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KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:29 PM
What was that about 4th qtr comebacks?

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Puttin' on my game face!

Clint in Wichita
09-24-2000, 05:32 PM
Yeah, the defense was great!

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:33 PM
Clint - The defense did not score the game winning TD, Elvis did.

Gee, you are reminding me of other members who cannot admit when they are wrong.

I wouldn't be suprised to see squiggle or two from you next.

Fact - Grbac scored the game winning TD in the 4th qtr, in one of the most hostile forums in the NFL.

Fact - You were wrong!

milkman
09-24-2000, 05:34 PM
Com'on Clint, Grbac made plays when the game was in the balance.
Of course, I'm not surprised by your response.

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Red Eyes
Chinn Up.

[b]The SitCom must die!!</B>

Clint in Wichita
09-24-2000, 05:35 PM
If it weren't for EG's 2 INTs, the game wouldn't have been close.

I'll give EG some credit if your guys will give Raye equal credit...it can't be easy to call a decent game with a rushing attck that pathetic.

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:37 PM
Clint - Fact - YOU WERE WRONG!

Paint it any way you want, but you were wrong.

Type these words, "I admit I was wrong" It is really simple..... I guess crow sticks in the throat of some people more than others/

Clint in Wichita
09-24-2000, 05:37 PM
If I was wrong, so were all the Raye bashers.

Raiderhader
09-24-2000, 05:38 PM
Fact- Derrick Alexander had the game wining TD. Glad he was able to hold on to it this time!

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:39 PM
Clint - BTW, it is still an 81.6 QB rating even with the INTS!!!!!

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Puttin' on my game face!

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:40 PM
Clint - Not "IF I was wrong", type "I WAS WRONG"

squiggle squiggle

Clint in Wichita
09-24-2000, 05:41 PM
81.6 is almost perfectly average.

Certainly not "player of the week" material!

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:46 PM
Clint - LOL! Truly, I am laughing out loud.

Of course, it is average. But it is certainly not crap as you attempted to paint in your earlier comment about his INT's.

Yes, it is average - but it is A 4TH QTR COMEBACK BY THE QB THAT CANNOT MAKE A 4TH QTR COMEBACK.

You were wrong.

keep squiggling Deni.., err I mean Clint.

DaWolf
09-24-2000, 05:50 PM
"it can't be easy to call a decent game with a rushing attck that pathetic."

And it can't be easy to be a QB throwing the ball with a team that knows your runshing attack is pathetic! <BR>

AZChief
09-24-2000, 05:51 PM
Clint, you've got to admit he's bouncing back from his mistakes like he's never done before. Hell, he can throw hundreds of picks as long as in the fourth with 2:00 left he leads us to victory! I think all the negativity he's faced has made him a better player. I hope he can cut down on the picks but all and all...He won the game!!!

AZ

Clint in Wichita
09-24-2000, 05:53 PM
EG had a hand in winning the game...so did the defense. Why no "RAH RAH, WAY TO GO DEFENSE!" replies?

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 05:55 PM
Clint - Because no one was foolish enough to say the defense would never help in a 4th qtr win....

While you WERE foolish enough to state that Grbac would not ever have another 4th qtr win.

You were wrong.

Raiderhader
09-24-2000, 05:57 PM
Does any credit go to the receivers? Gonzo had a great day. I am so happy he got his TD http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/biggrin.gif! Alxander had some big catches, and my man Lockett had a couple of big cathes ( one of wich he caught while falling down ). I know you Grbacers are trying to give your guy some credibility, but just remember that some one had to catch the passes.

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

Logical
09-24-2000, 06:06 PM
Clint,

First at least you showed up here, where is Cannibal?

I will give you credit for showing up. I will even give JRaye some credit, not a great game called but he did not go completely conservative or hog wild throwing when behind. Balanced in the face of not being able to run is to his credit. Now will you give Elvis his credit for an 80 yard comeback drive and a win?

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Jim Reynolds
Please no squiggles in my discussion zone!

