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Saulbadguy
12-06-2005, 09:31 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_re_us/kids_behaving_badly

CHICAGO - Dan McCauley had seen one too many kids at his cafe lying on the floor in front of the counter, careening off the glass pastry case, coming perilously close to getting their fingers pinched in the front door. So he posted a sign: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."

To him, it was a simple reminder to parents to keep an eye on their children and set some limits. But to some parents in his North Side Chicago neighborhood, the sign may as well have read, "If you have kids, you're not welcome."

That one little notice, adorned with pastel hand prints, has become a lightning rod in a larger debate over parenting and misbehaving children.

"It's not about the kids," says McCauley, the 44-year-old owner of A Taste of Heaven cafe, who has no children but claims to like them a lot. "It's about the parents who are with them. Are they supervising and guiding them?

"I'm just asking that they are considerate to people around them."

While he has created some enemies in his neighborhood, McCauley has received hundreds of calls and more than 600 letters, the overwhelming majority of them supportive. One letter-writer from Alabama typed out in bold letters: "In my opinion, you're a hero! Keep it up."

It is a sentiment that people feel increasingly comfortable expressing. Online bloggers regularly make impassioned pleas for child-free zones in public, while e-mailers have been forwarding a photograph of a sign in an unidentified business that reads, "Unattended Children Will Be Given an Espresso and a Puppy."

While it is common policy for upscale restaurants to bar children, owners of other types of businesses also are setting limits on kids.

The Wynn Hotel in Las Vegas, for instance, does not allow visitors who aren't guests to have strollers; hotel officials say it is to prevent crashes with other pedestrians. The Bellagio Hotel does not take guests younger than 18 without special permission.

Some parents are fine with the limit-setting and complain that too many of their peers take their kids to places traditionally meant for adults, such as late-night movies and rock concerts.

Robin Piccini, a 42-year-old mom in Bridgewater, Mass., gets annoyed when she has hired a baby sitter for her daughter, only to end up seated at a restaurant next to unruly kids.

"I am paying the same price so that I can have a relaxing dinner, but because there are lazy parents out there, my dinner has to be stressful and tense," she says. "How fair is that?"

Still, while they agree that some parents push the boundaries too far, other weary parents feel under siege and misunderstood.

"Don't get me wrong. As a parent, I have an arsenal that includes the deadly stare, loss of privileges and `We're going back to the car, RIGHT NOW!'" says Angela Toda, a 38-year-old mother of two small children in College Park, Md. "But the bottom line is, there are certain moments that all kids and parents have and sometimes your kid is going to lose it in a public place."

She says she does not usually respond well to other people's interference, "unless it is a sympathetic look."

Parents in Port Melbourne, Australia, also were upset last year when a sign appeared on the restaurant door at the Clare Castle Hotel stating that children were welcome only if they stayed in their seats. The establishment has since changed hands and dropped the policy, which new owner Michael Farrant says makes no sense in a neighborhood filled with young families.

"I like the kids running about," says Farrant, a father of three, including a 2-year-old. "I know what it's like with a little one. Sometimes, there's no controlling them."

Still other business owners are creating separate spaces for kids and families, in an attempt to accommodate as many generations as possible.

All Booked Up in Suffolk, Va., is among bookstores that have separate sections where kids can play and rest. Many ballparks have alcohol-free "family sections." And a few restaurants have added separate dining areas for parents with children.

Zulema Suarez, a professor who studies parenting, applauds attempts to strike a balance.

"There needs to be a give and take," says Suarez, an associate professor of social work at Adelphi University in Garden City, N.Y. "Children don't need to be allowed to run wild and free, but they do need to be allowed to express themselves."

Too often, though, our cultural emphasis on freedom and individual rights gets taken to the extreme, becoming "a kind of selfish entitlement that undermines our ability to function as a civil community," says George Scarlett, a professor of child development at Tufts University in Boston.

"The rights of any one individual whether he or she be a parent, child or stranger do not negate the rights of others."

Count Alex's Losses
12-06-2005, 09:39 AM
Robin Piccini, a 42-year-old mom in Bridgewater, Mass., gets annoyed when she has hired a baby sitter for her daughter, only to end up seated at a restaurant next to unruly kids.

"I am paying the same price so that I can have a relaxing dinner, but because there are lazy parents out there, my dinner has to be stressful and tense," she says. "How fair is that?"



You stupid bitch. Stop whining. You're getting dinner and a show.

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 09:45 AM
Too often, though, our cultural emphasis on freedom and individual rights gets taken to the extreme, becoming "a kind of selfish entitlement that undermines our ability to function as a civil community," says George Scarlett, a professor of child development at Tufts University in Boston.

