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View Full Version : Organizational Failure... Draft and Development


nomad
11-13-2005, 03:27 PM
Failing to draft and develop new talent has left this team in the shape it's in today.

Everyome knows the list of busts, the failed development projects.....

Drafting well and making projects into valuable starters is what a good organization does.

KC is a collosal failure in this regard and is now reaping the benefits of no young talent at DT, WR, QB, FB, TE, CB.

Carl and crew can take a bow...

5for5SB
11-13-2005, 03:29 PM
Hmmmm, read my thread. You guys have piled on me for it, but Carl Peterson has screwed you guys over for way too long. Draft a new GM.

chief99
11-13-2005, 03:33 PM
Right.

I don't understand the love for Black or the other guy.

Both were low picks . Not all players develop into good players.

htismaqe
11-13-2005, 03:49 PM
Hmmmm, read my thread. You guys have piled on me for it, but Carl Peterson has screwed you guys over for way too long. Draft a new GM.

You were piled on for the WAY you posted, not what you posted. You of all people should know that, Ken...

FringeNC
11-13-2005, 03:51 PM
It is pathetic to have a glaring need at WR for year after year, and never come close to solving the problem.

Deberg_1990
11-13-2005, 03:52 PM
It only took 14 years for Carl Peterson to finally draft a "Franchise" Running Back. IM still waiting on a "Franchise" QB and WR....do we have to wait another 14 years for that????

Deberg_1990
11-13-2005, 03:53 PM
It is pathetic to have a glaring need at WR for year after year, and never come close to solving the problem.

Especially when you alledgedlly run a down the field passing attack.

ChiTown
11-13-2005, 03:54 PM
You were piled on for the WAY you posted, not what you posted. You of all people should know that, Ken...

Ken?

Is that Fudge Packer?

Sig Kauffman
11-13-2005, 03:54 PM
For those of you keeping score, we are now in Year 17 of Carl Peterson's Five-Year Plan

ChiTown
11-13-2005, 03:55 PM
For those of you keeping score, we are now in Year 17 of Carl Peterson's Five-Year Plan

Yes, but it's almost over....thank fugging gawd.

Hydrae
11-13-2005, 03:56 PM
It is pathetic to have a glaring need at WR for year after year, and never come close to solving the problem.

Who is our WR coach? Because that is probably where a lot of the blame should go.

Otter
11-13-2005, 04:01 PM
It only took 14 years for Carl Peterson to finally draft a "Franchise" Running Back. IM still waiting on a "Franchise" QB and WR....do we have to wait another 14 years for that????

That would be 28 years.

nomad
11-13-2005, 04:07 PM
Anyone who looks at the 2 deep and anything good to say.... is not dealing with reality.

Carls measured success comes from signing free agents, which works in baseball, but in the game of football you inevitably run up against age and baloon payments.

Hungry young talent has been all to rare in Carls reign.

Failure as a result of inneptitude and incestual hirings.

KCChiefsFan88
11-13-2005, 04:08 PM
Who is our WR coach? Because that is probably where a lot of the blame should go.


Charlie Jones, HOF WR

And I don't think he deserves the blame. As a coach you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and the past few offseasons the Chiefs have done nothing to address their obvious lack of talent at the WR position.

KCChiefsFan88
11-13-2005, 04:09 PM
Charlie Jones, HOF WR


Make that Charlie Joiner

Hydrae
11-13-2005, 04:13 PM
Charlie Jones, HOF WR

And I don't think he deserves the blame. As a coach you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit and the past few offseasons the Chiefs have done nothing to address their obvious lack of talent at the WR position.


Being great at your position doesn't necessarily mean you will be a great or even a good coach. I am not saying he is the problem but he has shown he is not the solution.

Kennison has done a decent job for us since he got here. But out of all the other WRs we have seen around here the last decade, none but the one who got away (Horn) has been worth anything. This is a development issue more than anything.

KCChiefsFan88
11-13-2005, 04:20 PM
Being great at your position doesn't necessarily mean you will be a great or even a good coach. I am not saying he is the problem but he has shown he is not the solution.


