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View Full Version : What one area of our team kept us out of the playoffs?


Tuckdaddy
12-27-2005, 05:23 PM
Besides dropped passes, penalties, injuries and the rest of the usual crapola.

IMHO the one thing would be pass rush. If we had a pass rush we would have made it. A new HC or DV, if he stays, must fix this problem first.

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2005, 05:26 PM
Defense, without a doubt!

And, anyone who mentions LJs blocking should recieve a 24 hr. ban...

Rain Man
12-27-2005, 05:26 PM
Lack of a strong pass rush.


Second to that would be the related sin of telegraphing our blitzes.

siberian khatru
12-27-2005, 05:27 PM
I still have a sneaking suspicion it was our cheerleaders.

SNR
12-27-2005, 05:31 PM
Well, technically, we only needed one more win to have a decent shot at the playoffs going into next week's game.

Pick any terrible game. Philly and Buffalo had terrible stalls on offense due to poor pass protection/bad play calling. Dallas and New York Giants all around shitty defense. Depends on which game you want to blame for our non-playoff appearance.

For the sake of following the herd, I'll say lack of pass rush

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2005, 05:31 PM
I still have a sneaking suspicion it was our cheerleaders.They are quite scary...

chefsos
12-27-2005, 05:37 PM
I think this is gonna be a landslide. Pass rush, absolutely.

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2005, 05:41 PM
Pick any terrible game. Philly and Buffalo had terrible stalls on offense due to poor pass protection/bad play calling. Philly was all on the D. We had a 24-6 lead.
Now, the Buffalo game was on Trent. Too many turnovers. D played pretty damn good.

htismaqe
12-27-2005, 05:45 PM
COACHING.

Beyond all of the tangible things that people have mentioned like blocking or pass rush, this team is plagued by ATTITUDE problems.

They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.

All of those things point to a team that is poorly motivated and feels like they're gonna get paid whether they win or lose.

COACHING is what is wrong with this team.

Rain Man
12-27-2005, 05:49 PM
I do agree that one thing that hurt us was giving up on plays easily on defense. Wesley standing around while Tiki Barber was breaking tackles springs to mind, and I recall a couple of instances where Surtain was jogging behind a guy deep when it looked like he could have closed on him before the catch. I want a safety who's running up so he can deliver one more free shot as the ball carrier is going down.

I honestly think that one of the reasons that our offensive line is so highly rated is that they'll run toward the ball after the initial phase of the play. If the ball carrier gets by the first wave, all of a sudden he's got more linemen in the vicinity. They don't just make one block and then stand there.

stevieray
12-27-2005, 05:51 PM
They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.




Yet, they have the ability to put the last game behind them, and not dwell on negatives everyday.

I think this is your emotions speaking.

SNR
12-27-2005, 05:51 PM
Philly was all on the D. We had a 24-6 lead.
Now, the Buffalo game was on Trent. Too many turnovers. D played pretty damn good.The D was expected to give up points since Philly would be passing every down to try and come back. The offense couldn't score shit in the 2nd half AT HOME for crying out loud. Even when Philly finally took the lead, we shat ourselves silly.

That loss falls directly on the shoulders of the offense.

Taco John
12-27-2005, 05:52 PM
...lack of real Chiefs fans really hurt you guys this year...

Taco John
12-27-2005, 05:53 PM
Also... Not being HARDCORE enough... face it. That cost you big time.

ENDelt260
12-27-2005, 05:53 PM
The D was expected to give up points since Philly would be passing every down to try and come back. The offense couldn't score shit in the 2nd half AT HOME for crying out loud. Even when Philly finally took the lead, we shat ourselves silly.

That loss falls directly on the shoulders of the offense.
This post makes me want to stab Gregs with one g in the face, too.

Rain Man
12-27-2005, 05:56 PM
...lack of real Chiefs fans really hurt you guys this year...


I should've gone to a game.

I should've :banghead:

I should've :banghead:

I should've :banghead:

FringeNC
12-27-2005, 06:01 PM
COACHING.

Beyond all of the tangible things that people have mentioned like blocking or pass rush, this team is plagued by ATTITUDE problems.

They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.

All of those things point to a team that is poorly motivated and feels like they're gonna get paid whether they win or lose.

COACHING is what is wrong with this team.

