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View Full Version : If Chiefs go 10-6 Vermeil should come back for at least another year.


chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 11:58 AM
Even if they don't make the playoffs, if we can go 10-6 with all the injuries DV should go it at least another year to improve on 2005. I know alot of folks here want him gone, but I'm curious if they agree with this condition. Right now I've said I like him back b/c I still think he's our best chance of being a playoff team in the future sooner.

If 10-6 doesn't do it for you what about 11-5 and a playoff game?, 2 playoff games?, getting to the AFC championship game?, Super Bowl game?, World Champion's? Thoughts?

unlurking
11-11-2005, 12:01 PM
Super Bowl berth would do it for me.

(As you can see, I don't have exhorbitantly high standards as I did not say SB win.)

;)

MOhillbilly
11-11-2005, 12:01 PM
thats a big friggin if.


i dont want him back period.

chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 12:02 PM
Super Bowl berth would do it for me.

(As you can see, I don't have exhorbitantly high standards as I did not say SB win.)

;)

So you wouldn't want him back with a playoff win? Interesting. Your tough dude. :)

Chiefs Pantalones
11-11-2005, 12:03 PM
You freakin' dipshit. DV should NOT be back after this year no matter what. 10-6? WTF? 11-5 and a playoff game? WTF? What is it with some Chiefs fans and mediocrity? Yay!!! We're always improving, but never quite there!!! Yay!!!!

Five damn years is enough of this bullshit. I'm sick and tired of losing. Sweet f#ck, what the f#ck is wrong with you?!

chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 12:05 PM
You freakin' dipshit. DV should NOT be back after this year no matter what. 10-6? WTF? 11-5 and a playoff game? WTF? What is it with some Chiefs fans and mediocrity? Yay!!! We're always improving, but never quite there!!! Yay!!!!

Five damn years is enough of this bullshit. I'm sick and tired of losing. Sweet f#ck, what the f#ck is wrong with you?!

I guess I'm a dipshit. You should know you're the smartest guy on this board. Thanks.

milkman
11-11-2005, 12:05 PM
I don't give a rat's ass if the Chiefs go to and win the SB, I want Dick gone.

HolmeZz
11-11-2005, 12:11 PM
How about me just win a Super Bowl and take all the suspense out of it.

Calcountry
11-11-2005, 12:12 PM
Even if they don't make the playoffs, if we can go 10-6 with all the injuries DV should go it at least another year to improve on 2005. I know alot of folks here want him gone, but I'm curious if they agree with this condition. Right now I've said I like him back b/c I still think he's our best chance of being a playoff team in the future sooner.

If 10-6 doesn't do it for you what about 11-5 and a playoff game?, 2 playoff games?, getting to the AFC championship game?, Super Bowl game?, World Champion's? Thoughts?nope, this is his last year win or lose. Time to win one for the coach.

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 12:21 PM
If Vermail goes 8-8 I think he should come back because he still has not had a full season without a major player being hurt or out. Like PH, RS, Shawn Barber etc. To me he is the best Coach Kansas City has had since the late Hank Stram (Rest In Peace).

B_Ambuehl
11-11-2005, 12:23 PM
THE EVOLUTION OF A COACH

1. Old coach gets fired.

2. New coach gets hired and says "we're gonna do "this" and we're gonna do "that."

3. As long as "this" and "that" is different then the old coaches "this" and "that" the fans get hyped up and say things like "I love this staff", "we're going to the superbowl baby" Rock on!" "now we have this!" Sales of season tickets pick up.

4. If he's lucky, the new coach and his team have success actually changing "this" and "that" and pick up some wins doing so.

5. Fans stay fired up. "Yeah can you believe our (offense/defense/d-line play, secondary, qb play, insert whatever you want etc.), it's so much better then it was when ____ was here."

6. Coach has some success but with each team only having so much moeny to spend there's no possible way to optimize all the possible "this" and "thats" at the same time.

7. Fans don't realize that, they want it all now.

8. Coach says "well we're doing a good job at "this" and "that" (which is entirely different then the last coaches "this's" and "thats") but we need to improve "this" and change "this". We'll continue working towards our goals.

9. Repeat #8

10. Repeat #8 again

11. Fans get tired of #8 and no that those "goals" will never be reached.

12. Season ticket sales start to decline.

13. Start over with #1.

Fish
11-11-2005, 12:26 PM
I've been very very loyal to DV up until this year. But... I think it's time for a change..... bring in the next generation HC after this season. It would be perfect timing, as quite a few vets we depend on are planning retirement soon.

I'm still undecided as to keeping Gun..........

Chiefnj
11-11-2005, 12:31 PM
Why do people think that if a new coach comes in the team has a better chance of immediate success?

MOhillbilly
11-11-2005, 12:33 PM
Why do people think that if a new coach comes in the team has a better chance of immediate success?


id rather KC be crap for 3-4 years than be around .500.

milkman
11-11-2005, 12:43 PM
Why do people think that if a new coach comes in the team has a better chance of immediate success?

I don't think that the team has a better chance of immediate success.

But, depending on the coach, I think the team has a better chance of succeeding in a couple of years, and might be a tougher team in terms of attitude.

