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View Full Version : Has Surtain been a bust thus far?


KCChiefsFan88
12-11-2005, 08:07 PM
Watching today's game makes me think more and more that he hasn't lived up to that fat contract the Chiefs signed him to this offseason. $50 million "shutdown" corners make the play on those gimme interceptions that have a chance to end critical drives in critical games. Also Surtain was torched on that flea flicker play.

Deberg_1990
12-11-2005, 08:10 PM
No, every corner gets burned every now and then. Wesley blew coverage (As Usual) on that flea flciker play as well. Did you see that coverage that Surtain had on Keyshawn in the endzone?? Excellent stuff.

Rain Man
12-11-2005, 08:11 PM
Surtain has been torched a few times, and it ticks me off that he won't run full speed to try to close the gap as he sees it coming. That said, he's played well overall this year other than a few lazy plays like that.

Truthfully, though, Warfield is outplaying him.

Guru
12-11-2005, 08:13 PM
No way. Even the very best miss an easy one. I hate to think what our record would be without him.

recxjake
12-11-2005, 08:13 PM
no... better then McCleon

shaneo69
12-11-2005, 08:14 PM
I would say Surtain has been good when he's been healthy. But his dropped INT cost us this game.

Well, that, and the fact that Trent fumbles every time he's sacked. At least when Plumber got jacked by DJ he held onto the f_cking ball.

Jim Jones
12-11-2005, 08:14 PM
Has Surtain been a solid corner? Yes.

Has Surtain been worth the enormous contract that he got?

NO

He's not playing any better than any of the Free Agent Cb's that were on the market.

Mecca
12-11-2005, 08:15 PM
It doesn't matter if you have 2 50 million dollar CB's. We have a 10 cent defensive line so they are going to make the Corners look bad.

We just got done making one of the worst Oline/offenses in the NFL look all world.

Guru
12-11-2005, 08:16 PM
I would say Surtain has been good when he's been healthy. But his dropped INT cost us this game.

Well, that, and the fact that Trent fumbles every time he's sacked. At least when Plumber got jacked by DJ he held onto the f_cking ball.

I am normally a Trent defender but I cannot argue with that point. Quite a few QBs drop the ball after that DJ hit. Please enjoy it again below.

JBucc
12-11-2005, 08:16 PM
I can't really think of one CB that lives up to their contract all the time.

Mecca
12-11-2005, 08:17 PM
I would say Surtain has been good when he's been healthy. But his dropped INT cost us this game.

Well, that, and the fact that Trent fumbles every time he's sacked. At least when Plumber got jacked by DJ he held onto the f_cking ball.

That's pretty much been the story of this year, touch Trent Green out comes the ball.

crazychiefsfan
12-11-2005, 08:20 PM
NO!

dj56dt58
12-11-2005, 08:20 PM
Surtain a bust? Are you kidding? He normally does shut his side of the field down and we was expecting safety help on that flea flicker so that's why he came up a little thinking it was a run. Unfortunatley Wesley wasn't back where he was supposed to be to help out.How often does Surtain get burned? How often do they even throw to his side of the field? Not very often. He has done what he is supposed to do and that's shut his guy down. It's the other side of the field that's normally having coverage problems, but that's mainly when we are in zone coverage. I say **** the zone and put surtain and warfield in more man to man coverage. And I don't know how Wesley has all those interceptions, he ****s his coverage every chance he gets. It's not Surtain at all. He is one of the best cover corners in the league IMO.

crazychiefsfan
12-11-2005, 08:21 PM
Watching today's game makes me think more and more that he hasn't lived up to that fat contract the Chiefs signed him to this offseason. $50 million "shutdown" corners make the play on those gimme interceptions that have a chance to end critical drives in critical games. Also Surtain was torched on that flea flicker play.

Yeah thats where the safety is suppose to help. OOPS!!

headsnap
12-11-2005, 08:23 PM
many games this season, you never heard surtan's name called by the announcers BECAUSE HE SHUT HIS SIDE OF THE FIELD DOWN!!!!

dirk digler
12-11-2005, 08:25 PM
I like Surtain. He is a very solid player but I think the scheme and our horrible D-Line really make things alot worse for our D-backs.

