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View Full Version : Is there a potential HC out there who would bring us both Offense and Defense?


Logical
11-02-2005, 10:44 PM
At the same time.

Sort of tired of the swinging pendulum!

Coach
11-02-2005, 10:46 PM
Hmm... tough call. I honestly can't think of anyone on the top of my head that would qualify. :shrug:

KCChiefsMan
11-02-2005, 10:47 PM
hmmmm, Jim Mora Jr and Marvin Lewis are the only 2 I can think of

KCChiefsMan
11-02-2005, 10:47 PM
hmmmm, Jim Mora Jr and Marvin Lewis are the only 2 I can think of


but too bad those 2 aren't available

Count Alex's Losses
11-02-2005, 10:49 PM
Steve Mariucci.

gcbroncos
11-02-2005, 10:50 PM
I say get Mike Ditka....that idea may just be crazy enough to work!

By the way...I want to introduce myself to your board...the board won't let me start a thread (I guess I'm too new)

I have been reading many Chiefs boards and this one is the best.....easily

I won't post much..but every now and then I may...

I think you guys have a strong team and despite your loss to S.D....I think you guys are still CLEARLY in the hunt...

As a Bronco fan...I'm still scared of you guys...

Hope to have good debates with you all...I'm not a trash talker or name caller....I just like to debate a little sometimes...

I'm gcver2ver3 on Orangemane

KCChiefsMan
11-02-2005, 10:52 PM
I have been reading many Chiefs boards and this one is the best.....easily




obviously you haven't heard of www.nepachiefs.com

KIDDING!!!

Logical
11-02-2005, 10:54 PM
I say get Mike Ditka....that idea may just be crazy enough to work!

By the way...I want to introduce myself to your board...the board won't let me start a thread (I guess I'm too new)

I have been reading many Chiefs boards and this one is the best.....easily

I won't post much..but every now and then I may...

I think you guys have a strong team and despite your loss to S.D....I think you guys are still CLEARLY in the hunt...

As a Bronco fan...I'm still scared of you guys...

Hope to have good debates with you all...I'm not a trash talker or name caller....I just like to debate a little sometimes...

I'm gcver2ver3 on OrangemaneWelcome to the BB.

kcjayhawks5
11-02-2005, 10:55 PM
of course there is. Isn't Greg Robinson gonna be free after this season?

milkman
11-02-2005, 10:55 PM
obviously you haven't heard of www.nepachiefs.com

KIDDING!!!

That joke never gets old. :rolleyes:

tk13
11-02-2005, 10:59 PM
That's a good question. With the way the league is now and how complicated everything is, I guess pretty much all coaches specialize one side of the ball. So I doubt it... unless you hire a special teams coach who knows how to bring good offensive and defensive coaches into the mix and let them do their job. But then again, that's kinda what DV is, he was the first special teams coach.

milkman
11-02-2005, 11:00 PM
It's a crap shoot, really.

There's no way of knowing the answer to that question.
All you can do is hire the person who seems best qualified and hope.

Or, as a fan, pimp the guys you think can get the job done, and hope they prove you right when they get the chance.

Count Alex's Losses
11-02-2005, 11:01 PM
I should back the truck up. Mariucci's defenses suck more often than not.

tk13
11-02-2005, 11:06 PM
I should back the truck up. Mariucci's defenses suck more often than not.
Maybe it'd be better if he didn't draft 512 wide receivers in the first round.

Count Alex's Losses
11-02-2005, 11:09 PM
Maybe it'd be better if he didn't draft 512 wide receivers in the first round.

Sucked in SF too for the most part.

I still like him.

Tribal Warfare
11-02-2005, 11:21 PM
Eric Mangini Defensive co-ordinator of New England might

BigChiefFan
11-02-2005, 11:43 PM
It's already been said but Jeff Fisher's teams seem to do well in both categories.

