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View Full Version : The all important annual draft positioning thread:


Frankie
11-20-2005, 03:48 PM
Question:

Should we the Chiefs fans want us to win anymore this season or should we relax and not have a coronary for each frustrating loss, knowing that they actually position us toward a top ten pick?

Up until last year's similar thread I was with the "let's play to win" crowd. This year, looking at the following realities I have joined the "let's get a high draft position" folks:

1- AFC features too many solid teams who have almost no injuries and have all pieces in place. Two of them in our own division. Colts, Bengals, Donks, Bolts and Steelers are a formidable array of potential opponents to win through even if we, by some miracle, made it to the playoffs. That's just too much to ask the gimpy Chiefs. The homer in me likes to think that if we didn't have this f@#&ing rash of key injuries, we'd be their equal or better than some.

2- Shields will retire. Roaf and Priest will most likely retire too. We will need to replace them as well as some carry over holes from the past that need to be filled. DL, DB, and WR shortages need to be addressed. A high draft position will help that a lot.

3- I have chalked up next year to rebuilding and growing pains for the young and hopefully talented additional players. Which means we should really target 2007 as the year we should get back inyo competativeness. So let the rebuilding start... TONITE!!!

Deberg_1990
11-20-2005, 03:50 PM
I think we all know how i feel.....

Personally, we should pull a "San Antonio Spurs" ala 1997 and tank the rest of the season. If we work it just right we can posistion ourselves for years to come with a franchise player in next years draft.

beer bacon
11-20-2005, 03:51 PM
I think we should burn down the stadium and hang ourselves if we are big enough of pussies to want to intentionally tank a season to get better draft picks.

JBucc
11-20-2005, 03:53 PM
I think we should burn down the stadium and hang ourselves if we are big enough of pussies to want to intentionally tank a season to get better draft picks.But, we'd still get a high draft pick right?

beer bacon
11-20-2005, 03:54 PM
But, we'd still get a high draft pick right?

That is why it is such a great plan :)

hypersensitiveZO6
11-20-2005, 03:56 PM
We also have to start thinking about a QB. I don't think we have to in this years draft, but remember TG is the same age as Brett Farve. Plus, all the hits TG is taking this year.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 03:58 PM
I think we all know how i feel.....

Personally, we should pull a "San Antonio Spurs" ala 1997 and tank the rest of the season. If we work it just right we can posistion ourselves for years to come with a franchise player in next years draft.
Really the next two years' drafts. I fully expect not to have a shiny record in 06 either, no matter how good an off-season we have.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 03:59 PM
We also have to start thinking about a QB. I don't think we have to in this years draft, but remember TG is the same age as Brett Farve. Plus, all the hits TG is taking this year.
True dat too.

beer bacon
11-20-2005, 04:00 PM
Really the next two years' drafts. I fully expect not to have a shiny record in 06 either, no matter how good an off-season we have.

If we tanked the next two seasons and went 0-23, imagine the great draft picks we could get! I can't wait.

Deberg_1990
11-20-2005, 04:00 PM
We also have to start thinking about a QB. I don't think we have to in this years draft, but remember TG is the same age as Brett Farve. Plus, all the hits TG is taking this year.

Exactly my point......We need to find a way to get ourselves in the Matt Leinert sweepstakes.

Why should we try and squeeze out another 3 or 4 wins this year and end up at 8-8 when we could tank the season and get a franchise QB for the next decade or so???

Frankie
11-20-2005, 04:02 PM
If we tanked the next two seasons and went 0-23, imagine the great draft picks we could get! I can't wait.
Be sarcastic all you want. But drafting consistantly 15th and lower has not helped us get over the hump. We do need to be able to draft a couple of blue chips in the next two first rounds and add solid players in seconds thirds etc.

jiveturkey
11-20-2005, 04:03 PM
What happens if we tank the season and wind up with a bust? Should we then tank the following season and try again?

beer bacon
11-20-2005, 04:06 PM
Be sarcastic all you want. But drafting consistantly 15th and lower has not helped us get over the hump. We do need to be able to draft a couple of blue chips in the next two first rounds and add solid players in seconds thirds etc.

What has not helped us is not drafting good players in the early rounds period. There are plenty of teams that are good drafters that get solid players no matter where they pick. What makes you think we wouldn't get a bust even if we drafted earlier? More importantly, what makes you think it is acceptable to intentionally tank games under any circumstances?

beer bacon
11-20-2005, 04:06 PM
What happens if we tank the season and wind up with a bust? Should we then tank the following season and try again?

What we need to do is tank the next five seasons. With all those blue chip picks we would be unstoppable!

Deberg_1990
11-20-2005, 04:07 PM
What happens if we tank the season and wind up with a bust? Should we then tank the following season and try again?

Well thats the gamble you take i suppose. But like someone mentioned earlier, its hasnt helped us much consistantly drafint anywhere from like 15-28 in the 1st round. Most Super Bowl bound teams have a few years of being horrendous and then picking in the top 10 for 2 or 3 years to get some franchise type players.

