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HemiEd
11-15-2005, 06:54 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/13168626.htm


Posted on Tue, Nov. 15, 2005



CHIEFS STILL COMMITTED TO AIR ATTACK


Passing judgment

KC determined to throw as well as it is running the ball

By ADAM TEICHER

The Kansas City Star


The Chiefs mashed the Buffalo Bills for 150 rushing yards Sunday by using Larry Johnson as a bludgeon against a soft run defense.

At the same time, they committed four turnovers in the passing game in large part because of continuing problems in protecting quarterback Trent Green.

In light of this — and the fact that left tackle Willie Roaf is unlikely to play in Sunday night’s game in Houston — the sensible thing would seem to be to load up Johnson again and watch him work against another porous rushing defense.

To the Chiefs, the prudent thing is to stay the course.

“The thing you don’t do is panic,” coach Dick Vermeil said. “Even as bad as we are, we’re the ninth-ranked offense in the NFL. The trouble is, you keep looking at what we were. We’re not that. We’ll get some of that back.

“You don’t panic, but you’d better adjust. Can we do a better job of adjusting to our problem? Yes we can. The other thing is, the people who have had some problems will continue to get better. There are a lot of snaps in there where things are done awfully well. We know we can run the ball. We’ve got to be able to throw the ball.”

The Chiefs scored only three points in the loss in Buffalo, the first time they failed to reach double-digits since a shutout loss in Oakland to finish the 2002 season. Green was sacked six times, which combined with the turnovers rendered the passing game useless.

While the game was an extreme for the Chiefs’ offense, they’ve struggled most of the season in the passing game. Green was sacked 13 times in the last three weeks.

He’s on pace to go down 41 times, highest total for the Chiefs since 1992.

That’s just counting the sacks, and not the hurries that force bad throws and turnovers. Tackles Jordan Black and John Welbourn are failing in pass blocking and may be playing out of position. Each may be better suited to play guard.

But the Chiefs are determined to keep trying.

“You’re going to have bad days,” tight end Jason Dunn said. “That’s how it comes. You just have to put it behind you. The same if you have a great day. Things happen and everyone wants to blow it up, expose it like maybe it’s not the same type of deal we’ve had before. I don’t think it’s that extreme. It was a bad day at the office. We’ve had a couple of them this year.

“Even though we’ve had some days on offense, it’s nothing to really be concerned about because we do have good players. Let’s get the ball in the players’ hands and let them make plays. Tony Gonzalez, Trent Green, Larry Johnson, Eddie Kennison, Dante Hall. You stick with what works. You can’t jump ship just because something bad happens.”

The Chiefs had a chance to help their beleaguered line in Buffalo by jumping to a sizable lead. That would have taken a lot of pressure off, but the Chiefs scored only three points despite having the ball on the Bills’ side of the field on each of their first five possessions.

“The first thing we can do is stay out of the 2-minute offense,” Vermeil said. “The biggest breakdowns in pass protection were in the last 9 minutes of the game when we went no-huddle. Those were the glaring problems. In the first half, we had a sack and a pressure. We were doing OK. Then we got into the have-to-throw the ball, down-by-11, sit-back-there-and-throw-every-time (mode). Then we had problems. It magnified the problem and makes it seem like you had problems the entire game.

“That’s No. 1. On third down, we just haven’t been doing a real good job. Most of it comes from the time it takes for third-down things to develop.”

The 1-8 Texans are last in the league in run defense, allowing 153 yards per game. Their average of 4.8 yards allowed per carry is worse than every team except Buffalo.

Five players have topped 100 yards against Houston, meaning Johnson should have another big game.

Gaz
11-15-2005, 06:58 AM
Passing is not a bad idea. We cannot afford to be one-dimensional.

But we have to go with shorter drops and quicker release plays, lest Green get killed. Teams are unloading on Green and having no problem getting to him. Therefore, we have to use that against them. More screens and slants, please.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure Green will survive the season behind this OL.

wolfpack0735
11-15-2005, 08:07 AM
we still need to take shots down field but stay with the run. if LJ is going good the play action pass should open up.

jjjayb
11-15-2005, 08:08 AM
We CAN afford to be one dimensional as long as we're playing teams that can't stop us. You see what 2 dimensional got us last Sunday. 3 int's and a fumble.

