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Pants
11-02-2005, 08:19 PM
Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-chiefs-scoring&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Chiefs' Larry Johnson still unhappy with backup role

By DOUG TUCKER, AP Sports Writer
November 2, 2005
KANSAS CITY, Mo. (AP) -- Larry Johnson, still seething in his role as backup to Priest Holmes, said he's decided not to rock the boat and will wait until he might get a chance with some team other than Kansas City.

``I can never swallow the situation right here,'' Johnson said Wednesday after the Chiefs went through a practice without many of its top players. ``You can't ask that of any back who's been used to getting the ball in college like I was getting it.''

The Chiefs (4-3) have had success with a two-pronged running back strategy, generally giving Holmes two series and then Johnson one. Although the scoring on goal-to-go situations is down from last year, they are averaging 131 yards rushing, sixth in the league. Holmes, who missed practice Wednesday to get a second opinion on the blow he took last week to the head, has rushed for 451 yards on 119 carries.
Johnson, a No. 1 draft choice out of Penn State in 2003, has 75 carries for 399 yards. He's averaging 5.3 yards per carry and making no effort to hide his displeasure at not starting.

He could get most of the load this week against Oakland if doctors tell Holmes to take it easy. But neither Johnson nor coach Dick Vermeil expects anything to change once Holmes is back to 100 percent.

``You know Dick Vermeil. I know Dick Vermeil,'' Johnson said. ``I know that ain't going to happen. I'm just going to let the situation ride out. Just go on as planned and get whatever I can get my hands on.''
Vermeil seemed to agree with his disgruntled running back.

``Priest Holmes is our starting running back,'' he said. ``I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Larry Johnson had a great game if he did play (against Oakland) because I've seen him do it before. Priest is the starter.

``We know that situation and they know it. But if Priest isn't ready, then Larry will take it and go. I have great confidence he'll do a heck of a job.''

Holmes, who took a blow to the head last week at San Diego, said he expects to play although he won't be back in time to practice until Friday.

``We're still waiting on the diagnosis of the images from the MRI, but I definitely know that once that's done, we'll have a better of idea of how exactly I can proceed with the rest of the week,'' he said.

``I'm feeling good. It's one of those things where it's not an injury where you can physically see and determine. It's one where you have to go through the different tests and then once that's determined, they're going to do everything to protect me, but make sure I can get out there as quickly as possible.''

Johnson also said he's turned over a new leaf as far as challenging the Chiefs publicly for more playing time.

``I can't force this organization to do anything,'' he said. ``I've tried that before when I was a rookie and I tried that last year. It got me absolutely nowhere. It got me a reputation where I'm the bad seed in the organization. So I'm not even going to try that route. I'm going to play it out and whatever teams open up that want me, a lot of teams out there that don't have good rushers. So whatever opportunities open up for me.''

Vermeil said Johnson's attitude is not a problem.

``I wouldn't want him to be happy with it. I would hope that all our backups are unhappy with not starting,'' he said. ``But he's handled it well.''

Losing Holmes, a goal-line specialist, would hurt an area that's already a concern. The Chiefs have scored touchdowns on only seven of 15 goal-to-go situations in seven games. Last year they were near the top of the league, with 27 touchdowns in 33 opportunities.

``We know now what it's like to be a more normal NFL team,'' Vermeil said. ``We haven't been normal down there (in recent years). We've been extraordinary. You get spoiled.''

Holmes was one of a parade of top players missing work on Wednesday. Also held out were guard Will Shields, offensive tackle Willie Roaf and starting cornerbacks Patrick Surtain and Eric Warfield. Quarterback Trent Green was in St. Louis for services for his father, who died last week.

Surtain, who injured a knee last week against the Chargers, could be the starter most likely to be out this week. Out for sure, Vermeil said, is backup safety Jerome Woods and wide receiver Samie Parker.

Spicy McHaggis
11-02-2005, 08:38 PM
Larry might just want to wait until next year when the new coaching regime comes in. I could see Holmes becoming our Marshall Faulk and LJ becoming our Jackson or even taking more carries than that. Until then he doesn't need to keep us updated in a news story about how he won't be making any more news stories regarding his playing time. Keep it to yourself man.

Brock
11-02-2005, 08:39 PM
Good. He's no Todd Collins.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-02-2005, 08:48 PM
anger seems to be what drives LJ, being happy could be his kryptonite

StcChief
11-02-2005, 09:03 PM
LJ Get over it this is the NFL wait your turn prove yourself worthy.

chief99
11-02-2005, 09:04 PM
Chiefs need to draft another running back with SPEED.

LJ could be a big headcase.

TRR
11-02-2005, 09:09 PM
It's scary to think how big his head could get once he is the premier RB in KC, or on another team. He's done next to nothing in KC, yet he acts like he should be starting over the best RB in Kansas City Chiefs history. All while getting in trouble off the field, and acting like a complete punk in the process.

I'd almost be willing to bet LJ's career ends tragically unless something drastic happens in his attitude towards life in general.

Signed,
A fan of LJ on the field; definitely not a fan off...

Count Zarth
11-02-2005, 09:10 PM
Larry should shut up until he can punch it in from the 2-yard line on a consistent basis.

StcChief
11-02-2005, 09:18 PM
Off the field - This woman tormentor should be looking over his shoulder.

On the field- consistency is the word every where.
Put up or shut up LJ.

Halfcan
11-02-2005, 09:33 PM
Just shows the diff between LJ and Holmes. LJ is just a thug, I hope we can work a trade in the draft and get Matt Lienart or Reggie Bush.

KCChiefsMan
11-02-2005, 09:50 PM
I don't want Reggie Bush that badly, Matt Leinart will probably go in the top 3, we might need to draft another running back soon and trade LJ if we can get something out of him because he wants out of KC

greg63
11-02-2005, 11:41 PM
…This not surprising.

Rausch
11-03-2005, 12:05 AM
Good. He's no Todd Collins.

I see we need another KFD thread...

SoCalBronco
11-03-2005, 12:05 AM
Just shows the diff between LJ and Holmes. LJ is just a thug, I hope we can work a trade in the draft and get Matt Lienart or Reggie Bush.

I hope you get Leinart too.

luv
11-03-2005, 12:45 AM
I can understand his eagerness to play. He's young, and he's good. There may have been situations where he would have been better to have on the field instead of Holmes. They key to winning is teamwork. I think, once he becomes the starter, he will be a showboat. He feels he has all these things to prove. He may have the ability to prove that he may be just as good as, or better than, Holmes. I think he will get overeager and wind up hurting himself. Besides that, good things come to those who WAIT.

Wallcrawler
11-03-2005, 02:03 AM
Im getting sick of LJ's whining. Everyone knows he wants to play. There isnt a backup in the league who wouldnt rather be starting.

He might consider getting consistency on the field, not putting the ball on the ground, and being able to score from 2 yards away from the goal line.

Until then, he can take his pussy hand gesture and his street credit to the bench.

tk13
11-03-2005, 02:21 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/13066249.htm

Johnson in a rush to star
Back eager to prove he can carry NFL team

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star


Larry Johnson hasn’t had one of his patented outbursts of unhappiness this season, but don’t for a minute confuse that with contentment.

Johnson indicated Wednesday that he’s still angling for what he perceives would be a better opportunity somewhere else. Ironically, his words came as it appeared that he would play more in the Chiefs’ game Sunday against Oakland at Arrowhead Stadium.

Priest Holmes, who left for California for a second opinion on the concussion that knocked him out of last week’s game in San Diego, did not practice Wednesday. He is not scheduled to return until after today’s practice is over. That increases the chances of breaking the harness of two series for Holmes and one for Johnson.

Even so, Johnson said he didn’t think a big game Sunday as the sole featured back would force the Chiefs to play him more.

“I doubt it,” he said. “You know Dick Vermeil, and I know Dick Vermeil. That ain’t going to happen.

“I can’t force this organization to do anything. I’ve tried that before. I tried that last year, and it got me the reputation that I’m the bad seed of the organization. So I’m not even going to try that route. I’m going to play it out, and whatever teams that want me — there are teams out there that don’t have good rushers — there might be an opportunity that opens up for me.

“There’s not anything I’m going to expect or anything I’m not going to expect.”

It turned out Johnson had an accurate grasp of what the Chiefs are thinking. Vermeil said that nothing Johnson did against the Raiders would affect the running-back situation.

“Priest Holmes is our starting running back,” Vermeil said. “I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Larry Johnson had a great game if he did play, because I’ve seen it before. But Priest Holmes is our starter, and they know it and we know it.

“If Priest isn’t ready, then Larry will take it and go. Or, if Priest is just ready to be a backup, then Larry will take it and go.”

Holmes was listed by the Chiefs as questionable for Sunday’s game on the official injury report filed with the NFL. That means the Chiefs believe he has a 50 percent chance of playing.

Vermeil had a different opinion.

“I expect him to play,” he said. “I’m not a doctor. I’ve just been there before and seen these kinds of things before.”

Before he departed, Holmes did a conference call with Oakland-area reporters.

“We’re still waiting on the diagnosis of the images from the MRI, but I definitely know that once that’s done, we’ll have a better idea of how exactly I can proceed with the rest of the week,” Holmes said. “I’m feeling good. It’s one of those things where it’s not an injury where you can physically see and determine. It’s one where you have to go through the different tests, and then once that’s determined, they’re going to do everything to protect me but make sure I can get out there as quickly as possible.

“I know the doctors are taking every precaution and looking at all of the images from the MRI. Once that’s done, they’re going to give me the word: ‘Let’s get suited up.’ ”

While Holmes has indicated his acceptance of the running-back rotation, Johnson has not. Always one to hear the clock ticking on his career from the day he joined the Chiefs, Johnson this season is less demanding publicly but no more patient.

“I’ve got to get my yards now,” he said. “I really don’t care if Priest plays or not. It’s the same situation as before. If he plays, he plays. It doesn’t really matter what he does.”

Whether Holmes plays does affect Johnson — not to mention the Chiefs — immensely. Johnson filled in for the injured Holmes in both Raiders games last year, and he was a big factor in the Chiefs victories, totaling 296 rushing and receiving yards and four touchdowns.

He had nine carries for 41 yards and a touchdown in the Chiefs’ 23-17 win in Oakland in September.

The Chiefs are looking at Johnson, who signed a seven-year contract in 2003, as the eventual replacement for Holmes and not as trade bait. Either way, a 1,000-yard season despite limited playing time could brand Johnson as an elite back.

He has 399 yards through seven games, which puts him on a pace for 912. A big game Sunday, even if it’s his only one as the lone featured back, could be the one to eventually propel him over the magical mark.

That’s a prospect that excited even the anxious Johnson.

“That would be a real eye-opener,” Johnson said. “People don’t expect somebody with seven, eight, nine carries at the most to break 1,000 yards. Nobody’s ever heard of that.”

In Oakland, the Raiders are watching the developments with interest, too. Playing without Holmes would certainly alter the Chiefs’ play-calling and make them more of a power-running team.

“We do a lot to try to break it down, and we put the reels (of video) together and see the difference when either of the backs are in there and it’s hard to find a whole lot of difference,” Raiders coach Norv Turner said. “They might be a little more of a power-running team with Johnson.

“Priest is a great player. He’s one of the better players in the league. Just like a couple of weeks ago when we were without Randy (Moss). You lose one of the top players in the league, and it has an impact. My big deal with our team is someone has to pick up the slack, and I’m sure that’s how Kansas City is approaching it.”

Fruit Ninja
11-03-2005, 02:42 AM
LJ Get over it this is the NFL wait your turn prove yourself worthy.
hmm.. i think he has, first round picks dont wait 3 years to start. I dont know any in recent memory that hasnt had a chance to start in 3 years.

Fruit Ninja
11-03-2005, 02:45 AM
One thing about him not starting he is going to start to really dislike the organization. I love priest and all, but we all know he is about done in the NFL. He does some nice things but he isnt consistant at all this year. LJ pretty much has been he had 1 bad game when he fumbled it happens, i just hope he can get the chance to start. I dont wanna end up with No runningback and having Ronnie Cruz as our featured back.

Fruit Ninja
11-03-2005, 02:49 AM
Just shows the diff between LJ and Holmes. LJ is just a thug, I hope we can work a trade in the draft and get Matt Lienart or Reggie Bush.
Ya know most people bitch and moan and groan that our picks are flops, yet we got one that is a potential pro bowler and we are bashing him becuase he wants to start. HE has shown that he is capable of bieng a pro bowler. Its a no win situation. Fans bitch no matter what.

DaWolf
11-03-2005, 03:08 AM
I'm going to play it out and whatever teams open up that want me, a lot of teams out there that don't have good rushers.

Hey Larry, a lot of theams out there also have running backs who can punch it in from 2 yards away. You ought to try doing that sometime in a crucial game...

Fruit Ninja
11-03-2005, 03:15 AM
Hey Larry, a lot of theams out there also have running backs who can punch it in from 2 yards away. You ought to try doing that sometime in a crucial game...He is going to have NO Problem finding a job. He is sitting in the drivers seat as long as he keeps doing what he is doing in games.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 03:21 AM
It's funny how in this town unless the players play "good little soldier" everyone wants to get rid of them. The guy has every right to be pissed, he's a first round pick and he's still basically sitting.

