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View Full Version : Attn: Hi Def lovers


Skip Towne
12-20-2005, 07:37 PM
Now I have proof it is not my imagination. Today I did a 4 TV install with three standards and one Hi Def. As it happened, myself and the customer were able to stand at a point where we could see both the Hi Def and one of the standards at the same time. The Hi Def was hooked to a big screen Mitsubishi and the standard to a 27" Sony. I told him about you clowns worshipping the Hi Def and asked for his opinion. He agreed the standard was every bit as good as the Hi Def. But he said it did improve the picture on the Mitsubishi big screen by about 10% over the Dish Notwork he had on it before I arrived.

Saulbadguy
12-20-2005, 07:38 PM
Were you tuned to a hi-def channel?

Claynus
12-20-2005, 07:39 PM
Compare a hi-def HDTV setup next to a standard HDTV setup (with no HD tuner) and you'll see the difference.

JBucc
12-20-2005, 07:41 PM
:shrug:

dtebbe
12-20-2005, 07:45 PM
A chic once told me I looked better than Tom Cruise...

DT

Skip Towne
12-20-2005, 07:48 PM
Were you tuned to a hi-def channel?
Yep. HBO channel 509. I think it improves the quality of a big screen but not a small screen if you use the s video hookup on the small screen. Also, how much a customer notices a difference depends on what he had before. If he was on an off air antenna or a small town cable system he will really notice a big difference. If he is already on Directv, not much.

Claynus
12-20-2005, 07:48 PM
It's simple math, Skip.

1920x1080 > 640x480

Just watch an HD channel and then switch to an SD channel...the difference is huge.

Saulbadguy
12-20-2005, 07:49 PM
Yep. HBO channel 509. I think it improves the quality of a big screen but not a small screen if you use the s video hookup on the small screen. Also, how much a customer notices a difference deends on what he had before. If he was on an off air antenna or a small town cable system he will really notice a big difference. If he is already on Directv, not much.
Skip,

HD signals can not be transmitted over an S-Video cable. Therefore, there should not be a discernable difference on the smaller screen television.

Claynus
12-20-2005, 07:49 PM
I think it improves the quality of a big screen but not a small screen if you use the s video hookup on the small screen.

Most small screens aren't set up to take advantage of such a hi-resolution signal.

I know I wouldn't want a Hi-Def signal if I didn't have an HD-ready widescreen TV.

Skip Towne
12-20-2005, 07:53 PM
Skip,

HD signals can not be transmitted over an S-Video cable. Therefore, there should not be a discernable difference on the smaller screen television.
Read it again. The small screen standard unit was using s video. The HD doesn't have jacks for either s video or coax cable. Thanks for playing though, n00b.

Claynus
12-20-2005, 08:01 PM
Here's an excellent comparison using Madden 2006:

SD

http://www.hdbeat.com/images/2005/12/madden_sd.jpg

HD

http://www.hdbeat.com/images/2005/12/madden_hd.jpg

Claynus
12-20-2005, 08:03 PM
Yet another comparison, using the TV show "Lost"

Lost in SD (http://img57.exs.cx/img57/60/lost-sd.jpg)

Lost in HD (http://img57.exs.cx/img57/6793/lost-hdtv.jpg)

Herzig
12-20-2005, 08:03 PM
How old was the other guy? Did he have his glasses on? Did you have your glasses on?

As a science teacher, I think that you could only do this test with 2 TV's that were the same make and model with the same hook ups. I can definitely tell the difference with DVD's on my HDTV over DTV with S video. Is it worth the price difference yet? No.

Saulbadguy
12-20-2005, 08:04 PM
I think Skip, and his customer base, are a minority. Not really worth arguing about it anymore.

4th and Long
12-20-2005, 08:07 PM
I can tell you that when I went to an electronics store recently, they has two indetical televisions set up side by side. Both of them were big screen. Both were on the same channel, playing the exact same thing. The Hi-Def picture blew the standard picture right the hell out of the water. No comparison whatsoever.
I think Skip, and his customer base, are a minority. Not really worth arguing about it anymore.
Thread Killer! :p

Frazod
12-20-2005, 08:12 PM
Skip forgot to mention that his three other installs today were those new-fangled telegraph machines.

KCwolf
12-20-2005, 08:18 PM
This thread is ridiculous....anyone who has ever seen "true" Hi-Def can tell you -- it's nearly unbeatable. Especially vs. Standard TV...OMG.
That's like saying, " my brother just watched the Chiefs game and say's they look just like Indy" Clueless.

Skip Towne
12-20-2005, 08:21 PM
How old was the other guy? Did he have his glasses on? Did you have your glasses on?

As a science teacher, I think that you could only do this test with 2 TV's that were the same make and model with the same hook ups. I can definitely tell the difference with DVD's on my HDTV over DTV with S video. Is it worth the price difference yet? No.
I really don't want to argue about it either. Just reporting what I'm seeing. I quit posting on the last thread about it. If guys think it is worth the thousands they spend on it, who am I to argue? Dtebbe seems to know more about it than anybody I've seen and he will tell you (at least he did on this forum) that his buddies didn't notice it till he pointed it out to them. I'm out.

tk13
12-20-2005, 08:38 PM
It's not even remotely close. You aren't doing it right.

And I don't even have DirecTV, but 509 is a standard definition channel isn't it? HBO HD is channel 70. Try that against channel 501 then come back and tell us what you think. Putting a SD broadcast on an HDTV won't look any different, you actually gotta put HD programming into it. It's like buying a fancy new driver then using it to hit walnuts, you can't get the full effect unless you actually hit golf balls.

tk13
12-20-2005, 08:41 PM
Nevermind, I guess 509 is HD. I don't have DTV, I thought all the HD channels on there were under 100. You're just blind.