I doubt you'd find too many DCs around the league who say our offense is poorly coached. Borders on the absurd.

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2005, 06:28 PM
The D was expected to give up points since Philly would be passing every down to try and come back. The offense couldn't score shit in the 2nd half AT HOME for crying out loud. Even when Philly finally took the lead, we shat ourselves silly.

That loss falls directly on the shoulders of the offense.ROFL Sorry, if you score 30+ points at home, you should win. Period. Blaming the Offense is assinine...

stevieray
12-27-2005, 06:30 PM
I should've gone to a game.

I should've :banghead:

I should've :banghead:

I should've :banghead:

You say that every year.

|Zach|
12-27-2005, 06:31 PM
Just consistancy...if anything I would say coaching...

Brock
12-27-2005, 06:36 PM
Poor defense in general.

|Zach|
12-27-2005, 06:37 PM
Poor defense in general.
I don't know. There is no doubt the defense needs to get better...but in most games this defense put us in position to win games.

It seems like when the defense was off the offense was off as well.

I would just point to overall consistancy. Problems on the road.

Bob Dole
12-27-2005, 06:41 PM
They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.

Yeah. What he said.

Brock
12-27-2005, 06:43 PM
I don't know. There is no doubt the defense needs to get better...but in most games this defense put us in position to win games.

It seems like when the defense was off the offense was off as well.

I would just point to overall consistancy. Problems on the road.

Yes, specifically road games. A couple of stops in Dallas or NY, and we're not wondering why the Chiefs aren't in the playoffs.

|Zach|
12-27-2005, 06:46 PM
Yes, specifically road games. A couple of stops in Dallas or NY, and we're not wondering why the Chiefs aren't in the playoffs.
Sometimes it just seemed like bad luck plain and simple...

The bad snap in Dallas?
Dropped INT by Surtain?
Bad snap?

I say this most of all because of strange things in the offense. How many times did this team make really impressive plays to get down the field only to sputter and settle for a FG...maybe...

Going 60 yards in 3 plays and then using all that momentum to get a 3 and out and settle.

SNR
12-27-2005, 06:48 PM
ROFL Sorry, if you score 30+ points at home, you should win. Period. Blaming the Offense is assinine...*cough*

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=125690

Alphaman
12-27-2005, 07:31 PM
I haven't read the responses yet. I wanted to respond directly to this question before I did.

2 reasons:

1) I think it was turnovers that let teams back into games we were set to put away. Philly and Dallas games were lost by turnovers when had or about to have a team put away.

2) Inefficiency in the red zone. We had chances to put touchdowns on the board and win games against Buffalo and in San Diego. We failed inside the red zone and it hurt us.

Win anyone of those 4 games and we are in the playoffs. Win 2 of them and we have a shot at the division and the number 2 seed. Win 3 and we definitely win the division and the number 2 seed.

FAX
12-27-2005, 07:35 PM
In a word. P*ssy.

Far too many of the Chiefs players are either married or have women begging for their attentions.

If the Chiefs players were starved for P*ssy and were told that they could only get P*ssy if and when they were victorious on Sunday, we would be in the playoffs.

It is abundantly clear that Dick Vermeil does not believe in the power of P*ssy.

FAX

FringeNC
12-27-2005, 07:50 PM
I can't believe people are blaming an offensive play here, a play there...half the teams in the league could do that...

Here's another question....Why didn't San Diego make the playoffs? Here the play here, play there story makes some sense. San Diego players must lack heart too, because they had a good O and didn't make the playoffs. Top-notch red zone performance, and still didn't make it.

All you guys are too close to the situation. I don't live in KC anymore, and hence I hear the die-hard football non-Chiefs-fanatics opinion of why the Chiefs don't win, and it's unamimous -- it's the D.

What I get tired of is holding the O up to a standard that no team in the NFL is required to meet -- look at games this season where Indy's O laid an egg, and they have a lot more offensive talent than we do.

It's ironic that this offensive coaching staff is held to the standard they are (as if they are offensive gods), yet everyone wants them gone. Or the other story I guess is that it is all the O-line and DV and AS only screw things up. Well, we had some damn fine O-lines here in the 90s, and never put up offensive numbers close to this...

|Zach|
12-27-2005, 07:59 PM
There were alot of times....alot...