This team is a reflection of Dick's soft attitude.

I didn't like the idea of bringing Dick in when he was hired, even before there was any idea of losing picks to hire him, and I will be glad when he's gone.

StcChief
11-11-2005, 12:44 PM
Until we draft better, consistently, it won't matter...Who the coach is brought in.

Some of the coaching staff should follow him out if he leaves.

bishop_74
11-11-2005, 12:45 PM
I don't think that the team has a better chance of immediate success.

But, depending on the coach, I think the team has a better chance of succeeding in a couple of years, and might be a tougher team in terms of attitude.

This team is a reflection of Dick's soft attitude.

I didn't like the idea of bringing Dick in when he was hired, even before there was any idea of losing picks to hire him, and I will be glad when he's gone.

I don't agree wiht this at all. Marty to Gunther was a HUGE failure. I just don't want to get any worse.

Rausch
11-11-2005, 12:48 PM
I don't agree wiht this at all. Marty to Gunther was a HUGE failure. I just don't want to get any worse.

I didn't see it as a huge failure.

It was a continuation of the floundering and underachieving we saw under Marty.

Neverymind, I fold...

milkman
11-11-2005, 12:51 PM
I don't agree wiht this at all. Marty to Gunther was a HUGE failure. I just don't want to get any worse.

That's why I said "depending".

My expectations would be lowered if it's a Herman Edwards or a Dom Capers.

My hope is that Carl might actually get it right, finally.

But, the reality is, Carl has selected Marty, Gun, and now Dick.

I guess that I should have my hopes dashed completely by now.

But I can't help it.

I have an incongruous nature.

I'm a cynical dreamer.

bishop_74
11-11-2005, 12:54 PM
That's why I said "depending".

My expectations would be lowered if it's a Herman Edwards or a Dom Capers.

My hope is that Carl might actually get it right, finally.

But, the reality is, Carl has selected Marty, Gun, and now Dick.

I guess that I should have my hopes dashed completely by now.

But I can't help it.

I have an incongruous nature.

I'm a cynical dreamer.

Is there anyone out there that you would feel would almost guaruntee a better team in the future? I felt that way about DV and you have to admit, we are a far better team. I am just not sure anyone else could come in and do any better.

chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 12:57 PM
you are getting away from the options. You telling me that none of the scenarios I mentioned would change your minds? Even going 10-6 and not going to playoffs would make us one of the Top 10 best teams in the league. I think a lot of you are very jaded and don't realize what you have!

Gaz
11-11-2005, 12:58 PM
I will be happy with Vermeil for as long as he wants to stay.

xoxo~
Gaz
Content with his HC.

milkman
11-11-2005, 01:06 PM
Is there anyone out there that you would feel would almost guaruntee a better team in the future? I felt that way about DV and you have to admit, we are a far better team. I am just not sure anyone else could come in and do any better.

Are we really a better team?

Than what?

IMO, the teams Marty fielded were superior to the teams that Dick has fielded, but Marty was his own worst enemy.

There are no guarantees in life, especially in the NFL.

I think there are options available that would give at least a chance to improve.

Mike Trgovic is someone I would consider.

I wouldn't mind giving Greg Williams a second chance in KC.

I've seen Ron Rivera's name bandied about on this forum, and based on what he's accomplished in such a short time in Chicago, I wouldn't be opposed to him.

Bwana
11-11-2005, 01:17 PM
No thanks.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 01:21 PM
Trgovac should be our next head coach...

NEXT YEAR.

Mr. Laz
11-11-2005, 01:24 PM
I personally would like Vermeil to be our HC as long as he likes. (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=128604)..





,

B_Ambuehl
11-11-2005, 01:30 PM
you guys expect too much from coaches. There are only 4 or 5 of them that do things any differently then the other 30......and 2 of those are here already.

People talk about guys Herm Edwards like they'd be an uprgrade...lol Jeezus christ all you gotta do is look at how bad he sucked on opening day.

Area 51
11-11-2005, 01:31 PM
If they go 5-11 he should come back for another year.

KcMizzou
11-11-2005, 01:32 PM
I will be happy with Vermeil for as long as he wants to stay.

xoxo~
Gaz
Content with his HC.
Me too. Don't know if we're the silent majority, or the silent minority.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 01:32 PM
you guys expect too much from coaches. There are only 4 or 5 of them that do things any differently then the other 30......and 2 of those are here already.

People talk about guys Herm Edwards like they'd be an uprgrade...lol Jeezus christ all you gotta do is look at how bad he sucked on opening day.

Yep. Retreads suck.

We need somebody NEW.

Give me Trgovac or Rivera.

shakesthecat
11-11-2005, 01:33 PM
If DV can somehow get this team into the playoffs and actually win a game, then I wouldn't have an issue with him returning.

Anything less and he needs to go.

HemiEd
11-11-2005, 01:34 PM
THE EVOLUTION OF A COACH

1. Old coach gets fired.

2. New coach gets hired and says "we're gonna do "this" and we're gonna do "that."

3. As long as "this" and "that" is different then the old coaches "this" and "that" the fans get hyped up and say things like "I love this staff", "we're going to the superbowl baby" Rock on!" "now we have this!" Sales of season tickets pick up.

