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View Full Version : LJ is not running behind the same O-Line Priest had the luxury of running behind!


chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 10:36 AM
It makes LJ running capabilities all the more impressive to me. Whatever LJ's stats will be for the rest of the season, he's playing with a whole different dynamic than Priest. Not only is our O-Line no way as strong as the last 3 seasons, but our opponents can key on our running game more than ever given that TG and our receivers have not been anywhere the threat they have in the past. Hopefully our passing game will improve and our strength of O-Line improve so we can give LJ every chance to excel as our #1. Even if this doesn't happen I see LJ still producing quite well which will clearly be a statement to all who held him back and those fans who were blinded by their adoration of Priest.

NewChief
11-11-2005, 10:40 AM
Pretty much what Trent said yesterday in his PC.

DMAC
11-11-2005, 10:52 AM
isnt it sad that we lost the best back in chiefs history and we are quietly excited?

chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 10:56 AM
Pretty much what Trent said yesterday in his PC.

That is interesting. Thanks I didn't know this.

sedated
11-11-2005, 10:59 AM
isnt it sad that we lost the best back in chiefs history and we are quietly excited?

It's not sad. Everyone loses a step eventually.

Dallas was glad to get rid of Emmitt because he was old and slow.

Doesn't mean they didn't love and appreciate him.

MOhillbilly
11-11-2005, 11:02 AM
isnt it sad that we lost the best back in chiefs history and we are quietly excited?

'best' is relative

Calcountry
11-11-2005, 11:19 AM
Sundays game will be played in the present, not 2003.

milkman
11-11-2005, 11:20 AM
I think your post has some merit, 63.

However I think we also need to look at the differences in Priest's and LJ's running style.

Priest was more of a patient elusive type runner, who could run with some power, making him more effective on sweeps behind what was the strength of the line, Roaf.

LJ is more of a North-South type runner that will have more success running up the middle, which is now the strength of our line with Willie out.

Straight, No Chaser
11-11-2005, 11:25 AM
... Hopefully our passing game will improve and our strength of O-Line improve so we can give LJ every chance to excel as our #1. Even if this doesn't happen I see LJ still producing quite well which will clearly be a statement to all who held him back and those fans who were blinded by their adoration of Priest.

A Larry Johnson Apologist emerges. If that's your rationalization then start rationalizing for all the 'backs that don't have records. Many 'backs were forced to run behind mediocre OL's. Don't start that crap now.

I actually thought it would take longer than 48 hrs...

I, for one, was not blinded by anything about Priest Holmes. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's either/or with these two. And, why so quick to throw Holmes under the bus?


--->

Simplex3
11-11-2005, 11:35 AM
A Larry Johnson Apologist emerges. If that's your rationalization then start rationalizing for all the 'backs that don't have records. Many 'backs were forced to run behind mediocre OL's. Don't start that crap now.

I actually thought it would take longer than 48 hrs...
EXACTLY what I was thinking. :clap:

Cormac
11-11-2005, 12:25 PM
A Larry Johnson Apologist emerges. If that's your rationalization then start rationalizing for all the 'backs that don't have records. Many 'backs were forced to run behind mediocre OL's. Don't start that crap now.

I actually thought it would take longer than 48 hrs...

I, for one, was not blinded by anything about Priest Holmes. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's either/or with these two. And, why so quick to throw Holmes under the bus?


--->

:clap:

chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 12:27 PM
A Larry Johnson Apologist emerges. If that's your rationalization then start rationalizing for all the 'backs that don't have records. Many 'backs were forced to run behind mediocre OL's. Don't start that crap now.

I actually thought it would take longer than 48 hrs...

I, for one, was not blinded by anything about Priest Holmes. I can't for the life of me figure out why it's either/or with these two. And, why so quick to throw Holmes under the bus?


--->
No one is throwing Priest under the bus! Way over reacting dude! I'm not apologizing for LJ's future performance either, just making a point that clearly can't be refuted. Does not take away any of Priest's accomplishments or LJ's. Time will tell on LJ, but if he continues to perform with the current O, he will only get better when his supporting cast gets better for years to come. If this happens, and this is a Big "IF" then he will surpass Priest as our best RB ever!

penchief
11-11-2005, 12:29 PM
I don't know. I kinda' feel like LJ's running might invigorate the line a little bit. When you have a running back that likes to take it to the defense I'd think the Oline would dig that. I'm all for having some more dominating line play like we had on the "dive."

I think LJ's gonna do just fine. He'll benefit from great line play and he'll also make a lot of his own yardage.