When the Chiefs offense had a chance to do something they didn't.

Weather it was get into the redzone and score or even just sustain a drive to bleed time from the clock. They are so bad at that.

The defense needs to get better...but most the time they put us in positions to win the game.

htismaqe
12-27-2005, 08:15 PM
I doubt you'd find too many DCs around the league who say our offense is poorly coached. Borders on the absurd.

The WHOLE TEAM is poorly coached.

The offense makes up for it with superior execution. But even the offense operates many times in a fashion that says they don't feel urgency. That's why they call timeouts at the worst possible times and are poor at clock management in general.

It's also the reason why you see Trent Green smiling and laughing on the sidelines after his 3rd INT of the game. This team has the ultimate "live to fight another day" mentality.

htismaqe
12-27-2005, 08:20 PM
I can't believe people are blaming an offensive play here, a play there...half the teams in the league could do that...

Here's another question....Why didn't San Diego make the playoffs? Here the play here, play there story makes some sense. San Diego players must lack heart too, because they had a good O and didn't make the playoffs. Top-notch red zone performance, and still didn't make it.

All you guys are too close to the situation. I don't live in KC anymore, and hence I hear the die-hard football non-Chiefs-fanatics opinion of why the Chiefs don't win, and it's unamimous -- it's the D.

What I get tired of is holding the O up to a standard that no team in the NFL is required to meet -- look at games this season where Indy's O laid an egg, and they have a lot more offensive talent than we do.

It's ironic that this offensive coaching staff is held to the standard they are (as if they are offensive gods), yet everyone wants them gone. Or the other story I guess is that it is all the O-line and DV and AS only screw things up. Well, we had some damn fine O-lines here in the 90s, and never put up offensive numbers close to this...

I don't live in KC either. My two best friends are Bronco fans. I talk to non-Chief fans every day.

Every single one of them says the problem is that Vermeil isn't a tough enough coach.

Seriously, did Gunther run over your dog or something?

This idea that Gunther is solely responsible and Vermeil is blameless is absolutely assinine.

Bob Dole
12-27-2005, 08:28 PM
The only consistent facet of this team is the inability to step up when it really matters.

Attribute that to whatever you will, but that's the long and the short of it...

Halfcan
12-27-2005, 08:28 PM
Wins.

tk13
12-27-2005, 08:29 PM
It's clearly Larry Johnson's fault. He played a huge role in all of our losses:

Denver: Fumbled deep in our own end, allowed Denver to score and put game away.

Philly: Fumbled again to begin the momentum shift for the Eagles.

San Diego: Was a coward that could've been in the game on the play where Priest was hurt, saving Priest's season and our playoff chances.

Buffalo: Should've picked up more first downs to keep Losman off the field, preventing him from throwing those two touchdown passes.

Dallas: Too busy clubbin' to have the effort to block Scott Fujita, sending our season into a tailspin.

Giants: Didn't even try to wrap up Tiki Barber. Made his teammates try to do it while he stood on the sidelines. Way to help your team Larry.

htismaqe
12-27-2005, 08:43 PM
It's clearly Larry Johnson's fault. He played a huge role in all of our losses:

Denver: Fumbled deep in our own end, allowed Denver to score and put game away.

Philly: Fumbled again to begin the momentum shift for the Eagles.

San Diego: Was a coward that could've been in the game on the play where Priest was hurt, saving Priest's season and our playoff chances.

Buffalo: Should've picked up more first downs to keep Losman off the field, preventing him from throwing those two touchdown passes.

Dallas: Too busy clubbin' to have the effort to block Scott Fujita, sending our season into a tailspin.

Giants: Didn't even try to wrap up Tiki Barber. Made his teammates try to do it while he stood on the sidelines. Way to help your team Larry.

ROFL

That's awesome.

FringeNC
12-27-2005, 09:13 PM
I don't live in KC either. My two best friends are Bronco fans. I talk to non-Chief fans every day.

Every single one of them says the problem is that Vermeil isn't a tough enough coach.



I would say characteristics of a coach who isn't tough would be a lot of fumbles, and penalties, and the like...I don't see it.

Also, why would the lack of discipline only show itself on the D side of the ball? A guy I think is a soft coach is Norv Turner, and you see mental mistakes all over the field on both sides of the ball.

