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View Full Version : Passing in the redzone is why Saunders should never be HC


The Bad Guy
12-11-2005, 04:39 PM
LJ is tearing up the Cowboys and he decides to throw the ball twice in a row when the Cowboys would have used timeouts to stop the clock?

I don't care about how many yards this offense has put up, his desire to be too cute is the reason he should never be the HC of this team.

Rexx
12-11-2005, 04:58 PM
I agree....I never post, just a lurker, but that play calling in the redzone may cost the Chiefs the game. Plus using the timeouts when there was no need to. Pathetic coaching.

farmerchief
12-11-2005, 04:58 PM
I agree,,,run the dang ball inside the 10yd line,,,even if you get stuffed!!!

jjjayb
12-11-2005, 04:58 PM
No kidding. Had the ball 2 other times in the 10 yard line and ran the ball. Scored on both drives. Why change what works? Don't change it till they make you change it. :cuss:

B2chiefsfan
12-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Stupid.....Stupid......Stupid........:cuss:


The was the dumbest call of the year!!!!!!!!!!


Why didn't they at least have Richardson in there to block!!!!!!!


WTF!!!!!!!!!

chiefsfaninNC
12-11-2005, 05:01 PM
Just like the Buffalo game, coaching is going to lose this game.

Boyceofsummer
12-11-2005, 05:01 PM
In addition, Green holding the ball that long...........................

Last week Green takes a delay of game penalty. STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought this team would kill DV with the shit they pull this year. DV is gonna kill US with the shit he allows.

TAKE THE DEPENDS OFF DICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tigermoose
12-11-2005, 05:04 PM
LJ is tearing up the Cowboys and he decides to throw the ball twice in a row when the Cowboys would have used timeouts to stop the clock?

I don't care about how many yards this offense has put up, his desire to be too cute is the reason he should never be the HC of this team.

over 2 minutes left to go at the start of the drive with 3 time outs, and the Chiefs come out throwing like we have no timeouts and a minute left , and they called time outs like it as well. WTF! :cuss:

ChiTown
12-11-2005, 05:05 PM
Just give Larry the damn ball. I'm sick of Saunders. That fn idiot could f up a bread sandwich.

ChiTown
12-11-2005, 05:18 PM
Just give Larry the damn ball. I'm sick of Saunders. That fn idiot could f up a bread sandwich.

Like I said, just give LJ the ball.......... :)

the Talking Can
12-11-2005, 06:56 PM
dumbest play call ever...but it is still the defens's fault...they were pathetic

Guru
12-11-2005, 06:59 PM
Al Saunders is a complete idiot.

Mecca
12-12-2005, 07:17 AM
No offense to anyones opinion of Al Saunders or wanting to run the ball but.......Larry Johnson has been averaging 30 carries a game with receptions since he became the starter. So you're looking at 33-36 touches a game for LJ since he became the starter.

If he continued that pace, for a 16 game season he'd break the single season record for carries and touches in a season by a player.

So let me ask this, if you don't think we're running enough why is he on a pace that would break the record for carries? If you gave a player this many touches over a very long span his career as a productive player wouldn't last very long.

30 carries a game is well above the league average for carries a game for 1 player. So what's the deal with this opinion that we don't run the ball enough? Do you want to kill LJ or shorten his career?

1adam1238
12-12-2005, 07:27 AM
No offense to anyones opinion of Al Saunders or wanting to run the ball but.......Larry Johnson has been averaging 30 carries a game with receptions since he became the starter. So you're looking at 33-36 touches a game for LJ since he became the starter.

If he continued that pace, for a 16 game season he'd break the single season record for carries and touches in a season by a player.

So let me ask this, if you don't think we're running enough why is he on a pace that would break the record for carries? If you gave a player this many touches over a very long span his career as a productive player wouldn't last very long.

30 carries a game is well above the league average for carries a game for 1 player. So what's the deal with this opinion that we don't run the ball enough? Do you want to kill LJ or shorten his career?


