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View Full Version : How Do You Stop The Denver Bootleg?


petegz28
12-01-2005, 09:17 PM
Would like to hear how people think you shut down Denver's ball-conservative offense?

Saulbadguy
12-01-2005, 09:18 PM
Break Jake Plummers ****ing leg.

Rain Man
12-01-2005, 09:19 PM
I like Saul's idea.


The way to do it is to send the linebackers on a straight-in blitz every once in a while, so they can nail him the second he spins around like a girlish little ballerina.

JohninGpt
12-01-2005, 09:19 PM
Kick anyone wearing blue right square in the nutz everytime they touch the ball. That'll make em think twice the next time.

petegz28
12-01-2005, 09:21 PM
I say play a contain Defense like we would against Gannon or Vick and force Jake to pass from the pocket. He makes his bad decisions when guys are covered not when he is being pass rushed and can scramble.

JohnnyV13
12-01-2005, 09:21 PM
Exactly....send the linebacker/corner blitz where they like to bootleg. If the blitz isn't on...task that DE to head upfield even if the flow is the other way.

Taco John
12-01-2005, 09:21 PM
I like Saul's idea.


The way to do it is to send the linebackers on a straight-in blitz every once in a while, so they can nail him the second he spins around like a girlish little ballerina.



That's pretty much how to do it... Except that if Plummer senses the lineback coming in on a bootleg destroying blitz, he audibles to a run. Strong side linebackers aren't so great at concealing the blitz.

petegz28
12-01-2005, 09:22 PM
I bet Rod Smith doesn't get a 20 yard cushion this time either.

Rain Man
12-01-2005, 09:22 PM
Kick anyone wearing blue right square in the nutz everytime they touch the ball. That'll make em think twice the next time.

That would lead to a lot of encroachment penalties, though.

chief52
12-01-2005, 09:23 PM
Break Jake Plummers ****ing leg.

While breaking his leg may be a bit severe...it is pretty much what needs to be done. They need to wack Plummer and make him pay for carrying the ball. If the Chiefs knock Plummer crazy the first couple of times he tries the bootleg, you will not see him try it again. Gotta make him pay the price for being a ball carrier.

Rain Man
12-01-2005, 09:24 PM
That's pretty much how to do it... Except that if Plummer senses the lineback coming in on a bootleg destroying blitz, he audibles to a run. Strong side linebackers aren't so great at concealing the blitz.

I guarantee that Denver will know exactly who's blitzing, and from where, on every play. And that at some point during the game, the top of my head will explode as I scream, "Disguise the blitz, you ninnies! Disguise the blitz!"

JohninGpt
12-01-2005, 09:24 PM
That would lead to a lot of encroachment penalties, though.
Especially if you do it everytime the center reaches down to grab the ball.

Rain Man
12-01-2005, 09:25 PM
Especially if you do it everytime the center reaches down to grab the ball.

Yep. That was my thinking.

Of course, after the first six times, it might just lead to delay of game penalties as Tom Nalen refuses to line up.

chrisdel
12-01-2005, 09:26 PM
I guarantee that Denver will know exactly who's blitzing, and from where, on every play. And that at some point during the game, the top of my head will explode as I scream, "Disguise the blitz, you ninnies! Disguise the blitz!"

We do a terrible job of disguising the blitz, with Gunther as DC and when we had Robinson.

listopencil
12-01-2005, 09:32 PM
If they blitz the spot that they think Plummer is going to roll out to, the run to the other side will absolutely destroy them. With a D that doesn't disguise the blitz very well you're talking seven points every time. Someone on The Planet made a good analogy when they called it the NFL version of the option.

Deberg_1990
12-01-2005, 09:32 PM
I bet Rod Smith doesn't get a 20 yard cushion this time either.

Why does he always seem to be wide open with that 20 yard cushion every time we play them??

Rausch
12-01-2005, 09:35 PM
We do a terrible job of disguising the blitz, with Gunther as DC and when we had Robinson.