I see an offense that appears to be quite disciplined. I see a D that doesn't seem to ever be able to fool the offense. My bashing of Gunther is simple: his combined two-year rankings are the worst in the league. He's not getting it done. I find that to be the simplest explanation of why the Chiefs will be sitting at home.

Mojo Rising
12-27-2005, 09:18 PM
Wins.
... on the road vs. quality teams. Even if we have/do made the playoffs we would of had to beat a good team on the road. We haven't been able to do it.

morphius
12-27-2005, 09:34 PM
The only consistent facet of this team is the inability to step up when it really matters.

Attribute that to whatever you will, but that's the long and the short of it...
Yup, seems like every time there is a must win game, the coaching staff plays it off and our guys look unmotivated and we lose. But boy, when the games no longer matter, we are the team you don't want to face.

StcChief
12-27-2005, 09:43 PM
D still ranked at bottom of league. Showed signs of life at times and stopped people. Not consistently.

Coaching and Personnel use are to blame.

Bad Offense and Defense play calling in certain situations turned several games.

dirk digler
12-27-2005, 09:45 PM
There were alot of times....alot...

When the Chiefs offense had a chance to do something they didn't.

Weather it was get into the redzone and score or even just sustain a drive to bleed time from the clock. They are so bad at that.

The defense needs to get better...but most the time they put us in positions to win the game.

I agree with this along with Parker's assessment of the coaching.

This goes back to my previous posts today about the lack of true #1 WR on this team really has hurt us. We have had way to many 3 and outs on the O side of the ball.

Simplex3
12-27-2005, 09:56 PM
The one constant in all of our bad endings is Carl Peterson. Enough said.

mississippichiefan
12-27-2005, 10:19 PM
Pass coverage was horrible , but a strong pass rush makes pass coverage look a lot better so I will have to say pass rush . Go Chiefs !!

jspchief
12-27-2005, 10:37 PM
Lack of killer instinct.

I don't think the team has the right attitude to be a great team. Confidence, fire, hubris... whatever it is that makes teams like the Pats look like they are in total control of a game. It's a rare occasion that this Chiefs team looks like they are in complete control.

The Chiefs always seem like they are one bad play from crumbling. And often one bad play is all it takes. They can't recover.

It all boils down to the attitude that Vermeil fosters.

jspchief
12-27-2005, 10:39 PM
I also think this team has learned to lean too heavily on the crutch of home field advantage. Vermeil has been spouting about how hard it is to win on the road for 5 years now, and the team believes it 100%.

KCChiefsMan
12-27-2005, 10:56 PM
it was all Dan Marino's fault, laces out laces out laces out!!!!

cdcox
12-27-2005, 10:57 PM
All you guys are too close to the situation. I don't live in KC anymore, and hence I hear the die-hard football non-Chiefs-fanatics opinion of why the Chiefs don't win, and it's unamimous -- it's the D.



And that is the knee jerk criticism of any NFL fan who really doesn't know very much about the Chiefs. That slam was tatooed onto the Chiefs by Tags after we were ousted by Colts. It ain't comming off until we have a top 5 D. I don't consider casual observers repeating what they "know" to be a credible sourse of criticism.

That said, clearly the D is the weak link in comparison to the offense. No sane person would argue that. Goonther should have never been rehired. He should be fired.

But your devotion to AS and DV keeps you from honestly evaluating their shortcomings. AS clearly has a tendency to get too cute, and a pig-headedness that keeps him from sticking with what's working. Anyone can see it. I'd keep him on as OC because I agree that despite his short comings he is better than 90% of the OC in the league. But not head coach.

Despite the best offense in the NFL for the last 4 years DV's Chiefs have had the stench of a loser. They play very poorly on the road. Over the last two years they have lost between 6 and 8 games to clearly inferior teams. Talent evaluation on the defensive side of the ball has been atrocious. Clock management! Special projects and secret weapons. They consistently look opportunity in the eye and say, ehh, maybe next time. The defense has been a "known issue" since the end of the 2001 season, and as you rightly point out, still needs attention. DVs regime has been a failure because of these issues.

Here is the litmus test: Given that team X has the best offense in the NFL for the last 4 seasons, would you consider a single playoff appearance without any wins to be an acceptable performance for a head coach?