4. If he's lucky, the new coach and his team have success actually changing "this" and "that" and pick up some wins doing so.

5. Fans stay fired up. "Yeah can you believe our (offense/defense/d-line play, secondary, qb play, insert whatever you want etc.), it's so much better then it was when ____ was here."

6. Coach has some success but with each team only having so much moeny to spend there's no possible way to optimize all the possible "this" and "thats" at the same time.

7. Fans don't realize that, they want it all now.

8. Coach says "well we're doing a good job at "this" and "that" (which is entirely different then the last coaches "this's" and "thats") but we need to improve "this" and change "this". We'll continue working towards our goals.

9. Repeat #8

10. Repeat #8 again

11. Fans get tired of #8 and no that those "goals" will never be reached.

12. Season ticket sales start to decline.

13. Start over with #1.


ROFL About as good a job as I have ever seen at detailing the NFL business! In a large market like Chicago they do not repeat number 8 so much and go directly to 13. Fans get all excited again.

milkman
11-11-2005, 01:36 PM
Yep. Retreads suck.

We need somebody NEW.

Give me Trgovac or Rivera.

I would agree, overall, with the concept that retreads suck.

But like everything else, there are exceptions.

Bill Bellichick is the prime example.

That's why I wouldn't mind giving Greg Williams another chance.

I just have this gut feeling about that guy.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 01:39 PM
I would agree, overall, with the concept that retreads suck.

But like everything else, there are exceptions.

Bill Bellichick is the prime example.

That's why I wouldn't mind giving Greg Williams another chance.

I just have this gut feeling about that guy.

I don't really consider Williams a "retread". It's not like he was there for 5 years or anything.

I'm against bringing in people that have been head coaches for going on a decade and done nothing with it.

I'm also against bringing in anyone that was affiliated with Marty and/or Vermeil and their staffs.

milkman
11-11-2005, 01:42 PM
I don't really consider Williams a "retread". It's not like he was there for 5 years or anything.

I'm against bringing in people that have been head coaches for going on a decade and done nothing with it.

I'm also against bringing in anyone that was affiliated with Marty and/or Vermeil and their staffs.

Oh, gotcha.

I am in 1000% agreement with you then on the retread coach, and the Marty/Dick affiliation, then.

philfree
11-11-2005, 01:46 PM
I'll keep the coach who has coached two different teams/franchises to the Super Bowl and three different teams/franchises to the playoffs which is something only one other coach has done I believe. Those things weren't accidents. DV has his O in place and the QB to run it. IMO to wish for something different is.....oh....well...... not very smart thinking.

PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
11-11-2005, 01:54 PM
Seems to me Fimiliarity breeding contempt is hard at work in KC.

PhilFree:arrow:

ck_IN
11-11-2005, 01:54 PM
If this team doesn't at least appear in the Super Bowl DV and his crew should slink out of town as quickly as they can.

Every team has injuries, you don't hear them whining about it. The injuries this team have had have been realitively few and with the exceptions of Priest and Roaf they've been minor. Put that crutch away.

The schedule has been middle of the road and many of our tough games are at home. Another crutch in the closet.

CP went on a shopping spree and bought the defense that DV couldn't develop. The offense doesn't have to carry the team anymore. Yet another crutch.

DV has had 4 or 5 years to build and estabilsh his hand picked offense with all of the players and coaches of his choosing. If they aren't doing it the fault lies in DV's mirror. Begone ye crutch.

DV has no excuse. He's had the time, he has his players, he has his coaches, he has a middle of the road schedule. A Super Bowl appearance or begone.

JOhn
11-11-2005, 02:01 PM
Me too. Don't know if we're the silent majority, or the silent minority.
:shrug:

wutamess
11-11-2005, 02:10 PM
Not NO!
But HELL NO!

I'm sick of Vermeil's 5 year 3 year plan.
He's nothing more than the equivalent of Gunther (record wise)

Time to rebuild it all starting from coaching to players.

Mr. Laz
11-11-2005, 02:22 PM
Seems to me Fimiliarity breeding contempt is hard at work in KC.

PhilFree:arrow:
fear of change is doing it's share of work too

Chiefnj
11-11-2005, 02:27 PM
The up can coming and successful teams are teams that drafted well. It doesnít matter who the coach is, if you donít have an influx of talented youth, you arenít going to make it.

If the Chiefs were to finish strong and win 11 games (which would include wins against SD and Denver), Iíd be open to Vermeil sticking around another year.

I would hope that with the coaching continuity that Green, Roaf and Shields could all hang in for another year. Free agent/draft picks at WR, OT and DL and the Chiefs should be set for a decent run.

I know that if another coach came in you have to realistically give them three years to turn things around.

People say they want to rebuild, but they generally don't accept it when the team is 5-11.

BigChiefFan
11-11-2005, 02:32 PM
I think Vermeil deserves to stay. He's done a good job. I've questioned some of his calls, but he knows how to motivate his players. Are there better coaches? Yes, but the team is finally getting some balance on both sides of the ball. It would be foolish to start over again, when we'll probably get minimal, if any, better production next year with a new head coach. The playoffs should buy Vermeil an additional year, IMO.

