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View Full Version : JW on espn.com: Weis's new contract is racist.


BigRedChief
11-01-2005, 03:20 PM
The link:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=whitlock/051101

Jason Whitlock says that Charlie Weis' contract extension is not only shortsighted, but in the wake of Tyrone Willingham's dismissal at Notre Dame, it's quite possibly racist.

Brock
11-01-2005, 03:22 PM
Just a thought, Jason, but it might have something to do with Weiss accomplishing more in half a season with ND than Willingham did the entire time he was there.

Dunit35
11-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Hmmm, maybe it is maybe it isnt. But I doubt it is. JW is just stupid. But he does prove a point about Weis record and other stuff.

tk13
11-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Don't forget Willingham started 8-0 his first year in ND.

chiefsfan1963
11-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Witlock is nuts! Willingham did not deserve 5 years, no matter what color his skin. Call me racist if you want, but Weis is a far superior coach.

Chief Henry
11-01-2005, 03:25 PM
Jason,

GO eat some Gates and chase it with some Belfonte's Ice Cream.

Ozarks-Chiefs-Fan
11-01-2005, 03:39 PM
Just a thought, Jason, but it might have something to do with Weiss accomplishing more in half a season with ND than Willingham did the entire time he was there.

what has Wiess accomplished? ND has beaten some mediocre teams.

bkkcoh
11-01-2005, 03:42 PM
Witlock is nuts! Willingham did not deserve 5 years, no matter what color his skin. Call me racist if you want, but Weis is a far superior coach.


In this day and time, it is just as bad to appear to be racist as it is to be racist....... and that is truly a shame. :banghead:

HolmeZz
11-01-2005, 03:45 PM
There were major differences with Willingham. One is that there was never a threat of Ty leaving for the NFL. Therefore ND didn't have to worry about finding a new coach and potentially hurting the recruiting process. Now ND has a big name coach wrapped up for the next 10 years. It gives them stability.

And while ND went 8-0 a few years ago, they've been more impressive this year IMO. And the team Willingham had had more talent.

CoMoChief
11-01-2005, 03:48 PM
OMG did JW just whip out the ol' race card again?!?!? I'm......well.......shocked!!!

tk13
11-01-2005, 03:56 PM
There were major differences with Willingham. One is that there was never a threat of Ty leaving for the NFL. Therefore ND didn't have to worry about finding a new coach and potentially hurting the recruiting process. Now ND has a big name coach wrapped up for the next 10 years. It gives them stability.

And while ND went 8-0 a few years ago, they've been more impressive this year IMO. And the team Willingham had had more talent.
Plus, Weis is seen as a Notre Dame guy, with his history at the school. Willingham was more of an outsider I think. I think that probably has something to do with it.

HemiEd
11-01-2005, 04:03 PM
This topic was hot on ESPN radio yesterday, the Dan Patrick show. I think HolmeZz, cited the main point. A lot of NFL teams were sniffing around the potential buy out of Charlie Weis' contract. The ND people did not want that to happen. They were not sniffing around Willingham, end of story. Both coaches started out well with inherited players.

Baby Lee
11-01-2005, 04:05 PM
Plus, Weis is seen as a Notre Dame guy, with his history at the school. Willingham was more of an outsider I think. I think that probably has something to do with it.
So is that for or against the disparity being racist?
Seems to me that the argument could be raised that giving Weiss Fonzie 'Cool Points' for being a pedigreed Irsh Catholic, and discounting the outsider brother, as opposed to dispassionately comparing their coaching skills, would actually reinforce J-Whit's argument.

tk13
11-01-2005, 04:08 PM
So is that for or against the disparity being racist?
Seems to me that the argument could be raised that giving Weiss Fonzie 'Cool Points' for being a pedigreed Irsh Catholic, and discounting the outsider brother, as opposed to dispassionately comparing their coaching skills, would actually reinforce J-Whit's argument.
I have no idea. That's why I left it open for discussion... :)