BigMeatballDave
12-27-2005, 11:49 PM
The one constant in all of our bad endings is Carl Peterson. Enough said.Correct. And the blame rests at Lamars feet for not replacing him...

greg63
12-28-2005, 12:04 AM
…Defense; definitely defense.

KcKing
12-28-2005, 12:04 AM
COACHING.

Beyond all of the tangible things that people have mentioned like blocking or pass rush, this team is plagued by ATTITUDE problems.

They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.

All of those things point to a team that is poorly motivated and feels like they're gonna get paid whether they win or lose.

COACHING is what is wrong with this team.

^^^^

kcfanXIII
12-28-2005, 12:12 AM
Besides dropped passes, penalties, injuries and the rest of the usual crapola.

IMHO the one thing would be pass rush. If we had a pass rush we would have made it. A new HC or DV, if he stays, must fix this problem first.
forgive me if this has been said, just when you asked the question i thought of this instantly. not enough press coverage. the corners were lining up 5-10 yards deep every play, and i saw them line up as much as 12 yards deep at one point. with that much of a cushion, the pass rush hardly had time to develop. now don't get me wrong, there is a pass rush issue, which is where i think the idea to play with a cushion came from. but all a team would have to do is look at video to see this, and than exploit it.

Logical
12-28-2005, 12:12 AM
COACHING.

Beyond all of the tangible things that people have mentioned like blocking or pass rush, this team is plagued by ATTITUDE problems.

They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.

All of those things point to a team that is poorly motivated and feels like they're gonna get paid whether they win or lose.

COACHING is what is wrong with this team.I also go with coaching, offensive, defensive and Head Coaching. In all the key games we lost each one of them bore responsibility at some point in the season. Poorly prepared, horrible at adjustment. Terribly under motivated over and over again.

htismaqe
12-28-2005, 05:33 AM
I would say characteristics of a coach who isn't tough would be a lot of fumbles, and penalties, and the like...I don't see it.

Also, why would the lack of discipline only show itself on the D side of the ball? A guy I think is a soft coach is Norv Turner, and you see mental mistakes all over the field on both sides of the ball.

I see an offense that appears to be quite disciplined. I see a D that doesn't seem to ever be able to fool the offense. My bashing of Gunther is simple: his combined two-year rankings are the worst in the league. He's not getting it done. I find that to be the simplest explanation of why the Chiefs will be sitting at home.

You're kidding, right?

The offense makes ALL KINDS of undisciplined mistakes. Clock management and dropped passes are the two most glaring.

The offense gets away with it because they look so good on paper.

But in crunch time, when it REALLY counts, how often do they get it done?

Exactly.

Count Zarth
12-28-2005, 05:37 AM
We'd be in the playoffs if we had a pass rush outside of Jared Allen.

No pass rush killed us against San Diego, Dallas, and Philadelphia.

Of course the maddening thing about this team is that shitty offense killed us against Denver, Buffalo and New York.

If our awesome offense had showed up in ONE of those games we'd be talking about the playoffs right now. And you can probably say that about SD, too, because the D played well enough to win after halftime.

:banghead:

Inspector
12-28-2005, 06:02 AM
A variety of things.

Poor pass rush.

Penalties.

Dropped balls.

Crappy tackling.

Some things to a greater degree than others. Collectively, they probably point to some coaching issues. Coaching is the root of a lot of their problems - seems to me anyway.

Extra Point
12-28-2005, 07:29 AM
Lack of DE containment on first downs, earlier this season.

Fish
12-28-2005, 08:44 AM
I also think this team has learned to lean too heavily on the crutch of home field advantage. Vermeil has been spouting about how hard it is to win on the road for 5 years now, and the team believes it 100%.

I totally agree with this. Vermiel is the King of insignificant stats...... and I think it's coming back to bite him in the ass....

Fish
12-28-2005, 08:48 AM
And...... if Kris Wilson had just a few more snaps.................

Calcountry
12-28-2005, 10:14 AM
Long snapping, definitely long snapping.

MOhillbilly
12-28-2005, 10:18 AM
3 of the front 4 and 1 of the 3 LBs.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2005, 10:19 AM
COACHING.

Beyond all of the tangible things that people have mentioned like blocking or pass rush, this team is plagued by ATTITUDE problems.

