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View Full Version : How would you stop the Charger's offense?


Tigermoose
10-26-2005, 09:57 AM
I think the Eagles did this.

Assign a safety (Knight?) to spy on LT. Have him play closer to the LOS then normal (almost like a 4th linebacker).

In straight man-to-man, this puts more pressure on our corners. Is Warfield up to the task? Will the chargers be able to exploit this with a play action pattern to Knight's usual side?

You could play this as a hybrid zone, with Knight playing man on LT.

What are your thoughts?

Hoover
10-26-2005, 10:00 AM
I would run the ball 30 times and keep them off the field.

Hoover
10-26-2005, 10:03 AM
I would toy with the idea of playing a nickel with Woods covering Gates, then if Gates is staying in to run block Woods would be there for run support.

Just a thought

Tigermoose
10-26-2005, 10:05 AM
I would run the ball 30 times and keep them off the field.


I think the best way to make sure we can run the ball 30 times and keep them off of the field is to force the Charger's Offense to go 3 and out. ;)

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 10:06 AM
run the ball on offense.
rattle D-B early and dominate LT at the line.

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 10:07 AM
I would toy with the idea of playing a nickel with Woods covering Gates, then if Gates is staying in to run block Woods would be there for run support.

Just a thought

he scares you that bad?

cookster50
10-26-2005, 10:08 AM
Send them on a party boat the day before the game.

Tigermoose
10-26-2005, 10:08 AM
I would toy with the idea of playing a nickel with Woods covering Gates, then if Gates is staying in to run block Woods would be there for run support.

Just a thought

Good idea. Now that I think of it, when I was playing the Chargers on Madden 06 I was getting my butt handed to me until I played a nickel with pressure on the flats and LOS.

dsgreene285
10-26-2005, 10:11 AM
I wouldn't spy on LT, but I would put eight in the box for most of the game. Obviously, this puts all of the pressure on Surtain, Warfield and Knight/Wesley, but I think that gives us the best shot at winning this game.

petegz28
10-26-2005, 10:12 AM
Stop the run. Cover Gates. Hit Breezy. Run the ball down thier throats and then exploit their secondary with play action.

Pretty standard. Just have to want it more than they do is all.

Hoover
10-26-2005, 10:14 AM
he scares you that bad?
its not just Gates, its Gates and LT. Spying a a Saftie on Gates also would help with the run game. If Brees beats us by throwing to the WRs then the deserve to win. LT and Gates is their offense

dsgreene285
10-26-2005, 10:16 AM
its not just Gates, its Gates and LT. Spying a a Saftie on Gates also would help with the run game. If Brees beats us by throwing to the WRs then the deserve to win. LT and Gates is their offense

I agree...this supports my eight (sometimes 9) in the box theory.

milkman
10-26-2005, 10:17 AM
its not just Gates, its Gates and LT. Spying a a Saftie on Gates also would help with the run game. If Brees beats us by throwing to the WRs then the deserve to win. LT and Gates is their offense

I agree, but if Woods is covering Gates, then Gates will have a career day.

Cormac
10-26-2005, 10:18 AM
The way we'll beat the Chargers will be with our Offense, IMO. I agree with Hoover. We need to come out and RUN the ball and run it hard. We should approach the game the same way we did last season's Baltimore and Atlanta games, and last week's Miami game. Run the ball, control the clock, control the LOS and put together 12-14 play drives. If that happens we could win.....even if we don't get a stellar defensive performance. I'll be impressed if we hold SD to less than 24 points. I'm excited about the potential of our D, but we need to rely on a top-tier offensive performance to win this one.

JMO.

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 10:20 AM
its not just Gates, its Gates and LT. Spying a a Saftie on Gates also would help with the run game. If Brees beats us by throwing to the WRs then the deserve to win. LT and Gates is their offense


IMO id put as much pressure of DB(midget that he is) at the line and let our front 7 work it out.
Now i would possibly give them a billion diffrent looks w/ knight since drunky Mcdrinkstomuch is back.

