View Full Version : DeLay's former aide admits to bait-and-switch tactic... calls Christians "wackos"
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/11/03/abramoff/
No one here ever talks about the 3 leg of the Republican corruption scandals going on right now: Abramoff/Scanlon. Here's a gem of a quote from Scanlon (a former DeLay aid) talking about their bait-and-switch political strategy.
Weren't the Republican's around here outraged at this kinda of thing happening to their candidates/issues recently?
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/11/03/abramoff/
"The wackos get their information through the Christian right, Christian radio, mail, the internet and telephone trees," Scanlon wrote in the memo, which was read into the public record at a hearing of the Senate Indian Affairs Committee. "Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them." The brilliance of this strategy was twofold: Not only would most voters not know about an initiative to protect Coushatta gambling revenues, but religious "wackos" could be tricked into supporting gambling at the Coushatta casino even as they thought they were opposing it.
Btw, what exactly is a telephone-tree?
the Talking Can
11-03-2005, 07:13 PM
"Simply put, we want to bring out the wackos to vote against something and make sure the rest of the public lets the whole thing slip past them."
damn, Republicanism in a sentence.
Boozer
11-03-2005, 07:58 PM
A telephone tree is an information network where one person calls three or four people with news, updates, whatever. Those people call an additional three or four people each, etc. Good way of passing along information, say, to parents of kids on a school trip. Apparently, also a good way of passing along unsubstantiated rumors and fear-mongering. Think chain-emails over the telephone.
Sully
11-03-2005, 08:01 PM
If anyone saw "Trading Spouses" last night, they'd have no problem calling Christians whackos.
(of course, I'd also say that after watching Jerry Johnston)
If anyone saw "Trading Spouses" last night, they'd have no problem calling Christians whackos.
(of course, I'd also say that after watching Jerry Johnston)
Watch yourself...
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2681739
Ugly Duck
11-03-2005, 11:09 PM
damn, Republicanism in a sentence.Don't laugh... it worked in the last presidential election. It worked so good that, in spite of the abject failure of this worst administration in recent US history, some wackies still speculate that Kerry would have been "worse." And they'll fall for the same garbage next time as well.
Taco John
11-04-2005, 02:42 AM
That explains why Ted Nugent keeps calling me.
Saggysack
11-04-2005, 05:39 AM
Watch yourself...
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2681739
:LOL:
Husband: I'm glad you're home
God Warrior: GET OUT OF MY HOUSE! IN JESUS NAME I PRAY! GET OUT!
Wow, the hatred of Christians knows no bounds in this forum. :shake:
If anyone saw "Trading Spouses" last night, they'd have no problem calling Christians whackos.
(of course, I'd also say that after watching Jerry Johnston)
If only people derived their worldviews from 3rd rate sh#tty television. Then the world would be a much better place.
Wow, the hatred of Christians knows no bounds in this forum. :shake:
Christians are the one religious group it's good to be bigoted toward. More liberalism style points.
Don't laugh... it worked in the last presidential election. It worked so good that, in spite of the abject failure of this worst administration in recent US history, some wackies still speculate that Kerry would have been "worse." And they'll fall for the same garbage next time as well.
If the tactics are so transparent and rudimentary, what does it say about those who've been utterly dominated by it in recent years?
jiveturkey
11-04-2005, 09:51 AM
Christians are the one religious group it's good to be bigoted toward. More liberalism style points.It's only because we don't like them trying to govern our private lives. If they would mind their own business there wouldn't be much of an issue but they're hell bent (get it :) ) on gaining power.
Christians are the one religious group it's good to be bigoted toward. More liberalism style points.
Yes, unfortunately. I know this wasn't really what the thread topic was about, but I notice this a lot in this thread and everywhere else around here. I realize that it's 'en vogue' to bash Christians these days. I only hope and pray that on the day that their body breathes no more life, that they have changed their hearts and minds and accepted Jesus. All the laughing and making fun of Christians will not endear them to their creator when they are judged. If they choose to ignore what they have been shown, I hope they remember these words when they are in suffering.