Really?

That why I saw 2 DB's and a LB walk up to the line to blitz, then after the snap one DB blitzed and the other two dropped back into coverage?

Numerous times we looked like we were going to bring damn near everyone only to back off into short zones...

petegz28
12-01-2005, 09:35 PM
Why does he always seem to be wide open with that 20 yard cushion every time we play them??


Cause we never had 2 man-up corners. Unless Gunther calls a soft zone Surtain and Warfield are going to be all over him the whole game.

chief52
12-01-2005, 09:35 PM
We do a terrible job of disguising the blitz, with Gunther as DC and when we had Robinson.

I do not understand that either. When you take the element of surprise out of the blitz...you are going to be in a terrible defense. Even the worst NFL QB can pick you apart when he knows exactly what is coming.

stevieray
12-01-2005, 09:36 PM
DE's not biting on the misdirection.

Deberg_1990
12-01-2005, 09:53 PM
To be honest, ive watched alot of Denver games this year and its not just the Chiefs that bite. Every team they play against bites on it. They are DAMN good at the execution and they sell it with a strong running game.

tk13
12-01-2005, 09:54 PM
Stop the freaking run, get a lead, so he has to stand back in the pocket and start slinging it.... :)

milkman
12-01-2005, 09:57 PM
Everyone has to maintain discipline and responsibility.

Jared Allen and Eric Hicks, or whoever is at DE, must maintain oustside containment.

DTs have to stay at home.

LBs have to pick up the RB out of the backfield in pass coverage, and corners have to man up on WRs.

If you blitz, it needs to come from the middle, i.e. Kawika and/or Sammy.

Halfcan
12-01-2005, 10:00 PM
nice post sidewinder, I have to agree.

Psyko Tek
12-01-2005, 10:04 PM
We do a terrible job of disguising the blitz, with Gunther as DC and when we had Robinson.

with Gun it ain't a terrible job of disguiein'

he just don't care

we are coming to kick your azz....
try and stop me

I remember one game where he had them beat and kept sendin' 8, just to let them now they were beat

ENDelt260
12-01-2005, 10:05 PM
While breaking his leg may be a bit severe

B&

Joe Seahawk
12-01-2005, 10:10 PM
How Do You Stop The Denver Bootleg?

Would like to hear how people think you shut down Denver's ball-conservative offense?


Hi Gunther.. Why is your handle petegz28 ? :)

cdcox
12-01-2005, 10:20 PM
Really?

That why I saw 2 DB's and a LB walk up to the line to blitz, then after the snap one DB blitzed and the other two dropped back into coverage?

Numerous times we looked like we were going to bring damn near everyone only to back off into short zones...


Exactly. I don't think Gunther tries to disguise the blitz too much because half the time he shows it, its a fake. The idea is to create confusion.

Denver did a nice job on the Cowboys a coulple times on Thanksgiving. They put like 9 guy on the LOS, rushed 5-6 and dropped the rest into zones. It was very effective because of the confusion it cause for the OL line to know who was blocking whom.

PastorMikH
12-01-2005, 10:27 PM
DE's not biting on the misdirection.


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!


People keeping their assignments (Mainly the DE and OLB) and not biting on the fakes.

Valiant
12-01-2005, 10:34 PM
First to stop the bootleg..

You stop the outside runs from the runningback..

Hold contain, and force everything inside rb's and qb's..

Then bring pressure from the outside mostly the left side..

Fans need to keep loud the entire time while donks on O...

jspchief
12-01-2005, 11:24 PM
The biggest responsibility is on the DEs to not over commit to the play fake. If we're relying on a LB to get to Plummer, we're already beat because that LB has to leave his man/zone to pursue Plummer, leaving an open receiver. If the DE can keep Plummer forced back into the pocket, we'll have success.

The reason Denver does it so well is it's a perfect compliment to their run game. Their running plays force the backside D-linemen to pursue so they can plug the cutback lanes that Denver thrives on. If the DE goes upfield keeping contain on the QB, he has to leave a cutback lane open. If he closes the gaps, he leaves Plummer open to roll out.