Hoover
10-26-2005, 10:24 AM
I agree, but if Woods is covering Gates, then Gates will have a career day.
I would give him a little help from our FS and SS.

milkman
10-26-2005, 10:27 AM
I would give him a little help from our FS and SS.

I would like to see DJ finally show some of that coverage ability he is reputed to have, with help from a safety.

Hit Gates off the line and knock him off his route.

Archie F. Swin
10-26-2005, 10:32 AM
"How would you stop the Charger's?"

I would make Marty Schottenheimer their coa....oh wait

HemiEd
10-26-2005, 10:38 AM
I would offer a suggestion that we do what Denver did to us: We would need to make sure that at least two of the following players are in the game on defense as backups.
1) Bartee
2) Griffen
3) Grigsby
4) Scanlon
5) Washington
When the whistle blows, ignore it. These guys keep pounding Brees, if one of them gets ejected, we can deal with it.
Heck, we may get lucky enough to only get one late hit called.

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 10:46 AM
I would offer a suggestion that we do what Denver did to us: We would need to make sure that at least two of the following players are in the game on defense as backups.
1) Bartee
2) Griffen
3) Grigsby
4) Scanlon
5) Washington
When the whistle blows, ignore it. These guys keep pounding Brees, if one of them gets ejected, we can deal with it.
Heck, we may get lucky enough to only get one late hit called.


i hope thats a joke bro-i want KC to win w/ equal parts confidence and a scared to be beaten attitude. not by cheating and hurting people on purpose.

HemiEd
10-26-2005, 10:48 AM
i hope thats a joke bro-i want KC to win w/ equal parts confidence and a scared to be beaten attitude. not by cheating and hurting people on purpose.

actually it is more of a dig at what Denver did on the Monday night game.

B_Ambuehl
10-26-2005, 11:20 AM
I would toy with the idea of playing a nickel with Woods covering Gates, then if Gates is staying in to run block Woods would be there for run support.

Just a thought
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


he scares you that bad?

I'd say other then Moss he's the toughest cover in the NFL right now. You can put someone fast on him but he jumps too well and catches anything around him so that won't work. When he runs his routes his moves are extremely good and he can get open anytime he wants against any linebacker in the NFL DJ, Bulluck, Bruschi (insert whatever hyped up coverage linebacker you want here) included.

Eric Parker is extremely hard to cover as well.

Definitely a tough offense to match up with and I don't think they've come close to peaking yet either which is pretty scary. They have better personnel then we had last year with the same type of capabilities so that oughta give you an idea. Like DV says, we could play our best game and still lose.

The way you beat San Diego is don't turn the ball over, key in on the run, and generate pressure in the backfield. If you wanna stop the run effectively you're gonna have to be one on one in the secondary but you can't give up big plays which is easier said then done.

milkman
10-26-2005, 11:35 AM
I'd say other then Moss he's the toughest cover in the NFL right now. You can put someone fast on him but he jumps too well and catches anything around him so that won't work. When he runs his routes his moves are extremely good and he can get open anytime he wants against any linebacker in the NFL DJ, Bulluck, Bruschi (insert whatever hyped up coverage linebacker you want here) included.

This is why you double him up with a safety.

Eric Parker is extremely hard to cover as well.

The Chargers actually have a pretty good group of receivers in Parker, McCardell, and Reche Caldwell, who was really finally starting to make waves before he was injured last season.

Surtain and Warfield will match up pretty well with their top 2, but Sapp is going to have his hands full in the slot.

Definitely a tough offense to match up with and I don't think they've come close to peaking yet either which is pretty scary. They have better personnel then we had last year with the same type of capabilities so that oughta give you an idea. Like DV says, we could play our best game and still lose.

The way you beat San Diego is don't turn the ball over, key in on the run, and generate pressure in the backfield. If you wanna stop the run effectively you're gonna have to be one on one in the secondary but you can't give up big plays which is easier said then done.

The one area we can exploit is the O-Line.
While they are better than the group that was there a couple of years ago, they still aren't a dominating line.

The front four/seven have to get quick pressure on Brees and make him pass before he wants to.