Warrior5
11-15-2005, 08:13 AM
We CAN afford to be one dimensional as long as we're playing teams that can't stop us. You see what 2 dimensional got us last Sunday. 3 int's and a fumble.

I don't agree...what I saw on Sunday was LJ get worn out in the first half racking up 100+ yards.

We have to pass some; mostly shorter stuff to save Green from medical retirement, but still, once in a while, air it out to keep the DBs honest.

Extra Point
11-15-2005, 08:25 AM
We over established the run in the first half. Warrior 5 is right, and I'll add: screw the screen, throw the short slant-in. Then, that will open it up for either running off-tackle or throwing long along the sideline.

NY CHIEF
11-15-2005, 08:31 AM
We really need sampson to get his ass back at rt. :cuss:

acasas4
11-15-2005, 08:32 AM
Yep. The offense has to be adjusted to compensate for our busted up line. Can't run max protect all the time because our receivers aren't that good. Need to run short drop stuff, set up play action with the run and use that for the deep stuff.

greg63
11-15-2005, 08:38 AM
Passing is not a bad idea. We cannot afford to be one-dimensional.

But we have to go with shorter drops and quicker release plays, lest Green get killed. Teams are unloading on Green and having no problem getting to him. Therefore, we have to use that against them. More screens and slants, please.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure Green will survive the season behind this OL.


This is true. Until we can protect Trent better the Long pass will have to be placed on the back burner.

cdcox
11-15-2005, 08:58 AM
The problem also rests with our recievers; they are not getting open quicky. Abandoning the downfield passing game will only make it worse as defenses can play the short stuff even tighter, jump routes, etc. Also, without a downfield passing game, teams have not reason to keep a safety deep, making the running game that much harder. So you have to keep the downfield game active. You don't have to do it every passing down, but you do have to keep it a viable threat. Do it with playaction passes, provide extra protection, and stay away from obvious passing downs. First and second down have to be successful if we are going to avoid getting Trent killed.

wolfpack0735
11-15-2005, 09:12 AM
i love watching a passing team but i also know you have to be able to run the ball. i just dont want to be martyball again.

jspchief
11-15-2005, 09:31 AM
We missed Priest Holmes in that game. Regardless of how well LJ ran, he got wore out.

If we still had Holmes, we could have ran 45 times like we did against Miami and we would have won that game.

shaneo69
11-15-2005, 09:50 AM
In the first half, we had a sack and a pressure. We were doing OK. Then we got into the have-to-throw the ball, down-by-11, sit-back-there-and-throw-every-time (mode). Then we had problems.

So my question is...when we got past the 50 on our first 5 possessions of the game, and the pass protection was okay at that point, why couldn't we score?

FringeNC
11-15-2005, 10:29 AM
Passing is not a bad idea. We cannot afford to be one-dimensional.

But we have to go with shorter drops and quicker release plays, lest Green get killed. Teams are unloading on Green and having no problem getting to him. Therefore, we have to use that against them. More screens and slants, please.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure Green will survive the season behind this OL.


We did that successfully until Green started throwing it for grabs. Sunday's debacle is mainly a result of Trent Green losing his cool when he has to throw in heavy wind. It seems lame, but I think it's true. Trent Green's worst games as a Chief come when it is windy.

I think the offense will be okay, especially when we get Jordan Black out of there.

Gaz
11-15-2005, 10:40 AM
The problem with Green is a complete and utter lack of pass blocking.

Green’s crappy performance is a direct result of the OL’s ineptitude.

Cause and effect.

xoxo~
Gaz
Understands why Green is nervous.

FAX
11-15-2005, 10:41 AM
This is a "progression" passing offense. That's how it's designed and why Trent Green was selected to run it. He's smart and executes checkdowns extremely well. That's also one of the reasons Tony and Priest have had so many receptions during the DV era.