And yes, I know that they'll just call me a Christian wacko for saying this. I just don't really care anymore.
jiveturkey
11-04-2005, 09:52 AM
Yes, unfortunately. I know this wasn't really what the thread topic was about, but I notice this a lot in this thread and everywhere else around here. I realize that it's 'en vogue' to bash Christians these days. I only hope and pray that on the day that their body breathes no more life, that they have changed their hearts and minds and accepted Jesus. All the laughing and making fun of Christians will not endear them to their creator when they are judged. If they choose to ignore what they have been shown, I hope they remember these words when they are in suffering.
And yes, I know that they'll just call me a Christian wacko for saying this. I just don't really care anymore.Thanks for being condesending.
That should help sway people.
Adept Havelock
11-04-2005, 10:54 AM
Statements like this must be especially galling coming from a GOP staffer for Delay, considering that's the party whose agenda the Radical Religious Right (which certainly does not represent all Christians ) has hijacked.
Sounds like some of the Repubs might want their party back.
Baby Lee
11-04-2005, 10:59 AM
It's only because we don't like them trying to govern our private lives. If they would mind their own business there wouldn't be much of an issue but they're hell bent (get it :) ) on gaining power.
And they run the banks, . . and Hollywoo. . . no wait, wrong bigoted rant.
patteeu
11-04-2005, 11:07 AM
It's weird, I'm not religious and I don't want anyone controlling my life, but I feel no fear of the so-called radical right. What am I missing?
Adept Havelock
11-04-2005, 11:08 AM
And they run the banks, . . and Hollywoo. . . no wait, wrong bigoted rant.
Good point there. It's wrong to include all Christians in a statement like that. That statement should have been solely directed at the Christian Dominionists, and the nj's in the Christian Exodus movement (the nj's that decided to have lots of evangelicals move to South Carolina and take over the state government). They are the only Christians I am aware of who actually do claim to want "no law but god's law", and work towards that end.
Ummm...patteau? It's the Religious Right that can be blamed for most of the "blue laws" in our nations history, for starters. Both sides have plenty to be ashamed of when it comes to legislating it's way into our lives. To pretend otherwise is disingenious.
jiveturkey
11-04-2005, 11:09 AM
It's weird, I'm not religious and I don't want anyone controlling my life, but I feel no fear of the so-called radical right. What am I missing?You're not missing anything. You just agree with their politics so their agenda fits.
Am I wrong?
jiveturkey
11-04-2005, 11:11 AM
Good point there. It's wrong to include all Christians in a statement like that. That statement should have been solely directed at the Christian Dominionists, and the nj's in the Christian Exodus movement (the nj's that decided to have lots of evangelicals move to South Carolina and take over the state government). They are the only Christians I am aware of who actually do claim to want "no law but god's law", and work towards that end.Control of Banks and Hollywood are of no interest here IMO.
Wanting partial control or total control is unacceptable and I don't care which religon is trying to pull it off.
patteeu
11-04-2005, 11:29 AM
You're not missing anything. You just agree with their politics so their agenda fits.
Am I wrong?
Yes, I think you are. I agree with their politics in some areas and I oppose them in others. Here are some of the areas where I think I differ from most religious conservatives (which is the group I think we are talking about in this thread):
I'm agnostic on abortion although I favor overturning Roe v Wade because I think it was wrongly decided and I think the issue rightly belongs in the state legislatures.
I'm pro gay marriage although I'd be against a court decision requiring it as a matter of equal protection. This is another issue that I think should be decided in the state legislatures, but unlike abortion, I have a position and would favor adoption of some kind of gay marriage legislation.
I'm pro drug legalization.
I'm against sodomy laws.
I'm pro legalization of prostitution.
I'm pro free speech rights for pornographers and flag burners.
I'm against constitutional amendments against abortion, gay marriage, or flag burning.