Contain LdT and pressure Brees is key to a winning D performance.

B_Ambuehl
10-26-2005, 11:42 AM
This is why you double him up with a safety.

If you take your safeties out of their normal alignment that's a very good way to get beat for 60+ yard TDs vs their WRs.

milkman
10-26-2005, 11:47 AM
If you take your safeties out of their normal alignment that's a very good way to get beat for 60+ yard TDs vs their WRs.

I'd take my chances with a weak armed Brees, Surtain and Warfield in man, and especially if I can get quick pressure.

Mr. Laz
10-26-2005, 11:49 AM
play a zone with shallow safeties

It keeps all your guys facing the line of scrimmage to stop the run

then i man up on gates with one guy ... i probably yank wesley out of the lineup and run with an extra cornerback

dewayne washington and surtain at cornerback


Warfield mans up on Gates all over the field


Press the line of scrimmage and attack ... remind you defensive lineman to keep their heads up and be ready to raise their hands to block the quick pass when they can't get to the QB.

force Brees to beat you deep ... make sure that your outside linebackers are very aware of Tomlinson coming out of the backfield for passes.



Pray that Reche Caldwell doesn't kill us too much

jspchief
10-26-2005, 11:53 AM
The one thing we have going for us is our LBs haven't needed much safety help in stopping the run. That should help us play Gates tougher. We need to make sure and jam him at the line every opportunity we get. KC should have volumes of ways to play a TE, because we've seen how teams play Gonzo for the last 8 years.

IMO, the biggest key will be our DT play. Denver got pressure by collapsing the pocket up the middle. SD's O-line isn't that great, so we need to get as much pressure as possible from our front four.

Calcountry
10-26-2005, 12:10 PM
The way we'll beat the Chargers will be with our Offense, IMO. I agree with Hoover. We need to come out and RUN the ball and run it hard. We should approach the game the same way we did last season's Baltimore and Atlanta games, and last week's Miami game. Run the ball, control the clock, control the LOS and put together 12-14 play drives. If that happens we could win.....even if we don't get a stellar defensive performance. I'll be impressed if we hold SD to less than 24 points. I'm excited about the potential of our D, but we need to rely on a top-tier offensive performance to win this one.

JMO.Except on our opening drive. I am quite sure that the SD brain trust will be looking for us to run it early and often. I mean, if you guys can figure it out, I am sure they can as well. The play action fake toss sweep left with a 20-30 yard pass route as the primary ought to be our first play from scrimage.

Sam
10-26-2005, 12:27 PM
The front seven has to hold LT at or below his average numbers against the Chiefs. J. Allen has to not crash down the line at the snap and he needs to be aware of LT swinging out into the flat, I'm sure Marty will know that he's been beaten with that many times. How about using Surtain on McCardell, Warfield on Gates and either Washington or Sapp on their #2 in the nickle.

Mr. Laz
10-26-2005, 12:28 PM
-

philfree
10-26-2005, 12:29 PM
Jeff Galouli(sp?) and a Lousville Slugger!

PhilFree:arrow:

dsgreene285
10-26-2005, 12:32 PM
The front seven has to hold LT at or below his average numbers against the Chiefs. J. Allen has to not crash down the line at the snap and he needs to be aware of LT swinging out into the flat, I'm sure Marty will know that he's been beaten with that many times. How about using Surtain on McCardell, Warfield on Gates and either Washington or Sapp on their #2 in the nickle.

I believe that is exactly what we have to do, with no deep help. That will leave us with 8 in the box. That is what Philly did and I believe Warfield and Surtain are at least as good as their corners.

None of this works, however, unless we are getting some pressure on Brees when he is passing.

B_Ambuehl
10-26-2005, 12:45 PM
If we try to defend SD like Philly did Brees will throw for 350 + yards easy. The eagles are much better at creating pressure and even as good as they were they still got outplayed by the Chargers passing game. Hell, as bad as their running game was against philly Brees still threw for nearly 300 yards and had his team in position to win the game twice down the stretch but they get a blocked kick and a fumble.

