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View Full Version : Where will the improved pass rush come from?


AirForceChief
11-12-2005, 10:11 AM
In musing over the first half of the season and eyeing the second half, I've come to these conclusions:

1) The offense is about where I expected it. Injuries and age have caught up with this unit, but it is still playing at a high level and is serviceable. Playoff grade.

2) The defense has not made the improvement I thought it would.

Bell has not had the impact I thought he would. The LBs overall are improved, but not the dominant force I had hoped for. However, the real culpret on this side of the ball is the front four (or three when we go to the 3-4). These guys are simply not getting to the QB. No consistant pass rush. I was high on Allen, Browning, Siavii and Sims going into the season. Allen has been a one trick poney and he's delivered the most impact of the group. That speaks volumes for the level of disappointment I have for the others on the D-line. Dalton seems to disappear, Sims out w/ injury, Hicks - well I'm certain he takes the field, Browning has been dinged up, and Siavii is by far the most disappointing player on the line.

As a result, the DBs are still getting lit up. Add to the lack of pass rush the inconsistancy brought about due to injuries (Cripes, when will Surtain and Warfield get on the field at the same time?), and it's easy to see why we're giving up the passing yards we are. When you start thinking that Washinton may be able to provide the defensive consistency you're looking for, you know you're desperate.

So where will the improvement come from? Cunningham and improved scheme? Our blitz schemes have sucked to date, IMO. Improved play from the DTs with Sims return and Siavii getting his act together? Pressure from the edges with Hicks and Allen? Dalton, Browning, Wilkerson? What about Gun's personal favorite pass rushing prodigy: Hall? Where? Where? WHERE?

Sully
11-12-2005, 10:13 AM
I don't know.

Otter
11-12-2005, 10:14 AM
I was hoping divine intervention because I can't really see any other alternatives.

(Rush Bell)

the Talking Can
11-12-2005, 10:15 AM
Walmart?

the Talking Can
11-12-2005, 10:15 AM
I honestly forget Bell even plays for us.

runnercyclist
11-12-2005, 10:18 AM
Carlos Hall

Calcountry
11-12-2005, 10:42 AM
I honestly forget Bell even plays for us.Bell is on the CGC plan. Collect game checks.

Mr. Laz
11-12-2005, 10:49 AM
we could start by using a better scheme to help these guys get a better pass rush.

right now we just line 4 guys up and say "stay in your lanes and push"

not many stunts ... no overloaded line formations


when we blitz we might as well hold up a sign

Mr. Laz
11-12-2005, 10:51 AM
Bell is on the CGC plan. Collect game checks.
it doesn't help that we signed a power LB/DE and then tell him to drop 15 yrds deep in coverage a large portion of the time.

with the defense we've been playing we might as well pull Bell and stick Barber out there.

Our OLB's are glorified strong safeties right now

Sully
11-12-2005, 10:53 AM
it doesn't help that we signed a power LB/DE and then tell him to drop 15 yrds deep in coverage a large portion of the time.

with the defense we've been playing we might as well pull Bell and stick Barber out there.

Our OLB's are glorified strong safeties right now


Ding Ding Ding!!!
We have a winner!!!

htismaqe
11-12-2005, 11:46 AM
Laz is dead on...

Count Zarth
11-12-2005, 12:14 PM
I'm tired of seeing Bell used as a cover linebacker.

Fruit Ninja
11-12-2005, 12:28 PM
They dont allow bell to make any plays. First off, as they said he is dropping into coverage alot. 2ndly, Teams are running to DJ's side, and the check off pass is to DJ's side. They are not Running to the left. They rarely do. They may Playaction that way, but they dont ever run at Bell. So actually Bell has shut down his side of the Field when it comes to running and screen passes/ and RB dumps.


Back to the topic. We are playing more man and blitzing alot better, alot better timing blitz's as shown on the Mitchell sack last week.

Demonpenz
11-12-2005, 12:30 PM
why not just use bell as a DE when we rush 4

RedThat
11-12-2005, 12:34 PM
why not just use bell as a DE when we rush 4

Not a bad idea. Use him as a Falcon. I personally agree with Laz, the way were using Bell is not a good idea, we might as well put Barber in his place.
Just use Bell to blitz, or as a falcon.

|Zach|
11-12-2005, 12:35 PM
It will come from within. Harness your chi...repulse the monkey...