Logical
11-03-2005, 01:23 AM
It's already been said but Jeff Fisher's teams seem to do well in both categories.Wow I disagree, they are Marty like more often than not, last thing I want to see here.

Rausch
11-03-2005, 01:30 AM
Wow I disagree, they are Marty like more often than not, last thing I want to see here.

They can't be, they've been to a super bowl...

Saggysack
11-03-2005, 01:41 AM
Those that think Jeff Fisher is a great coach are somewhat delusional. The guy has had only 4 winning seasons out of 11. Better make that 12, doesn't look to good this year either.

I've never understood the hype this guy gets. So what that he has coached a SB. So has Bobby Ross and Barry Switzer. Hell, Switzer even won his SB.

I hope and pray that Jeff Fisher never makes it to KC.

Amnorix
11-03-2005, 08:21 AM
Eric Mangini Defensive co-ordinator of New England might

Suffice to say that Mangini hasn't exactly impressed the world with his abilities as a DC as of yet. In his first year on the job, the Pats defense is quite simply horrendous. A big part of that is injuries, of course, but...

Also note that Mangini has made his bones pretty much exclusively on the defensive side of teh ball. Not that he isn't VERY bright and quite young and he most likely has a very bright future ahead of him, but I don't think there will be too many people sniffing around to hand him a HC position unless the defense improves dramatically.

RedThat
11-03-2005, 08:26 AM
Herman Edwards:D

Amnorix
11-03-2005, 08:26 AM
Coaches inevitably come up through the ranks on one side of the ball or the other. What surprises me, however, is how aggressively some head coaches don't want to be involved on the other side of the ball. It's one thing to delegate authority, and another to keep your head completely stuck in the sand and pretend you're just a "super coordinator". Martz is the biggest example of this, but there are others. I must say that it seems to me that DV falls into this category as well.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 08:39 AM
I'd think an oil company executive would be a wise choice.

RedThat
11-03-2005, 08:39 AM
Coaches inevitably come up through the ranks on one side of the ball or the other. What surprises me, however, is how aggressively some head coaches don't want to be involved on the other side of the ball. It's one thing to delegate authority, and another to keep your head completely stuck in the sand and pretend you're just a "super coordinator". Martz is the biggest example of this, but there are others. I must say that it seems to me that DV falls into this category as well.

Oh for sure man. Dick Vermeil is the most one dimensional coach Ive seen here in KC. But I do place a large majority of the blame on Carl Peterson for not bringing in a good defensive staff, and good defensive players. Dick Vermeil is an "offensive minded" football coach. He even said it himself, "Im not a defensive football coach". He said this after Greg Robinson resigned with us. He wanted to help Greg but he couldnt because he doesnt know defense. Marty is pretty close though as being up there for one dimensional. But I have to give San Diego management credit,they got him pretty good offense staff, and players. Well, at least he has a GM that could go get him talent on both sides of the ball. Something Carl cant do. Carl is VERY imcompetent as a general manager. I still think Marty is a defensive minded football coach.

MOhillbilly
11-03-2005, 08:41 AM
Wow I disagree, they are Marty like more often than not, last thing I want to see here.

yeah never mind theyve been 100 times more competative than KC and missed a ring by acouple yards.

BigChiefFan
11-03-2005, 08:49 AM
Wow I disagree, they are Marty like more often than not, last thing I want to see here.He's been to a Super Bowl. Enough said in that comparison.

Mark M
11-03-2005, 08:50 AM
At one time I wanted Stoops (sp?) from Oklahoma, but not after seeing his team this year. He's done a horrendous job with the young guys on that team.

To be honest, I have no clue of who should be the next coach. Fisher, as others have pointed out, has more losing seasons then winning, Herm Edwards hasn't eactly impressed in NY, and various assistants mentioned (Mang in NE) haven't been impressive either.

All I know is that it best not be Saunders. The guy has shown an inability to make adjustments, makes dumbass call after dumbass call, and just doesn't have the well-rounded mindset we need.

