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View Full Version : Grading the lineman - Welbourn will be an all-pro


B_Ambuehl
11-10-2005, 11:35 AM
Once Shields retires. Don't worry about replacing Shields cause Welbourn is a freak in the running game and will step right in there and take over. I finished my weekly ritual of going through the tape and focusing in on the trenches and here's what I noticed:

- Welbourn destroys people in the running game and has amazingly quick feet. He's the prototypical Solari offensive lineman. He struggles a bit in pass protection from the right tackle position but that's to be expected with him playing guard all preseason. His pass protection is enough to make me worry a bit but nothing like the other side.

- Black is costing this offense dearly and it will be difficult to beat anybody with him in there. He gave up 2 sacks, a strip, and at least 3 pressures last Sunday and was beaten many more times then that - he's beaten at least 50% of the time. With him in there you can't take 7 step drops and get the ball down the field so a large part of the offense is eliminated. You also can't run to the left very effectively because he's very inconsistent and usually doesn't seal off the outside effectively. I expect Buffalo to put 8 men up in the box and force the pass. That should lead to at least one turnover, multiple hits, and who knows what else.

- The front 3 of Waters, Wiegmann, and Shields is dominating in the running game, particularly Waters. They are very strong in pass protection 90% of the time. Where they sometimes struggle a bit is in areas any other offensive lineman sometimes struggles with...defensive twists, stunts and delayed blitzes - these can be difficult to deal with and that is compounded by them often having to help out the tackles.

- From where I sit, if CP were smart he would've spent some of the 4 million in cap room prior to November 7 to lock up Waters and Welbourn long term.

- Trent Green's performance this year with the situation at tackle is severely under-rated. I've gone through every game this year and on a week to week basis this is the worst pass protection from an offensive football team I've seen all year long from any teams other then Houston and maybe Miami. Green is the best in the NFL at avoiding pressure while in the pocket and moving up and around the pocket itself. The fact that the offense is still #6 overall and is still able to put points on the board is a miracle.

- I hate to come down so hard on a person but the one negative constant in every game is Black. Hopefully he'll improve and make me eat my words, but right now this ain't cutting it. Even in the games with Roaf back, Black was over playing RT and it's the same old shit different day, only from the opposite side of the formation.

Bottom line is most coaches and teams would be struggling to score 10 points a game with the situation the way it is right now. I think the situation for the running game in the future looks good, but don't expect too much right now with Roaf out of there.

sedated
11-10-2005, 11:42 AM
Notre Dame fans said the same thing about black when we drafted him.

Has the talent, but is always underacheiving.

He sucks

Count Alex's Losses
11-10-2005, 11:49 AM
So much for the myth of TrINT.

StcChief
11-10-2005, 11:58 AM
Agreed.

Black gets burned,beat, heavy pressured on LT/RT doesn't matter.

I hope he picks it up, improves his game for Trent, LJ sake. We need the outside run and protection for 7 steps badly.

Warrior5
11-10-2005, 12:02 PM
We need the outside run and protection for 7 steps badly.

Absolutely...our receivers need the 7 steps to get separation.

Count Alex's Losses
11-10-2005, 12:02 PM
Give Black some credit. The O-line gave Trent enough time to take us downfield on the game winning drive.

chiefsfan1963
11-10-2005, 12:11 PM
Nice read Ambuehl. Thanks.

NewChief
11-10-2005, 12:14 PM
So much for the myth of TrINT.

Oh no. Certain people will make selective use of stats to show how Trent has been reduced to an average/mediocre QB by the lack of success of his line. It's great to be able to use stats when they prove your point and ignore them when they don't. BTW, Jake for MVP!

Seek
11-10-2005, 12:16 PM
If you guys have a chance to see the final play again. Watch Shields destroy Warren Sapp. Wiegmann has Washington going the other direction, and Shields just pushed Sapp into Washington taking them both out.

The you can see Welbourn get a very quick step on the DE. He quickly sealed him to the outside. the DE tries to bull rush Welbourne but by then T-rich has helped out a little and Welbourne just pushed the DE straight back.

shaneo69
11-10-2005, 12:25 PM
Ambuehl,
Did you notice that every time the left side of the Raider D-line did a stunt, the guy looping inside was left unblocked and Welbourn and Shields both blocked the outside guy? That's where I saw a lot of the pressure coming from on Sunday.

MOhillbilly
11-10-2005, 12:34 PM
Give Black some credit. The O-line gave Trent enough time to take us downfield on the game winning drive.

a dump pass for almost half the field?

mmm-k

Hoover
11-10-2005, 12:39 PM
Heck, I think we should see if Black can play gaurd, and keep Welbourn at RT if we can't get an updrade during the offseason.

I agree about Welbourn, as a gaurd he is a monster.

Death Nebula
11-10-2005, 12:50 PM
where does Sampson figure into all this? Especially long term?

jidar
11-10-2005, 12:52 PM
I noticed the same thing. I keyed in on black while watching live, because obviously puting him there was a cause for concern, but yeah he was getting destroyed.

MOhillbilly
11-10-2005, 01:00 PM
where does Sampson figure into all this? Especially long term?


Sampson has to work on his feet before he figures into anything.

visions of Mandarich.

Mr. Laz
11-10-2005, 01:14 PM
Sampson has to work on his feet before he figures into anything.

visions of Mandarich.
i'm beginning to get the feeling that Sampson not being in there has more to do with performance than health. :(

Sully
11-10-2005, 01:16 PM
a dump pass for almost half the field?

mmm-k


The dump pass was available because the O-Line blocked the down linemen+a blitzer without help from LJ.

Reaper16
11-10-2005, 01:17 PM
i'm beginning to get the feeling that Sampson not being in there has more to do with performance than health. :(
Well, yeah. His performance has suffered due to his health issues. He looked good in MN, he's not going to forget how to play like that.

