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Ralphy Boy
12-05-2005, 08:50 AM
Has Gonzo been passed by Gates?
Clearly this season he has, Tony's play seems to have fallen off, but has Shockey even passed him?

NAME REC YDS AVG YPG LNG TD FUM LST
Antonio Gates TE, SDG 63 874 13.9 79.5 38 8 0 0
J. Shockey TE, NYG 50 733 14.7 61.1 59 7 0 0
Tony Gonzalez TE, KAN 59 643 10.9 53.6 36 2 0 0

Amnorix
12-05-2005, 08:59 AM
Gates has passed him, I think that much is clear. I think, as of right now, they're probably about equally good, but since Gates is much younger I'd give him the nod if i had the proverbial "which one would you want" question.

I hate Shockey, so I won't give him the nod.

No stats on Crumpler?

ChiefsfaninPA
12-05-2005, 09:01 AM
Gates is only better this year. He will have to have the consistensy that Tony G has had for all of these years before this question is even valid. Two years doesn't make a HOFer.

Chiefnj
12-05-2005, 09:01 AM
It's tough to compare them this year. Did the other teams have a rash of injuries and suspensions on the OL that forced the OC to keep the TE's on the line to block so Eli, Drew or Michael didn't get killed?

John_Wayne
12-05-2005, 09:04 AM
From year to year these 3 TEs will each occupy the top spot for that year. However, when their respective careers are over, Tony will have better stats than Shockey and Gates. Shockey will have a shorter career than Tony. Gates will fade. Tony will keep on going and going, steady like the energizer bunny.

Skip Towne
12-05-2005, 09:05 AM
I'd go with Gates as well. I'm surprised there aren't more basketballers playing TE. Former Jayhawk Jeff Graves would make a dandy one. 6'9" 265 lbs and the agility of a basketballer. C'mon Carl, go find him.

the Talking Can
12-05-2005, 09:05 AM
did you watch Gonzo block yesterday?

he's going to the hall of fame for more than just catching passes....

MIAdragon
12-05-2005, 09:08 AM
All that pass blocking affected his receiving numbers, IMO I donít think that took anything away from his value

SpitLightning
12-05-2005, 09:18 AM
stats dont tell the whole story, gates didnt even start the first game and he leads all TE in stats (or was) but I still dont think You can judge by the stats.

K.C. has had some oline trouble as have the chargers, consistency is the key! and right now I hate to admit it but gonzo has done it for longer, he is the winner (for now), is he more talented?, no I dont think so, he just has been doing it More consistent than any other TE in the league for the past several yrs, in a couple of yrs we can hash it out, still no one better than Kellen winslow Sr. the BEST EVER

NJ Chief Fan
12-05-2005, 09:21 AM
T-GOAT got longevity...f gates 2 season dont make you better then T-GOAT...plus T-GOAT is some what of a slow starter and in the beginning of the season he was used more to block cause our awesome lt black

KCTitus
12-05-2005, 09:23 AM
did you watch Gonzo block yesterday?

he's going to the hall of fame for more than just catching passes....

Amen...the winning TD was the result of Tony sealing the edge stopping his man and the saftey tracking Johnson to the corner.

mnchiefsguy
12-05-2005, 09:23 AM
Gates is younger, but Tony has plenty of gas in the tank. I would be willing to bet that if Willie Roaf had played in all 12 games this year, Gonzo would be well past Gates, even if Gates got his one game back that he missed. Even with Roaf out, Tony's numbers are within a reasonable distance of Gates. If Gates can keep up his production for the next three or four seasons, then you can start mentioning him in the same breath as Tony. Gates still has some dues to pay, just like when Tony was surpassing Shannon Sharpe as the best TE in the game.

BigLefty05
12-05-2005, 09:25 AM
I would prefer Gates if I had to pick one for a team...one because he's younger and two because he isn't such a prick.

Molitoth
12-05-2005, 09:25 AM
KC is simply spreading the ball around more this year then SD. This doesn't mean Gonzo isn't as good as before.

the Talking Can
12-05-2005, 09:26 AM
Amen...the winning TD was the result of Tony sealing the edge stopping his man and the saftey tracking Johnson to the corner.

there is a great picture in gochiefs pic thread of Gonzo on that play...his arms are extended wide in a victory "V" as LJ steps into the endzone...teamwork

phxchief
12-05-2005, 10:47 AM
Gates can't hold Gonzo's jock in terms of blocking and when do we step back and think about OPPORTUNITY?