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Back in the day my mom would smack other peoples kids for acting up.

morphius
12-06-2005, 09:50 AM
Too often, though, our cultural emphasis on freedom and individual rights gets taken to the extreme, becoming "a kind of selfish entitlement that undermines our ability to function as a civil community," says George Scarlett, a professor of child development at Tufts University in Boston.

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Back in the day my mom would smack other peoples kids for acting up.
And the neighbors were allowed to whip your ass if you were caught doing something you shouldn't.

Some kids are stubborn and will fight you no matter what the hell you try.

shakesthecat
12-06-2005, 09:51 AM
Bravo!
The world needs more people like Mr McCauley who say "enough".

I don't blame kids for acting up, they don't know any better.
But I regularly feel like strangling worthless parents whenever we go out to a nice place.

Rain Man
12-06-2005, 09:54 AM
And the neighbors were allowed to whip your ass if you were caught doing something you shouldn't.

Some kids are stubborn and will fight you no matter what the hell you try.


This is a good point. If society would let me smack children who are annoying me, the children would behave better and I'd be a lot more relaxed.

But do parents support this? Nooo-ooooo.

morphius
12-06-2005, 09:58 AM
This is a good point. If society would let me smack children who are annoying me, the children would behave better and I'd be a lot more relaxed.

But do parents support this? Nooo-ooooo.
heck you can barely get away with smacking your own children these days...

Lzen
12-06-2005, 09:58 AM
Bravo!
The world needs more people like Mr McCauley who say "enough".

I don't blame kids for acting up, they don't know any better.
But I regularly feel like strangling worthless parents whenever we go out to a nice place.

Yup.

Some parents are fine with the limit-setting and complain that too many of their peers take their kids to places traditionally meant for adults, such as late-night movies and rock concerts.

Yup. I really hate it when I go to an evening movie and I hear a young child or a baby start crying. If they can't find a sitter, they should go somewhere else. That being said, I realize that it's not always easy for people to find someone to watch their kids. And really, unless the place has a policy of no children allowed, I have to live with it. Or politely ask them to take their noisy child outside.

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 09:59 AM
And the neighbors were allowed to whip your ass if you were caught doing something you shouldn't.

Some kids are stubborn and will fight you no matter what the hell you try.


no my mom beat my ass if i needed it or not.:)

Lzen
12-06-2005, 10:00 AM
I should mention that I think the woman bitching about kids in a restaurant is probably a little bitchy. I mean, if you're eating at someplace like Olive Garden or Golden Corral, you should expect kids to be there. If you go to a fancy restaurant, probably not.

Lzen
12-06-2005, 10:01 AM
no my mom beat my ass if i needed it or not.:)

And look at how well you turned out. ROFL





j/k, MO :p

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 10:03 AM
And look at how well you turned out. ROFL


my cousin was spoiled rotten and never took a whippin and hes going to prison - something ive never had to do. county? yes - state pen? no.:p

Lzen
12-06-2005, 10:04 AM
I added that I was joking. I'm just naturally a smart ass. I can't help it.I can't held be responsible for my comments. ;)

ptlyon
12-06-2005, 10:05 AM
Someone say Penn State? LJ came from Penn State ya know...

What kids need these days is a little Brian Griffin enactment.

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 10:06 AM
I added that I was joking. I'm just naturally a smart ass. I can't help it.I can't held be responsible for my comments. ;)


Its why we're all here.

Reaper16
12-06-2005, 10:08 AM
Is this some kind of moderation warning from the WPI boards?

ptlyon
12-06-2005, 10:08 AM
Its why we're all here.

Screw that - I'm here for the free cheese dip.

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 10:10 AM
Screw that - I'm here for the free cheese dip.

have you met Rain Man?

ptlyon
12-06-2005, 10:12 AM
have you met Rain Man?

Had an opportunity once, but it didn't work out.

Would have liked to have met the man.

Sometimes I wonder what makes him tick. :hmmm: :spock:

Cochise
12-06-2005, 10:19 AM
I don't know about banning kids from public places, but parents sure as hell shouldn't bring them out if they can't control them.

mike_b_284
12-06-2005, 10:28 AM
When it comes to resturaunts, movies, grocery stores, etc I think parents should keep their kids at home until they are old enough to behave. Have someone (mom, dad, grandma, whoever) watch them for an hour while you go to wal-mart. Lets see how that austrailian dude feels about kids running around when one runs into a waiter carrying a tray of coffe, the kid gets burned, and the parents sue his ass.