Before his current job in KC, Joiner was the WRs coach for the Bills from '92-'00, where he oversaw the development of WRs such as Eric Moulds, Andre Reed and Peerless Price.

Not too bad

nomad
11-13-2005, 05:33 PM
Bober, Black, Sampson, Woods, Bartee, Scanlon, Stills, Siavili, McCleon, Wilkerson, Wilson, Parker, Horn, Collins, Huard, Brown, Boe...

Thats 17 guys, 1/3 of the entire roster.

Thats 1/3 of the roster that haven't done crap, have no future, off the top of my head that are for the most part in the 2 deep.

The coaches may suck..... but honestly, look at the roster it sucks more!!

Bitch at the coaching all you want.

This is on Carl.

milkman
11-13-2005, 05:59 PM
Before his current job in KC, Joiner was the WRs coach for the Bills from '92-'00, where he oversaw the development of WRs such as Eric Moulds, Andre Reed and Peerless Price.

Not too bad

Before his stint as WR coach in StL., Al Saunders was the Chiefs WR coach. :hmmm:

milkman
11-13-2005, 06:03 PM
Bober, Black, Sampson, Woods, Bartee, Scanlon, Stills, Siavili, McCleon, Wilkerson, Wilson, Parker, Horn, Collins, Huard, Brown, Boe...

Thats 17 guys, 1/3 of the entire roster.

Thats 1/3 of the roster that haven't done crap, have no future, off the top of my head that are for the most part in the 2 deep.

The coaches may suck..... but honestly, look at the roster it sucks more!!

Bitch at the coaching all you want.

This is on Carl.

Carl is ultimately responsible for the failures of talent acquisition, but I believe that he has always gone after the players that the coaches have lobbied for.

The one prime exception is LJ.

Carl sucks because he wouldn't know a decent coach if he was beaten upside the head with a playbook by one.

BTW, I don't believe that Wilkerson's name belongs in the group that you've listed here.

He is pretty productive.

htismaqe
11-13-2005, 06:06 PM
Carl is ultimately responsible for the failures of talent acquisition, but I believe that he has always gone after the players that the coaches have lobbied for.

The one prime exception is LJ.

Carl sucks because he wouldn't know a decent coach if he was beaten upside the head with a playbook by one.

BTW, I don't believe that Wilkerson's name belongs in the group that you've listed here.

He is pretty productive.

Yep.

Look at the drafts under Marty, Gunther, and Vermeil. Look at the specific players.

Carl's biggest fault is that he hires coaches that can't evaluate talent in some way or another, and then he gives them too much control...

Deberg_1990
11-13-2005, 06:07 PM
Carl is ultimately responsible for the failures of talent acquisition, but I believe that he has always gone after the players that the coaches have lobbied for.

The one prime exception is LJ.

Carl sucks because he wouldn't know a decent coach if he was beaten upside the head with a playbook by one.

BTW, I don't believe that Wilkerson's name belongs in the group that you've listed here.

He is pretty productive.

I beleive we all mentioned this after last season and Whitlock wrote a column about it, the whole scouting department needs to go. Sims, Freman, Siavii and Wilson, do we need any further proof?? Lord, im so sick of talking about how Carl needs to go. Unfortunately, it wont happen until Arrowhead averages about 30,000 a game like it did 20 years ago.

CanadaKC
11-13-2005, 06:15 PM
To add to your point...year-in, year-out... we acquire just enough talent in the FA pool to keep up semi-competitive...then suck at the draft. Our salary cap takes the hit...the FA's end up washed-up or injured (or both)...and we teeter on the edge of the playoffs...or around the .500 mark. We cannot keep the revolving door of FA...it hasn't worked and we are always strapped for cash. We must build through the draft and get a bonafide QBOTF...all good teams in this league have one.

BigRedChief
11-13-2005, 07:41 PM
The bottom line is no playoff wins in 13 years.

3 different Head Coaches

King Carl is the only constant. But hes resigned and will always be the big dog if what we hear the Clark Hunt also likes him.