Sam
10-26-2005, 12:48 PM
-

I like that idea.

Mr. Laz
10-26-2005, 12:49 PM
Hell, as bad as their running game was against philly Brees still threw for nearly 300 yards and had his team in position to win the game twice down the stretch but they get a blocked kick and a fumble.
isn't that because philly's offense sucked and kept the chargers in the game?

Mr. Laz
10-26-2005, 12:53 PM
I like that idea.
thank you ..


it gives us 8 men in the box unless Gates splits out wide but still keeps our coverage guys on the field. It would force the charges to A) run right up the middle or B) throw the ball long


our best chance imo

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 01:02 PM
-


aint that called the 46 defense?:)

Warrior5
10-26-2005, 01:19 PM
Gates is not the only worry I have...add in McCardell, Caldwell, and Tomlinson, and I'm amazed they haven't wracked up more scores like they did against NY and NE.

The four teams that have held the Chargers under 24 points (and losses) are Dallas, Denver, Pittsburgh, and Philly; all very good defenses that are arguably much better than the Chiefs.

This one comes down to more than just playing mistake-free football; Vermiel and crew must not only come up with a gameplan that keeps the Chargers O off the field, but also a D scheme that attacks the Charger O weaknesses (?) and forces turnovers.

Calcountry
10-26-2005, 01:23 PM
isn't that because philly's offense sucked and kept the chargers in the game?This questions begs for an inverse thread titled: "What must San Diego do to shut down our offense"?

NJ Chief Fan
10-26-2005, 01:36 PM
dj spy lt all day, surtain on mccardell and have warfield on gates

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 01:47 PM
dj spy lt all day, surtain on mccardell and have warfield on gates
a 'spy' leaves a players shoulders turned away from the line of scrimage and just makes a hole somewhere else.
its a show of weakness-worse than the blitz.

philfree
10-26-2005, 01:51 PM
Doesn't DJ have the ability to cover Gates? I won't be suprised when Gun has both DJ and Mitchell on Gates on various plays. Sometimes one on one and sometimes doubled up. This is where I thought a player like DJ would be a big help to our D.

PhilFree:arrow:

Cormac
10-26-2005, 02:00 PM
Gates is not the only worry I have...add in McCardell, Caldwell, and Tomlinson, and I'm amazed they haven't wracked up more scores like they did against NY and NE.

The four teams that have held the Chargers under 24 points (and losses) are Dallas, Denver, Pittsburgh, and Philly; all very good defenses that are arguably much better than the Chiefs.


Good post.

I agree, and that is why we have to beat the Chargers with our O. If those 4 teams defenses keep the Chargers under 24, I will be pleasantly surprised if ours can, in their house, where we always seem to play badly. Our best chance of holding them to 24 points or less, is to keep their TOP to 25 mins or less.

bunny, every team knows we run the ball. The key is, that when healthy, they can't stop us. For that reason, I think we should stay away from the cutesy fake-end-around-stuff, and go with what works. A steady diet of power running plays between the tackles and around left end, some play-action passing, and timely screens, and we have a chance.

The way our D stops the Chargers is if our O makes their lives easy, by keeping SD on their back foot.

JMO.

Mr. Laz
10-26-2005, 02:03 PM
aint that called the 46 defense?:)
kinda ...

that's basically the attitude/setup that philly used to stop the chargers


warfield has the size and speed to match up with Gates imo


can washington stay with McCardell?

Chieftain58
10-26-2005, 02:14 PM
It all starts with LT, do the same thing as the Eagles did!!!!!!!

Kyle401
10-26-2005, 02:16 PM
kinda ...

that's basically the attitude/setup that philly used to stop the chargers


warfield has the size and speed to match up with Gates imo


can washington stay with McCardell?

I think Washington has a better shot at staying with McCardell than Eric Parker. McCardell is not as fast or quick in and out of his breaks as he once was. He is still very good, but he relies more on precision and experience than raw athleticism. This should be the type of WR that Washington matches up the best against as he no longer has the athletic ability to hang with a guy like Parker.

