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View Full Version : Chiefs vs. Chargers - Talent Comparison


Rain Man
10-26-2005, 11:01 PM
Here we go.

HB - Holmes vs. LaDainian Tomlinson - Two of the top RBs in the game. While LT2 is adored by the press, Priest is just as productive. 5/5
FB - Richardson vs. Lorenzo Neal - A pair of all-pro fullbacks. 5/5
QB - Green vs. Drew Brees - Green is a pro bowler, and Brees has one year of playing like one. He has a 91.4 rating this year compared to Trent's 81.6, but I'm not sure I'd make that trade. Call it even, but I like Green better. 5/5
WR - Kennison vs. Keenan McCardell - McCardell is celebrating his 50th year in the league this year, and is still about equally productive to Kennison. 5/5
WR - Boerigter (?) vs. Eric Parker. Parker is a reasonable #2 receiver with 20 catches this year. Boerigter probably has more potential. Call it even. 5/5
TE - Gonzalez vs. Antonio Gates. Gates is the next player to be anointed "the next Tony Gonzalez." Yeah, yeah, yeah. They said that about Shockey, Heap, Becht, Franks, and a million others. Gonzalez is still the real thing, and Gates has an owie. 6/4
LT - Roaf vs. Roman Oben. Oben is a not-large ten-year veteran who is a journeyman. Kind of a Jeff Criswell type. 8/2
LG - Waters vs. Kris Dielman. Third-year guy who was an undrafted free agent. Took over starting job last year. Nothin spectacular. Waters is a pro bowler. 8/2
C - Wiegman vs. Nick Hardwick. Third-round pick made the all-rookie team last year, seems solid. On injury list with an ankle problem. Probably even with our wily veteran. 5/5
RG - Shields vs. Mike Goff. Solid, eight-year veteran at RG. One of the top-tier non-all-pro linemen. On injury list with an ankle problem. Shields is a multiple pro bowler having an off-year so far. 7/3
RT - Black (?) vs. Shane Olivea. Presumably, Sampson won't be back this week, so we'll have Black lined up. Olivea is on injury list with back problem. All-rookie team last year. 4/6
K - Tynes vs. Nate Kaeding. The best kicker in the world and our own Lawrence have identical stats. 5/5
P - Colquitt vs. Mike Scifres. Scrifres is having a very good year in yardage and placement. We love Colquitt, but Scrifres wins right now. 3/7
KR/PR - Hall vs. Darren Sproles. It's like a midget fight or something. Sproles is quick and has good stats. Hall gets an advantage right now since he's an all-pro. 6/4
FS - Wesley vs. Bhawoe Jue. You may remember Jue chasing Eddie Kennison in the Green Bay game. He's only caused 8 turnovers in 4+ years, compared to 29+ for Wesley in 5+ years. However, Jue has 3 ints this year. 7/3
SS - Knight vs. Terence Kiel. Knight has forced 45 turnovers in 8+ years, compared to 5 in 2+ years for Kiel. 7/3
LCB - Surtain vs. Quentin Jammer. Surtain is a multiple pro bowler with 34 turnovers in 7+ years. Jammer is a former high pick who has only 5 turnovers in 3+ years. I'll take Surtain. 7/3
RCB - Warfield (?) vs. Drayton Florence. I'm assuming that Warfield is back at this spot. He has 24 turnovers in 7+ years, and has fresh legs and a fresh liver. Florence has bounced back and forth between nickel and starter, and is playing on a hurt ankle. He's forced 4 turnovers in 2+ years in the league. 6/4
LLB - Johnson vs. Ben Leber. Leber is a relatively productive tackler who usually produces a couple of sacks per year as well. Johnson has produced twice as many tackles. 7/3
RLB - Bell vs. Steve Foley. Foley is an impressive hitter, listed at 265 pounds. He produced 10 sacks last year. Listed with an abdominal injury. Impressive veteran. 3/7
MLB - Mitchell vs. LILB Donnie Edwards. Okay, let's not go here. Edwards has, like, a million tackles this year, even if we all know that he just rode them downfield until Foley knocked them down. Donnie is listed with a knee injury. 4/6
LDE - Hicks vs. Luis Castillo. Hicks is actually outproducing the Roid freak. Based on the juice, Roider is over 300 pounds and strong. Hard to compare right now. 5/5
RDE - Allen vs. Jacques Cesaire. Cesaire averages about 1.5 tackles per game. Allen is producing like crazy. Like Germany and everyone else, Allen defeats the French. 8/2
LDT - Browning vs. RILB Randall Godfrey. Not apples to apple since San Diego runs a 3-4. Both are injured (Browning - knee, Godfrey - neck). Godfrey is a productive tackler, Browning is a productive backup who starts due to injury. 3/7
RDT - Dalton vs. NT Jamal Williams. Williams is a horse, of course, and no one can talk to a horse, unless, of course, it's the famous Mr. Jamal. Both guys are wide bodies who punish blockers, but Williams is better at it and also more productive, even though we like Dalton. 2/8