Mr. Laz
11-13-2005, 07:44 PM
so what your saying is that my obsessive Carl bashing for the last 8 years was warranted?






i expect apologies all-around :harumph:

BigRedChief
11-14-2005, 01:26 PM
We sure could have used this guy the last couple of years
http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2005/1114_large.jpg

MOhillbilly
11-14-2005, 01:31 PM
Carl's biggest fault is that he hires coaches that can't evaluate talent in some way or another, and then he gives them too much control...

yup.

Calcountry
11-14-2005, 01:45 PM
Failing to draft and develop new talent has left this team in the shape it's in today.

Everyome knows the list of busts, the failed development projects.....

Drafting well and making projects into valuable starters is what a good organization does.

KC is a collosal failure in this regard and is now reaping the benefits of no young talent at DT, WR, QB, FB, TE, CB.

Carl and crew can take a bow...Shut up Taco.

Calcountry
11-14-2005, 02:36 PM
The bottom line is no playoff wins in 13 years.

3 different Head Coaches

King Carl is the only constant. But hes resigned and will always be the big dog if what we hear the Clark Hunt also likes him.That is because they REALLY don't give a craphonso about football.

Compare them to that dude from NY that just died. Mora?

Ralphy Boy
11-14-2005, 02:59 PM
As much as I'd like to take the easy route & blame Carl for all of this, the reality is that we were nothing before him and he has done whatever he could to put the best team on the field that he can. He dumped a guy he loved in Gun to get a proven Suberbowl winning coach and has always given our coaches the players they want.

Giving them what they want is his fault.

He has no personnel evaluating talent in his front office. Nobody in our front office knows jack squat about developing or finding talent and that is our biggest problem.

One of his lone choices in not giving the coaching staff what they want has turned out alright in LJ.

We need a new scouting department from top to bottom.

cdcox
11-14-2005, 03:41 PM
We sure could have used this guy the last couple of years
http://i.cnn.net/si/si_online/covers/images/2005/1114_large.jpg

Never would have happened. In the year Palamalou was drafted we had (according to many) the best safety tandem in the business Woods and Wesley :banghead: ROFL

BigRedChief
11-14-2005, 03:42 PM
Since Marty's last year and our last 13-3 season of the 90's "heydays" we are
1998 7-9
1999 9-7
2000 7-9
2001 6-10
2002 8-8
2003 13-3
2004 7-9
= 57 - 55


I'm tired of mediocre. Average. Give me some lean years and a realistic shot at a Super Bowl after those lean years. Lets try it Carl. What do you sAY?

Count Alex's Losses
11-14-2005, 03:43 PM
Winning a SB does not necessarily = lean years

MOhillbilly
11-14-2005, 03:46 PM
Never would have happened. In the year Palamalou was drafted we had (according to many) the best safety tandem in the business Woods and Wesley :banghead: ROFL


well hell you know KC took the best guy available.......Stooges

Thig Lyfe
11-14-2005, 03:48 PM
Can't we just draft Derrick Johnson again?

Deberg_1990
11-14-2005, 03:56 PM
Never would have happened. In the year Palamalou was drafted we had (according to many) the best safety tandem in the business Woods and Wesley :banghead: ROFL


Who the hell was saying that?? In 2002 and 2003 we had the worst ranked defense in the league. They both should have been gone along with about 8 other players off those defenses.

BigRedChief
11-14-2005, 03:58 PM
Who the hell was saying that?? In 2002 and 2003 we had the worst ranked defense in the league. They both should have been gone along with about 8 other players off those defenses.

I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm.

cdcox
11-14-2005, 04:02 PM
Who the hell was saying that?? In 2002 and 2003 we had the worst ranked defense in the league. They both should have been gone along with about 8 other players off those defenses.

Palamalou came out in the April 2003 draft. After the 2003 season, we gave both Wesley and Woods large new contracts. So I'd say CP and DV were of that opinion even at the end of 2003, but many others were saying our safeties were solid through the 2002 season, which would have lead up to the 2003 draft.