Saulbadguy
12-20-2005, 08:42 PM
It's not even remotely close. You aren't doing it right.

And I don't even have DirecTV, but 509 is a standard definition channel. HBO HD is channel 70. Try that against channel 501 then come back and tell us what you think. Putting a SD broadcast on an HDTV won't look any different, you actually gotta put HD programming into it. It's like buying a fancy new driver then using it to hit walnuts, you can't get the full effect unless you actually hit golf balls.
DirecTV.com lists 509 as "HBO HDTV"

I don't really think there is a huge difference on the movie channels.

Try Discovery HD, Skip.

memyselfI
12-20-2005, 08:45 PM
I didn't want to believe it either....

then we went shopping for a new TV for our living room. We weren't even in the market for a HDTV or a widescreen. But after looking at the pictures and seeing the difference in the store we were sold enough to take the TV home and see what it could do for us there.

Now, I don't think I can watch 'regular' TV again. Certainly not when watching sports, especially football.

tk13
12-20-2005, 08:46 PM
Yeah, I see that, pretty much everybody in my family has Dish or cable, so I'm behind on this stuff, used to have DTV a long time ago. It really depends on the movie you watch. Older movies don't look as good as newer movies do. Sports probably does it the most justice because you can see the shadows on the field and the details on people's faces and such.

theultimatekcchiefsfan
12-20-2005, 08:48 PM
Now I have proof it is not my imagination. Today I did a 4 TV install with three standards and one Hi Def. As it happened, myself and the customer were able to stand at a point where we could see both the Hi Def and one of the standards at the same time. The Hi Def was hooked to a big screen Mitsubishi and the standard to a 27" Sony. I told him about you clowns worshipping the Hi Def and asked for his opinion. He agreed the standard was every bit as good as the Hi Def. But he said it did improve the picture on the Mitsubishi big screen by about 10% over the Dish Notwork he had on it before I arrived.


Stop it man, you're killing me........................

:shake:

theultimatekcchiefsfan
12-20-2005, 08:50 PM
Skip,

HD signals can not be transmitted over an S-Video cable. Therefore, there should not be a discernable difference on the smaller screen television.


We have a winner. :clap:

Anyway, when you see true HD broadcast there really is no comparison.

Great comparison pictures GoChiefs.

TopJet2
12-20-2005, 08:52 PM
It seems to me that the best HD to watch are either live events or the good stuff that discovery puts out. I also really like the imax movies that are put on HD.

theultimatekcchiefsfan
12-20-2005, 08:55 PM
Outdoor sporting events during the day look the best.

No doubt about it. A game inside a dome is not nearly as good looking.

Halfcan
12-20-2005, 08:56 PM
I thought this thread was about Def Leppard?

Claynus
12-20-2005, 09:04 PM
Carrie Underwood in HD makes me feel funny. http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2797/cloud94au.gif

Halfcan
12-20-2005, 09:06 PM
David Hasselhoff in HD makes me feel funny. http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2797/cloud94au.gif

HemiEd
12-20-2005, 09:10 PM
The difference is phenominal, especially on my 50 inch plasma. It was very nice on my CRT set but the Plasma difference is dramatic. Is the Mitsubishi a projection? If so, it would take a lot to make it look close to a CRT Sony.

morphius
12-20-2005, 09:12 PM
I didn't want to believe it either....

then we went shopping for a new TV for our living room. We weren't even in the market for a HDTV or a widescreen. But after looking at the pictures and seeing the difference in the store we were sold enough to take the TV home and see what it could do for us there.

Now, I don't think I can watch 'regular' TV again. Certainly not when watching sports, especially football.
Yup, I remember the first time I saw football in HD. On one of the side line interviews where you normally only see the person being interviewed and some people standing near them. In the HD picture you could see the numbers of all the players in the middle of the field behind them, and see the crowd beyond that. Sorry, you just are not going to get that with your S-video picture.

A lot of it is in what you watch and how much you can take in.

Claynus
12-20-2005, 09:18 PM
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2797/cloud94au.gif

http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/4884/pdvd0024wv.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Smoke
12-20-2005, 09:35 PM
It seems to me that the best HD to watch are either live events or the good stuff that discovery puts out. I also really like the imax movies that are put on HD.

Topjet has got it right. HD movies for the most part are not that different. Do this set up with ESPN vs ESPNHD and it's two different worlds.

BigRedChief
12-20-2005, 09:42 PM
I saw my first Chiefs game in High -Def this weekend on my new 52 in TV. It was the same experiece as going from dial up to broadband. I'll never go back to regular TV.

Logical
12-20-2005, 10:15 PM
It's not even remotely close. You aren't doing it right.

And I don't even have DirecTV, but 509 is a standard definition channel isn't it? HBO HD is channel 70. Try that against channel 501 then come back and tell us what you think. Putting a SD broadcast on an HDTV won't look any different, you actually gotta put HD programming into it. It's like buying a fancy new driver then using it to hit walnuts, you can't get the full effect unless you actually hit golf balls.509 is the HBO High def channel on Direct TV

DRU
12-20-2005, 10:15 PM
You're insane if you think HD isn't 10 fold better than standard digital cable. Of course, s-video can't handle true HD, but, S-video is what I use to capture my Chiefs games and those of you who've downloaded my clips can attest to the fact that the quality is better than digital cable even though it wasn't truely an HD capture and it's been compressed.

If you were watching a standard TV and an HD TV next to each other and can't tell a difference then something more than just the s-video is wrong. But again, you need components or DVI to really get HD displayed.