Also because of the rule changes any CB is going to struggle because they can no longer mug receivers like they use to. ie - Ty Law, Champ Bailey

ChiefsFanatic
12-11-2005, 08:25 PM
Watching today's game makes me think more and more that he hasn't lived up to that fat contract the Chiefs signed him to this offseason. $50 million "shutdown" corners make the play on those gimme interceptions that have a chance to end critical drives in critical games. Also Surtain was torched on that flea flicker play.

I think Bell is the biggest flop. He has made two plays all year. I would rather have Fujita in that spot. What the hell was Gunther thinking on that one?

FringeNC
12-11-2005, 08:25 PM
Has Surtain been a bust thus far?

Maybe. Who knows? He might be good if he played for a competent DC, but he's wasted playing for a moron like Gunther.

dj56dt58
12-11-2005, 08:26 PM
many games this season, you never heard surtan's name called by the announcers BECAUSE HE SHUT HIS SIDE OF THE FIELD DOWN!!!!

Thank you, couldn't have said it better.

CoMoChief
12-11-2005, 08:42 PM
Reasons why we lost this game....

1. No pass rush. Wasn't their line playing like one of the worst in the NFL? Why didn't we ever blitz?

2. Couldn't stop Marion Barber on 1st down. The guy averaged something like 7 yds a carry off of those retarded HB delays they ran all day. Thats a sign that we have no pressure up front in the middle. A high school team could convert on 2nd a 3.

3. Gave up the big play (again). That flea flicker would have beaten most teams in this league given the fact that it's so rarely used in a real game. That and we over persue so ****in much on stopping the run that as soon as I saw him toss it back to Bledsoe I threw the remote control in disgust.

4. Surtain SHOULD have caught that ball, instead he let it bobble around and hit himself in the head with it and dropped it. That would have sealed the game no doubt.

5. Obviously we all wish Kendall Gammon was suited up and in the game during the FG attempt. That FG was NOT Tynes' fault. It was a terrible snap and Colguitt was lucky enough to handle it and place it even enough for Tynes to get it off. Being late on the hold (due to the bad snap) cause Tynes to hault his momnetum for a sec or two and then try and push it through (because face it people, a 40yd FG isn't the easiest of FG's). I knew that sometime this season not having Gammon was gonna **** us over. Having that kind of consistency can go a long ways. Kinda like having Roaf as our LT on our offense. Without him our offense is shit.

AND THE BIGGEST REASON WHY WE LOST THIS GAME IS............(drumroll please)....................Dick Vermeil and co. decide to call a timeout with a minute and someodd seconds to go in the 1st half. What in the holy **** was he thinking while doing this. My only conclusion to this was that he wasn't paying any attention to the game. A 10 year playing Madden can tell you to run some time off the clock when about to score. Shit we were on the 9 ****in yard line were we not? Surely we can pound it in with the best Oline in the NFL. The worst that could happen is that we dont make the TD, but at least come away with a FG. At least we would have had the lead at halftime. The fumble recovery shifted the momentum to Dallas through out the entire game.

6. Our pass defense is shitty again. Partially because of our horrid pass rush, but Warfield got beat all game by Glenn. This just wasn't a good game for the defense at any position.

KCChiefsMan
12-11-2005, 08:57 PM
Surtain a bust?? absolutely NOT

Our only real bust I can think of is Kendrel Bell

Sure-Oz
12-11-2005, 09:09 PM
Not a bust, he is still our best CB and still very solid, we need a ****in pass rush

ChiefsCountry
12-11-2005, 09:12 PM
Umm, Bell is a natural pass rusher/run stuffer/blitzer. We have him in coverage, learning a new position. Its not like he is going to struggle some.

Dickies Prostate
12-11-2005, 09:35 PM
to be continued.

Valiant
12-11-2005, 10:02 PM
Man you ****ing Trent haters are morons... The guy gets blindsided 3 or 4 times a game and loses a fumble and its his fault.. Have you sackless wonders ever played football, right I remember the answer... NO...

Trent is one of the most hit Qb's this year and has only lost 4 fumbles.. You guys are ****ing jokes...

Sure-Oz
12-11-2005, 10:07 PM
I don't blame trent for that but LJ for getting bitch slapped, wtf can trent do there? nothing.

gcbroncos
12-12-2005, 01:01 AM
Watching today's game makes me think more and more that he hasn't lived up to that fat contract the Chiefs signed him to this offseason. $50 million "shutdown" corners make the play on those gimme interceptions that have a chance to end critical drives in critical games. Also Surtain was torched on that flea flicker play.