I'm against the president's Faith Based Initiatives progam (mainly because I think government money corrupts the institutions who receive it).
jiveturkey
11-04-2005, 11:35 AM
Yes, I think you are. I agree with their politics in some areas and I oppose them in others. Here are some of the areas where I think I differ from most religious conservatives (which is the group I think we are talking about in this thread):
I'm agnostic on abortion although I favor overturning Roe v Wade because I think it was wrongly decided and I think the issue rightly belongs in the state legislatures.
I'm pro gay marriage although I'd be against a court decision requiring it as a matter of equal protection. This is another issue that I think should be decided in the state legislatures, but unlike abortion, I have a position and would favor adoption of some kind of gay marriage legislation.
I'm pro drug legalization.
I'm against sodomy laws.
I'm pro legalization of prostitution.
I'm pro free speech rights for pornographers and flag burners.
I'm against constitutional amendments against abortion, gay marriage, or flag burning.
I'm against the president's Faith Based Initiatives progam (mainly because I think government money corrupts the institutions who receive it).
How in the hell do we wind up on different sides of a discussion? I agree with you on all of these except overturning Roe v Wade but I'm cool with it becoming a states right issue.
Weird???
You do know that our beliefs are in stark contrast to those of the religous world and they would love to keep what they have in place now and reverse the issues that are not already on their side.
unlurking
11-04-2005, 11:59 AM
I was just thinking the same damn thing?!?
How the hell can I be agreeing with patteeu?!?!
Hmmm, maybe we should discuss issues more and politicians/partisanship less?
patteeu
11-04-2005, 12:03 PM
How in the hell do we wind up on different sides of a discussion? I agree with you on all of these except overturning Roe v Wade but I'm cool with it becoming a states right issue.
Weird???
You do know that our beliefs are in stark contrast to those of the religous world and they would love to keep what they have in place now and reverse the issues that are not already on their side.
LOL, yes it's weird how that works out. Vlad has posted long lists of his positions and we agree on the vast majority of it, but I find reasons to disagree with almost everything he posts lately.
I guess I'm just not worried that the majority of religious conservatives really want to control me. They have the right to disagree with me on matters of public policy (e.g. gay marriage) but I have confidence that life will go on regardless of which side wins those policy debates. What scares me more than religious conservatives is the liberal view of the judiciary where social reform comes via judicial fiat for which there is very little political recourse. That and matters of economics are what make me side with conservatives more often than not. Oh, and I shouldn't forget that I also tend to side with conservatives on matters of foreign policy and the GWoT.
patteeu
11-04-2005, 12:05 PM
I was just thinking the same damn thing?!?
How the hell can I be agreeing with patteeu?!?!
Hmmm, maybe we should discuss issues more and politicians/partisanship less?
That's why I laughed at your post the other day when you said I was scaring you. Because IIRC, you tend toward libertarianism and I suspected that we are much closer than you believed at the time.
unlurking
11-04-2005, 12:12 PM
That's why I laughed at your post the other day when you said I was scaring you. Because IIRC, you tend toward libertarianism and I suspected that we are much closer than you believed at the time.
I think I'm just having trouble getting past the whole pro/anti Bush angle that seems to be the topic of choice here.
And yes, I do lean towards libertarian, which many call RWNJ, but honestly, I hate Bush as much as LWNJs.
Looking for that perfect government that will just leave well enough alone with my life and most everyone elses.
Sully
11-04-2005, 12:29 PM
Yes, unfortunately. I know this wasn't really what the thread topic was about, but I notice this a lot in this thread and everywhere else around here. I realize that it's 'en vogue' to bash Christians these days. I only hope and pray that on the day that their body breathes no more life, that they have changed their hearts and minds and accepted Jesus. All the laughing and making fun of Christians will not endear them to their creator when they are judged. If they choose to ignore what they have been shown, I hope they remember these words when they are in suffering.
And yes, I know that they'll just call me a Christian wacko for saying this. I just don't really care anymore.
If you aren't secure enough in your faith to take a little "bashing" then you aren't strong enough in it.