Logical
12-20-2005, 10:30 PM
I have HiDef and I tell you that I am not all that impresssed people sound like it is some sort of night and day difference. On my brand new LCD 52 inch Mitsubishi there is a barely discernable difference, yes it is slightly better but if I did not have tons of disposable income there is no way I could justify the difference. In that regard Skip is right. The only way I was able to tell the difference was to put the High Def ESPN in the main picture and the regular version of the same ESPN channel in the PIP. Yes I could tell by doing it but I think you all are comparing apples and oranges somehow to see some sort of huge difference.

Claynus
12-20-2005, 10:44 PM
Dude. Just look at the pictures I posted from Lost.

Huge difference.

Munson
12-20-2005, 10:46 PM
If you couldn't tell the difference between HD and SD, then either you need glasses, or there is something wrong with the tv.

I watched the Chiefs/Texans game on ESPN-HD, on a brand new 60' widescreen Sony SXRD HDTV. The picture was so clear, so defined, that I was absolutely blown away. You could see the marks on their helmets, the rips in the jerseys, and almost any other detail you can imagine.

I was watching Sportscenter on ESPN-HD the other day. I almost didn't recognize a couple of the anchors because I could see details in their faces that I couldn't see on the regular ESPN channel. You can see the wrinkles on their faces, and made them look 20 years older.

You can see this same amount of detail on any of the HD channels, like Discovery HD, HBO HD, etc. Once you see any channel in HD, all the SD channels look like garbage.

Logical
12-20-2005, 10:47 PM
Dude. Just look at the pictures I posted from Lost.

Huge difference.Dude I looked at the difference on the same TV at the same time with the same sports programming from ESPN.:shake:

Logical
12-20-2005, 10:49 PM
...

I watched the Chiefs/Texans game on ESPN-HD, on a brand new 60' widescreen Sony SXRD HDTV. The picture was so clear, so defined, that I was absolutely blown away. You could see the marks on their helmets, the rips in the jerseys, and almost any other detail you can imagine.

....I can see all that on either picture

The Bad Guy
12-20-2005, 10:50 PM
Skip,

Get your glasses checked immediately.

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 10:58 PM
I have HiDef and I tell you that I am not all that impresssed people sound like it is some sort of night and day difference. On my brand new LCD 52 inch Mitsubishi there is a barely discernable difference, yes it is slightly better but if I did not have tons of disposable income there is no way I could justify the difference. In that regard Skip is right. The only way I was able to tell the difference was to put the High Def ESPN in the main picture and the regular version of the same ESPN channel in the PIP. Yes I could tell by doing it but I think you all are comparing apples and oranges somehow to see some sort of huge difference.

FWIW LCD is the worst picture of the CRT, DLP, LCD, Plasma group

The Bad Guy
12-20-2005, 11:00 PM
FWIW LCD is the worst picture of the CRT, DLP, LCD, Plasma group

I would disagree with this statement.

I have a new Sony LCD and it blew away the pictures on the DLP Samsung right next to it.

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 11:01 PM
I would disagree with this statement.

I have a new Sony LCD and it blew away the pictures on the DLP Samsung right next to it.

To be fair, compare it to all Sony products.

ragedogg69
12-20-2005, 11:13 PM
i can only give the opinion of what my eyes see. and they see hdtv being head and sholders over SD. doing picture and picture is not a fair comparison because you are reducing the size of the SD "box". so you eyes see you just assume you are seeing details....

#1 problem with HDTV is millions of people think they are seeing it but they still need an HD Decoder. instead they watch their analog crap saying "HDTV is overrated" (im not assuming anyone here has made that mistake, but millions do)

and HBO is a horrible network to do a comparison. first its film based transfer that wont be are clear and second, on directv they dumb down the bitrate and scan rate so that takes away from the picture.

compare a nice cbs hd football game from you affiliate then we will talk.

Logical
12-20-2005, 11:15 PM
FWIW LCD is the worst picture of the CRT, DLP, LCD, Plasma groupOK Plasma is better no question but not worth the bucks to get 50" plus Plasma screens. I have never seen 50 inch plus CRTs and even if they exist who can move them. DLP and LCD are very much equivalent.

Miles
12-20-2005, 11:19 PM
FWIW LCD is the worst picture of the CRT, DLP, LCD, Plasma group

It depends a large part in how well the technology is applied to individual sets. There are medicore as well as excellent products in all of those types.

SLAG
12-20-2005, 11:19 PM
got a rp crt and it kicks ass....

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 11:21 PM
OK Plasma is better no question but not worth the bucks to get 50" plus Plasma screens. I have never seen 50 inch plus CRTs and even if they exist who can move them. DLP and LCD are very much equivalent.

CRT Projection is what I'm comparing.

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 11:23 PM
It depends a large part in how well the technology is applied to individual sets. There are medicore as well as excellent products in all of those types.

Thats why I said compare it across the same brand.
I still dont believe that any TV is more natural and clearer than a projection HD CRT.
HD CRT-based rear-projection technology can produce the blackest blacks of all projection types as well as the full range of color, and brightness, giving a CRT projector the ability to produce the most film-like images of projectors for home use (up to this point).

Miles
12-20-2005, 11:29 PM
Thats why I said compare it across the same brand.
I still dont believe that any TV is more natural and clearer than a projection HD CRT.

Yeah a well tuned RP CRT can look pretty damn good in the better models. Though I don't think they are making them all that much anymore.

I still prefer the image of a nice plasma but its obviously a decent amount more expensive.

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 11:35 PM
Yeah a well tuned RP CRT can look pretty damn good in the better models. Though I don't think they are making them all that much anymore.

I still prefer the image of a nice plasma but its obviously a decent amount more expensive.

It boils down to black and whites. If you like true black then CRT wins hands down, if you like a bright picture then LCD and the rest are brighter. To me though, the CRT picture overall is still better than the Plasma.

