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View Full Version : US LOSING hearts and minds of Arab World...


memyselfI
12-02-2005, 06:29 PM
Incase there was any doubt that the war in Iraq is having the OPPOSITE of the desired effect, a new poll indicates it is.

Good thing we are spending 2100+ American lives and billions and billions of dollars to make democracy more attractive to the Arab world. :rolleyes:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051202/wl_nm/mideast_usa_poll_dc

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Arab nations are acutely suspicious of the Bush administration's "democracy" agenda in the Middle East and believe the U.S. invasion of Iraq has made the region less secure, said a poll released on Friday.

The poll, conducted in six Arab countries in October, found 78 percent of respondents thought there was more terrorism because of the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, with four out of five saying the war had brought less peace to the region.

Asked which countries posed the biggest threat to their nations, a majority chose Israel and the United States.

"The one fascinating outcome of this study is that the respondents view the United States and its policies through the prism of Iraq and Israel," said Professor Shibley Telhami of the University of Maryland, who conducted the poll with Zogby International in Jordan, Lebanon, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the United Arab Emirates.

Rather than being a model to inspire Arab nations to adopt democratic goals, Telhami said respondents felt the opposite was true of the United States, whose image has been tarnished by scandals involving abuse by U.S. forces of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and at a U.S. base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The Bush administration has made spreading democracy in the Middle East a key foreign policy goal and the State Department has appointed a special envoy, Karen Hughes, to improve the U.S. image abroad, especially in Islamic nations. During her overseas trips, however, Hughes has been greeted with Muslim anger over the U.S.-led invasion in Iraq.

In the new poll, 69 percent of those surveyed doubted that spreading democracy was the real U.S. objective. Oil, protecting Israel, dominating the region and weakening the Muslim world were seen as U.S. goals.

"America's presence in Iraq is seen as a negative. It is scaring people about American intentions and having the opposite intended impact on Arab public opinion," Telhami said in an interview.

FRANCE AS SUPERPOWER

More than half -- 58 percent -- said Iraq was less democratic than before the war and three of four said Iraqis were worse off.

Asked from a list of countries which they would like to be the superpower, the first choice was France with 21 percent, followed by China with 13 percent, Pakistan and Germany tied with 10 percent, Britain with 7 percent, the United States with 6 percent and finally Russia with 5 percent.

"It's troubling for the United States that people are rooting for other countries in this global (superpower) competition," Telhami said at a news conference.

France, which opposed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, was also seen as the country where people had the most freedom and its President Jacques Chirac, was the leader most admired by respondents.

The poll was taken before an outbreak of riots in France by disaffected youths, many of them Muslims of North African ethnicity, which provoked Muslim criticism of conditions for minorities in France.

Israeli President Ariel Sharon, U.S. President George W. Bush and British Prime Minister Tony Blair were the most disliked by those polled.

On Iran, most of the respondents said the U.S. adversary should have the right to a nuclear program and international pressure should cease while 21 percent said it should be pressured to stop its nuclear ambitions.

Interviewers polled 800 people each from Egypt, Morocco and Saudi Arabia; 500 each were questioned in Jordan and Lebanon and 217 were interviewed in the United Arab Emirates.

The margin of error was 3.5 percentage points to 4.5 percentage points in all the countries, except for the United Arab Emirates, where it was plus or minus 6.8 points.

recxjake
12-02-2005, 06:34 PM
when you have a half glass of water, is it half full, or half empty? I think I might know...

memyselfI
12-02-2005, 06:40 PM
when you have a half glass of water, is it half full, or half empty? I think I might know...

It depends, on the glass and the beverage...there are no one size fits all answers for this situation.

And do you have a way of refuting sourced articles other than attack the messenger or deflect from the message?

recxjake
12-02-2005, 06:47 PM
It depends, on the glass and the beverage...there are no one size fits all answers for this situation.

And do you have a way of refuting sourced articles other than attack the messenger or deflect from the message?

yes i do have a way of refuting sourced articles other than attack the messenger or deflect from the message..... I'm just amazed by the ammount of negativity you seem to represent.... I couldn't imagine living my life constantly trying to show how wrong someone is... In my opinion your glass is half empty and I'm sorry you are such a pesimistic person.

now to your article.... if i was an arab country i would be a little nervous too if if my neighbor was full of crazy arabs... that being said I would probably do somthing about it by reporting suspicious activities and things like that.... also a lot of these countries have people in them calling for political reform and that is never easy either... the middle east in the middle of a change to freedom, sadly the evil rulers who run some of these countries don't like giving up their power.