Idahored
11-11-2005, 12:35 PM
I'm sorry, but I call BS. Holmes was running every bit as well behind this depleted o-line and I believe he would have continued to run well behind this line. If Larry is a good back, and I think he is, he will run well behind it also.

Personally, I think both are great backs and as such I think Larry will do well this year. The problem with Larry is he has way too much TO in him and that worries me a great deal. He may be able to run as well as Holmes, but he is not half the man that Holmes is at this point in his life.

I'm hoping for his sake and the sake of the Chiefs that he becomes "the man" in both regards.

Simplex3
11-11-2005, 12:41 PM
The problem with Larry is he has way too much TO in him and that worries me a great deal.
L Jo?

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 02:08 PM
I'm sorry, but I call BS. Holmes was running every bit as well behind this depleted o-line and I believe he would have continued to run well behind this line. If Larry is a good back, and I think he is, he will run well behind it also.

Personally, I think both are great backs and as such I think Larry will do well this year. The problem with Larry is he has way too much TO in him and that worries me a great deal. He may be able to run as well as Holmes, but he is not half the man that Holmes is at this point in his life.

I'm hoping for his sake and the sake of the Chiefs that he becomes "the man" in both regards.

LJ has TO in him?

Give me a ****ing break.

Skip Towne
11-11-2005, 02:26 PM
I'm sorry, but I call BS. Holmes was running every bit as well behind this depleted o-line and I believe he would have continued to run well behind this line. If Larry is a good back, and I think he is, he will run well behind it also.

Personally, I think both are great backs and as such I think Larry will do well this year. The problem with Larry is he has way too much TO in him and that worries me a great deal. He may be able to run as well as Holmes, but he is not half the man that Holmes is at this point in his life.

I'm hoping for his sake and the sake of the Chiefs that he becomes "the man" in both regards.
Priest absolutely WAS NOT running just as well behind this line this year. His ypc had dipped to 3.8 ypc from his career average of 4.6. Where are you getting your info?

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 02:34 PM
Priest absolutely WAS NOT running just as well behind this line this year. His ypc had dipped to 3.8 ypc from his career average of 4.6. Where are you getting your info?

I'm trying to figure out the 2nd part, where we are told that Larry is like TO and is half the man that Priest is...

I'm trying to remember the last time Larry challenged his teammates to a fight in the locker room.

And I'm struggling to remember the last time Larry answered "So what do you need to be ready to play this season?" by saying:

"Get paid."

Mr. Krab
11-11-2005, 05:10 PM
Priest absolutely WAS NOT running just as well behind this line this year. His ypc had dipped to 3.8 ypc from his career average of 4.6. Where are you getting your info?
That statement is a little unfair and somewhat inaccurate. You could say that Priest Holmes was less productive, but to say he was not running well is a bit harsh. Our offensive line's strength is between the guards now. Most of the plays called for Holmes are outside the tackles where we are struggling. While Larry Johnson gets more power plays up the middle to our strength. Johnson is also currently more of a home run threat which suits our inconsistent offense by making up for it with one big run.

Holmes
Week ATT YRD AVG DEF RK(Run)
Week 4 18 84 4.7 Eagles 19
Week 6 14 18 1.3 Redskins 21
Week 7 18 90 5.0 Dolphins 20
Week 8 14 38 2.7 Chargers 03
Tot 7/gm 119 451 3.8

Johnson
Week 6 13 53 4.1 Redskins 21
Week 7 23 93 4.0 Dolphins 20
Week 8 06 55 9.2 Chargers 03
Week 9 22 107 4.9 Raiders 17
Tot 8/gm 97 506 5.2


Larry Johnson is clearly better suited for our offense at this time but that doesn't mean he was really running better.

penchief
11-11-2005, 05:16 PM
That statement is a little unfair and somewhat inaccurate. You could say that Priest Holmes was less productive, but to say he was not running well is a bit harsh. Our offensive line's strength is between the guards now. Most of the plays called for Holmes are outside the tackles where we are struggling. While Larry Johnson gets more power plays up the middle to our strength. Johnson is also currently more of a home run threat which suits our inconsistent offense by making up for it with one big run.

Holmes
Week ATT YRD AVG DEF RK(Run)
Week 4 18 84 4.7 Eagles 19
Week 6 14 18 1.3 Redskins 21
Week 7 18 90 5.0 Dolphins 20
Week 8 14 38 2.7 Chargers 03
Tot 7/gm 119 451 3.8

Johnson
Week 6 13 53 4.1 Redskins 21
Week 7 23 93 4.0 Dolphins 20
Week 8 06 55 9.2 Chargers 03
Week 9 22 107 4.9 Raiders 17
Tot 8/gm 97 506 5.2


Larry Johnson is clearly better suited for our offense at this time but that doesn't mean he was really running better.

