisition, matched up the entire game with Chris Chambers and shut him down for more than three quarters.

But as the team gathered Tuesday after a three-day break, Dick Vermeil sounded like a coach who isn’t ready to hand over a starting job to Warfield. However, Warfield probably will start this week because Dexter McCleon is still out because of a groin injury.

“I think Dexter’s done a good job,” Vermeil said. “The great thing about Dexter is he’s almost mistake-free. No one’s perfect, but from the mental standpoint and the technical side of the scheme and the execution within the scheme, you can play very efficiently with a guy like Dexter back there.

“I mean, he’s lined up and started in two Super Bowls. He’s been there and done that. That’s why I trust him.”

Vermeil also said that he zeroed in on Warfield in Tuesday’s practice — something he normally doesn’t do with a player — and noticed his veteran cornerback working “very hard out there.”

On at least several occasions, Vermeil has expressed his disappointment in Warfield’s down-in-the-dumps attitude at the end of the preseason, when he knew he would be suspended for four games for violating the league’s substance-abuse policy.

But now Warfield is back with fresh legs and a newfound pep, and he seemed perfectly fine splitting practice reps Tuesday with journeyman cornerback Dewayne Washington. Warfield said he had fun playing with the new defense, which has four new starters, and sees a bright future for the secondary.

“The front seven has made it a lot easier for us secondary-wise,” Warfield said. “Those guys up front have really added a lot more pressure. When you get that type of pressure on a quarterback, no matter who you’re playing, you’re going to cause a lot of turnovers.”

The Chiefs rank 30th in the NFL this week in pass defense but are eighth in the league against the run, giving up just 95.5 yards a game. Vermeil said the Chiefs had eight quarterback hits and 18 quarterback pressures against Miami.

Lost in the scramble to beat a hurricane Friday night was the play of Surtain. In a rare move, he was on Chambers all night and essentially shut down the Dolphins’ top receiver. Surtain said he spent the week studying Chambers, a former Dolphins teammate. A few weeks ago, they ran into each other in South Florida and engaged in some good-natured smack.

Chambers was rendered meaningless and had just one catch for 11 yards with 3 minutes to play. Then he hooked up with backup Sage Rosenfels for a 77-yard touchdown with just over 2 minutes to go. Surtain had three deflections and six tackles.

Toward the end of the first half, Surtain thwarted a Chambers touchdown. He wrestled with his old friend for the ball, and the pass fell incomplete in the end zone.

“You know receivers,” Surtain said. “Not just Chris, but they act like every play is a pass-interference call. I guess the play I made in the end zone, he was whining to the referee, but actually he had my jersey. I couldn’t even extend my arms to catch the ball. I told him to quit whining.”

In the days before the game, Surtain had asked for the Chambers matchup. This week, he probably won’t shadow one receiver because the Chargers have too many weapons.

Facing Antonio Gates, Keenan McCardell and running back LaDainian Tomlinson, the defense knows its trip to San Diego will be much tougher.

Warfield is ready. He was one of the most consistent players in the secondary before the suspension, and Chiefs fans salivated over the idea of having Surtain, a Pro Bowler, and Warfield in the starting lineup.

For at least one more week, they’ll get their wish.

“If we can just concentrate on keeping the big plays to a minimum, I think we can really turn this defense around,” Warfield said. “I think we have so far.”

greg63
10-26-2005, 01:21 AM
It's going to be interesting. :D

BigMeatballDave
10-26-2005, 01:28 AM
“I think Dexter’s done a good job,” Vermeil said. “The great thing about Dexter is he’s almost mistake-free.


ROFL

Fruit Ninja
10-26-2005, 01:28 AM
I am glad Surtain finally told gun to let me stick the main guy. None of this play on one side only bullshit.

NJ Chief Fan
10-26-2005, 02:00 AM
either warfield gets 20 picks vs the chargers or were gonna be ****ed with mccleon gettin the starting job back when hes back

Rausch
10-26-2005, 02:14 AM
either warfield gets 20 picks vs the chargers or were gonna be ****ed with mccleon gettin the starting job back when hes back


Dexy won't be back.

You have to remember that anytime DV replaces a guy the guy that's getting replaced always has some mysterious injury to excuse his suckage and cover up the fact he's been demoted...

tk13
10-26-2005, 02:36 AM
Dexy won't be back.

You have to remember that anytime DV replaces a guy the guy that's getting replaced always has some mysterious injury to excuse his suckage and cover up the fact he's been demoted...
Yeah, that's a common trend... especially at the CB position over the last few years. Even when they signed McCleon he was just "supposed to be the nickel", nothing more, then Bartee got hurt and McCleon was suddenly the starter before the season started.