Heck, even Vermeils Rams did this. They had Torry Holt, Orlando Pace, Grant Winstrom...all top 10 picks

Dunit35
11-20-2005, 04:07 PM
Come on, if we had people who know how to draft a blue chip, we should be able to do it at any #. Gonzo wasnt a top 10 pick, and look what he has turned out to be. Shields was a 3rd rounder. DJ was #15 in draft. I say lets win some ball games and worry about draft picks when it is time.

beer bacon
11-20-2005, 04:09 PM
Well thats the gamble you take i suppose. But like someone mentioned earlier, its hasnt helped us much consistantly drafint anywhere from like 15-28 in the 1st round. Most Super Bowl bound teams have a few years of being horrendous and then picking in the top 10 for 2 or 3 years to get some franchise type players.

Most good teams consistantly get players that actually become solid starters in the early rounds. It doesn't matter if that is the #4 pick or the 22nd pick.

Dunit35
11-20-2005, 04:11 PM
Most good teams consistantly get players that actually become solid starters in the early rounds. It doesn't matter if that is the #4 pick or the 22nd pick.

Yep, you have to have someone who knows a future star from a bust.

Deberg_1990
11-20-2005, 04:15 PM
Yep, you have to have someone who knows a future star from a bust.


Ill give Carl a little credit, he has picked some great players in the 1st round: DT, Gonzalez, LJ.

His problem is, hes not consistant enough....he follows DT with a Percy Snow and Harvey Williams

He follows a Gonzalez with a Victor Riley ,Slyvester Morris, Ryans Sims..

He needs to have a great run of about 3-4 good years with no busts. If he could ever do that, then we could make a real serious run.

splatbass
11-20-2005, 04:18 PM
You ALWAYS play to win. Any team that doesn't doesn't deserve to be in the NFL.

Flame away, but if you want your team to lose just so you can get better draft picks YOU are a loser. Go watch figure skating or something.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 04:19 PM
What has not helped us is not drafting good players in the early rounds period. There are plenty of teams that are good drafters that get solid players no matter where they pick. What makes you think we wouldn't get a bust even if we drafted earlier? More importantly, what makes you think it is acceptable to intentionally tank games under any circumstances?
What makes you think we will get a bust. The fact is CP's draft record is similar if not better than most NFL GMs. My point is we should position ourselves to have access to the high pick talent. While that does not guarantee a career blue chipper, it gives it a hell of a lot better odds.

hypersensitiveZO6
11-20-2005, 04:20 PM
We are going to have some problems next year, with a possible new head coach, 2 of the best offensive linemen ever gone, and a defense that is improving, but very slowly. The division should be just as strong with San Diego and Denver, and we could easily (though I hope not) have a below 5 game win season.

So my stategy for this years Draft is to probably take an offensive player like a Right Tackle.

Next years Draft is the year we should take a QB. I think if you are going to take a QB, you have to take them pretty high in the Draft.

Also take note this year we have a second round pick, unlike last year.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 04:22 PM
Well thats the gamble you take i suppose. But like someone mentioned earlier, its hasnt helped us much consistantly drafint anywhere from like 15-28 in the 1st round. Most Super Bowl bound teams have a few years of being horrendous and then picking in the top 10 for 2 or 3 years to get some franchise type players.

Heck, even Vermeils Rams did this. They had Torry Holt, Orlando Pace, Grant Winstrom...all top 10 picks
Yep.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 04:24 PM
Come on, if we had people who know how to draft a blue chip, we should be able to do it at any #. Gonzo wasnt a top 10 pick, and look what he has turned out to be. Shields was a 3rd rounder. DJ was #15 in draft. I say lets win some ball games and worry about draft picks when it is time.
Those are exceptions to the rule. All teams have players that fall in that category. Still the odds of picking solid career players are much better at higher draft positions.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 04:26 PM
You ALWAYS play to win. Any team that doesn't doesn't deserve to be in the NFL.

Flame away, but if you want your team to lose just so you can get better draft picks YOU are a loser. Go watch figure skating or something.
Last year I would have agreed with you. This year,... no.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 04:29 PM
Ill give Carl a little credit, he has picked some great players in the 1st round: DT, Gonzalez, LJ.

His problem is, hes not consistant enough....he follows DT with a Percy Snow and Harvey Williams

He follows a Gonzalez with a Victor Riley ,Slyvester Morris, Ryans Sims..

He needs to have a great run of about 3-4 good years with no busts. If he could ever do that, then we could make a real serious run.
Snow, Morris and Sims picks have juries out on them. Early career ending injuries cut the first two short of any expectations. Who knows if they wouldn't have ended up HOF type players. Sims may yet be. I'm still keeping my fingers crossed about him.

Johnson&Johnson
11-20-2005, 04:50 PM
Be sarcastic all you want. But drafting consistantly 15th and lower has not helped us get over the hump. We do need to be able to draft a couple of blue chips in the next two first rounds and add solid players in seconds thirds etc.