I won't dispute your claim but I will say that I do believe Priest was not running as hard this year as he did in past seasons. I commented on this board during one of the earlier games that I was able to watch on television that it seemed like Priest was emulating Franco Harris in that he appeared to be avoiding hits (i.e. stepping out of bounds one yard shy of the first down, etc.).

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 09:04 PM
You guys should pay attention to Neal Jones. He's a bright guy.

He says Larry Johnson has a bad attitude and will be a cancer to this team.

TRR
11-11-2005, 09:16 PM
You guys should pay attention to Neal Jones. He's a bright guy.

He says Larry Johnson has a bad attitude and will be a cancer to this team.

I'm not sure he's too far off. A bad attitude? I would say yes. A cancer? I don't know, he hasn't gotten the chance to be in the spotlight yet. There's only so many people that will pay attention to what a backup RB is saying to the media.

I am very nervous to have Larry Johnson as KC's elite RB. Not so much this season, but when Holmes retires, and LJ is the main guy. For being in the league only a short time, he's managed to get in two scuffles involving the law, p*ss off a HC and OC who are hard to p*ss off, and cry about sitting behind the best RB to ever play for the KC Chiefs.

LJ has a lot to prove. I love the way he plays on the football field, but he has a lot to prove off of it.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 09:21 PM
I'm not sure he's too far off. A bad attitude? I would say yes. A cancer? I don't know, he hasn't gotten the chance to be in the spotlight yet. There's only so many people that will pay attention to what a backup RB is saying to the media.

I am very nervous to have Larry Johnson as KC's elite RB. Not so much this season, but when Holmes retires, and LJ is the main guy. For being in the league only a short time, he's managed to get in two scuffles involving the law, p*ss off a HC and OC who are hard to p*ss off, and cry about sitting behind the best RB to ever play for the KC Chiefs.

LJ has a lot to prove. I love the way he plays on the football field, but he has a lot to prove off of it.

Pure bullshit and nothing more.

KC fans just can't stand anything that isn't a good little soldier, taking orders and not talking.

First, he's had ONE scuffle with the law. The 2nd incident was 100% fabrication.

Two, this head coach and OC have proven time and again that they're petty, play favorites, and generally act like children if it means getting their way. The treatment of Larry Johnson was no different, and completely unrelated to his behavior.

And finally, Larry Johnson NEVER cried about playing behind the best RB to ever play for the Chiefs. He was upset about playing behind DERRICK BLAYLOCK, and rightfully so. He's twice, even 3 times, the back that Blaylock is and it was obvious to anyone not named Vermeil.

The guy wants to PLAY. There's just no place for a guy with his desire on this team. After all, we need to save space for guys like Eric Hicks because they're grown up enough to deal with being 1-3.

:rolleyes:

milkman
11-11-2005, 09:22 PM
Pure bullshit and nothing more.

KC fans just can't stand anything that isn't a good little soldier, taking orders and not talking.

First, he's had ONE scuffle with the law. The 2nd incident was 100% fabrication.

Two, this head coach and OC have proven time and again that they're petty, play favorites, and generally act like children if it means getting their way. The treatment of Larry Johnson was no different, and we completely unrelated to his behavior.

And finally, Larry Johnson NEVER cried about playing behind the best RB to ever play for the Chiefs. He was upset about playing behind DERRICK BLAYLOCK, and rightfully so. He's twice, even 3 times, the back that Blaylock is and it was obvious to anyone not named Vermeil.

And Al Saunders.

Count Alex's Losses
11-11-2005, 09:22 PM
He's twice, even 3 times, the back that Blaylock is and it was obvious to anyone not named Vermeil.

Or Bob Dole.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 09:23 PM
I had to edit and add this:

The guy wants to PLAY. There's just no place for a guy with his desire on this team. After all, we need to save space for guys like Eric Hicks because they're grown up enough to deal with being 1-3.

Extra Point
11-11-2005, 09:24 PM
We know who has blocked out of the backfield for both! Props to T-Rich!!!

milkman
11-11-2005, 09:25 PM
I had to edit and add this:

The guy wants to PLAY. There's just no place for a guy with his desire on this team. After all, we need to save space for guys like Eric Hicks because they're grown up enough to deal with being 1-3.