Are you shi^^&& me? They are saying we should have run him in the red zone...rest him at ohter times. AS is no Head Coach.....

jjchieffan
12-12-2005, 07:29 AM
So Saunders made a couple of bad calls. Maybe he saw something in the defense he thought he could take advantage of. For the most part, he called a good game. Dallas gave up alot more than they usually do. Dont forget that AS called the plays that put us in postion for Tynes to kick, and we should have had more time left. The coaching staff was calling for a TO for at least 5-6 seconds before the last Dallas TD. That would have given Green one crack at the endzone. Too many whatifs to blame AS. Dont forget, he called the plays right last week to beat the donkeys

ChiefsFanatic
12-12-2005, 07:30 AM
No offense to anyones opinion of Al Saunders or wanting to run the ball but.......Larry Johnson has been averaging 30 carries a game with receptions since he became the starter. So you're looking at 33-36 touches a game for LJ since he became the starter.

If he continued that pace, for a 16 game season he'd break the single season record for carries and touches in a season by a player.

So let me ask this, if you don't think we're running enough why is he on a pace that would break the record for carries? If you gave a player this many touches over a very long span his career as a productive player wouldn't last very long.

30 carries a game is well above the league average for carries a game for 1 player. So what's the deal with this opinion that we don't run the ball enough? Do you want to kill LJ or shorten his career?

It is not how much he runs the ball, but when he doesn't run the ball. Lately our offense has been stagnate in the red-zone, and a lot of that has to do with Green being ineffective in the passing game. However, LJ has been scoring in the red-zone. Give him the ball.

I said the same thing when Priest was healthy. Quit being cute, and do what we do best. Especially with Roaf back.

Mecca
12-12-2005, 07:31 AM
Are you shi^^&& me? They are saying we should have run him in the red zone...rest him at ohter times. AS is no Head Coach.....

I'm not persay saying that, alot of people on here want to run the ball more in general. I'm just pointing out that he's on a pace that would break records. Giving a player that many touches will shorten his career.....

Mecca
12-12-2005, 07:38 AM
It is not how much he runs the ball, but when he doesn't run the ball. Lately our offense has been stagnate in the red-zone, and a lot of that has to do with Green being ineffective in the passing game. However, LJ has been scoring in the red-zone. Give him the ball.

I said the same thing when Priest was healthy. Quit being cute, and do what we do best. Especially with Roaf back.

If we continue to use him this much at this rate......he'll turn into what Eddie George did before he's 30. There's a classic case of a back who was overworked and his career ended early.

RINGLEADER
12-12-2005, 09:00 AM
The Trent Green fumble and the Patrick Surtain drop just killed us. Final score should have been 35 to 17...but you do have to hang this one on the defense and especially Gunther for deciding that he shouldn't blitz Bledsoe. That was just idiotic.

Still upbeat on our chances though. The Chargers loss is just a killer for them and if we win our last two games we will be in the playoffs. San Diego is going to end up 9-7 and the Steelers won't be able to top our conference record of 9-3 for the tie-breaker.

But a win yesterday would have really put us in a great position.

the Talking Can
12-12-2005, 09:04 AM
If we continue to use him this much at this rate......he'll turn into what Eddie George did before he's 30. There's a classic case of a back who was overworked and his career ended early.

so what?

the point is winning games and making the playoffs...we'll get another RB when LJ breaks down...I don't give a crap about his career longevity...

Saulbadguy
12-12-2005, 09:06 AM
:rolleyes:

Yeah, right. Let's just run it 3 times every time. I'm sure defenses won't figure that one out.

The Bad Guy
12-12-2005, 09:46 AM
:rolleyes:

Yeah, right. Let's just run it 3 times every time. I'm sure defenses won't figure that one out.

It had nothing to do with a defense figuring it out.

There was a minute left, and at worse, the Chiefs should have 3 points from that trip.

I just don't see the reason you throw on first and second down. Why not run on first to take some time off the clock?

Have teams figured out how to slow our running game yet? I would have taken my chances running the ball to end a half.

siberian khatru
12-12-2005, 09:49 AM
It had nothing to do with a defense figuring it out.