Unfortunately, without pass protection and time in the pocket, a progression offense cannot function properly. That's what we're seeing. You will never fix this offense without a high quality OL providing time for the QB.

In the meantime, Mr. Gaz's suggestions are excellent in my opinion. Although, I would add that the shotgun formation would also help Trent until the OL problems are corrected. And, if that doesn't work, we should just give the OL shotguns.

FAX THE ANALYST

Demonpenz
11-15-2005, 10:49 AM
i doubt we can even protect green long enough to run a screen

HemiEd
11-15-2005, 11:26 AM
“ The other thing is, the people who have had some problems will continue to get better. There are a lot of snaps in there where things are done awfully well. We know we can run the ball. We’ve got to be able to throw the ball.”




It sounds to me like DV is saying that he has time invested in Black and does not want to waste that investment by giving up on him.

Sure-Oz
11-15-2005, 11:46 AM
Texas def. is a must win

Black Jack Savage
11-15-2005, 12:38 PM
Vermeil is a stubborn, stupid son of a bitch. If the stupid c*cksucker wouldn't have run LJ into the ground in the first half then he could have been more productive over the course of the entire game rather than getting worn out halfway through the third quarter. Also the dumb c*cksucker needs to realize that we have to throw the deep ball, because if we don't every team will do what Philly did to us in the last three quarters--load up on all the short stuff, blitz the dog piss out of us, and jam the LOS which kills our ability to run the ball.

We've got to take our shots down field on first down, not 3 and 6. The stupid motherf*cking playcalling and AS's boneheaded predictability is what bent us over in the shower stall and ripped our anus to the size of a beachball.

FringeNC
11-15-2005, 12:40 PM
Vermeil is a stubborn, stupid son of a bitch. If the stupid c*cksucker wouldn't have run LJ into the ground in the first half then he could have been more productive over the course of the entire game rather than getting worn out halfway through the third quarter. Also the dumb c*cksucker needs to realize that we have to throw the deep ball, because if we don't every team will do what Philly did to us in the last three quarters--load up on all the short stuff, blitz the dog piss out of us, and jam the LOS which kills our ability to run the ball.

We've got to take our shots down field on first down, not 3 and 6. The stupid motherf*cking playcalling and AS's boneheaded predictability is what bent us over in the shower stall and ripped our anus to the size of a beachball.

Yeah, the stupid cocksucker has only led the NFL in offense the last 3 years...

Rausch
11-15-2005, 12:44 PM
It sounds to me like DV is saying that he has time invested in Black and does not want to waste that investment by giving up on him.

That investment is ****ing Enron...

Black Jack Savage
11-15-2005, 12:45 PM
Yeah, the stupid cocksucker also hasn't given three ounces of monkey shit about developing any of our young players and now our asses are in the wind. We don't have a motherf*cking left tackle to save our ass. He'd rather sit around, drink Pinot, and piss and moan about how Trent Hicks and Dante don't get enough accolades then try and construct a winning football team. It shouldn't be a motherf*cking support group, it should be a locker room full of crazy sons of bitches ready to kill anything that gets in their sights.

F*ck I want to punt a kitten.

FringeNC
11-15-2005, 12:51 PM
Yeah, the stupid one who sucks the penis also hasn't given three ounces of monkey shit about developing any of our young players and now our asses are in the wind. We don't have a motherf*cking left tackle to save our ass. He'd rather sit around, drink Pinot, and piss and moan about how Trent Hicks and Dante don't get enough accolades then try and construct a winning football team. It shouldn't be a motherf*cking support group, it should be a locker room full of crazy sons of bitches ready to kill anything that gets in their sights.

F*ck I want to punt a kitten.

Hmmm...I thought he was the crazy sumbitch he worked his players so hard that they were ready to mutiny...

Black Jack Savage
11-15-2005, 12:56 PM
I never said that, and he only works some of his players hard...he doesn't have consistent expectatons for all of them, and when that happens you get inconsistent effort.