Deberg_1990
11-14-2005, 04:06 PM
Palamalou came out in the April 2003 draft. After the 2003 season, we gave both Wesley and Woods large new contracts. So I'd say CP and DV were of that opinion even at the end of 2003, but many others were saying our safeties were solid through the 2002 season, which would have lead up to the 2003 draft.


Yea, CP was about the only guy on the planet at the time that thought that was going to be a good deal. After they way our defense played in 2002 and 2003 I thought no one deserved a long term deal. Remember that these 2 guys started on the playoff team that couldnt force one punt on the Colts. I remember Peter King CNNSI calling out Carl for that horrible deal.

cdcox
11-14-2005, 04:15 PM
Here is a Pete Prisco quote from 2001:

The safety tandem of Jerome Woods and Greg Wesley might be one of the best by season's end. Wesley is the best unknown player in the league, a player who will be in the Pro Bowl shortly.

Certainly most on this board thought the safeties were a strength of the defense at the beginning of the 2003 season.

cdcox
11-14-2005, 04:16 PM
Yea, CP was about the only guy on the planet at the time that thought that was going to be a good deal. After they way our defense played in 2002 and 2003 I thought no one deserved a long term deal. Remember that these 2 guys started on the playoff team that couldnt force one punt on the Colts. I remember Peter King CNNSI calling out Carl for that horrible deal.

I think it was the Colts game that first showed me that Woods and Wesley weren't all that.

Deberg_1990
11-14-2005, 04:21 PM
Here is a Pete Prisco quote from 2001:

The safety tandem of Jerome Woods and Greg Wesley might be one of the best by season's end. Wesley is the best unknown player in the league, a player who will be in the Pro Bowl shortly.

Certainly most on this board thought the safeties were a strength of the defense at the beginning of the 2003 season.

Yea, in 2001 Woods was still decent....he declined rapidly after his injury in 2002. Wesley has never been anything other than serviceable IMO. Hes always had alot of potential but has never been able to fully put it all together.

beavis
11-14-2005, 04:24 PM
Yes, but it's almost over....thank fugging gawd.
How do you figure?

bsp4444
11-14-2005, 04:25 PM
Talent evaluation is the key. How does Jarred Allen come close to setting the franchise rookie sack record, and he isn't even starting until halfway through the season. How does Ryan Lilja not warrant a sniff on our O-Line, and now quite possibly he's going to be playing for the second only undefeated team in the history of the NFL. How is Kris Wilson going to be an offensive "matchup" problem, when he can't even get on the field. I know Siavii was supposed to be a project, but come on man, do something.

Deberg_1990
11-14-2005, 04:29 PM
Drafting, evaulating and developing offensive talent has always been the downfall of the whole Peterson era in KC. IMO its the #1 reason why we never won a Super Bowl and why he needs to be gone like yesterday.

NaptownChief
11-14-2005, 04:31 PM
We got absolutely nothing out of the first three rounds to speak of in the following years:

1998, 1999(Tait with some contribution), 2000(minor contrib from Wesley), 2001, 2002 and 2004. When 6 of the last 8 drafts the first 3 rounds net you absolutely nothing more than a couple decent year from Tait and a couple hard hits from Wesley then you are going to be in deep shit. The top 3 rounds is where most teams build a very good core and we got very, very little.

Brock
11-14-2005, 04:36 PM
I'm tired of mediocre. Average. Give me some lean years and a realistic shot at a Super Bowl after those lean years. Lets try it Carl. What do you sAY?

he is trying. That's the problem.

Mr. Kotter
11-14-2005, 04:40 PM
You are right. Mediocre is all this team has ever been. It's been fun to watch at various times, but good is never great. FA acquisitions seem to be the only thing CP does okay with. The lack of drafting and developmental savvy has always been glaring. And it's all beginning to catch up with them.

CP is in year 17 of the 5 year plan. That says it all.

BigRedChief
11-14-2005, 10:43 PM
he is trying. That's the problem.ROFL

Halfcan
11-14-2005, 11:15 PM
Time for King Carl to retire.