Totals:

Offense: Chiefs 63, Chargers 47
Special Teams: Chargers 16, Chiefs 14
Defense: Chiefs 59, Charger 51

Feel free to comment and/or disagree and/or send me money.

Count Alex's Wins
10-26-2005, 11:07 PM
It's basically even, except we win on the O-Line and in the secondary, and they win on the D-Line.

Rain Man
10-26-2005, 11:10 PM
Aside from the o-line, I was surprised at how even our offensive skill positions are.

Frankie
10-26-2005, 11:20 PM
Home field advantage? 4/6?

SpitLightning
10-26-2005, 11:31 PM
QB - Green vs. Drew Brees - Green is a pro bowler, and Brees has one year of playing like one. He has a 91.4 rating this year compared to Trent's 81.6, but I'm not sure I'd make that trade. Call it even, but I like Green better. 5/5


Brees Is a ProBowler as well.

L.T. is better than holmes, but holmes/johnson makes it even I guess.

LLB - Johnson vs. Ben Leber. Leber is a relatively productive tackler who usually produces a couple of sacks per year as well. Johnson has produced twice as many tackles. 7/3

Merriman Has been sharing time while leber started But Now Merriman is Starting so this might be more even.

RDE - Allen vs. Jacques Cesaire. Cesaire averages about 1.5 tackles per game. Allen is producing like crazy. Like Germany and everyone else, Allen defeats the French. 8/2

he isnt our real starter, Igor Olshansky and he was hurt, you will see him not jac.

Home field advantage? 4/6?
Stop Dreaming now before someone pinches you.

not as homerish as i expected but if thats the best you can come up with you dont know squat about the chargers.

Chiefnj
10-26-2005, 11:32 PM
As a unit I'd have to put the Chargers D ahead of KC. I really enjoyed watching parts of the Eagles/SD game last week. The two teams were beating the crap out of each other on D. Lots of hard hitting. I haven't seen that level of physical contact out of KC yet on a regular basis.

XXXshogunXXX
10-26-2005, 11:50 PM
blah...the chargers are 2nd in the league in scoring..so I'll take the chargers, minus the o-line over your squad. Tomlinson is Tomlinson..MCcardell is 2nd among WR's in TDs. and even though he missed a game, Gates is leading the TE's in receiving, while Gonzo is not. I can give the nod to Gates over him.

And defensively...I wouldnt call your talent numbering system of 59-51 accurate. Our rushing defense is 2nd in the league...while our passing defense, statistically, is ranked higher than the chiefs, giving up less TDs, and producing more INTs. Our front 7 is pretty fckin stout as well...Jamal is a monster, Castillo is a potent pass rusher for a 3-4 DE. quick for a fat guy..and can hold the line . Igor starts in front of Cesaire....and he's been tenacious against the run since his rookie year. Luckily the chiefs passed on Igorrrr...That's 3 300+ pounders mounting a fat wall.