I love all the optimicsm about getting a high draft pick by throwing in the towel. But i disagree on burning the stadium. I say we should force Peterson out of office. What good are high draft picks if he and his scouting staff can't draft?

assuming we don't get the top 1 or 2 picks, CP won't know who to draft. Other than Bush and Leinart. There's no sure thing.

Cave Johnson
11-20-2005, 04:59 PM
I just can't get behing losing out. CP has an equal chance of busting with the 5th pick as the 12th, and I'd rather not be stuck with the salary cap hit.

THE KING
11-20-2005, 05:13 PM
We are going to draft Vince Young.

Black Jack Savage
11-20-2005, 05:16 PM
You cannot be serious that Sylvester Morris had the potential to be a Hall of Famer and that Sims still might be. I would dance a f*cking jig if Sims ever made 1 Pro Bowl, in fact I put the odds of hit happening at no less than 10-1.

splatbass
11-20-2005, 05:19 PM
Come on, do you guys really want to be fans of a team that gives up when they are 5-4? You have got to be kidding. They are above .500, what bunch of losers would give up when they have won more games than they've lost?

I can't believe any real fan would seriously consider this.

Tuckdaddy
11-20-2005, 05:28 PM
We won't have to tank the season to get high draft picks. The offense is doing that for us.

jspchief
11-20-2005, 05:31 PM
I can't believe anyone would actually want their team to start losing. That's f*cking pathetic.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 05:43 PM
You cannot be serious that Sylvester Morris had the potential to be a Hall of Famer and that Sims still might be.
We don't know for sure. Do we?

Kclee
11-20-2005, 05:46 PM
But drafting consistantly 15th and lower has not helped us get over the hump.


Oh, so you mean like picks like LJ, and DJ '(picked on/after 15)the last few years aren't as good as Sims(picked 6th). Yeah, I see where you're going with this.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 05:47 PM
Come on, do you guys really want to be fans of a team that gives up when they are 5-4? You have got to be kidding. They are above .500, what bunch of losers would give up when they have won more games than they've lost?

I can't believe any real fan would seriously consider this.
Again, I'm normally on the win-all-we-can bandwagon. But I see a very doable rebuilding ahead, and I don't want it to stretch into more than 2 years. Hence, let's start drafting high. I won't have a cow if we lose tonight to the lowly Texans. I'll just see it as one draft position higher.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 05:48 PM
Oh, so you mean like picks like LJ, and DJ '(picked on/after 15)the last few years aren't as good as Sims(picked 6th). Yeah, I see where you're going with this.
You haven't read my other posts on this thread, have you?

Kclee
11-20-2005, 05:54 PM
You haven't read my other posts on this thread, have you?


Yeah, you want to play the odds in the draft (higher vs lower) rather than play the odds of us going to the playoffs when after tonight we could be 6-4.

DaKCMan AP
11-20-2005, 06:01 PM
Early picks do not equal success.

The Cardinals have drafted in the top 10 8 out of the last 10 years.

From 1993 through 2003 the Bengals drafted in the top 10 10 out of 12 years including the #1 overall three times and 7 times in the top 5.

Both draft(ed) early often and didn't do anything with it.

The Donkeys haven't drafted in the top 10 in the last 12 years.

Since winning the SB in 1996 the Pack have drafted once in the top 10 and that was pick #10. That pick was also a bust (Jamal Reynolds).

Both didn't draft early and had success.

It's not when you draft, it's how you draft, develop your players, and use free agency.

Frankie
11-20-2005, 06:09 PM
Yeah, you want to play the odds in the draft (higher vs lower) rather than play the odds of us going to the playoffs when after tonight we could be 6-4.
Believe me. My number one choice is going 12-4. But that requires a lot of breaks going our way as well as Roaf, Sims and Priest coming back immediately and in top football shape. We all know that last one is out of the question.

splatbass
11-20-2005, 06:15 PM
Again, I'm normally on the win-all-we-can bandwagon. But I see a very doable rebuilding ahead, and I don't want it to stretch into more than 2 years. Hence, let's start drafting high. I won't have a cow if we lose tonight to the lowly Texans. I'll just see it as one draft position higher.

If you have a team made up of players that give up when they are 5-4 then all the high draft picks in the world won't turn those losers into winners. To win in the NFL you have to have a killer instinct, not a give up because things aren't as good as they could be instinct.

Your plan is a recipe for losing, next year and every year after.

You want to win? You PLAY TO WIN ALL THE ****ING TIME. Period. There is no other answer.

Kclee
11-20-2005, 06:15 PM
Believe me. My number one choice is going 12-4. But that requires a lot of breaks going our way as well as Roaf, Sims and Priest coming back immediately and in top football shape. We all know that last one is out of the question.



LJ fills in just fine for Priest. Roaf and Sims will hopefully be back for the Denver game. Inbetween we get NE at home. We can beat SD at Arrowhead too. The season could come down to the last game against Cinci to get in the playoffs. There is still plenty of hope to be had.

splatbass
11-20-2005, 06:16 PM
Did New England give up when they were 4-4? No. Because they are winners, not losers.