Brees regularly throws to Gates. In fact, they force him the ball. A lot.

Gonzo just hasn't had many looks. He had all of ONE throw to him in the endzone yesterday.

Ralphy Boy
12-05-2005, 11:11 AM
I'm not saying he has past him, just that it warrants some discussion. Gonzo thrived because he was the centerpiece of this offense for years before Priest and 2nd only to him while he was here. The combinations of Gates/Tomlinson and Gonzo/Johnson are two interesting comparisons to me because they are all similar in terms of being the best at their positions. LJ has outperformed LT the last few games, but I don't think anyone would say he's better either. He's not any younger, they are the same age, although I think LJ has less wear on him but given that he likes to run so physically, he could take a real pounding and not be as fortunate health wise as LT has.

ChiefsfaninPA
12-05-2005, 11:14 AM
LT and LJ run two different ways. LJ will pound your brains out and LT will dance around you. LJ is more efficient because he tires the defense out. All of those collisions make for a long day for the D. But again they are two different backs. It would be like comparing Priest to LJ.

Ralphy Boy
12-05-2005, 11:22 AM
Gates was born 6/18/80 and in less than three years, has the below stats.
YEAR TEAM G REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
2003 SDG 15 24 389 16.2 48 2 19 1 1
2004 SDG 15 81 964 11.9 72 13 55 0 0
2005 SDG 11 63 874 13.9 38 8 48 0 0
Career 41 168 2227 13.3 72 23 122 1 1

Gonzo was born 2/27/76 and in his first thee years had the below stats
YEAR TEAM G REC YDS AVG LNG TD FD FUM LOST
1997 KAN 16 33 368 11.2 30 2 21 0 0
1998 KAN 16 59 621 10.5 32 2 33 3 1
1999 KAN 15 76 849 11.2 73 11 47 2 1
Career 47 168 1838 10.9 73 15 101 5 2

Granted Gonzo is in his 9th year and his total career stats
(Career 139 629 7548 12.0 73 56 405 5 2) are stronger but Gates has half the TD's and almost 1/3 the yards in less than 1/3 the time in the league.

Tuckdaddy
12-05-2005, 11:26 AM
When they have sustained this level of play for as long as Tony I'll say they are better.

vailpass
12-05-2005, 11:28 AM
Gonzo was badass and still has a couple of good years in him; Gates is the present and future.

When either one of them passes the records of Sharpe and Winslow give me a call.

Ralphy Boy
12-05-2005, 11:28 AM
LT and LJ run two different ways. LJ will pound your brains out and LT will dance around you. LJ is more efficient because he tires the defense out. All of those collisions make for a long day for the D. But again they are two different backs. It would be like comparing Priest to LJ.

You mean comparing Priest to LT.

I understand what your saying, and I guess I never shared this, but my background thought on posting this thread was watching the Chargers/Raiders game last night and thinking about the young TE/RB combo's in the league now and the record books. Marty said that LT is the best he's ever seen, and they talked about it thru the whole fricking game, and when they showed the clip of it the thought in the back of my head was "yeah, but he didn't say anything about Gates because Tony was the best TE he ever saw".

And then I started wondering if he really was which led to me thinking about how Gates/LT compare to Gonzo/LJ.

htismaqe
12-05-2005, 11:49 AM
When either one of them passes the records of Sharpe and Winslow give me a call.

You speak of it as if it's not inevitable, even though you know deep down that it is.

Sure-Oz
12-05-2005, 11:54 AM
Im just glad gonzo got a TD yesterday.

vailpass
12-05-2005, 12:42 PM
You speak of it as if it's not inevitable, even though you know deep down that it is.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear; I actually think just the opposite.

Until this year I was sure Gnzo would break all of the records. For whatever reason Gonzo's stats have slowed way down this year. Blocking is a part of the picture but IMHO the stats don't reflect blocking like they should and more HOF voter weight is placed on the recordable areas. TG is coming up on his 10th year, I think, and time will start to work against him. He can still break the records but can't afford another year like this one.

Injury/time are the only things that will keep Gates from shattering all existing TE records.