Count Alex's Losses
10-26-2005, 02:16 PM
Man up and put a double-team on Tomlinson and Gates. Not both on the same down, rotate the double team. I think we have the personnel on D to match up with SD, if DJ can effectively cover Gates that is.

Count Alex's Losses
10-26-2005, 02:19 PM
Mmm, sorry guys. Warfield on Gates? No way. This is how I'd do it.

Surtain - McCardell
Warfield - Parker
DJ - Gates

Coogs
10-26-2005, 03:44 PM
The way we'll beat the Chargers will be with our Offense, IMO. I agree with Hoover. We need to come out and RUN the ball and run it hard. We should approach the game the same way we did last season's Baltimore and Atlanta games, and last week's Miami game. Run the ball, control the clock, control the LOS and put together 12-14 play drives. If that happens we could win.....even if we don't get a stellar defensive performance. I'll be impressed if we hold SD to less than 24 points. I'm excited about the potential of our D, but we need to rely on a top-tier offensive performance to win this one.

JMO.

Yep!

Chiefnj
10-26-2005, 03:46 PM
Brees folded against Denver when they attacked him in the second half. Have a spy on LT and attack Drew.

MOhillbilly
10-26-2005, 04:10 PM
Brees folded against Denver when they attacked him in the second half. Have a spy on LT and attack Drew.

Whos gonna spy LT when he shucks and jives like he does.
Play team defense.

ferrarispider95
10-26-2005, 04:11 PM
Revert to plan b
Have scanlon pick a fight with lt in pregame warmups


Come on guys do your homework

Oxford
10-26-2005, 04:22 PM
Where is LT the most effective? Inside the tackles, sweeps, or
screens/draws? I don't think the Chiefs have to stop him, just limit him (essentially take away the 50 yard TD backbreaker). If he is most effective on the edge, the the 3-4 or 3-3-5 (extra safety/cb) is the way I'd go. If he is an inside runner, then 4-3 is the way. Brees alone will not do the job........

Tribal Warfare
10-26-2005, 04:34 PM
I believe KC defense will do a very servicable job against the run. The issue I fear is the long passes over the middle to Gates where Wesley and Knight occupy, and the quick out and slant patterns that McCardell will run. To prevent any of the horrid possibilities that could go wrong. It'll starts and ends with the D-lines disicipline to the scheme, and of course making key plays to close Brees passing lanes and options are critical.

milkman
10-26-2005, 04:40 PM
Where is LT the most effective? Inside the tackles, sweeps, or
screens/draws? I don't think the Chiefs have to stop him, just limit him (essentially take away the 50 yard TD backbreaker). If he is most effective on the edge, the the 3-4 or 3-3-5 (extra safety/cb) is the way I'd go. If he is an inside runner, then 4-3 is the way. Brees alone will not do the job........

The problem you face in trying to contain LdT is that he has the power to run inside, and the speed to get around the edges.
Add the fact that he's elusive and you have the most complete RB in the NFL, and the reason that someone mentions the importance of staying disciplined within the scheme.

NJ Chief Fan
10-26-2005, 05:16 PM
ok lets get serious now...lt2 was a no factor in the philly game...hes gonna get his yards this week...we dont have the personel to stop lt2 like the eagles did...as long as we shut down the passing game we have a chance, we have to get to brees early and often get into his head force him to make mistakes and more then likely he will fold

Oxford
10-27-2005, 08:44 AM
ok lets get serious now...lt2 was a no factor in the philly game...hes gonna get his yards this week...we dont have the personel to stop lt2 like the eagles did...as long as we shut down the passing game we have a chance, we have to get to brees early and often get into his head force him to make mistakes and more then likely he will fold

In other words, kill Brees which means that Rivers is the QB, then play 8 in the box (because they will have a limited passing game). It doesn't work because the Chiefs have always made emergency rookie QB's look like the second coming of Johhny Unitas. Using this scenario, we'll have to score 35 to win.

jspchief
10-27-2005, 08:47 AM
Mmm, sorry guys. Warfield on Gates? No way. This is how I'd do it.