HolmeZz
11-01-2005, 04:11 PM
So is that for or against the disparity being racist?
Seems to me that the argument could be raised that giving Weiss Fonzie 'Cool Points' for being a pedigreed Irsh Catholic, and discounting the outsider brother, as opposed to dispassionately comparing their coaching skills, would actually reinforce J-Whit's argument.

a) Willingham's race is irrelevant. He could've been white. Fact was he still didn't have ties to the university.

b) If you want to compare coaching skills there really is no comparison.

jidar
11-01-2005, 04:12 PM
God. Twittlock again.. *sigh*
Can someone at the Star please fire this asshat?

HemiEd
11-01-2005, 04:12 PM
God. Twittlock again.. *sigh*
Can someone at the Star please fire this asshat?


that would be racist.

FringeNC
11-01-2005, 04:13 PM
And newspaper publishers wonder why circulation is steadily approaching zero...

The average poster on this board is more intelligent than Whitlock. Having a newspaper column or an ESPN gig does make on smart or insightful, and smart readers get their analysis elsewhere.

By the way....

ND was winning close games with smole-and-mirrors, not blowing teams out. Big the major point is about recruiting. ND has jumped to the top under Weiss, and ND and Weiss wanted to nip the going-to-the-NFL rumors in the bud.

Baby Lee
11-01-2005, 04:15 PM
a) Willingham's race is irrelevant. He could've been white. Fact was he still didn't have ties to the university.
Could be a chicken/egg argument though. Kind of like saying Biff Kensington III deserved his cushy job at Ye Olde Moneymakers, LLC, because he summered with the Huntzbergers and Willmores.
Anyone have a list of black coaches in Willingham/Weiss league that have significant ties to Notre Dame?

BigRedChief
11-01-2005, 04:16 PM
And newspaper publishers wonder why circulation is steadily approaching zero...
The average poster on this board is more intelligent than Whitlock. Having a newspaper column or an ESPN gig does make on smart or insightful, and smart readers get their analysis elsewhere.

A Columinst's job is to help sell newspapers. Not make the product better. But to get people to read.

A TV show doesn't have to be good. It just has to find a way to get people to watch.

HolmeZz
11-01-2005, 04:18 PM
Could be a chicken/egg argument though. Anyone have a list of black coaches in Willingham/Weiss league that have significant ties to Notre Dame.

Willingham ISN'T in Weis' league. That was the second part of my post.

And outside of Gruden and Urban Meyer, I don't know any other coaching prospect with ties to ND.

FringeNC
11-01-2005, 04:20 PM
A Columinst's job is to help sell newspapers. Not make the product better. But to get people to read.

A TV show doesn't have to be good. It just has to find a way to get people to watch.

The point is newspapers aren't selling. Readership is plummeting for all major newspapers. Seems that there is a daily Drudge headline about the collapse of readership. I contend part of the reason is because of sloppy journalism from the likes of Whitlock.

jidar
11-01-2005, 04:22 PM
The point is newspapers aren't selling. Readership is plummeting for all major newspapers. Seems that there is a daily Drudge headline about the collapse of readership. I contend part of the reason is because of sloppy journalism from the likes of Whitlock.

As nice as that would be I'd say it's doubtful. The reason is probably mostly due to people getting their news from the Internet.

Pitt Gorilla
11-01-2005, 04:26 PM
Willingham ISN'T in Weis' league. That was the second part of my post.
That may be true, but I'm curious about your evidence. Is this a comparison of their respective previous head coaching experiences?

ChiefsGirl
11-01-2005, 04:27 PM
I'm not breaking my boycott of reading Whitlock's articles to discuss this but... I'm sure if TW had had the NFL experience and success that Weiss has, they would have tried to lock him up for longer when he was 8-0.

Danush
11-01-2005, 04:29 PM
Just when you think JW can't get anymore silly. Why must everything be racist if it in anyway challenges a black man?