My personal opinion is the best solution is to hit him every time he rolls out. Take your chances with a late hit or hit OB, but make sure that every time he leaves the safety of the pocket, he takes punishment. Hopefully the result will be hurried throws to avoid more hits.

B_Ambuehl
12-02-2005, 01:30 AM
Without a running game the bootleg doesn't work. Without excessive "fear" of the running game by the front 7 it doesn't work very well either. KC has been succeptible to reverses for the same reason they're succeptible to the bootleg. Lots of guys on the weak side overcommiting to the run.

redsurfer11
12-02-2005, 06:52 AM
Everyone has to maintain discipline and responsibility.

Jared Allen and Eric Hicks, or whoever is at DE, must maintain oustside containment.

DTs have to stay at home.

LBs have to pick up the RB out of the backfield in pass coverage, and corners have to man up on WRs.

If you blitz, it needs to come from the middle, i.e. Kawika and/or Sammy.


Exactly what has to be done, The DE's job is to contain the play first, then go after the person with the ball. If Allen/Hicks do the first part of their job, there won't be any successful bootleg plays. Allen has a tendency to drive inside and could be prone to the bootleg.He must stick to his first resposibility and then go for the sacking of the QB.

King_Chief_Fan
12-02-2005, 07:11 AM
What's wrong with making a late hit breaking the sob's leg?

Ari Chi3fs
12-02-2005, 07:44 AM
anyone who breaks Jakes Leg gets a bottle of Dicks Wine?

Mile High Mania
12-02-2005, 08:04 AM
You don't want that... then you get BVP. I can't believe the backup is VanPelt.

Postal_clone
12-02-2005, 08:11 AM
whoever can get close enough to jake on the bootleg whether he throws the ball or not, needs to plant his ass hard in the yellow grungy turf of Arrowhead stadium.

htismaqe
12-02-2005, 08:15 AM
This is the one case where the old "read-and-react" defense is actually the best idea.

Maintain gap responsibilities instead of crashing upfield.

It's the only way to contain it.

htismaqe
12-02-2005, 08:26 AM
This is the one case where the old "read-and-react" defense is actually the best idea.

Maintain gap responsibilities instead of crashing upfield.

It's the only way to contain it.

StcChief
12-02-2005, 08:36 AM
This is the one case where the old "read-and-react" defense is actually the best idea.

Maintain gap responsibilities instead of crashing upfield.

It's the only way to contain it.

Yes.

If you can't disguise it.

Keep your head and maintain the gaps.

He will stop doing it, if contain is there.

Make him throw from the pocket where he sucks at it.

morphius
12-02-2005, 08:38 AM
Your best hope is that instead of crashing in the DE on the opposite side of the field runs straight back and clobbers the QB, while the LB goes and lays a nice little chuck on anyone trying to sneak out of the back field.

Rukdafaidas
12-02-2005, 08:41 AM
Allen and Hicks should use an outside pass rush on every play. Bell and Johnson should crash the between the OT and OG's.
Mitchell has the toughest responsibility, he'll need to react to which side the ball is going. In Denver's offense, with all of their cutback runs, it's not always easy to tell which way the ball is going. But, he'll need to be there to help Johnson and Bell, because they'll be fighting off either a pulling OL or a FB or both.
So, I would either run a 3-4 and have the RILB help Bell and the LILB help Johnson. Or, I would cheat Knight close to the line and do the same thing. I would make Jake beat me deep with only Wesley there for CB support.

trndobrd
12-02-2005, 09:19 AM
Would like to hear how people think you shut down Denver's ball-conservative offense?

jspchief
12-02-2005, 09:28 AM
The problem is Denver's running game almost forces you to pursue, because all of their blocking schemes are designed to get the defense moving in one direction. That's when the RB makes his single cutback into the lane created by the backside tackle/guard cutblocking. If the DE stays home, he'll leave a gap off tackle or guard from the shifting line.