Our LB corps is a strong collective unit. Merriman had his first start last week and earned 5 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 FF. He was in mcnabbs face all day, fckin sht up. He's a playmaker...not just a stat padding tackler. He'll be greattt... I dont have to explain godfrey and edwards. Foley's been kinda dinged, but no worries. He's still doing his sht..They rotate Shaun phillips on passing downs, lining him up as DE in a base 4-3. the pass rush has improved since last year.

then again..you guys have 1 win over us..scheduling I guess.. We'll see this Sunday.

Logical
10-26-2005, 11:55 PM
IMO

LT is now much better than either of our halfbacks
O'Neil is slightly better and TRich is nearing the end of his career.
TGreen Brees equal
McCardell much better than Kennison
All other WR slight advantage to the Chargers
O-line advantage Chiefs
D-line huge advantage Chargers
Linebackers slight advantage Chargers but that will dissappear in a year
CB overall about equal
Safeties slight advantage Chiefs

Kickers advantage San Diego but slight
Kick returners advantage Chiefs but slight
Coverage teams big advantage for San Diego

Depth advantage Chargers
Coaches advantage Chargers
Head Coach disadvantage for both teams

Results in solid Charger victory at home.

XXXshogunXXX
10-26-2005, 11:57 PM
you dont have to be THAT humble..

beer bacon
10-27-2005, 12:01 AM
IMO

LT is now much better than either of our halfbacks
O'Neil is slightly better and TRich is nearing the end of his career.
TGreen Brees equal
McCardell much better than Kennison
All other WR slight advantage to the Chargers
O-line advantage Chiefs
D-line huge advantage Chargers
Linebackers slight advantage Chargers but that will dissappear in a year
CB overall about equal
Safeties slight advantage Chiefs

Kickers advantage San Diego but slight
Kick returners advantage Chiefs but slight
Coverage teams big advantage for San Diego

Depth advantage Chargers
Coaches advantage Chargers
Head Coach disadvantage for both teams

Results in solid Charger victory at home.

I don't see how you can say the Chargers have better CBs. The Chargers CBs are walking PIs and don't get many INTs. Surtain and Warfield are much better. Warfield was better then any of their CBs last year, and he is not nearly as good as Surtain.

Logical
10-27-2005, 12:07 AM
I don't see how you can say the Chargers have better CBs. The Chargers CBs are walking PIs and don't get many INTs. Surtain and Warfield are much better. Warfield was better then any of their CBs last year, and he is not nearly as good as Surtain.Huh? I said CB's about equal, Warfield is clearly rusty, given time I think he will shake the rust and out CBs will then be better.

beer bacon
10-27-2005, 12:08 AM
Huh? I said CB's about equal, Warfield is clearly rusty, given time I think he will shake the rust and out CBs will then be better.

I am a dumbass. For some reason I thought you posted that the Chargers' CBs were slightly better.

Dave Lane
10-27-2005, 12:21 AM
QB - Green vs. Drew Brees - Green is a pro bowler, and Brees has one year of playing like one. He has a 91.4 rating this year compared to Trent's 81.6, but I'm not sure I'd make that trade. Call it even, but I like Green better. 5/5


Brees Is a ProBowler as well.

L.T. is better than holmes, but holmes/johnson makes it even I guess.

LLB - Johnson vs. Ben Leber. Leber is a relatively productive tackler who usually produces a couple of sacks per year as well. Johnson has produced twice as many tackles. 7/3

Merriman Has been sharing time while leber started But Now Merriman is Starting so this might be more even.

RDE - Allen vs. Jacques Cesaire. Cesaire averages about 1.5 tackles per game. Allen is producing like crazy. Like Germany and everyone else, Allen defeats the French. 8/2

he isnt our real starter, Igor Olshansky and he was hurt, you will see him not jac.

Home field advantage? 4/6?
Stop Dreaming now before someone pinches you.

not as homerish as i expected but if thats the best you can come up with you dont know squat about the chargers.


