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View Full Version : Random Thoughs on DV and other Coaching Candidates


B_Ambuehl
11-01-2005, 10:08 AM
I say DV will end up coaching somewhere else in a couple of years. I wouldn't be all that suprised if he ends up somewhere else next year with all the available openings. In order for that to happen Peterson will have to say what's really on his mind though.

Out of the available candidates the only coach capable of installing a system that performs above the teams level of talent is Mike Martz. :blink: No, I don't want him here either but he took 2 different nobodies at quarterback and turned them into pro bowlers in a year and I guarantee you wherever he goes he will churn out some offense and develop a pro bowl QB within 3 years. I'd love to have a hard nosed defensive Bill Parcells type at HC with a Mike Martz at offensive coordinator but that won't happen.

All the other candidates are just also rans who will do nothing but install basic run of the mill flavor of the week schemes offensively and defensively. Weis, Carroll, Herm Edwards, Childress, blah blah blah. There's a reason why there's such a large turnover at the head coaching position and expectations are rarely met. Every team and every coach does the same basic things. They all have the same amount of money to spend. They all have scouting departments. There are only so many ways to run an offense or defense. There are only so many high level players. There are no miracles.

In the NFL there are only a few coaches who build a team that consistently outperforms their talent level and those that are able to do so do it because of the strength of their "system" or the strength of their philosophy.

The rat is one with that zone blocking offense. Gruden is probably one. Parcells can do it defensively but his offensive philosophy is outdated. Marty can turn a loser into a winner. DV is and has been one but he doesn't have enough control of his defensive staff here. He was forced to let his own defensive staff go which now looks like a big mistake. People in KC have been spoiled expecting a #1 offense and this year they piss and moan but people forget their offensive team is built on rejects, retreads and projects with only 2 sure things (gonzales and roaf). For that offense to be in the upper echelon of the league 3 years in a row is a tribute to the coaches and the system. Bellichik has yet to prove he can do it without 8 or 9 number ones on a defensive football team.

None of those miracle candidates other then maybe Martz have any sort've a strong system in place that will give fans what they want.

I'm surprised nobody mentions Dick Lebeau as a prospect.....or does he even want to be one?

siberian khatru
11-01-2005, 10:09 AM
We already have Mike Martz on staff.

pikesome
11-01-2005, 10:28 AM
I dont know if it's crazy but what about replacing Carl with Scott Pioli and DV with Gregg Williams? I sure alot of people around here would like to see Carl gone and it's safe to say that the team isn't going to the SB with DV. Keep Al and Gunther where they are (I don't know if Williams and Gunther would like that). A couple of years we might have a good shot at staying in the playoffs for more than 60 mins. Any thoughts?

htismaqe
11-01-2005, 10:34 AM
Pioli is under contract now. He signed a big extension.

B_Ambuehl
11-01-2005, 10:35 AM
Carl will never leave until he gets too old to do his job. He was re-signed for 8 years in the offseason. All Lamar Hunt cares about is money and in that respect Carl is doing his job.

The problem with guys like Williams is they can't coach offense and usually bring in phuqtards to try and do that job. Thus you have a ton of teams with good defense with absolutely piss poor offense.

Woodrow Call
11-01-2005, 10:37 AM
At this point anyone not named Al Saunders, Gunther, or Dick Vermeil would be fine with me.

cdcox
11-01-2005, 10:40 AM
Just say no to Herm Edwards.

Cormac
11-01-2005, 10:42 AM
Sorry B-A, but any post that mentions Mike Martz coming to KC makes me wanna :Lin:

And then you say it was a mistake when DV was forced to let his defensive staff go??? :eek: What evidence is there for that?

I say no to Gregg Williams too. He's a great DC, bad HC.

pikesome
11-01-2005, 10:45 AM
Pioli is under contract now. He signed a big extension.

Don't execs get the ability to step out of their contracts if another team offers them a job higher up the food chain?

I dont know if Carl really is the devil, but if you look back at the history of the team, its seems like hes been in on alot of the bad and only some of the good. With respect to his finacial management, I'm not too sure what to say. I would hope that Lamar would like to win another SB before he dies but who knows what he thinks deep down. I kind of wonder if his son is going to take over before long and what his approach might be. I'm not optimistic about him but you never know.

pikesome
11-01-2005, 10:53 AM
Carl will never leave until he gets too old to do his job. He was re-signed for 8 years in the offseason. All Lamar Hunt cares about is money and in that respect Carl is doing his job.