No way Surtain is a bust...he's one of the best corners in the business...it is hard for corners with the new rules...but he manages..

With that said...he had NO BUSINESS dropping that pick...the best can't let opportunities like that get away because they don't come much..

Surtain is good though...you're lucky to have him

Pants
12-12-2005, 01:05 AM
Man you ****ing Trent haters are morons... The guy gets blindsided 3 or 4 times a game and loses a fumble and its his fault.. Have you sackless wonders ever played football, right I remember the answer... NO...

Trent is one of the most hit Qb's this year and has only lost 4 fumbles.. You guys are ****ing jokes...

LOL, I thought the same thing, but then I remebered this was the knee-jerk-reaction-planet.

KCChiefsMan
12-12-2005, 01:07 AM
Man you ****ing Trent haters are morons... The guy gets blindsided 3 or 4 times a game and loses a fumble and its his fault.. Have you sackless wonders ever played football, right I remember the answer... NO...

Trent is one of the most hit Qb's this year and has only lost 4 fumbles.. You guys are ****ing jokes...


anybody who says Trent Green isn't very good after today's performance is a freaking retard, and any point they try to make is moot

Count Alex's Wins
12-12-2005, 02:43 AM
anybody who says Trent Green isn't very good after today's performance is a freaking retard, and any point they try to make is moot

I think it was the best game I've ever seen him play. Dallas has a great defense, and this was in Dallas.

I'm tired of the Chiefs wasting great football players.

plbrdude
12-12-2005, 07:44 AM
I am normally a Trent defender but I cannot argue with that point. Quite a few QBs drop the ball after that DJ hit. Please enjoy it again below.


he couldn't fumble it dj embedded it into his gut

harpes
12-12-2005, 09:20 AM
Whats the story with Bell? Is he doing his job and just not getting noticed or just another has been that another team wanted rid of?

ChiefsCountry
12-12-2005, 09:21 AM
Whats the story with Bell? Is he doing his job and just not getting noticed or just another has been that another team wanted rid of?

He is a middle linebacker that is being made into outside backer and he is adjusting to it.

the Talking Can
12-12-2005, 09:24 AM
I think it was the best game I've ever seen him play. Dallas has a great defense, and this was in Dallas.

I'm tired of the Chiefs wasting great football players.

amen

ChiTown
12-12-2005, 09:38 AM
Bell has been a bigger bust. He's generally someone's bitch just about every game. Surtain hasn't killed us, but he certainly hasn't been the great "play maker" that I thought he'd be.

Re: Bell
Just goes to show that he should be playing on the inside. He's completely worthless playing ROLB. jmho

StcChief
12-12-2005, 11:17 AM
No. everybody get's burned occasional especially in an attacking defense.

Cochise
12-12-2005, 11:20 AM
Whats the story with Bell? Is he doing his job and just not getting noticed or just another has been that another team wanted rid of?

Every game I have been to this year, he's been in coverage most every snap. I've not often seem him looking bad... if the coaches are asked about him, they all say he's doing a good job.

He's not garbage by any means, less effective outside than inside? Sure.

chief118
12-12-2005, 01:10 PM
SURTAIN IS NOT A BUST. WE NEED TO GET MORE PRESSURE ONTHE QB GET RID OF ERIC HICKS AND GET A DT THAT CAN RUSH THE PASSER. JOHN ABERHAM WANTS TO BE TRADED. HICKS NEEDS TO GO. WE NEED PRESSURE. IT WILL HELP OUR D OUT A LOT. THEN THE SECONDARY WONT BE SO BAD

easymobee
12-12-2005, 01:25 PM
Not a bust, he is still our best CB and still very solid, we need a ****in pass rush

There are a lot of parallels for the average Chief and Bronco fan as of late.

This is what we went through with Champ last year.

Once the pass rush improved (Only 20 sacks, but the pressures have at least doubled) Champ started looking like best case scenario Champ.

You guys have Jared Allen already in place, if you get another impact pass rushing DLineman in that rotation then you will go from a good CB w/ a big name to a great CB.