Big-name college coaches like Carroll at USC aren't going anywhere (he sucked in the NFL as well), and others just haven't shown the consistency (the aforementioned Stoops, Willingham, et al).

I say the Chiefs just have the members here be a coach-by-committee ...

after all, we usually have all the answers anyway.

MM
~~:D

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 08:58 AM
I like Mike Trgovac, DC of the Panthers. Part of the Parcells coaching tree AND the Coryell coaching tree.

Mecca
11-03-2005, 09:00 AM
At one time I wanted Stoops (sp?) from Oklahoma, but not after seeing his team this year. He's done a horrendous job with the young guys on that team.

To be honest, I have no clue of who should be the next coach. Fisher, as others have pointed out, has more losing seasons then winning, Herm Edwards hasn't eactly impressed in NY, and various assistants mentioned (Mang in NE) haven't been impressive either.

All I know is that it best not be Saunders. The guy has shown an inability to make adjustments, makes dumbass call after dumbass call, and just doesn't have the well-rounded mindset we need.

Big-name college coaches like Carroll at USC aren't going anywhere (he sucked in the NFL as well), and others just haven't shown the consistency (the aforementioned Stoops, Willingham, et al).

I say the Chiefs just have the members here be a coach-by-committee ...

after all, we usually have all the answers anyway.

MM
~~:D

Where does this perception that Pete Carroll is a shitty NFL coach come from? I'm pretty sure his career record is above 500. The only thing you can even point to is that New England team that was 6-1 that absolutely quit on him, that I really have no reason for why that happened.

Maybe Amnorix can enlighten me since he's a Pats fan, I figure he would have some info on that.

Frazod
11-03-2005, 09:02 AM
What is this "building more than half a team" concept of which of you speak? :spock:

Mark M
11-03-2005, 09:05 AM
Where does this perception that Pete Carroll is a shitty NFL coach come from? I'm pretty sure his career record is above 500. The only thing you can even point to is that New England team that was 6-1 that absolutely quit on him, that I really have no reason for why that happened.

Maybe Amnorix can enlighten me since he's a Pats fan, I figure he would have some info on that.

Oh, I dunno ... maybe because his team quit on him?

Sorry, but a good coach doesn't have that happen.

His record is just above .500 in the NFL, BTW:

http://www.sportspool.com/football/coaches/Pete_Carroll.php

MM
~~:)

greg63
11-03-2005, 09:07 AM
At the same time.

Sort of tired of the swinging pendulum!

YUP!

Mecca
11-03-2005, 09:08 AM
Oh, I dunno ... maybe because his team quit on him?

Sorry, but a good coach doesn't have that happen.

His record is just above .500 in the NFL, BTW:

http://www.sportspool.com/football/coaches/Pete_Carroll.php

MM
~~:)

Well. I'd rather Pete Carroll stay where he's at anyway.......

Mark M
11-03-2005, 09:10 AM
What is this "building more than half a team" concept of which of you speak? :spock:

Good question.

Maybe Vlad stopped taking his meds again or something ...

MM
~~:D

Amnorix
11-03-2005, 09:12 AM
Big-name college coaches like Carroll at USC aren't going anywhere (he sucked in the NFL as well), and others just haven't shown the consistency (the aforementioned Stoops, Willingham, et al).

I've said it before and I'll say it again, in my VERY strong opinion, Carroll has not been given a good shot at the NFL level.

Jets -- one year. NOBODY gets fired after one year. I think he went like 8-8 after a great first ahlf and terrible second half after the Marino fake spike. Fired so they could bring in the immortal Rich Kotite, who took the team to new lows.

Pats -- 3 years, overall winning record, getting gradually worse each year (10-6, 9-7, 8-8). BUT (1) he was undermined by that idiot Bobby Grier at the front office, and was not allowed to run his own team, and (2) the Pats drafts during those three years were UNBELIEVABLY terrible.

