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Johnson&Johnson
12-13-2005, 02:36 AM
http://nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

Everyone is having some sort of opinion on how the tie-breakers work. It's different now since NFL went to the 4 division per conference.

easymobee
12-13-2005, 02:42 AM
I'd love to see one of these things go all the way down to the Coin toss.

Guru
12-13-2005, 02:46 AM
If they can find a coin to flip with.

cdcox
12-13-2005, 07:48 AM
http://nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

Everyone is having some sort of opinion on how the tie-breakers work. It's different now since NFL went to the 4 division per conference.

Most people know about the official list of tiebreakers that you linked to. Its been posted on this bulliten board at least 10 times over the last few weeks. What most of the dicussion is about is how they are applied. It's tricky if you haven't been through them a few times. Several posters do it correctly, but the majority screw it up somewhere along the way. Flannagan in the Star applies them correctly, so if you have any doubts, check his articles.

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 09:22 AM
Guys lets try to simplify.

We win out we are in.

In a 3 way tie with Pitt, SD and the chiefs, Pitt gets the playoff spot.

Any 2 way ties with either Pitt or SD, the Chiefs get the playoff spot.

How's that cdcox?

phxchief
12-13-2005, 11:36 AM
http://nfl.com/standings/tiebreakers

Everyone is having some sort of opinion on how the tie-breakers work. It's different now since NFL went to the 4 division per conference.

Say "no" to David Carr.

MichaelH
12-13-2005, 11:44 AM
That's really strange. In a three way tie with Pitt, they win but in a two way tie with Pitt, we win.

carlos3652
12-13-2005, 12:34 PM
That's really strange. In a three way tie with Pitt, they win but in a two way tie with Pitt, we win.

In a three way tie we lose to SD on common games, and Pitt beats SD on head to head...

In a two way time we beat Pitt on Conference record.

I think this is right...

Hoover
12-13-2005, 12:52 PM
Dallas Cowboys 28-24 L (SAME)
Denver Broncos 20-17 L (SAME)
New York Giants 45-23 W (Chiefs Play this week!!)
New England Patriots 41-17 W (SAME)
Pittsburgh Steelers 24-22 L (Chiefs do not play)
Oakland Raiders 27-14 W (SAME)
Philadelphia Eagles 20-17 L (SAME)
Kansas City Chiefs 28-20 W (Chiefs Lost) Head to Head
New York Jets 31-26 W (SAME)
Buffalo Bills 48-10 W (Chiefs Lost)
Washington Redskins 23-17 W (OT) (SAME)
Oakland Raiders 34-10 W (SAME)
Miami Dolphins 23-21 L (Chiefs Won)
Indianapolis Colts TBD (Chiefs do not play)
Kansas City Chiefs TBD (Chiefs Have to win to move to next tie-breakers
Denver Broncos TBD (Chiefs Won)

The Chiefs and Chargers have each won vs these common teams.
New England
Oakland Ė Twice
Jets
Redskins

They each lost to
Dallas
Denver
Philly

The Chiefs won vs Miami, the Charges lost to Miami
The Chargers won vs the Bills and the Chiefs lost to the Bills

Upcoming Games
We must beat SD at home to get to this tie breaker
Chiefs play NYG this week, the Chargers beat them already
Chiefs play Denver the last wee, we already split with Denver.

Over all Iím confident we grab a playoff spot in front of the Chargers


Steelers

TITANS W 34-7 (Donít Play)
@ Texans W 27-7 (SAME)
PATRIOTS L 20-23 (Chiefs Won)
Chargers W 24-22 (Chiefs Lost once, play again)
JAGUARS L 23-17 (Donít Play)
Bengals W 27-13 (Chiefs yet to play)
RAVENS W 20-19 (Donít Play)
Packers W 20-10 (Donít Play)
BROWNS W 34-21 (Donít Play)
Ravens L 16-13 (Donít Play)
Colts L 26-7 (Donít Play)
BENGALS L 38-31 (Chiefs yet to play)
BEARS W 21-9 (Donít Play)
Sunday, Dec. 18 @ Vikings 1:00 p.m. (Donít Play)
Saturday, Dec. 24 @ Browns 1:00 p.m. (Donít Play)
Sunday, Jan. 1 LIONS 1:00 p.m. (Donít Play)

Chiefs/Steelers Common Opponents

Texans (Both Teams Won)
Pats (Chiefs Won, Steelers Lost)
Chargers (Chiefs Split if they win upcoming game)
Bengals (Steelers Split, Chiefs yet to play)

If we can get the same over all record, I feel really good about the tie breakers!