Chiefs Pantalones
11-12-2005, 01:48 PM
Now that Barber is back, I'd like to see more 3-4. Johnson, Mitchell, Bell, Barber. Cut Scanlon's ass.

cdcox
11-12-2005, 01:55 PM
Use him as a Falcon.

Please, no. Please let this abortion of an idea die forever.

http://www.kcstar.com/item/pages/chiefs.pat,sports/37743831.208

1997

Signs begin to appear that Thomas' career is starting to slide.

Hampered by an injury to his left triceps tendon, Thomas missed four games and played mostly with a bulky arm brace. Even more distressing, though, Thomas is switched to a new position called the "Falcon," which turns out to be a flop. In theory, the position is supposed to free him to make more plays. But the injury and the position switch limit him to 55 tackles and 9.5 sacks. And for the first season during his career, he did not force a fumble.

Mr. Laz
11-12-2005, 01:57 PM
Now that Barber is back, I'd like to see more 3-4. Johnson, Mitchell, Bell, Barber. Cut Scanlon's ass.
the only problem is that a 3-4 prolly takes this year's best defensive player off the field ... jared allen.

CupidStunt
11-12-2005, 02:04 PM
I'm tired of seeing Bell used as a cover linebacker.

Me too, and mostly because when he's actually going upfield, the pass rush gets better.

He's made plays; like the sack/FF in the Miami game, just not enough, and I put a lot (not all, but a lot) of that down to opportunity.

Chiefs Pantalones
11-12-2005, 02:11 PM
the only problem is that a 3-4 prolly takes this year's best defensive player off the field ... jared allen.

How could we get Bell in a better position to make some plays without taking Allen off the field? Switch to MLB? Then Kawika is off the field. This sucks.

Mr. Laz
11-12-2005, 02:18 PM
How could we get Bell in a better position to make some plays without taking Allen off the field? Switch to MLB? Then Kawika is off the field. This sucks.
i don't think switching him to any linebacker position will make a difference.

the defense we are playing now drops all the linebackers back into coverage unless they are blitzing. We've been blitzing safeties and cornerbacks more than linebackers lately.

:shrug:


i just have my fingers crossed that when we finally get healthy and surtain/warfield are actually on the field together, we will play more man coverage. That will allow both Knight and Bell to play to their strengths ... attacking the line of scrimmage.

Count Zarth
11-12-2005, 02:22 PM
There's no reason Bell and Allen can't be on the field rushing the passer at the same time.

I'd like to see the Chiefs rush 5 and drop 6 into coverage more often, with Bell as the 5th rusher.

jspchief
11-12-2005, 02:24 PM
we could start by using a better scheme to help these guys get a better pass rush.

right now we just line 4 guys up and say "stay in your lanes and push"

not many stunts ... no overloaded line formations


when we blitz we might as well hold up a signThe vanilla assignments from our D-line probably deserves credit for the improved run D. By keeping it simple, it also keeps the gap assignments for the LBs simple.

But it's also what makes our blitzes ineffective, because we don't fool any defenders into the wrong place.

Personally, I'm not sure it matters how we use Bell at this point. I was as big a pimp for him as anyone, but watching him on the field, he runs around like a cripple. I don't believe he has the speed or explosiveness that he once had.

IMO, unless Sims comes back (and plays like he did early this year), we won't be seeing an improved pass rush anytime soon.

Cochise
11-12-2005, 02:26 PM
I agree with the idea that our blitzes are telegraphed. Often, when the other team blitzes our offense, they're not cheating up, and other times when they are showing bitz they only send four. With us it's pretty easy to read.

I can't imagine that at this level an offense wouldn't be able to compensate when they know it's coming. Even a bad offense.

AirForceChief
11-12-2005, 03:08 PM
We should go with a speed package on obvious passing downs: Allen, Hall off the edges with Bell and Johnson from the LB positions. Have Browning and Dalton eat up the middle. That still leaves five players you can drop into coverage.

Mr. Laz
11-12-2005, 03:14 PM
The vanilla assignments from our D-line probably deserves credit for the improved run D. By keeping it simple, it also keeps the gap assignments for the LBs simple..
agreed ... i think the whole scheme is simple because they are trying to not give up the big play.


but can any scheme that simple ever be really effective?


i mean doesn't any quarterback playing against the chiefs have to sleep that much better knowing that he doesn't have to face any surprises?