Surtain - McCardell
Warfield - Parker
DJ - GatesHave you watched DJ in pass coverage this year? he's been pretty bad. Gates would humiliate him. I realize DJ was good in coverage in college, but he has been dismal for us so far. That's a bad match-up.

Mr. Laz
10-27-2005, 11:05 AM
Have you watched DJ in pass coverage this year? he's been pretty bad. Gates would humiliate him. I realize DJ was good in coverage in college, but he has been dismal for us so far. That's a bad match-up.
yep...


that's why i say warfield on Gates


Gates - warfield
Surtain - parker
Washington - McCardell


washington has the experience and knowledge, he just lacks the speed. McCardell is similiar ... should be a decent matchup.

Simplex3
10-27-2005, 11:09 AM
its not just Gates, its Gates and LT. Spying a a Saftie on Gates also would help with the run game. If Brees beats us by throwing to the WRs then the deserve to win. LT and Gates is their offense
Didn't McCardell have a 3 TD game earlier this year?

Simplex3
10-27-2005, 11:16 AM
isn't that because philly's offense sucked and kept the chargers in the game?
Don't give any credit to the SD def.

Simplex3
10-27-2005, 11:19 AM
It all starts with LT, do the same thing as the Eagles did!!!!!!!
The Eagles lose that game without the luckiest bounce in the history of football.

Extra Point
10-27-2005, 11:29 AM
Win by stopping the run. Stack on D-Line, tighten up CB's and bump receivers outside, bookend the DE's and make Brees the meat in a sh*t sandwich.

jspchief
10-27-2005, 11:31 AM
Personally, I think winning this gam has more to do with our offense hitting on all cylinders than anything else. If we can score early and put the pressure on Brees, it will allow us to dictate what we do defensively.

SquirrellyBastard
10-27-2005, 11:35 AM
Personally, I think winning this gam has more to do with our offense hitting on all cylinders than anything else. If we can score early and put the pressure on Brees, it will allow us to dictate what we do defensively.

I agree..

Mr. Laz
10-27-2005, 11:40 AM
Don't give any credit to the SD def.
who said the diego defense doesn't deserve any credit?


the point was that IMO the philly defense did a good enough job to win the game.


if their offense had done better against the charger defense the game would of basically been over before the 4th quarter even began.

McNabb played terrible(with the help of the SD defense)

John_Wayne
10-27-2005, 11:58 AM
I would run the ball 30 times and keep them off the field. YES!! EXACTLY!! Maybe we should run 40 times like Pittsburg. We've got two talented RBs that can chew up yard and the clock. I think our offense is just as potent when we focus on the run as it is when we focus on the pass. Sanders / Vermiel have to realize that we are a running team this year. Saunders should slow down with all of his fancy schmancy schemes and just pound the living daylighs out of the opponents.

Sam
10-27-2005, 12:01 PM
LT2 typically doesn't run for much yardage against the Chiefs.

One game vs. KC last year, 21 carries 46 yds, longest run 14 yds. But, he scored 2 TD's.

Two games in `03, 32 carries 140 yds, longest run a 55 yarder and 1 TD.

All three games 20 receptions for 101 yds.

htismaqe
10-27-2005, 12:07 PM
YES!! EXACTLY!! Maybe we should run 40 times like Pittsburg. We've got two talented RBs that can chew up yard and the clock. I think our offense is just as potent when we focus on the run as it is when we focus on the pass. Sanders / Vermiel have to realize that we are a running team this year. Saunders should slow down with all of his fancy schmancy schemes and just pound the living daylighs out of the opponents.

The strength of the Chargers defense is up front, versus the run. The only weak link on their defense is in the backfield.

If we want to beat them, we're going to have to remain balanced and we're going to have to pass the ball down the field.

MOhillbilly
10-27-2005, 12:35 PM
the other thing ive noticed about the chargers is that they love to bring all four down linemen full tilt-when they play the pass they play it all out.
With KC line this could REALLY hurt them.


a patient running game could earn some major yards.