B_Ambuehl
11-10-2005, 01:23 PM
Sampson is probably a better RT then Welbourn is a right tackle. He's more consistent in pass protection - not quite as dominant in the running game but a solid factor nonetheless.

Guys like Ross Verba were and have been available to come in at LT and play and with 4 million in cap room and guys like Will Svitek (despite my sig), Parquet, and Khari Long on the 53 man roster, i'm kind've pissed off about the situation at left tackle right now. With the coaching staff selling out for the year in every other area why not bring in someone who can block somebody so your offense can do what it's supposed to? Maybe when Trent Green gets knocked out for the year somebody will step up and call the organization out for poor judgement.


Ambuehl,
Did you notice that every time the left side of the Raider D-line did a stunt, the guy looping inside was left unblocked and Welbourn and Shields both blocked the outside guy? That's where I saw a lot of the pressure coming from on Sunday.

Yep, I noticed it from both sides and it's been a problem all year. The interior lineman is supposed to stay put and pick up the outside rusher as he comes inside, but they don't seem to trust the tackles who aren't doing a very good job of earning that trust. It's excusable for Welbourn as that was his first start at RT this year.

sedated
11-10-2005, 01:34 PM
Sampson has looked good at RT. Next year, we'll have little drop off if Roaf stays.
LT - Roaf
LG - Waters
C - Weigman
RG - Welborn
RT - Sampson
with Black as top back-up to every position.

MOhillbilly
11-10-2005, 01:39 PM
Sampson has looked good at RT.

ive thought hes played like shit and his footwork was horrid.

Chiefnj
11-10-2005, 01:55 PM
You don't lose a Roaf or a Shields and not take a step back. They are hall of fame caliber players. It will suck to lose them. Hell, KC can't lose a John Tait at RT and recover from it.

Mr. Laz
11-10-2005, 02:06 PM
Well, yeah. His performance has suffered due to his health issues. He looked good in MN, he's not going to forget how to play like that.
i hope so ... we need him badly

Brock
11-10-2005, 02:10 PM
You don't lose a Roaf or a Shields and not take a step back. They are hall of fame caliber players. It will suck to lose them. Hell, KC can't lose a John Tait at RT and recover from it.

I won't disagree that losing Roaf and Shields would suck, but KC had the number one offense with or without Tait.

Tribal Warfare
11-10-2005, 02:19 PM
from FA I want OG Chad Hutchinson, Welbourne looked very inconsistent. In the first half he was getting beaten badly in passing protection. He's a solid run blocker, but not a sledgehammer to an opposing defender.

depending where KC falls in the draft, OT seems the most logical choice specifically Marcus McNeill or Jonathon Scott.

Cave Johnson
11-10-2005, 02:59 PM
As for locking Welbourne up, I think he's under a long term contract.

Rain Man
11-10-2005, 05:01 PM
Does anyone else wonder if Welbourn is going to get smaller over time?

NaptownChief
11-10-2005, 05:05 PM
ive thought hes played like shit and his footwork was horrid.

Well you both have me beat cause I blinked and barely noticed that he played.

Cave Johnson
11-10-2005, 06:38 PM
Does anyone else wonder if Welbourn is going to get smaller over time?

Like the incredible shrinking man? In no time he'll be the size of the 6" lineman in Madden 2006.

B_Ambuehl
11-10-2005, 08:16 PM
As for locking Welbourne up, I think he's under a long term contract.

He is but his unhappiness with that contract is what got him out of Philly. I don't see why he still wouldn't be unhappy about it but given that he's not really a starter at this time he doesn't have a leg to stand on....Once he becomes a regular starter next year I expect him to be a dominant force at the guard position and he'll have the leverage with regard to wanting more money....kind've like Waters does right now.

tiptap
11-10-2005, 08:43 PM
I won't disagree that losing Roaf and Shields would suck, but KC had the number one offense with or without Tait.

It takes time to catch up with offenses. When Tait was on the team this offense ran to the left, center and right equally. This made that offense overwhelming. When we lost Tait, last year, we started listing to port. Now with two All Pros on the left side you still get production but you LOSE the diversity and unpredictability in your offense. Teams began to scheme against our tendency to run to the left. It becomes mano y mano and the finesse and surprise part of the offense is lost.
This is what we are seeing this year. People can prepare to take on our tendencies. And with Roaf out we don't have the All Pro at the either end of our offensive line. This is what I see and I had hope we would see good RT play return. I said in preseason that if we got good RT play we could be a great offense again. But we haven't seen that play and we have been a good offense. With Roaf out .... well.

Halfcan
11-10-2005, 09:08 PM
Nice thread-well written and to the point- I give this one two thumbs up.

FringeNC
11-10-2005, 09:15 PM
Whether or not I agree with you on all counts, don't know. But love posts like this that actually have substance. Great post.

B_Ambuehl
11-15-2005, 01:17 PM
Guys like Ross Verba were and have been available to come in at LT and play and with 4 million in cap room and guys like Will Svitek (despite my sig), Parquet, and Khari Long on the 53 man roster, i'm kind've pissed off about the situation at left tackle right now. With the coaching staff selling out for the year in every other area why not bring in someone who can block somebody so your offense can do what it's supposed to? Maybe when Trent Green gets knocked out for the year somebody will step up and call the organization out for poor judgement.

Thi is old but it seems that FINALLY a lot of other people are starting to notice this. "Coach can Dunn play left tackle??" hahah A better question would've been...."coach why did you'll think Black could play left tackle and why didn't you bring someone else in?"

sedated
11-15-2005, 01:38 PM
Any NFL coach would have relied on a 5th round pick to start at RT and backup LT.