If they were going to do this with him they should have never picked him. He's probably thinking this exact same thing. Priest Holmes is 32 years old, for all intensive purposes this is his last year here. It's in the Chiefs best interest of the future to make Larry Johnson happy. The last thing we need as a team to make one of the few players we have for the future upset at the organization.

I'll be happy when Vermiel takes his old senile ass the hell out of here. This problem will go away with him.

For all the people talking about Johnson not getting the ball in from 2 yards out. How about you call up Will Shields and ask him to block his man first. It's pretty hard to get in the endzone with no hole because your supposed All Pro Guard can't block for shit anymore.

the Talking Can
11-03-2005, 05:18 AM
of course he's unhappy...he won't have the leverage come contract time for big $$$ because he hasn't been a starter...and he's watched rookie after rookie enter the league and get the rock...

why wouldn't he be unhappy? he wasn't a 7th round pick from Missouri....I be shocked if he didn't leave town on the first bus....

Otter
11-03-2005, 05:38 AM
Just shows the diff between LJ and Holmes. LJ is just a thug, I hope we can work a trade in the draft and get Matt Lienart or Reggie Bush.

If getting Matt Lienhart comes down to trading LJ my answer to that: Larrry who?

Chiefs would never do it though, they have no balls or means of developing a QB.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 05:41 AM
If getting Matt Lienhart comes down to trading LJ my answer to that: Larrry who?

Chiefs would never do it though, they have no balls or means of developing a QB.

No one is trading a top 2 pick for Larry Johnson. That Leinart idea is a pipe dream at best. Larry Johnson is this teams future at the RB position, the best case scenario is Vermiel and Holmes are both gone after this year. Then we won't have this issue anymore.

Otter
11-03-2005, 05:49 AM
No one is trading a top 2 pick for Larry Johnson. That Leinart idea is a pipe dream at best. Larry Johnson is this teams future at the RB position, the best case scenario is Vermiel and Holmes are both gone after this year. Then we won't have this issue anymore.

Any dream of the Chiefs developing a QB with Peterson making the decisions is a pipe dream. I'm quiet aware of that fact.

You're probably right, Larry Johnson is the teams future. However, Priest Holmes is hardly hurting the team with his performance and he's been nothing but a class act from day one. I'm willing to bet if Vermeil asked him to sit while LJ started he would do it and keep his mouth shut.

But you're right, Holmes has never done anything for the team in his time here and has been nothing but a burden from day one. Let's can his sorry, old ass.

Whatever.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 05:52 AM
Any dream of the Chiefs developing a QB with Peterson making the decisions is a pipe dream. I'm quiet aware of that fact.

You're probably right, Larry Johnson is the teams future. However, Priest Holmes is hardly hurting the team with his performance and he's been nothing but a class act from day one. I'm willing to bet if Vermeil asked him to sit while LJ started he would do it and keep his mouth shut.

But you're right, Holmes has never done anything for the team in his time here and has been nothing but a burden from day one. Let's can his sorry, old ass.

Whatever.

You're not taking what I said the right way. Priest Holmes will be 33 years old and expensive next year. The team is going to be going into rebuilding mode. When you have a young player in that position who's ready to start. There's no reason for Priest Holmes to be on this team next year.

Priest is a great guy and does everything that is asked of him. But the smart business decision is to part ways with him after this season.

penchief
11-03-2005, 06:01 AM
I agree that Vermeil is the problem. The best coaches in this league would have already had LJ busting long TD runs every week. The Chiefs organization has mishandled Johnson from the day they drafted him. And he's justified in his resentment. I'm also getting a little tired of Priest's smugness, too. There's something about his classy facade that seems a little bit disingenuous to me (see contract/injury). Yeah, he's a hard worker and a heady back but for the most part LJ has outperformed him. Yet Priest seems to feel that he's entitled to the bulk of the carries. If he really cared about the Chiefs above his own career even he could see that this situation is hurting the franchise, both now and for the future.

It's easy to be gracious when you're not the one getting screwed.

We're not going to ever see what LJ is capable of until he gets more than six or seven carries a game. A back like Johnson needs to get into a rhythm just as much as any back does.

And this notion that LJ is motivated by anger is just rationalization bullshit. He'll be a much better back when he's happy and getting enough playing time to show what he can do.

Chan93lx50
11-03-2005, 06:14 AM
Bitch and Moan, bitch and moan this guy is worse than a woman!

Otter
11-03-2005, 06:15 AM
If he really cared about the Chiefs above his own career even he could see that this situation is hurting the franchise, both now and for the future.

What do you suggest he do, forfeit his salary and backup LJ for the vetern minimun? Like you would do for the company you work for no doubt.

After all, it's about the team right?

Explain his smugness and classy facade while you're at it too.

penchief
11-03-2005, 06:23 AM
What do you suggest he do, forfeit his salary backup LJ for the vetern minimun? Like you would do for the company you work for no doubt.

After all, it's about the team right?

Explain his smugness and classy facade while you're at it too.

I think he knows he's getting preferential treatment. He knows LJ is outperforming him and he knows LJ has a right to be pissed about being held back from the start.

It's easy to be classy when the coaching staff is giving you a free ride. You can bet your sweet ass that Bill Parcells wouldn't be catering to a 32 year old back with declining skills while a power back with home run speed rots on the bench. LJ would be pushing Priest to the bench on teams that believe playing time is based on merit and not loyalty or popularity.

I think Priest has class. I just don't think he's any more of a team guy than anybody else. It was great that he came back from the injury but he pretty much manipulated the situation and got what he wanted. In turn, because we were intentionally left in the dark and were uncertain of our future at RB, we drafted LJ.

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 06:24 AM
LJ would be pushing Priest to the bench on teams that believe playing time is based on merit and not loyalty or popularity.

Ding ding ding!

This is just another example of DV's loyalty getting in the way of what's best for the team.

stevieray
11-03-2005, 06:31 AM
I think he knows he's getting preferential treatment. He knows LJ is outperforming him and he knows LJ has a right to be pissed about being held back from the start.

It's easy to be classy when the coaching staff is giving you a free ride. You can bet your sweet ass that Bill Parcells wouldn't be catering to a 32 year old back with declining skills while a power back with home run speed rots on the bench. LJ would be pushing Priest to the bench on teams that believe playing time is based on merit and not loyalty or popularity.

I think Priest has class. I just don't think he's any more of a team guy than anybody else. It was great that he came back from the injury but he pretty much manipulated the situation and got what he wanted. In turn, because we were intentionally left in the dark and were uncertain of our future at RB, we drafted LJ.


:rolleyes:

Extra Point
11-03-2005, 06:32 AM
You all know why they drafted Johnson in the first place. Don't put #31 on a pedestal. Money talks, ....

Barry Word, Harvey Williams, Greg Hill. 3 RB's that left for obscurity. If Larry Johnson leaves, he will go to a team that will run him into the ground, and his career will be shortened. It's RRBP (Partnership), if he's smart. In 2 or fewer years, he'll get the starting job, and the money that comes with it. He may undervalue Priest Holmes tutelage, and cut his career short by 3 years.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 06:35 AM
:rolleyes:Don't pay too much attention to Penchief. His LJ fetish has clouded his thought process.

He stole the placenta from the hospital on the day LJ was born and built a shrine for it. Now his life revolves around crusading like a babbling idiot after LJ has good games, and completely disappearing from the BB when LJ has bad games.

stevieray
11-03-2005, 06:36 AM
Don't pay too much attention to Penchief. His LJ fetish has clouded his thought process.

He stole the placenta from the hospital on the day LJ was born and built a shrine for it. Now his life revolves around crusading like a babbling idiot after LJ has good games, and completely disappearing from the BB when LJ has bad games.

:clap:

LJ is a victim.... :deevee:

penchief
11-03-2005, 06:44 AM
Don't pay too much attention to Penchief. His LJ fetish has clouded his thought process.

He stole the placenta from the hospital on the day LJ was born and built a shrine for it. Now his life revolves around crusading like a babbling idiot after LJ has good games, and completely disappearing from the BB when LJ has bad games.

Actually, that's not true. I only enter into these discussions when excessive LJ bashing is getting carried away. You'll find that I don't start a lot of threads and I don't get on here and pound my chest when LJ has a good game.

I merely enter into the ongoing debates. This is a legitimate debate and my opinion is as legitimate as anyone elses. Priest deserves his due but he's not the god you all make him out to be. And he's not outperforming LJ.

I think some of you are more interested in paying homage to your idols than you are winning. LJ's talent has been mishandled by DV and AS and it is costing the Chiefs in terms of present and future success, IMO.

JBucc
11-03-2005, 06:46 AM
I never thought I'd say this but I hope Priest retires this year so LJ can take over plus it'll save us some dough.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 06:51 AM
I just wonder how many people are gonna go nuts when the Chiefs walk away from Priest Holmes after this year. No matter how much you love the guy, it's time.

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 06:52 AM
Priest is going to be the one walking way. He's not the type to linger.

chagrin
11-03-2005, 06:54 AM
So he's trying to force Priest out early, eh? We know Priest isn't going to be playing in 3 years and we will need a RB at that time, it be good to have him because once we're rebuilding, it will truly suck if we don't have a solid starting RB at least.

MOhillbilly
11-03-2005, 07:17 AM
IMO KC should have released PH before FA started.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 07:26 AM
ROFL

Larry Johnson is a "thug" because he wants to be on the field.

No wonder this team is a perennial loser.

KCTitus
11-03-2005, 07:32 AM
You think he's unhappy now, wait until he gets Franchised.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 07:41 AM
ROFL

Larry Johnson is a "thug" because he wants to be on the field.

No wonder this team is a perennial loser.

For some reason in this area of the country alot of people think if you aren't playing good little soldier, you're a thug. I mean god forbid the guy actually say what's on his mind to the media.

ChiTown
11-03-2005, 07:44 AM
You think he's unhappy now, wait until he gets Franchised.

ROFL

You know, that might just drive him over the edge. Could make for good TV...............

Iowanian
11-03-2005, 07:49 AM
If Johnson really wants to prove himself a starter...quit your bitching.....Stop Dropping the Rock when you DO get it...he's only got 75 touches, but at least 2 fumbles...which isn't good at all. If he were really a HoF running back, like he seems to think he is...He'd be able to punch the ball in from the 2 once in a while.

As for being a first round pick....there have been alot of 1st round RBs taken from Penn State that didn't do shit.

Shuddap and run so hard they have no choice. I'm glad he wants to play. I'm glad he's angry...Run Angry with a tight grip on the ball, and punch it in routinely within the 5.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 07:54 AM
If Johnson really wants to prove himself a starter...quit your bitching.....Stop Dropping the Rock when you DO get it...he's only got 75 touches, but at least 2 fumbles...which isn't good at all. If he were really a HoF running back, like he seems to think he is...He'd be able to punch the ball in from the 2 once in a while.

As for being a first round pick....there have been alot of 1st round RBs taken from Penn State that didn't do shit.

Shuddap and run so hard they have no choice.

If Larry Johnson was running 12 times for 100 yards every game he'd still be backing up Holmes and seeing half as many touches. So I don't buy the "make them have no choice" arguement. It would take an act of god for Vermiel to not stay with Priest Holmes.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 08:03 AM
If Johnson really wants to prove himself a starter...quit your bitching.....Stop Dropping the Rock when you DO get it...he's only got 75 touches, but at least 2 fumbles...which isn't good at all. If he were really a HoF running back, like he seems to think he is...He'd be able to punch the ball in from the 2 once in a while.

As for being a first round pick....there have been alot of 1st round RBs taken from Penn State that didn't do shit.

Shuddap and run so hard they have no choice. I'm glad he wants to play. I'm glad he's angry...Run Angry with a tight grip on the ball, and punch it in routinely within the 5.

81 touches this year, 2 fumbles.

142 touches last year, ZERO fumbles.

The problem with BOTH Priest and Larry is the rotation, not the players.

Iowanian
11-03-2005, 08:04 AM
I'd prefer to see the guy "who is hot at the time" in the game.

If Priest is getting it done...leave him in....If LJ does good on his series...ride him until he's tired or the momentum changes.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 08:06 AM
I'd prefer to see the guy "who is hot at the time" in the game.

If Priest is getting it done...leave him in....If LJ does good on his series...ride him until he's tired or the momentum changes.

Yep.

For all the talk that this coaching staff gives about "matchups" they NEVER take advantage of them...

ChiefsFan4Life
11-03-2005, 08:07 AM
I'd prefer to see the guy "who is hot at the time" in the game.

If Priest is getting it done...leave him in....If LJ does good on his series...ride him until he's tired or the momentum changes.

That makes perfect sense.

Which the Chiefs have shown they do the opposite of all year.

:banghead:

Otter
11-03-2005, 08:14 AM
The problem with BOTH Priest and Larry is the rotation, not the players.

Yup, I was trying to point out that I don't blame Priest or expect him to give up so LJ can start. Priest has bills to pay and a competitive nature as well.