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 02:33 PM
What are the chances Gunther is retained as the "stop-gap" head coach?

philfree
11-11-2005, 02:33 PM
fear of change is doing it's share of work too


Fear? ROFL If fear is not wanting to make changes to our team that will undermine the best QB we've had since Dawson and one of the best offenses ever in the NFL then I guess I fear change.

PhilFree:arrow:

Tuckdaddy
11-11-2005, 02:35 PM
I don't think we should want DV back either. Our offense will be bad next season, and DV will not be able to stop it. We will be in rebuilding mode on that side of the ball and I really think we should get a defensive coach.

philfree
11-11-2005, 02:37 PM
I don't think we should want DV back either. Our offense will be bad next season, and DV will not be able to stop it. We will be in rebuilding mode on that side of the ball and I really think we should get a defensive coach.

Really?

PhilFree:arrow:

HemiEd
11-11-2005, 02:38 PM
What are the chances Gunther is retained as the "stop-gap" head coach?


no. PLease! no.

BigChiefFan
11-11-2005, 02:38 PM
I don't think we should want DV back either. Our offense will be bad next season, and DV will not be able to stop it. We will be in rebuilding mode on that side of the ball and I really think we should get a defensive coach.
If the offense is what needs to be rebuilt why go with a D coach?

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 02:39 PM
no. PLease! no.

I'm just saying, its a possibility.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 02:40 PM
Fear? ROFL If fear is not wanting to make changes to our team that will undermine the best QB we've had since Dawson and one of the best offenses ever in the NFL then I guess I fear change.

PhilFree:arrow:

If Trent Green is the best QB we've had since Dawson, changing coaching won't undermine a goddamn thing.

He's a vet, and a VERY smart vet.

Rausch
11-11-2005, 02:41 PM
What are the chances Gunther is retained as the "stop-gap" head coach?

You probably don't want to know...

Mr. Laz
11-11-2005, 02:42 PM
What are the chances Gunther is retained as the "stop-gap" head coach?
better than average imo


something will come up .... like the chiefs will spend a month trying to talk vermeil into staying. Then, just like with marty, the number of HC candidates will be so small that the chiefs will claim Gunther as the only viable candidate.

thus continuing our policy of creating our own problems and then crying about it.



hey ... i'm just saying :shrug:

HemiEd
11-11-2005, 02:42 PM
I'm just saying, its a possibility.


You really think so? :hmmm: Do you think Carl would make that mistake again, he feels that guilty?

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 02:43 PM
I think the FO may recognize that Gunther would be a decent candidate to fill in before we can get the guy we want.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 02:45 PM
better than average imo


something will come up .... like the chiefs will spend a month trying to talk vermeil into staying. Then, just like with marty, the number of HC candidates will be so small that the chiefs will claim Gunther as the only viable candidate.

thus continuing our policy of creating our own problems and then crying about it.



hey ... i'm just saying :shrug:

entirely realistic scenario IMO...

Mr. Laz
11-11-2005, 02:45 PM
You really think so? :hmmm: Do you think Carl would make that mistake again, he feels that guilty?
i already called it a week or so ago


imo there is a better than average chance the gunther was brought back with that very thought in mind.

if Vermeil leaves, Gunther will be the backup plan instead of Al Saunders.

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 02:46 PM
i already called it a week or so ago


imo there is a better than average chance the gunther was brought back with that very thought in mind.

if Vermeil leaves, Gunther will be the backup plan instead of Al Saunders.

At least we know Gunther will run the ball.

I just hope he doesnt bring in Jimmy Raye after Oakland fires his ass.

Brock
11-11-2005, 02:46 PM
I think the FO may recognize that Gunther would be a decent candidate to fill in before we can get the guy we want.

Maybe the FO knows a good airplane seating chart designer when they see it.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 02:47 PM
At least we know Gunther will run the ball.

I just hope he doesnt bring in Jimmy Raye after Oakland fires his ass.

Will he?

We seemed pretty convinced he was gonna run pressure defense the last time around and instead he trotted out Spurt and the Soft Zone...

HemiEd
11-11-2005, 02:47 PM
i already called it a week or so ago


imo there is a better than average chance the gunther was brought back with that very thought in mind.

if Vermeil leaves, Gunther will be the backup plan instead of Al Saunders.


I would jump off a building, ..........maybe.

Mr. Laz
11-11-2005, 02:48 PM
Will he?

We seemed pretty convinced he was gonna run pressure defense the last time around and instead he trotted out Spurt and the Soft Zone...

keep f-in doubting the Foot Shufflin' Porter!! :cuss:

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 02:49 PM
All I know is, if Gunther is the next HC, it will be really entertaining around this place. ROFL

HemiEd
11-11-2005, 02:50 PM
Maybe the FO knows a good airplane seating chart designer when they see it.


Or Linbackers coach. Ever heard of the Peter principle?




you keep getting promoted until you can no longer perform the job adequately.


or something like that. who, knows though, he may have learned a lot since last time.

cdcox
11-11-2005, 02:51 PM
I think Carl would rehire Gunther as head coach just for the pleasure of firing him on the internet all over again.

FAX
11-11-2005, 02:54 PM
In all seriousness, this franchise is in desperate need of a head coach who is not all cried out. I'm certain that we can all agree on that, at least.