The problem with guys like Williams is they can't coach offense and usually bring in phuqtards to try and do that job. Thus you have a ton of teams with good defense with absolutely piss poor offense.

I would hope that Al would stay around and have some leway in running the offense. I like what he has done, not always happy with everything but I would like to see Williams come in, rebuild the defense, leave Al's offense mostly alone and just provide some leadership. It seems like DV's style isn't always being bought in to. I've seen a couple of games the last 2 years in which you just know we got out coached. Some of the players phone in their performance sometimes, this is the thing that angers me the most. A good coach needs to squeze maximum performance out of the players he has. DV doesn't always. Just my 2 cents though, they listen to me as much as anyone here.

DaWolf
11-01-2005, 10:58 AM
I'd personally love to see us grab Billick if he's fired by the Ravens. I wanted to hire him back in '99 before he went to the Ravens. Yes he's loud, egotistical, brash, but frankly I think that's what this team needs personalitywise. I think that's part of why the Ravens have been so good on D since he got there, the personality of the team. Granted, his offenses have really sucked since he's been there and he doesn't seem to know crap about finding a quality QB, but he directed a pretty potent offense in Minnesota which is why he got the job in the first place, so if we could give him a good QB, maybe it works.

Just a thought. Otherwise I'd have to wait and see what's available. Carl has always been interested in looking at the college ranks for a coach, so you'll probably hear Stoops or maybe even Carroll mentioned (of course that's just an uneducated guess on my part, Carroll may not ever want to leave that situation)...

Brock
11-01-2005, 11:02 AM
It will probably be somebody who will work cheap.

Mecca
11-01-2005, 11:07 AM
If we hired Gregg Williams as head coach, a friend of mine who's a Bills fan. Would laugh at me every day he was coach. He use to tell me how horrible Williams was everyday for his tenure in Buffalo.

Brock
11-01-2005, 11:11 AM
If we hired Gregg Williams as head coach, a friend of mine who's a Bills fan. Would laugh at me every day he was coach. He use to tell me how horrible Williams was everyday for his tenure in Buffalo.

I laughed when New England hired Belichick. For real.

Dartgod
11-01-2005, 11:13 AM
It will probably be somebody who will work cheap.
A foot-shuffling porter, if you will...

Brock
11-01-2005, 11:14 AM
A foot-shuffling porter, if you will...

yassuh, boss!

cdcox
11-01-2005, 11:14 AM
Sure, I'd take Billick over most of the other names mentioned as possibilities.

Mecca
11-01-2005, 11:16 AM
I laughed when New England hired Belichick. For real.

You said "Hey, they hired that crappy coach from Cleveland".

siberian khatru
11-01-2005, 11:32 AM
I laughed when New England hired Belichick. For real.

Oh, yeah, me too. He was a disaster in Cleveland -- arrogant and wound way too tight.

patteeu
11-01-2005, 11:36 AM
I'm not saying either of these guys are available, but two guys who I think consistently get the most out of their talent are Bill Cowher and Jeff Fisher. The Chiefs could use a coach like either of these guys.

Johnson&Johnson
11-01-2005, 11:38 AM
I really can't see any potential great HC candidates from the current coordinators (offense or defense)

But I like to see us get some better assistants in certain areas, like WR's i really like:

Henry Ellard (Rams) - its amazing what he does with every single Ram receiver

James Hasty (has said he was interested in coaching a while back) - he can come in some capacity of the defensive coaching staff. He's smart and bright with lots of history to this club.

Deron Cherry- is he still in the ownership ranks? I know he had partial ownership of the Jaguars? correct me if I'm wrong.

bringbackmarty
11-01-2005, 11:38 AM
Childress probably, maybe as or charlie J.

B_Ambuehl
11-01-2005, 01:05 PM
I would hope that Al would stay around and have some leway in running the offense. I like what he has done, not always happy with everything but I would like to see Williams come in, rebuild the defense, leave Al's offense mostly alone and just provide some leadership.

bingo! Not so sure about Williams but I feel the best future for this team lies in keeping the offensive "system" intact. This offense is one of the very few consistent "overachieving" offensive or defensive football teams year in and year out and people think they're more talented then they really are. This year they're complaining when they don't produce 450 + yards/game and people want Saunders and DV fired which most likely will happen.

Tearing up this offense is as ludicrous as tearing up the Denver Broncos offensive system and I'm afriad that's exactly what's gonna happen. In Denvers case it's never a thought. Why would you tear up an offense that leads the league in rushing every year with 7th round offensive lineman and makes pro bowlers out of 6th round draft picks? But in KC's case that's most likely what's gonna happen.