SLAG
12-20-2005, 11:37 PM
It boils down to black and whites. If you like true black then CRT wins hands down, if you like a bright picture then LCD and the rest are brighter. To me though, the CRT picture overall is still better than the Plasma.

I got a 48" JVC and I feel it looks better than Most LCD

Claynus
12-20-2005, 11:40 PM
Just turn the damn lights off in your living room and a projection CRT has plenty of brightness.

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 11:41 PM
I got a 48" JVC and I feel it looks better than Most LCD

Thats because its the better contrasting picture.

C-Mac
12-20-2005, 11:43 PM
Just turn the damn lights off in your living room and a projection CRT has plenty of brightness.

No doubt CRT still rules in the contrast war.

Dartgod
12-20-2005, 11:53 PM
A 27" standard def vs. a 50" Hi def is no comaprison. Compare 50" standard against 50" High def and the hi-def wins hands down.

Logical
12-20-2005, 11:59 PM
My 65 inch RP has an absolutely magnificent picture with fantastic contrast and brightness. I have no complaints about it whatsoever.

C-Mac
12-21-2005, 12:04 AM
My 65 inch RP has an absolutely magnificent picture with fantastic contrast and brightness. I have no complaints about it whatsoever.

If it didnt you wouldnt have bought it, but its still not as natural a picture as a CRT.

Logical
12-21-2005, 12:33 AM
If it didnt you wouldnt have bought it, but its still not as natural a picture as a CRT.It is a rear project CRT I am not sure what you talking about. Is there such a thing as a regular Tube CRT in a 65" size? I did a google search and found nothing.

Miles
12-21-2005, 12:46 AM
It is a rear project CRT I am not sure what you talking about. Is there such a thing as a regular Tube CRT in a 65" size? I did a google search and found nothing.

Largest tube set I have ever heard of is 40". Might be someting slightly larger but not by much.

XXXshogunXXX
12-21-2005, 03:37 AM
watching hbo in high def is a big difference when comparing a live event in high def. Something on HBO couldve been taped 12 years ago with a shit camera. It's gonna look like shit, regardless if its in high def or not.

I remember when I worked at Timewarner..and some old fckn idiots were complaining about watching Law and Order on TNTHD. Some of those shows were recorded in 1990. I dont know what kind of picture they were expecting......old people are dumb and stupid, and can never be trusted.

Watch a football game in high def..and regular standard video, big huge..motherfing difference. Try Hi-def using an HDMI connection....wow..even better. When an HD game switches to a commercial, to a NON-HD commercial, you can immediately notice the difference. 3X more the bandwidth to get an HD picture, = better picture. Which is why not everything is in HD. it's special.... Get your vision corrected people. People who arent blind like the Chargers. Go Chargers. :bolts:

Herzig
12-21-2005, 05:46 AM
i can only give the opinion of what my eyes see. and they see hdtv being head and sholders over SD. doing picture and picture is not a fair comparison because you are reducing the size of the SD "box". so you eyes see you just assume you are seeing details....

#1 problem with HDTV is millions of people think they are seeing it but they still need an HD Decoder. instead they watch their analog crap saying "HDTV is overrated" (im not assuming anyone here has made that mistake, but millions do)

and HBO is a horrible network to do a comparison. first its film based transfer that wont be are clear and second, on directv they dumb down the bitrate and scan rate so that takes away from the picture.

compare a nice cbs hd football game from you affiliate then we will talk.

For me, this the problem. HD programming and equipment are too expensive for me to justify the cost. Once EVERYTHING is in HD and I don't have to pay extra for it, I will upgrade. Until then, I'll watch my HDTV with component cables for DVD's and get the regular signal for DTV.

Swanman
12-21-2005, 06:15 AM
A 27" standard def vs. a 50" Hi def is no comaprison. Compare 50" standard against 50" High def and the hi-def wins hands down.

Exactly. A standard picture looks very good on tv's that are 27" and under, so you can't compare a hi-def bigscreen to a small screen tv with standard. On my 65" Mitsu, standard definition looks like complete horseshit next to HD. It doesn't help that Directv compresses the data so much on the standard definition channels to make room for the number of channels they offer.

Your test should have been, instead of comparing the 27" to the 50", is switch from HBO HD on 509 to regular HBO on 501 on the 50". You would have definitely seen a difference.

jjjayb
12-21-2005, 06:25 AM
Dude I looked at the difference on the same TV at the same time with the same sports programming from ESPN.:shake:

Heh. You're one of the people in the report. They had a report a few weeks ago that something like 50% of HDTV owners don't even have High Definition hooked up correctly on their Tv's and something like 70% of them don't even realize it. (Not the exact numbers, but it was extrememly high).

Believe me, if you have High Def working you will now. Here's a really easy way to see the difference:

Change your computer's display size to 640x480 and look at your desktop. Then change your display size to 1600x1200. See the difference? The difference between High Def and Standard TV is just as drastic.

Baby Lee
12-21-2005, 06:26 AM
I have HiDef and I tell you that I am not all that impresssed people sound like it is some sort of night and day difference. On my brand new LCD 52 inch Mitsubishi there is a barely discernable difference, yes it is slightly better but if I did not have tons of disposable income there is no way I could justify the difference. In that regard Skip is right. The only way I was able to tell the difference was to put the High Def ESPN in the main picture and the regular version of the same ESPN channel in the PIP. Yes I could tell by doing it but I think you all are comparing apples and oranges somehow to see some sort of huge difference.
Thanks for that, Vlad.
The lack of perception you display here is very reassuring when I reflect back on all the times I've asked myself "is it just me or is Vlad just plain insane."