Their run game combines perfectly with a mobile QB on the bootleg. A defense that promotes swarming to the ball carrier is an easy target.

Probably the most important thing is for Allen and Hicks to concentrate more on where the ball is than on getting upfield for sacks. If they don't buy the fake, they won't be out of position to defend the boot.

Rain Man
12-02-2005, 09:43 AM
You don't want that... then you get BVP. I can't believe the backup is VanPelt.


I've been wondering this for a while. Is he by any chance the son of former Giants LB Brad Van Pelt?

Gaz
12-02-2005, 09:55 AM
Discipline.

xoxo~
Gaz
Has seen precious little of that against Denver.

Mr. Laz
12-02-2005, 10:15 AM
Really?

That why I saw 2 DB's and a LB walk up to the line to blitz, then after the snap one DB blitzed and the other two dropped back into coverage?

Numerous times we looked like we were going to bring damn near everyone only to back off into short zones...
we have done a better job the last couple weeks.


we have now started to fake the blitz more and that makes our real blitz alot more difficult to read.

it helps

Mr. Laz
12-02-2005, 10:22 AM
This is the one case where the old "read-and-react" defense is actually the best idea.

Maintain gap responsibilities instead of crashing upfield.

It's the only way to contain it.
i don't agree ... if you read and react it's death against the donks offense.

penetration by the defensive tackles is the best way to stop the donks.

that stops the cut back run, which allows your front side guys to attack.

without the cutback run their sweep doesn't work

without the sweep the bootleg isn't work jack and the roll out pass isn't as effective.


inside penetration screws with their entire offense imo.


discipline is important too

Iowanian
12-02-2005, 10:23 AM
Blitz his ass with Sapp from that side, have the DE's contain instead of crashing down the line. I think putting in the 3-4 package where Denver runs the boot would put more outside speed on the field and help too.

The best way I can think of is to control the running game, get a lead and make that bidge throw. Let him try to audible out of it with a rocking arrowhead, and hope someone hits him so effin hard snot bubbles are coming out of his ears, after they take his sideways helmet off his head to get the salts to him.

Just once.....I'd like to see a LB or DE read the Boot correctly and just Bury that bidge.

Pitt Gorilla
12-02-2005, 10:30 AM
Really?

That why I saw 2 DB's and a LB walk up to the line to blitz, then after the snap one DB blitzed and the other two dropped back into coverage?

Numerous times we looked like we were going to bring damn near everyone only to back off into short zones...I agree. I think our D is starting to fake out the fans.

Mr. Laz
12-02-2005, 10:37 AM
Blitz his ass with Sapp from that side, have the DE's contain instead of crashing down the line. I think putting in the 3-4 package where Denver runs the boot would put more outside speed on the field and help too.

The best way I can think of is to control the running game, get a lead and make that bidge throw. Let him try to audible out of it with a rocking arrowhead, and hope someone hits him so effin hard snot bubbles are coming out of his ears, after they take his sideways helmet off his head to get the salts to him.

Just once.....I'd like to see a LB or DE read the Boot correctly and just Bury that bidge.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=49823&stc=1

vailpass
12-02-2005, 10:45 AM
I've been wondering this for a while. Is he by any chance the son of former Giants LB Brad Van Pelt?



11 Bradlee Van Pelt, Quarterback

Height: 6' 2"
Weight: 220 lbs.
College: Colorado State
Born: in Owosso, Mich.
Acquired: D7-04
Pro Year: 1st
Year with Broncos: 1st
NFL Games Played/Started: 0/0
Postseason: 0/0


He is the son of Brad Van Pelt, an All-America linebacker at Michigan State who later played in the NFL with the N.Y. Giants (1973-83), L.A. Raiders (1984-85) and Cleveland Browns (1986), for whom he played for against the Broncos in the 1986 AFC Championship Game when John Elway engineered “The Drive.” Bradlee Van Pelt was born July 3, 1980, in Owosso, Mich., and resides in Denver.

http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=498&contentID=2442

King_Chief_Fan
12-02-2005, 12:03 PM
why don't the Chiefs do what they did last year when they kicked the Donkey's buckets 45-17?:shrug:

Calcountry
12-02-2005, 12:15 PM
The biggest responsibility is on the DEs to not over commit to the play fake. If we're relying on a LB to get to Plummer, we're already beat because that LB has to leave his man/zone to pursue Plummer, leaving an open receiver. If the DE can keep Plummer forced back into the pocket, we'll have success.