Saunders won't be kept around cause people don't respect what he's done and won't respect what he's done until he's gone. Besides that him and CP don't get along.

The end result is gonna be we're gonna get some generic flavor of the month coach who will bring in a staff that gives a decent defense along with some generic everyday sucktard offense totally dependent on the number of first round draft choices like 27 other teams in the NFL currently run.

When all it would really take to fix the team and build for the future is keep the offense as is, an offense that gets first round production out of 7th round talent. Go ahead and fix the defense which is already broken to begin with so you lose nothing by messing with that. The only way to go on defense is up. I think DV was forced into letting G-Rob go and hiring Gun and I don't think he felt comfortable doing it. I think he hinted at that enough last year. I think there's too much separation between offense and defense on this team and that was entirely created by CP.

The only way Saunders stays is if he's named head coach. Since that ain't gonna happen he'll be gone. I still have hope that our offensive line coach might be kept around as offensive coordinator for the new regime but not getting my hopes up.

BigChiefFan
11-01-2005, 01:28 PM
I'm not saying either of these guys are available, but two guys who I think consistently get the most out of their talent are Bill Cowher and Jeff Fisher. The Chiefs could use a coach like either of these guys. That's what I was saying yesterday. Cowher is one of the best coaches out there. Too bad he won't be available, but Fisher on the other hand may be available. He's a QUALITY coach. His players step up and he usually gets the most out of them. Hell, everybody knew how bad their salary cap was this year and all the players they released, but they've still won games. Good call on Fisher. He doesn't botch easy timeouts, ect...He's a players coach and is supportive, but also nows how to be hard-nosed,too. I can see Carl Peterson going after him, expecting to keep Gunther on as D-Coordinator. We'll see though, I'm not counting the Chiefs out just yet.

B_Ambuehl
11-01-2005, 01:33 PM
RE: Fisher...Good call he should've been on my original list. There's no hope for him over here though he has a good thing there in Tennessee on an up and coming young football team. They'll up and beat some people this year and be a contender the next.

I don't agree with Cowher. He's another Marty and his teams lose the same way each and every year as they will again this year in the playoffs just like they almost did last night.

chiefsfan1963
11-01-2005, 01:37 PM
If the Chiefs make the playoffs and win one or more games in the postseason then this discussion will have to wait one more year. DV is not going anywhere. I believe this team is still a playoff team and has yet to play anywhere near it's potential. They are improving each week and has the potential of surprising a lot of people.

Baby Lee
11-01-2005, 01:41 PM
Thus you have a ton of teams with good defense with absolutely piss poor offense.
Add in Trent Green and Larry Johnson and I'd buy that for a dollar. . . buck-fiddy on Sundays.

:thumb:

Area 51
11-01-2005, 01:49 PM
I would hope that Al would stay around and have some leway in running the offense. I like what he has done, not always happy with everything but I would like to see Williams come in, rebuild the defense, leave Al's offense mostly alone and just provide some leadership. It seems like DV's style isn't always being bought in to. I've seen a couple of games the last 2 years in which you just know we got out coached. Some of the players phone in their performance sometimes, this is the thing that angers me the most. A good coach needs to squeze maximum performance out of the players he has. DV doesn't always. Just my 2 cents though, they listen to me as much as anyone here.

Clarke Hunt is currently the Chairman of the Board. Lamar is listed as Founder.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/directory/

pikesome
11-01-2005, 01:57 PM
Clarke Hunt is currently the Chairman of the Board. Lamar is listed as Founder.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/directory/

I think Lamar still has some input (probally alot) and while the Chiefs haven't been as sucessful as I would like, we don't have ownership like the Cards or the like the 'Skins. I'm just hoping that 10-15 years from now we aren't wishing for Lamar's re-animated corpse to return.

Chris Meck
11-01-2005, 01:58 PM
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree a bit.

First of all, Carl's not going anywhere. And all the talk about how he's not interested in winning is a bunch of crap. What he's NOT interested in doing is backloading big contracts, going for broke, and then having to gut the team and endure 1-15 seasons while you get out of salary cap hell. (see the 49'ers, Titans, etc.) You know, it'd be nice to win one, but I don't really want to have to endure shipping all your good players off the island for years afterward. I understand both approaches, and am frustrated by the lack of a trophy too-I just don't want to 'buy' one and then have to watch minor league football for the next decade.