Suffice to say that the current Pats (2005) have a handful of players drafted during the Parcells era that pre-dated Carroll's (Willie McGinest, Adam Vinatieri, Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi), and around the NFL other good players were drafted during that era by the Pats as well (Law, Bledsoe, Milloy come to mind).

There are precisely ZERO Patriots on the 2005 roster that were drafted in the 1997-1999 drafts, and the only player on another team from that era that comes to mind is Damien Woody (Lions). THAT's how bad those drafts were.

Given a good NFL situation, I'm convinced Carroll could be a successful head coach.

Mark M
11-03-2005, 09:16 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, in my VERY strong opinion, Carroll has not been given a good shot at the NFL level.

Jets -- one year. NOBODY gets fired after one year. I think he went like 8-8 after a great first ahlf and terrible second half after the Marino fake spike. Fired so they could bring in the immortal Rich Kotite, who took the team to new lows.

Pats -- 3 years, overall winning record, getting gradually worse each year (10-6, 9-7, 8-8). BUT (1) he was undermined by that idiot Bobby Grier at the front office, and was not allowed to run his own team, and (2) the Pats drafts during those three years were UNBELIEVABLY terrible.

Suffice to say that the current Pats (2005) have a handful of players drafted during the Parcells era that pre-dated Carroll's (Willie McGinest, Adam Vinatieri, Troy Brown, Tedy Bruschi), and around the NFL other good players were drafted during that era by the Pats as well (Law, Bledsoe, Milloy come to mind).

There are precisely ZERO Patriots on the 2005 roster that were drafted in the 1997-1999 drafts, and the only player on another team from that era that comes to mind is Damien Woody (Lions). THAT's how bad those drafts were.

Given a good NFL situation, I'm convinced Carroll could be a successful head coach.

I will definitely defer to your knowledge.

That being said, however, the guy just seems so much more suited to the college game -- he's got a ton of energy which college kids love, but wears thin on NFL players. He's also an outstanding recruiter.

If he stays on at USC, he could very well go down as one of the best NCAA Div. 1 coaches of all time.

MM
~~:)

Amnorix
11-03-2005, 09:17 AM
Where does this perception that Pete Carroll is a shitty NFL coach come from? I'm pretty sure his career record is above 500. The only thing you can even point to is that New England team that was 6-1 that absolutely quit on him, that I really have no reason for why that happened.

Maybe Amnorix can enlighten me since he's a Pats fan, I figure he would have some info on that.

His HC record as far as I can remember:

1. Jets in like '95 or something, he had a 6-2 team or soemthing. Then they were winning vs. the 'phins, but Marino did the famous "fake spike throw to Clayton (or whoever) for a TD" that resulted in a win. The season completely tanked after that. I think that's the season you're referring to.

2. Pats in '97, his first year. He inherited a team that went 11-5 and to the SB (losing to GB) under Parcells. We went 10-6 and won the AFC East. We played a heartbreaking, VERY CLOSE game against the Steelers, losing 7-6 on one stinking play where Kordell Stewart turned the corner and went in for a TD.

3. Pats in '98 went 9-7. Don't remember if they made the playoffs.

4. Pats in '99 went 8-8, no playoffs. Carroll fired, BB hired, and Bobby Grier was fired the next year.

I do recall that his teams seemed to fade durign the second half of the year when he was with the Patriots as well. Not sure why. Nothing AS bad as the Jets collapse, however, that I recall.

Amnorix
11-03-2005, 09:19 AM
I agree that Carroll is the PERFECT coach for a big time college program. I'm not sure that he's as well suited for the NFL as for college. But, my point is, he's no Steve Spurrier. I think he'd succeed at the NFL level, but whether he'd win one or more SBs... :shrug:

Second, he would need, demand and get full control of football operations from an NFL team in order to make the jump. Like Saban in Miami. With Carl running the show in KC, that ain't gonna happen.