On the other side of the coin, LJ isn't saying anything wrong. He wants to play, the press knows it and they push him to talk about because it sells newspapers. He's handling it quiet well for a guy his age.

And since I'm on the subject; I don't think the coaches are doing that poorly with the situation either. You have a proven vetern and 3rd year player getting to know the game (both on the field and off).

It's just the way things are. There are 100's of things to bitch about with this team. Having two good running backs who both want to play shouldn't be at the top of the concern list at this point.

siberian khatru
11-03-2005, 08:18 AM
ROFL

You know, that might just drive him over the edge. Could make for good TV...............


"BLACK RAGE! BLACK RAGE!"

http://thecia.com.au/reviews/c/images/chasing-amy-3.jpg

Dartgod
11-03-2005, 08:29 AM
Why does everyone assume that LJ went looking for the media to bitch about playing time? More than likely some reporter, looking for a story on a slow day, sought out LJ, asked him about his playing time and LJ gave them a few quotes which the press has spun into a controversy. I say it's no big deal. The guy has a desire to play. Nothing wrong with that. Yet, some here want to paint him as a thug. :shake:

Dartgod
11-03-2005, 08:31 AM
On the other side of the coin, LJ isn't saying anything wrong. He wants to play, the press knows it and they push him to talk about because it sells newspapers. He's handling it quiet well for a guy his age.
Damn, I guess I should have read the whole thread. You said it better than I.

BigRedChief
11-03-2005, 08:46 AM
He's not saying in any form that Priest sucks and they are idiots for starting him. He's just saying that I've shown promise and need to get the damn ball also.

BTW according to the news of 2003 he signed a 7 year deal. But I can't find out anything about whether they were voidable years at the end on his part.

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-03-2005, 08:51 AM
I'd prefer to see the guy "who is hot at the time" in the game.

If Priest is getting it done...leave him in....If LJ does good on his series...ride him until he's tired or the momentum changes.
I agree with that. I also think it often takes a running back a few series' to get into a groove and Larry getting one series at a time probably makes that hard.

I can understand why he's unhappy but I wish he would do more making the most of his opportunities and less whinning about his lack thereof.

It seems that if he can just get through this year he has a good chance to become the starter next year. I suppose it's tough if you feel like you're in your prime and your missing out on showing your stuff.

Demonpenz
11-03-2005, 08:54 AM
he is going to have plenty of chances when the chiefs are rebuilding

Area 51
11-03-2005, 09:19 AM
Looks like LJ went out and bought an extra large box of Pampers!

Anyong Bluth
11-03-2005, 09:20 AM
Every RB in the league has an ego - Priest going on Monday night football and saying he just wants to get paid and some of his other comments have the same motivation - he just does it in a different light. Love me b/c I'm the man but act humble in it. Confidence is key and Priest has never once backed down in his position of knowing his abilities - HE left the ravens for the same reason...

LJ is simply pissed b/c he knows he will never be given the option of starting b/c Dick has his boys and even if LJ was playing like LT - dick would still have him running backup.

I remember Marty pulling this shit with Gannon.... F*ck that.

I personally think that the RB's should get more carries depending on the D we're facing. A huge D like the Raiders would suit Priest b/c he can attack the corners. A smaller quicker D would benefit LJ his N-S running and punishing the D. Mixing up the look and having a change of pace is great.

Pigheadedness of forcing a player simply b/c of seniority is dumb- go with the hot hand whichever it is game to game...

Area 51
11-03-2005, 09:34 AM
Every RB in the league has an ego - Priest going on Monday night football and saying he just wants to get paid and some of his other comments have the same motivation - he just does it in a different light. Love me b/c I'm the man but act humble in it. Confidence is key and Priest has never once backed down in his position of knowing his abilities - HE left the ravens for the same reason...

LJ is simply pissed b/c he knows he will never be given the option of starting b/c Dick has his boys and even if LJ was playing like LT - dick would still have him running backup.

I remember Marty pulling this shit with Gannon.... F*ck that.

I personally think that the RB's should get more carries depending on the D we're facing. A huge D like the Raiders would suit Priest b/c he can attack the corners. A smaller quicker D would benefit LJ his N-S running and punishing the D. Mixing up the look and having a change of pace is great.

Pigheadedness of forcing a player simply b/c of seniority is dumb- go with the hot hand whichever it is game to game...

And that boys and girls is how free agency was invented!

HemiEd
11-03-2005, 09:43 AM
You think he's unhappy now, wait until he gets Franchised.


No kidding, that has pissed off of a lot silent types. IIRC Will was not to happy with it.

Johnson&Johnson
11-03-2005, 09:43 AM
Larry should shut up until he can punch it in from the 2-yard line on a consistent basis.

I'm a huge LJ fan and all supportive in him wanting to be the featured runner BUT I have to agree with you on this one.

Could it be that you haven't learn to get the "SHORT" yardage when it's needed most? Not to say Priest was a sure thing when it comes to short yardage. Damn I miss Marcus so bad this year. With those 3rd and 2 that we could not convert this year, coaches showed they don't have much confidence with our RBs in short yardage calling play-action sh*t everytime we're 3rd and short. :banghead:

Mr. Kotter
11-03-2005, 09:45 AM
Larry, S.T.F.U.

:rolleyes:

BigRedChief
11-03-2005, 09:48 AM
Yeah he my as well accept it. As long as King Carl is in charge he's a Chief.

Somebody needs to remind him that there is no way out. King Carl will slap the franchise tag on him if he has some kind of voidable years on the contract.

Sorry LJ you are going to work in a town with a lousy hip hop night life and no celebrities to hang with. Deal with it.

ChiefsOne
11-03-2005, 09:58 AM
You people bitching about DV's loyality to his veterans, think how you would feel comparing it to your job. You have seniority over some young kid about 22 he comes in and takes over your position. You are still doing a good job, but they decide to go younger because you are going to retire in a year or two.

How happy would you be?

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-03-2005, 10:00 AM
Yeah he my as well accept it. As long as King Carl is in charge he's a Chief.

Somebody needs to remind him that there is no way out. King Carl will slap the franchise tag on him if he has some kind of voidable years on the contract.

Sorry LJ you are going to work in a town with a lousy hip hop night life and no celebrities to hang with. Deal with it.
I wonder if the joy he felt when he was drafted is still there....

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-03-2005, 10:01 AM
You people bitching about DV's loyality to his veterans, think how you would feel comparing it to your job. You have seniority over some young kid about 22 he comes in and takes over your position. You are still doing a good job, but they decide to go younger because you are going to retire in a year or two.

How happy would you be?
If I were still employed and could just get paid for a one or two year coffee break..... I'd be ok with it.


:D

Area 51
11-03-2005, 10:03 AM
I wonder if the joy he felt when he was drafted is still there....

He is making big money and not having to expose himself to injury on a consistant basis. There will be a time when he gets to do his thing, in KC or somewhere else. The thing RB's have is that if they stay in shape and work out they do not lose skills in the same manner as a QB.

BigRedChief
11-03-2005, 10:05 AM
There will be a time when he gets to do his thing, in KC or somewhere else.

Read post 67. He is stuck in KC. Whether he likes it or not. We have no one better to use the franchise tag on than him.

Valiant
11-03-2005, 10:07 AM
Lets see here, four years left on his contract...

Cannot get short yards, especially goal line yards...

Whines in public...


We have this ****er by the balls right now, let him bitch.. He has four years left, I could care less.. If Larry was as good as he thinks he is we would have won in San Diego...

Area 51
11-03-2005, 10:08 AM
Read post 67. He is stuck in KC. Whether he likes it or not. We have no one better to use the franchise tag on than him.

There is a limit to the tag. In a few years he may be gone, by his choice or by the Chiefs. There is always someone better to replace you, especially if your are a locker room cancer.

BigRedChief
11-03-2005, 10:20 AM
There is a limit to the tag. In a few years he may be gone, by his choice or by the Chiefs. There is always someone better to replace you, especially if your are a locker room cancer.

There is no limit to the tag. None. You can use it on one player every year for the rest of his career. The only option they have is to hold out and not play or get paid and hope to force a trade.

From nfl.com
Part of the process involves "tagging" free agents. Each team is allowed to put a "franchise" tag or a "transition" tag on one of their available players. By doing so, they ensure that they will receive some sort of compensation in draft picks for their player if they sign with another team, but they also in turn offer them a one-year deal at the average salary of either the top five (for franchise) or top 10 (for transition) paid players at their position.

ChiefsOne
11-03-2005, 10:20 AM
If I were still employed and could just get paid for a one or two year coffee break..... I'd be ok with it.


We'll just call you Todd.

Area 51
11-03-2005, 10:26 AM
There is no limit to the tag. None. You can use it on one player every year for the rest of his career. The only option they have is to hold out and not play or get paid and hope to force a trade.

From nfl.com
Part of the process involves "tagging" free agents. Each team is allowed to put a "franchise" tag or a "transition" tag on one of their available players. By doing so, they ensure that they will receive some sort of compensation in draft picks for their player if they sign with another team, but they also in turn offer them a one-year deal at the average salary of either the top five (for franchise) or top 10 (for transition) paid players at their position.

Maybe I should have said a common sense limit. The Chiefs, nor any other team, will keep a cancer just to prove a point. There will come a time when LJ is not considered worth keeping. That time could be nearer than he or we think.

Valiant
11-03-2005, 10:42 AM
Maybe I should have said a common sense limit. The Chiefs, nor any other team, will keep a cancer just to prove a point. There will come a time when LJ is not considered worth keeping. That time could be nearer than he or we think.

No, because the time that comes around priest should be retired... Then he can get all the playing time he wants... Unless we happen to get another decent RB..

jspchief
11-03-2005, 10:43 AM
ROFL

Larry Johnson is a "thug" because he wants to be on the field.

No wonder this team is a perennial loser.Wha?

I thought Larry Johnson was a "thug" because he has a penchant for roughing up women.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 10:44 AM
You people bitching about DV's loyality to his veterans, think how you would feel comparing it to your job. You have seniority over some young kid about 22 he comes in and takes over your position. You are still doing a good job, but they decide to go younger because you are going to retire in a year or two.

How happy would you be?

This is the NFL, at that position at his age, it's his time. He's injury prone, makes alot of money and can you really say he's better than Larry Johnson? Let's face reality of the RB position in the NFL, when you're at Holmes age teams typically wad the guy up and throw him away.

luv
11-03-2005, 10:45 AM
Wha?

I thought Larry Johnson was a "thug" because he has a penchant for roughing up women.
I think that would make him a "pimp".

luv
11-03-2005, 10:47 AM
This is the NFL, at that position at his age, it's his time. He's injury prone, makes alot of money and can you really say he's better than Larry Johnson? Let's face reality of the RB position in the NFL, when you're at Holmes age teams typically wad the guy up and throw him away.
If he's going to be the "next Priest Holmes", then he needs to wait until the first one is done. If Holmes is done, he needs to retire. If he's going to retire, then it will be after the season. Either way, LJ just needs to wait.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 10:47 AM
I think that would make him a "pimp".Oh yea. I always confuse those two.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 10:49 AM
If he's going to be the "next Priest Holmes", then he needs to wait until the first one is done. If Holmes is done, he needs to retire. If he's going to retire, then it will be after the season. Either way, LJ just needs to wait.

Sometimes you have to make a decision that's in the best interest of the team. Right now I'm not sure this team is better with Holmes than it is Johnson. Watch Holmes run this year he's trying to be Barry Sanders dancing around and trying to cut back. Maybe he's hurt, maybe his age is finally catching up to him. It really showed in San Diego he's trying to avoid getting hit and doesn't just power through the holes anymore.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 10:53 AM
This Larry Johnson isn't good in the redzone arguement is being overdone. Are you guys just referring to the Charger game? If so the entire team got beaten down at the line you can't just blame that on Larry.

You're also comparing him to Priest Holmes who over the last 4 years may have been the best redzone back in NFL history. Larry Johnson is a well above average redzone RB, don't act like he's horrible in the redzone. The guy was on pace to score 30 TD's last year with his performance in the last 7 games.

chiefsfan1963
11-03-2005, 10:54 AM
Someone said it earlier but LJ or PH is not the problem it's the managemment. We have 2 quality backs one's close to the end of his career the other is just starting. Personally I would love to see LJ get the majority of the touches from now on and PH be the back up. This would keep Priest fresh for the playoffs and LJ would be in full rhythm and in the groove. AS would have a good opportunity to learn more of what LJ is capable of and make adjustments accordingly. We are wasting a really good opportunity here that many NFL teams are envying.

Personally this will be the last straw. By blowing the handling of this, it could cost us not making the playoffs again! It will also force DV into permament retirement along with the exiting of his coaching staff. Cleaning house will be in order next year, and LJ will finally be our #1 RB and PH if he decides to stay will be the backup.

LJ like him or not deserves most of the carries going forward PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!! He needs more production he needs more mileage on him to really produce down the road. Just like a new car, needs to be broken in. This guy has real potential, but if we mishandle him his potential could be diminished considerably. The kid needs confidence that his coaches believe in him that will go long way in helping him be the best he can be. We don't need to protect PH anymore his better days are behind him! He's a big boy he can handle it. Carl and DV need to do the right thing here! If they don't it will not only affect the team as far as not making the playoffs this year, but for many years to come.