Mecca
10-26-2005, 03:44 AM
Someone should tell Vermiel that Superbowl was 6 years ago.......

It will be amusing though when McCleon is back and playing Nickel and you hear comments like. "Well he's still injured and working his way back".

Dr. Chief
10-26-2005, 05:16 AM
I don't care about his methods, even the talk of Dex getting the starting job back makes my head want to explode.

Wile_E_Coyote
10-26-2005, 05:51 AM
http://www.nfl.com/teams/schedule/MIA

(Home/Away) opponent (first downs) Rushing yrds/ Passing yrds/ Total yrds (points)

(H)Den (21)...151...275...426 (34)

(A)NYJ (15)....66...169...235 (7)

(H)CAR (16)...144...171...315 (27)

(A)BUF (16)...113...210...323 (14)

(A)BUC (13)....64...243...307 (13)

(H) KC (9)....94...192...286 (20)

donkhater
10-26-2005, 06:32 AM
There is another aspect of it, too. When McCLeon does come back from injury, he will likely play in a Nickel role, splitting duties with Sapp. Why should Vermiel, the as head coach, throw fuel on the fire that McCLeon sucks? If he continues to support Dexter in the media, he'll come back and play with more confidence.

I don't think McCleon is awful. In fact, I think he probably is the quicker of the DB's that we have and would be suited fine to cover a slot receiver. He has shown good coverage on downfield throws.

He's just not physical enough to play a bump and run style with some of the bigger receivers and jam them on the outside and, as a result, gets burned on slants and jump ball situations because of his lack of strength and size.

BigRedChief
10-26-2005, 07:23 AM
Surtain, the highest-paid offseason acquisition, matched up the entire game with Chris Chambers and shut him down for more than three quarters.


Whats up with that? What the hell is Gunn thinking?Why didn't he match up with T.O.? Moss? instead of them getting 170 yards+ on us?

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 07:36 AM
I just wish for once Vermeil would come out and tell the fans the truth. He owes to them, and if he destroys a players' morale, or hell the morale of the whole team, in the process, that would would be awesome too...

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 07:37 AM
Surtain, the highest-paid offseason acquisition, matched up the entire game with Chris Chambers and shut him down for more than three quarters.


Whats up with that? What the hell is Gunn thinking?Why didn't he match up with T.O.? Moss? instead of them getting 170 yards+ on us?

Because Gunther is a stubborn, senile bastard...

milkman
10-26-2005, 07:43 AM
I just wish for once Vermeil would come out and tell the fans the truth. He owes to them, and if he destroys a players' morale, or hell the morale of the whole team, in the process, that would would be awesome too...

Wait a minute.
Wasn't everyone saying they loved how honest Dick is just a couple of seasons ago?

When he trys to sell this McPassOn plays mistake free crap, he just makes me want to beat him about the head and shoulders with a baseball bat.

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-26-2005, 07:46 AM
Surtain, the highest-paid offseason acquisition, matched up the entire game with Chris Chambers and shut him down for more than three quarters.


Whats up with that? What the hell is Gunn thinking?Why didn't he match up with T.O.? Moss? instead of them getting 170 yards+ on us?
Apparently putting your best corner on their best reciever is a concept that is really hard to understand.

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-26-2005, 07:48 AM
if he destroys a players' morale, or hell the morale of the whole team, in the process, that would would be awesome too...
good plan.

BigRedChief
10-26-2005, 07:51 AM
Apparently putting your best corner on their best reciever is a concept that is really hard to understand.

:banghead:

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 07:54 AM
Wait a minute.
Wasn't everyone saying they loved how honest Dick is just a couple of seasons ago?

When he trys to sell this McPassOn plays mistake free crap, he just makes me want to beat him about the head and shoulders with a baseball bat.

Seriously, what do you want him to say?

Or better yet, why do you care?

Obviously, 90% of the shit he says has ZERO BEARING on what happens on the field, so why not just let him ramble and ignore him?

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 07:54 AM
good plan.

I was being sarcastic.

cmh6476
10-26-2005, 07:54 AM
Hey D!ck. Maybe McCleon doesn't make mental mistakes. But he lacks size and athleticism and is beaten constantly. Yeah, maybe he is right there. But he's still fockin getting beat! Quit with the fockin loyalty to Dexter and get your players out there!!!

I also find it interesting that Surtain asked to cover Chambers. usually, the Chiefs go with a strong-side CB, and a weak-side CB, not switching them up. I'm wondering if they'll do this again in the future

StcChief
10-26-2005, 07:56 AM
There is another aspect of it, too. When McCLeon does come back from injury, he will likely play in a Nickel role, splitting duties with Sapp. Why should Vermiel, the as head coach, throw fuel on the fire that McCLeon sucks? If he continues to support Dexter in the media, he'll come back and play with more confidence.