;) :thumb:

jjjayb
12-21-2005, 06:27 AM
Now I have proof it is not my imagination. Today I did a 4 TV install with three standards and one Hi Def. As it happened, myself and the customer were able to stand at a point where we could see both the Hi Def and one of the standards at the same time. The Hi Def was hooked to a big screen Mitsubishi and the standard to a 27" Sony. I told him about you clowns worshipping the Hi Def and asked for his opinion. He agreed the standard was every bit as good as the Hi Def. But he said it did improve the picture on the Mitsubishi big screen by about 10% over the Dish Notwork he had on it before I arrived.

Does DirecTV know you don't know how to install properly? :shake:

KCTitus
12-21-2005, 06:42 AM
There's no difference between a TRUE HD broadcast and a movie upconverted on an HD channel? That's ridiculous.

Level of detail alone via higher screen resolution and more pixels/lines per inch simply blows away any analog TV. It's ludicrous to argue.

Im guessing if you dont see a difference, then back in the day, you also had a VCR that blinked '12:00' and you couldnt figure out why.

chagrin
12-21-2005, 06:46 AM
This is ridiculous. I constantly turn from hi-def to non-hi de channels to see the difference and to show others the dif all the time - it's night and day.

Skip's in full Vlad - mode. He's just trying to get goats

Signed,

The proud owner of a 60 inch Sony HDTV

C-Mac
12-21-2005, 06:57 AM
It is a rear project CRT I am not sure what you talking about. Is there such a thing as a regular Tube CRT in a 65" size? I did a google search and found nothing.

Yes a Cathode Ray Tube maxes out at 40 inches.
A standard rear projection television uses CRT's, where usually three or more are projected(red, green, blue). I assume you bought a LCD projection TV that uses a single LCD projector. Thus alowing my statement that the LCD picture is inferior to CRT picture.

Shag
12-21-2005, 08:37 AM
Yes a Cathode Ray Tube maxes out at 40 inches.
A standard rear projection television uses CRT's, where usually three or more are projected(red, green, blue). I assume you bought a LCD projection TV that uses a single LCD projector. Thus alowing my statement that the LCD picture is inferior to CRT picture.

heh, I love when people present their own opinion as fact...

For YOU and your preferences, CRT may be the best picture. For me or someone else, we may prefer an LCD, DLP, or plasma picture. It's preference - there's no guarantee that what's "better" to you is "better" to me.

I strongly disagree with your statement that LCD is the worst of all the tv technologies. Personally, I feel it is the best for my lifestyle and what I want to use it for, and it had the best picture to my eyes. CRTs have lots of convergence issues, burn-in problems, and typically have very reflective screen covers/protectors. Plasma is very high cost and has burn-in and longevity problems. DLP sets can display rainbows (which I see, btw, even with higher speed color wheels), and don't have the lumen outputs of other formats. LCDs can lose pixels and display SDE.

They all have their ups and downs. I spent around a month demoing TVs of all types, using my own pre-selected source material. I had salesmen jumping through hoops to ensure that every set I watched used the exact same source equipment, playing my source material. I spent many hours looking at sets side-by-side. For me, the Sony Grand Wega LCD RPTV came out on top decisively. No other picture compared, IMO. My wife came to the same conclusion.

Does that make LCD the best techlology? No, it makes it the best technology for me. Sounds like CRT is for you. I know many DLP fans. For the record, you will find roughly equal numbers of people on both sides of the LCD/DLP debate. CRT and plasma are becoming niche markets (for new big-screen HDTV purchases).

C-Mac
12-21-2005, 08:53 AM
heh, I love when people present their own opinion as fact...

For YOU and your preferences, CRT may be the best picture. For me or someone else, we may prefer an LCD, DLP, or plasma picture. It's preference - there's no guarantee that what's "better" to you is "better" to me.

I strongly disagree with your statement that LCD is the worst of all the tv technologies. Personally, I feel it is the best for my lifestyle and what I want to use it for, and it had the best picture to my eyes. CRTs have lots of convergence issues, burn-in problems, and typically have very reflective screen covers/protectors. Plasma is very high cost and has burn-in and longevity problems. DLP sets can display rainbows (which I see, btw, even with higher speed color wheels), and don't have the lumen outputs of other formats. LCDs can lose pixels and display SDE.

They all have their ups and downs. I spent around a month demoing TVs of all types, using my own pre-selected source material. I had salesmen jumping through hoops to ensure that every set I watched used the exact same source equipment, playing my source material. I spent many hours looking at sets side-by-side. For me, the Sony Grand Wega LCD RPTV came out on top decisively. No other picture compared, IMO. My wife came to the same conclusion.

Does that make LCD the best techlology? No, it makes it the best technology for me. Sounds like CRT is for you. I know many DLP fans. For the record, you will find roughly equal numbers of people on both sides of the LCD/DLP debate. CRT and plasma are becoming niche markets (for new big-screen HDTV purchases).

Yes everything is relevant.
But lets say for example you take a live video feed of a full color spectrum object and feed it into a CRT TV and a LCD TV next to each other, with the full color spectrum object actually in between so as to be seen also. The CRT will reproduce a picture more accurately matching the object then current LCD technology will.
Its just like comparing speakers. If you can hear the live instrument, then hear it reproduced back thru different speakers, you can determine which speakers are most accurate. Otherwise it just all boils down to what your own ears and eyes like, personal preference.

BigMeatballDave
12-21-2005, 09:42 AM
Now I have proof it is not my imagination. Today I did a 4 TV install with three standards and one Hi Def. As it happened, myself and the customer were able to stand at a point where we could see both the Hi Def and one of the standards at the same time. The Hi Def was hooked to a big screen Mitsubishi and the standard to a 27" Sony. I told him about you clowns worshipping the Hi Def and asked for his opinion. He agreed the standard was every bit as good as the Hi Def. But he said it did improve the picture on the Mitsubishi big screen by about 10% over the Dish Notwork he had on it before I arrived.Sorry, Skip. But that is complete BS.
The difference is HUGE! Something tells me you didn't have the HDTV on a HD program/channel...