It would be different if someone like Hicks was a star, but he's not--he's a mediocre at best defensive end with no ability to rush the passer, and yet Vermeil slobs his cock nonstop. What does that say to mofo's like LJ who have talent, but have to rot on the bench b/c Vermeil is too damned stubborn to put them in? Inconsistent values lead to inconsistent performances.

Black Jack Savage
11-15-2005, 12:57 PM
Black is worthless and should be sent to the gulag somewhere in Northeast Siberia to make big rocks turn into little rocks.

Lurch
11-15-2005, 12:58 PM
Between the tackles, play-action ought to be our first priority the rest of the season. And our Offensive Line gets fixed. Otherwise, we go 7-9 or 8-8, at best.

Coogs
11-15-2005, 12:59 PM
Between the tackles, play-action ought to be our first priority the rest of the season. And our Offensive Line gets fixed. Otherwise, we go 7-9 or 8-8, at best.

Yep!

Lurch
11-15-2005, 01:03 PM
Yep!

I know I'm not the first to say it, but Saunder's affection for plays from deep in the playbook along with his quirky and cutesy playcalling are as much responsible for the slide of the offense as our tackle problems.

Dunit35
11-15-2005, 01:08 PM
we still need to take shots down field but stay with the run. if LJ is going good the play action pass should open up.


Yep, as long as Black can hold on to his block for more than 2 seconds we will be ok.

Calcountry
11-15-2005, 01:08 PM
Passing is not a bad idea. We cannot afford to be one-dimensional.

But we have to go with shorter drops and quicker release plays, lest Green get killed. Teams are unloading on Green and having no problem getting to him. Therefore, we have to use that against them. More screens and slants, please.

xoxo~
Gaz
Not sure Green will survive the season behind this OL.
Can LJ catch the ball?

He has dropped a couple, it absolutely cannot happen if you are going to screen regularly.

Rausch
11-15-2005, 01:10 PM
Can LJ catch the ball?

He has dropped a couple, it absolutely cannot happen if you are going to screen regularly.

A failed play where LJ drops a pass is better than a failed play where Green gets mauled by a 300lb man...

Coogs
11-15-2005, 01:13 PM
I know I'm not the first to say it, but Saunder's affection for plays from deep in the playbook along with his quirky and cutesy playcalling are as much responsible for the slide of the offense as our tackle problems.

I agree. Once we got to the 30 we changed everything. Even took LJ out and ran TR and Brown... :shake:

Calcountry
11-15-2005, 01:16 PM
Vermeil is a stubborn, stupid son of a bitch. If the stupid c*cksucker wouldn't have run LJ into the ground in the first half then he could have been more productive over the course of the entire game rather than getting worn out halfway through the third quarter. Also the dumb c*cksucker needs to realize that we have to throw the deep ball, because if we don't every team will do what Philly did to us in the last three quarters--load up on all the short stuff, blitz the dog piss out of us, and jam the LOS which kills our ability to run the ball.

We've got to take our shots down field on first down, not 3 and 6. The stupid motherf*cking playcalling and AS's boneheaded predictability is what bent us over in the shower stall and ripped our anus to the size of a beachball.Walter Peyton, Barry Sanders, and Marcus Allen didn't tire so easily?

Perhaps LJ isn't all that, but he sure has been acting like he wants it bad.

Maybe you should stay out of the bars, lay off the broads, and get your ass into mean shape so you can produce in the fourth quarter. I am sorry, but a feature back that is worn out in the fourth is a stupid ass excuse.

Rausch
11-15-2005, 01:20 PM
I agree. Once we got to the 30 we changed everything. Even took LJ out and ran TR and Brown... :shake:

That shit needs to stop...

HemiEd
11-15-2005, 01:42 PM
That investment is ****ing Enron...


Yep, I for one think we should cut our losses but that is just me. I hope Trent Green's health is not part of the cost.

greg63
11-16-2005, 12:05 AM
Yep, I for one think we should cut our losses but that is just me. I hope Trent Green's health is not part of the cost.

Ditto, Green is tough but we can't allow him to be knocked around like he was Sunday or he too will make an early exit in the season.