This is a huge decision and must be considered very seriously!!!!!!

Mecca
11-03-2005, 10:57 AM
Did anyone point out that Priest Holmes is hurt again and the season isn't even half over? It's time, people get old, people decline, we're seeing it now with Holmes.

Calcountry
11-03-2005, 11:21 AM
anger seems to be what drives LJ, being happy could be his kryptoniteThere is definitely a "dark side of the force" that drives LJ.

acasas4
11-03-2005, 12:28 PM
Agreed LJ should be getting more carries. IMO however the guy bitches too much. In his rookie season he was complaining about not playing. At that time what he was asking the organization to do was to give him playing time and sit THE best back in the NFL. Since then we've heard more bitching, then a quiet spell, and now more bitching to the media. I think it's time for LJ to shut the f*ck up.(NO CLASS)

Dartgod
11-03-2005, 12:38 PM
Agreed LJ should be getting more carries. IMO however the guy bitches too much. In his rookie season he was complaining about not playing. At that time what he was asking the organization to do was to give him playing time and sit THE best back in the NFL. Since then we've heard more bitching, then a quiet spell, and now more bitching to the media. I think it's time for LJ to shut the f*ck up.(NO CLASS)
Why is everyone assuming that LJ sought out the media in this case?

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 01:01 PM
I just found an interesting stat. After his first 202 carries, Jim Brown was averaging 4.7 yards per carry. LJ, after 215 attempts is at 5.0. This year, Priest is at 3.8 with a career ypc of 4.6.

HemiEd
11-03-2005, 01:12 PM
Did anyone point out that Priest Holmes is hurt again and the season isn't even half over?

This is exactly why they are both important to have IMO. LJ is only one hit away from being out as well.

Calcountry
11-03-2005, 01:16 PM
Larry Johnson is the face of the new NBA, ooops, I mean NFL.

tk13
11-03-2005, 01:22 PM
One thing I don't like about this is everybody assumes Priest is Marshall Faulk Part II. Don't agree with that. Marshall Faulk has carried the load for 10 some odd years. Priest Holmes is just like Larry Johnson, it took him a long, long time to become a feature back in the NFL, I don't think he's the same guy but he's not a beat down washed up player. When LJ is 30 something these people supporting him in this thread are gonna be like "LJ's not old, it took him X number of years to become a starter." But using this argument right now to get LJ more playing time, they'll call Priest old.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 01:27 PM
One thing I don't like about this is everybody assumes Priest is Marshall Faulk Part II. Don't agree with that. Marshall Faulk has carried the load for 10 some odd years. Priest Holmes is just like Larry Johnson, it took him a long, long time to become a feature back in the NFL, I don't think he's the same guy but he's not a beat down washed up player. When LJ is 30 something these people supporting him in this thread are gonna be like "LJ's not old, it took him X number of years to become a starter." But using this argument right now to get LJ more playing time, they'll call Priest old.

Actually, I'm supporting LJ because I think he's better for the team right now. If in 10 years we were in the same situation I'd support who I thought was best for the team winning games. This isn't a personal "I like this guy more than that guy" thing with me.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 01:31 PM
One thing I don't like about this is everybody assumes Priest is Marshall Faulk Part II. Don't agree with that. Marshall Faulk has carried the load for 10 some odd years. Priest Holmes is just like Larry Johnson, it took him a long, long time to become a feature back in the NFL, I don't think he's the same guy but he's not a beat down washed up player. When LJ is 30 something these people supporting him in this thread are gonna be like "LJ's not old, it took him X number of years to become a starter." But using this argument right now to get LJ more playing time, they'll call Priest old.
I love it that you can predict what anybody will be saying when LJ is 30. If his ypc is eight tenths lower than his career YPC that year I'll probably want him replaced if we have somebody like LJ on the bench.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 01:33 PM
One thing I don't like about this is everybody assumes Priest is Marshall Faulk Part II. Don't agree with that. Marshall Faulk has carried the load for 10 some odd years. Priest Holmes is just like Larry Johnson, it took him a long, long time to become a feature back in the NFL, I don't think he's the same guy but he's not a beat down washed up player. When LJ is 30 something these people supporting him in this thread are gonna be like "LJ's not old, it took him X number of years to become a starter." But using this argument right now to get LJ more playing time, they'll call Priest old.

One could certainly make the case that Priest Holmes has been "injury prone" if you look all the way back to college.

Marshall Faulk never had that spectre to deal with.

tk13
11-03-2005, 01:40 PM
One could certainly make the case that Priest Holmes has been "injury prone" if you look all the way back to college.

Marshall Faulk never had that spectre to deal with.
I just don't consider him injury prone. He got hurt on a funky horse collar tackle, and he got whacked in the knee with a helmet when he went flying out of bounds. Let me take a helmet to your knee and we'll see how 'injury prone' you are. It's not like he's Fred Taylor out there... although he's not afraid to give his body up, that's why he's a great red zone back. I think that's just the game of football.

ChiefsOne
11-03-2005, 01:46 PM
Mecca This is the NFL, at that position at his age, it's his time. He's injury prone, makes alot of money and can you really say he's better than Larry Johnson? Let's face reality of the RB position in the NFL, when you're at Holmes age teams typically wad the guy up and throw him away.

Yes I can say Priest is better than LJ. Priest has been great over the last four years. LJ has been good for less than a full year, not his fault, but the truth. LJ is not proven, Priest is (when healthy).

I have said all along they should go with the hot back for the particular game. Priest or LJ doesn't matter. But no way in hell should Priest be the back up or forced to retire.

Show some respect until he is done, then show some class.

jiveturkey
11-03-2005, 01:48 PM
He should be unhappy and I'm glad that he doesn't play the happy card that the coaching staff always likes to play.

If you're pissed you might as well speak up.

stevieray
11-03-2005, 01:49 PM
One could certainly make the case that Priest Holmes has been "injury prone" if you look all the way back to college.

Marshall Faulk never had that spectre to deal with.

The mitigating factor is that he has ALWAYS came back from those injuries.

It's almost surreal, hence the reason he gets the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

He has already put up the numbers and is committed to team success. He has accpeted a lesser role, proving that by helping Larry getting playing time, he's realistic about his health and the success of the team. We should be glad he hasn't taken the prima donna road.

I find it humorous when some say his skills have deteriorated, when he takes a blown play, cuts back and outruns everyone to the endzone.

His goal line production has been incomparable. It's like watching DT.

kcfanXIII
11-03-2005, 01:50 PM
``I can never swallow the situation right here,'' Johnson said Wednesday after the Chiefs went through a practice without many of its top players. ``You can't ask that of any back who's been used to getting the ball in college like I was getting it.''


key words "in college." this is the nfl. just shutup do your job, and when the man steps down, step up.
vermiel does need to play whichever back is working more.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 01:55 PM
Priest Holmes starting now doesn't help the chiefs, it probably hurts them, at this point it's time to turn over the leaf. Holmes's better days are behind him, while Johnsons are ahead of him. At this point LJ has more to offer to the overall team success, then being sentimental about Hurting Holmes feelings.

Holmes is a better goalline back fine, then put him as the goalline back ala pitt with Jerome Bettis, but LJ should get the majority of the touches.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 01:57 PM
I just don't consider him injury prone. He got hurt on a funky horse collar tackle, and he got whacked in the knee with a helmet when he went flying out of bounds. Let me take a helmet to your knee and we'll see how 'injury prone' you are. It's not like he's Fred Taylor out there... although he's not afraid to give his body up, that's why he's a great red zone back. I think that's just the game of football.

Don't forget the fact that he catastrophically injured an ACL in college...

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 02:07 PM
I agree that Vermeil is the problem. The best coaches in this league would have already had LJ busting long TD runs every week. The Chiefs organization has mishandled Johnson from the day they drafted him. And he's justified in his resentment. I'm also getting a little tired of Priest's smugness, too. There's something about his classy facade that seems a little bit disingenuous to me (see contract/injury). Yeah, he's a hard worker and a heady back but for the most part LJ has outperformed him. Yet Priest seems to feel that he's entitled to the bulk of the carries. If he really cared about the Chiefs above his own career even he could see that this situation is hurting the franchise, both now and for the future.

It's easy to be gracious when you're not the one getting screwed.

First of all, where has Priest said he feels he should get the bulk of the carries? Secondly, before you get too carried away in making Priest out to be more about himself than the team, let's remember after the Miami game when DV said in the post game press conference that at one point when LJ was in the game Priest had the opportunity to go back in and said no, let LJ keep pounding it. I have no indications what so ever that Priest cares more about himself than the team. I think he understands that it takes a TEAM to be successful in the league. I also think you have lost your mind if you think otherwise.

We're not going to ever see what LJ is capable of until he gets more than six or seven carries a game. A back like Johnson needs to get into a rhythm just as much as any back does.

You mean like maybe a back like Holmes? We all know he gets better later on in the game, but many seem to want to "forget" that fact in favor of supporting their argument.

And this notion that LJ is motivated by anger is just rationalization bullshit. He'll be a much better back when he's happy and getting enough playing time to show what he can do.

You don't know that to be the case any more than the those who say otherwise.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 02:11 PM
You think he's unhappy now, wait until he gets Franchised.



Oh, damn.

acasas4
11-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Why is everyone assuming that LJ sought out the media in this case?
I didn't say he sought out the media. I said he was bitching to the media. Maybe they sought him out and asked him if he had anything to bitch about. :)

ck_IN
11-03-2005, 02:37 PM
It just seems like LJ is counting the days till he can become a FA.

If we franchise him I'm betting he does a Dillon.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 02:50 PM
One could certainly make the case that Priest Holmes has been "injury prone" if you look all the way back to college.

Marshall Faulk never had that spectre to deal with.
That and he hasn't finished the season in two of the last three years.

Area 51
11-03-2005, 02:52 PM
It just seems like LJ is counting the days till he can become a FA.

If we franchise him I'm betting he does a Dillon.

His loss, RB's are a dime a dozen. We just have to have our dimes ready when the dozen come free.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 02:56 PM
The mitigating factor is that he has ALWAYS came back from those injuries.

It's almost surreal, hence the reason he gets the benefit of the doubt, IMO.

He has already put up the numbers and is committed to team success. He has accpeted a lesser role, proving that by helping Larry getting playing time, he's realistic about his health and the success of the team. We should be glad he hasn't taken the prima donna road.

I find it humorous when some say his skills have deteriorated, when he takes a blown play, cuts back and outruns everyone to the endzone.

His goal line production has been incomparable. It's like watching DT.
One play is too small a sample to judge a player good or bad. See my post # 91. Priest's ypc are down .8 from his career average. A considerable dropoff. LJ is at 4.8 ypc for the year. Priest is a 3.8 The Priest fans like to ignore telling stats llike these. They think we don't like him because he's old.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 03:01 PM
It just seems like LJ is counting the days till he can become a FA.

If we franchise him I'm betting he does a Dillon.
How did Dillon get free?

Calcountry
11-03-2005, 03:13 PM
I just don't consider him injury prone. He got hurt on a funky horse collar tackle, and he got whacked in the knee with a helmet when he went flying out of bounds. Let me take a helmet to your knee and we'll see how 'injury prone' you are. It's not like he's Fred Taylor out there... although he's not afraid to give his body up, that's why he's a great red zone back. I think that's just the game of football.I wonder if Priest will take a reduced paycheck next year and become our Red Zone back.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 03:49 PM
It just seems like LJ is counting the days till he can become a FA.

If we franchise him I'm betting he does a Dillon.

Can you blame him? He's been jerked around since Day 1 by Carl and Vermeil and their little lover's spat about that draft...

HemiEd
11-03-2005, 03:58 PM
You mean like maby a back like Holmes?


I just realized, I have not seen Badgirl around lately? :doh!:

stevieray
11-03-2005, 04:00 PM
One play is too small a sample to judge a player good or bad. See my post # 91. Priest's ypc are down .8 from his career average. A considerable dropoff. LJ is at 4.8 ypc for the year. Priest is a 3.8 The Priest fans like to ignore telling stats llike these. They think we don't like him because he's old.

if his skills had deteriorated, that play doesn't result in a TD.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 04:05 PM
if his skills had deteriorated, that play doesn't result in a TD.
Why are his ypc down so drastically? And BTW, that is just your opinion.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 04:12 PM
I just realized, I have not seen Badgirl around lately? :doh!:


What? Was it the piss poor grammar that made you realize that, or something else?

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 04:15 PM
Why are his ypc down so drastically? And BTW, that is just your opinion.


He's missing out on a lot of carries that keeps him from getting into rhythm, which keeps him from producing the way he has in the past.

Hey, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

HemiEd
11-03-2005, 04:54 PM
What? Was it the piss poor grammar that made you realize that, or something else?


maby < maybe ROFL

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 05:04 PM
maby < maybe ROFL


You know, I kept thinking something looked off but I just chalked it up to my decision to use the word "like" more than was necessary like I was like some kind of like Valley girl.