BigMeatballDave
12-21-2005, 09:47 AM
DirecTV.com lists 509 as "HBO HDTV"

I don't really think there is a huge difference on the movie channels.

Try Discovery HD, Skip.I had HD through Time Warner a couple of years ago. Most of HBOs programming wasn't true HD. Some of it was plain SD...

morphius
12-21-2005, 09:48 AM
Sorry, Skip. But that is complete BS.
The difference is HUGE! Something tells me you didn't have the HDTV on a HD program/channel...
See, HD Judge Judy doesn't look any better then regular directtv svideo Judge Judy.

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 09:56 AM
I hear so many people complain about HDTV without understanding how it can be influenced by the input/source, the conneciton, and the output.

My dad bought a 42" plasma and was disappointed. I spent 45 minutes changing out cables and programming his TV and receiver and now he calls me in the middle of football games and says "This is awesome!"

BigMeatballDave
12-21-2005, 09:57 AM
I have HiDef and I tell you that I am not all that impresssed people sound like it is some sort of night and day difference. On my brand new LCD 52 inch Mitsubishi there is a barely discernable difference, yes it is slightly better but if I did not have tons of disposable income there is no way I could justify the difference. In that regard Skip is right. The only way I was able to tell the difference was to put the High Def ESPN in the main picture and the regular version of the same ESPN channel in the PIP. Yes I could tell by doing it but I think you all are comparing apples and oranges somehow to see some sort of huge difference.WOW. You guys are just old then. From now on, Skip and Vlad's opinion on HD is null...

BigMeatballDave
12-21-2005, 09:59 AM
FWIW LCD is the worst picture of the CRT, DLP, LCD, Plasma groupYeah, thats not true...

WilliamTheIrish
12-21-2005, 09:59 AM
I hear so many people complain about HDTV without understanding how it can be influenced by the input/source, the conneciton, and the output.

My dad bought a 42" plasma and was disappointed. I spent 45 minutes changing out cables and programming his TV and receiver and now he calls me in the middle of football games and says "This is awesome!"

Hah!

Dad's are great.

KCTitus
12-21-2005, 10:02 AM
My dad bought a 42" plasma and was disappointed. I spent 45 minutes changing out cables and programming his TV and receiver and now he calls me in the middle of football games and says "This is awesome!"

You installed a DVI cable from the HD reciever to the set, I bet.

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 10:03 AM
You installed a DVI cable from the HD reciever to the set, I bet.

Yep. And RGB component for his DVD player.

The dude that installed his TV and DirecTV used RCA composite cables for everything.

KCTitus
12-21-2005, 10:07 AM
Yep. And RGB component for his DVD player.

The dude that installed his TV and DirecTV used RCA composite cables for everything.

Wow...RCA cables...

HemiEd
12-21-2005, 10:09 AM
You installed a DVI cable from the HD reciever to the set, I bet.

Yep. And RGB component for his DVD player.

The dude that installed his TV and DirecTV used RCA composite cables for everything.


Mine uses an HDMI cable.

BigMeatballDave
12-21-2005, 10:10 AM
My dad bought a 42" plasma and was disappointed. I spent 45 minutes changing out cables and programming his TV and receiver and now he calls me in the middle of football games and says "This is awesome!"
ROFL

BigMeatballDave
12-21-2005, 10:12 AM
Yep. And RGB component for his DVD player.

The dude that installed his TV and DirecTV used RCA composite cables for everything.What a tool...
:shake:

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 10:15 AM
Wow...RCA cables...

Probably the same kind Skip is using. :D

KCTitus
12-21-2005, 10:17 AM
Probably the same kind Skip is using. :D

ROFL

Barret
12-21-2005, 11:15 AM
Well thought i would throw my .10 cents in here,

Just got a Toshiba 51in projection a few weeks ago and these are the things I have noticed....

1: Cabling is very important. I use the HD composite wiring from my DVR to the TV. Very good imaging where as the S-video from my dvd to the tv is a small downgrade. Was thinking of going with the HDMI wiring for the dvd since I went into Sears and they had a $145 Sony hdmi dvd player and a cheapy $40 dvd player playing the exact same thing split screen on a plasma screen and you can see the crispness of the hdmi. I feel Cabling is very important.

2: This might be a little bit older information but there isnt a "standard" put out for HDTV as of yet. Standard meaning that some tv stations will send out an hd signal not in the 1024 format. From what I remember Discovery sends it out in the 1024 where as ABC and ESPN are in the 900 - 800 range where as CBS or some other channel is sending out its broadcast in a letterbox size. All I am saying is you have to be carefull in what you are looking at. I turn to the Discovery channel or one of those INHD channels and they are showing some show called "Equator" and I am stunned at some of the visuals. But even watching like an HBO HD movie and you will notice it is better but might not be that much better due to how it was filmed.

3: the Type of TV is important, With the projection I can see why some people dont like it since you do need to be in front of the tv at the correct angle. For Movies, I would recommend the projection but for sporting events where you have a ton of people over and not everyone can be at the correct angle to view the tv then going with the plasma or LCD is a better option

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 11:34 AM
Well thought i would throw my .10 cents in here,

Just got a Toshiba 51in projection a few weeks ago and these are the things I have noticed....