FAX THE PRAGMATIST

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 03:09 PM
I agree Philfree. When an Off. gets close to 400 first downs in one year, has 75-100 rushing TDs in a three year span. and a QB that nobody repects eventhough he has passed for 4000+ yards 3-4 in arow. I fear change to. The only thing the team was lacking was a DF coor. now they have probably one of the best. And it takes 2-3 years to improve a defense that is use to something else.

FAX
11-11-2005, 03:10 PM
The Faiders are nothing but vipers.
They thought they had won (the a$$ wipers).
But when LJ went flying
DV started crying,
"Just a year ago he was in diapers!"

FAX

philfree
11-11-2005, 03:17 PM
If Trent Green is the best QB we've had since Dawson, changing coaching won't undermine a goddamn thing.

He's a vet, and a VERY smart vet.

This is the only offense Greens been involved in since he's been in the NFL. Combine that with the fact that he only has a couple of good years left in his career and changing offenses would be wasting his last few years with a learning curve. I believe that would affect Green quite a bit.

PhilFree:arrow:

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 03:17 PM
I agree Philfree. When an Off. gets close to 400 first downs in one year, has 75-100 rushing TDs in a three year span. and a QB that nobody repects eventhough he has passed for 4000+ yards 3-4 in arow. I fear change to. The only thing the team was lacking was a DF coor. now they have probably one of the best. And it takes 2-3 years to improve a defense that is use to something else.

We've had a losing record 3 out of Vermeil's first 4 years here.

If you fear change, you are a masochist.

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 03:18 PM
This is the only offense Greens been involved in since he's been in the NFL. Combine that with the fact that he only has a couple of good years left in his career and changing offenses would be wasting his last few years with a learning curve. I believe that would affect Green quite a bit.

PhilFree:arrow:

You're underestimating Green. He's not some dumbass who can't learn an offense in an offseason.

FAX
11-11-2005, 03:21 PM
This is the only offense Greens been involved in since he's been in the NFL. Combine that with the fact that he only has a couple of good years left in his career and changing offenses would be wasting his last few years with a learning curve. I believe that would affect Green quite a bit.

PhilFree:arrow:

I agree with you, Mr. philfree. Moving Trent into a different offense (although he could certainly handle it) would be a waste of years of game experience. Not a good move at all.

FAX THE INSIGHTFUL

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 03:28 PM
we had a losing recored in 2 of the 4 seasons and one .500. but why did they finish that way the DF and because they were tring to learn a new DF form greg robinson.

FAX
11-11-2005, 03:30 PM
we had a losing recored in 2 of the 4 seasons and one .500. but why did they finish that way the DF and because they were tring to learn a new DF form greg robinson.

You pose an excellent question, Mr. DJorDT. Utterly incoherent, but excellent.

FAX THE CONFUSED

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 03:36 PM
Well the D was trying to learn a new defence under GR and then he left after a 13-3 season and now the D is learning a new defence under gun.

FAX
11-11-2005, 03:43 PM
Well the D was trying to learn a new defense under GR and then he left after a 13-3 season and now the D is learning a new defense under gun.

I believe that is 100% correct, Mr. DJorDT ...

...so I will answer ...

... yes.

It appears that we have spent the last few years learning defensive schemes. Most certainly, this fact has not proved beneficial to our win/loss percentages.

FAX THE AGREEABLE

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 03:46 PM
Thank u i am glad that somebody agrees with me that that is the only reason we have not had a good D in 5-6 years

chiefsfan1963
11-11-2005, 03:46 PM
I don't care how you slice it even if you don't like DV you have to give him some credit if this team finishes 11-5 and makes the playoffs. There has to be some room for you to have him back then. 6-2 for the rest of the remaining games would be impressive. No?

FAX
11-11-2005, 03:47 PM
Thank u i am glad that somebody agrees with me that that is the only reason we have not had a good D in 5-6 years

Now, now. Let's not get too carried away here, Mr. DJorDT. I'm unconvinced that it is the "only" reason.

FAX THE CAUTIOUS

philfree
11-11-2005, 03:48 PM
You're underestimating Green. He's not some dumbass who can't learn an offense in an offseason.

I'm not uderestimating anything. When you have an offense like we have and the QB to run it as well as the whole offensive system in place why would you change it?

PhilFree:arrow:

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 03:53 PM
Well what are some other reasons for the losing reacords

FAX
11-11-2005, 03:57 PM
Well what are some other reasons for the losing reacords

There are many, I suppose. Yet, oddly, the first that comes to mind is the lack of a proper education.

FAX THE SPONTANEOUS

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 04:01 PM
Thanks for pointing out my Sh!% spelling

FAX
11-11-2005, 04:12 PM
Thanks for pointing out my Sh!% spelling

My apologies, Mr. DJorDT. It's simply that poor grammer sends relentless and terrible cold chills through me as if the ghost of my 4th grade teacher (Mrs. Balloright) were attempting to clamp her gruesome, toothless, and repellent maw on my scrotum.

I suppose I overreact.