I don't think McCleon is awful. In fact, I think he probably is the quicker of the DB's that we have and would be suited fine to cover a slot receiver. He has shown good coverage on downfield throws.

He's just not physical enough to play a bump and run style with some of the bigger receivers and jam them on the outside and, as a result, gets burned on slants and jump ball situations because of his lack of strength and size.
Agreed. Just call him 'Nickel' McCleon. cover 3rd/4th receiver.

McCleon in 1999 Rams. team too long ago to matter, not relivent in todays game with bump /run rule changes make a small CB a team hazard as well.

BigRedChief
10-26-2005, 08:00 AM
I don't understand an NFL coaches obsession with a small CB. Remember Marty and his obsession with Mighty Mouse. Getting up and flexing when he stopped a 2 yard pass play.:shake:

milkman
10-26-2005, 08:01 AM
Seriously, what do you want him to say?

Or better yet, why do you care?

Obviously, 90% of the shit he says has ZERO BEARING on what happens on the field, so why not just let him ramble and ignore him?

How about "I have confidence in McPassOn" without the "mistake free" BS.

And I care because he's the HC of the team that I am a passionate fan of.

Dr. Facebook Fever
10-26-2005, 08:01 AM
I was being sarcastic.
I know. So was I.

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 08:06 AM
How about "I have confidence in McPassOn" without the "mistake free" BS.

And I care because he's the HC of the team that I am a passionate fan of.

I'm passionate about the team. But I honestly only care about whether they win or lose. He could tell me that McCleon has fuggin wings and can fly to the moon, as long as we win.

That's primarily because I believe Gunther is 100% in control of the defense and if McCleon plays, it's his decision, not Vermeil's.

Brock
10-26-2005, 08:06 AM
Wait a minute.
Wasn't everyone saying they loved how honest Dick is just a couple of seasons ago?

Are you kidding? People have been calling Dick a liar for 3+ years. I stopped listening to anything he said after year 2.

jidar
10-26-2005, 08:10 AM
Dick isn't responsible for your feelings folks. He has to coach a football team, and coming out and saying your backup quality players suck probably isn't a move any coach in the NFL is going to make.
The bottom line is Warfield is in now and he's going to stay in, everyone can see that and there is no good reason to come out in the media and say "McCleon sucks", least of all so you guys can sit around and high five each other.

acasas4
10-26-2005, 08:15 AM
It doesn't matter what DV tells the media. As long as Warfield is healthy he will be the starting CB.(I hope :( )

milkman
10-26-2005, 08:17 AM
I'm passionate about the team. But I honestly only care about whether they win or lose. He could tell me that McCleon has fuggin wings and can fly to the moon, as long as we win.

That's primarily because I believe Gunther is 100% in control of the defense and if McCleon plays, it's his decision, not Vermeil's.

I agree with you that Gun is making the decisions.

What I'm getting at, is that the HC is trying to sell the fans a bill of goods, treating us like dumbasses that have never watched the game of football.

Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

KCTitus
10-26-2005, 08:20 AM
I agree with you that Gun is making the decisions.

What I'm getting at, is that the HC is trying to sell the fans a bill of goods, treating us like dumbasses that have never watched the game of football.

Don't piss on my shoes and tell me it's raining.

You seem to have DV figured out...now the trick is if you KNOW your shoes are getting pissed on, you move on rather than stand there and complain about it.

cmh6476
10-26-2005, 08:24 AM
I don't understand an NFL coaches obsession with a small CB. Remember Marty and his obsession with Mighty Mouse. Getting up and flexing when he stopped a 2 yard pass play.:shake:
I just now had a guy call me on my cell asking me "hey, you remember that guy they called mighty mouse? What was his name?"

and I just drew a blank :banghead:

Help? :(

KCTitus
10-26-2005, 08:26 AM
I just now had a guy call me on my cell asking me "hey, you remember that guy they called mighty mouse? What was his name?"

and I just drew a blank :banghead:

Help? :(

Mark MacMillan

Lzen
10-26-2005, 08:28 AM
When he trys to sell this McPassOn plays mistake free crap, he just makes me want to beat him about the head and shoulders with a baseball bat.

No kidding. It's pretty obvious to everyone that McCleon has not been getting it done. IMO, he's not the right kind of player to play a man-to-man and bump & run style defense. He plays a zone defense alright. At this point, I don't even know if he would be better than Sapp in the nickel.

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 08:32 AM
No kidding. It's pretty obvious to everyone that McCleon has not been getting it done. IMO, he's not the right kind of player to play a man-to-man and bump & run style defense. He plays a zone defense alright. At this point, I don't even know if he would be better than Sapp in the nickel.