At least the mispell didn't take place in one of the posts about spelling. :banghead:

HemiEd
11-03-2005, 05:07 PM
You know, I kept thinking something looked off but I just chalked it up to my decision to use the word "like" more than was necessary like I was like some kind of like Valley girl.

At least the mispell didn't take place in one of the posts about spelling. :banghead:


I had some fun with it, thanks! At least it does not have an i or an e in it! :D

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 05:13 PM
I had some fun with it, thanks! At least it does not have an i or an e in it! :D


The only reason I have been permitted to stay on this board the past 5 years, the members enjoy laughing at my stupidity.

HemiEd
11-03-2005, 05:15 PM
The only reason I have been permitted to stay on this board the past 5 years, the members enjoy laughing at my stupidity.

well that gives me hope!

penchief
11-03-2005, 07:00 PM
Agreed LJ should be getting more carries. IMO however the guy bitches too much. In his rookie season he was complaining about not playing. At that time what he was asking the organization to do was to give him playing time and sit THE best back in the NFL. Since then we've heard more bitching, then a quiet spell, and now more bitching to the media. I think it's time for LJ to shut the f*ck up.(NO CLASS)

Nobody thinks he wanted to take Priest's job as a rookie. He was pissed because he was a first round pick capable of doing great things and he was unjustifiably stuffed on the inactive roster for three-fourths of the season because DV and AS got into a pissing match with Carl.

So the kid didn't pick up the blocking schemes right away. Big Whoop. But he could outrun the entire defense to the endzone and run over people on the way. It was incumbent upon the coaching staff to get a talent like LJ ready to contribute. Instead, they let their pettiness hurt the team. Their shortsightedness is still hurting this team.

Give LJ to Bill Parcells, Jeff Fisher, Al Davis, and yes...even Shanarat and you can be certain that they wouldn't have buried him on the inactive roster for the first season and a half. They would have found ways to put the ball in his hands where he could make plays.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 07:08 PM
Nobody thinks he wanted to take Priest's job as a rookie. He was pissed because he was a first round pick capable of doing great things and he was unjustifiably stuffed on the inactive roster for three-fourths of the season because DV and AS got into a pissing match with Carl.

So the kid didn't pick up the blocking schemes right away. Big Whoop. But he could outrun the entire defense to the endzone and run over people on the way. It was incumbent upon the coaching staff to get a talent like LJ ready to contribute. Instead, they let their pettiness hurt the time. Their shortsightedness is still hurting this team.

Give LJ to Bill Parcells, Jeff Fisher, Al Davis, and yes...even Shanarat and you can be certain that they wouldn't have buried him on the inactive roster for the first season and a half. They would have found ways to put the ball in his hands where he could make plays.


Of course they would have, they didn't have Priest Holmes in their backfield. Good grief.

Not only that, but we had a perfectly fine back up to compliment him. LJ had yet to prove anything in the NFL, and frankly, still has a lot to prove.

penchief
11-03-2005, 07:23 PM
Of course they would have, they didn't have Priest Holmes in their backfield. Good grief.

Not only that, but we had a perfectly fine back up to compliment him. LJ had yet to prove anything in the NFL, and frankly, still has a lot to prove.

Playmakers are playmakers whether they are rookies or not. Johnson is a playmaker and we are not utilizing his talents accordingly. For two and a half season we have mishandled this situation. Everywhere else in this league backs like LJ get their chance but not here. He's better than McGee and better than Stephen Jackson. Both of whom forced very good incumbents to the bench because they had coaches who could read the writing on the wall.

All one has to do is look at Vermeil's comment about how it doesn't matter how great LJ does Priest is the starting running back. How do you expect Johnson to feel? Especially after the way he was treated his first two seasons? When the person most relevant to your opportunity to succeed tells everyone who wants to listen that it doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to unseat the guy ahead of you even if you're outperforming him, that has to suck. How would you prefer him to feel?

No wonder he's disillusioned and resentful. Anybody would be pissed about that.

Wile_E_Coyote
11-03-2005, 07:35 PM
http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/index
the voters on the Who is the best running back tandem poll like Priest & LJ

Anyong Bluth
11-03-2005, 07:38 PM
I'll say this again for the 1st time.

THE COACHING STAFF DOESN'T KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT EVALUATING WHAT PLAYER WILL DO BETTER IN A GIVEN SITUATION.

When we got Priest, the staff talked about using him as a 3rd down change up back and planned on a running back by committee situation. I remember reading and hearing DV talk about how he would not be expected to be a 25 touchs per game type of guy- and his K (contract) dictated it, which is why Priest wanted some $ after blowing them out of the water.

Fast forward to the "take off the Diapers" comment. Well, people can bitch and moan about LJ's reaction, but having your Head Coach basically Judas kiss you a matter of days before your 1st start in the NFL does not exactly equate to the warm fuzzy teary eyed vermeil we all jest about. If I'm a 22 year old kid that has been used as leverage in contact talks with priest and a backup plan if his hip was jacked and my coaching staff treat me like a 2nd class hooker, yeah, I'm pissed. The coaches, and I'd bet pretty much anyone here wrote him off based on his limited number of carries b4 he got a chance to get a few more reps and get some rythmn.

LJ is gonna be here b/c Carl has his draft day poster boy, and I'm glad that asswipe backed into some draft success, even if he blindly did it b/c his hand was forced.

As for Holmes not being injury prone - look, EVERYONE gets whacked around in the game - Priest gets whacked and he gets hurt. He has a history of getting injured and out for periods of time. SO yeah- he is injury prone and bottom line- can't be counted on to not play a full season with as many reps as he's been given. But, as someone said earlier, that he is hurting this team or can't contribute- thats WAY OFF.

Depending on the D we are facing, each back presents a unique advantage in attacking it and can provide a great change of pace if the other back is getting the heavy load that day. IF our staff weren't obsess with trying to match their St Louis days- they see that Denver is doing this same shit with two lesser back. Tatum and Anderson aren't worthy of sniffing LJ and Priest's jock.

Vermeil is gone this year- Priest will remain the starter and our new coach i'm sure says its an open competition in camp next year. LJ wins and Priest still gets a pretty good number of reps and goal line touches.

I even think if Dick were back next year that he would open up the job and award LJ it in the end- b/c he knows the media would be at his nuts. Then again he still drinks from the Dexter McCleon over Warfield cup, so what the f*ck do I know. That wine of his must be killer

jspchief
11-03-2005, 07:45 PM
My opinion is that a portion of LJ's success this year is due to the fact that he gets to come in with fresh legs against a defense that Priest just spent two drives softening up and wearing out.


If LJ ever has to carry the full load, his ypc will drop. Already, in the two games where he had over 10 carries, his ypc is way below his avg for the year.

No one seems to understand that part of LJ's success is due to the fact that he's being thrust into favorable situations.

stevieray
11-03-2005, 08:02 PM
Playmakers are playmakers whether they are rookies or not. Johnson is a playmaker and we are not utilizing his talents accordingly. For two and a half season we have mishandled this situation. Everywhere else in this league backs like LJ get their chance but not here. He's better than McGee and better than Stephen Jackson. Both of whom forced very good incumbents to the bench because they had coaches who could read the writing on the wall.

All one has to do is look at Vermeil's comment about how it doesn't matter how great LJ does Priest is the starting running back. How do you expect Johnson to feel? Especially after the way he was treated his first two seasons? When the person most relevant to your opportunity to succeed tells everyone who wants to listen that it doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to unseat the guy ahead of you even if you're outperforming him, that has to suck. How would you prefer him to feel?

No wonder he's disillusioned and resentful. Anybody would be pissed about that.

You're addicted to failure. That's why you always have to create some psuedo boogeyman, so you can dudley doright your position.

penchief
11-03-2005, 08:03 PM
My opinion is that a portion of LJ's success this year is due to the fact that he gets to come in with fresh legs against a defense that Priest just spent two drives softening up and wearing out.


If LJ ever has to carry the full load, his ypc will drop. Already, in the two games where he had over 10 carries, his ypc is way below his avg for the year.

No one seems to understand that part of LJ's success is due to the fact that he's being thrust into favorable situations.

This is where we disagree. The more opportunities he gets the more of a chance he breaks a long one because that is what he does. I think defenses actually key on LJ because they know that when he's in there's a good chance he's getting his token carries. His power, speed, and elusiveness in the open field beg for more carries and require more plays designed to take advantage of those attributes. Six to eight carries a game is not going to be indicative of what a he can do when he gets warmed up or when it is not always expected that he will be getting the ball.

I'm at the point where I almost hope he goes somewhere else because this is getting old. As a chief fan of 34 years, it's discouraging to see us not make appropriate personnel decisions at a position in which we have been historically woeful. Everybody deserves to get what they want. If he did go somewhere else Cheif fans could keep their high moral standards, Priest's priveleged status among the fans would be preserved, and it would leave the door open for whatever future Tony Reed or Ted McKnight comes our way. LJ can go to an offense that understands how to utilize his talent and competitive desire. But it's gonna hurt seeing him succeed in a big way for some other team.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 08:07 PM
Playmakers are playmakers whether they are rookies or not. Johnson is a playmaker and we are not utilizing his talents accordingly. For two and a half season we have mishandled this situation. Everywhere else in this league backs like LJ get their chance but not here. He's better than McGee and better than Stephen Jackson. Both of whom forced very good incumbents to the bench because they had coaches who could read the writing on the wall.

All one has to do is look at Vermeil's comment about how it doesn't matter how great LJ does Priest is the starting running back. How do you expect Johnson to feel? Especially after the way he was treated his first two seasons? When the person most relevant to your opportunity to succeed tells everyone who wants to listen that it doesn't matter what you do, you're not going to unseat the guy ahead of you even if you're outperforming him, that has to suck. How would you prefer him to feel?

No wonder he's disillusioned and resentful. Anybody would be pissed about that.


I don't disagree he has been handled incorrectly in the past, hell, just drafting him was a bullshit thing to do the kid considering why it was done. And I do not begrudge him his sore feelings, but I do the way he handles the situation. But none of that has a damn thing to do with my case.

My case is that Priest is still producing, and producing in a way that would satisfy most teams. My case is that Priest is a veteran who has been to and won a SB. My case is that with this being our last hurrah before we start rebuilding we need his leadership, his knowledge of the game, his heart, and his ability to make the plays and score the points we need.

Does that mean we do not play LJ at all, or very little? Of course not. But it does mean Priest gets the start. You then make decisions about which back is best suited for the game, or a specific situation as the game unravels. Priest has proven over a succession of years that he is the real deal. LJ has done his thing for half a year, and a few times this year after Priest has already softened up the D.

You dance with the person what brung ya', and that person was Priest, the number one reason we have been in the top three offenses the past few years. Next year the roles can reverse, this year Priest is, and should be the man.

penchief
11-03-2005, 08:09 PM
You're addicted to failure. That's why you always have to create some psuedo boogeyman, so you can dudley doright your position.

I'm not sure what you're implying by whatever you mean how does it pertain to which running back is better for this team's present and future success?

And just who is the bogeyman?

jspchief
11-03-2005, 08:13 PM
This is where we disagree. The more opportunities he gets the more of a chance he breaks a long one because that is what he does. I think defenses actually key on LJ because they know that when he's in there's a good chance he's getting his token carries. His power, speed, and elusiveness in the open field beg for more carries and require more plays designed to take advantage of those attributes. Six to eight carries a game is not going to be indicative of what a he can do when he gets warmed up or when it is not always expected that he will be getting the ball.

Yea, with more carries, he'll get warmed up. And also worn out.

With the start, he'll be facing that fresh, hyped up D. And he'll be getting those 0, 1, and 2 yards early gains that bring a YPC average down.

You wait. Once he sees a full time load, his ridiculous YPC will drop significantly.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 08:24 PM
Of course they would have, they didn't have Priest Holmes in their backfield. Good grief.

Not only that, but we had a perfectly fine back up to compliment him. LJ had yet to prove anything in the NFL, and frankly, still has a lot to prove.
No, he had perfectly fine backup to comlEment him. Live by the sword, die by the sword. And so far LJ has proved he has a higher ypc than Jim Brown had after similar amounts of carries. Yes, Jim Brown!!!! How much evidence do you people need?

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 08:30 PM
You know, I kept thinking something looked off but I just chalked it up to my decision to use the word "like" more than was necessary like I was like some kind of like Valley girl.

At least the mispell didn't take place in one of the posts about spelling. :banghead:
Har har har, you misspelled misspell !!!!!!!!!

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 08:32 PM
No, he had perfectly fine backup to comlEment him.

Yeah so I used an "i" when I should have used an "e". And YOU completely left a letter out. One should always ensure one's own spelling is proper before pointing out another's errors.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. And so far LJ has proved he has a higher ypc than Jim Brown had after similar amounts of carries. Yes, Jim Brown!!!! How much evidence do you people need?


I'll need to see it over a sustained period of time before I start comparing him to one of the greats with any more than a whimsical "oh BTW" type of remark.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 08:35 PM
Har har har, you misspelled misspell !!!!!!!!!


*yawn*

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 08:38 PM
Some of these arguments are ridiculous.