DaWolf
09-24-2000, 06:07 PM
True. Props to them for not dropping 9 balls like week 1.

Besides, I give Tony G huge props in my other post below. Also, I give Lockett the heads up play of the day catching that 3rd down pass after he stumbled, and props to Alexander for going up and getting the winning TD pass. The Cat, well he needs more time in the system it seems. But he's going to be a good one...

KCWolfman
09-24-2000, 06:07 PM
RaiderHader - No one has taken credit away from anyone for this game. But facts is facts as Mr. Berra used to say. Grbac did what he was supposed to do and won a game in a very hostile atmosphere, and he deserves the credit - regardless of what backpedalling Clint has to do.

kcred
09-24-2000, 06:11 PM
I don't care who we give the credit to, it seems there are a lot that deserve it, lets just savor the victory. That has to be one of the first come from behind, 4th qtr, victories in quite some time. Good job, to all, both offense and defense. And the coaches to for that matter.

DaWolf
09-24-2000, 06:13 PM
Exactly Red. Give this victory to the TEAM. Hopefully it is the type of thing that brings the team together and propells us like the 1997 MNF win...

Logical
09-24-2000, 06:14 PM
DaWolf,

I think the Cat was a victim of the officials letting the Denver D'backs get away with murder, especially Crockett.

Tom_Barndts_Twin
09-24-2000, 06:14 PM
Jeez!

I find it amazing that some people can't just enjoy the victory and instead have to criticize?

Yes, Grbac played a poor game today(for the most part), BUT he stepped up and made the plays when he had to!

A come from behind 4th quarter victory by Elvis AT Mile High is no small feat!

Time to give credit where credit is due.

Raiderhader
09-24-2000, 06:25 PM
Wolfman, if Grbac had done what he was supposed to do then the game would not have been so close. Grbac is an average QB AT BEST. Look, I have a policy of not saying anything negative after the win until the day after, but you Grbacers are trying to make EG look like a saviour wich he is not! I know you guys are just trying to defend your guy, but lets not get to carried away. Kudos to the defense, they kept giving us a chance until something was done with the opportunity! http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/smile.gif

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WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH, THE TOUGH GET GOING!

Mosbonian
09-24-2000, 06:26 PM
TBT:

Exactly....

I can remember John Elway, Dan Marino and Joe Montana playing poorly throughout the game and then suddenly just when you think you can put one in the books they lead their team to victory in the closing minutes.

Now Elvis is no where close to them in talent, but the point is that they found a way to overcome poor play and led their teams to victory. Elvis, the Defense, and the rest of the team sucked it up and did to Denver what they had done to us many times during the Elway years, break the heart of the other team with a last minute comenback victory.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Mosbonian
09-24-2000, 06:29 PM
BTW:

Did everyone else like that move that Dennis put on Anderson to get to Frerotte and strip the ball and cause the fumble. That was great!!!!

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Luzap
09-24-2000, 08:20 PM
I need to point something out, even though there will be those that argue before they go check...

The INT Elvis threw that was returned for a TD was not his fault.

He was scrambling to the right, threw a rope to Alexander on a crossing pattern. After Elvis lets go, Derrick pulls up on his pattern. If he doesn't, it's a perfect pass and worst case for us is pass interferrence against Denver.

You can clearly see this only from the endzone replay angle. I don't know what was going through DA's head, but that, along with the drop on the first play of the game and one other had me calling for his head until he redeemed himself with the winning TD reception.

Luz
incedently, it was also alexander on the other interception...

morphius
09-24-2000, 08:21 PM
Luz - I saw that too, have no idea what happened there.

AustinChief
09-24-2000, 08:25 PM
I saw ALOT of bad route running. It looked like both DA and SlyMo were sloppy.

-AustinChief

Clint in Wichita
09-25-2000, 07:29 AM
I NEVER said that EG would never have another 4th quarter comeback...maybe Cannibal did, but not me.

EG created the deficit in the first place. Even if can somehow deflect the blame from EG for the INT returned for a TD, there was a 2nd INT thrown in the end zone...another 3 or 7 points lost.