Lzen
12-06-2005, 10:31 AM
When it comes to resturaunts, movies, grocery stores, etc I think parents should keep their kids at home until they are old enough to behave. Have someone (mom, dad, grandma, whoever) watch them for an hour while you go to wal-mart. Lets see how that austrailian dude feels about kids running around when one runs into a waiter carrying a tray of coffe, the kid gets burned, and the parents sue his ass.

Heh, that's a little extreme don't you think? Grocery stores?

pikesome
12-06-2005, 10:39 AM
When I worked at a theater (some years ago) the biggest problem we had was unattended kids. Parents drop their kids off to see Home Alone 2 and then leave. Imagine 300 children without adult supervision for an hour and a half. The theater was very limited in what we could do, couldn't even throw the trouble makers out because there was no way to get a hold of their parents. The likelihood of disruptions is one of the reasons I haven't seen a movie that wasn't rated R in quite a while.

jidar
12-06-2005, 10:42 AM
My kids have never been problem children beyond the terrible twos (and they weren't that bad then). It amazes me how parents can let their kids run around and do whatever they want.

I think parents just aren't strict enough these days. It's all this liberal touchy feely parenting bullshit.
I haven't spanked my kids in quite awhile as at ages 8 and 11 they are pretty well behaved these days, but I used to and that's why they listen now.

Cochise
12-06-2005, 10:53 AM
When I worked at a theater (some years ago) the biggest problem we had was unattended kids. Parents drop their kids off to see Home Alone 2 and then leave.

Right after I was old enough to drive I worked at worlds of fun, and the same thing happened there with a couple kids I remember. A few sets of dirtlip parents would buy a season passport for their kid and drop him off every day while they were at work with $5 for lunch. Unsupervised kid at a theme park is a lot cheaper than daycare.

I think eventually the place caught on and started doing something about it, but I remember one poor kid that could only have been about 8 or 9 who wandered the place by himself every day. We kept telling the higherups but they would say they tried confronting the parents and calling the child neglect people a bunch of times too but they would never come do anything about it. (I think eventually they revoked the passport or something)

mike_b_284
12-06-2005, 11:04 AM
Heh, that's a little extreme don't you think? Grocery stores?

I see too many unsupervised kids at grocery stores, wal-mart, kohl's etc. Not only is it a nusiance to me, it is a saftey risk for the kids. Also, I did say if they can't behave. As long as the kid isn't crying and throwing a fit over some candy, or running around loose I could care less. You can't spank the kid in the store, hell, you can hardly yell at them without security giving you shit. So again if they can't behave leave them at home/with someone else.

wilas101
12-06-2005, 11:08 AM
I think this is cool that this dude is at least trying to force people to take care of their kids.

My kids are 8 and 11 and average when in public. I'm not gonna say they are little angels nor do they act like they've gone mad but they're never a disruption and it was curbed at an early age.

Given the world of today you can't beat the crap out of them in public anymore so it was a matter of coming up with more creative means of inflicting pain without being so obvious about it. These people who act like they just can't do anything about the way their kid is acting because they're in public need to be on the receiving end of some lessons.

The body is full of pressure points and joints where intense amounts of pain can be inflicted with no bruising of tissue and no need to get all rowdy and make people notice. Enough pain will cause even the most crying prone kid to stfu when they suddenly become more interested in getting the pain to stop than crying for no real reason.


wow..... I really sound like a wonderful parent. :/

Braincase
12-06-2005, 11:49 AM
"Unattended Children will be sold on Ebay for Parts"

Demonpenz
12-06-2005, 11:52 AM
can't you just put duct tape over the kids mouth and poke holes in it so they can breathe

jidar
12-06-2005, 11:56 AM
can't you just put duct tape over the kids mouth and poke holes in it so they can breathe

Poke Holes... oohhhhhhh! :hmmm:
That's what I've been doing wrong...
:doh!:

Rain Man
12-06-2005, 11:56 AM
Right after I was old enough to drive I worked at worlds of fun, and the same thing happened there with a couple kids I remember. A few sets of dirtlip parents would buy a season passport for their kid and drop him off every day while they were at work with $5 for lunch. Unsupervised kid at a theme park is a lot cheaper than daycare.

I think eventually the place caught on and started doing something about it, but I remember one poor kid that could only have been about 8 or 9 who wandered the place by himself every day. We kept telling the higherups but they would say they tried confronting the parents and calling the child neglect people a bunch of times too but they would never come do anything about it. (I think eventually they revoked the passport or something)


They had an article a while back about parents doing this at our local Denver amusement park. I would think that the kids actually wouldn't mind it (even if it got a little old), but it seems a bit risky for a kid under ten. It might get old if the kid is going there every day, though - I'd probably have ended up bringing a book and hanging out in one of the cafeterias after a month or so.