Uatu
11-01-2005, 04:30 PM
Is it really that hard for him to see that they are trying to protect themselves from their coach being picked off by the NFL?

HolmeZz
11-01-2005, 04:36 PM
That may be true, but I'm curious about your evidence. Is this a comparison of their respective previous head coaching experiences?

Just from seeing both, it's pretty clear to me Weis is a far superior coach. Not a knock on Willingham, I just think Weis is one of the premier football minds in all of the sport.

Biohazard
11-01-2005, 04:48 PM
Just when you think JW can't get anymore silly. Why must everything be racist if it in anyway challenges a black man?
StFU RACIST!!!!OMG WTF BBQ!!! :p

jAZ
11-01-2005, 05:29 PM
Ya know, Witlock makes a pretty decent case that people shouldn't be so enamored with Weis just yet. I didn't realize that Willingham went 8-0 against mostly bowl bound opponents in his first 8 games. That's impressive as hell.

There's no way around the fact that Willingham accomplished more (likely with less) than Weis has done so far.

At the same time, there's also no way Jason can (or should) try to make the case that Weis' popularity is racist.

Weis has a long track record of tremendous success in New England. He earned that reputation. And that reputation has led to a ton of Weis-hype. If he can leverage that hype into a new contract, that's good for him, but not racist.

It's traced to accomplishments other than being white.

That's where Jason is wrong.

He'd have a stronger case to say that ND might be foolish to offer him a mega-deal that this stage... and leave it at that. But Jason, being Jason, that's just not gonna happen I guess.

Braincase
11-01-2005, 05:57 PM
I guess I miised the part about Willinghams role in three Superbowl wins and his deep ties as a Notre Dame alum... :rolleyes:

Logical
11-01-2005, 07:50 PM
I would agree that on the surface there appears to be a potential for racism in issuing the extremely long term contract. IMO as a Notre Dame fan Willingham inherited more talent for his first year than Weiss did. Frankly I am shocked Notre Dame has done so well this first year. I do believe one circumstance caused this change in policy and that it more than racism resulted in this contract. That was losing out on the coach they really wanted in tbe last minute. ND has come to realize they are not the easist place to recruit athletes to, and now to have trouble getting the HC they wanted I believe truly shocked them.

Phobia
11-01-2005, 08:04 PM
I'm a little surprised that a Whitlock column which played the race card garnered this much attention. Doesn't he play the race card once a month or so? Waaaah. I'll bet he would be a lot smarter if he were a white lardass. I'll bet he'd find a lot more interesting things to write about if he were white as well.

Pitt Gorilla
11-01-2005, 08:25 PM
I would agree that on the surface there appears to be a potential for racism in issuing the extremely long term contract. IMO as a Notre Dame fan Willingham inherited more talent for his first year than Weiss did. Frankly I am shocked Notre Dame has done so well this first year. I do believe one circumstance caused this change in policy and that it more than racism resulted in this contract. That was losing out on the coach they really wanted in tbe last minute. ND has come to realize they are not the easist place to recruit athletes to, and now to have trouble getting the HC they wanted I believe truly shocked them.That sounds reasonable. Still, 10 years is a long time.

Garcia Bronco
11-01-2005, 08:40 PM
The truth of it is...Weis has a resume that can't even be quantified with TW's...and I don't even know what TW's is.....But I agree it is short sighted....they don't know how he'll recruit. And contracts aren't set in stone. So when a group calls racist against another group...I pity them...because that's how they see life.

NaptownChief
11-01-2005, 09:25 PM
they don't know how he'll recruit.

Actually they do....He already has seven 4 & 5 Star verbal commits for next year....Willingham's final class had just three 4 stars....And Weis isn't even close to being done with his 2006 class yet.

Weis has shown them what a good coach should do at that university with that tradition.

Big Fat Whitlock can cry race all he wants but the results speak for themselves.