jAZ
12-02-2005, 06:52 PM
I'm just amazed by the ammount of negativity you seem to represent....
You do realize that you too similarly amaze people with your kool-aide drinking posts every day, right?

recxjake
12-02-2005, 06:53 PM
You do realize that you too similarly amaze people with your kool-aide drinking posts every day, right?

i hate kool-aide, but my posts are both positive and negative

memyselfI
12-02-2005, 06:59 PM
yes i do have a way of refuting sourced articles other than attack the messenger or deflect from the message..... I'm just amazed by the ammount of negativity you seem to represent.... I couldn't imagine living my life constantly trying to show how wrong someone is... In my opinion your glass is half empty and I'm sorry you are such a pesimistic person.

now to your article.... if i was an arab country i would be a little nervous too if if my neighbor was full of crazy arabs... that being said I would probably do somthing about it by reporting suspicious activities and things like that.... also a lot of these countries have people in them calling for political reform and that is never easy either... the middle east in the middle of a change to freedom, sadly the evil rulers who run some of these countries don't like giving up their power.

If I'm 'pessimistic' about this it's because beginning 9/12/01 I cautioned against using a military attack for means that would be counter productive to our long term security. When people were screaming for revenge I was asking for taking time and patience to plan out a strategy that would make the US and the WORLD safer and that any knee jerk reaction, especially war, would be a long term mistake.

So imagine my frustration when the US invaded Afghanistan. Even though I didn't agree with their methods, I could understand their need to remove the Taliban. But I also believed that action should be isolated and should be the end of war and NOT the beginning...

so imagine my dispair when DUHbya started beating the war drum and Iraq was in his sights. FROM THE BEGINNING, I've warned about how the Iraqi people, because of their history and their innate cultural make-up, would NOT tolerate the US in their internal affairs even if it was allegedly for their own good. I also warned how this action would NOT spread democracy in the Arab world and how the action would backfire long term.

It is no fun being correct in this instance. It has been like watching a train wreck that was approaching from a mile away. It's been disheartening. You see it as pessimism. I see it as predictable reality.

jAZ
12-02-2005, 07:06 PM
i hate kool-aide, but my posts are both positive and negative
Yes, but they are universally filled with empty GOP talking points... to the point where you have become an amazing spectacle.

The fact that you seem to only read and post NewsMax articles as thread topics, but everytime you are called on their bogus nature, you fall back to "yeah, I posted this because I thought it was funny".

WilliamTheIrish
12-02-2005, 07:11 PM
Paraphrasing here....

"It's too long!!!!! (to read)

EDIT: forgot that should be all CAPS!!!!!!!!

patteeu
12-02-2005, 08:05 PM
when you have a half glass of water, is it half full, or half empty? I think I might know...

It depends on whether it is a glass served by a Republican or a democrat.

Ugly Duck
12-03-2005, 10:19 AM
Here's a big problem.... about 80% of Iraqis see us as occupiers instead of as liberators. That portends the potential for a bottomless insugency. Possibly millions of Iraqis to draw upon to fight the occupiers. Maybe they'll run out of artillery shells for IEDs, but they might not run out of insurgents no matter how many we kill.

Hey... is there an estimate on how many shells disappeared from the ammo dumps during the looting phase?

patteeu
12-03-2005, 10:48 AM
Here's a big problem.... about 80% of Iraqis see us as occupiers instead of as liberators. That portends the potential for a bottomless insugency. Possibly millions of Iraqis to draw upon to fight the occupiers. Maybe they'll run out of artillery shells for IEDs, but they might not run out of insurgents no matter how many we kill.

Hey... is there an estimate on how many shells disappeared from the ammo dumps during the looting phase?

As the Iraqis develop the capability, they will become the face of the counter-insurgency and the presence of the US forces will diminish both because actual numbers will be reduced and because those that remain will play less visible roles.

No matter what you might think of yourself, you don't understand war better than Don Rumsfeld and General Casey.

Ugly Duck
12-03-2005, 06:32 PM
As the Iraqis develop the capability, they will become the face of the counter-insurgency...

No matter what you might think of yourself, you don't understand war better than Don Rumsfeld and General Casey.As the 20% that see us as liberators develop the capability, they will become the counter-insurgency against the 80% that see us as occupiers? No, we are promoting democracy in Iraq. And most of the the population considers us to be occupiers instead of liberators. Iraqis will fight our troops as long as we occupy their country. If Rummy is successful, we are paying and dying for Tehran's Islamic Revolution to take power in Iraq. You may be one of the few that has confidence in Rummy, but the majority of Americans see the entire cabal as a bunch of liars that can't be trusted.