There was a minute left, and at worse, the Chiefs should have 3 points from that trip.

I just don't see the reason you throw on first and second down. Why not run on first to take some time off the clock?

Have teams figured out how to slow our running game yet? I would have taken my chances running the ball to end a half.

Yes, it's all about clock management. Vermeil and Co. have consistently made mistakes in that regard. That's one way you can protect your defense, it's astounding DV (or AS) doesn't do a better job at it. There was no reason to score quickly down there.

ChiefsCountry
12-12-2005, 09:50 AM
You know we pass in the red zone bc we have the best damn red zone tight end in the game of football.

ChiTown
12-12-2005, 09:56 AM
I'm not persay saying that, alot of people on here want to run the ball more in general. I'm just pointing out that he's on a pace that would break records. Giving a player that many touches will shorten his career.....

That's not, and has never been the issue. It's how and when he uses him, not how much.

Chiefnj
12-12-2005, 09:57 AM
Yeah, lets criticize and blame the loss on the guy who was able to move the ball up and down the field all day and put 28 points on the road against a tough defense.

I can't wait until KC fans ride Saunders out of town and spend the next few years griping about dozens of plays a game when the Chiefs have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL.

ChiTown
12-12-2005, 10:00 AM
Yeah, lets criticize and blame the loss on the guy who was able to move the ball up and down the field all day and put 28 points on the road against a tough defense.

I can't wait until KC fans ride Saunders out of town and spend the next few years griping about dozens of plays a game when the Chiefs have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL.

Oh, there's plenty of blame to go around for this defense. Believe me, they sucked far worse than any other component of our team.

FringeNC
12-12-2005, 10:02 AM
Yeah, lets criticize and blame the loss on the guy who was able to move the ball up and down the field all day and put 28 points on the road against a tough defense.

I can't wait until KC fans ride Saunders out of town and spend the next few years griping about dozens of plays a game when the Chiefs have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL.

Exactly. It appears about half of this board must have watched a different game than I did. I guess Saunders can't call the plays, block the rushers, and coordinate and play D all at the same time.

siberian khatru
12-12-2005, 10:04 AM
Yeah, lets criticize and blame the loss on the guy who was able to move the ball up and down the field all day and put 28 points on the road against a tough defense.

I can't wait until KC fans ride Saunders out of town and spend the next few years griping about dozens of plays a game when the Chiefs have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL.

I wouldn't blame the loss on AS. Criticizing some of his play calling, or more specifically the team's clock management, isn't the same as throwing him under the bus and blaming the loss just on that. It contributed to the loss, as did many other things.

htismaqe
12-12-2005, 10:06 AM
I'm not blaming the loss on Saunders. Just like I'm not blaming the loss on LJ. There was an entire half of football AFTER that fumble in which the defense did 2 things -- jack and shit.

However, the playcalling on that red zone series WAS dumb.

ck_IN
12-12-2005, 10:32 AM
I think in some way this sort of thing is ego stroking by either DV or AS. Calling a run sweep or inside trap isn't imaginative and won't get you game calling kudos on ESPN. All it does is likely result in a score.

Calling some kind of razzle dazzle pass play has the potential to make people step back and say 'wow, who called that?!'.

We've morphed into a smash mouth team with LJ and Roaf but AS/DV don't want to admit it.

The Bad Guy
12-12-2005, 10:56 AM
Yeah, lets criticize and blame the loss on the guy who was able to move the ball up and down the field all day and put 28 points on the road against a tough defense.

I can't wait until KC fans ride Saunders out of town and spend the next few years griping about dozens of plays a game when the Chiefs have the 20th ranked offense in the NFL.

I'm not blaming him for the loss.

I'm blaming his inability to call the right play when the time calls for it.

Running the ball would have been the right thing to do with a minute left and in the redzone.

RickObie
12-12-2005, 11:34 AM
Granted hindsight is always 20/20 but my question is why take the timeout with about a 1:22 left then pass the ball. It's horrible clock management.