HolmeZz
11-01-2005, 09:34 PM
Clausen might be leaning to ND too.

Deberg_1990
11-01-2005, 10:29 PM
If they were racist would they have even hired Willingham in the first place???? Come on Jason, you can do better than this crap.....

Amnorix
11-01-2005, 10:29 PM
Stupid.

Weis has a far better resume than Willingham ever did. It was pretty obvious NFL teams would be sniffing around big time after the season was over. That wasn't even close to being a threat with Willingham.

As others have also noted, Weis has ND ties. He's also done VERY well in recruiting this year, and is reported to be simply excellent in all phases of being a college HC -- from schmoozing the alumni, to leading team rallies, etc. ad infinitum, Weis has been terrific.

Losing 34-31 in a heartbreaker to a much more talented USC team sealed his bona fides as a head coach, if the three SB rings he sports as OC of the NEP didn't already...

dtebbe
11-01-2005, 11:13 PM
All I can say is thank god Jeff George is a honkey.

DT

HolmeZz
11-01-2005, 11:24 PM
Stupid.

Weis has a far better resume than Willingham ever did. It was pretty obvious NFL teams would be sniffing around big time after the season was over. That wasn't even close to being a threat with Willingham.

As others have also noted, Weis has ND ties. He's also done VERY well in recruiting this year, and is reported to be simply excellent in all phases of being a college HC -- from schmoozing the alumni, to leading team rallies, etc. ad infinitum, Weis has been terrific.

Losing 34-31 in a heartbreaker to a much more talented USC team sealed his bona fides as a head coach, if the three SB rings he sports as OC of the NEP didn't already...

True dat.

Spicy McHaggis
11-02-2005, 12:34 AM
Notre Dame doesn't care about black people.


Someone had to say it.

Amnorix
11-02-2005, 08:00 AM
The truth of it is...Weis has a resume that can't even be quantified with TW's...and I don't even know what TW's is.....But I agree it is short sighted....they don't know how he'll recruit. And contracts aren't set in stone. So when a group calls racist against another group...I pity them...because that's how they see life.

Actually, ND's recruiting has been very strong so far. They have a number of commitments from the top 100 players. It's early yet, of course, but so far it's been excellent.

Mecca
11-02-2005, 08:19 AM
Were those players ranked top 100 before or after they committed? For some reason scouting services have a bad habit of increasing players rankings after they commit to Notre Dame.

Phobia
11-02-2005, 08:22 AM
Were those players ranked top 100 before or after they committed? For some reason scouting services have a bad habit of increasing players rankings after they commit to Notre Dame.

I see. So the scouting services are inflating player rankings for Weis but not for TW. They're racist, too.

Wait until JW gets ahold of this tidbit.

Mecca
11-02-2005, 08:25 AM
I see. So the scouting services are inflating player rankings for Weis but not for TW. They're racist, too.

Wait until JW gets ahold of this tidbit.

No No, that wasn't meant as a shot at Weis. It's been happening for years. It was an honest question. It's alot of the reason Notre Dame had top 5 ranked classes yet had disappointing seasons for awhile. Their classes weren't nearly as good as they were ranked due to the players being inflated once they committed to Note Dame.

My comment had nothing to do with the coach it was more a question of wondering if they are still inflating the player rankings for that school.

jidar
11-02-2005, 08:30 AM
Mike and Mike on espn radio this morning briefly roasted Twitlock for this article.

Golic said something about the article didn't make sense and Greenie said a lot of things in the article didn't make sense.

This is coming from Whitlocks ESPN peers so that has to sting. lol.. okay maybe calling Twitlock a peer to these two is a stretch.

jAZ
11-02-2005, 08:40 AM
Their classes weren't nearly as good as they were ranked due to the players being inflated once they committed to Note Dame.
This is pretty well established. The guys who do the rankings only know so much and they use lots of information in their evaluation process, and one of the key factors is the proxy evaluations performed by other schools.