Priest isn't taking a full load either. Would his average drop with more carries?

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 08:42 PM
Yeah so I used an "i" when I should have used an "e". And YOU completely left a letter out. One should always ensure one's own spelling is proper before pointing out another's errors.




I'll need to see it over a sustained period of time before I start comparing him to one of the greats with any more than a whimsical "oh BTW" type of remark.
So where did I leave a letter out? And yeah, it's "yawn" when you f*ck up but you feel the need to correct folks when it's them. I've found two errors in your last two posts. And misspelling misspell is classic.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 08:45 PM
Some of these arguments are ridiculous.

Priest isn't taking a full load either. Would his average drop with more carries?No, because he would actually get to run against the defenses he wears down. Instead of just paving the road for LJ to run on.

Why do you think Holmes' averages get so much better in the second half of games?

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 08:50 PM
No, because he would actually get to run against the defenses he wears down. Instead of just paving the road for LJ to run on.

Why do you think Holmes' averages get so much better in the second half of games?
OK, how do you explain LJ's 4.8 ypc last year with Priest nowhere in sight? LJ is currently ahead of Jim Brown's ypc pace. Yeah, Priest did that.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 08:51 PM
So where did I leave a letter out? And yeah, it's "yawn" when you f*ck up but you feel the need to correct folks when it's them. I've found two errors in your last two posts. And misspelling misspell is classic.


Every bit as classic as misspelling the word you were attempting to correct me on by leaving out a letter. You spelled "complEment" "comlEment", dick head.

As far as my feeling the need to correct others' spelling, WTF are you talking about? Your error was the first I pointed out, and that was after YOU felt the need to point out an error to me. I think you are going senile old man, better check yourself into a home. I'll await your apology, but I won't expect it.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 08:57 PM
Every bit as classic as misspelling the word you were attempting to correct me on by leaving out a letter. You spelled "complEment" "comlEment", dick head.

As far as my feeling the need to correct others' spelling, WTF are you talking about? You error was the first I pointed out, and that was after YOU felt the need to point out an error to me. I think you are going senile old man, better check yourself into a home. I'll await your apology, but I won't expect it.
Yeah, I have a new keyboard that is giving me shit. I have to proofread every sentence I type. But it doesn't change the meaning of words like yours does. Compliment and complement are two different words. And you apparently didn't know that. It's pretty apparent that mine was a typo while both of yours were ignorance. I can keep this up forever. Can you?

jspchief
11-03-2005, 08:58 PM
OK, how do you explain LJ's 4.8 ypc last year with Priest nowhere in sight? LJ is currently ahead of Jim Brown's ypc pace. Yeah, Priest did that.The same way I explain Priest's 4.6 YPC last year. Our line was playing a lot better.

I'm not saying LJ will be helpless without Holmes. I'm just saying that he's running in a pretty favorable situation this year, and I don't believe he would have 5.3 if he was the sole RB.

LJ's style of running lends itself to gaudy numbers one week, and very pedestrian numbers other weeks. Look at last year where had games where he only averaged 2.7, 3.2, 2.1.

You make it sound like he breaks off long runs in every game he plays in, and that just isn't the case.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 09:04 PM
Yeah, I have a new keyboard that is givning me shit. I have to proofread every sentence I type. But it doesn't change the meaning of words like your does. Compliment and complement are two different words. And you apparently didn't know that. It's pretty apparent that mine was a typo while both of yours were ignorance. [B]I can keep this up forever. Can you?[B]


Sure I could. I could counter your "new keyboard" (I've seen same lame excuses before, but jeez...) with the fact that I have been drinking through out the day, but I have no intention of doing so, because I'm not looking to make excuses. I have errors all of the time, and so do a great many other people, but I don't feel the need to correct them on it (contrary to your false accusation). It would seem you do, good for you, the spelling police nabbed another offender. But I do not see what it has to do with the price of butter in Moscow. It does not relate to the subject at hand in any way.

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 09:06 PM
No, because he would actually get to run against the defenses he wears down. Instead of just paving the road for LJ to run on.

Why do you think Holmes' averages get so much better in the second half of games?

Check out his fourth quarter average. It sucks, just like LJ's.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 09:06 PM
The same way I explain Priest's 4.6 YPC last year. Our line was playing a lot better.

I'm not saying LJ will be helpless without Holmes. I'm just saying that he's running in a pretty favorable situation this year, and I don't believe he would have 5.3 if he was the sole RB.

LJ's style of running lends itself to gaudy numbers one week, and very pedestrian numbers other weeks. Look at last year where had games where he only averaged 2.7, 3.2, 2.1.

You make it sound like he breaks off long runs in every game he plays in, and that just isn't the case.
OK, I need some evidence of these 2.7, 3.2 and 2.1 games. Which ones are they? Although it doesn't really make any difference when talking about ypc. You seem to see lots of negative things about LJ that I don't see. Earlier you called him a fumbler. Since LJ has been here he has fumbled twice. Priest has also fumbled twice in that same period. So if LJ is a fumbler, so is Priest.

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 09:07 PM
LJ's style of running lends itself to gaudy numbers one week, and very pedestrian numbers other weeks.


Kind of like Priest? He of the 14 carries for 18 yards and 14 carries for 38 yards.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 09:10 PM
OK, I need some evidence of these 2.7, 3.2 and 2.1 games. Which ones are they? Although it doesn't really make any difference when talking about ypc. You seem to see lots of negative things about LJ that I don't see. Earlier you called him a fumbler. Since LJ has been here he has fumbled twice. Priest has also fumbled twice in that same period. So if LJ is a fumbler, so is Priest.

@TB 2.1 YPC
OAK 3.2 YPC
@SD 2.7 YPC

LJ has fumbled twice this year in 75 carries.
Holmes has fumbled once in 119 carries.

Not to mention the spot on the field where LJ has fumbled.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 09:13 PM
Kind of like Priest? He of the 14 carries for 18 yards and 14 carries for 38 yards.Yes, like Priest. Difference being, Holmes gets more carries early in the game against a fresh D that brings down his YPC avg.

You can't possibly believe that LJ would keep up his 5.3 avg as a full time RB all year. You're smarter than that GoChiefs.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 09:14 PM
Sure I could. I could counter your "new keyboard" (I've seen same lame excuses before, but jeez...) with the fact that I have been drinking through out the day, but I have no intention of doing so, because I'm not looking to make excuses. I have errors all of the time, and so do a great many other people, but I don't feel the need to correct them on it (contrary to your false accusation). It would seem you do, good for you, the spelling police nabbed another offender. But I do not see what it has to do with the price of butter in Moscow. It does not relate to the subject at hand in any way.
Hey, junior, I found it humorous that you were correcting people while making really serious errors yourself. And that is the only reason I corrected you. I can either go back to letting your errors pass or continue to correct you. Your call. And I see you resorted to personal attacks as I was kicking your ass. A sure sign you are losing.

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 09:15 PM
Of course not. But it's equally foolish to believe Priest would get 5.3 ypc if he was getting more playing time.

Hell, anyone could see the difference in the Washington game when they yanked Priest out.

keg in kc
11-03-2005, 09:18 PM
@TB 2.1 YPC
OAK 3.2 YPC
@SD 2.7 YPC

LJ has fumbled twice this year in 75 carries.
Holmes has fumbled once in 119 carries.

Not to mention the spot on the field where LJ has fumbled.The weakness of statistical "analysis" like this is the assumption that LJ would fumble at the same rate if he had the additional 119 carries, or that Priest would not have fumbled twice (or more) had he carried the ball the 75 times that LJ did. In fact, statistics mean absolutely nothing, they don't indicate in any way what would or would not have happened had a different guy carried the ball.

But hey, if we're making assumptions, I would assume that Priest would probably have fumbled at least one of the times that LJ did, when Kearse hit him in the backfield a millisecond after the handoff. And I wouldn't have 'blamed' him for it any more than I did LJ.

And I want a #2 back who isn't satisfied with a backup role. That's exactly the right attitude, it breeds competition.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 09:18 PM
Of course not. But it's equally foolish to believe Priest would get 5.3 ypc if he was getting more playing time.

Hell, anyone could see the difference in the Washington game when they yanked Priest out.And I never claimed or insinuated as much.

All I said is LJ is benefitting from getting on the field in a favorable situation.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 09:19 PM
Hey, junior, I found it humorous that you were correcting people while making really serious errors yourself. And that is the only reason I corrected you. I can either go back to letting your errors pass or continue to correct you. Your call. And I see you resorted to personal attacks as I was kicking your ass. A sure sign you are losing.


I'm still waiting for you to show me where in this thread I was correcting anyone's spelling errors until I did so with you just recently. Go ahead, point it out to me, and if I'm wrong, I won't apologize on this thread, I'll start a whole new one that is nothing but an apology to you.

So prove it, or shut the f#ck up.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 09:20 PM
The weakness of statistical "analysis" like this is the assumption that LJ would fumble at the same rate if he had the additional 119 carries, or that Priest would not have fumbled twice (or more) had he carried the ball the 75 times that LJ did. In fact, statistics mean absolutely nothing, they don't indicate in any way what would or would not have happened had a different guy carried the ball.

But hey, if we're making assumptions, I would assume that Priest would probably have fumbled at least one of the times that LJ did, when Kearse hit him in the backfield a millisecond after the handoff. And I wouldn't have 'blamed' him for it any more than I did LJ.All I know is LJ has fumbled more frequently this year.

And Kearse's helmet didn't cause that fumble. LJ was dropping it before he even got hit.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 09:25 PM
I'm still waiting for you to show me where in this thread I was correcting anyone's spelling errors until I did so with you just recently. Go ahead, point it out to me, and if I'm wrong, I won't apologize on this thread, I'll start a whole new one that is nothing but an apology to you.

So prove it, or shut the f#ck up.
Whoa!!! Now we're getting mad. Another sure sign of getting one's ass kicked. You were correcting grammar, i.e. specifically the "i before e" rule. Shut the f*ck up yourself!!

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 09:31 PM
All I know is LJ has fumbled more frequently this year.

And Kearse's helmet didn't cause that fumble. LJ was dropping it before he even got hit.
I need to come watch your TV. It has lots of shit mine doesn't. On second thought, that might not be a good idea.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 09:33 PM
Whoa!!! Now we're getting mad. Another sure sign of getting one's ass kicked. You were correcting grammar, i.e. specifically the "i before e" rule. Shut the f*ck up yourself!!


First of all, wrong thread. That was taking place some place else.

Secondly, I wasn't correcting grammar, I never told anyone they were wrong or had a f#ck up, I pointed out that there was another part to the rule, and did so only AFTER they started wondering about some of the "exceptions" that were covered by the second half of said rule. I was not correcting grammar, I was clearing up their stated confusion.

If that is the best you got, you better quit playing, because that is as weak as Bartee's play at CB.

jspchief
11-03-2005, 09:34 PM
I need to come watch your TV. It has lots of shit mine doesn't. On second thought, that might not be a good idea.If you're claiming the hit caused the fumble, you need to go back and watch it again. LJ was definately dropping the ball before Kearse got to him. The TV replay shows it in slow motion, and it is clear as day.

I'll bet a thousand bucks on it right now.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 09:35 PM
First of all, wrong thread. That was taking place some place else.

Secondly, I wasn't correcting grammar, I never told anyone they were wrong or had a f#ck up, I pointed out that there was another part to the rule, and did so only AFTER they started wondering about some of the "exceptions" that were covered by the second half of said rule. I was not correcting grammar, I was clearing up their stated confusion.

If that is the best you got, you better quit playing, because that is as weak as Bartee's play at CB.
I can handle you anytime, youngster, it's a combination of education and experience.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 09:39 PM
I can handle you anytime, youngster, it's a combination of education and experience.


Which is why you clearly won this time. :rolleyes:

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 09:48 PM
How said is it that Priest's die-hard fans refuse to accept reality?

You are sitting there making excuses for him.

I don't see anyone making excuses for LJ. 5.3 yards per carry needs no excuses.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 09:50 PM
Which is why you clearly won this time. :rolleyes:
Then I should feel good and I don't. I just thought it funny you were being the grammar guru while making those mistakes. When you look back on it later, you will too. Phobia once challenged my use of a word or phrase and said he only did it because I was a grammar nazi. We learned we were both right that time. But it caused me to quit correcting people (unless I could use it to make fun of somebody that needed it) So now I just let folks bask in their ignorance and everybody is happy.

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 09:53 PM
How said is it that Priest's die-hard fans refuse to accept reality?

You are sitting there making excuses for him.

I don't see anyone making excuses for LJ. 5.3 yards per carry needs no excuses.


I don't know what reality you want us to accept. Priest is still performing at a respectable level, inspite of lost carries.

It is the die-hard LJ fans who refuse to accept that reality.

Count Zarth
11-03-2005, 09:54 PM
"acceptable" is not good enough. LJ deserves more carries.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 10:01 PM
I don't know what reality you want us to accept. Priest is still performing at a respectable level, inspite of lost carries.