Would Chiefs 7 / 3 Chargers be more like it? I mean with the tanning and wine to drink who has time to cheer LOL

Dave

T-post Tom
10-27-2005, 12:23 AM
The tea leaves say that Gonzo is going to have a bust out game. Gates may be younger and a tad more spry, but Tony has better hands and plays smarter. If the O-Line plays well, look for Tony to get a lot of looks this Sunday. And don't be surprised if you see a preponderance of seam routes for Tony this week. That should result in a high YPC average and at least one touchdown. You heard it here first... :)

XXXshogunXXX
10-27-2005, 12:39 AM
\ Gates may be younger and a tad more spry, but Tony has better hands and plays smarter. I\

I think Gates has better hands. He fully extends his arms and catches with his hands.. not with his body. Ive seen him pull out amazing catches this year, bailing out Brees. He also has a bigger receiving radius than Gonzo. I know you mustve heard how he played basketball..and how he benefits by using his body to shield the defender to make a grab....blah blah..I think Gonzo also drops more balls..... and how does Tony play smarter? whatever man..just a quick blanket statement that cant be proven...I'm not sure how you reveiwed both TE's and some how determined 1 plays smarter than the other.

beer bacon
10-27-2005, 12:44 AM
Frankly I don't know how the Chiefs defense which is giving up a massive 22.0 ppg is going to compete with the Charger's shutdown defense that is holding teams to a lowly 20.9 ppg.

T-post Tom
10-27-2005, 12:48 AM
I think Gates has better hands. He fully extends his arms and catches with his hands.. not with his body. Ive seen him pull out amazing catches this year, bailing out Brees. He also has a bigger receiving radius than Gonzo. I know you mustve heard how he played basketball..and how he benefits by using his body to shield the defender to make a grab....blah blah..I think Gonzo also drops more balls..... and how does Tony play smarter? whatever man..just a quick blanket statement...I'm not sure how you reveiwed both TE's and some how determined 1 plays smarter than the other.


I don't care what you think. Gonzo has stood the test of time and proven himself year after year. He reads defenses better than Gates and does a better job of finding the soft spot in zone coverages. He's also a better blocker. Gates is a good player, but he's still looking up to Gonzo. That may change in a few seasons, but for now Gonzo remains the better TE.

HolmeZz
10-27-2005, 12:51 AM
I saw a ball go right through Gates' hand in the Pittsburgh game and result in an INT. He doesn't have better hands than Tony. Gates, however, is more agile and athletic at this time and is better at getting open than Tony, but Tony still has better hands and is more likely to come down with the ball in a crowd than Gates is. Gates is more of a playmaker though.

XXXshogunXXX
10-27-2005, 12:57 AM
is that so...then why does Gates lead the TE's in receiving. He's excellent at finding the "soft spots" in the D. And while watching both..Id say Gates runs smoother routes, while getting good seperation from whatever LB or DB tries to cover him. He isnt a slouch blocker either. I remember seeing Jaworkski breaking down Gates blocking on nfllive....they showed a clip of Gates manhandling Strahan, shoving him to the ground. His blocking is solid..and I wouldnt call him a weaker blocker than tony.

HolmeZz
10-27-2005, 12:58 AM
He's not as good of a blocker as Tony yet.

Rain Man
10-27-2005, 12:58 AM
I think Gates has better hands. He fully extends his arms and catches with his hands.. not with his body. Ive seen him pull out amazing catches this year, bailing out Brees. He also has a bigger receiving radius than Gonzo. I know you mustve heard how he played basketball..and how he benefits by using his body to shield the defender to make a grab....blah blah..I think Gonzo also drops more balls.....

I think Tony has played a little BB, too. Like maybe the NCAA tournament. And I must say, I don't recall Tony dropping a lot of passes. He's got pretty sure hands.