Elvis deserves credit for keeping it together after nearly throwing the game away, but the MVP of this game was clearly the defense. AGAIN.

KCTitus
09-25-2000, 07:33 AM
Clint is right, the Defense kept our sorry offense in this game.

That said, it wasnt the defense that threw that 20yd pass down the seam between the CB and Safety for a touchdown with time running out.

Say what you will about the INT's earlier in the game, when we needed EG to come through, he did. After that the DLine came back out and forced Frerotte to mis throw that last pass to close the game.

Duck Dog
09-25-2000, 07:40 AM
Man, what is it about you Grbashers? Do you not have a supportive bone in your body? Or do you just like to b i t c h like a bunch of whinny girls?



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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Clint in Wichita
09-25-2000, 07:49 AM
Look at the title of this thread. I'm not going to sit quietly and be called out by someone who refuses to give any credit to the defense, receivers, coaches, or Denver's impersonation of the Bad News Bears.

If you want the Grbashing to stop, then I would suggest NOT calling out all of his non-supporters every time he wipes his arse without getting sh!t on his hands!!

58Forever
09-25-2000, 08:00 AM
Titus, good comment...the D saved our sorry *** offense...and "it wasn't the D that threw that 20 yard pass..."

What happened yesterday gives me more hope than if the Chiefs won 40 to 0...The D did their job and the O did theirs and we won...Maybe the O didn't score everytime...but when the D came up big...the O made it count...

The D might play even harder now knowing that the O is going to reward their efforts..

This should build the confidence on both sides of the ball.... http://www.ChiefsPlanet.com/ubb/cool.gif

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joe

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein."
-Joe Theisman, NFL football quarterback and sports analyst

Duck Dog
09-25-2000, 08:08 AM
Oh yeah...credit goes to the D also. Even though they got ran over at will all day long. Big props to the Dline. Was it 7 or 8 penalties between them?

You see, none of them had a great day...our ST stunk up the joint. Our D gave them penalty after penalty.

Oh yeah...Elvis threw the game winning TD on a game winning drive in the 4th qtr. And your response is..."it was his fault we were in that situation." ?

I still don't get it.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Duck Dog
09-25-2000, 08:09 AM
It must be miserable being a Grbasher. I mean, you can't even enjoy a 4th qtr come back victory, because you hate Elvis so much. Sucks to be you.

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~Duckaholic~
[i]Shoot 'em in the lips</I>

Mosbonian
09-25-2000, 08:12 AM
Clint:

When we win you clearly want to give all the credit to the whole team(specifically the defense)and blame our deficiencies solely on Elvis.

When we lose you make dern sure that you crucify Elvis as the only reason for the loss.

You either lose as a team or win as a team...

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Clint in Wichita
09-25-2000, 08:51 AM
Kilgore,

When it comes to what I post, you don't have a clue. Nor does anyone else on this thread. If Bliss is going to post a topic as soon as the game's over, calling me out for saying something I've never said, I'm going to react.

EG deserves some credit but so does the defense, Lockett, DA & Gonzo. I refuse to give Grbac all the credit for this victory, and only on VERY few occasions have I blamed him solely for a loss, as I did after the game at Seattle last year.

Mosbonian
09-25-2000, 10:38 AM
Clint:


Isn't it funny how you intimate YOU are the only one with a clue on this BB. What you are really pissed about is that Grbac is actually playing good football, still making mistakes but recovering from them like a good QB should, and he is NOT the ONLY reason that KC is 2-2. Kinda rains on your parade when you can't be right all the time.

I usually enjoy reading your ascerbic comments because they are good for a chuckle and sometimes a pause for thought. But you are a piss poor loser when someone points out you might not be right.

Everyone here has a clue on what you say Clint, because it pretty much is the same every week. You're getting dangerously close to resembling Packfan in repetition.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Phobia
09-25-2000, 10:43 AM
I'm pretty sure this thread should have the little fire icon next to it as well.

I'm trying to keep my distance....