Guess what... my fiance is a minister. You wanna take a guess on what the majority of our lives, conversations and actions revolve around? You wanna take a guess at how Christianity impacts my life on an every minute basis?
That being said. There are a TON of Christians that put the wacko face forward. The face of non-acceptance, non-forgiveness, condescension and non-compassion. I have no problem "bashing" these "Christians" who rest on the literalism of the Bible without actually hearing the story, as if the Bible is nothing more to them than a list of rules to be used as weapons agains the rest of the world. Sadly, because of folks like this woman on the crappy show (I agree, but this one was worth watching for the comedy, although it made the fiance cry), this is the public's idea of what and who Christians are...
Pat,
I am amazed, after reading a lot of your posts and how I disagree how often, how spot-on the beliefs you mentioned above coincide with mine. Admittedly, I have only been learning about politics for about 14 months now, and it's hard for me to learn not to pigeon-hole those I disagree with all into one bunch. It has put a strain on a couple of friendships, even. But thanks for showing that, though we disagree, there can always be found some common ground.
patteeu
11-04-2005, 12:34 PM
Pat,
I am amazed, after reading a lot of your posts and how I disagree how often, how spot-on the beliefs you mentioned above coincide with mine. Admittedly, I have only been learning about politics for about 14 months now, and it's hard for me to learn not to pigeon-hole those I disagree with all into one bunch. It has put a strain on a couple of friendships, even. But thanks for showing that, though we disagree, there can always be found some common ground.
:thumb:
PunkinDrublic
11-04-2005, 12:56 PM
Christians are the one religious group it's good to be bigoted toward. More liberalism style points.
Neocons like Tom Delay and their ilk aren't real christians.
Saggysack
11-04-2005, 01:55 PM
Wow, the hatred of Christians knows no bounds in this forum. :shake:
Huh?
Did you see that woman? She is out her fuggin mind.
Huh?
Did you see that woman? She is out her fuggin mind.
The woman is insane, and it has nothing to do with being a Christian.
Saggysack
11-04-2005, 02:04 PM
The woman is insane, and it has nothing to do with being a Christian.
Yep, doesn't have a damn thing to do with Christianity.
If you aren't secure enough in your faith to take a little "bashing" then you aren't strong enough in it.
Guess what... my fiance is a minister. You wanna take a guess on what the majority of our lives, conversations and actions revolve around? You wanna take a guess at how Christianity impacts my life on an every minute basis?
That being said. There are a TON of Christians that put the wacko face forward. The face of non-acceptance, non-forgiveness, condescension and non-compassion. I have no problem "bashing" these "Christians" who rest on the literalism of the Bible without actually hearing the story, as if the Bible is nothing more to them than a list of rules to be used as weapons agains the rest of the world. Sadly, because of folks like this woman on the crappy show (I agree, but this one was worth watching for the comedy, although it made the fiance cry), this is the public's idea of what and who Christians are...
Wacko face? Why, because they believe strongly enough in something that they stand up for it without fear of reprocussions? I don't call that being wacko? Heck, even denise isn't truly wacko.......errrrr....at least I think. ROFL
And frankly, I think non-acceptance of a practice or behavior that goes against the teachings of the Bible doesn't equal non-forgiveness, condescension, or non-compassion. Unless, of course, you're talking about someone like Fred Phelps. Someone with whom I disagree with the methods and message of hatred. But just as wrong as Phelps is for being a false prophet(and I use the term prophet loosely), so is ignoring things that are clearly against God's will such as homosexuality, pornography, prositution, etc.
Look, I'm not trying to judge anyone. But telling someone that what they're doing is against the teachings in the Bible is not judging. Unfortunately, people seem to mistake that for judging. They automatically think it's judging or being 'condescending'. Hey, I'm not perfect, either. I sin, you sin, we all do. And we all need to know what is right and wrong. If we didn't, everyone would feel free to rape, murder, steal, etc. without remorse of fear of punishment.