FAX THE SORRY

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 04:14 PM
Don't worry i don't care

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 04:15 PM
I do see your point about the only reason. I guess the chiefs have not drafted the best in the past 5-6 years

FAX
11-11-2005, 04:19 PM
I do see your point about the only reason. I guess the chiefs have not drafted the best in the past 5-6 years

You raise another interesting point, Mr. DJorDT, in spite of your propensity to avoid punctuation. Actually, the draft alone may not be the sole reason. Rather, could it be that DV does not trust rookies? He has rarely brought them up quickly. Or, could it be that DV does not develop rookies as well as he might?

Troubling questions, indeed.

FAX THE FROWNING NOW

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 04:22 PM
You have good points FAX. I guess it is a combonation of all the above.

Bwana
11-11-2005, 04:25 PM
My apologies, Mr. DJorDT. It's simply that poor grammer sends relentless and terrible cold chills through me as if the ghost of my 4th grade teacher (Mrs. Balloright) were attempting to clamp her gruesome, toothless, and repellent maw on my scrotum.

I suppose I overreact.

FAX THE SORRY

Bad teacher!

:eek:

FAX
11-11-2005, 04:41 PM
Bad teacher!

:eek:

Agreed, Mr. Bwana. I would tell you more, but Mrs. Balloright's repugnance defies mortal description. Yet, most of her students could spell.

The ones that lived, at least.

FAX THE SURVIVOR

milkman
11-11-2005, 04:51 PM
Well what are some other reasons for the losing reacords

The primary reason is Dick.

This team has had a soft attitude since the day he took the job.

There's no fire, no emotion, no intensity.

If a player plays poorly, unless he's a kicker, Dick will make excuses, and tell what a great "effort guy" he is.

Or that he plays "mistake free".

There's no accountability for not making plays.

Oh, and we could be a better team if we didn't play such a tough schedule.

Wah, ****ing wah, ****ing wah.

5for5SB
11-11-2005, 04:52 PM
The up can coming and successful teams are teams that drafted well. It doesnít matter who the coach is, if you donít have an influx of talented youth, you arenít going to make it.

If the Chiefs were to finish strong and win 11 games (which would include wins against SD and Denver), Iíd be open to Vermeil sticking around another year.

I would hope that with the coaching continuity that Green, Roaf and Shields could all hang in for another year. Free agent/draft picks at WR, OT and DL and the Chiefs should be set for a decent run.

I know that if another coach came in you have to realistically give them three years to turn things around.

People say they want to rebuild, but they generally don't accept it when the team is 5-11.


it is all about the draft draft draft. you guys have been attacking me like crazy for my post, but your own are saying it.

milkman
11-11-2005, 04:54 PM
Oh, and let us not forget his loyalty to coaches.

Wouldn't fire Spinner.
Guinta is still here.
D-Line has underperformed from the start, and yet Hairston is still here, along with the other guy who's name escapes me at the moment.

milkman
11-11-2005, 04:58 PM
it is all about the draft draft draft. you guys have been attacking me like crazy for my post, but your own are saying it.

And there are those that have told you that we've been saying it for years.

They aren't attacking your ideas, they are attacking the trollish nature that you presented those ideas with.

5for5SB
11-11-2005, 05:03 PM
Not hardly. Only 2 to 3 people have given any names or any reasons about the future.

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 06:32 PM
I know this is getting off topic but who would you guys rather have. The duo of DT and Neil Smith or the Duo of DJ and Jared Allen.

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 06:36 PM
I know this is getting off topic but who would you guys rather have. The duo of DT and Neil Smith or the Duo of DJ and Jared Allen.

You should be banned.

milkman
11-11-2005, 06:43 PM
I know this is getting off topic but who would you guys rather have. The duo of DT and Neil Smith or the Duo of DJ and Jared Allen.

That's not a fair question to DJ and Allen at this time.

DJ is a rookie and Allen is only in his second season.

Give them time to reach their full potential, and surround them with as talented group of defenders that DT and Neil were surrounded by, then ask that question.

That being said, there's only about three Chiefs defenders in their history, that I've seen, that I would rather have over DT.

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 06:44 PM
Why i think that jared allen will end up being better than neil smith and DJ will be close but yet no where close to DT. I was just wondering as to which combo will end up being better not saying that DT isn't the greatest LIne backer in History of chiefs Football be couse he is.

milkman
11-11-2005, 06:47 PM
Why i think that jared allen will end up being better than neil smith and DJ will be close but yet no where close to DT. I was just wondering as to which combo will end up being better not saying that DT isn't the greatest LIne backer in History of chiefs Football be couse he is.

No.
DT was great, albeit, one dimensional, but Willie Lanier and Bobby Bell were the greatest in Chiefs history.

DJorDT
11-11-2005, 06:48 PM
I'm sorry i forgot about WL and BB I don't know how but i did.

|Zach|
11-11-2005, 06:49 PM
I have not read this thread yet but just having a good regular season record is not good enough anymore...in the least...

Maybe it was good enough after 5 years of not winning a playoff game...hell maybe it was good enough after 10 years...but now? No way.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 08:09 PM
This is the only offense Greens been involved in since he's been in the NFL. Combine that with the fact that he only has a couple of good years left in his career and changing offenses would be wasting his last few years with a learning curve. I believe that would affect Green quite a bit.