Desert Chief
09-25-2000, 10:45 AM
Whitlock has it about right, it was Grbac's finest hour. A loss at this point would have the bored members going post happy and Clint couldn't type fast enough.

Grbac has Nads and he made the final drive happen after throwing two picks.

In previous years the Chiefs would've been the Chefs. Burnt toast.

We have something to look forward too when we're down and it's the fourth quarter !

bishop_74
09-25-2000, 10:54 AM
Clint, realistically, what would it take for you to like EG? I would like you to post your viewpoints. When I say realistically, I don't mean winning the SB, or no more int. for the rest of the year because you know that every other QB league has int. as well. We want to change you man, seeeeee the light!!!! Come to us!!!!

Clint in Wichita
09-25-2000, 11:34 AM
What would it take for me to back Elvis? ONE playoff win in which he is the difference-maker.

The reason I got so angry after reading this post is because I hadn't typed one negative word about Elvis, and I get on here and see this topic, calling me out about saying Elvis will never have a 4th quarter coneback, which I have never done. It was almost like Russ was happier about Elvis throwing two TD passes than he was about the Chiefs picking up a victory. Not me.

Cannibal
09-25-2000, 01:07 PM
I have not read through this entire post because it's a waste of my time, so I may be repeating what other's have already stated.

The biggest reason we had to come back in the game is because Grbac threw two ints with one of them being one of his patented int's for a td.

He is still not our QBOTF IMO.

The Defense has more to do with this victory than anyone else IMO. They gave the offense chance after chance to score the go ahead td and the O failed time after time. Luckily for Grbac he was able to finally get it done in the end. The D has been the most consistant phase of the Chiefs since game one.

What's that give Grbac in the 4th quarter comeback dept. now? 3 or 4 in his entire 8 year career? Impressive...

Mosbonian
09-25-2000, 02:13 PM
Cannibal:

No one, not even Elvis is forgiving his Int's in ANY game. But quite frankly he is NEVER going to be INT.-proof as no QB, even the best are.

I don't proclaim Elvis anything more a QB have a good year, doing the things that everyone bashed him for not doing last year. If we can't be satisfied that he has improved over last year, and is no longer being held on a leash by Jimmy Raye then nothing will make you happy.

I am just glad we didn't play that stupid MartyBall and try to cram it down their throats. If Elvis throwing a pick or two in a game is a direct result of us opening up the offense and it still results in a win then give me that over that stupid 3 running plays and a punt.

Now as for the QBOTF, the guy I told you about last week from Clemson had 230 yards rushing with TD's and 154 yards passing with 1 TD thru the air in the game against Virginia.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Cannibal
09-25-2000, 02:26 PM
Elvis has improved, no doubt about that.

But he's still int prone, very inaccurate and very immobile.

Right now, all he should be doing is holding down the fort until we find an explosive playmaking QBOTF IMO.

We'll see what Woody Dantzler can do when the year is finished. Right now, he doens't look like he excells enough in the passing game IMO. He certainly doesn't look any better than Vick at this point.

Logical
09-25-2000, 03:01 PM
Cannibal,

Do you think that a Michael Vick would do well in a KC type offense. Personally I do not, I think that he would become another Steve Fuller for us. Maybe we could convince him to become our halfback (just kidding). I was called a racist the last time I made that suggestion. The guy IMO just does not fit our teams profile.

Clint in Wichita
09-25-2000, 03:08 PM
Assuming (God forbid) that KC's coaching staff remains intact next year, what kind of QB was Raye at Michigan St., mobile or pocket passer?

IMO Vick is one of those rare talents that you shape your system around, not vice versa.

Cannibal
09-25-2000, 03:35 PM
If you're referring to the "complexity" of the KC offense, I don't think Vick has anything to worry about there because no offense could be more simple than KC's.

All he'd have to do is look for his targets [like all other QBs] and if there was nothing there, tuck it away and pick up 15 to 20 yards on the ground.

Despite what people think, he can throw the ball. He can zing frozen ropes on out patterns and he can throw play action bombs... he even has touch in the redzone on fade patterns. He can do it all. I very seriously doubt he'd be anymore hampered by the KC offense than Grbac is. But Vick can improvise when things breakdown and that is important in today's game.