Even if you score you leave Dallas a minute to do something with the ball.

I thought they took the timeout to give us a chance to run a time or two.

Easy to complain after the fact, it they score and stop the CBoys we're singing a different tune.

Saulbadguy
12-12-2005, 02:18 PM
Playcalling. It is great when it works, it is dumb when it does not work. :rolleyes:

Totally subjective.

The Bad Guy
12-12-2005, 02:26 PM
Playcalling. It is great when it works, it is dumb when it does not work. :rolleyes:

Totally subjective.

It's clock-management and that's not subjective.

Why throw the ball to score fast and give them the ball with a minute left, two timeouts?

It makes no sense.

tk13
12-12-2005, 02:27 PM
I did not like the timeout. Did not have a problem with calling a pass though. We shredded them through the air, it's not like they were shutting down our passing game either. I don't even think it was Al being cute, just mixing it up and continuing to keep them off balance.

Playcalling is subjective, people don't complain as long as it works. People think we're cute, I can't even imagine the outrage on these boards had Saunders called the type of game Shanahan and Dallas' OC called the last two weeks and brought out reverses and flea flickers and all that garbage, THAT'S being cute. Not trying to mix in a pass play or two to open up the running lanes because teams want to bring 8 down in the box to stop LJ.

Saulbadguy
12-12-2005, 02:31 PM
It's clock-management and that's not subjective.

Why throw the ball to score fast and give them the ball with a minute left, two timeouts?

It makes no sense.
IMO, trying to score is more important than worrying about the clock. We weren't guaranteed a score in the redzone, so get it done any way possible. If they (coaching staff) saw something they thought they could exploit with a pass, why not pass it?

Totally subjective, still. If we would have scored on that pass play, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Even if AS playcalling gets us 30 ppg, it still "wouldn't be good enough" because of one play, which in this case, wasn't a bad call. It was poorly excecuted.

jidar
12-12-2005, 02:33 PM
This thread is proof that few people here know what the **** they're talking about.

I'd love it if all the Coaches in the league were like these guys in this thread. I could be Defensive Coordinator in that league and completely own. People would wonder at my ability to predict what opposing offenses were going to do. I'd even have a 900 number, I'd let other DC's call me and ask for advice "Hey they're on the 5, what do you think they're gonna do? me: They're gonna run it!"

Mr. Laz
12-12-2005, 02:41 PM
i think we lost the game because of coaching


we didn't know when to call a timeout
we didn't know when to blitz
we didn't know what plays to call


Kansas city talent level > Dallas talent level

Dallas coaches > Kansas city coaches


we played stupid and lost a very winnable game because of it. Not the first time this year either.

Chiefnj
12-12-2005, 02:49 PM
I think in some way this sort of thing is ego stroking by either DV or AS. Calling a run sweep or inside trap isn't imaginative and won't get you game calling kudos on ESPN. All it does is likely result in a score.

Calling some kind of razzle dazzle pass play has the potential to make people step back and say 'wow, who called that?!'.

We've morphed into a smash mouth team with LJ and Roaf but AS/DV don't want to admit it.

I must have missed the razzle, dazzle element of the play. It looked to me like Green was taking a 5 or 7 step drop to pass the ball. Probably to one of the receivers or TE who were open for most of the day.

Yep, it's AS' fault. Damn him for expecting a player to be able to pick up an obvious block.

Saulbadguy
12-12-2005, 02:50 PM
Kansas city talent level > Dallas talent level


On defense, that is very debatable.

DaWolf
12-12-2005, 03:09 PM
I can't critisize the play. Frankly that would have been a great time to try and go to Gonzo in the end zone. We've just got to block. Give Dallas credit, they saw the weakness in our blocking scheme and took advantage of it. But we can't go conservative there.

Now if we're inside the 5 yard line and he decides to get cute again, that's where I have a problem...

Pitt Gorilla
12-12-2005, 03:10 PM
LJ makes the block, my bet is on a TD. I guess we should never throw in the redzone.