Conclusion: Chiefs make the playoffs.

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 12:54 PM
That's really strange. In a three way tie with Pitt, they win but in a two way tie with Pitt, we win.
3 way tie a "divisional" record is used for a tiebreaker

2 way tie "conference" record in used for the tie breaker

Hoover
12-13-2005, 12:56 PM
In a three way tie we lose to SD on common games, and Pitt beats SD on head to head...

In a two way time we beat Pitt on Conference record.

I think this is right...
no no no

If the Chiefs are tied with the Chargers we have to use the divisional tie breakers first, so if we have the same record, and beat the Chargers we are in due to conference record.

Then we go against the Steelers, and our common record assuming a Chiefs win vs San Diago is better.

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 01:12 PM
no no no

If the Chiefs are tied with the Chargers we have to use the divisional tie breakers first, so if we have the same record, and beat the Chargers we are in due to conference record.

Then we go against the Steelers, and our common record assuming a Chiefs win vs San Diago is better.
post #10 explains this.

2 way tie with the Chargers or Pitt, we are in.

3 way tie with SD, Chiefs and Pitt, Pitt is in.


3 way tie a "divisional" record is used for a tiebreaker

2 way tie "conference" record in used for the tie breaker

Hoover
12-13-2005, 01:19 PM
What does this mean then?

Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.

Hoover
12-13-2005, 01:21 PM
So doesn't that take us to the Conference Standing? Pitt is 6-5 right now with only one more game to play in the AFC. So at best they are 7-5. The Chiefs are currently 7-3, with 2 more AFC games to play. We all know we have to beat the Chargers to have any shot at the playoff so that puts us 8-4 at the worst.

MichaelH
12-13-2005, 01:25 PM
SEE! It is confusing. :)

Just win baby!

chagrin
12-13-2005, 01:29 PM
Jaworski broke it down yesterday, basically it's going to come doen to the game the CHIEFS play against SD, since we're both going to lose 1 of the last few games.

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 01:31 PM
What does this mean then?

if a 3 way tie a "divisional" record is used for a tiebreaker

TO BREAK A TIE WITHIN A DIVISION
If, at the end of the regular season, two or more clubs in the same division finish with identical won-lost-tied percentages, the following steps will be taken until a champion is determined.

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference




If its a 2 way tie "conference" record in used for the tie breaker


TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.
1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps. Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
4. Strength of victory.
5. Strength of schedule.

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.

chagrin
12-13-2005, 01:32 PM
Then again, one wise man once said:

"If we win all of our next games were in the playoffs which there is no doubt we wont do cuase were the chiefs trent green is on fire lately and with johnson in the backfield right now were unstopable if you know what im sayin"

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 01:34 PM
SEE! It is confusing. :)

Just win baby!

Beg to differ. The tiebreakers can only fall like this.

We win out we are in.

In a 3 way tie with Pitt, SD and the chiefs, Pitt gets the playoff spot.

Any 2 way ties with either Pitt or SD, the Chiefs get the playoff spot.

morphius
12-13-2005, 01:35 PM
Hoover is correct, the 3 way tie would come into play if all teams were from different divisions. If two teams are from the same division, then you run a tie breaker there first and then against the other teams in the confrence.

Hoover
12-13-2005, 01:36 PM
TO BREAK A TIE FOR THE WILD-CARD TEAM
If it is necessary to break ties to determine the two Wild-Card clubs from each conference, the following steps will be taken.
1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
2. If the tied clubs are from different divisions, apply the following steps.

Two Clubs
1. Head-to-head, if applicable.
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
4. Strength of victory.
5. Strength of schedule.
6. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
7. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best net points in conference games.
9. Best net points in all games.
10. Best net touchdowns in all games.
11. Coin toss.