Look at what Minnesota is doing w/ Daunte. <BR>

morphius
09-25-2000, 03:40 PM
Clint - I would rather have a QB that can sprint then a sprinter who can QB, I'm not sure if that makes a lot of sense. In other words I want someone who thinks to run last, but isn't afraid to do so, and gets yards. Grbac will do it, but only gets 1-4 yards if absolutly pressed to do so, it is amazing how slow that guy is moving forward. That being said, if he keeps this up I expect to see him around for a while.

Oxford
09-25-2000, 03:43 PM
I wonder about DA. At times he makes great plays, then another time his head is not in the game. As far as Grbac, he is not my ideal QB, but then Sonny Jurgensen, Billy Kilmer, Jack Kemp etc etc were not ideal either. I have waited for the leader to come out (which is what the afore mentioned were) and I can see signs of that.

Mosbonian
09-25-2000, 06:58 PM
Cannibal:

Considering the fact that I live in an area where I get to see a great deal of both Vick and Dantzler, right now I would take Dantzler first.

I have said this once before, but it bears repeating. Vick puts way too much air under the ball which he may get away with in College ball but the Pro's will eat up. Second, Vick has, at times, had the ability to completely disappear at crucial times.

Dantzler on the other hand is mobile, can run when necessary and has a pretty good arm. As Cormac has pointed out he also has a pretty good Coach in Terry Bowden who is honing his skills.

Sorry if I am not going to fall into the category of coveting Michael Vick, but to tell you the truth they were spouting the same stuff about Quincy Carter from Georgia last year and look what has happened to him this year.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Cannibal
09-26-2000, 10:15 AM
Vick certainly didn't disappear in the National Championship game against Florida St. He almost single handedly won the National Title.

Vick is also young. I believe at this point he still only 19 years old. If he chooses to enter the draft he'll only be 20 when he enters the league. He does put alot of air under his throws, but that can be changed through coaching. What you can't teach is natural arm strength and he does have tremendous arm strength. He will only get better barring any unforeseen injury or trouble w/ the law.

As for Danzler, he just doesn't put enough passing numbers for me. Right now he looks like a RB playing QB.

Mosbonian
09-26-2000, 10:22 AM
Cannibal:

If you are a Heisman candidate you should stand out in the National Title game, but where is he in the games that seem meaningless. That is what is my problem with him. You gotta play ALL THE TIME, not just when the spotlight is bright. You are right, he could be good, but there have been many like him that fizzle when they come to the Pro's.

As for Dantzler, the reason he spends so much time running is because:

1)HE CAN

2)The offensive weapons for Clemson are pretty limited, so he has no real go-to guy.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Clint in Wichita
09-26-2000, 10:38 AM
Dantzler probably won't even be drafted until at least round 5, if at all. There are numerous QBs that are more talented and polished than Woody.

Brees, Vick, Tuiasosopo, Carter (GA.), Randle El...I'd even be tempted to take a guy like Applewhite or Wenke (2 years ago) over Woody.

Dantzler is not in Vick's league. No way.

[This message has been edited by Clint in Wichita (edited 09-26-2000).]

Cannibal
09-26-2000, 10:39 AM
Who is Vick's go to guy?

Those run/pass QB's should put up stats like Bishop used to IMO.

300 yards passing and 100 yards rushing. At least then you know the guy can throw the ball.

200 yards rushing and only 100 yards passing is not something I'd like to see out of my QB.

Most draft publications have Vick [if he chooses to come out] going in the top 10 next year. I've haven't heard Danztler mentioned as being drafted as of yet.

Clint in Wichita
09-26-2000, 10:39 AM
BTW, Vick's supporting cast this year is HORRIBLE compared to last year. IMO he is the only reason they are ranked right now.

Mosbonian
09-26-2000, 10:53 AM
Clint:


Pure opinion on your part. This is his first year as the starting QB and has Bowden as a coach. Before the end of his career(he is an underclassmen)he will be a 1st rounder whether he is picked as a RB or QB.