If big-name schools or big-name coaches are high on a player or sign some unranked or under-ranked player, they jump in the rankings.

It happens with almost every UofA (basketball) recruiting class. Gilbert Arenas was a nobody player who's only other scholarship offer was from K-State. Lute saw him and signed him and he jumped into the top 100 before he was drafted and became an All-Pro.

The scouts see that kind of thing happen all the time and realize they either don't know as much as the coaches they scout for, or don't have the exposure/time with each kid to properly evaluate them like the coaches do.

Mecca
11-02-2005, 08:42 AM
Mike and Mike on espn radio this morning briefly roasted Twitlock for this article.

Golic said something about the article didn't make sense and Greenie said a lot of things in the article didn't make sense.

This is coming from Whitlocks ESPN peers so that has to sting. lol.. okay maybe calling Twitlock a peer to these two is a stretch.

Well Golic attended Notre Dame.

patteeu
11-02-2005, 09:19 AM
So is that for or against the disparity being racist?
Seems to me that the argument could be raised that giving Weiss Fonzie 'Cool Points' for being a pedigreed Irsh Catholic, and discounting the outsider brother, as opposed to dispassionately comparing their coaching skills, would actually reinforce J-Whit's argument.

You mean a pedigreed Irish Catholic like Tim Brown?

HolmeZz
11-02-2005, 10:25 AM
The way recruiting is done now, most lists are made before players commit. If you check you rivals100, they've still got plenty of uncommitted guys left with a list of schools they're considering.

BigMeatballDave
11-02-2005, 11:23 AM
Cry me a river, JW... :rolleyes:

Mecca
11-02-2005, 12:38 PM
You mean a pedigreed Irish Catholic like Tim Brown?

How about Raghib Ismail?

GoTrav
11-02-2005, 12:52 PM
I guess I miised the part about Willinghams role in three Superbowl wins and his deep ties as a Notre Dame alum... :rolleyes:

and GM's already trying to lure him to the NFL with HC'ing gigs...more of an insurance clause if anything. They want to keep the guy locked in, fat and happy. I really didn't see Weis leaving without putting in five years. He has definately resurrected the ND mystique. It's always been discussed that the ND standard was crutch of the HC job...but for some reason, I don't see Weis having problems bringing in players, regardless of the high academic requirements.

ChiefsGirl
11-02-2005, 01:38 PM
Mike and Mike on espn radio this morning briefly roasted Twitlock for this article.

Golic said something about the article didn't make sense and Greenie said a lot of things in the article didn't make sense.

This is coming from Whitlocks ESPN peers so that has to sting. lol.. okay maybe calling Twitlock a peer to these two is a stretch.

Weird. Mike Greenberg wasn't on in Dallas. :hmmm:

Erick Kuselias was.

jspchief
11-02-2005, 01:46 PM
I apologize if this has already been mentioned... If Notre Dame was racist, why did they hire a black coach in the first place?

jidar
11-02-2005, 01:50 PM
I apologize if this has already been mentioned... If Notre Dame was racist, why did they hire a black coach in the first place?


So they could smack him down later, obviously.

Mecca
11-02-2005, 01:54 PM
I just personally think it's funny to give a coach who's coached 7 games a contract like that.

Of course now every coach in college will get a significant pay raise because of it. Especially the guys who've won National Titles.

T-post Tom
11-02-2005, 01:55 PM
Just another attempt at race-baiting to further his career. This guy has pretty much lost all credibility with me.

jspchief
11-02-2005, 01:57 PM
I just personally think it's funny to give a coach who's coached 7 games a contract like that.

Of course now every coach in college will get a significant pay raise because of it. Especially the guys who've won National Titles.It's risky, but chances are, 10 years from now the back end of that contract will be very reasonable.

Of course, that doesn't matter if he sucks. Or demands a new contract after five years.

Scalper
11-02-2005, 02:00 PM
He has a good point by saying that weis is succeeding with willinghams recruits.