He is a bit of an asshole (I used to have to wait on him all the time when I tended bar down on the plaza) but no more than any other upper level businessman.

Second, Vermeil won't go somewhere else and coach; he'll go to Pennsylvania and retire.

Saunders isn't likely to get the head coaching job; although it's a possibility. If he didn't get offered the job, he'd probably split because he'd get some offers elsewhere. That doesn't mean we have to gut the system, though-we could always promote one of his assistants who know the thing backwards and forwards and perhaps could call a better game (which is really the only problem with Saunders. Sometimes he just gets goofy up there.)

I'm a Gunther fan, and I still think this defense will be a good one and that it's not far away. We need a better push from the DT's. We need to disguise blitzes better. We're a couple of players away from being a really good defense right now, IMO. If Sims had stayed healthy maybe we'd be even closer. Who knows. Gun's not likely to get another head coaching job with the Chiefs either, but might stay on regardless.

Whoever gets the coaching job is going to have a rebuilding job to do; but he will have some tools to work with. There's some good young talent on both sides of the ball with the Larry Johnson's, Derrick Johnson's, Jared Allen's, Brian Waters', etc. There will be some holes, however.

Cowher ain't going anywhere, he's finally got a franchise QB. Herm Edwards would be a possibility, and he'd probably leave the offensive system alone. He's a pretty good coach, I think, he just can't keep his QB healthy.

pikesome
11-01-2005, 02:12 PM
I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree a bit.

First of all, Carl's not going anywhere. And all the talk about how he's not interested in winning is a bunch of crap. What he's NOT interested in doing is backloading big contracts, going for broke, and then having to gut the team and endure 1-15 seasons while you get out of salary cap hell. (see the 49'ers, Titans, etc.) You know, it'd be nice to win one, but I don't really want to have to endure shipping all your good players off the island for years afterward. I understand both approaches, and am frustrated by the lack of a trophy too-I just don't want to 'buy' one and then have to watch minor league football for the next decade.

He is a bit of an asshole (I used to have to wait on him all the time when I tended bar down on the plaza) but no more than any other upper level businessman.

Second, Vermeil won't go somewhere else and coach; he'll go to Pennsylvania and retire.

Saunders isn't likely to get the head coaching job; although it's a possibility. If he didn't get offered the job, he'd probably split because he'd get some offers elsewhere. That doesn't mean we have to gut the system, though-we could always promote one of his assistants who know the thing backwards and forwards and perhaps could call a better game (which is really the only problem with Saunders. Sometimes he just gets goofy up there.)

I'm a Gunther fan, and I still think this defense will be a good one and that it's not far away. We need a better push from the DT's. We need to disguise blitzes better. We're a couple of players away from being a really good defense right now, IMO. If Sims had stayed healthy maybe we'd be even closer. Who knows. Gun's not likely to get another head coaching job with the Chiefs either, but might stay on regardless.

Whoever gets the coaching job is going to have a rebuilding job to do; but he will have some tools to work with. There's some good young talent on both sides of the ball with the Larry Johnson's, Derrick Johnson's, Jared Allen's, Brian Waters', etc. There will be some holes, however.

Cowher ain't going anywhere, he's finally got a franchise QB. Herm Edwards would be a possibility, and he'd probably leave the offensive system alone. He's a pretty good coach, I think, he just can't keep his QB healthy.

I'm not calling for Carl's head, but sometimes a change is good. About everything I've typed is 50% BS and 50% wishful thinking (I'll let you decide which is which). I think AS moving on if he's not the head coach is probably right, but Gunthers here and I wouldn't have called that one. We just need a HC with the abillity to connect with his players better and install some fire. As has been mentioned, we have pieces, they just need to be molded together. I think Gun can do it on defense but the team needs a coach that leads better.

As for the who, I would really like to have Weis, but that aint happening anytime soon. I don't like Edwards too much, look at what happened this year. Williams is just a thought, I don't have a feel on what went wrong for him last time. I just don't want to see the team give up in the 3rd-4th quarter like happened so often last year. Say what you will about Gun, but Ishmael couldn't save the his Capt.

cdcox
11-01-2005, 02:20 PM
Chris Meck - Any new coach that come in is going to want to bring his own staff and philosophy. The only way we would keep the continuity would be for Saunders or Gunther to get the nod.