They lack heart, they lack determination, they lack technique, they get lazy, they're inconsistent.

All of those things point to a team that is poorly motivated and feels like they're gonna get paid whether they win or lose.

COACHING is what is wrong with this team.

Ding,Ding,Ding

Baby Lee
12-28-2005, 10:28 AM
You're kidding, right?

The offense makes ALL KINDS of undisciplined mistakes. Clock management and dropped passes are the two most glaring.

The offense gets away with it because they look so good on paper.

But in crunch time, when it REALLY counts, how often do they get it done?

Exactly.
Sounds like someone is treading ominously close to the point I repeatedly make with my 'Trent has never won an important game' observation.

Mr. Laz
12-28-2005, 11:45 AM
Sounds like someone is treading ominously close to the point I repeatedly make with my 'Trent has never won an important game' observation.
i put the time management crap on the coaching, not Trent

Baby Lee
12-28-2005, 11:48 AM
i put the time management crap on the coaching, not Trent
I was referring to the general trend of looking good on paper, but not getting it done in the crunch.
Remember the string of xx games last year where we were <7 down with the ball, and the clock ran out after another Green sack.
Not saying it's all him. Just that there is an institutional propensity to look great when the pressure is off, and puking on our shoes when it comes down to brass tacks.

G25tailgater
12-28-2005, 11:51 AM
In my opinion, it was a lack of mental toughness/consistency, which is unexcusable considering the veteran level of our players and coaches.

The meltdown against Philly at home, laying an egg in Buffalo after coming out completly unprepared, and losing both the Dallas and NY games knowing you realistically only needed 1 win.

This team has played very well with no pressure, but appears as if it was almost fearful of success. Some would call that choking.

Philly (could have been 3-1, instead 2-2)
Buffalo (could have been 6-3 with Houston on deck)
NY/Dallas (could have been 9-5 if we split)

Also, being severely outcoached in the 2nd half of our losses.

Chiefnj
12-28-2005, 12:06 PM
I was referring to the general trend of looking good on paper, but not getting it done in the crunch.
Remember the string of xx games last year where we were <7 down with the ball, and the clock ran out after another Green sack.
Not saying it's all him. Just that there is an institutional propensity to look great when the pressure is off, and puking on our shoes when it comes down to brass tacks.

Is getting sacked on a 3 man rush Trent's fault, or should he believe he has the necessary time behind the supposed best OL in the NFL?

Mr. Laz
12-28-2005, 12:17 PM
I was referring to the general trend of looking good on paper, but not getting it done in the crunch.
Remember the string of xx games last year where we were <7 down with the ball, and the clock ran out after another Green sack.
Not saying it's all him. Just that there is an institutional propensity to look great when the pressure is off, and puking on our shoes when it comes down to brass tacks.
oh ... ok


Trent Green is a solid Quarterback ... he's not great, not terrible.

give him the best Oline and best running game in league and he is good enough.


i've never really been of a mind that he was anything more. :shrug:

gcbroncos
12-28-2005, 12:19 PM
What one area of our team kept us out of the playoffs?



that's easy...your division...


if the chiefs were in any other division...you make the playoffs no problem

Count Zarth
12-28-2005, 12:23 PM
that's easy...your division...


if the chiefs were in any other division...you make the playoffs no problem

The Chiefs were 4-2 against the AFC West.

I think you mean "conference."

gcbroncos
12-28-2005, 03:25 PM
The Chiefs were 4-2 against the AFC West.

I think you mean "conference."



no i mean division....

i didn't say you couldn't play with afc west teams...

i'm saying that if you played in the afc east....or even north

that you would've hammered those teams and you'd have an even better record and more reasonable schedule...

i meant division dude...giving you a compliment...

if you were in the other conference....you'd be freakin 14-2 with home field

BigMeatballDave
12-28-2005, 05:09 PM
if you were in the other conference....you'd be freakin 14-2 with home fieldI don't know about that. We were 1-3
vs. the NFC east this year...

gcbroncos
12-28-2005, 05:58 PM
I don't know about that. We were 1-3
vs. the NFC east this year...



screw it...

maybe you're right

Calcountry
12-28-2005, 06:22 PM
screw it...

maybe you're rightROFL at least you manned up on that one.

Otter
12-28-2005, 06:26 PM
Add me to the coaching vote.