It is the die-hard LJ fans who refuse to accept that reality.
Depends on what you call a repectable level. I don't consider 3.8 ypc to be respectable. Not when LJ is at one third again more than that at 5.3. It is the die hard Priest fans that won't accept that. Please explain yourself. JSP and TK have done everything except address these numbers. TK said earlier today that we are just anti-Priest because he is old. Then JSP says Priest is "softening up" the defense for LJ. Yeah, All sorts of BS except explain the numbers. Can you do any better than they did?

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 10:03 PM
Then I should feel good and I don't. I just thought it funny you were being the grammar guru while making those mistakes. When you look back on it later, you will too. Phobia once challenged my use of a word or phrase and said he only did it because I was a grammar nazi. We learned we were both right that time. But it caused me to quit correcting people (unless I could use it to make fun of somebody that needed it) So now I just let folks bask in their ignorance and everybody is happy.


Oh yeah, some grammar guru, I admitted that I had forgotten all of the other rules except that one. Sounds like someone trying to pass himself off as an expert all right. Seriously, Skip, you are reeeeeally reaching here.

It is because I know that I make errors here and there that I do not correct people in their spelling, unless they are the nazis who always do and they f#ck up themselves. And that is why I was not correcting anyone in that other thread. I said nothing until I came across the post wondering about some of the supposed exceptions to the rule. It wasn't correcting, it couldn't be, because they were not wrong, they were simply missing (or had forgotten) part of the puzzle.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 10:14 PM
Oh yeah, some grammar guru, I admitted that I had forgotten all of the other rules except that one. Sounds like someone trying to pass himself off as an expert all right. Seriously, Skip, you are reeeeeally reaching here.

It is because I know that I make errors here and there that I do not correct people in their spelling, unless they are the nazis who always do and they f#ck up themselves. And that is why I was not correcting anyone in that other thread. I said nothing until I came across the post wondering about some of the supposed exceptions to the rule. It wasn't correcting, it couldn't be, because they were not wrong, they were simpley missing (or had forgotten) part of the puzzle.
I'm not an expert at all. An 8th grade English teacher would cut me up. But I would like to know more about what all the LJ backers can't accept. You know, the post above this one?

Raiderhader
11-03-2005, 10:21 PM
Depends on what you call a repectable level. I don't consider 3.8 ypc to be respectable. Not when LJ is at one third again more than that at 5.3. It is the die hard Priest fans that won't accept that. Please explain yourself. JSP and TK have done everything except address these numbers. TK said earlier today that we are just anti-Priest because he is old. Then JSP says Priest is "softening up" the defense for LJ. Yeah, All sorts of BS except explain the numbers. Can you do any better than they did?


The problem is that you are so caught up in the numbers that you are losing sight of the intangibles. Priest brings so much more to the field than does LJ simply due to attitude and experience, mostly experience.

Are LJ's numbers going to be a little better than Priest's? I would hope so, LJ is a much younger man with out all of the mileage that Priest has. If they were not higher I would be surprised and disappointed. However, LJ has not demonstrated to me the maturity I need to see of him to feel confident in what he is going to do in a big game that is on the line. Priest is proven, LJ is not. For all we know he is a flash in the pan, or he could be the next Jim Brown. The point is that we do not know, we can merely speculate based on a handfull of games from last year, when our OL was healthy and still playing it's best.

By all means, run LJ into the ground if he is having success against a certain team, but start Priest, give him the shot first to do the job he has done so well for us in the past (and continues to do well at this year, despite what some are saying).

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 10:45 PM
The problem is that you are so caught up in the numbers that you are losing sight of the intangibles. Priest brings so much more to the field than does LJ simply due to attitude and experience, mostly experience.

Are LJ's numbers going to be a little better than Priest's? I would hope so, LJ is a much younger man with out all of the mileage that Priest has. If they were not higher I would be surprised and disappointed. However, LJ has not demonstrated to me the maturity I need to see of him to feel confident in what he is going to do in a big game that is on the line. Priest is proven, LJ is not. For all we know he is a flash in the pan, or he could be the next Jim Brown. The point is that we do not know, we can merely speculate based on a handfull of games from last year, when our OL was healthy and still playing it's best.

By all means, run LJ into the ground if he is having success against a certain team, but start Priest, give him the shot first to do the job he has done so well for us in the past (and continues to do well at this year, despite what some are saying).
Hey, brother, with all due respect, that is just so much mumbo jumbo. No better at all than TK or JSP. Just more verbose. Were you aware that SF cut Joe Montana loose while knowing full well he had a couple of good years left? The Chiefs kinda proved that whether you believe it or not. And, this kind of stuff has been going on in the NFL for at least 50 years. Just because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Because it is a well established fact that fading stars finish their careers with other teams. I watched Unitas implode and go to the Rams . OJ too, I think.. Actually, the number is endless when you consider players like Amos Zeroue to SD to wherever he is now. I'm finding it is the younger fans like JSP, TK and yourself that want to ride that horse into the ground. It's us older ranchers that want to take the load off the stud and keep him around to admire and use for spot duty like short yardage and goalline situations. VD is an idiot and has his own vendetta against LJ So discount what VD says. LJ is making a fool out of VD.

Mecca
11-04-2005, 01:14 AM
Hey, brother, with all due respect, that is just so much mumbo jumbo. No better at all than TK or JSP. Just more verbose. Were you aware that SF cut Joe Montana loose while knowing full well he had a couple of good years left? The Chiefs kinda proved that whether you believe it or not. And, this kind of stuff has been going on in the NFL for at least 50 years. Just because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Because it is a well established fact that fading stars finish their careers with other teams. I watched Unitas implode and go to the Rams . OJ too, I think.. Actually, the number is endless when you consider players like Amos Zeroue to SD to wherever he is now. I'm finding it is the younger fans like JSP, TK and yourself that want to ride that horse into the ground. It's us older ranchers that want to take the load off the stud and keep him around to admire and use for spot duty like short yardage and goalline situations. VD is an idiot and has his own vendetta against LJ So discount what VD says. LJ is making a fool out of VD.

I agree with this, alot of people on this board are overly sentimental toward certain players. You have to think about the present and the future not if you're going to hurt Priest Holmes feelings for what he has done. Keyword there being "has done".

luv
11-04-2005, 01:25 AM
I agree with this, alot of people on this board are overly sentimental toward certain players. You have to think about the present and the future not if you're going to hurt Priest Holmes feelings for what he has done. Keyword there being "has done".
Give me the damn ball! :deevee:
I wanna play! :deevee:
I'm better than Priest, but you won't give me a chance! :deevee:

Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

Respect. We're seemingly going through a transition period. We have a lot of older players, yes. They've paid their dues and deserve respect. Not a 'get out the way oldtimer' attitude. We will have our year. It may not be this year. There is a thing called patience. Now is the time for the younger players to pay dues while the older players are getting their respect.

I'm not that much older than the 'younger generation', but I can already see how much everything is so rush rush with everyone. Everyone wants everything right now.

Rausch
11-04-2005, 01:35 AM
Is it a ****ing crime to be an azzhole?

Give it a second. Think about it.

Once LJ gets his chance (and I'd bet money it's next year) and he runs for 11ty billion yards I'll buy him a "I voted for Stalin 'cause he nuked the gay baby whales for Jesus...and they DESERVED IT" T-shirt...

luv
11-04-2005, 01:42 AM
Is it a ****ing crime to be an azzhole?

Give it a second. Think about it.

Once LJ gets his chance (and I'd bet money it's next year) and he runs for 11ty billion yards I'll buy him a "I voted for Stalin 'cause he nuked the gay baby whales for Jesus...and they DESERVED IT" T-shirt...
I agree that he will get his chance next year. But, until then, he just needs to STFD and STFU until he's told to get up and play. :)

Rausch
11-04-2005, 01:45 AM
I agree that he will get his chance next year. But, until then, he just needs to STFD and STFU until he's told to get up and play. :)

And women are to speak only when spoken to.

Right?...

luv
11-04-2005, 01:46 AM
And women are to speak only when spoken to.

Right?...
Nope. Typical male. Wrong, as usual. :p

greg63
11-04-2005, 02:13 AM
Give me the damn ball! :deevee:
I wanna play! :deevee:
I'm better than Priest, but you won't give me a chance! :deevee:

Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

Respect. We're seemingly going through a transition period. We have a lot of older players, yes. They've paid their dues and deserve respect. Not a 'get out the way oldtimer' attitude. We will have our year. It may not be this year. There is a thing called patience. Now is the time for the younger players to pay dues while the older players are getting their respect.

I'm not that much older than the 'younger generation', but I can already see how much everything is so rush rush with everyone. Everyone wants everything right now.
Gotta go to work at 7am, but couldn't sleep so here I am. FWIW I agree that there seems to be, lately, this incredible impatience particularly with younger generations. I was no different twenty years ago, and I agree with your post luv. Speaking as one of the older generation at forty-two the thing that I find most challenging is patience with the younger generation's impatience. It's the "Lord give me patience, and I want it NOW!" mentality. You probably have the best of perspective on this in that you are not that far removed from the younger generation, but yet have lived long enough to mature. IMO

Rausch
11-04-2005, 02:16 AM
Gotta go to work at 7am, but couldn't sleep so here I am. FWIW I agree that there seems to be, lately, this incredible impatience particularly with younger generations. I was no different twenty years ago, and I agree with your post luv. Speaking as one of the older generation at forty-two the thing that I find most challenging is patience with the younger generation's impatience. It's the "Lord give me patience, and I want it NOW!" mentality. You probably have the best of perspective on this in that you are not that far removed from the younger generation, but yet have lived long enough to mature. IMO

Andrew Carnegie disagrees...

luv
11-04-2005, 02:17 AM
Hey dorkus, clear out some messages or get on messenger. You know who you are.

greg63
11-04-2005, 02:33 AM
Hey dorkus, clear out some messages or get on messenger. You know who you are.
ROFL
Who me???

onescrewleftuntwisted
11-04-2005, 02:34 AM
thats life with dicky

greg63
11-04-2005, 02:37 AM
Then I should feel good and I don't. I just thought it funny you were being the grammar guru while making those mistakes. When you look back on it later, you will too. Phobia once challenged my use of a word or phrase and said he only did it because I was a grammar nazi. We learned we were both right that time. But it caused me to quit correcting people (unless I could use it to make fun of somebody that needed it) So now I just let folks bask in their ignorance and everybody is happy.

ROFLROFLROFLROFL

I've done a lot of basking Skip.

greg63
11-04-2005, 02:44 AM
Hey, brother, with all due respect, that is just so much mumbo jumbo. No better at all than TK or JSP. Just more verbose. Were you aware that SF cut Joe Montana loose while knowing full well he had a couple of good years left? The Chiefs kinda proved that whether you believe it or not. And, this kind of stuff has been going on in the NFL for at least 50 years. Just because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Because it is a well established fact that fading stars finish their careers with other teams. I watched Unitas implode and go to the Rams . OJ too, I think.. Actually, the number is endless when you consider players like Amos Zeroue to SD to wherever he is now. I'm finding it is the younger fans like JSP, TK and yourself that want to ride that horse into the ground. It's us older ranchers that want to take the load off the stud and keep him around to admire and use for spot duty like short yardage and goalline situations. VD is an idiot and has his own vendetta against LJ So discount what VD says. LJ is making a fool out of VD.

This too is a good point.

Man, is it me or am I sounding like the "Taste great! - Less filling!" commercial.

Mecca
11-04-2005, 02:46 AM
Give me the damn ball! :deevee:
I wanna play! :deevee:
I'm better than Priest, but you won't give me a chance! :deevee:

Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

Respect. We're seemingly going through a transition period. We have a lot of older players, yes. They've paid their dues and deserve respect. Not a 'get out the way oldtimer' attitude. We will have our year. It may not be this year. There is a thing called patience. Now is the time for the younger players to pay dues while the older players are getting their respect.

I'm not that much older than the 'younger generation', but I can already see how much everything is so rush rush with everyone. Everyone wants everything right now.

Obviously you don't know the nature of the NFL. A 30 year old player in the NFL, especially at the RB position is an old man. It's not about respect, it's not about loyalty, it's about doing what's best for this team to win games. The NFL especially that position is a young mans game.

There's also no such thing as "paying your dues" in the NFL. Once you get to the NFL level especially if you're a first round pick, you're expected to produce right away.

In this game, you can't get attached to players, they get old they decline the team has to move on. I'm not going to sit here and be overly sentimental toward a back who's 32 years old because of what he has done in the past. The bottom line is winning and if the younger back is the better player at this point then it's time to make the change.

Other teams have walked away from better players than Priest Holmes when moving on. Everyone loves Priest Holmes around here, does that mean he should be on the team till he wants to retire? It's about the best interest of the team and winning games. It's not about catering to older players because they've been here so long and done this in the past, so we don't want to hurt their feelings.

greg63
11-04-2005, 02:46 AM
Andrew Carnegie disagrees...
:)
Well, he was a much wiser man than I.

luv
11-04-2005, 02:49 AM
Obviously you don't know the nature of the NFL. A 30 year old player in the NFL, especially at the RB position is an old man. It's not about respect, it's not about loyalty, it's about doing what's best for this team to win games. The NFL especially that position is a young mans game.