Mark M
11-03-2005, 09:23 AM
Second, he would need, demand and get full control of football operations from an NFL team in order to make the jump. Like Saban in Miami. With Carl running the show in KC, that ain't gonna happen.

I honestly believe Carl will be gone after this year -- he just signed the contract extension to give the illusion of some kind of stability for FAs (since DV is gone after this year).

I just think he realizes his time here is done. Lamar has turned most of the team over to Clark and the other kids, and I imagine they'll want to hire "their" guy, rather than hanging on to someone who's not gotten the team to the Super Bowl.

I have no proof of that, of course ... just channelling Kevin Kietzman and yanking stuff out of my ass.


MM
~~:D

siberian khatru
11-03-2005, 09:33 AM
His HC record as far as I can remember:

1. Jets in like '95 or something, he had a 6-2 team or soemthing. Then they were winning vs. the 'phins, but Marino did the famous "fake spike throw to Clayton (or whoever) for a TD" that resulted in a win. The season completely tanked after that. I think that's the season you're referring to.

2. Pats in '97, his first year. He inherited a team that went 11-5 and to the SB (losing to GB) under Parcells. We went 10-6 and won the AFC East. We played a heartbreaking, VERY CLOSE game against the Steelers, losing 7-6 on one stinking play where Kordell Stewart turned the corner and went in for a TD.

3. Pats in '98 went 9-7. Don't remember if they made the playoffs.

4. Pats in '99 went 8-8, no playoffs. Carroll fired, BB hired, and Bobby Grier was fired the next year.

I do recall that his teams seemed to fade durign the second half of the year when he was with the Patriots as well. Not sure why. Nothing AS bad as the Jets collapse, however, that I recall.


I've been researching Carroll and I believe you're exactly right on this. Oh, remember in 97, the Pats won their first-round playoff game before losing to the Steelers. In 98, they lost in the first round @ Jax.

Carroll's NFL record is very similar to Belichick's before BB went to NE. Not saying Carroll's the next BB by any means, just saying beware of judging him so harshly.

Sully
11-03-2005, 10:26 AM
Has anyone mentioned mini-Ditka?

Hoover
11-03-2005, 10:51 AM
Well,this is my crazy idea.

I would go after Brian Belick (sp? HC from the Ravens). There are 2 reasons I like him.

1. He was OC for the Vikes and put up huge numbers.
2. He won the Super Bowl with a Running game and a Defense, he understands their importance.

I think the Ravens may be looking for a change anyway. Its my hope we can find a HC who will keep Gunther at DC.

Skip Towne
11-03-2005, 11:30 AM
yeah never mind theyve been 100 times more competative than KC and missed a ring by acouple yards.
And have beaten us 3 straight. (so far)

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-03-2005, 11:35 AM
I say get Mike Ditka....that idea may just be crazy enough to work!

By the way...I want to introduce myself to your board...the board won't let me start a thread (I guess I'm too new)

I have been reading many Chiefs boards and this one is the best.....easily

I won't post much..but every now and then I may...

I think you guys have a strong team and despite your loss to S.D....I think you guys are still CLEARLY in the hunt...

As a Bronco fan...I'm still scared of you guys...

Hope to have good debates with you all...I'm not a trash talker or name caller....I just like to debate a little sometimes...

I'm gcver2ver3 on Orangemane
Welcome aboard. Your team is.... gulp....... better than ours...

:banghead:

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-03-2005, 11:37 AM
Well,this is my crazy idea.

I would go after Brian Belick (sp? HC from the Ravens). There are 2 reasons I like him.

1. He was OC for the Vikes and put up huge numbers.
2. He won the Super Bowl with a Running game and a Defense, he understands their importance.