I'm not convinced that continuity is a viable SB strategy given the existing needs and very near future needs:

DL - need one star and one contributer
Secondary - personnel should be adequate, but the play is substandard. Could use a speedy safety, for sure. Maybe scheme alone can fix things, I don't know.
WR - need a play maker (still). I don't think he is on the roster now.
Guard- could use an existing back up to replace Shields, but would at least need a depth player
OT - Even if Roaf goes one more year, we still need to bring in a replacement.
QB - not too soon to be thinking about Green's replacement.

Realistically, this list is way too long to fill in one year. If you filled all of these needs in two off-seasons, you'd be doing great. By then age, injury and free agency would be creating new needs. I think we have entered the period where your needs appear faster than you can fill them.

I just don't think this team is close enough to justify staying the course.

GoTrav
11-01-2005, 02:22 PM
I'm not calling for Carl's head, but sometimes a change is good. About everything I've typed is 50% BS and 50% wishful thinking (I'll let you decide which is which). I think AS moving on if he's not the head coach is probably right, but Gunthers here and I wouldn't have called that one. We just need a HC with the abillity to connect with his players better and install some fire. As has been mentioned, we have pieces, they just need to be molded together. I think Gun can do it on defense but the team needs a coach that leads better.

As for the who, I would really like to have Weis, but that aint happening anytime soon. I don't like Edwards too much, look at what happened this year. Williams is just a thought, I don't have a feel on what went wrong for him last time. I just don't want to see the team give up in the 3rd-4th quarter like happened so often last year. Say what you will about Gun, but Ishmael couldn't save the his Capt.

listening to Mike & Mike this morning Clayton thought Edwards would not be fired. All I can hope for is no freakin Capers, Tice, Norv Turner...I not really excited about getting a rehash coach that was fired in 05 but I guess I could live with Billick or Fisher.

Brock
11-01-2005, 02:33 PM
Capers was a candidate before Gunther was hired.

pikesome
11-01-2005, 02:38 PM
Capers was a candidate before Gunther was hired.

Am I the only one deeply troubled by this thought?

B_Ambuehl
11-01-2005, 02:46 PM
Well hell I might as well nominate Dick Lebeau as a head coaching candidate.

Dick LeBeau begins the second year of his second tour of duty with the Steelers, for whom he experienced much success during the mid-1990s as both the team’s defensive backs coach and defensive coordinator.

Considered the architect of the Steelers’ famed “zone blitz,” LeBeau was named the Steelers’ defensive coordinator Jan. 16, 2004, after spending the 2003 season with the Buffalo Bills.
His impact on the coaching staff was profound as the Steelers returned to the top of the NFL in total defense and rushing defense.
LeBeau, 67, has been involved in the NFL for 46 years, 15 as a player and the past 32 as a coach. Prior to his return to Pittsburgh, LeBeau served one year as the assistant head coach with the Buffalo Bills and the previous 2˝ years as the head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals.

After six seasons in Pittsburgh from 1992-97, when he coached the secondary (1992-94) and then was defensive coordinator (1995-97), LeBeau returned to Cincinnati, where he resided, as the Bengals’ assistant head coach/defensive coordinator (1997-2000). He was later promoted to head coach Sept. 25, 2000 (after three games) and served in that capacity for two more seasons.






LeBeau began his coaching career as an assistant coach for the Philadelphia Eagles from 1973-75. He also was an assistant coach at Green Bay (1976-79) and Cincinnati (1980-83), before serving his first term as the Bengals’ defensive coordinator from 1984-91.






Prior to entering the coaching ranks, LeBeau produced an outstanding pro career from which he still holds the NFL all-time record of 171 consecutive games for a cornerback and currently is tied for seventh all-time in the NFL with 62 career interceptions. His nine interceptions in 1970 led the NFC and his 62 career interceptions ranked third in the NFL at the time of his retirement. LeBeau also appeared in three Pro Bowls.






LeBeau was born Sept. 9, 1937 in London, Ohio. He and his wife Nancy have one son, Brandon Grant.

DaWolf
11-01-2005, 04:53 PM
Am I the only one deeply troubled by this thought?
Wellif it makes you feel better Bellichik was at the top of Carl's list but he declined to interview for the job (probably because he was planning on staying on the east coast as the Jets job was his if he wanted it once Parcells walked, and he had his eyes on New England too)...

B_Ambuehl
11-03-2005, 11:53 AM
bump.....hahah...all the recent coaching talk. What's the difference between Pete Carroll, Brian Billick, Herm Edwards, Capers et. al?

Nothing at all.