PhilFree:arrow:

He played in this offense (fairly well too) in Washington, WITHOUT Saunders or Vermeil.

htismaqe
11-11-2005, 08:11 PM
Not hardly. Only 2 to 3 people have given any names or any reasons about the future.

Most people here know that this team can't draft worth a shit.

Doesn't make you any less of a troll, Ken.

Count Zarth
11-11-2005, 08:42 PM
Doesn't make you any less of a troll, Ken.

ROFL

philfree
11-11-2005, 09:15 PM
He played in this offense (fairly well too) in Washington, WITHOUT Saunders or Vermeil.

So who's the worthy candidate who has experience with this type of offense and/or will employ this type of offense? Or will it be a case of Hiring an HC and then telling him who his OC is gonna be? Martz(Greens OC from when he was with the skins)? No thanks! Uhhhhhh who else? Cam Cameron? Who? I suspect that if DV does indeed retire after this season then Saunders is the most likely replacement. Saunders HC, Gun DC and Jason Verduzco or Terry Shea as the OC. If that's the case then I'd just as soon keep DV as the HC.

PhilFree:arrow:

OldTownChief
11-11-2005, 09:24 PM
Not even gonna waste time reading this thread, but put me down for a DV can't get the hell out soon enough.

Frankie
11-11-2005, 09:34 PM
Why do people think that if a new coach comes in the team has a better chance of immediate success?
Because the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence!
:shake:
I'm with Chiefsfan1963 on this one. This year injuries have been f%#@ing terrible, and at key positions to boot. And yet we are competing. What key injuries have the Colts had? Or the Donks? DV is doing a hell of a job this year.

OldTownChief
11-11-2005, 09:40 PM
So who's the worthy candidate who has experience with this type of offense and/or will employ this type of offense? Or will it be a case of Hiring an HC and then telling him who his OC is gonna be? Martz(Greens OC from when he was with the skins)? No thanks! Uhhhhhh who else? Cam Cameron? Who? I suspect that if DV does indeed retire after this season then Saunders is the most likely replacement. Saunders HC, Gun DC and Jason Verduzco or Terry Shea as the OC. If that's the case then I'd just as soon keep DV as the HC.

PhilFree:arrow:

If our new head coach is a OC from anywhere I'll puke.

milkman
11-11-2005, 09:41 PM
Because the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence!
:shake:
I'm with Chiefsfan1963 on this one. This year injuries have been f%#@ing terrible, and at key positions to boot. And yet we are competing. What key injuries have the Colts had? Or the Donks? DV is doing a hell of a job this year.

We've blown a game we should have won, as the direct result of piss poor coaching.

We should be competeing at a higher level, but for Dick and crew.

Chiefnj
11-11-2005, 10:19 PM
We've blown a game we should have won, as the direct result of piss poor coaching.

We should be competeing at a higher level, but for Dick and crew.

From your location I take it that you don't like Marty, which means you probably didnt like Gunther either. I think you also stated you were unhappy when DV was hired. After having three coaches you hate, what makes you think #4 would be to your liking?

Logical
11-11-2005, 11:02 PM
Even if they don't make the playoffs, if we can go 10-6 with all the injuries DV should go it at least another year to improve on 2005. I know alot of folks here want him gone, but I'm curious if they agree with this condition. Right now I've said I like him back b/c I still think he's our best chance of being a playoff team in the future sooner.

If 10-6 doesn't do it for you what about 11-5 and a playoff game?, 2 playoff games?, getting to the AFC championship game?, Super Bowl game?, World Champion's? Thoughts?Nope short of making it to the Super Bowl I want him gone.

BigRedChief
11-11-2005, 11:30 PM
So 10-6 is a great coaching job? What do you give Chicago? They have no offensive talent. What about the Giants? Bengals? Shanahan took Brown rejects and as of right now making them play respectful.

Lots of good coaching going on in the NFL.

bringbackmarty
11-11-2005, 11:33 PM
Even if they don't make the playoffs, if we can go 10-6 with all the injuries DV should go it at least another year to improve on 2005. I know alot of folks here want him gone, but I'm curious if they agree with this condition. Right now I've said I like him back b/c I still think he's our best chance of being a playoff team in the future sooner.

If 10-6 doesn't do it for you what about 11-5 and a playoff game?, 2 playoff games?, getting to the AFC championship game?, Super Bowl game?, World Champion's? Thoughts?
min 2nd round of playoffs for him to be back. Or maybe he be back inlike a transitional capacity. Honestly unless we win out this year, we ain't goin too far in no playoffs. I don't see us goin into indy, or pittsburg, or New england without a team that is just dominating the second half of it's schedule and winning a close game, cause all of these teams are loaded this year.

bringbackmarty
11-11-2005, 11:33 PM
of course so am I. (loaded that is)

Logical
11-12-2005, 12:32 AM
I don't care how you slice it even if you don't like DV you have to give him some credit if this team finishes 11-5 and makes the playoffs. There has to be some room for you to have him back then. 6-2 for the rest of the remaining games would be impressive. No?No not without a Super Bowl appearance.