Actually he deosn't play a zone defense alright. He just sucks.

Lzen
10-26-2005, 08:33 AM
I don't understand an NFL coaches obsession with a small CB. Remember Marty and his obsession with Mighty Mouse. Getting up and flexing when he stopped a 2 yard pass play.:shake:


I think he had the little dog syndrome. You know, like the little chihuahua that wants to tear your ankles off just to show you that his size isn't a factor. Actually, Mighty Mouse was pretty good in his first season with KC (1997), but he went to crap the next season.

BigRedChief
10-26-2005, 08:37 AM
I think he had the little dog syndrome. You know, like the little chihuahua that wants to tear your ankles off just to show you that his size isn't a factor. Actually, Mighty Mouse was pretty good in his first season with KC (1997), but he went to crap the next season.

1997 he had a little help from his teammates to look good. He always sucked. :harumph:

Iowanian
10-26-2005, 08:42 AM
hey bigsexy....

What do you think about this Chic reporter and her take on Surtain and Miami vs yours?

KCTitus
10-26-2005, 08:45 AM
hey bigsexy....

What do you think about this Chic reporter and her take on Surtain and Miami vs yours?

I missed that one...must have been choice stuff. Is it still online?

ROYC75
10-26-2005, 09:00 AM
Because Gunther is a stubborn, senile bastard...


I was convinced of this last year during preseason.

Lzen
10-26-2005, 09:13 AM
1997 he had a little help from his teammates to look good. He always sucked. :harumph:

Didn't he have like 6 interceptions that season? I don't know how his teammates helped him with that.

Dave Lane
10-26-2005, 09:22 AM
Wait a minute.
Wasn't everyone saying they loved how honest Dick is just a couple of seasons ago?

When he trys to sell this McPassOn plays mistake free crap, he just makes me want to beat him about the head and shoulders with a baseball bat.

Well technically he is mistake free HOWEVER he can't make the play when he executes properly.

Dave

BigRedChief
10-26-2005, 09:30 AM
Didn't he have like 6 interceptions that season? I don't know how his teammates helped him with that.

Don't cloud the issues with facts. What are you some sort of commie! :p

Iowanian
10-26-2005, 09:56 AM
I missed that one...must have been choice stuff. Is it still online?


I don't know, but bigsexy had an article that basically said that Surtain got Owned in Miami. good stuff.

...good stuff he must have been smoking that is.

Calcountry
10-26-2005, 10:49 AM
I just wish for once Vermeil would come out and tell the fans the truth. He owes to them, and if he destroys a players' morale, or hell the morale of the whole team, in the process, that would would be awesome too...It might be frightening to see the Chiefs play "pissed off".

Brock
10-26-2005, 11:05 AM
I missed that one...must have been choice stuff. Is it still online?

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=127190&highlight=surtain

Sam
10-26-2005, 11:20 AM
It was actually kind of interesting how McCleon gets hurt the same week Warfield comes back and gets a game time decision to start opposite of Surtain who's asked to go heads up, a week in advance, against a former teammate with whom he's familiar with and had been talking smack to.

I've asked this before in another thread but don't know if I got an answer. Does anyone know IF last year the Chiefs corners played only one side or the other and if so, which side did Warfield play? Just wondering if Surtain took his usual side of the field.

And another one, was the decision to not play Surtain full time against Moss, TO and Smith more because of McCleon not being able to go both ways more than Surtain's not preferring to?

greg63
10-26-2005, 11:23 AM
You seem to have DV figured out...now the trick is if you KNOW your shoes are getting pissed on, you move on rather than stand there and complain about it.:D
Yup, bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is that we are 4-2 and as long as we continue to win I could care less what Vermeil says in a press conference.

htismaqe
10-26-2005, 12:15 PM
It was actually kind of interesting how McCleon gets hurt the same week Warfield comes back and gets a game time decision to start opposite of Surtain who's asked to go heads up, a week in advance, against a former teammate with whom he's familiar with and had been talking smack to.

I've asked this before in another thread but don't know if I got an answer. Does anyone know IF last year the Chiefs corners played only one side or the other and if so, which side did Warfield play? Just wondering if Surtain took his usual side of the field.

And another one, was the decision to not play Surtain full time against Moss, TO and Smith more because of McCleon not being able to go both ways more than Surtain's not preferring to?

They played sides last year as well. It's Gunther's defense.

As for your 2nd question, only Gunther can answer that. And his answer would likely include something about beards or ripping off sleeves.

Sam
10-26-2005, 12:27 PM
They played sides last year as well. It's Gunther's defense.

As for your 2nd question, only Gunther can answer that. And his answer would likely include something about beards or ripping off sleeves.

Thanks!