Mr. Laz
12-12-2005, 03:10 PM
On defense, that is very debatable.
agreed


but imo we are MUCH better on offense


total talent level = Chiefs

ChiefsFanatic
12-12-2005, 03:16 PM
If we continue to use him this much at this rate......he'll turn into what Eddie George did before he's 30. There's a classic case of a back who was overworked and his career ended early.

Or, he could be the next Curtis Martin. He was not used heavily in the first part of the season. I am not saying keep this pace over his entire career, but he is fresh, and we need to win to get to the playoffs. It is that simple.

ChiefsFanatic
12-12-2005, 03:17 PM
You know we pass in the red zone bc we have the best damn red zone tight end in the game of football.

Yeah, Tony is really tearing it up in the red-zone this year.

FringeNC
12-12-2005, 03:23 PM
Having the #1-ranked offense in the league yet again is why Saunders SHOULD certainly be our next head coach; having the #27-ranked defense or worse for two years in a row is why Gunther should be discarded immediately.

Mr. Laz
12-12-2005, 03:26 PM
Having the #1-ranked offense in the league yet again is why Saunders SHOULD certainly be our next head coach; having the #27-ranked defense or worse for two years in a row is why Gunther should be discarded immediately.
agreed ....

if making Saunders the HC means we keep our top 5 offense going then it might be worth it.


gut the entire defensive coaching staff and go get someone who can really run the defense.

MOhillbilly
12-12-2005, 03:29 PM
Having the #1-ranked offense in the league yet again is why Saunders SHOULD certainly be our next head coach; having the #27-ranked defense or worse for two years in a row is why Gunther should be discarded immediately.


whos gonna come in thats proven that A) isnt looking to be a HC? B) doesnt want HC money?


and the all important will the KC front office make the right deal?


im gonna say - nah.

Pitt Gorilla
12-12-2005, 03:30 PM
Having the #1-ranked offense in the league yet again is why Saunders SHOULD certainly be our next head coach; having the #27-ranked defense or worse for two years in a row is why Gunther should be discarded immediately.#1 in total yards, top 3 in TOP, top 5 or 6 in scoring. Yup, Saunders stinks.
:rolleyes:

philfree
12-12-2005, 03:54 PM
The sack fumble play was interesting. Gonzo lines up on the right over Fujita but then Trent's sends Gonzo to the other side opening up the one on one between Fujita and LJ. LJ whiffs adn Fujita gets the sack and causes the fumble. I'm wondering if Gonzo lined up wrong and Green corrected him(That's kinda what it looked like to me.) or if Gonzo lined up correctly and Trent moved him for a match up or...or...or...or? ....LJ missed read his blockng assignment. Regardless if Gonzo stays where he lined up Fujita don't get to Green on the blitz.

PhilFree:arrow:

MOhillbilly
12-12-2005, 03:57 PM
The sack fumble play was interesting. Gonzo lines up on the right over Fujita but then Trent's sends Gonzo to the other side opening up the one on one between Fujita and LJ. LJ whiffs adn Fujita gets the sack and causes the fumble. I'm wondering if Gonzo lined up wrong and Green corrected him(That's kinda what it looked like to me.) or if Gonzo lined up correctly and Trent moved him for a match up or...or...or...or? ....LJ missed read his blockng assignment. Regardless if Gonzo stays where he lined up Fujita don't get to Green on the blitz.

PhilFree:arrow:

i thought gretz said yesterday KC had just lined up in the same formation the play before.

Calcountry
12-12-2005, 04:29 PM
so what?

the point is winning games and making the playoffs...we'll get another RB when LJ breaks down...I don't give a crap about his career longevity...No shit, wasn't he the one crying about getting to start?

Well, buck up LJ. I wan't to see a few more vergina signs in the endzone too. :D

Calcountry
12-12-2005, 04:32 PM
It had nothing to do with a defense figuring it out.

There was a minute left, and at worse, the Chiefs should have 3 points from that trip.

I just don't see the reason you throw on first and second down. Why not run on first to take some time off the clock?