As for the thread question ... Surtain isn't a bust at all (Although if he was a Bronco this year w/ the same exact amount of production and everything else ... im sure you guys would be voting overwhelmingly that he was a bust)

TRR
12-12-2005, 01:30 PM
Surtain is in the same category with Kendrell Bell...Misused. Surtain's biggest strength is man on man coverage allowing him to make plays. You know how many times I've counted Surtain run down the sideline with the WR, stride for stride, and then pass him off to the safety? Or strictly play an area on the field.

Same goes for Kendrell Bell who plays coverage on 1st and 2nd down, and then is taken out on 3rd down.

DanT
12-12-2005, 01:42 PM
I've been very happy with Patrick Surtain's play, especially given that he was a high-profile free agent at a position where "regression effects" tend to make good players seem like disappointments (a phenomenon at work in "the sophomore slump" and the "SI Cover jinx", as well.)

Also, I wouldn't call that potential interception he didn't catch, an "easy interception". To me, an easy interception is one that one would expect an NFL starter to catch 7 or 8 times out of 10. I doubt that a barely tipped and wobbly pass from that distance could even be caught by the average NFL receiver more than 6 or 7 times out of 10, let alone a defensive back. I bet the average NFL running back couldn't even make that catch 5 times out of 10. If you watch those preseason NFL skills competitions, you might have some sense for why I have this opinion. Even spirals from a short distance from either a machine or a QB are not sure catches. A wobbly and low trajectory pass that was tipped a short distance away and that arrives above the lower bar of the facemask to a defensive back doesn't strike me as something that a DB should be expected to be able to catch 7 or 8 times out of 10.

I don't fault Surtain for not making that catch.

A long snap on a field goal is something that should be placed well at least 8 or 9 times out of 10. Watching the failed FG attempt at the end of the game, I immediately saw that the snap was bad, since the holder had to twist his torso too much in order to catch it.

I still like this particular edition of the Chiefs. I can see them winning the next 3 games. That'll be tough to do, but I think this year's squad is one that could pull it off.

Jim Jones
12-12-2005, 01:43 PM
The INT that Surtain dropped would have put the game away.

You can call it a "freak" play that won't happen again, but how many other chances will he have like that? It bounced RIGHT into his hands.

$50 MILLION DOLLAR MAN SHOULD HAVE CAUGHT THAT, NO EXCUSES!

Fishpicker
12-12-2005, 01:43 PM
Surtain is in the same category with Kendrell Bell...Misused. Surtain's biggest strength is man on man coverage allowing him to make plays. You know how many times I've counted Surtain run down the sideline with the WR, stride for stride, and then pass him off to the safety? Or strictly play an area on the field.

Same goes for Kendrell Bell who plays coverage on 1st and 2nd down, and then is taken out on 3rd down.


too true. we're playing zone on the wrong side of the field. if ever there was a corner that should sit in the flat waiting to make a hit... it is
Warfield. Surtain should follow his man where-ever, whomever

dbroncos31
12-12-2005, 06:38 PM
these excuses for surtain seem similar to our excuses for bailey last year...how come they're valid all of a sudden??

easymobee
12-13-2005, 12:37 AM
these excuses for surtain seem similar to our excuses for bailey last year...how come they're valid all of a sudden??

That pretty much killed the thread.

Oh Snap
12-13-2005, 12:48 AM
Surtain has been torched a few times, and it ticks me off that he won't run full speed to try to close the gap as he sees it coming. That said, he's played well overall this year other than a few lazy plays like that.

Truthfully, though, Warfield is outplaying him.

No one usually throws to Surtains side. Surtain has been tested one time that I can remember and that was against the fins. He shutdown chambers! Warfield has had more oportunitys to make plays on the ball because he sees the ball go his way more. But he has played good even then.. I think its going to take this defense a little longer to gell then we all thought it would.. It could take till next year.. I just hope it wont be to late for our offense..

Wa-Z
12-13-2005, 01:52 AM
No...I don't want to know how much worse our Pass D would've been without him.

Johnson&Johnson
12-13-2005, 02:29 AM
I think Surtain is not playing at full strength. With that said, i am giving him the benefit of the doubt for now.

But i do feel that he could have helped us seal the victory had he picked up that pick-6 deflected by Dallas TE.