Anyway, in my original post, I was speaking generally about the perception of Christians around here and in this modern era. And if you thought I was talking to you, specifically, let me me tell that I really didn't understand your reference to Trading Spouses or Jerry Johnston because I've never watched Trading Spouses and I don't know who is Jerry Johnston.
Huh?
Did you see that woman? She is out her fuggin mind.
No, I didn't see that woman. I just saw the posts in this thread about Christian wackos, God warriors, etc. Maybe I misunderstood, but I took that as another Christian bashfest.
Sully
11-04-2005, 02:43 PM
And frankly, I think non-acceptance of a practice or behavior that goes against the teachings of the Bible doesn't equal non-forgiveness, condescension, or non-compassion. Unless, of course, you're talking about someone like Fred Phelps. Someone with whom I disagree with the methods and message of hatred. But just as wrong as Phelps is for being a false prophet(and I use the term prophet loosely), so is ignoring things that are clearly against God's will such as homosexuality, pornography, prositution, etc.
Um... the Bible is also pretty strongly anti-war and anti-capitalism...
But I bet you aren't nearly as against those things, huh?
No, I didn't see that woman. I just saw the posts in this thread about Christian wackos, God warriors, etc. Maybe I misunderstood, but I took that as another Christian bashfest.
You over-reacted. It helps to read what you are reacting to before choosing to react.
In this case, it helps to follow the link I provided and watch the 'god warrior' herself.
Watch yourself...
http://www.ifilm.com/ifilmdetail/2681739
You over-reacted. It helps to read what you are reacting to before choosing to react.
In this case, it helps to follow the link I provided and watch the 'god warrior' herself.
I actually was going to check that link, but I have to be careful here at work. Our internet monitoring software is pretty strict. And I was more reacting to a lot of this anti Christian sentiment around here that has been going on for awhile. At least that's been my perception.
Um... the Bible is also pretty strongly anti-war and anti-capitalism...
But I bet you aren't nearly as against those things, huh?
The ani-war part could be debated, but I don't care a whole lot for capitalism, either. Putting money as a top priority in life (which is what most strong believers of capitalism do, IMO) is wrong.
Sully
11-04-2005, 03:45 PM
Putting money as a top priority in life (which is what most strong believers of capitalism do, IMO) is wrong.
At least we can agree on that...
I actually was going to check that link, but I have to be careful here at work. Our internet monitoring software is pretty strict. And I was more reacting to a lot of this anti Christian sentiment around here that has been going on for awhile. At least that's been my perception.
Ok, well today was probably the wrong day and this thread was probably the wrong thread and claiming liberals (plural enmasse) believe Christians are wackos is probably the wrong way to phrase it.
Other than that, we probably agree on this subject.
The ani-war part could be debated, but I don't care a whole lot for capitalism, either. Putting money as a top priority in life (which is what most strong believers of capitalism do, IMO) is wrong.
That's the big Republican hoax that's been peratrated on Christians in this nation in recent decades. They bait-and-switched them on issues important to Christians.
The bible, Christianity and Jesus would be very supportive of many of the policies in the liberal perspective. But Republicans have done of fine job of playing on people's emotions with issues like homosexuality, abortion, etc. and basically tricked Christians into voting for people who support policies that go against their religion.
Sully
11-04-2005, 05:53 PM
That's the big Republican hoax that's been peratrated on Christians in this nation in recent decades. They bait-and-switched them on issues important to Christians.
The bible, Christianity and Jesus would be very supportive of many of the policies in the liberal perspective. But Republicans have done of fine job of playing on people's emotions with issues like homosexuality, abortion, etc. and basically tricked Christians into voting for people who support policies that go against their religion.
There is a book just out about this that I want to buy, called "How the Republicans Stole Christmas" or something like that...I think it's by Bill Press.
It has some uneven reviews, but I'd still like to get into it.
Another interesting one is :" God's Politics : Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It" by Jim Wallis... sounds good as well.
Old Codger
11-08-2005, 12:49 AM
God bless all you a**holes.
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