Eric Hicks, the poster boy of the sft Dick era.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 09:25 PM
We know who has blocked out of the backfield for both! Props to T-Rich!!!

Yep. :clap:

Count Alex's Losses
11-11-2005, 09:26 PM
Speaking of Hicks, why hasn't Wilkerson taken his job?

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 09:27 PM
Speaking of Hicks, why hasn't Wilkerson taken his job?

Because Hicks is the son Dick Vermeil always wanted.

milkman
11-11-2005, 09:27 PM
Speaking of Hicks, why hasn't Wilkerson taken his job?

Like Parker said, Dick and Al play favorites.

penchief
11-11-2005, 09:28 PM
Because Hicks is the son Dick Vermeil always wanted.

Because Wilkins is content to wait his turn?

Count Alex's Losses
11-11-2005, 09:28 PM
Because Hicks is the son Dick Vermeil always wanted.

I'm not sure that I buy that. Dick didn't have much of a problem replacing McNugget.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 09:30 PM
I'm not sure that I buy that. Dick didn't have much of a problem replacing McNugget.

What?

McNugget has been a starter EVERY WEEK he's been here when he hasn't been hurt.

Count Alex's Losses
11-11-2005, 09:32 PM
What?

McNugget has been a starter EVERY WEEK he's been here when he hasn't been hurt.

Not last year. And Warfield will continue to start this year.

tk13
11-11-2005, 09:32 PM
Pure bullshit and nothing more.

KC fans just can't stand anything that isn't a good little soldier, taking orders and not talking.

First, he's had ONE scuffle with the law. The 2nd incident was 100% fabrication.

Two, this head coach and OC have proven time and again that they're petty, play favorites, and generally act like children if it means getting their way. The treatment of Larry Johnson was no different, and completely unrelated to his behavior.

And finally, Larry Johnson NEVER cried about playing behind the best RB to ever play for the Chiefs. He was upset about playing behind DERRICK BLAYLOCK, and rightfully so. He's twice, even 3 times, the back that Blaylock is and it was obvious to anyone not named Vermeil.

The guy wants to PLAY. There's just no place for a guy with his desire on this team. After all, we need to save space for guys like Eric Hicks because they're grown up enough to deal with being 1-3.

:rolleyes:
I believe that's inaccurate... he stated to the media just last week he'd like to get more carries but "you know Dick Vermeil".

There will come a day where he wants to "get paid" just like Priest did. LJ wants to be a superstar... I've got no problem with that. I've got no problem with him wanting to play. I just find it funny how some have bashed Priest the last few days for having an ego and wanting to "get paid" and this and that and this... LJ will be no different. That's how it goes.

tk13
11-11-2005, 09:34 PM
What?

McNugget has been a starter EVERY WEEK he's been here when he hasn't been hurt.
That's why we replaced him with freaking Bartee last year and had Battle lined up to be the starter this year before he got hurt in offseason workouts. It was a vicious plot by Dick Vermeil to have invisible assassins to fly out of the sky and puncture Battle's knee! To give McCleon more playing time! Yeehaw!

Count Alex's Losses
11-11-2005, 09:38 PM
That's why we replaced him with freaking Bartee last year and had Battle lined up to be the starter this year before he got hurt in offseason workouts. It was a vicious plot by Dick Vermeil to have invisible assassins to fly out of the sky and puncture Battle's knee! To give McCleon more playing time! Yeehaw!

http://static.userland.com/images/jake/DCP02580.jpg

Straight, No Chaser
11-12-2005, 02:18 AM
KC fans just can't stand anything that isn't a good little soldier, taking orders and not talking...

...And finally, Larry Johnson NEVER cried about playing behind the best RB to ever play for the Chiefs. He was upset about playing behind DERRICK BLAYLOCK, and rightfully so. He's twice, even 3 times, the back that Blaylock is and it was obvious to anyone not named Vermeil.
...

What a Crock of Sheet. You demonstrate a keen sense of myopia.

LJ made it known, in the KC media rags, about his dissatisfaction with the 2-1 rotation after the Oakland game.

LJ definately has the diapers off. Now he nees to mature. It's OK to play mean but having an attitude hurts the team chemistry. See Jim Brown.

--->

Rausch
11-12-2005, 02:23 AM
LJ wants to go out there, play his ass off, and and be the man.

If you don't like that he doesn't give a $#it, and THAT is what pisses people off.

And one more reason I like him...

ChiefFan31
11-12-2005, 05:23 AM
Its way too damn soon, to be having a thread with that title. Just my humble opinion.