XXXshogunXXX
10-27-2005, 01:01 AM
I saw a ball go right through Gates' hand in the Pittsburgh game and result in an INT. He doesn't have better hands than Tony. Gates, however, is more agile and athletic at this time and is better at getting open than Tony, but Tony still has better hands and is more likely to come down with the ball in a crowd than Gates is. Gates is more of a playmaker though.

that shit happens..Ive seen Tony just drop balls...and there were threads about it last year on this forum. Gates relies more on his 2 hands to catch...Tony will hug the ball with his arms in the air..

HolmeZz
10-27-2005, 01:02 AM
You can't bring up Tony's basketball past though because it completely defeats Shogun's argument about Gates being so great because he played hoops. And that just wouldn't be right.

T-post Tom
10-27-2005, 01:09 AM
is that so...then why does Gates lead the TE's in receiving. He's excellent at finding the "soft spots" in the D. And while watching both..Id say Gates runs smoother routes, while getting good seperation from whatever LB or DB tries to cover him. He isnt a slouch blocker either. I remember seeing Jaworkski breaking down Gates blocking on nfllive....they showed a clip of Gates manhandling Strahan, shoving him to the ground. His blocking is solid..and I wouldnt call him a weaker blocker than tony.

Tony had more yards than Gates last year. He had fewer touchdowns, but that is more a product of the Chiefs' preference to use the run in the red zone. (Who wouldn't with Priest in the backfield?) His numbers are down this year. The spate of injuries on the o-line has had a lot to do with that. He's been called upon to be a more of a blocker. So far he has ran mostly short "hot routes" as a check down receiver. He's also nursing a foot injury that will probably nag him for the rest of the year.

Gates/Strahan? One block doesn't make a season. I didn't say he was a "slouch." Just that he's not better than Gonzo. Gates is big and strong, but tends to stay high in his blocks and give away leverage to his opponents. Gonzo is a little more polished in his technique.

XXXshogunXXX
10-27-2005, 01:25 AM
He doesnt stay high with his blocks. Ive watched him all year. He usually leads with his helmet into their midsection, having defenders on their heels try to push him away. Looks kinda funny. and nah..I didnt try to make it 1 block = 1 season. just using 1 example.

Reaper16
10-27-2005, 09:42 PM
This is the dumbest argument ever. There is nothing supporting the claim that Gates is better than Tony G. Nothing. You're spewing the same tired b.s. that was said about Todd Heap and Jeremy Shockey. Had Kellen Winslow Jr not been a dumbass, then it'd be said about him, too. In a few weeks, we'll be hearing it about Heath Miller. Point is, one season does not the best TE make. Hell, not even two. I can't beleive you actually are going to discredit Gonzo because of your homerism. Wake up, guy.

listopencil
10-27-2005, 10:05 PM
Do not underestimate The Cannibal Factor. KC has The Cannibal Factor edge on DL vs. RB's.

Halfcan
10-27-2005, 10:07 PM
I will go with KC of course.

jspchief
10-27-2005, 10:10 PM
that shit happens..Ive seen Tony just drop balls...and there were threads about it last year on this forum. Gates relies more on his 2 hands to catch...Tony will hug the ball with his arms in the air..That might be the most incorrect statement I've ever read on this BB. And that's saying a lot.

Gonzo catches with his hands almost exclusively.

morphius
10-27-2005, 10:16 PM
I would give mcCardell an up on Kennison. I would also prob give Parker a little up on Boe as well, when Boe can hold onto more then half of the passes that hit him in the hands then maybe...

I think a healthy Priest is every bit as good as a LT, there is a reason that our WR's and TE's don't get many red zone touches.

Both TE's I would consider equal, both basketball players who have pulled off some amazing catches, using their bodies to block off defenders. I mean so far Gonzo's stats have been down, but heck he has 3 PI's in one game, has had to stay in and block to help Black and Bober and then one game he had a number 1 CB cover him an entire game.

Chiefs OL are the best when healthy, but their D front 7 is better.

I'd say that Marty is a much better motivator of his players then DV, and I think he wants to beat the Chiefs nearly as much as he wants to beat the snot out of the Raiders.