1: Cabling is very important. I use the HD composite wiring from my DVR to the TV. Very good imaging where as the S-video from my dvd to the tv is a small downgrade. Was thinking of going with the HDMI wiring for the dvd since I went into Sears and they had a $145 Sony hdmi dvd player and a cheapy $40 dvd player playing the exact same thing split screen on a plasma screen and you can see the crispness of the hdmi. I feel Cabling is very important.

2: This might be a little bit older information but there isnt a "standard" put out for HDTV as of yet. Standard meaning that some tv stations will send out an hd signal not in the 1024 format. From what I remember Discovery sends it out in the 1024 where as ABC and ESPN are in the 900 - 800 range where as CBS or some other channel is sending out its broadcast in a letterbox size. All I am saying is you have to be carefull in what you are looking at. I turn to the Discovery channel or one of those INHD channels and they are showing some show called "Equator" and I am stunned at some of the visuals. But even watching like an HBO HD movie and you will notice it is better but might not be that much better due to how it was filmed.

3: the Type of TV is important, With the projection I can see why some people dont like it since you do need to be in front of the tv at the correct angle. For Movies, I would recommend the projection but for sporting events where you have a ton of people over and not everyone can be at the correct angle to view the tv then going with the plasma or LCD is a better option

Alot of HD programming is in 1080i. Fox broadcasts in 720p, which is a superior format.

Dartgod
12-21-2005, 12:14 PM
How big of improvement can I expect upgrading from composite cabling to HDMI from my DVR/HDTV cable box to my TV? It's gets a pretty awesome picture now.

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 12:16 PM
How big of improvement can I expect upgrading from composite cabling to HDMI from my DVR/HDTV cable box to my TV? It's gets a pretty awesome picture now.

Composite? Or Component (RGB)?

Dartgod
12-21-2005, 12:22 PM
Composite? Or Component (RGB)?
Sorry, I meant component.

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 12:23 PM
Sorry, I meant component.

I'm not sure you're gonna notice a huge difference between HDMI and component. The big benefit of HDMI in that case is that it can also carry audio signals.

Dartgod
12-21-2005, 12:27 PM
I'm not sure you're gonna notice a huge difference between HDMI and component. The big benefit of HDMI in that case is that it can also carry audio signals.
I'm already using the optical audio input from the DVR to the Surround sound.

htismaqe
12-21-2005, 12:33 PM
I'm already using the optical audio input from the DVR to the Surround sound.

It's probably not worth your time then.

jspchief
12-21-2005, 12:33 PM
8-tracks sound just as good as CDs.

Dartgod
12-21-2005, 12:41 PM
It's probably not worth your time then.
It wasn't my time I was concerned about. :D

$$$$$$$

KC Kings
12-21-2005, 12:47 PM
Depending on what channel he was watching, I can agree with Skip. If you watch regular low def tv channels, you can barely tell the difference. If you compare a standard 4:3 tv compared to a HD 16:9 screen watching regular low def tv, most of the time the standard picture is better.

However, once you quit watching the standard low-def programming the difference in quality is undeniably better.

KC Kings
12-21-2005, 12:53 PM
I'm already using the optical audio input from the DVR to the Surround sound.

I upgraded from optical audio to 6-channel component audio, and was disappointed with the upgrade. If you are listening to a HD Audio DVD, the ones that are made for awesome sound it sounds great, but for you every day run of the mill audio it sounds a lot better if you just let your player/receiver decode the sound for you.

I ended up running both 6-channel audio and optical audio out of my DVD player, and let the HK use the Logic7 to decode the sound.

Baby Lee
12-21-2005, 01:57 PM
I upgraded from optical audio to 6-channel component audio, and was disappointed with the upgrade. If you are listening to a HD Audio DVD, the ones that are made for awesome sound it sounds great, but for you every day run of the mill audio it sounds a lot better if you just let your player/receiver decode the sound for you.

I ended up running both 6-channel audio and optical audio out of my DVD player, and let the HK use the Logic7 to decode the sound.
I wouldn't make a blanket statment. 2 things might play into that.
If your receiver's DA converters are widely superior to your player's, you'll probably find that pretty regularly.
Also, the source material may be poorly mastered for 5.1. There are number of SACDs and DVD-As that have been panned for their re-mixing.

HemiEd
12-21-2005, 03:03 PM
8-tracks sound just as good as CDs.

8 Tracks sound pretty good but I grow tired of the clicking to the next track.

dtebbe
12-21-2005, 04:50 PM
I didn't want to believe it either....

then we went shopping for a new TV for our living room. We weren't even in the market for a HDTV or a widescreen. But after looking at the pictures and seeing the difference in the store we were sold enough to take the TV home and see what it could do for us there.

Now, I don't think I can watch 'regular' TV again. Certainly not when watching sports, especially football.

Ok, you KNOW it's bad when ... (fill in the blank)

ROFL

DT

C-Mac
12-21-2005, 09:28 PM
Yeah, thats not true...

Maybe your right, but everything I've read and everything I've seen says that LCD is fourth in line to CRT, DLP and Plasma.

Logical
12-21-2005, 09:47 PM
Yes a Cathode Ray Tube maxes out at 40 inches.
A standard rear projection television uses CRT's, where usually three or more are projected(red, green, blue). I assume you bought a LCD projection TV that uses a single LCD projector. Thus alowing my statement that the LCD picture is inferior to CRT picture.I own both, one 65 inch Rear Projection CRT Mitsubishi Hi Def compatible in the family room and a Mitsubishi 52 in LCD Hi Def for my bedroom, we also own an older technology 45 inch big screen Mitsubishi that my son uses for his gaming which still works pretty damn amazing given that it is over 15 years old.

I will never stray from Mitsu in big screen products, Sony is as good but they make you pay a premium charge for their name.