Of course all the comparisons are coming, but I am just looking forward to watch LJ running the ball againt the Bills. He has got what he has wanted..now its time to shine.

Gaz
11-12-2005, 07:05 AM
Let us not attempt to re-write history, please.

Johnson did not like playing behind Blaylock. The staff said it was because of Johnsonís blocking skills. You can choose to believe them or not. I do not recall the staff ever dismissing Johnsonís rushing abilities. They did voice concerns about Greenís safety with Johnson blocking.

Johnson also did not like playing behind Holmes. And he said so. On more than one occasion. You can try to blame the media for baiting him, if you so choose, but he did not complain ONLY about Blaylock. That is false.

Personally, I would prefer that a player want the ball and I will not criticize him for saying so. That does not make him a bad little soldier as long as it does not disrupt the team chemistry. As far as I can tell from here, Johnson has not done so, even during the late unpleasantness over diapers.

xoxo~
Gaz
Bringing a bit of reality back to the discussion.

htismaqe
11-12-2005, 12:43 PM
Not last year. And Warfield will continue to start this year.

We were told that he wasn't healthy last year. Whether or not you can believe Vermeil is debatable, but the fact stands - when McCleon is known to be healthy, he starts.

htismaqe
11-12-2005, 12:44 PM
That's why we replaced him with freaking Bartee last year and had Battle lined up to be the starter this year before he got hurt in offseason workouts. It was a vicious plot by Dick Vermeil to have invisible assassins to fly out of the sky and puncture Battle's knee! To give McCleon more playing time! Yeehaw!

Circumstantial. Whoopee.

Simple fact is - when McCleon can play, he starts. Doesn't matter how or why, just that he does.

Count Alex's Losses
11-12-2005, 01:19 PM
Circumstantial. Whoopee.

Simple fact is - when McCleon can play, he starts. Doesn't matter how or why, just that he does.

BS.

McCleon will not start another game this year unless Warfield gets hurt.

TRR
11-12-2005, 08:20 PM
Pure bullshit and nothing more.

KC fans just can't stand anything that isn't a good little soldier, taking orders and not talking.

First, he's had ONE scuffle with the law. The 2nd incident was 100% fabrication.

Two, this head coach and OC have proven time and again that they're petty, play favorites, and generally act like children if it means getting their way. The treatment of Larry Johnson was no different, and completely unrelated to his behavior.

And finally, Larry Johnson NEVER cried about playing behind the best RB to ever play for the Chiefs. He was upset about playing behind DERRICK BLAYLOCK, and rightfully so. He's twice, even 3 times, the back that Blaylock is and it was obvious to anyone not named Vermeil.

The guy wants to PLAY. There's just no place for a guy with his desire on this team. After all, we need to save space for guys like Eric Hicks because they're grown up enough to deal with being 1-3.

:rolleyes:

I think you got the bullsh*t part wrong. I said two scuffles with the law. I never said he was innocent or guilty. IT FLAT OUT DOESN'T MATTER. Anytime you get accused, it's not good for the Chiefs organization.

Secondly, your wrong about the favorites part. Derrick Blaylock was in the system longer, blocked better, and is a better receiver than Johnson was at that point. The coaching staff never questioned LJ's ability to run the ball. They questioned whether LJ knew the scheme good enough to keep Green getting killed. They knew from years passed that Blaylock could get the job done in a pinch.

Third, LJ has continuously complained about sitting behind Priest Holmes. He said he goes home after every game, and is livid about the situation he has to put up with because, "he knows what he can do with the ball in his hands." Maybe so, but shut up and show us. He hasn't proven half of what Holmes has proven. LJ hates sitting behind Holmes just as much as he hated sitting behind DB.

If you define desire as taking every rant and rave to the media, telling your 70+ year old coach, "I'd like to see him say that to my face", and continually get accused of slapping woman (or holding a gun to their head), then you've pegged Larry Johnson.

The guy has an extreme amount of talent, and I cheer for him just as hard as I do/did Priest Holmes. I've said it before...I don't care what you do off the field as long as your winning games, and not creating controversy/distraction, but even you have to admit that when LJ is finally THE RB in KC, you've got to be nervous of holdouts, off the field problems, me-me-me-me attitude, etc. The guy has shown that as a backup. I'm scared to think what he can do as a so-called "star" in the NFL.

If he doesn't change his off-the-field behavior, and tone his comments down, he'll have a tragic ending to his career.

BTW, McCleon is healthy, and he will be lucky to be the 4th CB behind Surtain, Warfield, and DeWayne Washington.