Gaz
11-12-2005, 05:55 AM
The good news [for me, at least], is that Vermeil will have the Chiefs HC job for as long as he wants it.

There is virtually zero probability that he will be fired, despite the angry and anguished cries of the haters.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes DV sticks around for a while.

Alphaman
11-12-2005, 07:30 AM
I'll weigh in here. I think regardless of the outcome this year, Vermeil should call it a career. Not because he's not a good coach, but because he won't be a good fit for KC. After this season, the Chiefs begin to rebuild. There's a chance that next year Shields, Roaf, Holmes, Richardson, Kennison, and Browning may all retire. That's alot of Vermeil's leadership. There are other players that need to be replaced on the roster or moved down the depth chart (McCleon, Hicks and depending how he finishes the season, Black).

Vermeil just won't be in the game long enough to do another rebuilding and he's too loyal to make the moves necessary to accelerate that process.

Best case scenario for me is that we go on a run, make the playoffs, get to and win the Superbowl and then Vermeil rides off into the sunset.

My choice for our next HC is Herm Edwards.

Chiefnj
11-12-2005, 07:38 AM
So 10-6 is a great coaching job? What do you give Chicago? They have no offensive talent. What about the Giants? Bengals? Shanahan took Brown rejects and as of right now making them play respectful.

Lots of good coaching going on in the NFL.

Chicago, Giants, Bengals. All teams that have built through the draft with an influx of young talent. None of them have won anything yet, nor are they locks to make the playoffs.

Rausch
11-12-2005, 07:40 AM
Chicago, Giants, Bengals. All teams that have built through the draft with an influx of young talent. None of them have won anything yet, nor are they locks to make the playoffs.

Um, so, like, yer' trying to make a point or something?...

the Talking Can
11-12-2005, 07:40 AM
I'm not going to read this thread so I don't have to kill everyone involved for talking about Gun being our next coach.

Rausch
11-12-2005, 07:41 AM
I'm not going to read this thread so I don't have to kill everyone involved for talking about Gun being our next coach.

I'm your friend.

They say it's easier when your friend gives you the news....

Frankie
11-12-2005, 08:46 AM
The good news [for me, at least], is that Vermeil will have the Chiefs HC job for as long as he wants it.

There is virtually zero probability that he will be fired, despite the angry and anguished cries of the haters.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes DV sticks around for a while.

AAAAAMEN! :thumb:

HC_Chief
11-12-2005, 11:24 AM
No. Get the *%&^ out, you tired, over-the-hill, demented old fart.

philfree
11-12-2005, 11:25 AM
The good news [for me, at least], is that Vermeil will have the Chiefs HC job for as long as he wants it.

There is virtually zero probability that he will be fired, despite the angry and anguished cries of the haters.

xoxo~
Gaz
Hopes DV sticks around for a while.



I don't know that DV can walk away from Trent Green while he's playing for the Chiefs either so I think the odds of DV being the HC next year has increased with the passing of Trents father.


PhilFree:arrow:

Calcountry
11-12-2005, 11:51 AM
id rather KC be crap for 3-4 years than be around .500.Not if Carl Peterson is doing the drafting.

Calcountry
11-12-2005, 11:53 AM
I will be happy with Vermeil for as long as he wants to stay.

xoxo~
Gaz
Content with his HC.
I agree. DV is kind of soft, but he is the best soft coach in the game.

milkman
11-12-2005, 07:38 PM
From your location I take it that you don't like Marty, which means you probably didnt like Gunther either. I think you also stated you were unhappy when DV was hired. After having three coaches you hate, what makes you think #4 would be to your liking?

I've addressed this question before.

With Carl doing the hiring, I fully expect to be unhappy about the person he hires.

But I hold out hope that he'll surprise the hell out of me.

As I said before, call me a cynical dreamer.

milkman
11-12-2005, 07:44 PM
I'll weigh in here. I think regardless of the outcome this year, Vermeil should call it a career. Not because he's not a good coach, but because he won't be a good fit for KC. After this season, the Chiefs begin to rebuild. There's a chance that next year Shields, Roaf, Holmes, Richardson, Kennison, and Browning may all retire. That's alot of Vermeil's leadership. There are other players that need to be replaced on the roster or moved down the depth chart (McCleon, Hicks and depending how he finishes the season, Black).

Vermeil just won't be in the game long enough to do another rebuilding and he's too loyal to make the moves necessary to accelerate that process.

Best case scenario for me is that we go on a run, make the playoffs, get to and win the Superbowl and then Vermeil rides off into the sunset.

My choice for our next HC is Herm Edwards.

So what is it about mediocrity (Martyocrity, in other words) that you find so appealing?

milkman
11-12-2005, 07:46 PM
I agree. DV is kind of soft, but he is the best soft coach in the game.

Huh??

chefsos
11-12-2005, 07:55 PM
So what is it about mediocrity (Martyocrity, in other words) that you find so appealing?
Hey, Alphaman's offering you a SB. Trade him some Martyocrity for it. :)

Bowser
11-12-2005, 07:59 PM
I don't know that DV can walk away from Trent Green while he's playing for the Chiefs either so I think the odds of DV being the HC next year has increased with the passing of Trents father.


PhilFree:arrow:

Huh. Interesting angle.