Have teams figured out how to slow our running game yet? I would have taken my chances running the ball to end a half.Agreed. but hindsight is 20/20

Calcountry
12-12-2005, 04:33 PM
Yes, it's all about clock management. Vermeil and Co. have consistently made mistakes in that regard. That's one way you can protect your defense, it's astounding DV (or AS) doesn't do a better job at it. There was no reason to score quickly down there.like at the end of the first half. :rolleyes: Even the announcers were stupified by KC taking a time out. Then Parcells calls on on third down and forces us to punt to end the half.

Mr. Laz
12-12-2005, 04:51 PM
like at the end of the first half. :rolleyes: Even the announcers were stupified by KC taking a time out. Then Parcells calls on on third down and forces us to punt to end the half.
it may have been the worst coached NFL game i have ever seen.


don't forget Gunther who doesn't seem to have a single freakin clue when to blitz.


3rd and 13 - don't blitz
3rd and 8 - don't blitz
3rd and 3 - blitz
1st and 10 - blitz


i mean wtf :banghead:


ya ... goonther is 3rd and short so lets bring a outside blitz ... i mean a cornerback/safety waaaaaaay outside blitz. :cuss:


with only 3 yrds to go, it's going to be a running play or a quick pass so that dam outside blitz wasn't going to do jack regardless.

if you run ANY blitz on such a short yardage situation is needs to be a run stuffing type inside blitz that takes away the run and forces the cowboys to throw the ball or eat it.


we lost this game out of sheer stupidity. :(

Saulbadguy
12-12-2005, 04:57 PM
3rd and 13 - don't blitz
3rd and 8 - don't blitz
3rd and 3 - blitz
1st and 10 - blitz



"damn lag!"

Calcountry
12-12-2005, 06:21 PM
it may have been the worst coached NFL game i have ever seen.


don't forget Gunther who doesn't seem to have a single freakin clue when to blitz.


3rd and 13 - don't blitz
3rd and 8 - don't blitz
3rd and 3 - blitz
1st and 10 - blitz


i mean wtf :banghead:


ya ... goonther is 3rd and short so lets bring a outside blitz ... i mean a cornerback/safety waaaaaaay outside blitz. :cuss:


with only 3 yrds to go, it's going to be a running play or a quick pass so that dam outside blitz wasn't going to do jack regardless.

if you run ANY blitz on such a short yardage situation is needs to be a run stuffing type inside blitz that takes away the run and forces the cowboys to throw the ball or eat it.


we lost this game out of sheer stupidity. :(Which is why, after games like this, I seriously have to have a sit down with myself, and ask, "self, just why exactly do you give so much of a fug about that shit anyways." The wierd thing is, I never have a good answer. I let it turn to violent intentions towards the fat assed Tuna with the blue sweater on.

jjchieffan
12-12-2005, 06:32 PM
Yeah Gunther sucks. I guess he sucked the first time he was here too. I guess thats why he was brought back. I remember the excitement on here when the rumors started. Evryone was acting like it was too good to be true. Gunther is awesome. Maybe if he had his own staff, instead of GRobs the defense would be better. If DV retires, and hopefully GC is retained, look for him to wipe out his staff and bring in his kid of assistants. Dont say that wont help. Look what GC did for Tennessee LB corp

htismaqe
12-12-2005, 06:55 PM
Yeah Gunther sucks. I guess he sucked the first time he was here too. I guess thats why he was brought back. I remember the excitement on here when the rumors started. Evryone was acting like it was too good to be true. Gunther is awesome. Maybe if he had his own staff, instead of GRobs the defense would be better. If DV retires, and hopefully GC is retained, look for him to wipe out his staff and bring in his kid of assistants. Dont say that wont help. Look what GC did for Tennessee LB corp

Gunther had a HoFer plus Smith, Carter, and Hasty the last time around. Those guys can make any coach look good.

jjchieffan
12-12-2005, 08:27 PM
I bet they wouldn't have made GRob look good. But if you are arguing that it was the talent that made him so good, then why dont you believe that the talent now, or lack thereof is the reason he doesnt look so good now to you?