The worse story in the article was that apparently some kids do the same thing at Toys R Us. Now, that's classy. Drop the kid off for eight hours in a toy store where he can't use the toys. Those parents should forced to wear a Barney costume or something.

morphius
12-06-2005, 12:01 PM
I see too many unsupervised kids at grocery stores, wal-mart, kohl's etc. Not only is it a nusiance to me, it is a saftey risk for the kids. Also, I did say if they can't behave. As long as the kid isn't crying and throwing a fit over some candy, or running around loose I could care less. You can't spank the kid in the store, hell, you can hardly yell at them without security giving you shit. So again if they can't behave leave them at home/with someone else.
So people should drive an hour to drop their kids off so they can go buy some milk, so you aren't a little inconvienced in a grocery store?

Oh bother.

Duck Dog
12-06-2005, 12:02 PM
Last thing I want to hear while eating, shopping or drinking is a kid, any kid of any age, crying screaming or running around.

Get a fricken babysitter! if you can't afford a babysitter, you can not afford to being eat out. If you have to go out and you have to take your obnoxious rug rat, go to Chucky Cheese.

ptlyon
12-06-2005, 12:05 PM
you can not afford to being eat out.

ROFL

Duck Dog
12-06-2005, 12:08 PM
ROFL
ROFL
That is a funny typo.

ptlyon
12-06-2005, 12:09 PM
Given the world of today you can't beat the crap out of them in public anymore so it was a matter of coming up with more creative means of inflicting pain without being so obvious about it.

ROFL

wow..... I really sound like a wonderful parent. :/

ROFL

memyselfI
12-06-2005, 12:10 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051205/ap_on_re_us/kids_behaving_badly

CHICAGO - Dan McCauley had seen one too many kids at his cafe lying on the floor in front of the counter, careening off the glass pastry case, coming perilously close to getting their fingers pinched in the front door. So he posted a sign: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."



Misbehaving children and smokers can ruin a dinner just about as fast as bad service or bad food can.

mike_b_284
12-06-2005, 12:12 PM
So people should drive an hour to drop their kids off so they can go buy some milk, so you aren't a little inconvienced in a grocery store?

Oh bother.

C'mon now, you are taking it out of context. I think you know what I mean. There is a difference between going to pick up milk and filling up a cart. I'm sure most people have someone they can leave their kids with closer than an hour away. Neighbors, babysitter, older sibling, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends with kids, kids friend's parents. If you can't find one of these then teach you kid to listen.

mike_b_284
12-06-2005, 12:14 PM
smokers can ruin a dinner just about as fast as bad service or bad food can.

Move to colorado and change teams, whining is a donks fan requirement

Cochise
12-06-2005, 12:15 PM
I always go for groceries at night. After 7PM or so, there aren't any screaming kids there, and it's less crowded in general too.

The side benefits are that you avoid screaming kids, as well as infamous grocery store hall of famers like:

-people blocking the whole aisle with their cart sideways while they stare at products
-slow arses who take an hour to get down an aisle where there is no room to pass
-people who whine about the items they get in the meat department and send them back 30 times in a row to get another one they like the looks of slightly better
-Losers with 500,000 coupons to redeem that not only don't have them cut out already but have to search for them all in the armload of circulars they brought with them
-The woman with $300 worth of groceries who holds up the line for 10 minutes arguing over a nickel's price difference.
-Making a scene when your check is turned down (showing them your handwriting in the check register that says you have money isn't going to cut it)
-Asking for 2,000 price matches from the store across town. If the prices are so much better then GO THERE AND SHOP MORON!

ptlyon
12-06-2005, 12:15 PM
C'mon now, you are taking it out of context. I think you know what I mean. There is a difference between going to pick up milk and filling up a cart. I'm sure most people have someone they can leave their kids with closer than an hour away. Neighbors, babysitter, older sibling, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends with kids, kids friend's parents. If you can't find one of these then teach you kid to listen.

I still don't understand why they just can't tie them up to a hitch outside just like people did in the old west with horses.

Rain Man
12-06-2005, 12:15 PM
Given the world of today you can't beat the crap out of them in public anymore so it was a matter of coming up with more creative means of inflicting pain without being so obvious about it. These people who act like they just can't do anything about the way their kid is acting because they're in public need to be on the receiving end of some lessons.