I think the Ravens may be looking for a change anyway. Its my hope we can find a HC who will keep Gunther at DC.
I like Billick. I was hoping he'd come to KC when he went to Baltimore.

cdcox
11-03-2005, 11:38 AM
Well,this is my crazy idea.

I would go after Brian Belick (sp? HC from the Ravens). There are 2 reasons I like him.

1. He was OC for the Vikes and put up huge numbers.
2. He won the Super Bowl with a Running game and a Defense, he understands their importance.

I think the Ravens may be looking for a change anyway. Its my hope we can find a HC who will keep Gunther at DC.

I was going to suggest the same.

Mr. Laz
11-03-2005, 11:39 AM
to dream the impossible dream...

Dr. Facebook Fever
11-03-2005, 11:48 AM
I'm sure AS is going to be our next head coach and we'll all be just as underwhelmed as when Gunther was first hired.

Mr. Laz
11-03-2005, 11:59 AM
I'm sure AS is going to be our next head coach and we'll all be just as underwhelmed as when Gunther was first hired.
i don't know about that


carl peterson = staunch republican

al saunders = not republican(don't know what he is, but not republican is usually enough for the staunchy guys)




i don't think they get along

Mecca
11-03-2005, 12:14 PM
Well,this is my crazy idea.

I would go after Brian Belick (sp? HC from the Ravens). There are 2 reasons I like him.

1. He was OC for the Vikes and put up huge numbers.
2. He won the Super Bowl with a Running game and a Defense, he understands their importance.

I think the Ravens may be looking for a change anyway. Its my hope we can find a HC who will keep Gunther at DC.

Atleast Billick has shown that he'll go with what the strength of his team is to win.

htismaqe
11-03-2005, 01:09 PM
Its my hope we can find a HC who will keep Gunther at DC.

Why?

Mecca
11-03-2005, 01:24 PM
Alot of people in this town and on this board like Gunther far more than they really should. He's part of the problem and should be shuffled off with the rest of the coaches.

gcbroncos
11-03-2005, 02:54 PM
Welcome aboard. Your team is.... gulp....... better than ours...

:banghead:




LOL.....I wish I could agree with you...but until I see us beat you guys in Arrowhead...I feel we are basically evenly matched

ArrowheadHawk
11-03-2005, 03:04 PM
And have beaten us 3 straight. (so far)
ummm.............excuse me last time we met.


W 49 - 38 12/13/04 at Tennessee Titans

kcirnamffoh
11-03-2005, 03:49 PM
I most certainly would be happy with Gunther taking the helm again. This time around, I think, he better brush up on his media/coach speak. After listening to Vermeil for 4+ years, I myself now have more respect for how a coach presents himself to the public. Vermeil is very polite, non-combative and presentable. Gunther would need to come off more like that so as to better endear himself to fans and foes.

I would welcome Jeff Fisher. This is probably his last year with that franchise. Gunther and him have a recent history and I would hope Gunther would also be willing to remain as a cooridinator under him. But maybe not.

Bottom line, though, I believe Cunningham deserves another shot at head coach.

the Talking Can
11-03-2005, 04:00 PM
Bottom line, though, I believe Cunningham deserves another shot at head coach.

ROFL

but seriously, welcome to the planet...johnny, you said?

Bowser
11-03-2005, 05:15 PM
ROFL

but seriously, welcome to the planet...johnny, you said?

ROFL

kcirnamffoh
11-03-2005, 05:17 PM
but seriously, welcome to the planet...johnny, you said?

I think you've asked me this before. No...I...am...not...Johnny.

Now, maybe you could inject some intelligence (instead of smilies) into our little conversation and tell me why you don't think Gunther Cunningham should hold a head coaching position.

Tribal Warfare
11-03-2005, 06:02 PM
I like Mike Trgovac, DC of the Panthers. Part of the Parcells coaching tree AND the Coryell coaching tree.


He's another good choice :thumb:

milkman
11-03-2005, 09:25 PM
Why?

Ditto.