The reason Denver does it so well is it's a perfect compliment to their run game. Their running plays force the backside D-linemen to pursue so they can plug the cutback lanes that Denver thrives on. If the DE goes upfield keeping contain on the QB, he has to leave a cutback lane open. If he closes the gaps, he leaves Plummer open to roll out.

My personal opinion is the best solution is to hit him every time he rolls out. Take your chances with a late hit or hit OB, but make sure that every time he leaves the safety of the pocket, he takes punishment. Hopefully the result will be hurried throws to avoid more hits.I agree, this chit is personal, one late hit, early in the game is in order.

BigMeatballDave
12-02-2005, 12:19 PM
Would like to hear how people think you shut down Denver's ball-conservative offense?
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000ALCDL8.01-A2H5GLMI4TYM1E._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

ChiefsCountry
12-02-2005, 12:21 PM
Its simple really, ends play contain like they are suppose to have learned from middle school, high school, etc. Its not hard, dont rush like a crazy wild man every play, just play smart and it will come right to you.

Calcountry
12-02-2005, 12:24 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=49823&stc=1The tight end on the right side would release his block, and get behind the line for a quick dump off pass, with Jake jumping up to dump it, just before he is creamed to the ground.

Its a nightmare.

funk monkey
12-02-2005, 12:35 PM
I like the break Jake plummers leg one...we just need that beast jared allen to do what he does best, and it will be no problem

Mr. Laz
12-02-2005, 06:02 PM
The tight end on the right side would release his block, and get behind the line for a quick dump off pass, with Jake jumping up to dump it, just before he is creamed to the ground.

Its a nightmare.
that's why the DE doesn't rush up field ... i show him jamming the tightend like a blocker.

Count Alex's Losses
12-02-2005, 06:05 PM
I hold the opinion that if Denver has the opportunity to run the bootleg, we've already lost this battle. If we let them start running the ball effectively, that opens up the bootleg.

Stop the run, get a lead, and the bootleg will disappear. No one was bitching about the bootleg after the last Bronco game in Arrowhead.

Calcountry
12-02-2005, 06:07 PM
that's why the DE doesn't rush up field ... i show him jamming the tightend like a blocker.That would work if he could keep him from releasing.

Our cover guys can't get beat though.

JBucc
12-02-2005, 06:08 PM
I don't know shoot Plummer in the head when he gets off the bus or something. But I was thinking wouldn't it be cool if we had someone like a maintinence guy load up the Donks gatorade with laxative

13and3
12-02-2005, 07:03 PM
stomp a mud hole in his ass!!!

HemiEd
12-02-2005, 07:17 PM
I am very tired of Shannahan's cheating and doing anything to win. On the Monday night game this year, he kept his backups coming to hit Trent after the whistle had blown. They got called for one out of at least five late hits IIRC. I would like to see us do the same, they took Trent out of the first game.

Rain Man
12-02-2005, 07:26 PM
I have these fantasies of Plummer spinning to turn around right after DJ or Bell or Allen or someone is launching themselves to hammer him. I want to see something like the hit that Leslie O'Neal laid on Jeff George a few years back, where the play ends with the Chiefs holding the ball and the quarterback writhing on the ground.

Skip Towne
12-02-2005, 07:42 PM
The way to stop Plummer is to decorate his uniform with pretty brown and green stains. Keep him in the pocket and make him beat us with that rifle arm of his.