Three or More Clubs
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of applicable two-club format.)
1. Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. The original seeding within a division upon application of the division tie breaker remains the same for all subsequent applications of the procedure that are necessary to identify the two Wild-Card participants.
2. Head-to-head sweep. (Applicable only if one club has defeated each of the others or if one club has lost to each of the others.)
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Best won-lost-tied percentage in common games, minimum of four.
5. Strength of victory.
6. Strength of schedule.
7. Best combined ranking among conference teams in points scored and points allowed.
8. Best combined ranking among all teams in points scored and points allowed.
9. Best net points in conference games.
10. Best net points in all games.
11. Best net touchdowns in all games.
12. Coin toss

Hoover
12-13-2005, 01:37 PM
THATS RIGHT MOTHERFU@KERS CHIEFS IN THE PLAYOFFS BABY!

Hoover
12-13-2005, 01:38 PM
Hmm, I should have just siad that!

Thanks man.

morphius
12-13-2005, 01:38 PM
1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.

Hoover
12-13-2005, 01:39 PM
1. If the tied clubs are from the same division, apply division tie breaker.
thanks!

morphius
12-13-2005, 01:43 PM
thanks!
It's sad that I have had all the knowledge about the playoff's locked up in my head with so few reasons to actually use it.

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 01:55 PM
It's sad that I have had all the knowledge about the playoff's locked up in my head with so few reasons to actually use it.

So this is right?

We win out we are in.

In a 3 way tie with Pitt, SD and the chiefs, Pitt gets the playoff spot.

Any 2 way ties with either Pitt or SD, the Chiefs get the playoff spot.

morphius
12-13-2005, 01:59 PM
So this is right?

We win out we are in.

In a 3 way tie with Pitt, SD and the chiefs, Pitt gets the playoff spot.

Any 2 way ties with either Pitt or SD, the Chiefs get the playoff spot.
Basically this three way tie (Chiefs, SD, Pit) would work like two two-way ties.

Because both the Chiefs and Chargers are in the same division, a division tie rule would be put in place. The winner of that tie breaker would then be compared with confrence tie breaker rules against the Steelers.

BigRedChief
12-13-2005, 02:02 PM
Basically this three way tie (Chiefs, SD, Pit) would work like two two-way ties.

Because both the Chiefs and Chargers are in the same division, a division tie rule would be put in place. The winner of that tie breaker would then be compared with confrence tie breaker rules against the Steelers.

But not all 3 teams are in the same division.

Doesn't it say if 3 teams are tied the first step is to use the "divisional" tie breaker.

morphius
12-13-2005, 02:08 PM
But not all 3 teams are in the same division.

Doesn't it say if 3 teams are tied the first step is to use the "divisional" tie breaker.
It says use the divisional tie breaker first, so that the best team out of that division (via the rules) goes up against the best teams in the other divisions.

For giggles assume that Pit, Balt, KC, and SD were all tied at the end of the year for both playoff spots.

First you would use divisional tie breakers, so it would be KC vs SD and Balt vs Pit. Assuming KC and Pit win those tie breakers, and KC wins the tie breaker over Pit. KC goes to the playoff's.

Then for the second spot you would again apply divisional ties rules for Pit and Balt and the winner (Pit) would go up against SD with the confrence rules.

Making sense?

Chiefnj
12-13-2005, 02:19 PM
The tiebreaker analysis hurts my head.

All that matters is KC is out right now. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2255786

Only if the Chiefs win the next two and are up on the Bengals by 20 points with 2 minutes left will I worry about the tiebreaker stuff.

Hoover
12-13-2005, 02:20 PM
Then after that we go to the Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

The best Pitt can do is 8-5 in the AFC

The Chiefs if they win vs the Chargers would be 8-3, and no way that Pitt can beat then in that tie breaker.

Hoover
12-13-2005, 02:26 PM
The tiebreaker analysis hurts my head.

All that matters is KC is out right now. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2255786

Only if the Chiefs win the next two and are up on the Bengals by 20 points with 2 minutes left will I worry about the tiebreaker stuff.
Sure the Chiefs would be out if the Playoff Started today, the 6,7 and 8 spots all have the same overall record.

The most important game is vs the Chargers, we have t win that one or nothing else matters. That said we have to take care of business this week.

However the Chiefs, Chargers and Steelers could all still lose this week (they are all on the road). Like I said, the first one of these 3 teams to 10 wins is going to be in the playoffs.