The body is full of pressure points and joints where intense amounts of pain can be inflicted with no bruising of tissue and no need to get all rowdy and make people notice. Enough pain will cause even the most crying prone kid to stfu when they suddenly become more interested in getting the pain to stop than crying for no real reason.



Just FYI, this works very well with employees, too.

Demonpenz
12-06-2005, 12:17 PM
punch a pillow strike a wall but never shake a baby too hard

Rain Man
12-06-2005, 12:20 PM
"It's not about the kids," says McCauley, the 44-year-old owner of A Taste of Heaven cafe, who has no children but claims to like them a lot. "It's about the parents who are with them. Are they supervising and guiding them?




Does anyone else wonder if the Health Department will eventually find out that there's no chicken in the chicken cordon bleu?

Boise_Chief
12-06-2005, 12:23 PM
I think people who bow to public opinion and don't parent their kids in public are gutless. If one of my kids acts up in public and deserves a spanking they are gonna get one. I think the trick is my one swat rule. Give em one and make it match the circumstances, from a little pop to the master rosey butt with a Koncho sideswipe.





(okay no Koncho but it made me laugh)

Count Alex's Losses
12-06-2005, 12:28 PM
I used to get the belt out in the lobby of our Jehovah's Witness "church."

We had a saying after awhile..."when we go to meeting, we will get a beating!"

memyselfI
12-06-2005, 12:32 PM
Move to colorado and change teams, whining is a donks fan requirement

Actually, the only whining I see is parents incapable or unwilling to parent their children getting 'offended' by the expectation that they should. :deevee:

Kclee
12-06-2005, 12:36 PM
The body is full of pressure points and joints where intense amounts of pain can be inflicted with no bruising of tissue and no need to get all rowdy and make people notice.

You're either Rich Scanlon or Chuck Norris. I can't place it.

memyselfI
12-06-2005, 12:36 PM
C'mon now, you are taking it out of context. I think you know what I mean. There is a difference between going to pick up milk and filling up a cart. I'm sure most people have someone they can leave their kids with closer than an hour away. Neighbors, babysitter, older sibling, aunts, uncles, grandparents, friends with kids, kids friend's parents. If you can't find one of these then teach you kid to listen.

I think the parents can just take turns going to the grocery store like my husband and I did when the kids were little and still do. Our kids were taken into a grocery store only in rare situations. But there were a few times when I left a cart full of groceries in an isle because one or both of them were acting up and I didn't want to deal with it and didn't feel others should have to as well...

same with restaurants. When the kids were little there were a few times when we had to ask for our food to go or to take the kid(s) to the car and straighten their azzes out before they were allowed to join us again. It happened RARELY because we did not tolerate it.

Rain Man
12-06-2005, 12:56 PM
I used to get the belt out in the lobby of our Jehovah's Witness "church."

We had a saying after awhile..."when we go to meeting, we will get a beating!"

My dad's was, "If the cotton ain't picked, Rain Man's going to get kicked."

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 01:01 PM
My dad's was, "If the cotton ain't picked, Rain Man's going to get kicked."


my dads ' youre going to be looking up at the sky wondering how you got there'

he was always fair - mom was the crazy one.

sedated
12-06-2005, 01:11 PM
F*ck children.


...and old people.

They are nothing but a burden on society.

Rain Man
12-06-2005, 01:12 PM
my dads ' youre going to be looking up at the sky wondering how you got there'

he was always fair - mom was the crazy one.


No more wire hangars! NO MORE WIRE HANGARS!

http://www.agliff.org/files/images/web_no_wire_hangers.jpg

Inspector
12-06-2005, 01:15 PM
I let me kids do whatever they want.

Of course, they are all bigger than me......

StcChief
12-06-2005, 01:15 PM
Bravo for owner standing up to bad parents, kids in his business.

Bad parents raising kids that are out of control.

Next generation same story.

Wonder how many of those parents were raised the same way.

sedated
12-06-2005, 01:21 PM
He's taking a stand against society's future inmates.

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 01:29 PM
F*ck children.


...and old people.

They are nothing but a burden on society.

dont forget cripples.

MOhillbilly
12-06-2005, 01:30 PM
No more wire hangars! NO MORE WIRE HANGARS!

http://www.agliff.org/files/images/web_no_wire_hangers.jpg

ROFL add about 2 bills and you got it.

i left home as soon as i could drive...

sedated
12-06-2005, 01:42 PM
dont forget cripples.

true, they are a burden, but they are also funny.

whenever I get down on life, I just think about the funny people.