As for Brees, well he seems too inconsistent this year and didn't he have a pretty bad game in the Bowls last year. Carter, well he had a REAL POOR game when he came to South Carolina when UGA lost to the Gamecocks. I have not seen Tuiasosopo so I can't comment on him, but I am not sold on Randle El.

And if you will take Applewhite and Weinke over this guy then what you are saying is that you really want another QB that sits in the pocket and has no mobility.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

[This message has been edited by Mark Kilgore (edited 09-26-2000).]

Mosbonian
09-26-2000, 10:57 AM
Cannibal:

As I said in my post to Clint, the reason you have not heard of Dantzler is because this is his first year as the starting QB and because he is an underclassman. He plans to stay at school and get the experience under his belt to hone his skills.

Look for him in the 2002 draft. Then we can discuss whether he is as good or better than Vick.

mmaddog
*************

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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Clint in Wichita
09-26-2000, 10:59 AM
If we're going to look that far into the future, how about Chris Simms, or even Ell Roberson at KSU?

Mosbonian
09-26-2000, 10:59 AM
Clint:

"BTW, Vick's supporting cast this year is HORRIBLE compared to last year. IMO he is the only reason they are ranked right now."

On that we agree. I say when they play a real team they will lose a couple of games and fall out of the polls.

mmaddog
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"When you're not the lead dog in the pack, the view is always the same"

Luzap
09-26-2000, 11:00 AM
Cannibal,

Why are you saying that Elvis is a very inaccurate passer?

That statement is just plain inaccurate.

Luz
shaking his head..,.

Cannibal
09-26-2000, 11:04 AM
Because he always in every game has bad throws in which he misses his target badly. He missed Morris badly against Denver numerous times. His long ball IS inaccurate. He rarely ever hits a receiver IN STRIDE on a bomb. The ball is usually overthrown or the receiver is forced to slow down and wait for the ball which is underthrown, thus allowing the DB to catch up and make the tackle. If you want to see a QB who is accurate... watch Kurt Warner.

KCTitus
09-26-2000, 11:38 AM
Elvis is no Kurt Warner as Elvis is no Drew Bledsoe as Elvis is no Jake Plummer. What Elvis is, is Elvis. He did what we needed to do to win the DAMN game and yall are still bitching about the overthrown or 'badly' thrown passes.<P>

Clint in Wichita
09-26-2000, 11:41 AM
EG is a much more capable QB than when he arrived in KC, but there is always room for improvement. Since KC won the game Sunday, the ENTIRE team played well enough to win...but I doubt that any of us believe that the running game is A-OK.

KCTitus
09-26-2000, 11:46 AM
The entire team did not play well. The running game was pathetic, as you said and the Special teams were less than stellar.

Our defense and Elvis won that game for us.

It's obvious to me that right now most teams are going to stack the line and force Elvis to beat them in the air. We're 2 for 2 when we dont blindly bang our heads into the wall.

Clint in Wichita
09-26-2000, 11:52 AM
IMO it's time to think pass first, since the WR corps & TE is where the bulk of the offensive talent lies...not to mention the fact that the OL apparently can only pass-protect now.

Use the pass to set up the run. IMO that's why TR was FINALLY able to rip off 2 good runs in the 4th quarter.

Chiefnj
09-26-2000, 12:01 PM
Last year when we had to throw the ball 30+ times we were 1-7. This year we are 2-1, with the one loss being to Indy where we dropped 8 passes. IMO, our entire passing game is improving dramatically - Elvis, the receivers and the play calling.

In the past, Elvis would not have been able to shake off the INT's. He should be given credit for the fact that he can put bad plays behind him. Even though we had no running game, he was near perfect in crunch time. You can't ask a QB to do much more than that.

As for the INT's, the more you throw the more picks there are going to be. It is a fact of life. It is the ability to forget the picks and get back in the game that can separate the very good QB's from the average ones. Elvis is making giant strides in the right direction.