BigMeatballDave
12-22-2005, 01:12 AM
8-tracks sound just as good as CDs.
ROFL

htismaqe
12-22-2005, 07:32 AM
I own both, one 65 inch Rear Projection CRT Mitsubishi Hi Def compatible in the family room and a Mitsubishi 52 in LCD Hi Def for my bedroom, we also own an older technology 45 inch big screen Mitsubishi that my son uses for his gaming which still works pretty damn amazing given that it is over 15 years old.

I will never stray from Mitsu in big screen products, Sony is as good but they make you pay a premium charge for their name.

For me, Mits is the best big screen out there. :thumb:

Cave Johnson
12-22-2005, 09:31 AM
My dad bought a 42" plasma and was disappointed. I spent 45 minutes changing out cables and programming his TV and receiver and now he calls me in the middle of football games and says "This is awesome!"

I wish your dad and my dad were on the same page. His 10 year old 27" Mitsu console went out over the summer and he wanted to spend $400 on a TV. $400 is something like .16% of his gross annual income. So instead of going with something decent, like a 42" plasma, he sunk $1400 into a 32" Sony HD CRT and an ugly as sin cabinet.

The thing I can't understand is that he watches a decent amount of TV, including Rams and Chiefs games.

BigMeatballDave
12-22-2005, 10:25 AM
he sunk $1400 into a 32" Sony HD CRT and an ugly as sin cabinet.
Jesus H. Christ! Sanyo has a 32" HD CRT for under $600. Sony makes great TVs, but their shit is just way over priced...

BigRedChief
12-22-2005, 12:26 PM
Jesus H. Christ! Sanyo has a 32" HD CRT for under $600. Sony makes great TVs, but their shit is just way over priced...

I went with the JVC over the sony. I got a 52 in JVC with the same features as a Sony for $250.00 less and it has a superior picture.

Cave Johnson
12-22-2005, 12:36 PM
$800 Sony, $600 cabinet. He negotiated free sales tax (during the back to school exemption) with the CC employee, so I have to give him props for that at least.

John Matrix
12-23-2005, 11:09 PM
I got a 46 in Toshiba rear projection this summer at BB for 999 bucks. It was a phenomenal deal...the best picture of any projection unit I've seen...it even compares to many DLPs.

Skip, in regards to your comments about STV vs HDTV, use the proper equipment first. You can't jam a bunch of marbles into a Glock and complain about why it doesn't shoot as well as a slingshot for the price. Buy some bullets (an HDTV tuner and HDMI or DVI cables) and then blow people away w/ the picture (pun intended).

I hope you enjoy your n00b feeling on this one, ass.

Buck
11-05-2011, 12:23 AM
Guys, I was wondering if Hi Def has caught up to standard def yet?

Lzen
11-05-2011, 04:36 PM
Lol

pr_capone
11-05-2011, 05:43 PM
LMFAO

I realize this was from 6 years ago but DAMN. This coming from a "professional".

/waits for Skip to neg rep him ala redrum

Lzen
11-05-2011, 07:35 PM
8-tracks sound just as good as CDs.

ROFL

Fruit Ninja
11-05-2011, 07:57 PM
i think everyone's done made the HDTV switch. haha

Lzen
11-05-2011, 08:02 PM
i think everyone's done made the HDTV switch. haha

Not everybody. But there are a ton more people watching HDTV nowadays as compared to when this thread was started 6 years ago. Back then, there were a lot of variables. There are still some, but its not nearly as bad. Many more HD channels are offered now and most are better quality than back then. Still, I find it hilarious that a professional DTV installer seriously didn't understand HD. :shake:

pr_capone
11-05-2011, 08:16 PM
Not everybody. But there are a ton more people watching HDTV nowadays as compared to when this thread was started 6 years ago. Back then, there were a lot of variables. There are still some, but its not nearly as bad. Many more HD channels are offered now and most are better quality than back then. Still, I find it hilarious that a professional DTV installer seriously didn't understand HD. :shake:

Even back then a 720p 60hz LCD tv was heads and tails better than any SDTV. Skip is just fucking stupid.

Frazod
11-06-2011, 09:13 AM
Even back then a 720p 60hz LCD tv was heads and tails better than any SDTV. Skip is just fucking stupid.

He certainly wasn't the only one - seemed like everybody I talked to at DirecTV back then was equally clueless. Enduring the growing pains as their fucktard employees slowly learned how to do their jobs was a mammoth pain in the ass.

I seriously learned more about hooking up my HDTV from dtebbe on this BB than all the customer service reps, combined.

The only useful thing I ever learned from Skip was spraying the dish with cooking spray to help keep the snow from sticking to it.

Pasta Giant Meatball
11-06-2011, 09:45 AM
I got a 46 in Toshiba rear projection this summer at BB for 999 bucks. It was a phenomenal deal...the best picture of any projection unit I've seen...it even compares to many DLPs.

Skip, in regards to your comments about STV vs HDTV, use the proper equipment first. You can't jam a bunch of marbles into a Glock and complain about why it doesn't shoot as well as a slingshot for the price. Buy some bullets (an HDTV tuner and HDMI or DVI cables) and then blow people away w/ the picture (pun intended).

I hope you enjoy your n00b feeling on this one, ass.

Hamas with some sound input.

mnchiefsguy
11-06-2011, 08:14 PM
i think everyone's done made the HDTV switch. haha

We have not yet. Finances have not made it possible. But there is light at the end of the tunnel, and either at XMas this year, or tax time next year, we will be sporting some new equipment.

HD is awesome, and the best value for entertainment out there, especially for sports I think.

notorious
11-06-2011, 08:18 PM
The only useful thing I ever learned from Skip was spraying the dish with cooking spray to help keep the snow from sticking to it.

That's a good idea!