There's also no such thing as "paying your dues" in the NFL. Once you get to the NFL level especially if you're a first round pick, you're expected to produce right away.

In this game, you can't get attached to players, they get old they decline the team has to move on. I'm not going to sit here and be overly sentimental toward a back who's 32 years old because of what he has done in the past. The bottom line is winning and if the younger back is the better player at this point then it's time to make the change.

Other teams have walked away from better players than Priest Holmes when moving on. Everyone loves Priest Holmes around here, does that mean he should be on the team till he wants to retire? It's about the best interest of the team and winning games. It's not about catering to older players because they've been here so long and done this in the past, so we don't want to hurt their feelings.
Nope. I've never played in the NFL. When did you?

greg63
11-04-2005, 02:57 AM
Obviously you don't know the nature of the NFL. A 30 year old player in the NFL, especially at the RB position is an old man. It's not about respect, it's not about loyalty, it's about doing what's best for this team to win games. The NFL especially that position is a young mans game.

There's also no such thing as "paying your dues" in the NFL. Once you get to the NFL level especially if you're a first round pick, you're expected to produce right away.

In this game, you can't get attached to players, they get old they decline the team has to move on. I'm not going to sit here and be overly sentimental toward a back who's 32 years old because of what he has done in the past. The bottom line is winning and if the younger back is the better player at this point then it's time to make the change.

Other teams have walked away from better players than Priest Holmes when moving on. Everyone loves Priest Holmes around here, does that mean he should be on the team till he wants to retire? It's about the best interest of the team and winning games. It's not about catering to older players because they've been here so long and done this in the past, so we don't want to hurt their feelings.
True, football is a game of "What have you done for me lately". However, I also do not discount loyalty or respect especially toward players who have had to wait even longer than LJ to earn it. But you are right in that professional football is all about the here and now, winning and getting to the "next level" - not about feelings. Unless I read luv's post incorrectly I really didn't get the feeling that she was making a case about "hurt feelings". JMO.

greg63
11-04-2005, 03:01 AM
OOOO! 4am! Gotta try to get some sleep. Nite all!

luv
11-04-2005, 03:01 AM
True, football is a game of "What have you done for me lately". However, I also do not discount loyalty or respect especially toward players who have had to wait even longer than LJ to earn it. But you are right in that professional football is all about the here and now, winning and getting to the "next level" - not about feelings. Unless I read luv's post incorrectly I really didn't get the feeling that she was making a case about "hurt feelings". JMO.
He's right. I don't know much about the dealings of the NFL. I happen to be a believer that LJ should play. I also happen to be opposed to bellyaching and whining. He's in the NFL. Playing with the big boys. They're wearing big boy undies, while he seems to still be pissing in his diapers.

Fruit Ninja
11-04-2005, 04:28 AM
NFL football is a buisness first to the players. So as a Fan i am going to go that same route. I love Priest wish he could play forever. The present and future of the KC running back is LJ. Play LJ now. or Ronnie Cruz going to be handling the rock soon when LJ feels he is bieng disrespcted.

greg63
11-04-2005, 04:53 AM
NFL football is a buisness first to the players. So as a Fan i am going to go that same route. I love Priest wish he could play forever. The present and future of the KC running back is LJ. Play LJ now. or Ronnie Cruz going to be handling the rock soon when LJ feels he is bieng disrespcted.

Not to disagree, but respect is earned even if one has to wait in order to earn it. I don't disagree that LJ should get more reps, but I think complaining about it to the media brings down the moral of the team. If it is going to be all about the good of the "team" then I think reservation is in order. But, I guess the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Mecca
11-04-2005, 04:55 AM
I think Dick Vermiel does enough to bring down the morale every week. When he talks about how much better than us, every team we play is. Or when he complains about having a tough schedule...

greg63
11-04-2005, 05:05 AM
I think Dick Vermiel does enough to bring down the morale every week. When he talks about how much better than us, every team we play is. Or when he complains about having a tough schedule...

I'm not in a position to hear DV every week so I'll take your word for it. This fact, however, does not change how I feel regarding the way LJ has handled the situation. I like the young man; I think he should play more. I, also, think he should grow up a little. JMO.

penchief
11-04-2005, 05:17 AM
I think Dick Vermiel does enough to bring down the morale every week. When he talks about how much better than us, every team we play is. Or when he complains about having a tough schedule...

Or when he says no matter how much better than the other guy you do you just aint gonna start.

Anyong Bluth
11-04-2005, 07:06 AM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/players/jordan_black.jpg

I'm sorry I f*cked up our O, and caused this debate. :drool:

CupidStunt
11-04-2005, 07:12 AM
thats life with dicky

Yep.

We as fans can only hope that once this tool has gone, so will the Chiefs' blind committments/loyalty to certain players.

LJ deserves a chance. He hasn't received that, and that's sad.

Extra Point
11-04-2005, 07:19 AM
Funny, Carl Peterson is looking like Jack Steadman did, years ago. Time to clean house in the locker room, Lamar, before the fans clean house in the stands.

There ought to be at least four players leaving with their dignity after this year. Otherwise, we will be sharing indignity with the Raidas in our division.

stevieray
11-04-2005, 07:20 AM
This board assumes they aren't going to make the playoffs, so Priest becomes the scapegoat.

ROFL

Preist doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, while LJ does.

ROFL

acasas4
11-04-2005, 07:56 AM
Give me the damn ball! :deevee:
I wanna play! :deevee:
I'm better than Priest, but you won't give me a chance! :deevee:

Would you like some cheese to go with that whine?

Respect. We're seemingly going through a transition period. We have a lot of older players, yes. They've paid their dues and deserve respect. Not a 'get out the way oldtimer' attitude. We will have our year. It may not be this year. There is a thing called patience. Now is the time for the younger players to pay dues while the older players are getting their respect.

I'm not that much older than the 'younger generation', but I can already see how much everything is so rush rush with everyone. Everyone wants everything right now.
Exactly. I'm not saying LJ isn't a good back, I'm just tired of his bitchy no class attitude.

wolfpack0735
11-04-2005, 08:02 AM
LJ had to have known he was screwed from the day he was drafted. as long as holmes was healthy he wasnt going to get in much. from 5 yard line to 5yard line i want johnson but he cant seem to find the endzone like holmes.johnson will start next year and maybe more this year. but this whining $ucks. big baby, hard to feel sorry for someone making millions of dollars for playing a game a few years. :deevee:

dtebbe
11-04-2005, 08:16 AM
Larry I've got two words for you:

Franchise Tag


ROFL

DT

Raiderhader
11-04-2005, 09:28 AM
Hey, brother, with all due respect, that is just so much mumbo jumbo. No better at all than TK or JSP. Just more verbose. Were you aware that SF cut Joe Montana loose while knowing full well he had a couple of good years left? The Chiefs kinda proved that whether you believe it or not. And, this kind of stuff has been going on in the NFL for at least 50 years. Just because you haven't witnessed it doesn't mean it isn't so. Because it is a well established fact that fading stars finish their careers with other teams. I watched Unitas implode and go to the Rams . OJ too, I think.. Actually, the number is endless when you consider players like Amos Zeroue to SD to wherever he is now. I'm finding it is the younger fans like JSP, TK and yourself that want to ride that horse into the ground. It's us older ranchers that want to take the load off the stud and keep him around to admire and use for spot duty like short yardage and goalline situations. VD is an idiot and has his own vendetta against LJ So discount what VD says. LJ is making a fool out of VD.


Joe Montana is actually a perfect example of why we should continue to let Priest start this year. Why let that experience, leadership, selflessness, and heart be reduced to a back up role before it is necessary? He can still produce, he has been producing, and I suspect he will continue to produce. LJ can get the starting job next year, but right now this is still Priest Holmes' team, he is the engine that makes it go.

Actually, this is better than the Montana/Young deal, it is a lot easier to utilize two RBs than it is two QBs. We do not have to worry about losing LJ any time soon due to his contract and the fact that Carl will not hesitate to slap the tag on him. If Priest isn't getting the job done against a team then you put LJ in and let him try, but Priest gets first shot this season, next year reverse the rolls. With the exception of the whinning from LJ and his fanbase, this is actually an ideal situation for this team. Now if we can just get the coaching staff to utilize it in the right way, well be rolling.

htismaqe
11-04-2005, 10:45 AM
The ideal situation for this team would be for DV and CP to retire simultaneously.

As it is, that will never happen. Instead, we'll be treated to both Priest and LJ just long enough for both of them to leave, and once again we as Chiefs fans will be left with nothing...

penchief
11-04-2005, 12:26 PM
This board assumes they aren't going to make the playoffs, so Priest becomes the scapegoat.

ROFL

Preist doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, while LJ does.

ROFL

That's funny. I see it as exactly the opposite. This thread started out as an LJ bashing thread. It's Priest that gets the benefit of the doubt. And to a certain degree it is deserved. But from LJ's perspective and the perspective of those who want to see the best players play............

When it comes to the Chiefs, I want the Parcells attitude about winning football games and not the Vermiel attitude about wine, love, and life. I save that for the DC forum.

stevieray
11-04-2005, 02:11 PM
That's funny. I see it as exactly the opposite. This thread started out as an LJ bashing thread. It's Priest that gets the benefit of the doubt. And to a certain degree it is deserved. But from LJ's perspective and the perspective of those who want to see the best players play............

When it comes to the Chiefs, I want the Parcells attitude about winning football games and not the Vermiel attitude about wine, love, and life. I save that for the DC forum.

I think you'd make a great Cowboy fan.

penchief
11-04-2005, 05:01 PM
I think you'd make a great Cowboy fan.

I hate the cowboys. I just want a coach that doesn't care about personal relationships more than he does winning. I want someone who would be an objective evaluator of talent and who would be willing utilize his talent accordingly without the soap-opera bullshit and with no excuses.

penchief
11-04-2005, 06:04 PM
Even so, Johnson said he didn’t think a big game Sunday as the sole featured back would force the Chiefs to play him more.

“I doubt it,” he said. “You know Dick Vermeil, and I know Dick Vermeil. That ain’t going to happen.

“I can’t force this organization to do anything. I’ve tried that before. I tried that last year, and it got me the reputation that I’m the bad seed of the organization. So I’m not even going to try that route. I’m going to play it out, and whatever teams that want me — there are teams out there that don’t have good rushers — there might be an opportunity that opens up for me.

“There’s not anything I’m going to expect or anything I’m not going to expect.”

It turned out Johnson had an accurate grasp of what the Chiefs are thinking. Vermeil said that nothing Johnson did against the Raiders would affect the running-back situation.

“Priest Holmes is our starting running back,” Vermeil said. “I wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Larry Johnson had a great game if he did play, because I’ve seen it before. But Priest Holmes is our starter, and they know it and we know it."

This pretty much sums up what is so screwed up about this situation and why LJ has every right to feel angry.

It appears that Vermeil is saying that it wouldn't matter if LJ gains 500 yards on 25 carries, scores 8 touchdowns, injures several defensive players in the process, runs over, through, around, and beyond anybody in a Raider uniform he will have done nothing to earn the starting running back position.

Anybody.......and I mean anybody would feel negative about a coach that takes that attitude. It's not fair, plain and simple. And this is where I take issue with Priest, as well. Does he feel the same as Vermeil? If so, what does that say about him? It bothers me that he seems content to be the recipient of Vermeil's unobjective approach to the situation.

penchief
11-05-2005, 01:54 AM
This pretty much sums up what is so screwed up about this situation and why LJ has every right to feel angry.

It appears that Vermeil is saying that it wouldn't matter if LJ gains 500 yards on 25 carries, scores 8 touchdowns, injures several defensive players in the process, runs over, through, around, and beyond anybody in a Raider uniform he will have done nothing to earn the starting running back position.

Anybody.......and I mean anybody would feel negative about a coach that takes that attitude. It's not fair, plain and simple. And this is where I take issue with Priest, as well. Does he feel the same as Vermeil? If so, what does that say about him? It bothers me that he seems content to be the recipient of Vermeil's unobjective approach to the situation.

Talk about taking away someone's motivation to do well. What could be more discouraging than hearing your head coach tell the world it doesn't matter how great you play it won't make a bit of difference?

I'm beginning to wonder if Vermeil would rather see Johnson fail. This coaching staff has done about everything one could do to break a young player's morale and sooner or later they're probably going to succeed.

Mecca
11-05-2005, 06:03 AM
This pretty much sums up what is so screwed up about this situation and why LJ has every right to feel angry.

It appears that Vermeil is saying that it wouldn't matter if LJ gains 500 yards on 25 carries, scores 8 touchdowns, injures several defensive players in the process, runs over, through, around, and beyond anybody in a Raider uniform he will have done nothing to earn the starting running back position.

Anybody.......and I mean anybody would feel negative about a coach that takes that attitude. It's not fair, plain and simple. And this is where I take issue with Priest, as well. Does he feel the same as Vermeil? If so, what does that say about him? It bothers me that he seems content to be the recipient of Vermeil's unobjective approach to the situation.

It's one thing to be loyal to players, it's another to be loyal to an absolute absurd level. Vermiel has reached the absord level of loyalty you can see it with several players. It's a problem with this team at the current time.....